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Re: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate

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  • cwertman@aol.com
    As many of you are asking for statistics, here is at least one set of statistics for the state of Maryland. While as had been pointed out by several others,
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 3, 2012
      As many of you are asking for statistics, here is at least one set of statistics for the state of Maryland.  While as had been pointed out by several others, we don't have accurate numbers on how many HC graduates go on to college, one they get there I will assume their graduation numbers are similar to these general numbers although I would hope they are somewhat higher than the average numbers.

      http://www.completecollege.org/docs/Maryland.pdf 

      Good luck working through this.

      Chris

      -----Original Message-----
      From: robert.rhodeshc <robert.rhodeshc@...>
      To: howardpubliced <howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sat, Mar 3, 2012 7:05 pm
      Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate

       
      Lady, you can suspect all you want about who I am. I am curious, which Board member am I? If I am a HCPSS employee, who am I? I hope I have a nice title.

      Who I am is actually not important except to say that I am a very interested party, and I hate to see folks like you, Jack, and AD devote your lives to tearing down the HCPSS. Watching you at BOE meetings is beyond sad as you slouch behind the dias looking completely disinterested. When you do speak, you show just how little you know about the the system, its employees, and most importantly it's students. You ask staff the questions that indicate a severe lack of knowledge, and, in the two years since you started, you've clearly taken little to no interest to learn. What "big ideas" have you offered as a Board member to make all the things you hate better?

      What is clear is the low regard you show for the hard working curriculum and instruction staff. The recent torture you and AD put staff through over the middle school reading changes is a perfect example of both your lack of knowledge about reading and your complete lack of respect for those who have dedicated their lives to the subject and who have earned higher ed degrees to prove it.

      I hope you realize how much you are seen as a fool and a joke by most of the folks who work at the district level? This is directly the result of how poorly you've treated them. Have you ever taken the time to attend meetings to see how hard they work? Have you ever attended a professional development meeting where staff work to constantly improve the teaching and learning? I've asked around (and no, not as a Board member or as an employee, but as a very actively involved citizen) and your face is never seen anywhere other than up on your throne.

      You've really ticked me off, lady, by making this personal. I hope you decide not to run for re-election in 2014, but if you do, you will definitely know who I am, because I will work non-stop and spend whatever $$$ I have to see that someone who actually wants the HCPSS to succeed gets elected.

      You continue to worry about who I am and waste your time doing so.

      "Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well."

      We'll ask you as we've repeatedly asked Jack...where do you get your information?

      --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Dear Robert et al,
      >
      > Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well. He is also correct that we can't offer a definitive rebuttal because HCPSS does NOT track this information. However, national and regional information is clear, and in fact, Jack's original assertions are probably generous.
      >
      > Since I have long suspected you are an HCPSS employee or even a Board of Education member (at the very least a self professed close observer of all things HCPSS)- it is extremely telling that you not only did not know this information, and were so certain it was not true you made such a big deal about it. Every education professional, board member, legislator and parent ought to be aware of these numbers and what they mean --- why didn't you?
      >
      > According to the rankings that put HoCo at the #3 wealthiest county in the country, it was reported that 58.3% of hoco adults hold bachelor degrees or higher. This is a self selected group - and does not take into consideration whether those adults are originally from hoco (which of course they are not - which is significant because the adults who move here are a more self selecting group than the totality of the children who are raised and educated k-12 here), does not take into account people who moved here from other countries who hold advanced degrees in large percentages in many subgroups, and makes no mention of how long it took them to earn those degrees.
      >
      > Cindy Vaillancourt
      > responding to questions sent to me by hocopubliced members
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
      > From: pamythompson@...
      > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:41:23 +0000
      > Subject: [howardpubliced] Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
      >
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      > Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
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      > http://colleges.collegetoolkit.com/colleges/browse/graduation_rates/maryland/24.aspx
      >
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      > Look at the lower end to gain some perspective
      >
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      > Jack
      >

    • Corey Andrews
      Here s the general problem with all of these statistics. They don t take into account the students that go on to some type of vocational school, join the
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 3, 2012
        Here's the general problem with all of these statistics. They don't take into account the students that go on to some type of vocational school, join the military, start their own business, take a year off before college, or go immediately into the professional workforce. We need to look at this from a more broad perspective. We should not just measure how many students graduate from college, but how many students have future success. I come from a family that has, in our entire family history, never had someone graduate from a college or university. Yet, they've all been successful and prosperous in their own business or career. College graduation isn't the only measure of success.

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Corey Andrews
        2012 Candidate for the Howard County Board of Education
        410-456-6815
        cacoreya@...


        --- On Sun, 3/4/12, cwertman@... <cwertman@...> wrote:

        From: cwertman@... <cwertman@...>
        Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
        To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 12:40 AM

         

        As many of you are asking for statistics, here is at least one set of statistics for the state of Maryland.  While as had been pointed out by several others, we don't have accurate numbers on how many HC graduates go on to college, one they get there I will assume their graduation numbers are similar to these general numbers although I would hope they are somewhat higher than the average numbers.

        http://www.completecollege.org/docs/Maryland.pdf 

        Good luck working through this.


        Chris

        -----Original Message-----
        From: robert.rhodeshc <robert.rhodeshc@...>
        To: howardpubliced <howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sat, Mar 3, 2012 7:05 pm
        Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate

         
        Lady, you can suspect all you want about who I am. I am curious, which Board member am I? If I am a HCPSS employee, who am I? I hope I have a nice title.

        Who I am is actually not important except to say that I am a very interested party, and I hate to see folks like you, Jack, and AD devote your lives to tearing down the HCPSS. Watching you at BOE meetings is beyond sad as you slouch behind the dias looking completely disinterested. When you do speak, you show just how little you know about the the system, its employees, and most importantly it's students. You ask staff the questions that indicate a severe lack of knowledge, and, in the two years since you started, you've clearly taken little to no interest to learn. What "big ideas" have you offered as a Board member to make all the things you hate better?

        What is clear is the low regard you show for the hard working curriculum and instruction staff. The recent torture you and AD put staff through over the middle school reading changes is a perfect example of both your lack of knowledge about reading and your complete lack of respect for those who have dedicated their lives to the subject and who have earned higher ed degrees to prove it.

        I hope you realize how much you are seen as a fool and a joke by most of the folks who work at the district level? This is directly the result of how poorly you've treated them. Have you ever taken the time to attend meetings to see how hard they work? Have you ever attended a professional development meeting where staff work to constantly improve the teaching and learning? I've asked around (and no, not as a Board member or as an employee, but as a very actively involved citizen) and your face is never seen anywhere other than up on your throne.

        You've really ticked me off, lady, by making this personal. I hope you decide not to run for re-election in 2014, but if you do, you will definitely know who I am, because I will work non-stop and spend whatever $$$ I have to see that someone who actually wants the HCPSS to succeed gets elected.

        You continue to worry about who I am and waste your time doing so.

        "Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well."

        We'll ask you as we've repeatedly asked Jack...where do you get your information?

        --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Dear Robert et al,
        >
        > Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well. He is also correct that we can't offer a definitive rebuttal because HCPSS does NOT track this information. However, national and regional information is clear, and in fact, Jack's original assertions are probably generous.
        >
        > Since I have long suspected you are an HCPSS employee or even a Board of Education member (at the very least a self professed close observer of all things HCPSS)- it is extremely telling that you not only did not know this information, and were so certain it was not true you made such a big deal about it. Every education professional, board member, legislator and parent ought to be aware of these numbers and what they mean --- why didn't you?
        >
        > According to the rankings that put HoCo at the #3 wealthiest county in the country, it was reported that 58.3% of hoco adults hold bachelor degrees or higher. This is a self selected group - and does not take into consideration whether those adults are originally from hoco (which of course they are not - which is significant because the adults who move here are a more self selecting group than the totality of the children who are raised and educated k-12 here), does not take into account people who moved here from other countries who hold advanced degrees in large percentages in many subgroups, and makes no mention of how long it took them to earn those degrees.
        >
        > Cindy Vaillancourt
        > responding to questions sent to me by hocopubliced members
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
        > From: pamythompson@...
        > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:41:23 +0000
        > Subject: [howardpubliced] Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
        >
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        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
        >
        >
        >
        > http://colleges.collegetoolkit.com/colleges/browse/graduation_rates/maryland/24.aspx
        >
        >
        >
        > Look at the lower end to gain some perspective
        >
        >
        >
        > Jack
        >

      • Debra
        I agree with you Corey. The statistics also do not include students with disabilities who need the extra time to complete their coursework...or the students
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 3, 2012
          I agree with you Corey. The statistics also do not include students with disabilities who need the extra time to complete their coursework...or the students who are injured (car accidents, work injuries, etc) while in college and need extra time to complete their studies.

          I do wonder, however, HOW to measure "future success." This is a nice concept, but whose definition of "success" will we use? Is the person who worked their way up from busboy to manager of a Wendy's going to be considered as successful as the person who graduated from medical school and opened a private practice? Or will the person who graduated from high school at age 21 and entered an enclave in a community rehabilitation program/sheltered workshop be considered successful? Or would the high school valedictorian who is a stay-at-home Mom/Dad be considered successful?

          Just something to think about.
          Debra

          --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, Corey Andrews <cacoreya@...> wrote:
          >
          > Here's the general problem with all of these statistics. They don't take into account the students that go on to some type of vocational school, join the military, start their own business, take a year off before college, or go immediately into the professional workforce. We need to look at this from a more broad perspective. We should not just measure how many students graduate from college, but how many students have future success. I come from a family that has, in our entire family history, never had someone graduate from a college or university. Yet, they've all been successful and prosperous in their own business or career. College graduation isn't the only measure of success.
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > Corey Andrews 2012 Candidate for the Howard County Board of Education410-456-6815cacoreya@...
          >
          > --- On Sun, 3/4/12, cwertman@... <cwertman@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: cwertman@... <cwertman@...>
          > Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
          > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 12:40 AM
          >
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          > As many of you are asking for statistics, here is at least one set of statistics for the state of Maryland.  While as had been pointed out by several others, we don't have accurate numbers on how many HC graduates go on to college, one they get there I will assume their graduation numbers are similar to these general numbers although I would hope they are somewhat higher than the average numbers.
          >
          >
          >
          > http://www.completecollege.org/docs/Maryland.pdf%c3%82%c2%a0
          >
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          > Good luck working through this.
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          > Chris
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          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          >
          >
          > From: robert.rhodeshc <robert.rhodeshc@...>
          >
          >
          > To: howardpubliced <howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com>
          >
          >
          > Sent: Sat, Mar 3, 2012 7:05 pm
          >
          >
          > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
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          > Lady, you can suspect all you want about who I am. I am curious, which Board member am I? If I am a HCPSS employee, who am I? I hope I have a nice title.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Who I am is actually not important except to say that I am a very interested party, and I hate to see folks like you, Jack, and AD devote your lives to tearing down the HCPSS. Watching you at BOE meetings is beyond sad as you slouch behind the dias looking completely disinterested. When you do speak, you show just how little you know about the the system, its employees, and most importantly it's students. You ask staff the questions that indicate a severe lack of knowledge, and, in the two years since you started, you've clearly taken little to no interest to learn. What "big ideas" have you offered as a Board member to make all the things you hate better?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > What is clear is the low regard you show for the hard working curriculum and instruction staff. The recent torture you and AD put staff through over the middle school reading changes is a perfect example of both your lack of knowledge about reading and your complete lack of respect for those who have dedicated their lives to the subject and who have earned higher ed degrees to prove it.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I hope you realize how much you are seen as a fool and a joke by most of the folks who work at the district level? This is directly the result of how poorly you've treated them. Have you ever taken the time to attend meetings to see how hard they work? Have you ever attended a professional development meeting where staff work to constantly improve the teaching and learning? I've asked around (and no, not as a Board member or as an employee, but as a very actively involved citizen) and your face is never seen anywhere other than up on your throne.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > You've really ticked me off, lady, by making this personal. I hope you decide not to run for re-election in 2014, but if you do, you will definitely know who I am, because I will work non-stop and spend whatever $$$ I have to see that someone who actually wants the HCPSS to succeed gets elected.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > You continue to worry about who I am and waste your time doing so.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > "Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well."
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > We'll ask you as we've repeatedly asked Jack...where do you get your information?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > > Dear Robert et al,
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > > Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well. He is also correct that we can't offer a definitive rebuttal because HCPSS does NOT track this information. However, national and regional information is clear, and in fact, Jack's original assertions are probably generous.
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > > Since I have long suspected you are an HCPSS employee or even a Board of Education member (at the very least a self professed close observer of all things HCPSS)- it is extremely telling that you not only did not know this information, and were so certain it was not true you made such a big deal about it. Every education professional, board member, legislator and parent ought to be aware of these numbers and what they mean --- why didn't you?
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > > According to the rankings that put HoCo at the #3 wealthiest county in the country, it was reported that 58.3% of hoco adults hold bachelor degrees or higher. This is a self selected group - and does not take into consideration whether those adults are originally from hoco (which of course they are not - which is significant because the adults who move here are a more self selecting group than the totality of the children who are raised and educated k-12 here), does not take into account people who moved here from other countries who hold advanced degrees in large percentages in many subgroups, and makes no mention of how long it took them to earn those degrees.
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          >
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          > > Cindy Vaillancourt
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          >
          > > responding to questions sent to me by hocopubliced members
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          > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > > From: pamythompson@
          >
          >
          >
          > > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:41:23 +0000
          >
          >
          >
          > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
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          > > Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
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          > > http://colleges.collegetoolkit.com/colleges/browse/graduation_rates/maryland/24.aspx
          >
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          > > Look at the lower end to gain some perspective
          >
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          > > Jack
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        • cwertman@aol.com
          Robert I think you need to reassess your facts regarding the middle school issue. It was not just Allen, Cindy, Brian, and Tomi that had serious questions
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 3, 2012
            Robert

            I think you need to reassess your "facts" regarding the middle school issue.  It was not just Allen, Cindy, Brian, and Tomi that had serious questions about the program.  Talk to the dozens of teachers who testified against it as well as the President of the HCEA, Paul Lemle.  You may believe it was "torture", I think there are a large number of people who are part of HCPSS (teachers) who would seriously disagree with you.

            On another of your points, while I would agree that there are many well intentioned and hard working people on central office staff that does not necessarily mean they are effective or pursuing the appropriate agenda every time.  (Just because they work in central office does not mean they are always right)  That in my mind, is exactly what Board members should be doing is challenging their theories and programs.  In fact, I have testified many times before the Board that all of these programs proposed by Central Office need specific metrics and clearly defined objectives.  They should then be evaluated against those criteria on a regular (annually) basic thereafter.

            Regarding your comment on participation in the electoral process, I hope you don't wait until Cindy comes up for election.  I hope you participate in the upcoming primary as well as the general election.  We need a more participatory electorate.

            Chris

            -----Original Message-----
            From: robert.rhodeshc <robert.rhodeshc@...>
            To: howardpubliced <howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sat, Mar 3, 2012 7:05 pm
            Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate

             
            Lady, you can suspect all you want about who I am. I am curious, which Board member am I? If I am a HCPSS employee, who am I? I hope I have a nice title.

            Who I am is actually not important except to say that I am a very interested party, and I hate to see folks like you, Jack, and AD devote your lives to tearing down the HCPSS. Watching you at BOE meetings is beyond sad as you slouch behind the dias looking completely disinterested. When you do speak, you show just how little you know about the the system, its employees, and most importantly it's students. You ask staff the questions that indicate a severe lack of knowledge, and, in the two years since you started, you've clearly taken little to no interest to learn. What "big ideas" have you offered as a Board member to make all the things you hate better?

            What is clear is the low regard you show for the hard working curriculum and instruction staff. The recent torture you and AD put staff through over the middle school reading changes is a perfect example of both your lack of knowledge about reading and your complete lack of respect for those who have dedicated their lives to the subject and who have earned higher ed degrees to prove it.

            I hope you realize how much you are seen as a fool and a joke by most of the folks who work at the district level? This is directly the result of how poorly you've treated them. Have you ever taken the time to attend meetings to see how hard they work? Have you ever attended a professional development meeting where staff work to constantly improve the teaching and learning? I've asked around (and no, not as a Board member or as an employee, but as a very actively involved citizen) and your face is never seen anywhere other than up on your throne.

            You've really ticked me off, lady, by making this personal. I hope you decide not to run for re-election in 2014, but if you do, you will definitely know who I am, because I will work non-stop and spend whatever $$$ I have to see that someone who actually wants the HCPSS to succeed gets elected.

            You continue to worry about who I am and waste your time doing so.

            "Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well."

            We'll ask you as we've repeatedly asked Jack...where do you get your information?

            --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Dear Robert et al,
            >
            > Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well. He is also correct that we can't offer a definitive rebuttal because HCPSS does NOT track this information. However, national and regional information is clear, and in fact, Jack's original assertions are probably generous.
            >
            > Since I have long suspected you are an HCPSS employee or even a Board of Education member (at the very least a self professed close observer of all things HCPSS)- it is extremely telling that you not only did not know this information, and were so certain it was not true you made such a big deal about it. Every education professional, board member, legislator and parent ought to be aware of these numbers and what they mean --- why didn't you?
            >
            > According to the rankings that put HoCo at the #3 wealthiest county in the country, it was reported that 58.3% of hoco adults hold bachelor degrees or higher. This is a self selected group - and does not take into consideration whether those adults are originally from hoco (which of course they are not - which is significant because the adults who move here are a more self selecting group than the totality of the children who are raised and educated k-12 here), does not take into account people who moved here from other countries who hold advanced degrees in large percentages in many subgroups, and makes no mention of how long it took them to earn those degrees.
            >
            > Cindy Vaillancourt
            > responding to questions sent to me by hocopubliced members
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
            > From: pamythompson@...
            > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:41:23 +0000
            > Subject: [howardpubliced] Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
            >
            >
            >
            > http://colleges.collegetoolkit.com/colleges/browse/graduation_rates/maryland/24.aspx
            >
            >
            >
            > Look at the lower end to gain some perspective
            >
            >
            >
            > Jack
            >

          • pamythompson
            I owe an apology to Mrs. Vaillancourt, Mr. Dyer and the rest of the members here for what has amounted to the debriding of a very nasty wound. Debra, Corey.
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 3, 2012
              I owe an apology to Mrs. Vaillancourt, Mr. Dyer and the rest of the members here for what has amounted to the debriding of a very nasty wound.

              Debra, Corey. You are very correct in questioning the direction of the hcpss , how we educate our children and how we measure success. These are discussions which need to be held with parents openly so we can truly educate all of our children as college is not the holy grail of education and our relentless focus to this end deprives many of our children of both a quality education and sense of worth. I am sorry this conversation degenerated to the point such obvious concerns are being left unadressed.

              Jack

              --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Diller" <thdiller@...> wrote:
              >
              > Robert,
              >
              > Why are you even wasting your time with this woman (or this listserv for that matter)? Cindy is a waste of a vote and a waste of a board seat. I doubt she'll even consider running for the board again. It's amazing that she even got more than one vote for vice chair from her peers! We all knew Dyer would vote for her, but what was that student member thinking? Who knows, maybe he knows her children or he's a friend of her family or she gives him rides home from board meetings. In any case, she shouldn't be anywhere near the chair or vice chair or a vote in our children's future!
              >
              >
              > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "robert.rhodeshc" <robert.rhodeshc@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Lady, you can suspect all you want about who I am. I am curious, which Board member am I? If I am a HCPSS employee, who am I? I hope I have a nice title.
              > >
              > > Who I am is actually not important except to say that I am a very interested party, and I hate to see folks like you, Jack, and AD devote your lives to tearing down the HCPSS. Watching you at BOE meetings is beyond sad as you slouch behind the dias looking completely disinterested. When you do speak, you show just how little you know about the the system, its employees, and most importantly it's students. You ask staff the questions that indicate a severe lack of knowledge, and, in the two years since you started, you've clearly taken little to no interest to learn. What "big ideas" have you offered as a Board member to make all the things you hate better?
              > >
              > > What is clear is the low regard you show for the hard working curriculum and instruction staff. The recent torture you and AD put staff through over the middle school reading changes is a perfect example of both your lack of knowledge about reading and your complete lack of respect for those who have dedicated their lives to the subject and who have earned higher ed degrees to prove it.
              > >
              > > I hope you realize how much you are seen as a fool and a joke by most of the folks who work at the district level? This is directly the result of how poorly you've treated them. Have you ever taken the time to attend meetings to see how hard they work? Have you ever attended a professional development meeting where staff work to constantly improve the teaching and learning? I've asked around (and no, not as a Board member or as an employee, but as a very actively involved citizen) and your face is never seen anywhere other than up on your throne.
              > >
              > > You've really ticked me off, lady, by making this personal. I hope you decide not to run for re-election in 2014, but if you do, you will definitely know who I am, because I will work non-stop and spend whatever $$$ I have to see that someone who actually wants the HCPSS to succeed gets elected.
              > >
              > > You continue to worry about who I am and waste your time doing so.
              > >
              > > "Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well."
              > >
              > > We'll ask you as we've repeatedly asked Jack...where do you get your information?
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Dear Robert et al,
              > > >
              > > > Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well. He is also correct that we can't offer a definitive rebuttal because HCPSS does NOT track this information. However, national and regional information is clear, and in fact, Jack's original assertions are probably generous.
              > > >
              > > > Since I have long suspected you are an HCPSS employee or even a Board of Education member (at the very least a self professed close observer of all things HCPSS)- it is extremely telling that you not only did not know this information, and were so certain it was not true you made such a big deal about it. Every education professional, board member, legislator and parent ought to be aware of these numbers and what they mean --- why didn't you?
              > > >
              > > > According to the rankings that put HoCo at the #3 wealthiest county in the country, it was reported that 58.3% of hoco adults hold bachelor degrees or higher. This is a self selected group - and does not take into consideration whether those adults are originally from hoco (which of course they are not - which is significant because the adults who move here are a more self selecting group than the totality of the children who are raised and educated k-12 here), does not take into account people who moved here from other countries who hold advanced degrees in large percentages in many subgroups, and makes no mention of how long it took them to earn those degrees.
              > > >
              > > > Cindy Vaillancourt
              > > > responding to questions sent to me by hocopubliced members
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
              > > > From: pamythompson@
              > > > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:41:23 +0000
              > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > http://colleges.collegetoolkit.com/colleges/browse/graduation_rates/maryland/24.aspx
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Look at the lower end to gain some perspective
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Jack
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Allen Dyer
              amen. allen ... From: Corey Andrews To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 7:50 PM Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 4, 2012
                
                amen.   allen
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 7:50 PM
                Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                 
                ..... College graduation isn't the only measure of success.

                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Corey Andrews
                2012 Candidate for the Howard County Board of Education
                410-456-6815
                cacoreya@...


              • cynthia vaillancourt
                Dear Messrs. Rhodes and Diller, If you have additional personal comments you would like to share with me, please do not hesitate to contact me on my personal
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 4, 2012
                  Dear Messrs. Rhodes and Diller,
                  If you have additional personal comments you would like to share with me, please do not hesitate to contact me on my personal email at cynthiavaillancourt@..., and spare the rest of this online community the vitriol that diminishes us all and the tone of public discourse in general.  I will not be responding to personal attacks on this forum.
                  Cindy Vaillancourt



                  To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                  From: thdiller@...
                  Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 03:13:09 +0000
                  Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate

                   
                  Robert,

                  Why are you even wasting your time with this woman (or this listserv for that matter)? Cindy is a waste of a vote and a waste of a board seat. I doubt she'll even consider running for the board again. It's amazing that she even got more than one vote for vice chair from her peers! We all knew Dyer would vote for her, but what was that student member thinking? Who knows, maybe he knows her children or he's a friend of her family or she gives him rides home from board meetings. In any case, she shouldn't be anywhere near the chair or vice chair or a vote in our children's future!

                  --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "robert.rhodeshc" <robert.rhodeshc@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Lady, you can suspect all you want about who I am. I am curious, which Board member am I? If I am a HCPSS employee, who am I? I hope I have a nice title.
                  >
                  > Who I am is actually not important except to say that I am a very interested party, and I hate to see folks like you, Jack, and AD devote your lives to tearing down the HCPSS. Watching you at BOE meetings is beyond sad as you slouch behind the dias looking completely disinterested. When you do speak, you show just how little you know about the the system, its employees, and most importantly it's students. You ask staff the questions that indicate a severe lack of knowledge, and, in the two years since you started, you've clearly taken little to no interest to learn. What "big ideas" have you offered as a Board member to make all the things you hate better?
                  >
                  > What is clear is the low regard you show for the hard working curriculum and instruction staff. The recent torture you and AD put staff through over the middle school reading changes is a perfect example of both your lack of knowledge about reading and your complete lack of respect for those who have dedicated their lives to the subject and who have earned higher ed degrees to prove it.
                  >
                  > I hope you realize how much you are seen as a fool and a joke by most of the folks who work at the district level? This is directly the result of how poorly you've treated them. Have you ever taken the time to attend meetings to see how hard they work? Have you ever attended a professional development meeting where staff work to constantly improve the teaching and learning? I've asked around (and no, not as a Board member or as an employee, but as a very actively involved citizen) and your face is never seen anywhere other than up on your throne.
                  >
                  > You've really ticked me off, lady, by making this personal. I hope you decide not to run for re-election in 2014, but if you do, you will definitely know who I am, because I will work non-stop and spend whatever $$$ I have to see that someone who actually wants the HCPSS to succeed gets elected.
                  >
                  > You continue to worry about who I am and waste your time doing so.
                  >
                  > "Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well."
                  >
                  > We'll ask you as we've repeatedly asked Jack...where do you get your information?
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Dear Robert et al,
                  > >
                  > > Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well. He is also correct that we can't offer a definitive rebuttal because HCPSS does NOT track this information. However, national and regional information is clear, and in fact, Jack's original assertions are probably generous.
                  > >
                  > > Since I have long suspected you are an HCPSS employee or even a Board of Education member (at the very least a self professed close observer of all things HCPSS)- it is extremely telling that you not only did not know this information, and were so certain it was not true you made such a big deal about it. Every education professional, board member, legislator and parent ought to be aware of these numbers and what they mean --- why didn't you?
                  > >
                  > > According to the rankings that put HoCo at the #3 wealthiest county in the country, it was reported that 58.3% of hoco adults hold bachelor degrees or higher. This is a self selected group - and does not take into consideration whether those adults are originally from hoco (which of course they are not - which is significant because the adults who move here are a more self selecting group than the totality of the children who are raised and educated k-12 here), does not take into account people who moved here from other countries who hold advanced degrees in large percentages in many subgroups, and makes no mention of how long it took them to earn those degrees.
                  > >
                  > > Cindy Vaillancourt
                  > > responding to questions sent to me by hocopubliced members
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                  > > From: pamythompson@
                  > > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:41:23 +0000
                  > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > http://colleges.collegetoolkit.com/colleges/browse/graduation_rates/maryland/24.aspx
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Look at the lower end to gain some perspective
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Jack
                  > >
                  >


                • Roger Lerner
                  To the Administrator, Things are plainly out of control; see latest posts. Sauron and Sarumam have apparently returned, again looking for the One Ring of
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 4, 2012
                    To the Administrator,
                    Things are plainly out  of control; see latest posts.
                    Sauron and Sarumam have apparently returned, again looking for the "One Ring" of ideological/pedagogical purity.
                    I formally request that you change the terms of this group to require full verification and disclosure of identity.  I believe Yahoo offers such options.
                    If you do not feel you have the right to do this unilaterally, I urge you to put it to a vote.
                    Roger Lerner

                    Sent from my iPad

                    On Mar 4, 2012, at 12:41 PM, "cynthia vaillancourt" <CynthiaVaillancourt@...> wrote:

                     

                    Dear Messrs. Rhodes and Diller,
                    If you have additional personal comments you would like to share with me, please do not hesitate to contact me on my personal email at cynthiavaillancourt@..., and spare the rest of this online community the vitriol that diminishes us all and the tone of public discourse in general.  I will not be responding to personal attacks on this forum.
                    Cindy Vaillancourt



                    To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                    From: thdiller@...
                    Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 03:13:09 +0000
                    Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate

                     
                    Robert,

                    Why are you even wasting your time with this woman (or this listserv for that matter)? Cindy is a waste of a vote and a waste of a board seat. I doubt she'll even consider running for the board again. It's amazing that she even got more than one vote for vice chair from her peers! We all knew Dyer would vote for her, but what was that student member thinking? Who knows, maybe he knows her children or he's a friend of her family or she gives him rides home from board meetings. In any case, she shouldn't be anywhere near the chair or vice chair or a vote in our children's future!

                    --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "robert.rhodeshc" <robert.rhodeshc@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Lady, you can suspect all you want about who I am. I am curious, which Board member am I? If I am a HCPSS employee, who am I? I hope I have a nice title.
                    >
                    > Who I am is actually not important except to say that I am a very interested party, and I hate to see folks like you, Jack, and AD devote your lives to tearing down the HCPSS. Watching you at BOE meetings is beyond sad as you slouch behind the dias looking completely disinterested. When you do speak, you show just how little you know about the the system, its employees, and most importantly it's students. You ask staff the questions that indicate a severe lack of knowledge, and, in the two years since you started, you've clearly taken little to no interest to learn. What "big ideas" have you offered as a Board member to make all the things you hate better?
                    >
                    > What is clear is the low regard you show for the hard working curriculum and instruction staff. The recent torture you and AD put staff through over the middle school reading changes is a perfect example of both your lack of knowledge about reading and your complete lack of respect for those who have dedicated their lives to the subject and who have earned higher ed degrees to prove it.
                    >
                    > I hope you realize how much you are seen as a fool and a joke by most of the folks who work at the district level? This is directly the result of how poorly you've treated them. Have you ever taken the time to attend meetings to see how hard they work? Have you ever attended a professional development meeting where staff work to constantly improve the teaching and learning? I've asked around (and no, not as a Board member or as an employee, but as a very actively involved citizen) and your face is never seen anywhere other than up on your throne.
                    >
                    > You've really ticked me off, lady, by making this personal. I hope you decide not to run for re-election in 2014, but if you do, you will definitely know who I am, because I will work non-stop and spend whatever $$$ I have to see that someone who actually wants the HCPSS to succeed gets elected.
                    >
                    > You continue to worry about who I am and waste your time doing so.
                    >
                    > "Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well."
                    >
                    > We'll ask you as we've repeatedly asked Jack...where do you get your information?
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Dear Robert et al,
                    > >
                    > > Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well. He is also correct that we can't offer a definitive rebuttal because HCPSS does NOT track this information. However, national and regional information is clear, and in fact, Jack's original assertions are probably generous.
                    > >
                    > > Since I have long suspected you are an HCPSS employee or even a Board of Education member (at the very least a self professed close observer of all things HCPSS)- it is extremely telling that you not only did not know this information, and were so certain it was not true you made such a big deal about it. Every education professional, board member, legislator and parent ought to be aware of these numbers and what they mean --- why didn't you?
                    > >
                    > > According to the rankings that put HoCo at the #3 wealthiest county in the country, it was reported that 58.3% of hoco adults hold bachelor degrees or higher. This is a self selected group - and does not take into consideration whether those adults are originally from hoco (which of course they are not - which is significant because the adults who move here are a more self selecting group than the totality of the children who are raised and educated k-12 here), does not take into account people who moved here from other countries who hold advanced degrees in large percentages in many subgroups, and makes no mention of how long it took them to earn those degrees.
                    > >
                    > > Cindy Vaillancourt
                    > > responding to questions sent to me by hocopubliced members
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                    > > From: pamythompson@
                    > > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:41:23 +0000
                    > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > http://colleges.collegetoolkit.com/colleges/browse/graduation_rates/maryland/24.aspx
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Look at the lower end to gain some perspective
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Jack
                    > >
                    >


                  • Corey Andrews
                    I agree with Roger. We, ask an online group, should put this to a vote. ... Corey Andrews 2012 Candidate for the Howard County Board of
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 4, 2012
                      I agree with Roger. We, ask an online group, should put this to a vote.

                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Corey Andrews
                      2012 Candidate for the Howard County Board of Education
                      410-456-6815
                      cacoreya@...


                      --- On Sun, 3/4/12, Roger Lerner <RLerner@...> wrote:

                      From: Roger Lerner <RLerner@...>
                      Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                      To: "howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com" <howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com>
                      Cc: "howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com" <howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 6:06 PM

                       

                      To the Administrator,
                      Things are plainly out  of control; see latest posts.
                      Sauron and Sarumam have apparently returned, again looking for the "One Ring" of ideological/pedagogical purity.
                      I formally request that you change the terms of this group to require full verification and disclosure of identity.  I believe Yahoo offers such options.
                      If you do not feel you have the right to do this unilaterally, I urge you to put it to a vote.
                      Roger Lerner

                      Sent from my iPad

                      On Mar 4, 2012, at 12:41 PM, "cynthia vaillancourt" <CynthiaVaillancourt@...> wrote:

                       

                      Dear Messrs. Rhodes and Diller,
                      If you have additional personal comments you would like to share with me, please do not hesitate to contact me on my personal email at cynthiavaillancourt@..., and spare the rest of this online community the vitriol that diminishes us all and the tone of public discourse in general.  I will not be responding to personal attacks on this forum.
                      Cindy Vaillancourt



                      To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                      From: thdiller@...
                      Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 03:13:09 +0000
                      Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate

                       
                      Robert,

                      Why are you even wasting your time with this woman (or this listserv for that matter)? Cindy is a waste of a vote and a waste of a board seat. I doubt she'll even consider running for the board again. It's amazing that she even got more than one vote for vice chair from her peers! We all knew Dyer would vote for her, but what was that student member thinking? Who knows, maybe he knows her children or he's a friend of her family or she gives him rides home from board meetings. In any case, she shouldn't be anywhere near the chair or vice chair or a vote in our children's future!

                      --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "robert.rhodeshc" <robert.rhodeshc@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Lady, you can suspect all you want about who I am. I am curious, which Board member am I? If I am a HCPSS employee, who am I? I hope I have a nice title.
                      >
                      > Who I am is actually not important except to say that I am a very interested party, and I hate to see folks like you, Jack, and AD devote your lives to tearing down the HCPSS. Watching you at BOE meetings is beyond sad as you slouch behind the dias looking completely disinterested. When you do speak, you show just how little you know about the the system, its employees, and most importantly it's students. You ask staff the questions that indicate a severe lack of knowledge, and, in the two years since you started, you've clearly taken little to no interest to learn. What "big ideas" have you offered as a Board member to make all the things you hate better?
                      >
                      > What is clear is the low regard you show for the hard working curriculum and instruction staff. The recent torture you and AD put staff through over the middle school reading changes is a perfect example of both your lack of knowledge about reading and your complete lack of respect for those who have dedicated their lives to the subject and who have earned higher ed degrees to prove it.
                      >
                      > I hope you realize how much you are seen as a fool and a joke by most of the folks who work at the district level? This is directly the result of how poorly you've treated them. Have you ever taken the time to attend meetings to see how hard they work? Have you ever attended a professional development meeting where staff work to constantly improve the teaching and learning? I've asked around (and no, not as a Board member or as an employee, but as a very actively involved citizen) and your face is never seen anywhere other than up on your throne.
                      >
                      > You've really ticked me off, lady, by making this personal. I hope you decide not to run for re-election in 2014, but if you do, you will definitely know who I am, because I will work non-stop and spend whatever $$$ I have to see that someone who actually wants the HCPSS to succeed gets elected.
                      >
                      > You continue to worry about who I am and waste your time doing so.
                      >
                      > "Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well."
                      >
                      > We'll ask you as we've repeatedly asked Jack...where do you get your information?
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Dear Robert et al,
                      > >
                      > > Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well. He is also correct that we can't offer a definitive rebuttal because HCPSS does NOT track this information. However, national and regional information is clear, and in fact, Jack's original assertions are probably generous.
                      > >
                      > > Since I have long suspected you are an HCPSS employee or even a Board of Education member (at the very least a self professed close observer of all things HCPSS)- it is extremely telling that you not only did not know this information, and were so certain it was not true you made such a big deal about it. Every education professional, board member, legislator and parent ought to be aware of these numbers and what they mean --- why didn't you?
                      > >
                      > > According to the rankings that put HoCo at the #3 wealthiest county in the country, it was reported that 58.3% of hoco adults hold bachelor degrees or higher. This is a self selected group - and does not take into consideration whether those adults are originally from hoco (which of course they are not - which is significant because the adults who move here are a more self selecting group than the totality of the children who are raised and educated k-12 here), does not take into account people who moved here from other countries who hold advanced degrees in large percentages in many subgroups, and makes no mention of how long it took them to earn those degrees.
                      > >
                      > > Cindy Vaillancourt
                      > > responding to questions sent to me by hocopubliced members
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                      > > From: pamythompson@
                      > > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:41:23 +0000
                      > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > http://colleges.collegetoolkit.com/colleges/browse/graduation_rates/maryland/24.aspx
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Look at the lower end to gain some perspective
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Jack
                      > >
                      >


                    • Corey Andrews
                      I agree with Roger. We, as an online group, should put this to a vote. ... Corey Andrews 2012 Candidate for the Howard County Board of
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 4, 2012
                        I agree with Roger. We, as an online group, should put this to a vote.

                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        Corey Andrews
                        2012 Candidate for the Howard County Board of Education
                        410-456-6815
                        cacoreya@...


                        --- On Sun, 3/4/12, Roger Lerner <RLerner@...> wrote:

                        From: Roger Lerner <RLerner@...>
                        Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                        To: "howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com" <howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com>
                        Cc: "howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com" <howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com>
                        Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 6:06 PM

                         

                        To the Administrator,
                        Things are plainly out  of control; see latest posts.
                        Sauron and Sarumam have apparently returned, again looking for the "One Ring" of ideological/pedagogical purity.
                        I formally request that you change the terms of this group to require full verification and disclosure of identity.  I believe Yahoo offers such options.
                        If you do not feel you have the right to do this unilaterally, I urge you to put it to a vote.
                        Roger Lerner

                        Sent from my iPad

                        On Mar 4, 2012, at 12:41 PM, "cynthia vaillancourt" <CynthiaVaillancourt@...> wrote:

                         

                        Dear Messrs. Rhodes and Diller,
                        If you have additional personal comments you would like to share with me, please do not hesitate to contact me on my personal email at cynthiavaillancourt@..., and spare the rest of this online community the vitriol that diminishes us all and the tone of public discourse in general.  I will not be responding to personal attacks on this forum.
                        Cindy Vaillancourt



                        To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                        From: thdiller@...
                        Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 03:13:09 +0000
                        Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate

                         
                        Robert,

                        Why are you even wasting your time with this woman (or this listserv for that matter)? Cindy is a waste of a vote and a waste of a board seat. I doubt she'll even consider running for the board again. It's amazing that she even got more than one vote for vice chair from her peers! We all knew Dyer would vote for her, but what was that student member thinking? Who knows, maybe he knows her children or he's a friend of her family or she gives him rides home from board meetings. In any case, she shouldn't be anywhere near the chair or vice chair or a vote in our children's future!

                        --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "robert.rhodeshc" <robert.rhodeshc@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Lady, you can suspect all you want about who I am. I am curious, which Board member am I? If I am a HCPSS employee, who am I? I hope I have a nice title.
                        >
                        > Who I am is actually not important except to say that I am a very interested party, and I hate to see folks like you, Jack, and AD devote your lives to tearing down the HCPSS. Watching you at BOE meetings is beyond sad as you slouch behind the dias looking completely disinterested. When you do speak, you show just how little you know about the the system, its employees, and most importantly it's students. You ask staff the questions that indicate a severe lack of knowledge, and, in the two years since you started, you've clearly taken little to no interest to learn. What "big ideas" have you offered as a Board member to make all the things you hate better?
                        >
                        > What is clear is the low regard you show for the hard working curriculum and instruction staff. The recent torture you and AD put staff through over the middle school reading changes is a perfect example of both your lack of knowledge about reading and your complete lack of respect for those who have dedicated their lives to the subject and who have earned higher ed degrees to prove it.
                        >
                        > I hope you realize how much you are seen as a fool and a joke by most of the folks who work at the district level? This is directly the result of how poorly you've treated them. Have you ever taken the time to attend meetings to see how hard they work? Have you ever attended a professional development meeting where staff work to constantly improve the teaching and learning? I've asked around (and no, not as a Board member or as an employee, but as a very actively involved citizen) and your face is never seen anywhere other than up on your throne.
                        >
                        > You've really ticked me off, lady, by making this personal. I hope you decide not to run for re-election in 2014, but if you do, you will definitely know who I am, because I will work non-stop and spend whatever $$$ I have to see that someone who actually wants the HCPSS to succeed gets elected.
                        >
                        > You continue to worry about who I am and waste your time doing so.
                        >
                        > "Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well."
                        >
                        > We'll ask you as we've repeatedly asked Jack...where do you get your information?
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Dear Robert et al,
                        > >
                        > > Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well. He is also correct that we can't offer a definitive rebuttal because HCPSS does NOT track this information. However, national and regional information is clear, and in fact, Jack's original assertions are probably generous.
                        > >
                        > > Since I have long suspected you are an HCPSS employee or even a Board of Education member (at the very least a self professed close observer of all things HCPSS)- it is extremely telling that you not only did not know this information, and were so certain it was not true you made such a big deal about it. Every education professional, board member, legislator and parent ought to be aware of these numbers and what they mean --- why didn't you?
                        > >
                        > > According to the rankings that put HoCo at the #3 wealthiest county in the country, it was reported that 58.3% of hoco adults hold bachelor degrees or higher. This is a self selected group - and does not take into consideration whether those adults are originally from hoco (which of course they are not - which is significant because the adults who move here are a more self selecting group than the totality of the children who are raised and educated k-12 here), does not take into account people who moved here from other countries who hold advanced degrees in large percentages in many subgroups, and makes no mention of how long it took them to earn those degrees.
                        > >
                        > > Cindy Vaillancourt
                        > > responding to questions sent to me by hocopubliced members
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                        > > From: pamythompson@
                        > > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:41:23 +0000
                        > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > http://colleges.collegetoolkit.com/colleges/browse/graduation_rates/maryland/24.aspx
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Look at the lower end to gain some perspective
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Jack
                        > >
                        >


                      • Corey Andrews
                        I don t like the fact that we have a staff member or board member anonymously insulting a member of the board. Based off of one of your last posts, you know
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 4, 2012
                          I don't like the fact that we have a staff member or board member anonymously insulting a member of the board. Based off of one of your last posts, you know things about one of the board members that only the most senior people in the school system know.

                          What you're doing is unprofessional and wrong. In the entire time I've been on this listserv, you've never contributed to the discussion on education. You only wait around for Cindy, Allen, me, or someone else to make a comment so you can interject your harsh reaction.

                          I'd watch what you say to members of the Board. If you go to far, I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate to investigate. I'm sure the administrator of this site can check IP addresses.
                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Corey Andrews
                          2012 Candidate for the Howard County Board of Education
                          410-456-6815
                          cacoreya@...


                          --- On Sun, 3/4/12, Thomas Diller <thdiller@...> wrote:

                          From: Thomas Diller <thdiller@...>
                          Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                          To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 10:15 PM

                           

                          You didn't like the results of the last vote?

                          --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, Corey Andrews <cacoreya@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I agree with Roger. We, as an online group, should put this to a vote.
                          >
                          > ----------------------------------------------------------
                          > Corey Andrews 2012 Candidate for the Howard County Board of Education410-456-6815cacoreya@...
                          >
                          > --- On Sun, 3/4/12, Roger Lerner <RLerner@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > From: Roger Lerner <RLerner@...>
                          > Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                          > To: "howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com" <howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Cc: "howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com" <howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 6:06 PM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To the Administrator,Things are plainly out  of control; see latest posts.Sauron and Sarumam have apparently returned, again looking for the "One Ring" of ideological/pedagogical purity.I formally request that you change the terms of this group to require full verification and disclosure of identity.  I believe Yahoo offers such options.If you do not feel you have the right to do this unilaterally, I urge you to put it to a vote.Roger Lerner
                          > Sent from my iPad
                          > On Mar 4, 2012, at 12:41 PM, "cynthia vaillancourt" <CynthiaVaillancourt@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Dear Messrs. Rhodes and Diller,
                          > If you have additional personal comments you would like to share with me, please do not hesitate to contact me on my personal email at cynthiavaillancourt@..., and spare the rest of this online community the vitriol that diminishes us all and the tone of public discourse in general.  I will not be responding to personal attacks on this forum.
                          > Cindy Vaillancourt
                          >
                          >
                          > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                          > From: thdiller@...
                          > Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 03:13:09 +0000
                          > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Robert,
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Why are you even wasting your time with this woman (or this listserv for that matter)? Cindy is a waste of a vote and a waste of a board seat. I doubt she'll even consider running for the board again. It's amazing that she even got more than one vote for vice chair from her peers! We all knew Dyer would vote for her, but what was that student member thinking? Who knows, maybe he knows her children or he's a friend of her family or she gives him rides home from board meetings. In any case, she shouldn't be anywhere near the chair or vice chair or a vote in our children's future!
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "robert.rhodeshc" <robert.rhodeshc@> wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > Lady, you can suspect all you want about who I am. I am curious, which Board member am I? If I am a HCPSS employee, who am I? I hope I have a nice title.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > Who I am is actually not important except to say that I am a very interested party, and I hate to see folks like you, Jack, and AD devote your lives to tearing down the HCPSS. Watching you at BOE meetings is beyond sad as you slouch behind the dias looking completely disinterested. When you do speak, you show just how little you know about the the system, its employees, and most importantly it's students. You ask staff the questions that indicate a severe lack of knowledge, and, in the two years since you started, you've clearly taken little to no interest to learn. What "big ideas" have you offered as a Board member to make all the things you hate better?
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > What is clear is the low regard you show for the hard working curriculum and instruction staff. The recent torture you and AD put staff through over the middle school reading changes is a perfect example of both your lack of knowledge about reading and your complete lack of respect for those who have dedicated their lives to the subject and who have earned higher ed degrees to prove it.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > I hope you realize how much you are seen as a fool and a joke by most of the folks who work at the district level? This is directly the result of how poorly you've treated them. Have you ever taken the time to attend meetings to see how hard they work? Have you ever attended a professional development meeting where staff work to constantly improve the teaching and learning? I've asked around (and no, not as a Board member or as an employee, but as a very actively involved citizen) and your face is never seen anywhere other than up on your throne.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > You've really ticked me off, lady, by making this personal. I hope you decide not to run for re-election in 2014, but if you do, you will definitely know who I am, because I will work non-stop and spend whatever $$$ I have to see that someone who actually wants the HCPSS to succeed gets elected.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > You continue to worry about who I am and waste your time doing so.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > "Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well."
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > We'll ask you as we've repeatedly asked Jack...where do you get your information?
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > Dear Robert et al,
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well. He is also correct that we can't offer a definitive rebuttal because HCPSS does NOT track this information. However, national and regional information is clear, and in fact, Jack's original assertions are probably generous.
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > Since I have long suspected you are an HCPSS employee or even a Board of Education member (at the very least a self professed close observer of all things HCPSS)- it is extremely telling that you not only did not know this information, and were so certain it was not true you made such a big deal about it. Every education professional, board member, legislator and parent ought to be aware of these numbers and what they mean --- why didn't you?
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > According to the rankings that put HoCo at the #3 wealthiest county in the country, it was reported that 58.3% of hoco adults hold bachelor degrees or higher. This is a self selected group - and does not take into consideration whether those adults are originally from hoco (which of course they are not - which is significant because the adults who move here are a more self selecting group than the totality of the children who are raised and educated k-12 here), does not take into account people who moved here from other countries who hold advanced degrees in large percentages in many subgroups, and makes no mention of how long it took them to earn those degrees.
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > Cindy Vaillancourt
                          >
                          > > > responding to questions sent to me by hocopubliced members
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > > > From: pamythompson@
                          >
                          > > > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:41:23 +0000
                          >
                          > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > http://colleges.collegetoolkit.com/colleges/browse/graduation_rates/maryland/24.aspx
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > Look at the lower end to gain some perspective
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > Jack
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >

                        • Corey Andrews
                          You know something about Mrs. Vaillancourt and the student member that only senior staff and board members know.  I would hope the school system would
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 4, 2012
                            You know something about Mrs. Vaillancourt and the student member that only senior staff and board members know. 

                            I would hope the school system would investigate into any potential employee that is insulting(much different than criticizing) any current board member.

                            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            Corey Andrews
                            2012 Candidate for the Howard County Board of Education
                            410-456-6815
                            cacoreya@...


                            --- On Mon, 3/5/12, Thomas Diller <thdiller@...> wrote:

                            From: Thomas Diller <thdiller@...>
                            Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                            To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Monday, March 5, 2012, 12:56 AM

                             

                            Corey, you're too funny! Based on what I said? What did I say? Tell me Columbo! I think my last post mentioned an open vote at a public board meeting that was broadcasted on TV. Are you suggesting that only "the most senior people in the school system" watch the board meetings? I really don't care enough about this to research it, but I'm pretty sure the vote was already discussed on this listserv. So you might want to look into their IP addresses too.

                            And are you going to resolve IP addresses for those who write negative posts about ANY board members or just those who write negatively about Dyer and Vailancourt?

                            --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, Corey Andrews <cacoreya@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I don't like the fact that we have a staff member or board member anonymously insulting a member of the board. Based off of one of your last posts, you know things about one of the board members that only the most senior people in the school system know.
                            > What you're doing is unprofessional and wrong. In the entire time I've been on this listserv, you've never contributed to the discussion on education. You only wait around for Cindy, Allen, me, or someone else to make a comment so you can interject your harsh reaction.
                            > I'd watch what you say to members of the Board. If you go to far, I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate to investigate. I'm sure the administrator of this site can check IP addresses.----------------------------------------------------------
                            > Corey Andrews 2012 Candidate for the Howard County Board of Education410-456-6815cacoreya@...
                            >
                            > --- On Sun, 3/4/12, Thomas Diller <thdiller@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Thomas Diller <thdiller@...>
                            > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                            > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 10:15 PM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > You didn't like the results of the last vote?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, Corey Andrews <cacoreya@> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > I agree with Roger. We, as an online group, should put this to a vote.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            > > Corey Andrews 2012 Candidate for the Howard County Board of Education410-456-6815cacoreya@
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > --- On Sun, 3/4/12, Roger Lerner <RLerner@> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > From: Roger Lerner <RLerner@>
                            >
                            > > Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                            >
                            > > To: "howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com" <howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com>
                            >
                            > > Cc: "howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com" <howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com>
                            >
                            > > Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 6:06 PM
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >  
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > To the Administrator,Things are plainly out  of control; see latest posts.Sauron and Sarumam have apparently returned, again looking for the "One Ring" of ideological/pedagogical purity.I formally request that you change the terms of this group to require full verification and disclosure of identity.  I believe Yahoo offers such options.If you do not feel you have the right to do this unilaterally, I urge you to put it to a vote.Roger Lerner
                            >
                            > > Sent from my iPad
                            >
                            > > On Mar 4, 2012, at 12:41 PM, "cynthia vaillancourt" <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
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                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >  
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Dear Messrs. Rhodes and Diller,
                            >
                            > > If you have additional personal comments you would like to share with me, please do not hesitate to contact me on my personal email at cynthiavaillancourt@, and spare the rest of this online community the vitriol that diminishes us all and the tone of public discourse in general.  I will not be responding to personal attacks on this forum.
                            >
                            > > Cindy Vaillancourt
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > > From: thdiller@
                            >
                            > > Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 03:13:09 +0000
                            >
                            > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
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                            > >
                            >
                            > > Robert,
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Why are you even wasting your time with this woman (or this listserv for that matter)? Cindy is a waste of a vote and a waste of a board seat. I doubt she'll even consider running for the board again. It's amazing that she even got more than one vote for vice chair from her peers! We all knew Dyer would vote for her, but what was that student member thinking? Who knows, maybe he knows her children or he's a friend of her family or she gives him rides home from board meetings. In any case, she shouldn't be anywhere near the chair or vice chair or a vote in our children's future!
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "robert.rhodeshc" <robert.rhodeshc@> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > Lady, you can suspect all you want about who I am. I am curious, which Board member am I? If I am a HCPSS employee, who am I? I hope I have a nice title.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > Who I am is actually not important except to say that I am a very interested party, and I hate to see folks like you, Jack, and AD devote your lives to tearing down the HCPSS. Watching you at BOE meetings is beyond sad as you slouch behind the dias looking completely disinterested. When you do speak, you show just how little you know about the the system, its employees, and most importantly it's students. You ask staff the questions that indicate a severe lack of knowledge, and, in the two years since you started, you've clearly taken little to no interest to learn. What "big ideas" have you offered as a Board member to make all the things you hate better?
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > What is clear is the low regard you show for the hard working curriculum and instruction staff. The recent torture you and AD put staff through over the middle school reading changes is a perfect example of both your lack of knowledge about reading and your complete lack of respect for those who have dedicated their lives to the subject and who have earned higher ed degrees to prove it.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > I hope you realize how much you are seen as a fool and a joke by most of the folks who work at the district level? This is directly the result of how poorly you've treated them. Have you ever taken the time to attend meetings to see how hard they work? Have you ever attended a professional development meeting where staff work to constantly improve the teaching and learning? I've asked around (and no, not as a Board member or as an employee, but as a very actively involved citizen) and your face is never seen anywhere other than up on your throne.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > You've really ticked me off, lady, by making this personal. I hope you decide not to run for re-election in 2014, but if you do, you will definitely know who I am, because I will work non-stop and spend whatever $$$ I have to see that someone who actually wants the HCPSS to succeed gets elected.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > You continue to worry about who I am and waste your time doing so.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > "Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well."
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > We'll ask you as we've repeatedly asked Jack...where do you get your information?
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > Dear Robert et al,
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well. He is also correct that we can't offer a definitive rebuttal because HCPSS does NOT track this information. However, national and regional information is clear, and in fact, Jack's original assertions are probably generous.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > Since I have long suspected you are an HCPSS employee or even a Board of Education member (at the very least a self professed close observer of all things HCPSS)- it is extremely telling that you not only did not know this information, and were so certain it was not true you made such a big deal about it. Every education professional, board member, legislator and parent ought to be aware of these numbers and what they mean --- why didn't you?
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > According to the rankings that put HoCo at the #3 wealthiest county in the country, it was reported that 58.3% of hoco adults hold bachelor degrees or higher. This is a self selected group - and does not take into consideration whether those adults are originally from hoco (which of course they are not - which is significant because the adults who move here are a more self selecting group than the totality of the children who are raised and educated k-12 here), does not take into account people who moved here from other countries who hold advanced degrees in large percentages in many subgroups, and makes no mention of how long it took them to earn those degrees.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > Cindy Vaillancourt
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > responding to questions sent to me by hocopubliced members
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
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                            >
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                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > From: pamythompson@
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:41:23 +0000
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
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                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > http://colleges.collegetoolkit.com/colleges/browse/graduation_rates/maryland/24.aspx
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > Look at the lower end to gain some perspective
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > Jack
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >

                          • The Sola's
                            I agree with Roger, make sure all who publish to this site must be transparent and identify themselves if the person is personally attacking another person
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 5, 2012

                              I agree with Roger, make sure all who publish to this site must be transparent and identify themselves if the person is  personally attacking another person and not dealing with content.   Free speech is free to a point –try shouting fire in a movie theater- then in become dangerous.  In this case it takes away from the real issues present in HCPSS. I suggest the site director reread the policy, excerpted below, and apply for clarification from Yahoo regarding the steps to hold us accountable for our comments.

                              Peter Sola

                               

                              Section three, user responsibility.

                               

                              In consideration of your use of the Yahoo! Services, you represent that you are of legal age to form a binding contract and are not a person barred from receiving the Yahoo! Services under the laws of the United States or other applicable jurisdiction. You also agree to: (a) provide true, accurate, current and complete information about yourself as prompted by the Yahoo! Service's registration form (the "Registration Data") and (b) maintain and promptly update the Registration Data to keep it true, accurate, current and complete. If you provide any information that is untrue, inaccurate, not current or incomplete, or Yahoo! has reasonable grounds to suspect that such information is untrue, inaccurate, not current or incomplete, Yahoo! has the right to suspend or terminate your account and refuse any and all current or future use of the Yahoo! Services (or any portion thereof).

                               

                               

                              From: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com [mailto:howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cynthia vaillancourt
                              Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 12:41 PM
                              To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate

                               

                               

                              Dear Messrs. Rhodes and Diller,
                              If you have additional personal comments you would like to share with me, please do not hesitate to contact me on my personal email at cynthiavaillancourt@..., and spare the rest of this online community the vitriol that diminishes us all and the tone of public discourse in general.  I will not be responding to personal attacks on this forum.
                              Cindy Vaillancourt


                              To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                              From: thdiller@...
                              Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 03:13:09 +0000
                              Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate

                               

                              Robert,

                              Why are you even wasting your time with this woman (or this listserv for that matter)? Cindy is a waste of a vote and a waste of a board seat. I doubt she'll even consider running for the board again. It's amazing that she even got more than one vote for vice chair from her peers! We all knew Dyer would vote for her, but what was that student member thinking? Who knows, maybe he knows her children or he's a friend of her family or she gives him rides home from board meetings. In any case, she shouldn't be anywhere near the chair or vice chair or a vote in our children's future!

                              --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "robert.rhodeshc" <robert.rhodeshc@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Lady, you can suspect all you want about who I am. I am curious, which Board member am I? If I am a HCPSS employee, who am I? I hope I have a nice title.
                              >
                              > Who I am is actually not important except to say that I am a very interested party, and I hate to see folks like you, Jack, and AD devote your lives to tearing down the HCPSS. Watching you at BOE meetings is beyond sad as you slouch behind the dias looking completely disinterested. When you do speak, you show just how little you know about the the system, its employees, and most importantly it's students. You ask staff the questions that indicate a severe lack of knowledge, and, in the two years since you started, you've clearly taken little to no interest to learn. What "big ideas" have you offered as a Board member to make all the things you hate better?
                              >
                              > What is clear is the low regard you show for the hard working curriculum and instruction staff. The recent torture you and AD put staff through over the middle school reading changes is a perfect example of both your lack of knowledge about reading and your complete lack of respect for those who have dedicated their lives to the subject and who have earned higher ed degrees to prove it.
                              >
                              > I hope you realize how much you are seen as a fool and a joke by most of the folks who work at the district level? This is directly the result of how poorly you've treated them. Have you ever taken the time to attend meetings to see how hard they work? Have you ever attended a professional development meeting where staff work to constantly improve the teaching and learning? I've asked around (and no, not as a Board member or as an employee, but as a very actively involved citizen) and your face is never seen anywhere other than up on your throne.
                              >
                              > You've really ticked me off, lady, by making this personal. I hope you decide not to run for re-election in 2014, but if you do, you will definitely know who I am, because I will work non-stop and spend whatever $$$ I have to see that someone who actually wants the HCPSS to succeed gets elected.
                              >
                              > You continue to worry about who I am and waste your time doing so.
                              >
                              > "Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well."
                              >
                              > We'll ask you as we've repeatedly asked Jack...where do you get your information?
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Dear Robert et al,
                              > >
                              > > Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well. He is also correct that we can't offer a definitive rebuttal because HCPSS does NOT track this information. However, national and regional information is clear, and in fact, Jack's original assertions are probably generous.
                              > >
                              > > Since I have long suspected you are an HCPSS employee or even a Board of Education member (at the very least a self professed close observer of all things HCPSS)- it is extremely telling that you not only did not know this information, and were so certain it was not true you made such a big deal about it. Every education professional, board member, legislator and parent ought to be aware of these numbers and what they mean --- why didn't you?
                              > >
                              > > According to the rankings that put HoCo at the #3 wealthiest county in the country, it was reported that 58.3% of hoco adults hold bachelor degrees or higher. This is a self selected group - and does not take into consideration whether those adults are originally from hoco (which of course they are not - which is significant because the adults who move here are a more self selecting group than the totality of the children who are raised and educated k-12 here), does not take into account people who moved here from other countries who hold advanced degrees in large percentages in many subgroups, and makes no mention of how long it took them to earn those degrees.
                              > >
                              > > Cindy Vaillancourt
                              > > responding to questions sent to me by hocopubliced members
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                              > > From: pamythompson@
                              > > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:41:23 +0000
                              > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > http://colleges.collegetoolkit.com/colleges/browse/graduation_rates/maryland/24.aspx
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Look at the lower end to gain some perspective
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Jack
                              > >
                              >

                            • jzsartucci
                              Corey, Anyone can check IP addresses. They are in the header of every post. Then the IP address can be checked on the Internet for location or origin. These
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 5, 2012
                                Corey,

                                Anyone can check IP addresses.  They are in the header of every post.

                                Then the IP address can be checked on the Internet for location or origin.  These locations are not exact, but usually refer to an area like Baltimore or Columbia.

                                Janis Sartucci


                                --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, Corey Andrews <cacoreya@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I don't like the fact that we have a staff member or board member anonymously insulting a member of the board. Based off of one of your last posts, you know things about one of the board members that only the most senior people in the school system know.
                                > What you're doing is unprofessional and wrong. In the entire time I've been on this listserv, you've never contributed to the discussion on education. You only wait around for Cindy, Allen, me, or someone else to make a comment so you can interject your harsh reaction.
                                > I'd watch what you say to members of the Board. If you go to far, I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate to investigate. I'm sure the administrator of this site can check IP addresses.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > Corey Andrews 2012 Candidate for the Howard County Board of Education410-456-6815cacoreya@...
                                >
                                > --- On Sun, 3/4/12, Thomas Diller thdiller@... wrote:
                                >
                                > From: Thomas Diller thdiller@...
                                > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                                > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 10:15 PM
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > You didn't like the results of the last vote?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, Corey Andrews cacoreya@ wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > I agree with Roger. We, as an online group, should put this to a vote.
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                >
                                > > Corey Andrews 2012 Candidate for the Howard County Board of Education410-456-6815cacoreya@
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > --- On Sun, 3/4/12, Roger Lerner RLerner@ wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > From: Roger Lerner RLerner@
                                >
                                > > Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                                >
                                > > To: "howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com" howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > > Cc: "howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com" howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > > Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 6:06 PM
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
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                                >
                                > >  
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                                >
                                > >
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                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > To the Administrator,Things are plainly out  of control; see latest posts.Sauron and Sarumam have apparently returned, again looking for the "One Ring" of ideological/pedagogical purity.I formally request that you change the terms of this group to require full verification and disclosure of identity.  I believe Yahoo offers such options.If you do not feel you have the right to do this unilaterally, I urge you to put it to a vote.Roger Lerner
                                >
                                > > Sent from my iPad
                                >
                                > > On Mar 4, 2012, at 12:41 PM, "cynthia vaillancourt" CynthiaVaillancourt@ wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
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                                >
                                > >  
                                >
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                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > Dear Messrs. Rhodes and Diller,
                                >
                                > > If you have additional personal comments you would like to share with me, please do not hesitate to contact me on my personal email at cynthiavaillancourt@, and spare the rest of this online community the vitriol that diminishes us all and the tone of public discourse in general.  I will not be responding to personal attacks on this forum.
                                >
                                > > Cindy Vaillancourt
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > > From: thdiller@
                                >
                                > > Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 03:13:09 +0000
                                >
                                > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
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                                > > Robert,
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                                > > Why are you even wasting your time with this woman (or this listserv for that matter)? Cindy is a waste of a vote and a waste of a board seat. I doubt she'll even consider running for the board again. It's amazing that she even got more than one vote for vice chair from her peers! We all knew Dyer would vote for her, but what was that student member thinking? Who knows, maybe he knows her children or he's a friend of her family or she gives him rides home from board meetings. In any case, she shouldn't be anywhere near the chair or vice chair or a vote in our children's future!
                                >
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                                >
                                > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "robert.rhodeshc" <robert.rhodeshc@> wrote:
                                >
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                                > > >
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                                > > > Lady, you can suspect all you want about who I am. I am curious, which Board member am I? If I am a HCPSS employee, who am I? I hope I have a nice title.
                                >
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                                > > >
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                                > > > Who I am is actually not important except to say that I am a very interested party, and I hate to see folks like you, Jack, and AD devote your lives to tearing down the HCPSS. Watching you at BOE meetings is beyond sad as you slouch behind the dias looking completely disinterested. When you do speak, you show just how little you know about the the system, its employees, and most importantly it's students. You ask staff the questions that indicate a severe lack of knowledge, and, in the two years since you started, you've clearly taken little to no interest to learn. What "big ideas" have you offered as a Board member to make all the things you hate better?
                                >
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                                > > > What is clear is the low regard you show for the hard working curriculum and instruction staff. The recent torture you and AD put staff through over the middle school reading changes is a perfect example of both your lack of knowledge about reading and your complete lack of respect for those who have dedicated their lives to the subject and who have earned higher ed degrees to prove it.
                                >
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                                > > > I hope you realize how much you are seen as a fool and a joke by most of the folks who work at the district level? This is directly the result of how poorly you've treated them. Have you ever taken the time to attend meetings to see how hard they work? Have you ever attended a professional development meeting where staff work to constantly improve the teaching and learning? I've asked around (and no, not as a Board member or as an employee, but as a very actively involved citizen) and your face is never seen anywhere other than up on your throne.
                                >
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                                > > > You've really ticked me off, lady, by making this personal. I hope you decide not to run for re-election in 2014, but if you do, you will definitely know who I am, because I will work non-stop and spend whatever $$$ I have to see that someone who actually wants the HCPSS to succeed gets elected.
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                                > > > You continue to worry about who I am and waste your time doing so.
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                                > > > "Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well."
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                                > > > We'll ask you as we've repeatedly asked Jack...where do you get your information?
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                                >
                                > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
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                                > > > > Dear Robert et al,
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                                > > > > Jack's information about the number of students who complete Bachelors degrees at all (let alone in 4 years) is accurate in general - and most likely for HoCo as well. He is also correct that we can't offer a definitive rebuttal because HCPSS does NOT track this information. However, national and regional information is clear, and in fact, Jack's original assertions are probably generous.
                                >
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                                > > > > Since I have long suspected you are an HCPSS employee or even a Board of Education member (at the very least a self professed close observer of all things HCPSS)- it is extremely telling that you not only did not know this information, and were so certain it was not true you made such a big deal about it. Every education professional, board member, legislator and parent ought to be aware of these numbers and what they mean --- why didn't you?
                                >
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                                > > > > According to the rankings that put HoCo at the #3 wealthiest county in the country, it was reported that 58.3% of hoco adults hold bachelor degrees or higher. This is a self selected group - and does not take into consideration whether those adults are originally from hoco (which of course they are not - which is significant because the adults who move here are a more self selecting group than the totality of the children who are raised and educated k-12 here), does not take into account people who moved here from other countries who hold advanced degrees in large percentages in many subgroups, and makes no mention of how long it took them to earn those degrees.
                                >
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                                > > > > Cindy Vaillancourt
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                                > > > > responding to questions sent to me by hocopubliced members
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                                > > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
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                                > > > > From: pamythompson@
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                                > >
                                >
                                > > > > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:41:23 +0000
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                                > > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
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                                > > > > Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate
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                                > > > > http://colleges.collegetoolkit.com/colleges/browse/graduation_rates/maryland/24.aspx
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                                > > > > Look at the lower end to gain some perspective
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                                > > > > Jack
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                                >
                              • Ray Lischner
                                ... I disagree. An HCPSS employee might have a very good reason to wish to remain anonymous in this forum. A private citizen might also wish to remain
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 5, 2012
                                  On 03/04/2012 01:06 PM, Roger Lerner wrote:
                                  > I formally request that you change the terms of this group to require
                                  > full verification and disclosure of identity. I believe Yahoo offers
                                  > such options.
                                  > If you do not feel you have the right to do this unilaterally, I urge
                                  > you to put it to a vote.

                                  I disagree. An HCPSS employee might have a very good reason to wish to
                                  remain anonymous in this forum. A private citizen might also wish to
                                  remain anonymous in order to protect children who attend HCPSS schools.
                                  I recommend an excellent blog entry, In Defense of Anonymous Speech:
                                  http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120212133227775

                                  My preferred way to deal with bullies is to ignore them. When they
                                  realize that no one pays any attention to them, they will go away. As
                                  long as people continue to respond, they will continue to provoke.

                                  Please don't feed the trolls.
                                  --
                                  Ray Lischner
                                • Roger Lerner
                                  Nice thought in the abstract, and perhaps in a larger population this would not be a problem, (trolls on an national or Worldwide listserve really are just an
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Mar 5, 2012

                                    Nice thought in the abstract, and perhaps in a larger population this would not be a problem, (trolls on an national or Worldwide listserve really are just an annoyance) but nasty lies, in a  unrefuted hang around, which is why people propagate them, and in  a larger community a couple of nasty’s can have an impact. Yup, there could be a chilling affect on complaining parents or staff in fear of retaliation, but my guess is we could allow the moderator to deal with that, providing anonymity as appropriate.  One informal way, is to have some write for you ( “ A friend who needs to remain anonymous to protect her job/child, says….).   Right now though some folks are dumping their toxic waste right in our discussion and it is sickening us all.   Polluters need to be identified.

                                    Roger Lerner

                                     

                                    From: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com [mailto:howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Lischner
                                    Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:08 PM
                                    To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate

                                     

                                     

                                    On 03/04/2012 01:06 PM, Roger Lerner wrote:

                                    > I formally request that you change the terms of this group to require
                                    > full verification and disclosure of identity. I believe Yahoo offers
                                    > such options.
                                    > If you do not feel you have the right to do this unilaterally, I urge
                                    > you to put it to a vote.

                                    I disagree. An HCPSS employee might have a very good reason to wish to
                                    remain anonymous in this forum. A private citizen might also wish to
                                    remain anonymous in order to protect children who attend HCPSS schools.
                                    I recommend an excellent blog entry, In Defense of Anonymous Speech:
                                    http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120212133227775

                                    My preferred way to deal with bullies is to ignore them. When they
                                    realize that no one pays any attention to them, they will go away. As
                                    long as people continue to respond, they will continue to provoke.

                                    Please don't feed the trolls.
                                    --
                                    Ray Lischner

                                  • Roger Lerner
                                    Sorry, did not do a good job of proofing. Working too fast. Here is an intelligible version. Nice thought in the abstract, and perhaps in a larger population
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Mar 5, 2012

                                      Sorry, did not do a good job of proofing.  Working too fast.  Here is an intelligible version.

                                      Nice thought in the abstract, and perhaps in a larger population this would not be a problem, (trolls on a national or Worldwide listserve really are just an annoyance) but nasty lies, iunrefuted hang around, which is why people propagate them, and in a compact community such as ours, a couple of nasty’s can have an impact. Yup, there could be a chilling effect on complaining parents or staff who fear retaliation, but my guess is we could allow the moderator to deal with that, providing anonymity as appropriate.  One informal way, is to have someone write for you (e.g.  “ A friend who needs to remain anonymous to protect her job/child, says….”).   Right now though some folks are dumping their toxic waste right in our discussion and it is sickening.   Polluters need to be identified.

                                      Roger Lerner

                                       

                                       

                                      From: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com [mailto:howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lerner
                                      Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:45 PM
                                      To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate

                                       

                                       

                                      Nice thought in the abstract, and perhaps in a larger population this would not be a problem, (trolls on an national or Worldwide listserve really are just an annoyance) but nasty lies, in a  unrefuted hang around, which is why people propagate them, and in  a larger community a couple of nasty’s can have an impact. Yup, there could be a chilling affect on complaining parents or staff in fear of retaliation, but my guess is we could allow the moderator to deal with that, providing anonymity as appropriate.  One informal way, is to have some write for you ( “ A friend who needs to remain anonymous to protect her job/child, says….).   Right now though some folks are dumping their toxic waste right in our discussion and it is sickening us all.   Polluters need to be identified.

                                      Roger Lerner

                                       

                                      From: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com [mailto:howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Lischner
                                      Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:08 PM
                                      To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate

                                       

                                       

                                      On 03/04/2012 01:06 PM, Roger Lerner wrote:

                                      > I formally request that you change the terms of this group to require
                                      > full verification and disclosure of identity. I believe Yahoo offers
                                      > such options.
                                      > If you do not feel you have the right to do this unilaterally, I urge
                                      > you to put it to a vote.

                                      I disagree. An HCPSS employee might have a very good reason to wish to
                                      remain anonymous in this forum. A private citizen might also wish to
                                      remain anonymous in order to protect children who attend HCPSS schools.
                                      I recommend an excellent blog entry, In Defense of Anonymous Speech:
                                      http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120212133227775

                                      My preferred way to deal with bullies is to ignore them. When they
                                      realize that no one pays any attention to them, they will go away. As
                                      long as people continue to respond, they will continue to provoke.

                                      Please don't feed the trolls.
                                      --
                                      Ray Lischner

                                    • The Sola's
                                      Not a good suggestion because spreading lies, during an election year hurts the candidates. Peter Sola From: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Mar 5, 2012

                                        Not a good suggestion because spreading lies,  during an election year hurts the candidates.

                                         

                                        Peter Sola

                                         

                                        From: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com [mailto:howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Lischner
                                        Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:08 PM
                                        To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] Re: Find Maryland Colleges by Graduation Rate

                                         

                                         

                                        On 03/04/2012 01:06 PM, Roger Lerner wrote:

                                        > I formally request that you change the terms of this group to require
                                        > full verification and disclosure of identity. I believe Yahoo offers
                                        > such options.
                                        > If you do not feel you have the right to do this unilaterally, I urge
                                        > you to put it to a vote.

                                        I disagree. An HCPSS employee might have a very good reason to wish to
                                        remain anonymous in this forum. A private citizen might also wish to
                                        remain anonymous in order to protect children who attend HCPSS schools.
                                        I recommend an excellent blog entry, In Defense of Anonymous Speech:
                                        http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120212133227775

                                        My preferred way to deal with bullies is to ignore them. When they
                                        realize that no one pays any attention to them, they will go away. As
                                        long as people continue to respond, they will continue to provoke.

                                        Please don't feed the trolls.
                                        --
                                        Ray Lischner

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