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Shoes for Hardrock?

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  • Matt Mahoney
    I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this year. There is more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water crossings. I would like a shoe that
    Message 1 of 6 , May 2 2:42 PM
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      I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this year. There is
      more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water crossings. I would
      like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on steep snow and mud.

      My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some 7 oz. Nike Zoom
      racing flats without socks. These were well worn so that the bottoms
      were smooth. This was not too much of a problem because it was a dry
      year. However, I did not finish the course. For those familiar with
      the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I heard the town
      clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.

      In 2007 there was average snow and we ran counterclockwise. I wore
      Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are heavier (about 10 oz
      dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of monster spikes on the
      bottom. However they don't drain well so they are heavy when wet.
      Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making it to the corner
      of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton library) before time was
      up.

      I think there is room for improvement. We will be going clockwise this
      year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room" under a canopy
      with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge in. Usually it is
      about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to make it at least
      that far.

      Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers are about the same
      weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So instead I ordered
      some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them yesterday and did a 3
      mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass. They felt good,
      although my calves got a better than usual workout. It isn't exactly
      like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it is the best I can
      do.

      Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a thin mesh upper
      that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to fit the foot,
      including a pocket for each toe so they can move independently. It
      varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8 inch or 3 mm) are
      around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the flexibility. You can
      roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your pockets.

      In my test run, I really get a good feel for the ground. There is an
      obvious difference between smooth and rough pavement. So I know I will
      feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive tread so I wondered
      about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone said you could dig
      your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem. Also, I believe some
      rock climbers use them. The traction comes from fitting your foot to
      the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled shoe.

      I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham Park) before I
      decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in these shoes? I know
      Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly different model of
      FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were sloping granite slabs
      with gravel on top.


      -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
    • Tom Stockton
      As far a Five Fingers in snow goes, I tried to do ski hill repeats in a pair this winter. Traction was pretty good up the slopes but my toes froze pretty
      Message 2 of 6 , May 2 2:55 PM
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        As far a Five Fingers in snow goes, I tried to do ski hill repeats in
        a pair this winter. Traction was pretty good up the slopes but my toes
        froze pretty quickly. Very painful, wouldn't recommend it.

        Tom

        On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this year. There is
        > more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water crossings. I would
        > like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on steep snow and mud.
        >
        > My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some 7 oz. Nike Zoom
        > racing flats without socks. These were well worn so that the bottoms
        > were smooth. This was not too much of a problem because it was a dry
        > year. However, I did not finish the course. For those familiar with
        > the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I heard the town
        > clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.
        >
        > In 2007 there was average snow and we ran counterclockwise. I wore
        > Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are heavier (about 10 oz
        > dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of monster spikes on the
        > bottom. However they don't drain well so they are heavy when wet.
        > Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making it to the corner
        > of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton library) before time was
        > up.
        >
        > I think there is room for improvement. We will be going clockwise this
        > year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room" under a canopy
        > with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge in. Usually it is
        > about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to make it at least
        > that far.
        >
        > Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers are about the same
        > weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So instead I ordered
        > some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them yesterday and did a 3
        > mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass. They felt good,
        > although my calves got a better than usual workout. It isn't exactly
        > like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it is the best I can
        > do.
        >
        > Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a thin mesh upper
        > that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to fit the foot,
        > including a pocket for each toe so they can move independently. It
        > varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8 inch or 3 mm) are
        > around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the flexibility. You can
        > roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your pockets.
        >
        > In my test run, I really get a good feel for the ground. There is an
        > obvious difference between smooth and rough pavement. So I know I will
        > feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive tread so I wondered
        > about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone said you could dig
        > your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem. Also, I believe some
        > rock climbers use them. The traction comes from fitting your foot to
        > the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled shoe.
        >
        > I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham Park) before I
        > decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in these shoes? I know
        > Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly different model of
        > FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were sloping granite slabs
        > with gravel on top.
        >
        > -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
        >



        --
        Tom Stockton
        (505) 660-8591
      • Matt Mahoney
        Yeah, maybe I should get the Flows. They are designed for colder weather. ... -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@yahoo.com
        Message 3 of 6 , May 2 2:58 PM
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          Yeah, maybe I should get the Flows. They are designed for colder
          weather.

          --- Tom Stockton <tbstockton@...> wrote:

          > As far a Five Fingers in snow goes, I tried to do ski hill repeats in
          > a pair this winter. Traction was pretty good up the slopes but my
          > toes
          > froze pretty quickly. Very painful, wouldn't recommend it.
          >
          > Tom
          >
          > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this year. There is
          > > more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water crossings. I
          > would
          > > like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on steep snow and
          > mud.
          > >
          > > My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some 7 oz. Nike
          > Zoom
          > > racing flats without socks. These were well worn so that the
          > bottoms
          > > were smooth. This was not too much of a problem because it was a
          > dry
          > > year. However, I did not finish the course. For those familiar
          > with
          > > the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I heard the town
          > > clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.
          > >
          > > In 2007 there was average snow and we ran counterclockwise. I wore
          > > Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are heavier (about 10
          > oz
          > > dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of monster spikes on
          > the
          > > bottom. However they don't drain well so they are heavy when wet.
          > > Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making it to the
          > corner
          > > of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton library) before time
          > was
          > > up.
          > >
          > > I think there is room for improvement. We will be going clockwise
          > this
          > > year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room" under a canopy
          > > with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge in. Usually
          > it is
          > > about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to make it at
          > least
          > > that far.
          > >
          > > Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers are about the
          > same
          > > weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So instead I
          > ordered
          > > some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them yesterday and did a
          > 3
          > > mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass. They felt good,
          > > although my calves got a better than usual workout. It isn't
          > exactly
          > > like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it is the best I
          > can
          > > do.
          > >
          > > Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a thin mesh
          > upper
          > > that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to fit the foot,
          > > including a pocket for each toe so they can move independently. It
          > > varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8 inch or 3 mm)
          > are
          > > around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the flexibility. You
          > can
          > > roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your pockets.
          > >
          > > In my test run, I really get a good feel for the ground. There is
          > an
          > > obvious difference between smooth and rough pavement. So I know I
          > will
          > > feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive tread so I
          > wondered
          > > about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone said you could dig
          > > your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem. Also, I believe
          > some
          > > rock climbers use them. The traction comes from fitting your foot
          > to
          > > the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled shoe.
          > >
          > > I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham Park) before I
          > > decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in these shoes? I
          > know
          > > Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly different model of
          > > FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were sloping granite
          > slabs
          > > with gravel on top.
          > >
          > > -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Tom Stockton
          > (505) 660-8591
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
          >
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          > hr100-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
        • Twiggsc@aol.com
          Matt, I can t believe the weight you would spare would be worth the risk involved in wearing these shoes on HR100 terrain. There are easier ways to go faster,
          Message 4 of 6 , May 2 3:06 PM
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            Matt, I can't believe the weight you would spare would be worth the risk involved in wearing these shoes on HR100 terrain. There are easier ways to go faster, like letting someone else take all the pictures. I think the 5 fingers are best left on the beach. I'll be running in Montrails again this year, hoping for 4 straight finishes.

            Chris
            Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...>

            Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 14:42:25
            To:Ultralist <ultra@...>, Hardrock100 <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: [hr100] Shoes for Hardrock?


            I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this year. There is
            more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water crossings. I would
            like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on steep snow and mud.

            My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some 7 oz. Nike Zoom
            racing flats without socks. These were well worn so that the bottoms
            were smooth. This was not too much of a problem because it was a dry
            year. However, I did not finish the course. For those familiar with
            the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I heard the town
            clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.

            In 2007 there was average snow and we ran counterclockwise. I wore
            Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are heavier (about 10 oz
            dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of monster spikes on the
            bottom. However they don't drain well so they are heavy when wet.
            Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making it to the corner
            of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton library) before time was
            up.

            I think there is room for improvement. We will be going clockwise this
            year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room" under a canopy
            with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge in. Usually it is
            about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to make it at least
            that far.

            Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers are about the same
            weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So instead I ordered
            some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them yesterday and did a 3
            mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass. They felt good,
            although my calves got a better than usual workout. It isn't exactly
            like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it is the best I can
            do.

            Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a thin mesh upper
            that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to fit the foot,
            including a pocket for each toe so they can move independently. It
            varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8 inch or 3 mm) are
            around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the flexibility. You can
            roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your pockets.

            In my test run, I really get a good feel for the ground. There is an
            obvious difference between smooth and rough pavement. So I know I will
            feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive tread so I wondered
            about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone said you could dig
            your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem. Also, I believe some
            rock climbers use them. The traction comes from fitting your foot to
            the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled shoe.

            I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham Park) before I
            decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in these shoes? I know
            Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly different model of
            FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were sloping granite slabs
            with gravel on top.

            -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@yahoo. <mailto:matmahoney%40yahoo.com> com
          • Matt Mahoney
            ... Well, I haven t decided yet. I normally run barefoot on the beach. ... -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@yahoo.com
            Message 5 of 6 , May 2 3:47 PM
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              --- Twiggsc@... wrote:

              > Matt, I can't believe the weight you would spare would be worth the
              > risk involved in wearing these shoes on HR100 terrain. There are
              > easier ways to go faster, like letting someone else take all the
              > pictures. I think the 5 fingers are best left on the beach. I'll be
              > running in Montrails again this year, hoping for 4 straight finishes.

              Well, I haven't decided yet. I normally run barefoot on the beach.

              >
              >
              > Chris
              > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...>
              >
              > Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 14:42:25
              > To:Ultralist <ultra@...>, Hardrock100
              > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: [hr100] Shoes for Hardrock?
              >
              >
              > I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this year. There is
              > more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water crossings. I
              > would
              > like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on steep snow and mud.
              >
              > My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some 7 oz. Nike Zoom
              > racing flats without socks. These were well worn so that the bottoms
              > were smooth. This was not too much of a problem because it was a dry
              > year. However, I did not finish the course. For those familiar with
              > the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I heard the town
              > clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.
              >
              > In 2007 there was average snow and we ran counterclockwise. I wore
              > Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are heavier (about 10
              > oz
              > dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of monster spikes on
              > the
              > bottom. However they don't drain well so they are heavy when wet.
              > Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making it to the
              > corner
              > of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton library) before time
              > was
              > up.
              >
              > I think there is room for improvement. We will be going clockwise
              > this
              > year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room" under a canopy
              > with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge in. Usually it
              > is
              > about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to make it at least
              > that far.
              >
              > Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers are about the
              > same
              > weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So instead I ordered
              > some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them yesterday and did a 3
              > mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass. They felt good,
              > although my calves got a better than usual workout. It isn't exactly
              > like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it is the best I can
              > do.
              >
              > Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a thin mesh upper
              > that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to fit the foot,
              > including a pocket for each toe so they can move independently. It
              > varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8 inch or 3 mm) are
              > around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the flexibility. You
              > can
              > roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your pockets.
              >
              > In my test run, I really get a good feel for the ground. There is an
              > obvious difference between smooth and rough pavement. So I know I
              > will
              > feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive tread so I
              > wondered
              > about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone said you could dig
              > your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem. Also, I believe some
              > rock climbers use them. The traction comes from fitting your foot to
              > the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled shoe.
              >
              > I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham Park) before I
              > decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in these shoes? I
              > know
              > Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly different model of
              > FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were sloping granite
              > slabs
              > with gravel on top.
              >
              > -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@yahoo. <mailto:matmahoney%40yahoo.com>
              > com
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
              >
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              > hr100-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >


              -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
            • james varner
              hi matt i second twiggy s response that there s probably better ways to shave ounces but i know you like those super light shoes and you gotta go with what you
              Message 6 of 6 , May 2 3:50 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                hi matt

                i second twiggy's response that there's probably
                better ways to shave ounces but i know you like those
                super light shoes and you gotta go with what you like
                so....

                if you're willing to go a little heavier i love my
                invo8 305's i've never had a better shoe but for you
                it's pretty heavy at 10.76 oz. invo8 has a bunch of
                other shoes even lighter all the way down to 8+ oz and
                they all have plenty of traction for hardrock.

                and i know 2 young trail speedsters who love their new
                balance 790's whiich i think weigh 7 oz. so if those
                shoes are lite enough of skaggs and krupicka they
                could be lite enough for you.

                have fun and see ya in s-town!

                james
                --- Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...> wrote:

                > I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this
                > year. There is
                > more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water
                > crossings. I would
                > like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on
                > steep snow and mud.
                >
                > My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some
                > 7 oz. Nike Zoom
                > racing flats without socks. These were well worn so
                > that the bottoms
                > were smooth. This was not too much of a problem
                > because it was a dry
                > year. However, I did not finish the course. For
                > those familiar with
                > the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I
                > heard the town
                > clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.
                >
                > In 2007 there was average snow and we ran
                > counterclockwise. I wore
                > Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are
                > heavier (about 10 oz
                > dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of
                > monster spikes on the
                > bottom. However they don't drain well so they are
                > heavy when wet.
                > Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making
                > it to the corner
                > of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton
                > library) before time was
                > up.
                >
                > I think there is room for improvement. We will be
                > going clockwise this
                > year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room"
                > under a canopy
                > with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge
                > in. Usually it is
                > about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to
                > make it at least
                > that far.
                >
                > Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers
                > are about the same
                > weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So
                > instead I ordered
                > some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them
                > yesterday and did a 3
                > mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass.
                > They felt good,
                > although my calves got a better than usual workout.
                > It isn't exactly
                > like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it
                > is the best I can
                > do.
                >
                > Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a
                > thin mesh upper
                > that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to
                > fit the foot,
                > including a pocket for each toe so they can move
                > independently. It
                > varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8
                > inch or 3 mm) are
                > around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the
                > flexibility. You can
                > roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your
                > pockets.
                >
                > In my test run, I really get a good feel for the
                > ground. There is an
                > obvious difference between smooth and rough
                > pavement. So I know I will
                > feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive
                > tread so I wondered
                > about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone
                > said you could dig
                > your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem.
                > Also, I believe some
                > rock climbers use them. The traction comes from
                > fitting your foot to
                > the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled
                > shoe.
                >
                > I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham
                > Park) before I
                > decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in
                > these shoes? I know
                > Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly
                > different model of
                > FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were
                > sloping granite slabs
                > with gravel on top.
                >
                >
                > -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
                >



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