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Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS

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  • pamythompson
    Allen , What about Dean v. Utica I believe that we as parents have a right to both gather at our schools as well as freedom of speech . Our children are then
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 31, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Allen ,

      What about Dean v. Utica >

      I believe that we as parents have a right to both gather at our schools as well as freedom of speech . Our children are then under our supervision and therefor in loco parentis does not apply . In this situation our children then have full rights . The decision of Dean v. Utica does not allow school officials to censor wantonly or based on personal opinion .

      I would like to form a parents cluster for each of our high schools and their feeder schools in an effort to fully participate in our childrens education .

      Jack



      --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...> wrote:
      >
      > jack,
      >
      > access to the schools is controlled by any "authorized employee" under
      > procedures established by the "building administrator."
      > see policy 3020 http://www.hcpss.org/board/policies/3020.pdf
      >
      > re: students accompanied by a parent having "full rights" -- i believe
      > "hazelwood" would still apply so long as the child is on school property.
      >
      > allen
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: pamythompson
      > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:35 AM
      > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
      >
      >
      > Since the school system confirms that the parent is the child's primary
      > educator and therefor we should have a right to access . Then we as parents
      > should be allowed to gather as a group at the school {periodically) and
      > discuss any issue pertaining to our children and at these meetings our
      > children would have full rights .
      >
      > Would I be correst in these assumptions ?
      >
      > Jack
      >
      > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Mr. Allen Dyer
      > >
      > > I believe stems from a teaching of respect I recieved as a child .
      > >
      > > Participation in governance of the institution by students , perhaps
      > delves beyond freedom of speech , the right of every being to have a voice
      > in and therefor participate in their own destiny . The parents obligation to
      > listen , that nurturing through communication is essential to their
      > education . In the parents absence the child must develope these abilities .
      > If our educational systems are to assume the role of parent then that
      > respect to the child must be preserved .
      > >
      > > I will give much thought to what you have presented
      > >
      > > Jack
      > >
      > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > jack,
      > > >
      > > > i have not collected any recent ideas re: a student bill of rights but
      > i
      > > > have long supported legislatively overturning hazelwood and restoring
      > full
      > > > tinker rights using the massachusetts general laws, chap 71, sec 82,
      > student
      > > > bill of rights approach:
      > > >
      > > > In addition to the United States Constitution granting Freedom of
      > > > Expression Rights to public school students, some state constitutions
      > afford
      > > > greater rights to public school students than those granted by the
      > United
      > > > States Constitution. For example, Massachusetts General Laws Chapter
      > 71,
      > > > sec. 82 grants broader rights to public secondary school schools
      > regarding
      > > > Rights of Students to Freedom of Expression. It states:
      > > >
      > > > Chapter 71: Section 82. Public secondary schools; right of students
      > to
      > > > freedom of expression; limitations; definitions
      > > >
      > > > Section 82. The right of students to freedom of expression in the
      > public
      > > > schools of the commonwealth shall not be abridged, provided that such
      > right
      > > > shall not cause any disruption or disorder within the school. Freedom
      > of
      > > > expression shall include without limitation, the rights and
      > responsibilities
      > > > of students, collectively and individually, (a) to express their views
      > > > through speech and symbols, (b) to write, publish and disseminate
      > their
      > > > views, (c) to assemble peaceably on school property for the purpose of
      > > > expressing their opinions. Any assembly planned by students during
      > regularly
      > > > scheduled school hours shall be held only at a time and place approved
      > in
      > > > advance by the school principal or his designee. No expression made by
      > > > students in the exercise of such rights shall be deemed to be an
      > expression
      > > > of school policy and no school officials shall be held responsible in
      > any
      > > > civil or criminal action for any expression made or published by the
      > > > students. For the purposes of this section and sections eighty-three
      > to
      > > > eighty-five, inclusive, the word student shall mean any person
      > attending a
      > > > public secondary school in the commonwealth. The word school official
      > shall
      > > > mean any member or employee of the local school committee.
      > > >
      > > > The result is students in the public secondary schools of the
      > Commonwealth
      > > > of Massachusetts are only held to the "Tinker" standard regarding
      > Freedom of
      > > > Expression.
      > > >
      > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_rights
      > > >
      > > > if you are interested in coming to a board of ed public forum and
      > presenting
      > > > 3 minutes on the need for a student bill of rights, at the next board
      > > > meeting i would attempt to add discussion of a student bill of rights
      > to the
      > > > agenda (note that i don't expect much support from the current board,
      > but, i
      > > > could be pleasantly surprised).
      > > >
      > > > also, feel free to use "mr. dyer" but "allen" is my preferrence.
      > > >
      > > > allen
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > >
      > > > From: pamythompson
      > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:50 PM
      > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Mr. Dyer
      > > >
      > > > I would like to see what you have collected on this project so
      > far as
      > > > well as other ideas that you are pursueing on behalf of our children
      > if
      > > > posible .
      > > >
      > > > Jack
      > > >
      > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson"
      > <pamythompson@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > STATEWIDE STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS.
      > > > >
      > > > > as citizens don't have the ability to censor our opponents, fire
      > our
      > > > critics,
      > > > > and arrest those who disagree with us, but, we do have the
      > > > constitutional
      > > > > right to demonstrate.
      > > > >
      > > > > the truth cannot prevail unless the truth is heard
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > 10 years , I close my eyes , 10 years , where was I ?
      > > > >
      > > > > Well Mr. Dyer , sorry I missed you back then . What do you have on
      > this
      > > > project so far ?
      > > > >
      > > > > jack
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ------------------------------------
      > > >
      > > > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original
      > messages
      > > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
      > > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain
      > their
      > > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original messages
      > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
      > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain their
      > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
    • Allen Dyer
      ... From: pamythompson To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 2:31 AM Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS Allen ,
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 31, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 2:31 AM
        Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS

        Allen ,

           What about Dean v. Utica >
        dean v utica applies student newspapers that are operated as a limited public forum.  i don't think the presence of parents at school, by itself, qualifies as a limited public forum.  in contrast, the forum at the beginning of regularly scheduled board meetings, in my opinion, constitutes a limited public forum.  allen

          I believe that we as parents have a right to both gather at our schools as well as freedom of speech . Our children are then under our supervision and therefor in loco parentis does not apply . In this situation our children then have full rights . The decision of Dean v. Utica does not allow school officials to censor wantonly or based on personal opinion .

          I would like to form a parents cluster for each of our high schools and their feeder schools in an effort to fully participate in our childrens education .
         
        if you plan on using school facilities after the end of the school day, i believe you are removed sufficiently from the direct authority/sponsorship of the principal so that your parent/student group would have full first amendment rights - including religious speech.  Westside School District v. Mergens, 496 U.S. 226 (1990)
         
        use of after school facilities (scheduling, fees, etc) is covered by policy 10020 -- excerpt re: who can use
         

        School buildings and grounds may be used for education, civic, social, religious, and recreational activities by nonprofit organizations for such nonprofit activities described above in this policy within Howard County. However, profit making organizations may be permitted to use school facilities for nonprofit activities such as: athletic programs, fund-raising activities for charitable purposes, and employee-related activities.

         
        allen
         


        Jack

         

        --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...> wrote:
        >
        > jack,
        >
        > access to the schools is controlled by any "authorized employee" under
        > procedures established by the "building administrator."
        > see policy 3020  http://www.hcpss.org/board/policies/3020.pdf
        >
        > re: students accompanied by a parent having "full rights" -- i believe
        > "hazelwood" would still apply so long as the child is on school property.
        >
        > allen
        >
        >   ----- Original Message -----
        >   From: pamythompson
        >   To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
        >   Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:35 AM
        >   Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
        >
        >
        >      Since the school system confirms that the parent is the child's primary
        > educator and therefor we should have a right to access . Then we as parents
        > should be allowed to gather as a group at the school {periodically) and
        > discuss any issue pertaining to our children and at these meetings our
        > children would have full rights .
        >
        >     Would I be correst in these assumptions ?
        >
        >   Jack
        >
        >   --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@>
        > wrote:
        >   >
        >   > Mr. Allen Dyer
        >   >
        >   >     I believe stems from a teaching of respect I recieved as a child .
        >   >
        >   >    Participation in governance of the institution by students , perhaps
        > delves beyond freedom of speech , the right of every being to have a voice
        > in and therefor participate in their own destiny . The parents obligation to
        > listen , that nurturing through communication is essential to their
        > education . In the parents absence the child must develope these abilities .
        > If our educational systems are to assume the role of parent then that
        > respect to the child must be preserved .
        >   >
        >   >   I will give much thought to what you have presented
        >   >
        >   > Jack
        >   >
        >   > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
        >   > >
        >   > > jack,
        >   > >
        >   > > i have not collected any recent ideas re: a student bill of rights but
        > i
        >   > > have long supported legislatively overturning hazelwood and restoring
        > full
        >   > > tinker rights using the massachusetts general laws, chap 71, sec 82,
        > student
        >   > > bill of rights approach:
        >   > >
        >   > >   In addition to the United States Constitution granting Freedom of
        >   > > Expression Rights to public school students, some state constitutions
        > afford
        >   > > greater rights to public school students than those granted by the
        > United
        >   > > States Constitution. For example, Massachusetts General Laws Chapter
        > 71,
        >   > > sec. 82 grants broader rights to public secondary school schools
        > regarding
        >   > > Rights of Students to Freedom of Expression. It states:
        >   > >
        >   > >   Chapter 71: Section 82. Public secondary schools; right of students
        > to
        >   > > freedom of expression; limitations; definitions
        >   > >
        >   > >   Section 82. The right of students to freedom of expression in the
        > public
        >   > > schools of the commonwealth shall not be abridged, provided that such
        > right
        >   > > shall not cause any disruption or disorder within the school. Freedom
        > of
        >   > > expression shall include without limitation, the rights and
        > responsibilities
        >   > > of students, collectively and individually, (a) to express their views
        >   > > through speech and symbols, (b) to write, publish and disseminate
        > their
        >   > > views, (c) to assemble peaceably on school property for the purpose of
        >   > > expressing their opinions. Any assembly planned by students during
        > regularly
        >   > > scheduled school hours shall be held only at a time and place approved
        > in
        >   > > advance by the school principal or his designee. No expression made by
        >   > > students in the exercise of such rights shall be deemed to be an
        > expression
        >   > > of school policy and no school officials shall be held responsible in
        > any
        >   > > civil or criminal action for any expression made or published by the
        >   > > students. For the purposes of this section and sections eighty-three
        > to
        >   > > eighty-five, inclusive, the word student shall mean any person
        > attending a
        >   > > public secondary school in the commonwealth. The word school official
        > shall
        >   > > mean any member or employee of the local school committee.
        >   > >
        >   > >   The result is students in the public secondary schools of the
        > Commonwealth
        >   > > of Massachusetts are only held to the "Tinker" standard regarding
        > Freedom of
        >   > > Expression.
        >   > >
        >   > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_rights
        >   > >
        >   > > if you are interested in coming to a board of ed public forum and
        > presenting
        >   > > 3 minutes on the need for a student bill of rights, at the next board
        >   > > meeting i would attempt to add discussion of a student bill of rights
        > to the
        >   > > agenda (note that i don't expect much support from the current board,
        > but, i
        >   > > could be pleasantly surprised).
        >   > >
        >   > > also, feel free to use "mr. dyer" but "allen" is my preferrence.
        >   > >
        >   > > allen
        >   > >
        >   > > ----- Original Message -----
        >   > >
        >   > >   From: pamythompson
        >   > >   To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
        >   > >   Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:50 PM
        >   > >   Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
        >   > >
        >   > >
        >   > >   Mr.  Dyer
        >   > >
        >   > >      I would like to see what you have collected on this project so
        > far as
        >   > > well as other ideas that you are pursueing on behalf of our children
        > if
        >   > > posible .
        >   > >
        >   > >   Jack
        >   > >
        >   > >   --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson"
        > <pamythompson@>
        >   > > wrote:
        >   > >   >
        >   > >   >  STATEWIDE STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS.
        >   > >   >
        >   > >   > as citizens don't have the ability to censor our opponents, fire
        > our
        >   > > critics,
        >   > >   > and arrest those who disagree with us, but, we do have the
        >   > > constitutional
        >   > >   > right to demonstrate.
        >   > >   >
        >   > >   > the truth cannot prevail unless the truth is heard
        >   > >   >
        >   > >   >
        >   > >   >
        >   > >   >      10 years , I close my eyes , 10 years , where was I ?
        >   > >   >
        >   > >   > Well Mr. Dyer , sorry I missed you back then . What do you have on
        > this
        >   > > project so far ?
        >   > >   >
        >   > >   > jack
        >   > >   >
        >   > >
        >   > >
        >   > >
        >   > >
        >   > >   ------------------------------------
        >   > >
        >   > >   This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List.  All original
        > messages
        >   > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
        >   > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain
        > their
        >   > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
        >   > >
        >   >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >   ------------------------------------
        >
        >   This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List.  All original messages
        > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
        > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain their
        > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
        >




        ------------------------------------

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      • pamythompson
        In loco parentis doctrine In regards to students rights has to do more with the teachers assumption of parental rights in the absence thereof . Further a child
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 1, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          In loco parentis doctrine

          In regards to students rights has to do more with the teachers assumption of parental rights in the absence thereof .

          Further a child has rights , how are they then removed for the teachers benefit and then restored for convience ?

          What process is there to insure that the teacher has the capacity to assume these rights ?

          When the school closes and the child is told to leave the building . At this point the school has abandoned the child , the child's parent was detained ie a car accident etc. The child's rights are then restored and said child must make decisions to fend for himself ?

          The school repeatedly tries to diminish the parents rights by claiming that highschool students are almost grown and therefor are responsible which effectively limits the parents role as well as their assumed responsibilities under In loco parentis .

          Maryland laws in regard to emancipation in relation to students rights overall .

          Jack

          BTW This is a good topic for discussion in our schools .

          --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: pamythompson
          > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 2:31 AM
          > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
          >
          >
          > Allen ,
          >
          > What about Dean v. Utica >
          >
          > dean v utica applies student newspapers that are operated as a limited
          > public forum. i don't think the presence of parents at school, by itself,
          > qualifies as a limited public forum. in contrast, the forum at the
          > beginning of regularly scheduled board meetings, in my opinion, constitutes
          > a limited public forum. allen
          >
          >
          > I believe that we as parents have a right to both gather at our schools
          > as well as freedom of speech . Our children are then under our supervision
          > and therefor in loco parentis does not apply . In this situation our
          > children then have full rights . The decision of Dean v. Utica does not
          > allow school officials to censor wantonly or based on personal opinion .
          >
          > I would like to form a parents cluster for each of our high schools and
          > their feeder schools in an effort to fully participate in our childrens
          > education .
          >
          > if you plan on using school facilities after the end of the school day, i
          > believe you are removed sufficiently from the direct authority/sponsorship
          > of the principal so that your parent/student group would have full first
          > amendment rights - including religious speech. Westside School District v.
          > Mergens, 496 U.S. 226 (1990)
          >
          > use of after school facilities (scheduling, fees, etc) is covered by policy
          > 10020 -- excerpt re: who can use
          >
          > School buildings and grounds may be used for education, civic, social,
          > religious, and recreational activities by nonprofit organizations for such
          > nonprofit activities described above in this policy within Howard County.
          > However, profit making organizations may be permitted to use school
          > facilities for nonprofit activities such as: athletic programs, fund-raising
          > activities for charitable purposes, and employee-related activities.
          >
          >
          > allen
          >
          >
          >
          > Jack
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
          > >
          > > jack,
          > >
          > > access to the schools is controlled by any "authorized employee" under
          > > procedures established by the "building administrator."
          > > see policy 3020 http://www.hcpss.org/board/policies/3020.pdf
          > >
          > > re: students accompanied by a parent having "full rights" -- i believe
          > > "hazelwood" would still apply so long as the child is on school
          > property.
          > >
          > > allen
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: pamythompson
          > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:35 AM
          > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
          > >
          > >
          > > Since the school system confirms that the parent is the child's
          > primary
          > > educator and therefor we should have a right to access . Then we as
          > parents
          > > should be allowed to gather as a group at the school {periodically) and
          > > discuss any issue pertaining to our children and at these meetings our
          > > children would have full rights .
          > >
          > > Would I be correst in these assumptions ?
          > >
          > > Jack
          > >
          > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@>
          > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Mr. Allen Dyer
          > > >
          > > > I believe stems from a teaching of respect I recieved as a child
          > .
          > > >
          > > > Participation in governance of the institution by students ,
          > perhaps
          > > delves beyond freedom of speech , the right of every being to have a
          > voice
          > > in and therefor participate in their own destiny . The parents
          > obligation to
          > > listen , that nurturing through communication is essential to their
          > > education . In the parents absence the child must develope these
          > abilities .
          > > If our educational systems are to assume the role of parent then that
          > > respect to the child must be preserved .
          > > >
          > > > I will give much thought to what you have presented
          > > >
          > > > Jack
          > > >
          > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > jack,
          > > > >
          > > > > i have not collected any recent ideas re: a student bill of rights
          > but
          > > i
          > > > > have long supported legislatively overturning hazelwood and
          > restoring
          > > full
          > > > > tinker rights using the massachusetts general laws, chap 71, sec
          > 82,
          > > student
          > > > > bill of rights approach:
          > > > >
          > > > > In addition to the United States Constitution granting Freedom
          > of
          > > > > Expression Rights to public school students, some state
          > constitutions
          > > afford
          > > > > greater rights to public school students than those granted by the
          > > United
          > > > > States Constitution. For example, Massachusetts General Laws
          > Chapter
          > > 71,
          > > > > sec. 82 grants broader rights to public secondary school schools
          > > regarding
          > > > > Rights of Students to Freedom of Expression. It states:
          > > > >
          > > > > Chapter 71: Section 82. Public secondary schools; right of
          > students
          > > to
          > > > > freedom of expression; limitations; definitions
          > > > >
          > > > > Section 82. The right of students to freedom of expression in
          > the
          > > public
          > > > > schools of the commonwealth shall not be abridged, provided that
          > such
          > > right
          > > > > shall not cause any disruption or disorder within the school.
          > Freedom
          > > of
          > > > > expression shall include without limitation, the rights and
          > > responsibilities
          > > > > of students, collectively and individually, (a) to express their
          > views
          > > > > through speech and symbols, (b) to write, publish and disseminate
          > > their
          > > > > views, (c) to assemble peaceably on school property for the
          > purpose of
          > > > > expressing their opinions. Any assembly planned by students during
          > > regularly
          > > > > scheduled school hours shall be held only at a time and place
          > approved
          > > in
          > > > > advance by the school principal or his designee. No expression
          > made by
          > > > > students in the exercise of such rights shall be deemed to be an
          > > expression
          > > > > of school policy and no school officials shall be held responsible
          > in
          > > any
          > > > > civil or criminal action for any expression made or published by
          > the
          > > > > students. For the purposes of this section and sections
          > eighty-three
          > > to
          > > > > eighty-five, inclusive, the word student shall mean any person
          > > attending a
          > > > > public secondary school in the commonwealth. The word school
          > official
          > > shall
          > > > > mean any member or employee of the local school committee.
          > > > >
          > > > > The result is students in the public secondary schools of the
          > > Commonwealth
          > > > > of Massachusetts are only held to the "Tinker" standard regarding
          > > Freedom of
          > > > > Expression.
          > > > >
          > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_rights
          > > > >
          > > > > if you are interested in coming to a board of ed public forum and
          > > presenting
          > > > > 3 minutes on the need for a student bill of rights, at the next
          > board
          > > > > meeting i would attempt to add discussion of a student bill of
          > rights
          > > to the
          > > > > agenda (note that i don't expect much support from the current
          > board,
          > > but, i
          > > > > could be pleasantly surprised).
          > > > >
          > > > > also, feel free to use "mr. dyer" but "allen" is my preferrence.
          > > > >
          > > > > allen
          > > > >
          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > >
          > > > > From: pamythompson
          > > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:50 PM
          > > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Mr. Dyer
          > > > >
          > > > > I would like to see what you have collected on this project
          > so
          > > far as
          > > > > well as other ideas that you are pursueing on behalf of our
          > children
          > > if
          > > > > posible .
          > > > >
          > > > > Jack
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson"
          > > <pamythompson@>
          > > > > wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > STATEWIDE STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > as citizens don't have the ability to censor our opponents,
          > fire
          > > our
          > > > > critics,
          > > > > > and arrest those who disagree with us, but, we do have the
          > > > > constitutional
          > > > > > right to demonstrate.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > the truth cannot prevail unless the truth is heard
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > 10 years , I close my eyes , 10 years , where was I ?
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Well Mr. Dyer , sorry I missed you back then . What do you
          > have on
          > > this
          > > > > project so far ?
          > > > > >
          > > > > > jack
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > ------------------------------------
          > > > >
          > > > > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original
          > > messages
          > > > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster
          > states
          > > > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain
          > > their
          > > > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original
          > messages
          > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
          > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain their
          > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original messages
          > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
          > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain their
          > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
        • pamythompson
          dean v utica applies student newspapers that are operated as a limited ... Allen , Let me get back on track here . The forum at the beginning of the BOE
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 1, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            dean v utica applies student newspapers that are operated as a limited
            > public forum. i don't think the presence of parents at school, by itself,
            > qualifies as a limited public forum. in contrast, the forum at the
            > beginning of regularly scheduled board meetings, in my opinion, constitutes
            > a limited public forum. allen
            >

            Allen ,

            Let me get back on track here .


            The forum at the beginning of the BOE meeting is a non public forum as are all school forums however it was made to be limited . Regardless of the type of forum ,any exclusion must be done on a viewpoint neutral basis. Exclusion based on the speaker's viewpoint is unconstitutional. Therefor if the BOE "has ever heard" one side then the other side has a right to speak even though the content has been restricted .

            What we then are seeking is to have an open public forum or at the very least a designated public forum in the school . The school recognizes open public forum and it is aware that freedom of speech exists between parents at school events such as sports , music or arts and other events . Whereas open public forums can not be made non public except where expression is incompatible with the normal activity of a given place at a certain time. There is no reasonable excuse that an open public meeting could not be granted at a regular and specific time in our schools . Further it is unreasonable for a gathering of parents , students and community members under the first amendment to shed that right as they walk from the streets into a school event and the schools recognize this . Therefor it is unreasonable to exclude an open meeting at school at a reasonable time .

            Jack

            --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: pamythompson
            > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 2:31 AM
            > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
            >
            >
            > Allen ,
            >
            > What about Dean v. Utica >
            >
            > dean v utica applies student newspapers that are operated as a limited
            > public forum. i don't think the presence of parents at school, by itself,
            > qualifies as a limited public forum. in contrast, the forum at the
            > beginning of regularly scheduled board meetings, in my opinion, constitutes
            > a limited public forum. allen
            >
            >
            > I believe that we as parents have a right to both gather at our schools
            > as well as freedom of speech . Our children are then under our supervision
            > and therefor in loco parentis does not apply . In this situation our
            > children then have full rights . The decision of Dean v. Utica does not
            > allow school officials to censor wantonly or based on personal opinion .
            >
            > I would like to form a parents cluster for each of our high schools and
            > their feeder schools in an effort to fully participate in our childrens
            > education .
            >
            > if you plan on using school facilities after the end of the school day, i
            > believe you are removed sufficiently from the direct authority/sponsorship
            > of the principal so that your parent/student group would have full first
            > amendment rights - including religious speech. Westside School District v.
            > Mergens, 496 U.S. 226 (1990)
            >
            > use of after school facilities (scheduling, fees, etc) is covered by policy
            > 10020 -- excerpt re: who can use
            >
            > School buildings and grounds may be used for education, civic, social,
            > religious, and recreational activities by nonprofit organizations for such
            > nonprofit activities described above in this policy within Howard County.
            > However, profit making organizations may be permitted to use school
            > facilities for nonprofit activities such as: athletic programs, fund-raising
            > activities for charitable purposes, and employee-related activities.
            >
            >
            > allen
            >
            >
            >
            > Jack
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
            > >
            > > jack,
            > >
            > > access to the schools is controlled by any "authorized employee" under
            > > procedures established by the "building administrator."
            > > see policy 3020 http://www.hcpss.org/board/policies/3020.pdf
            > >
            > > re: students accompanied by a parent having "full rights" -- i believe
            > > "hazelwood" would still apply so long as the child is on school
            > property.
            > >
            > > allen
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: pamythompson
            > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:35 AM
            > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
            > >
            > >
            > > Since the school system confirms that the parent is the child's
            > primary
            > > educator and therefor we should have a right to access . Then we as
            > parents
            > > should be allowed to gather as a group at the school {periodically) and
            > > discuss any issue pertaining to our children and at these meetings our
            > > children would have full rights .
            > >
            > > Would I be correst in these assumptions ?
            > >
            > > Jack
            > >
            > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Mr. Allen Dyer
            > > >
            > > > I believe stems from a teaching of respect I recieved as a child
            > .
            > > >
            > > > Participation in governance of the institution by students ,
            > perhaps
            > > delves beyond freedom of speech , the right of every being to have a
            > voice
            > > in and therefor participate in their own destiny . The parents
            > obligation to
            > > listen , that nurturing through communication is essential to their
            > > education . In the parents absence the child must develope these
            > abilities .
            > > If our educational systems are to assume the role of parent then that
            > > respect to the child must be preserved .
            > > >
            > > > I will give much thought to what you have presented
            > > >
            > > > Jack
            > > >
            > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > jack,
            > > > >
            > > > > i have not collected any recent ideas re: a student bill of rights
            > but
            > > i
            > > > > have long supported legislatively overturning hazelwood and
            > restoring
            > > full
            > > > > tinker rights using the massachusetts general laws, chap 71, sec
            > 82,
            > > student
            > > > > bill of rights approach:
            > > > >
            > > > > In addition to the United States Constitution granting Freedom
            > of
            > > > > Expression Rights to public school students, some state
            > constitutions
            > > afford
            > > > > greater rights to public school students than those granted by the
            > > United
            > > > > States Constitution. For example, Massachusetts General Laws
            > Chapter
            > > 71,
            > > > > sec. 82 grants broader rights to public secondary school schools
            > > regarding
            > > > > Rights of Students to Freedom of Expression. It states:
            > > > >
            > > > > Chapter 71: Section 82. Public secondary schools; right of
            > students
            > > to
            > > > > freedom of expression; limitations; definitions
            > > > >
            > > > > Section 82. The right of students to freedom of expression in
            > the
            > > public
            > > > > schools of the commonwealth shall not be abridged, provided that
            > such
            > > right
            > > > > shall not cause any disruption or disorder within the school.
            > Freedom
            > > of
            > > > > expression shall include without limitation, the rights and
            > > responsibilities
            > > > > of students, collectively and individually, (a) to express their
            > views
            > > > > through speech and symbols, (b) to write, publish and disseminate
            > > their
            > > > > views, (c) to assemble peaceably on school property for the
            > purpose of
            > > > > expressing their opinions. Any assembly planned by students during
            > > regularly
            > > > > scheduled school hours shall be held only at a time and place
            > approved
            > > in
            > > > > advance by the school principal or his designee. No expression
            > made by
            > > > > students in the exercise of such rights shall be deemed to be an
            > > expression
            > > > > of school policy and no school officials shall be held responsible
            > in
            > > any
            > > > > civil or criminal action for any expression made or published by
            > the
            > > > > students. For the purposes of this section and sections
            > eighty-three
            > > to
            > > > > eighty-five, inclusive, the word student shall mean any person
            > > attending a
            > > > > public secondary school in the commonwealth. The word school
            > official
            > > shall
            > > > > mean any member or employee of the local school committee.
            > > > >
            > > > > The result is students in the public secondary schools of the
            > > Commonwealth
            > > > > of Massachusetts are only held to the "Tinker" standard regarding
            > > Freedom of
            > > > > Expression.
            > > > >
            > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_rights
            > > > >
            > > > > if you are interested in coming to a board of ed public forum and
            > > presenting
            > > > > 3 minutes on the need for a student bill of rights, at the next
            > board
            > > > > meeting i would attempt to add discussion of a student bill of
            > rights
            > > to the
            > > > > agenda (note that i don't expect much support from the current
            > board,
            > > but, i
            > > > > could be pleasantly surprised).
            > > > >
            > > > > also, feel free to use "mr. dyer" but "allen" is my preferrence.
            > > > >
            > > > > allen
            > > > >
            > > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > >
            > > > > From: pamythompson
            > > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:50 PM
            > > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Mr. Dyer
            > > > >
            > > > > I would like to see what you have collected on this project
            > so
            > > far as
            > > > > well as other ideas that you are pursueing on behalf of our
            > children
            > > if
            > > > > posible .
            > > > >
            > > > > Jack
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson"
            > > <pamythompson@>
            > > > > wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > STATEWIDE STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > as citizens don't have the ability to censor our opponents,
            > fire
            > > our
            > > > > critics,
            > > > > > and arrest those who disagree with us, but, we do have the
            > > > > constitutional
            > > > > > right to demonstrate.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > the truth cannot prevail unless the truth is heard
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > 10 years , I close my eyes , 10 years , where was I ?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Well Mr. Dyer , sorry I missed you back then . What do you
            > have on
            > > this
            > > > > project so far ?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > jack
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > ------------------------------------
            > > > >
            > > > > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original
            > > messages
            > > > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster
            > states
            > > > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain
            > > their
            > > > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original
            > messages
            > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
            > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain their
            > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original messages
            > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
            > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain their
            > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
          • pamythompson
            Allen , As I thought about this schools allowing freedom of speech , recognizing it s esistance and making no attempt to censor it between parents , students
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 1, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Allen ,

              As I thought about this schools allowing freedom of speech , recognizing it's esistance and making no attempt to censor it between parents , students and the community has long been a tradition of freedom of expression in our schools . In fact one may say that it is encouraged as part of a good time to which the sclool benefits in both ticket and concession sales at it's events . Therefor by practice the schools have opened their facilities . Further a parents group would not fall under Hazelwood because it is not part of the school curriculum .

              To continue to defer such requests or cases to the school system only encourages censorship which would be protected by the "Tinker" standard . The BOE as ellected officials have a responsibility to set precedent here albeit persuasive .

              "In Hazelwood , the Supreme Court determined that a high school newspaper produced as part of a journalism class was not a public forum. Citing Perry, the Court wrote: "Hence, school facilities may be deemed to be public forums only if school authorities have 'by policy or practice' opened those facilities for 'indiscriminate use by the general public,' or by some segment of the public ."

              Jack

              --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@...> wrote:
              >
              > dean v utica applies student newspapers that are operated as a limited
              > > public forum. i don't think the presence of parents at school, by itself,
              > > qualifies as a limited public forum. in contrast, the forum at the
              > > beginning of regularly scheduled board meetings, in my opinion, constitutes
              > > a limited public forum. allen
              > >
              >
              > Allen ,
              >
              > Let me get back on track here .
              >
              >
              > The forum at the beginning of the BOE meeting is a non public forum as are all school forums however it was made to be limited . Regardless of the type of forum ,any exclusion must be done on a viewpoint neutral basis. Exclusion based on the speaker's viewpoint is unconstitutional. Therefor if the BOE "has ever heard" one side then the other side has a right to speak even though the content has been restricted .
              >
              > What we then are seeking is to have an open public forum or at the very least a designated public forum in the school . The school recognizes open public forum and it is aware that freedom of speech exists between parents at school events such as sports , music or arts and other events . Whereas open public forums can not be made non public except where expression is incompatible with the normal activity of a given place at a certain time. There is no reasonable excuse that an open public meeting could not be granted at a regular and specific time in our schools . Further it is unreasonable for a gathering of parents , students and community members under the first amendment to shed that right as they walk from the streets into a school event and the schools recognize this . Therefor it is unreasonable to exclude an open meeting at school at a reasonable time .
              >
              > Jack
              >
              > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: pamythompson
              > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 2:31 AM
              > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
              > >
              > >
              > > Allen ,
              > >
              > > What about Dean v. Utica >
              > >
              > > dean v utica applies student newspapers that are operated as a limited
              > > public forum. i don't think the presence of parents at school, by itself,
              > > qualifies as a limited public forum. in contrast, the forum at the
              > > beginning of regularly scheduled board meetings, in my opinion, constitutes
              > > a limited public forum. allen
              > >
              > >
              > > I believe that we as parents have a right to both gather at our schools
              > > as well as freedom of speech . Our children are then under our supervision
              > > and therefor in loco parentis does not apply . In this situation our
              > > children then have full rights . The decision of Dean v. Utica does not
              > > allow school officials to censor wantonly or based on personal opinion .
              > >
              > > I would like to form a parents cluster for each of our high schools and
              > > their feeder schools in an effort to fully participate in our childrens
              > > education .
              > >
              > > if you plan on using school facilities after the end of the school day, i
              > > believe you are removed sufficiently from the direct authority/sponsorship
              > > of the principal so that your parent/student group would have full first
              > > amendment rights - including religious speech. Westside School District v.
              > > Mergens, 496 U.S. 226 (1990)
              > >
              > > use of after school facilities (scheduling, fees, etc) is covered by policy
              > > 10020 -- excerpt re: who can use
              > >
              > > School buildings and grounds may be used for education, civic, social,
              > > religious, and recreational activities by nonprofit organizations for such
              > > nonprofit activities described above in this policy within Howard County.
              > > However, profit making organizations may be permitted to use school
              > > facilities for nonprofit activities such as: athletic programs, fund-raising
              > > activities for charitable purposes, and employee-related activities.
              > >
              > >
              > > allen
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Jack
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > jack,
              > > >
              > > > access to the schools is controlled by any "authorized employee" under
              > > > procedures established by the "building administrator."
              > > > see policy 3020 http://www.hcpss.org/board/policies/3020.pdf
              > > >
              > > > re: students accompanied by a parent having "full rights" -- i believe
              > > > "hazelwood" would still apply so long as the child is on school
              > > property.
              > > >
              > > > allen
              > > >
              > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > From: pamythompson
              > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:35 AM
              > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Since the school system confirms that the parent is the child's
              > > primary
              > > > educator and therefor we should have a right to access . Then we as
              > > parents
              > > > should be allowed to gather as a group at the school {periodically) and
              > > > discuss any issue pertaining to our children and at these meetings our
              > > > children would have full rights .
              > > >
              > > > Would I be correst in these assumptions ?
              > > >
              > > > Jack
              > > >
              > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@>
              > > > wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Mr. Allen Dyer
              > > > >
              > > > > I believe stems from a teaching of respect I recieved as a child
              > > .
              > > > >
              > > > > Participation in governance of the institution by students ,
              > > perhaps
              > > > delves beyond freedom of speech , the right of every being to have a
              > > voice
              > > > in and therefor participate in their own destiny . The parents
              > > obligation to
              > > > listen , that nurturing through communication is essential to their
              > > > education . In the parents absence the child must develope these
              > > abilities .
              > > > If our educational systems are to assume the role of parent then that
              > > > respect to the child must be preserved .
              > > > >
              > > > > I will give much thought to what you have presented
              > > > >
              > > > > Jack
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > jack,
              > > > > >
              > > > > > i have not collected any recent ideas re: a student bill of rights
              > > but
              > > > i
              > > > > > have long supported legislatively overturning hazelwood and
              > > restoring
              > > > full
              > > > > > tinker rights using the massachusetts general laws, chap 71, sec
              > > 82,
              > > > student
              > > > > > bill of rights approach:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > In addition to the United States Constitution granting Freedom
              > > of
              > > > > > Expression Rights to public school students, some state
              > > constitutions
              > > > afford
              > > > > > greater rights to public school students than those granted by the
              > > > United
              > > > > > States Constitution. For example, Massachusetts General Laws
              > > Chapter
              > > > 71,
              > > > > > sec. 82 grants broader rights to public secondary school schools
              > > > regarding
              > > > > > Rights of Students to Freedom of Expression. It states:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Chapter 71: Section 82. Public secondary schools; right of
              > > students
              > > > to
              > > > > > freedom of expression; limitations; definitions
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Section 82. The right of students to freedom of expression in
              > > the
              > > > public
              > > > > > schools of the commonwealth shall not be abridged, provided that
              > > such
              > > > right
              > > > > > shall not cause any disruption or disorder within the school.
              > > Freedom
              > > > of
              > > > > > expression shall include without limitation, the rights and
              > > > responsibilities
              > > > > > of students, collectively and individually, (a) to express their
              > > views
              > > > > > through speech and symbols, (b) to write, publish and disseminate
              > > > their
              > > > > > views, (c) to assemble peaceably on school property for the
              > > purpose of
              > > > > > expressing their opinions. Any assembly planned by students during
              > > > regularly
              > > > > > scheduled school hours shall be held only at a time and place
              > > approved
              > > > in
              > > > > > advance by the school principal or his designee. No expression
              > > made by
              > > > > > students in the exercise of such rights shall be deemed to be an
              > > > expression
              > > > > > of school policy and no school officials shall be held responsible
              > > in
              > > > any
              > > > > > civil or criminal action for any expression made or published by
              > > the
              > > > > > students. For the purposes of this section and sections
              > > eighty-three
              > > > to
              > > > > > eighty-five, inclusive, the word student shall mean any person
              > > > attending a
              > > > > > public secondary school in the commonwealth. The word school
              > > official
              > > > shall
              > > > > > mean any member or employee of the local school committee.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > The result is students in the public secondary schools of the
              > > > Commonwealth
              > > > > > of Massachusetts are only held to the "Tinker" standard regarding
              > > > Freedom of
              > > > > > Expression.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_rights
              > > > > >
              > > > > > if you are interested in coming to a board of ed public forum and
              > > > presenting
              > > > > > 3 minutes on the need for a student bill of rights, at the next
              > > board
              > > > > > meeting i would attempt to add discussion of a student bill of
              > > rights
              > > > to the
              > > > > > agenda (note that i don't expect much support from the current
              > > board,
              > > > but, i
              > > > > > could be pleasantly surprised).
              > > > > >
              > > > > > also, feel free to use "mr. dyer" but "allen" is my preferrence.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > allen
              > > > > >
              > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > > >
              > > > > > From: pamythompson
              > > > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:50 PM
              > > > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Mr. Dyer
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I would like to see what you have collected on this project
              > > so
              > > > far as
              > > > > > well as other ideas that you are pursueing on behalf of our
              > > children
              > > > if
              > > > > > posible .
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Jack
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson"
              > > > <pamythompson@>
              > > > > > wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > STATEWIDE STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > as citizens don't have the ability to censor our opponents,
              > > fire
              > > > our
              > > > > > critics,
              > > > > > > and arrest those who disagree with us, but, we do have the
              > > > > > constitutional
              > > > > > > right to demonstrate.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > the truth cannot prevail unless the truth is heard
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > 10 years , I close my eyes , 10 years , where was I ?
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Well Mr. Dyer , sorry I missed you back then . What do you
              > > have on
              > > > this
              > > > > > project so far ?
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > jack
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > ------------------------------------
              > > > > >
              > > > > > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original
              > > > messages
              > > > > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster
              > > states
              > > > > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain
              > > > their
              > > > > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------------------
              > > >
              > > > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original
              > > messages
              > > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
              > > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain their
              > > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original messages
              > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
              > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain their
              > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              >
            • pamythompson
              Perry Education Association v. Perry Local Educators Association Allen , After reading the above as well as cases cited within I can honestly say that I feel
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 1, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Perry Education Association v. Perry Local Educators' Association

                Allen ,

                After reading the above as well as cases cited within I can honestly say that I feel for you . So the real question is who in the school system would honestly know what is allowed ? They would probably discuss this question with the in house attorney with a high probability that the answer leaned in favor of the currently run school system . Which brings me way back . If the HCPSS is to employ an attorney it should be for the benefit of the students foremost . But then who am I to say that this is not currently the case .

                Jack

                --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@...> wrote:
                >
                > Allen ,
                >
                > As I thought about this schools allowing freedom of speech , recognizing it's esistance and making no attempt to censor it between parents , students and the community has long been a tradition of freedom of expression in our schools . In fact one may say that it is encouraged as part of a good time to which the sclool benefits in both ticket and concession sales at it's events . Therefor by practice the schools have opened their facilities . Further a parents group would not fall under Hazelwood because it is not part of the school curriculum .
                >
                > To continue to defer such requests or cases to the school system only encourages censorship which would be protected by the "Tinker" standard . The BOE as ellected officials have a responsibility to set precedent here albeit persuasive .
                >
                > "In Hazelwood , the Supreme Court determined that a high school newspaper produced as part of a journalism class was not a public forum. Citing Perry, the Court wrote: "Hence, school facilities may be deemed to be public forums only if school authorities have 'by policy or practice' opened those facilities for 'indiscriminate use by the general public,' or by some segment of the public ."
                >
                > Jack
                >
                > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@> wrote:
                > >
                > > dean v utica applies student newspapers that are operated as a limited
                > > > public forum. i don't think the presence of parents at school, by itself,
                > > > qualifies as a limited public forum. in contrast, the forum at the
                > > > beginning of regularly scheduled board meetings, in my opinion, constitutes
                > > > a limited public forum. allen
                > > >
                > >
                > > Allen ,
                > >
                > > Let me get back on track here .
                > >
                > >
                > > The forum at the beginning of the BOE meeting is a non public forum as are all school forums however it was made to be limited . Regardless of the type of forum ,any exclusion must be done on a viewpoint neutral basis. Exclusion based on the speaker's viewpoint is unconstitutional. Therefor if the BOE "has ever heard" one side then the other side has a right to speak even though the content has been restricted .
                > >
                > > What we then are seeking is to have an open public forum or at the very least a designated public forum in the school . The school recognizes open public forum and it is aware that freedom of speech exists between parents at school events such as sports , music or arts and other events . Whereas open public forums can not be made non public except where expression is incompatible with the normal activity of a given place at a certain time. There is no reasonable excuse that an open public meeting could not be granted at a regular and specific time in our schools . Further it is unreasonable for a gathering of parents , students and community members under the first amendment to shed that right as they walk from the streets into a school event and the schools recognize this . Therefor it is unreasonable to exclude an open meeting at school at a reasonable time .
                > >
                > > Jack
                > >
                > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > From: pamythompson
                > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 2:31 AM
                > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Allen ,
                > > >
                > > > What about Dean v. Utica >
                > > >
                > > > dean v utica applies student newspapers that are operated as a limited
                > > > public forum. i don't think the presence of parents at school, by itself,
                > > > qualifies as a limited public forum. in contrast, the forum at the
                > > > beginning of regularly scheduled board meetings, in my opinion, constitutes
                > > > a limited public forum. allen
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > I believe that we as parents have a right to both gather at our schools
                > > > as well as freedom of speech . Our children are then under our supervision
                > > > and therefor in loco parentis does not apply . In this situation our
                > > > children then have full rights . The decision of Dean v. Utica does not
                > > > allow school officials to censor wantonly or based on personal opinion .
                > > >
                > > > I would like to form a parents cluster for each of our high schools and
                > > > their feeder schools in an effort to fully participate in our childrens
                > > > education .
                > > >
                > > > if you plan on using school facilities after the end of the school day, i
                > > > believe you are removed sufficiently from the direct authority/sponsorship
                > > > of the principal so that your parent/student group would have full first
                > > > amendment rights - including religious speech. Westside School District v.
                > > > Mergens, 496 U.S. 226 (1990)
                > > >
                > > > use of after school facilities (scheduling, fees, etc) is covered by policy
                > > > 10020 -- excerpt re: who can use
                > > >
                > > > School buildings and grounds may be used for education, civic, social,
                > > > religious, and recreational activities by nonprofit organizations for such
                > > > nonprofit activities described above in this policy within Howard County.
                > > > However, profit making organizations may be permitted to use school
                > > > facilities for nonprofit activities such as: athletic programs, fund-raising
                > > > activities for charitable purposes, and employee-related activities.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > allen
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Jack
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > jack,
                > > > >
                > > > > access to the schools is controlled by any "authorized employee" under
                > > > > procedures established by the "building administrator."
                > > > > see policy 3020 http://www.hcpss.org/board/policies/3020.pdf
                > > > >
                > > > > re: students accompanied by a parent having "full rights" -- i believe
                > > > > "hazelwood" would still apply so long as the child is on school
                > > > property.
                > > > >
                > > > > allen
                > > > >
                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > > From: pamythompson
                > > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:35 AM
                > > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Since the school system confirms that the parent is the child's
                > > > primary
                > > > > educator and therefor we should have a right to access . Then we as
                > > > parents
                > > > > should be allowed to gather as a group at the school {periodically) and
                > > > > discuss any issue pertaining to our children and at these meetings our
                > > > > children would have full rights .
                > > > >
                > > > > Would I be correst in these assumptions ?
                > > > >
                > > > > Jack
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@>
                > > > > wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Mr. Allen Dyer
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I believe stems from a teaching of respect I recieved as a child
                > > > .
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Participation in governance of the institution by students ,
                > > > perhaps
                > > > > delves beyond freedom of speech , the right of every being to have a
                > > > voice
                > > > > in and therefor participate in their own destiny . The parents
                > > > obligation to
                > > > > listen , that nurturing through communication is essential to their
                > > > > education . In the parents absence the child must develope these
                > > > abilities .
                > > > > If our educational systems are to assume the role of parent then that
                > > > > respect to the child must be preserved .
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I will give much thought to what you have presented
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Jack
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > jack,
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > i have not collected any recent ideas re: a student bill of rights
                > > > but
                > > > > i
                > > > > > > have long supported legislatively overturning hazelwood and
                > > > restoring
                > > > > full
                > > > > > > tinker rights using the massachusetts general laws, chap 71, sec
                > > > 82,
                > > > > student
                > > > > > > bill of rights approach:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > In addition to the United States Constitution granting Freedom
                > > > of
                > > > > > > Expression Rights to public school students, some state
                > > > constitutions
                > > > > afford
                > > > > > > greater rights to public school students than those granted by the
                > > > > United
                > > > > > > States Constitution. For example, Massachusetts General Laws
                > > > Chapter
                > > > > 71,
                > > > > > > sec. 82 grants broader rights to public secondary school schools
                > > > > regarding
                > > > > > > Rights of Students to Freedom of Expression. It states:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Chapter 71: Section 82. Public secondary schools; right of
                > > > students
                > > > > to
                > > > > > > freedom of expression; limitations; definitions
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Section 82. The right of students to freedom of expression in
                > > > the
                > > > > public
                > > > > > > schools of the commonwealth shall not be abridged, provided that
                > > > such
                > > > > right
                > > > > > > shall not cause any disruption or disorder within the school.
                > > > Freedom
                > > > > of
                > > > > > > expression shall include without limitation, the rights and
                > > > > responsibilities
                > > > > > > of students, collectively and individually, (a) to express their
                > > > views
                > > > > > > through speech and symbols, (b) to write, publish and disseminate
                > > > > their
                > > > > > > views, (c) to assemble peaceably on school property for the
                > > > purpose of
                > > > > > > expressing their opinions. Any assembly planned by students during
                > > > > regularly
                > > > > > > scheduled school hours shall be held only at a time and place
                > > > approved
                > > > > in
                > > > > > > advance by the school principal or his designee. No expression
                > > > made by
                > > > > > > students in the exercise of such rights shall be deemed to be an
                > > > > expression
                > > > > > > of school policy and no school officials shall be held responsible
                > > > in
                > > > > any
                > > > > > > civil or criminal action for any expression made or published by
                > > > the
                > > > > > > students. For the purposes of this section and sections
                > > > eighty-three
                > > > > to
                > > > > > > eighty-five, inclusive, the word student shall mean any person
                > > > > attending a
                > > > > > > public secondary school in the commonwealth. The word school
                > > > official
                > > > > shall
                > > > > > > mean any member or employee of the local school committee.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > The result is students in the public secondary schools of the
                > > > > Commonwealth
                > > > > > > of Massachusetts are only held to the "Tinker" standard regarding
                > > > > Freedom of
                > > > > > > Expression.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_rights
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > if you are interested in coming to a board of ed public forum and
                > > > > presenting
                > > > > > > 3 minutes on the need for a student bill of rights, at the next
                > > > board
                > > > > > > meeting i would attempt to add discussion of a student bill of
                > > > rights
                > > > > to the
                > > > > > > agenda (note that i don't expect much support from the current
                > > > board,
                > > > > but, i
                > > > > > > could be pleasantly surprised).
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > also, feel free to use "mr. dyer" but "allen" is my preferrence.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > allen
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > From: pamythompson
                > > > > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:50 PM
                > > > > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Mr. Dyer
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > I would like to see what you have collected on this project
                > > > so
                > > > > far as
                > > > > > > well as other ideas that you are pursueing on behalf of our
                > > > children
                > > > > if
                > > > > > > posible .
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Jack
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson"
                > > > > <pamythompson@>
                > > > > > > wrote:
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > STATEWIDE STUDENT BILL OF RIGHTS.
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > as citizens don't have the ability to censor our opponents,
                > > > fire
                > > > > our
                > > > > > > critics,
                > > > > > > > and arrest those who disagree with us, but, we do have the
                > > > > > > constitutional
                > > > > > > > right to demonstrate.
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > the truth cannot prevail unless the truth is heard
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > 10 years , I close my eyes , 10 years , where was I ?
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > Well Mr. Dyer , sorry I missed you back then . What do you
                > > > have on
                > > > > this
                > > > > > > project so far ?
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > jack
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > ------------------------------------
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original
                > > > > messages
                > > > > > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster
                > > > states
                > > > > > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain
                > > > > their
                > > > > > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > ------------------------------------
                > > > >
                > > > > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original
                > > > messages
                > > > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
                > > > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain their
                > > > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ------------------------------------
                > > >
                > > > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original messages
                > > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
                > > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain their
                > > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > >
                >
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