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Re: 8566B amplitude weirdness

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  • hpnpilot219
    Yahoo trouble posting again, it is bouncing ALL my replies, having to log in to Yahoo directly to post. My settings look fine (Why does Yahoo suck so bad?)
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 3, 2012
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      Yahoo trouble posting again, it is bouncing ALL my replies, having to log in to Yahoo directly to post. My settings look fine (Why does Yahoo suck so bad?)

      Anyhow:

      Definitely. Next week when I get time to work on it some more I will make sure to get all the observations and measurements you need before buttoning it up. I'll start with what you mentioned. I have a validated 8643A, power meter which agrees, adapters for internal RF connectors and calibrated 34401A DMM so should be able to get any reference data from the unit you might need. The only thing I don't have are PCB extender cards, and that slows me down a bit.


      --- In hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:
      >
      > On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 4:29 AM, Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > The adjustment which is out of range on my A4A3 board is the one which
      > > goes to
      > > the temperature compensation circuit, so rather than simply changing the
      > > series
      > > resistor to the adj pot as the manual suggests, I will first investigate
      > > why
      > > this went out of adjustment range. I want to find the root cause... most
      > > of the
      > > other adjustments I have checked in the instrument are either dead on or
      > > within
      > > a ever so slight tweak of perfect that I am very suspicious of one which
      > > has
      > > gone out of range.
      > >
      > > The temperature compensation circuit is simply a two diode temperature
      > > sensor
      > > and op-amp amplifier. Two diodes were how the old Heathkit digital
      > > indoor-outdoor (and many others) thermometer worked, very simple. So that
      > > will
      > > be my next investigation.
      > >
      > > If the circuit is fine and just shifted due to component aging, fine, I'll
      > > follow the manual's recommendations and deal with it, but I definitely
      > > want to
      > > preserve the functionality of the circuit so if there's a problem I will
      > > fix
      > > that first so I retain that important design feature.
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > I'll be interested to hear what you find. Could you let us know the part
      > numbers of the log amp boards and the values of the resistors that feed the
      > log diodes? As I said before, I have a pair that clearly do not belong
      > together and I haven't fixed the log fidelity yet, never mind temp
      > compensation.
      >
      > I had to change several fixed resistors to make this particular display
      > unit 'work'. It even oscillated on 100kHz RBW when I got it! It seems
      > someone collected boards from dead units until they found a set that sort
      > of worked...
      >
      > I've since got a second display unit, but it has a dim CRT. Some day, I'll
      > swap the log boards over and see what happens.
      >
      > Orin.
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Bob W5UQ
      Thank you Brad and Dan. That is great info. Bob Hardie W5UQ ... ... ... and the beat goes onnnnnn! Nah...na-nah....na-naaaaaah...... Just my two....uh...ONE
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 3, 2012
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        Thank you Brad and Dan.
        That is great info.
        Bob Hardie
        W5UQ

        ... ... ... and the beat goes onnnnnn!
        Nah...na-nah....na-naaaaaah......

        Just my "two....uh...ONE Bobs worth".




        On 2/3/2012 11:29 AM, Brad Allen wrote:
        >
        > This is a normal everyday issue with telephones in the business world. The
        > membrane has black carbon dots glued to it. There is a coating that can be
        > placed back on the dots and it is available from SANDMAN.COM. I
        > believe this
        > is a coating in a small bottle with a brush. It is used to refurbish
        > Executone TT-pads as well as many others. Brad
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
        > [mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dan Rae
        > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 12:18
        > To: hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP8711, 8712, etc. Rubber push
        > buttons
        >
        > On 2/3/2012 8:50 AM, Bob W5UQ wrote:
        > > A few months ago someone told me that there was a "kit" one could buy to
        > > refurbish these rubber membrane switches. I should have kept the email
        > > in a safe place as I've lost it.
        > >
        > > Seems like it was at Newark-in-one, but not sure what the name of the
        > > kit was.
        > >
        > > I have cleaned them pretty good with isopropyl 91% alcohol, and when I
        > > come back a month later, I have to clean them again.
        > >
        > > Thanks to Jim Flanagan for his help in this area. He told me how to
        > > clean them with alcohol.
        > >
        > > Anyone know the kit? Or rubber replacements?
        > > Bob H
        > >
        > >
        > Bob, you can buy a two part mixture for re-furbishing these switches. I
        > have done it on a Fluke signal generator and several TV type remotes
        > with success. Never needed to for -hp- gear though, I didn't know they
        > used this type of switch. I think this was what I used:
        >
        > http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/ITW-CHEMTRONICS-CW2605-/20-3890
        >
        > It's expensive, and once mixed you have to use it, but it does work.
        > Cleaning will not work if the original conductive film has gone...
        >
        > Dan
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • W2HX
        Dan, thanks for sharing that. I may need some too (first I ll just clean the button, if that doesn t work, this will be next). I also saw this product on the
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 4, 2012
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          Dan, thanks for sharing that. I may need some too (first I'll just clean the
          button, if that doesn't work, this will be next). I also saw this product
          on the same website and wondered if you (or anyone else0 might have compared
          it to the two-part product you recommended (or other two part products)



          thanks



          ---

          73 Eugene W2HX



          From: hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Rae
          Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 12:18 PM
          To: hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP8711, 8712, etc. Rubber push
          buttons





          On 2/3/2012 8:50 AM, Bob W5UQ wrote:
          > A few months ago someone told me that there was a "kit" one could buy to
          > refurbish these rubber membrane switches. I should have kept the email
          > in a safe place as I've lost it.
          >
          > Seems like it was at Newark-in-one, but not sure what the name of the
          > kit was.
          >
          > I have cleaned them pretty good with isopropyl 91% alcohol, and when I
          > come back a month later, I have to clean them again.
          >
          > Thanks to Jim Flanagan for his help in this area. He told me how to
          > clean them with alcohol.
          >
          > Anyone know the kit? Or rubber replacements?
          > Bob H
          >
          >
          Bob, you can buy a two part mixture for re-furbishing these switches. I
          have done it on a Fluke signal generator and several TV type remotes
          with success. Never needed to for -hp- gear though, I didn't know they
          used this type of switch. I think this was what I used:

          http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/ITW-CHEMTRONICS-CW2605-/20-3890

          It's expensive, and once mixed you have to use it, but it does work.
          Cleaning will not work if the original conductive film has gone...

          Dan





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • W2HX
          Sugar! I bet it would help if I actually remembered to cut and paste the link L Caig Caikot Conductive Coating http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/200-315
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 4, 2012
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            Sugar! I bet it would help if I actually remembered to cut and paste the
            link L



            Caig Caikot Conductive Coating



            http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/200-315



            ---

            73 Eugene W2HX



            From: hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of W2HX
            Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:41 PM
            To: hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP8711, 8712, etc. Rubber push
            buttons





            Dan, thanks for sharing that. I may need some too (first I'll just clean the
            button, if that doesn't work, this will be next). I also saw this product
            on the same website and wondered if you (or anyone else0 might have compared
            it to the two-part product you recommended (or other two part products)

            thanks

            ---

            73 Eugene W2HX

            From: hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
            [mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Dan Rae
            Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 12:18 PM
            To: hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP8711, 8712, etc. Rubber push
            buttons

            On 2/3/2012 8:50 AM, Bob W5UQ wrote:
            > A few months ago someone told me that there was a "kit" one could buy to
            > refurbish these rubber membrane switches. I should have kept the email
            > in a safe place as I've lost it.
            >
            > Seems like it was at Newark-in-one, but not sure what the name of the
            > kit was.
            >
            > I have cleaned them pretty good with isopropyl 91% alcohol, and when I
            > come back a month later, I have to clean them again.
            >
            > Thanks to Jim Flanagan for his help in this area. He told me how to
            > clean them with alcohol.
            >
            > Anyone know the kit? Or rubber replacements?
            > Bob H
            >
            >
            Bob, you can buy a two part mixture for re-furbishing these switches. I
            have done it on a Fluke signal generator and several TV type remotes
            with success. Never needed to for -hp- gear though, I didn't know they
            used this type of switch. I think this was what I used:

            http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/ITW-CHEMTRONICS-CW2605-/20-3890

            It's expensive, and once mixed you have to use it, but it does work.
            Cleaning will not work if the original conductive film has gone...

            Dan

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dan Rae
            ... Eugene, Speaking generally, cleaning will not work because it is not dirt that is stopping the buttons working but the original conductive coating having
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 4, 2012
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              On 2/4/2012 6:40 PM, W2HX wrote:
              > Dan, thanks for sharing that. I may need some too (first I'll just clean the
              > button, if that doesn't work, this will be next). I also saw this product
              > on the same website and wondered if you (or anyone else0 might have compared
              > it to the two-part product you recommended (or other two part products)
              >
              >
              Eugene,

              Speaking generally, cleaning will not work because it is not dirt that
              is stopping the buttons working but the original conductive coating
              having been worn off.

              I have only used the two part stuff and it did work well for my Fluke
              signal generator, as well as the TV remotes. I have no experience of
              the Caig Caikot Conductive Coating that you mentioned, but I'm sure it
              works but perhaps it is not quite as durable as the two part stuff.

              But, as I said, I don't have a whole lot of experience here :^)

              Dan
            • Jeff Furman
              I haven t tried this on HP instruments, but I have performed a successful button transplant in desperation on a calculator: you locate a button donor with the
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 5, 2012
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                I haven't tried this on HP instruments, but I have performed a
                successful button transplant in desperation on a calculator:

                you locate a button donor with the same shaped buttons;
                cut out the donor button from the support pad including a generous
                surrounding area;
                carefully remove the bad button you're replacing including some support
                margin;
                trim the donor button's support margin to just fit in the hole made by
                removing the bad button, be sure the donor button has the proper
                position;
                use appropriate cement at the transplant seam;
                good luck;

                I said this was a desperate attempt to restore functionality-- YMMV, etc.


                Jeff AD6MX.
              • BrianS
                There is an eBay seller in the USA that sells a kit at a easonable cost. I haven t tried it but read somewhere about it a while ago. They sell a Battery
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 10, 2012
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                  There is an eBay seller in the USA that sells a kit at a easonable cost. I haven't tried it but read somewhere about it a while ago.

                  They sell a Battery Corrosion Remover, Keypad Fix, SMD Glue, & Wire Glue - a Conductive Glue for using instead of soldering for items too heat sensitive or incompatible with soldering.

                  The products are far cheaper than many alternatives I've seen & they have reasonable international postal charges.

                  The eBay seller is hovorka21

                  From their eBay blurb:

                  KEYPAD FIX - Permanently Repairs All Rubber Keypads

                  A Non-Toxic Green Alternative to throwing out worn out keypads

                  Keypad Fix restores conductivity to the carbon on the keys and the copper PC board pads that make up the rubber-coated switches on remotes, security keypads and game controllers.

                  - Remotes for TVs and DVD Players
                  - Garage Door Opener Keypads
                  - Home Access Security System Keypads
                  - Game Controllers
                  - Parking Access Keypads

                  These are tough, flexible wear-resistant repairs.

                  This jar contains enough to coat over 200 button contacts.

                  Brush it onto carbon contact with a cotton swab. Dries tack-free in 2 hours. Repaired keypads can be returned to service after drying overnight.

                  Buy It Now US $4.95 + Shipping

                  A current eBay Item number: 290658760252


                  http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KEYPAD-FIX-Permanently-Repairs-All-Rubber-Keypads-/290658760252?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ac9cb63c


                  CORROSION GONE! Battery Spring and Contact Cleaner
                  Swab It On. Scrub It Clean. Cleans Corroded Electrical Contacts.

                  CORROSION GONE! cleans leakage from all types of batteries including alkaline, nicad, nickel metal hydride and low cost zinc carbon cells.

                  Great for cleaning up corrosion in music equipment battery compartments and on their springs -- effects boxes, tuners, headphone amps, etc.

                  Cleans corrosion on computer keyboards from leaking memory backup batteries.
                  Revitalizes circuit boards that have been damaged by leaking electrolytic capacitors.
                  Rejuvenates battery contacts on all battery-powered equipment including toys, remote controls, radios, TVs, cell phones, cameras, and more.


                  --- In hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com, Bob W5UQ <w5uq@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > A few months ago someone told me that there was a "kit" one could buy to
                  > refurbish these rubber membrane switches. I should have kept the email
                  > in a safe place as I've lost it.
                  >
                  > Seems like it was at Newark-in-one, but not sure what the name of the
                  > kit was.
                  >
                  > I have cleaned them pretty good with isopropyl 91% alcohol, and when I
                  > come back a month later, I have to clean them again.
                  >
                  > Thanks to Jim Flanagan for his help in this area. He told me how to
                  > clean them with alcohol.
                  >
                  > Anyone know the kit? Or rubber replacements?
                  > Bob H
                  >
                • Steve .
                  The description sounds like some stuff that I mix up for the very same purpose. Repair the conductive rubber on membrane switches. Basically all i do is mix
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 10, 2012
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                    The description sounds like some stuff that I mix up for the very same
                    purpose. Repair the conductive rubber on membrane switches. Basically all i
                    do is mix graphite powder with either "liquid tape" or "plastic dip"
                    depending on how flexible and what size the pad is. This usually works fine
                    for modern designs but the older gear that used stiff pull resistors /
                    near totem pole configuration, -- those require mixing copper or silver
                    powder.

                    I've made my own touch buttons on a highly modified laptop. The buttons are
                    for the mouse so they get a great deal of use. I tend to get 3-4 months of
                    use out of them before i need to repaint. Mind you, this is heavy use.
                    Probably a few thousand clicks a day.


                    Steve


                    On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:23 PM, BrianS <brians@...> wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > There is an eBay seller in the USA that sells a kit at a easonable cost. I
                    > haven't tried it but read somewhere about it a while ago.
                    >
                    > They sell a Battery Corrosion Remover, Keypad Fix, SMD Glue, & Wire Glue -
                    > a Conductive Glue for using instead of soldering for items too heat
                    > sensitive or incompatible with soldering.
                    >
                    > The products are far cheaper than many alternatives I've seen & they have
                    > reasonable international postal charges.
                    >
                    > The eBay seller is hovorka21
                    >
                    > From their eBay blurb:
                    >
                    > KEYPAD FIX - Permanently Repairs All Rubber Keypads
                    >
                    > A Non-Toxic Green Alternative to throwing out worn out keypads
                    >
                    > Keypad Fix restores conductivity to the carbon on the keys and the copper
                    > PC board pads that make up the rubber-coated switches on remotes, security
                    > keypads and game controllers.
                    >
                    > - Remotes for TVs and DVD Players
                    > - Garage Door Opener Keypads
                    > - Home Access Security System Keypads
                    > - Game Controllers
                    > - Parking Access Keypads
                    >
                    > These are tough, flexible wear-resistant repairs.
                    >
                    > This jar contains enough to coat over 200 button contacts.
                    >
                    > Brush it onto carbon contact with a cotton swab. Dries tack-free in 2
                    > hours. Repaired keypads can be returned to service after drying overnight.
                    >
                    > Buy It Now US $4.95 + Shipping
                    >
                    > A current eBay Item number: 290658760252
                    >
                    >
                    > http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KEYPAD-FIX-Permanently-Repairs-All-Rubber-Keypads-/290658760252?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ac9cb63c
                    >
                    > CORROSION GONE! Battery Spring and Contact Cleaner
                    > Swab It On. Scrub It Clean. Cleans Corroded Electrical Contacts.
                    >
                    > CORROSION GONE! cleans leakage from all types of batteries including
                    > alkaline, nicad, nickel metal hydride and low cost zinc carbon cells.
                    >
                    > Great for cleaning up corrosion in music equipment battery compartments
                    > and on their springs -- effects boxes, tuners, headphone amps, etc.
                    >
                    > Cleans corrosion on computer keyboards from leaking memory backup
                    > batteries.
                    > Revitalizes circuit boards that have been damaged by leaking electrolytic
                    > capacitors.
                    > Rejuvenates battery contacts on all battery-powered equipment including
                    > toys, remote controls, radios, TVs, cell phones, cameras, and more.
                    >
                    > --- In hp_agilent_equipment@yahoogroups.com, Bob W5UQ <w5uq@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > A few months ago someone told me that there was a "kit" one could buy to
                    > > refurbish these rubber membrane switches. I should have kept the email
                    > > in a safe place as I've lost it.
                    > >
                    > > Seems like it was at Newark-in-one, but not sure what the name of the
                    > > kit was.
                    > >
                    > > I have cleaned them pretty good with isopropyl 91% alcohol, and when I
                    > > come back a month later, I have to clean them again.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks to Jim Flanagan for his help in this area. He told me how to
                    > > clean them with alcohol.
                    > >
                    > > Anyone know the kit? Or rubber replacements?
                    > > Bob H
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >


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