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RE: [howardpubliced] tick off all sides

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  • RLJ
    I don t know about litmus test , but I do think it would be useful to hear candidates responses on this. I want to know how a candidate would handle conflict
    Message 1 of 14 , May 1, 2000
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      I don't know about "litmus test", but I do think it would be useful to hear
      candidates' responses on this. I want to know how a candidate would handle
      conflict and how s/he would respond to citizen participation. This is an
      opportunity to these important skills in action.

      Rebecca Johnson

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Wanda Hurt [mailto:wandahurt@...]
      > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 1:34 PM
      > To: howardpubliced@egroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] tick off all sides
      >
      >
      > I do not like litmus tests, and this appears to be a litmus test for the
      > candidates.
      >
      > Wanda
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: <WideawakeK@...>
      > To: <howardpubliced@egroups.com>
      > Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 11:29 PM
      > Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] tick off all sides
      >
      >
      > > I agree with some of your points (you can guess which ones) and
      > I disagree
      > > with others, but I commend you for being the first and only candidate to
      > > contact me on this issue (after the meeting) and the first candidate to
      > make
      > > a statement about the events.
      > >
      > > By the way to all - via e-mail, I tried to contact Steve a week
      > before the
      > > BOE meeting. He did not respond. So, it appears that someone
      > did attempt
      > to
      > > contact him.
      > > -- Kristine Lockwood
    • Wanda Hurt
      I am finished with my part of the comments on this subject, I only wanted to generate a few comments to illustrate that democracy in our country is the right
      Message 2 of 14 , May 1, 2000
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        I am finished with my part of the comments on this subject, I only wanted to
        generate a few comments to illustrate that democracy in our country is the
        right to a difference of opinion. My opinion is diametrically opposed to
        the position of many individuals on this list. That is my right as they are
        entitled to theirs. On this issue I do not think that we need worry that we
        will ever have a meeting of the minds.

        Wanda
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <mmckiss@...>
        To: <howardpubliced@egroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 4:57 PM
        Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] tick off all sides


        --- In howardpubliced@egroups.com, "Wanda Hurt" <wandahurt@h...>
        wrote:
        > One, I don't like a litmus test on one issue because many of the
        main issues
        > are then ignored and you can get a pretty narrow candidate.

        How a candidte thinks the BOE should operate and interact with the
        public is not a narrow issue. The Kristine issue is just the tip of
        the iceburg. The eliteist attitudes of the BOE members has been a
        campaign theme for several elections now. That is the litmus test
        that we judge candidates on...not school prayer, vouchers or public
        money for books.


        > Two, I am a veteran of many many demonstrations, sit ins and other
        forms of civil disobedience in my misspent youth, and in only few
        instances did we accomplish more then getting our pictures in the
        paper.

        raising public awareness of an issue is often the biggest
        accomplishment of any protest movement. The student and parents
        actions were very successful even if Kristine is not reinstated.

        I am an advocate of change, but democratic change. There is an
        election this fall, put your energies into electing the best school
        board possible, but not only on the basis of are they pro-Kristine or
        anti-Kristine.

        How can we have the best board possible when the best out there dont
        run or the electorate is uninformed and selects thebunch we have now.

        > I guess I would have staged a walk out with a press conference
        scheduled when it was obvious from the very rules of listening post
        that the meeting would go this way. Am I accusing the demonstrators
        from planning this take over prior to the BOE meeting????

        Perhaps the pressence of law enforcement officials in the parking lot
        prior tothe meeting incited the mob. Going out in the hall wouldnt
        have accomplished anything...the BOE would have voted and it would
        have been too late.


        The listening post rules have been for as long as I can remember to
        deal with issues that are not on the agenda

        SO the question AGAIN...when is the public suppose to speak to the
        elected officials in an open public forum, on the record, on an issue
        that the BOE has totake action on???? Why not model the structure of
        the County Council????

        (and that goes back qiuite a few years), the rules were not changed
        just to inconvenience you, and you know that. The three minute rule
        has also been practiced (if not formally written down) for many
        years. I have also attended BOE meetings where they have limited the
        number of speakers.

        obviously the rules can be bent to accomodate the issue at the time.
        Sandie French did just that last Thursday when a woman was speaking
        on a totaly different subject...Mrs. French said that they dont
        usually respond to listening post testimony, but ....and then she
        gave an explanation. Why not allow 5 additional students to
        speak...Mrs. French has made accomodations for other students to
        speak during hearings, in front of others who were signed up. They
        new this was comming, that is why Mrs. French read a disclaimer
        before the meeting.


        > Now as to the BOE, do I think that they are handling the situation
        > correctly? No. Do I think that they need to get a written
        statement from
        > Kristine that will free them to release all of the documents
        pertaining to
        > this personel issue (so that they will not be in violation of law
        or subject
        > to a lawsuit from Kristine for releasing confidential information)
        yes.
        > There always three sides to every story, her side, their side and
        the truth.
        > We need to know the truth.

        Its interesting that all the public comments from Hickey or Caplan or
        BOE membrs have been "We cant comment on personel issues because of
        confidentiality...BUT yada yada...they comment anyway




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      • WideawakeK@aol.com
        Hello all, This is why I have released everything to the press. I can tell you that dishonestly runs rampant in the school system, and I am not going to give
        Message 3 of 14 , May 1, 2000
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          Hello all,
          This is why I have released everything to the press. I can tell you that
          dishonestly runs rampant in the school system, and I am not going to give
          them blind permission to make more thing s up about me.

          If you question whether I am a good teacher of not, listen to my clients.

          -- Kristine

          In a message dated 5/1/00 4:11:40 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time,
          wandahurt@... writes:

          << Do I think that they need to get a written statement from
          Kristine that will free them to release all of the documents pertaining to
          this personel issue (so that they will not be in violation of law or subject
          to a lawsuit from Kristine for releasing confidential information) yes. >>
        • WideawakeK@aol.com
          1. Mob rule? That s not what I would call it. I would call it a missed opportunity to hear our youth. Shame big time on the BOE. 2. The DOE would not answer
          Message 4 of 14 , May 1, 2000
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            1. Mob rule? That's not what I would call it. I would call it a missed
            opportunity to hear our youth. Shame big time on the BOE.
            2. The DOE would not answer the listening post phone the day before. One
            parents said it rang for 25 minutes.



            In a message dated 5/1/00 1:32:59 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time,
            wandahurt@... writes:

            << I have not responded or added comment to the controversy that has
            surrounded this issue, but I do agree with Jerry that the citizens were wrong
            to take over the meeting in the manner that they did. My own thoughts after
            reading the accounts in the newspaper was that this was mob rule and
            democracy cannot operate under mob rule. I was reminded of a scene "Tale of
            Two Cities" (the 1930's version with Ronald Coleman) when the French
            revolutionary is in the court room yelling "guillotine, guillotine" . As a
            American History fanatic I support the right of free assembly and citizens
            rights, but I abhor mob rule. I was not at the meeting, so I am only going
            by what I read in the paper and what I have read on the onelist. I do not
            agree with what is going on.

            Wanda >>
          • Victor Cofield
            Wanda wrote: So June, was the paper account accurate or was there more than they printed, please inform me? June wrote: Hi Wanda sorry it took so long to get
            Message 5 of 14 , May 2, 2000
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              Wanda wrote:   
               
              So June, was the paper account accurate or was there more than they printed, please inform me?
               
              June wrote:
               
              Hi Wanda sorry it took so long to get back.  I think you and I know each other well enough to respectfully agree to disagree on issues, but I also know that you have been a hero over the 6 million dollars and private schools issue for many folks, so we must never forget the whole person we each are.
               
              I can tell you what I saw and experienced for the first 45-50 minutes of the meeting, when I left Jerry Johnston was the only board of education candidate still in the room, and he personally came over to me and we chatted briefly and he told me the importance he felt to stay and hear what everyone had to say.
               
              The meeting started with the reading of the statement about 5 speakers, and 3 minutes, and how long that has been going on.  I have attended many meetings and this is the first time I have heard this statement made, while the rule may be limited I have witnessed many times where the public has been asked if anyone else not on the list wanted to speak, and this has been at Listening Post.
               
              Barry Tevelow spoke, his wife spoke, a woman spoke about her concerns that no one from the board had responded to her when she spoke in December about the National Honor society, and was there today to speak about the need for minority administrators in western Howard County, and now her concerns about the removal of a minority administrator from western Howard County when she saw the transfers for the school system.  This woman was not with the group from what she was saying but she was speaking as others were about not being heard.  A mother spoke about letting go of our children, and then her daughter spoke. 
               
              The chairperson went to proceed with the agenda and Mr. Dyer stood and did say something like madam chairperson the public beseech you to let them speak.  The chairperson said that they have community meetings and arrangements could be made to let them be heard, but there was a long agenda and business to take care of.  (Please note this is rough memory).  Mr. Dyer continued to stand and stated that this was a public meeting in a public room and the public has come out to be heard.  The chairperson asked Mr. Dyer to sit down as the security person for the school system moved up to speak to the chairperson.  As the two spoke quietly, Mr. Dyer orderly started asking folks who wanted to speak and hands started to be raised by many.  Then the chairperson adjourned the meeting and everyone got up and left and members of the audience. 
               
              Initially the public was loud because of the shock of the board of education, superintendent, associate superintendents, staff, public relations person, board secretary all walked out.  But Mr. Tevelow spoke to the supporters and shared the importance of not acting as the elected officials just had but set an example of listening, and that they had the public there and they would be listened too, and proudly these supporters did just that they showed the press, the reporters and the public just what listening is all about and they were heard by the public, at least those who were willing to stay in the room. 
               
              Folks who were there for other reasons and saw the actions said they will be going back to their communities to tell the public what they had witnessed from elected officials of the school system.  I was impressed to watch how orderly the supporters raised hands, applauded each other, spoke about their concerns, shared stories over how Ms. Lockwood had changed their lives as students and parents, how Ms. Lockwood respects students, all one at a time, no shouting, no trying to talk over each other, no cursing, nothing for the first hour (starting from Listening Post time).  Imagine having that many folks obviously upset and with a message and they respectfully waited and took turns to show what listening is.  Now what happen after that I can not comment to, but I have no reason not to believe those who were present in the room.
               
              What I do know from life that unfortunately arrogance eventually does bring out a reaction in folks, but for the hour I saw it was impressive.
               
              Thoughtful,
              June
            • Wanda Hurt
              Thank you June for your notes. That is not the way that the paper reported the incident. Your insight is helpful and appreciated. Wanda ... From: Victor
              Message 6 of 14 , May 2, 2000
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                Thank you June for your notes.  That is not the way that the paper reported the incident.  Your insight is helpful and appreciated.
                 
                Wanda
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 6:17 PM
                Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] tick off all sides

                Wanda wrote:   
                 
                So June, was the paper account accurate or was there more than they printed, please inform me?
                 
                June wrote:
                 
                Hi Wanda sorry it took so long to get back.  I think you and I know each other well enough to respectfully agree to disagree on issues, but I also know that you have been a hero over the 6 million dollars and private schools issue for many folks, so we must never forget the whole person we each are.
                 
                I can tell you what I saw and experienced for the first 45-50 minutes of the meeting, when I left Jerry Johnston was the only board of education candidate still in the room, and he personally came over to me and we chatted briefly and he told me the importance he felt to stay and hear what everyone had to say.
                 
                The meeting started with the reading of the statement about 5 speakers, and 3 minutes, and how long that has been going on.  I have attended many meetings and this is the first time I have heard this statement made, while the rule may be limited I have witnessed many times where the public has been asked if anyone else not on the list wanted to speak, and this has been at Listening Post.
                 
                Barry Tevelow spoke, his wife spoke, a woman spoke about her concerns that no one from the board had responded to her when she spoke in December about the National Honor society, and was there today to speak about the need for minority administrators in western Howard County, and now her concerns about the removal of a minority administrator from western Howard County when she saw the transfers for the school system.  This woman was not with the group from what she was saying but she was speaking as others were about not being heard.  A mother spoke about letting go of our children, and then her daughter spoke. 
                 
                The chairperson went to proceed with the agenda and Mr. Dyer stood and did say something like madam chairperson the public beseech you to let them speak.  The chairperson said that they have community meetings and arrangements could be made to let them be heard, but there was a long agenda and business to take care of.  (Please note this is rough memory).  Mr. Dyer continued to stand and stated that this was a public meeting in a public room and the public has come out to be heard.  The chairperson asked Mr. Dyer to sit down as the security person for the school system moved up to speak to the chairperson.  As the two spoke quietly, Mr. Dyer orderly started asking folks who wanted to speak and hands started to be raised by many.  Then the chairperson adjourned the meeting and everyone got up and left and members of the audience. 
                 
                Initially the public was loud because of the shock of the board of education, superintendent, associate superintendents, staff, public relations person, board secretary all walked out.  But Mr. Tevelow spoke to the supporters and shared the importance of not acting as the elected officials just had but set an example of listening, and that they had the public there and they would be listened too, and proudly these supporters did just that they showed the press, the reporters and the public just what listening is all about and they were heard by the public, at least those who were willing to stay in the room. 
                 
                Folks who were there for other reasons and saw the actions said they will be going back to their communities to tell the public what they had witnessed from elected officials of the school system.  I was impressed to watch how orderly the supporters raised hands, applauded each other, spoke about their concerns, shared stories over how Ms. Lockwood had changed their lives as students and parents, how Ms. Lockwood respects students, all one at a time, no shouting, no trying to talk over each other, no cursing, nothing for the first hour (starting from Listening Post time).  Imagine having that many folks obviously upset and with a message and they respectfully waited and took turns to show what listening is.  Now what happen after that I can not comment to, but I have no reason not to believe those who were present in the room.
                 
                What I do know from life that unfortunately arrogance eventually does bring out a reaction in folks, but for the hour I saw it was impressive.
                 
                Thoughtful,
                June


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