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Re: [hr100] Shoes for Hardrock?

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  • Tom Stockton
    As far a Five Fingers in snow goes, I tried to do ski hill repeats in a pair this winter. Traction was pretty good up the slopes but my toes froze pretty
    Message 1 of 6 , May 2 2:55 PM
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      As far a Five Fingers in snow goes, I tried to do ski hill repeats in
      a pair this winter. Traction was pretty good up the slopes but my toes
      froze pretty quickly. Very painful, wouldn't recommend it.

      Tom

      On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this year. There is
      > more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water crossings. I would
      > like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on steep snow and mud.
      >
      > My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some 7 oz. Nike Zoom
      > racing flats without socks. These were well worn so that the bottoms
      > were smooth. This was not too much of a problem because it was a dry
      > year. However, I did not finish the course. For those familiar with
      > the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I heard the town
      > clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.
      >
      > In 2007 there was average snow and we ran counterclockwise. I wore
      > Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are heavier (about 10 oz
      > dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of monster spikes on the
      > bottom. However they don't drain well so they are heavy when wet.
      > Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making it to the corner
      > of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton library) before time was
      > up.
      >
      > I think there is room for improvement. We will be going clockwise this
      > year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room" under a canopy
      > with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge in. Usually it is
      > about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to make it at least
      > that far.
      >
      > Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers are about the same
      > weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So instead I ordered
      > some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them yesterday and did a 3
      > mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass. They felt good,
      > although my calves got a better than usual workout. It isn't exactly
      > like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it is the best I can
      > do.
      >
      > Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a thin mesh upper
      > that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to fit the foot,
      > including a pocket for each toe so they can move independently. It
      > varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8 inch or 3 mm) are
      > around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the flexibility. You can
      > roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your pockets.
      >
      > In my test run, I really get a good feel for the ground. There is an
      > obvious difference between smooth and rough pavement. So I know I will
      > feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive tread so I wondered
      > about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone said you could dig
      > your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem. Also, I believe some
      > rock climbers use them. The traction comes from fitting your foot to
      > the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled shoe.
      >
      > I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham Park) before I
      > decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in these shoes? I know
      > Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly different model of
      > FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were sloping granite slabs
      > with gravel on top.
      >
      > -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
      >



      --
      Tom Stockton
      (505) 660-8591
    • Matt Mahoney
      Yeah, maybe I should get the Flows. They are designed for colder weather. ... -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@yahoo.com
      Message 2 of 6 , May 2 2:58 PM
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        Yeah, maybe I should get the Flows. They are designed for colder
        weather.

        --- Tom Stockton <tbstockton@...> wrote:

        > As far a Five Fingers in snow goes, I tried to do ski hill repeats in
        > a pair this winter. Traction was pretty good up the slopes but my
        > toes
        > froze pretty quickly. Very painful, wouldn't recommend it.
        >
        > Tom
        >
        > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this year. There is
        > > more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water crossings. I
        > would
        > > like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on steep snow and
        > mud.
        > >
        > > My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some 7 oz. Nike
        > Zoom
        > > racing flats without socks. These were well worn so that the
        > bottoms
        > > were smooth. This was not too much of a problem because it was a
        > dry
        > > year. However, I did not finish the course. For those familiar
        > with
        > > the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I heard the town
        > > clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.
        > >
        > > In 2007 there was average snow and we ran counterclockwise. I wore
        > > Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are heavier (about 10
        > oz
        > > dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of monster spikes on
        > the
        > > bottom. However they don't drain well so they are heavy when wet.
        > > Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making it to the
        > corner
        > > of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton library) before time
        > was
        > > up.
        > >
        > > I think there is room for improvement. We will be going clockwise
        > this
        > > year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room" under a canopy
        > > with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge in. Usually
        > it is
        > > about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to make it at
        > least
        > > that far.
        > >
        > > Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers are about the
        > same
        > > weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So instead I
        > ordered
        > > some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them yesterday and did a
        > 3
        > > mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass. They felt good,
        > > although my calves got a better than usual workout. It isn't
        > exactly
        > > like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it is the best I
        > can
        > > do.
        > >
        > > Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a thin mesh
        > upper
        > > that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to fit the foot,
        > > including a pocket for each toe so they can move independently. It
        > > varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8 inch or 3 mm)
        > are
        > > around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the flexibility. You
        > can
        > > roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your pockets.
        > >
        > > In my test run, I really get a good feel for the ground. There is
        > an
        > > obvious difference between smooth and rough pavement. So I know I
        > will
        > > feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive tread so I
        > wondered
        > > about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone said you could dig
        > > your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem. Also, I believe
        > some
        > > rock climbers use them. The traction comes from fitting your foot
        > to
        > > the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled shoe.
        > >
        > > I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham Park) before I
        > > decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in these shoes? I
        > know
        > > Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly different model of
        > > FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were sloping granite
        > slabs
        > > with gravel on top.
        > >
        > > -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Tom Stockton
        > (505) 660-8591
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
        >
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > hr100-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >


        -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
      • Twiggsc@aol.com
        Matt, I can t believe the weight you would spare would be worth the risk involved in wearing these shoes on HR100 terrain. There are easier ways to go faster,
        Message 3 of 6 , May 2 3:06 PM
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          Matt, I can't believe the weight you would spare would be worth the risk involved in wearing these shoes on HR100 terrain. There are easier ways to go faster, like letting someone else take all the pictures. I think the 5 fingers are best left on the beach. I'll be running in Montrails again this year, hoping for 4 straight finishes.

          Chris
          Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...>

          Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 14:42:25
          To:Ultralist <ultra@...>, Hardrock100 <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [hr100] Shoes for Hardrock?


          I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this year. There is
          more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water crossings. I would
          like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on steep snow and mud.

          My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some 7 oz. Nike Zoom
          racing flats without socks. These were well worn so that the bottoms
          were smooth. This was not too much of a problem because it was a dry
          year. However, I did not finish the course. For those familiar with
          the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I heard the town
          clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.

          In 2007 there was average snow and we ran counterclockwise. I wore
          Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are heavier (about 10 oz
          dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of monster spikes on the
          bottom. However they don't drain well so they are heavy when wet.
          Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making it to the corner
          of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton library) before time was
          up.

          I think there is room for improvement. We will be going clockwise this
          year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room" under a canopy
          with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge in. Usually it is
          about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to make it at least
          that far.

          Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers are about the same
          weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So instead I ordered
          some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them yesterday and did a 3
          mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass. They felt good,
          although my calves got a better than usual workout. It isn't exactly
          like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it is the best I can
          do.

          Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a thin mesh upper
          that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to fit the foot,
          including a pocket for each toe so they can move independently. It
          varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8 inch or 3 mm) are
          around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the flexibility. You can
          roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your pockets.

          In my test run, I really get a good feel for the ground. There is an
          obvious difference between smooth and rough pavement. So I know I will
          feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive tread so I wondered
          about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone said you could dig
          your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem. Also, I believe some
          rock climbers use them. The traction comes from fitting your foot to
          the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled shoe.

          I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham Park) before I
          decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in these shoes? I know
          Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly different model of
          FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were sloping granite slabs
          with gravel on top.

          -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@yahoo. <mailto:matmahoney%40yahoo.com> com
        • Matt Mahoney
          ... Well, I haven t decided yet. I normally run barefoot on the beach. ... -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@yahoo.com
          Message 4 of 6 , May 2 3:47 PM
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            --- Twiggsc@... wrote:

            > Matt, I can't believe the weight you would spare would be worth the
            > risk involved in wearing these shoes on HR100 terrain. There are
            > easier ways to go faster, like letting someone else take all the
            > pictures. I think the 5 fingers are best left on the beach. I'll be
            > running in Montrails again this year, hoping for 4 straight finishes.

            Well, I haven't decided yet. I normally run barefoot on the beach.

            >
            >
            > Chris
            > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...>
            >
            > Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 14:42:25
            > To:Ultralist <ultra@...>, Hardrock100
            > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
            > Subject: [hr100] Shoes for Hardrock?
            >
            >
            > I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this year. There is
            > more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water crossings. I
            > would
            > like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on steep snow and mud.
            >
            > My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some 7 oz. Nike Zoom
            > racing flats without socks. These were well worn so that the bottoms
            > were smooth. This was not too much of a problem because it was a dry
            > year. However, I did not finish the course. For those familiar with
            > the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I heard the town
            > clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.
            >
            > In 2007 there was average snow and we ran counterclockwise. I wore
            > Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are heavier (about 10
            > oz
            > dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of monster spikes on
            > the
            > bottom. However they don't drain well so they are heavy when wet.
            > Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making it to the
            > corner
            > of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton library) before time
            > was
            > up.
            >
            > I think there is room for improvement. We will be going clockwise
            > this
            > year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room" under a canopy
            > with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge in. Usually it
            > is
            > about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to make it at least
            > that far.
            >
            > Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers are about the
            > same
            > weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So instead I ordered
            > some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them yesterday and did a 3
            > mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass. They felt good,
            > although my calves got a better than usual workout. It isn't exactly
            > like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it is the best I can
            > do.
            >
            > Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a thin mesh upper
            > that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to fit the foot,
            > including a pocket for each toe so they can move independently. It
            > varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8 inch or 3 mm) are
            > around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the flexibility. You
            > can
            > roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your pockets.
            >
            > In my test run, I really get a good feel for the ground. There is an
            > obvious difference between smooth and rough pavement. So I know I
            > will
            > feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive tread so I
            > wondered
            > about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone said you could dig
            > your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem. Also, I believe some
            > rock climbers use them. The traction comes from fitting your foot to
            > the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled shoe.
            >
            > I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham Park) before I
            > decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in these shoes? I
            > know
            > Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly different model of
            > FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were sloping granite
            > slabs
            > with gravel on top.
            >
            > -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@yahoo. <mailto:matmahoney%40yahoo.com>
            > com
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
            >
            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            > hr100-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >


            -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
          • james varner
            hi matt i second twiggy s response that there s probably better ways to shave ounces but i know you like those super light shoes and you gotta go with what you
            Message 5 of 6 , May 2 3:50 PM
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              hi matt

              i second twiggy's response that there's probably
              better ways to shave ounces but i know you like those
              super light shoes and you gotta go with what you like
              so....

              if you're willing to go a little heavier i love my
              invo8 305's i've never had a better shoe but for you
              it's pretty heavy at 10.76 oz. invo8 has a bunch of
              other shoes even lighter all the way down to 8+ oz and
              they all have plenty of traction for hardrock.

              and i know 2 young trail speedsters who love their new
              balance 790's whiich i think weigh 7 oz. so if those
              shoes are lite enough of skaggs and krupicka they
              could be lite enough for you.

              have fun and see ya in s-town!

              james
              --- Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...> wrote:

              > I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this
              > year. There is
              > more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water
              > crossings. I would
              > like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on
              > steep snow and mud.
              >
              > My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some
              > 7 oz. Nike Zoom
              > racing flats without socks. These were well worn so
              > that the bottoms
              > were smooth. This was not too much of a problem
              > because it was a dry
              > year. However, I did not finish the course. For
              > those familiar with
              > the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I
              > heard the town
              > clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.
              >
              > In 2007 there was average snow and we ran
              > counterclockwise. I wore
              > Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are
              > heavier (about 10 oz
              > dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of
              > monster spikes on the
              > bottom. However they don't drain well so they are
              > heavy when wet.
              > Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making
              > it to the corner
              > of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton
              > library) before time was
              > up.
              >
              > I think there is room for improvement. We will be
              > going clockwise this
              > year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room"
              > under a canopy
              > with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge
              > in. Usually it is
              > about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to
              > make it at least
              > that far.
              >
              > Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers
              > are about the same
              > weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So
              > instead I ordered
              > some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them
              > yesterday and did a 3
              > mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass.
              > They felt good,
              > although my calves got a better than usual workout.
              > It isn't exactly
              > like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it
              > is the best I can
              > do.
              >
              > Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a
              > thin mesh upper
              > that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to
              > fit the foot,
              > including a pocket for each toe so they can move
              > independently. It
              > varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8
              > inch or 3 mm) are
              > around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the
              > flexibility. You can
              > roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your
              > pockets.
              >
              > In my test run, I really get a good feel for the
              > ground. There is an
              > obvious difference between smooth and rough
              > pavement. So I know I will
              > feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive
              > tread so I wondered
              > about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone
              > said you could dig
              > your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem.
              > Also, I believe some
              > rock climbers use them. The traction comes from
              > fitting your foot to
              > the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled
              > shoe.
              >
              > I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham
              > Park) before I
              > decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in
              > these shoes? I know
              > Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly
              > different model of
              > FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were
              > sloping granite slabs
              > with gravel on top.
              >
              >
              > -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
              >



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