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Shirking comes to mind

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  • pamythompson
    A family moves into Maryland , perhaps Howard county , perhaps even to the very community where his/her family has lived for generations . Because of hardship
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 4, 2010
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      A family moves into Maryland , perhaps Howard county , perhaps even to the very community where his/her family has lived for generations . Because of hardship or even instability in his/her life , relocations , transfering to diferent schools or even the diference in state laws . These children find themselves in a unique situation where they are denied credit and grouped with children much younger even though their life experiences dictates otherwise . Perhaps the requirements here will place them in a situation where they turn 21 before they can graduate . These children are forced into a situation through no fault of their own where an education is not attainable .

      Why don't we do more to get these children the education they are entitled to instead of forcing them into a situation which increases the liklihood that one day their children are offered the same choices in life .

      Jack
    • cynthia vaillancourt
      Jack,Please be specific and direct about what this situation is -- I, for one, cannot process the riddles. It sounds like some kids have been transferred into
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 5, 2010
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        Jack,
        Please be specific and direct about what this situation is -- I, for one, cannot process the riddles.

        It sounds like some kids have been transferred into hcpss and are being "placed" in grades significantly behind their chronological age ... which you fear will cause them to drop out of school altogether?

        What grades are we talking about?  What ages?  Were they in school somewhere else or being homeschooled, or not being schooled at all?  How were the placements determined?  Were they tested?  Did the testing seem unfair?  Arre they able to do the work at the appropriate age level?    

        Cindy V


        To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
        From: pamythompson@...
        Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:41:34 +0000
        Subject: [howardpubliced] Shirking comes to mind

         
        A family moves into Maryland , perhaps Howard county , perhaps even to the very community where his/her family has lived for generations . Because of hardship or even instability in his/her life , relocations , transfering to diferent schools or even the diference in state laws . These children find themselves in a unique situation where they are denied credit and grouped with children much younger even though their life experiences dictates otherwise . Perhaps the requirements here will place them in a situation where they turn 21 before they can graduate . These children are forced into a situation through no fault of their own where an education is not attainable .

        Why don't we do more to get these children the education they are entitled to instead of forcing them into a situation which increases the liklihood that one day their children are offered the same choices in life .

        Jack




        Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.
      • pamythompson
        That disconected thought process and riddles ..... I was thinking how quiet it was here at Howardpubliced and it disturbed me because the public school system
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 5, 2010
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          That disconected thought process and riddles ..... I was thinking how quiet it was here at Howardpubliced and it disturbed me because the public school system has a monopoly on education . I was thinking how the HCPSS warned me that they would scrutinize everything I say . I was thinking about a discussion I had the other day where HCPSS was not going to accept all a child's credits from Florida and the sadness expressed by this child that would not graduate . I was thinking about his fathers voice as he searched for ideas to lessen the impact and beter his child's future . I think that the HCPSS is not doing all it can for this child .

          I am thinking of another child that just moved to Maryland from North Carolina , just over the line to Carroll county , kids had a hard life . North Carolina is going to allow this kid who spent last semester in the 8th grade to proceed this semester to the 9nth grade and nest year be back on track in the 10nth grade . Carroll county will either place him in the 8th grade which is a few years below his age or send him to Gateway for a semester and then place him in the 10nth grade nest year .

          Gateway ...We had a student at Glenelg last year who got suspended for a month but really not a bad kid . They told this child to do a semester at Gateway and return in 09 and that would put this child back on track . Gateway was not a good place for this child and life worsened . Child recieved a schedule in the mail and showed up at Glenelg this fall , 15 minutes later they removed this child from Glenelg and sent this child back to Gateway . Attending Gateway had such a negative effect on this child that the decision to drop out was the best option .

          The other day an administrator said they hate to see a child fall through the cracks . Perhaps they think slaming the door in their face is preferable .

          You know that you can actually fail the 8th grade in Howard county and proceed on to the 9nth grade .

          Thought process and Riddles

          Ms Vaillancourt you ask a lot of good questions , we could use people like you at the BOE demanding answers .

          Jack


          --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Jack,Please be specific and direct about what this situation is -- I, for one, cannot process the riddles.
          > It sounds like some kids have been transferred into hcpss and are being "placed" in grades significantly behind their chronological age ... which you fear will cause them to drop out of school altogether?
          > What grades are we talking about? What ages? Were they in school somewhere else or being homeschooled, or not being schooled at all? How were the placements determined? Were they tested? Did the testing seem unfair? Arre they able to do the work at the appropriate age level?
          > Cindy V
          > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
          > From: pamythompson@...
          > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:41:34 +0000
          > Subject: [howardpubliced] Shirking comes to mind
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          > A family moves into Maryland , perhaps Howard county , perhaps even to the very community where his/her family has lived for generations . Because of hardship or even instability in his/her life , relocations , transfering to diferent schools or even the diference in state laws . These children find themselves in a unique situation where they are denied credit and grouped with children much younger even though their life experiences dictates otherwise . Perhaps the requirements here will place them in a situation where they turn 21 before they can graduate . These children are forced into a situation through no fault of their own where an education is not attainable .
          >
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          > Why don't we do more to get these children the education they are entitled to instead of forcing them into a situation which increases the liklihood that one day their children are offered the same choices in life .
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          > Jack
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          > _________________________________________________________________
          > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
          > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
          >
        • im4therecord
          Good Morning and Happy New Year and New Decade! I have family in Florida, some of whom are teachers. My niece teaches in a school where 85% of the population
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 6, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Good Morning and Happy New Year and New Decade!

            I have family in Florida, some of whom are teachers. My niece teaches in a school where 85% of the population doesn't speak English and come from home environments that are, to put it mildly, rough. Perhaps one of the reasons this child is being held back is to allow them the opportunity to catch up to his peers here in Maryland. I'm not saying that our schools are perfect, they are far from perfect, but to simply place a child in a grade based on age rather than ability would be more harmful than not having them graduate on time. Frustration, lack of understanding and the potential for failure are greater obstacles to graduation than being older than your graduating class.

            Gateway only serves HoCo kids, so the kid from Carroll county wouldn't be going there. If you understood the mission and purpose of the Gateway school you'd understand why kids are sent there. The goal is to give them the extra services they need to help them succeed in their home schools. No one graduates from Gateway, they graduate with their home school peers. None of the kids that go there are "bad" kids, they are kids in crisis. Most of the kids have emotional issues, truancy issues or problems with aggression. They are not kids in trouble with the law, those kids are in Juvenal dentition centers. I know several kids who attended Gateway, they and their families got the extra attention and services they needed and were able to transition back to their home schools successfully. One of those kids graduated from Glenelg.

            BTW: no child is sent to Gateway without a comprehensive evaluation by a panel of psychologist, counselors and administrators. Every placement has to be approved by the central office before it's finalized. There are very specific rules and criteria that have to be met in order for a child to be placed there. It's not up to one person, one administrator or one counselor. Moreover, parents can also refuse the placement and fight the findings.

            I agree with Ms Vaillancourt, if you want to start a conversation then pose a fact pattern that can be followed. Or, start your posting with Riddle me this, Riddle me that batman...

            Mary

            --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@...> wrote:
            >
            > That disconected thought process and riddles ..... I was thinking how quiet it was here at Howardpubliced and it disturbed me because the public school system has a monopoly on education . I was thinking how the HCPSS warned me that they would scrutinize everything I say . I was thinking about a discussion I had the other day where HCPSS was not going to accept all a child's credits from Florida and the sadness expressed by this child that would not graduate . I was thinking about his fathers voice as he searched for ideas to lessen the impact and beter his child's future . I think that the HCPSS is not doing all it can for this child .
            >
            > I am thinking of another child that just moved to Maryland from North Carolina , just over the line to Carroll county , kids had a hard life . North Carolina is going to allow this kid who spent last semester in the 8th grade to proceed this semester to the 9nth grade and nest year be back on track in the 10nth grade . Carroll county will either place him in the 8th grade which is a few years below his age or send him to Gateway for a semester and then place him in the 10nth grade nest year .
            >
            > Gateway ...We had a student at Glenelg last year who got suspended for a month but really not a bad kid . They told this child to do a semester at Gateway and return in 09 and that would put this child back on track . Gateway was not a good place for this child and life worsened . Child recieved a schedule in the mail and showed up at Glenelg this fall , 15 minutes later they removed this child from Glenelg and sent this child back to Gateway . Attending Gateway had such a negative effect on this child that the decision to drop out was the best option .
            >
            > The other day an administrator said they hate to see a child fall through the cracks . Perhaps they think slaming the door in their face is preferable .
            >
            > You know that you can actually fail the 8th grade in Howard county and proceed on to the 9nth grade .
            >
            > Thought process and Riddles
            >
            > Ms Vaillancourt you ask a lot of good questions , we could use people like you at the BOE demanding answers .
            >
            > Jack
            >
            >
            > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Jack,Please be specific and direct about what this situation is -- I, for one, cannot process the riddles.
            > > It sounds like some kids have been transferred into hcpss and are being "placed" in grades significantly behind their chronological age ... which you fear will cause them to drop out of school altogether?
            > > What grades are we talking about? What ages? Were they in school somewhere else or being homeschooled, or not being schooled at all? How were the placements determined? Were they tested? Did the testing seem unfair? Arre they able to do the work at the appropriate age level?
            > > Cindy V
            > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
            > > From: pamythompson@
            > > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:41:34 +0000
            > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Shirking comes to mind
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            > > A family moves into Maryland , perhaps Howard county , perhaps even to the very community where his/her family has lived for generations . Because of hardship or even instability in his/her life , relocations , transfering to diferent schools or even the diference in state laws . These children find themselves in a unique situation where they are denied credit and grouped with children much younger even though their life experiences dictates otherwise . Perhaps the requirements here will place them in a situation where they turn 21 before they can graduate . These children are forced into a situation through no fault of their own where an education is not attainable .
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Why don't we do more to get these children the education they are entitled to instead of forcing them into a situation which increases the liklihood that one day their children are offered the same choices in life .
            > >
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            > > Jack
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            > >
            > > _________________________________________________________________
            > > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
            > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
            > >
            >
          • pamythompson
            Riddle me this Bat Women http://community.carr.org/fullrecord.asp?record=567 I lope the link to Carroll county Gateway school works for you Stay tooned Jack
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 6, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Riddle me this Bat Women

              http://community.carr.org/fullrecord.asp?record=567

              I lope the link to Carroll county Gateway school works for you

              Stay tooned

              Jack

              --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "im4therecord" <im4therecord@...> wrote:
              >
              > Good Morning and Happy New Year and New Decade!
              >
              > I have family in Florida, some of whom are teachers. My niece teaches in a school where 85% of the population doesn't speak English and come from home environments that are, to put it mildly, rough. Perhaps one of the reasons this child is being held back is to allow them the opportunity to catch up to his peers here in Maryland. I'm not saying that our schools are perfect, they are far from perfect, but to simply place a child in a grade based on age rather than ability would be more harmful than not having them graduate on time. Frustration, lack of understanding and the potential for failure are greater obstacles to graduation than being older than your graduating class.
              >
              > Gateway only serves HoCo kids, so the kid from Carroll county wouldn't be going there. If you understood the mission and purpose of the Gateway school you'd understand why kids are sent there. The goal is to give them the extra services they need to help them succeed in their home schools. No one graduates from Gateway, they graduate with their home school peers. None of the kids that go there are "bad" kids, they are kids in crisis. Most of the kids have emotional issues, truancy issues or problems with aggression. They are not kids in trouble with the law, those kids are in Juvenal dentition centers. I know several kids who attended Gateway, they and their families got the extra attention and services they needed and were able to transition back to their home schools successfully. One of those kids graduated from Glenelg.
              >
              > BTW: no child is sent to Gateway without a comprehensive evaluation by a panel of psychologist, counselors and administrators. Every placement has to be approved by the central office before it's finalized. There are very specific rules and criteria that have to be met in order for a child to be placed there. It's not up to one person, one administrator or one counselor. Moreover, parents can also refuse the placement and fight the findings.
              >
              > I agree with Ms Vaillancourt, if you want to start a conversation then pose a fact pattern that can be followed. Or, start your posting with Riddle me this, Riddle me that batman...
              >
              > Mary
              >
              > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@> wrote:
              > >
              > > That disconected thought process and riddles ..... I was thinking how quiet it was here at Howardpubliced and it disturbed me because the public school system has a monopoly on education . I was thinking how the HCPSS warned me that they would scrutinize everything I say . I was thinking about a discussion I had the other day where HCPSS was not going to accept all a child's credits from Florida and the sadness expressed by this child that would not graduate . I was thinking about his fathers voice as he searched for ideas to lessen the impact and beter his child's future . I think that the HCPSS is not doing all it can for this child .
              > >
              > > I am thinking of another child that just moved to Maryland from North Carolina , just over the line to Carroll county , kids had a hard life . North Carolina is going to allow this kid who spent last semester in the 8th grade to proceed this semester to the 9nth grade and nest year be back on track in the 10nth grade . Carroll county will either place him in the 8th grade which is a few years below his age or send him to Gateway for a semester and then place him in the 10nth grade nest year .
              > >
              > > Gateway ...We had a student at Glenelg last year who got suspended for a month but really not a bad kid . They told this child to do a semester at Gateway and return in 09 and that would put this child back on track . Gateway was not a good place for this child and life worsened . Child recieved a schedule in the mail and showed up at Glenelg this fall , 15 minutes later they removed this child from Glenelg and sent this child back to Gateway . Attending Gateway had such a negative effect on this child that the decision to drop out was the best option .
              > >
              > > The other day an administrator said they hate to see a child fall through the cracks . Perhaps they think slaming the door in their face is preferable .
              > >
              > > You know that you can actually fail the 8th grade in Howard county and proceed on to the 9nth grade .
              > >
              > > Thought process and Riddles
              > >
              > > Ms Vaillancourt you ask a lot of good questions , we could use people like you at the BOE demanding answers .
              > >
              > > Jack
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Jack,Please be specific and direct about what this situation is -- I, for one, cannot process the riddles.
              > > > It sounds like some kids have been transferred into hcpss and are being "placed" in grades significantly behind their chronological age ... which you fear will cause them to drop out of school altogether?
              > > > What grades are we talking about? What ages? Were they in school somewhere else or being homeschooled, or not being schooled at all? How were the placements determined? Were they tested? Did the testing seem unfair? Arre they able to do the work at the appropriate age level?
              > > > Cindy V
              > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
              > > > From: pamythompson@
              > > > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:41:34 +0000
              > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Shirking comes to mind
              > > >
              > > >
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              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > A family moves into Maryland , perhaps Howard county , perhaps even to the very community where his/her family has lived for generations . Because of hardship or even instability in his/her life , relocations , transfering to diferent schools or even the diference in state laws . These children find themselves in a unique situation where they are denied credit and grouped with children much younger even though their life experiences dictates otherwise . Perhaps the requirements here will place them in a situation where they turn 21 before they can graduate . These children are forced into a situation through no fault of their own where an education is not attainable .
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Why don't we do more to get these children the education they are entitled to instead of forcing them into a situation which increases the liklihood that one day their children are offered the same choices in life .
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Jack
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              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > _________________________________________________________________
              > > > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
              > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • cynthia vaillancourt
              Jack- there is a Gateway school in HoCo - so I assumed you were referring to it and was confused as to why a Carroll County student would be sent there. I
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 6, 2010
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                Jack-  there is a "Gateway" school in HoCo - so I assumed you were referring to it and was confused as to why a Carroll County student would be sent there.  

                I may be confused on other parts of your post as well - but the thing that jumps out at me is how high the risk is for kids who move to HCPSS schools late in their school careers to be so "behind" and discouraged that they may become drop-out casualties.

                I wonder if there is any kind of formal transition counseling addressing transfer students in later grades who are not on track to graduate  on schedule.

                Does anyone know?

                Cindy V





                To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                From: pamythompson@...
                Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:19:07 +0000
                Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Shirking comes to mind

                 
                Riddle me this Bat Women

                http://community. carr.org/ fullrecord. asp?record= 567

                I lope the link to Carroll county Gateway school works for you

                Stay tooned

                Jack

                --- In howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com, "im4therecord" <im4therecord@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > Good Morning and Happy New Year and New Decade!
                >
                > I have family in Florida, some of whom are teachers. My niece teaches in a school where 85% of the population doesn't speak English and come from home environments that are, to put it mildly, rough. Perhaps one of the reasons this child is being held back is to allow them the opportunity to catch up to his peers here in Maryland. I'm not saying that our schools are perfect, they are far from perfect, but to simply place a child in a grade based on age rather than ability would be more harmful than not having them graduate on time. Frustration, lack of understanding and the potential for failure are greater obstacles to graduation than being older than your graduating class.
                >
                > Gateway only serves HoCo kids, so the kid from Carroll county wouldn't be going there. If you understood the mission and purpose of the Gateway school you'd understand why kids are sent there. The goal is to give them the extra services they need to help them succeed in their home schools. No one graduates from Gateway, they graduate with their home school peers. None of the kids that go there are "bad" kids, they are kids in crisis. Most of the kids have emotional issues, truancy issues or problems with aggression. They are not kids in trouble with the law, those kids are in Juvenal dentition centers. I know several kids who attended Gateway, they and their families got the extra attention and services they needed and were able to transition back to their home schools successfully. One of those kids graduated from Glenelg.
                >
                > BTW: no child is sent to Gateway without a comprehensive evaluation by a panel of psychologist, counselors and administrators. Every placement has to be approved by the central office before it's finalized. There are very specific rules and criteria that have to be met in order for a child to be placed there. It's not up to one person, one administrator or one counselor. Moreover, parents can also refuse the placement and fight the findings.
                >
                > I agree with Ms Vaillancourt, if you want to start a conversation then pose a fact pattern that can be followed. Or, start your posting with Riddle me this, Riddle me that batman...
                >
                > Mary
                >
                > --- In howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@ > wrote:
                > >
                > > That disconected thought process and riddles ..... I was thinking how quiet it was here at Howardpubliced and it disturbed me because the public school system has a monopoly on education . I was thinking how the HCPSS warned me that they would scrutinize everything I say . I was thinking about a discussion I had the other day where HCPSS was not going to accept all a child's credits from Florida and the sadness expressed by this child that would not graduate . I was thinking about his fathers voice as he searched for ideas to lessen the impact and beter his child's future . I think that the HCPSS is not doing all it can for this child .
                > >
                > > I am thinking of another child that just moved to Maryland from North Carolina , just over the line to Carroll county , kids had a hard life . North Carolina is going to allow this kid who spent last semester in the 8th grade to proceed this semester to the 9nth grade and nest year be back on track in the 10nth grade . Carroll county will either place him in the 8th grade which is a few years below his age or send him to Gateway for a semester and then place him in the 10nth grade nest year .
                > >
                > > Gateway ...We had a student at Glenelg last year who got suspended for a month but really not a bad kid . They told this child to do a semester at Gateway and return in 09 and that would put this child back on track . Gateway was not a good place for this child and life worsened . Child recieved a schedule in the mail and showed up at Glenelg this fall , 15 minutes later they removed this child from Glenelg and sent this child back to Gateway . Attending Gateway had such a negative effect on this child that the decision to drop out was the best option .
                > >
                > > The other day an administrator said they hate to see a child fall through the cracks . Perhaps they think slaming the door in their face is preferable .
                > >
                > > You know that you can actually fail the 8th grade in Howard county and proceed on to the 9nth grade .
                > >
                > > Thought process and Riddles
                > >
                > > Ms Vaillancourt you ask a lot of good questions , we could use people like you at the BOE demanding answers .
                > >
                > > Jack
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancour t@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Jack,Please be specific and direct about what this situation is -- I, for one, cannot process the riddles.
                > > > It sounds like some kids have been transferred into hcpss and are being "placed" in grades significantly behind their chronological age ... which you fear will cause them to drop out of school altogether?
                > > > What grades are we talking about? What ages? Were they in school somewhere else or being homeschooled, or not being schooled at all? How were the placements determined? Were they tested? Did the testing seem unfair? Arre they able to do the work at the appropriate age level?
                > > > Cindy V
                > > > To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                > > > From: pamythompson@
                > > > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:41:34 +0000
                > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Shirking comes to mind
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
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                > > >
                > > > A family moves into Maryland , perhaps Howard county , perhaps even to the very community where his/her family has lived for generations . Because of hardship or even instability in his/her life , relocations , transfering to diferent schools or even the diference in state laws . These children find themselves in a unique situation where they are denied credit and grouped with children much younger even though their life experiences dictates otherwise . Perhaps the requirements here will place them in a situation where they turn 21 before they can graduate . These children are forced into a situation through no fault of their own where an education is not attainable .
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Why don't we do more to get these children the education they are entitled to instead of forcing them into a situation which increases the liklihood that one day their children are offered the same choices in life .
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Jack
                > > >
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                > > >
                > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                > > > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
                > > > http://clk.atdmt. com/GBL/go/ 171222984/ direct/01/
                > > >
                > >
                >




                Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.
              • cynthia vaillancourt
                Jack- there is a Gateway school in HoCo - so I assumed you were referring to it and was confused as to why a Carroll County student would be sent there. I
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 6, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Jack-  there is a "Gateway" school in HoCo - so I assumed you were referring to it and was confused as to why a Carroll County student would be sent there.  

                  I may be confused on other parts of your post as well - but the thing that jumps out at me is how high the risk is for kids who move to HCPSS schools late in their school careers to be so "behind" and discouraged that they may become drop-out casualties.

                  I wonder if there is any kind of formal transition counseling addressing transfer students in later grades who are not on track to graduate  on schedule.

                  Does anyone know?

                  Cindy V





                  To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                  From: pamythompson@...
                  Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:19:07 +0000
                  Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Shirking comes to mind

                   
                  Riddle me this Bat Women

                  http://community. carr.org/ fullrecord. asp?record= 567

                  I lope the link to Carroll county Gateway school works for you

                  Stay tooned

                  Jack

                  --- In howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com, "im4therecord" <im4therecord@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Good Morning and Happy New Year and New Decade!
                  >
                  > I have family in Florida, some of whom are teachers. My niece teaches in a school where 85% of the population doesn't speak English and come from home environments that are, to put it mildly, rough. Perhaps one of the reasons this child is being held back is to allow them the opportunity to catch up to his peers here in Maryland. I'm not saying that our schools are perfect, they are far from perfect, but to simply place a child in a grade based on age rather than ability would be more harmful than not having them graduate on time. Frustration, lack of understanding and the potential for failure are greater obstacles to graduation than being older than your graduating class.
                  >
                  > Gateway only serves HoCo kids, so the kid from Carroll county wouldn't be going there. If you understood the mission and purpose of the Gateway school you'd understand why kids are sent there. The goal is to give them the extra services they need to help them succeed in their home schools. No one graduates from Gateway, they graduate with their home school peers. None of the kids that go there are "bad" kids, they are kids in crisis. Most of the kids have emotional issues, truancy issues or problems with aggression. They are not kids in trouble with the law, those kids are in Juvenal dentition centers. I know several kids who attended Gateway, they and their families got the extra attention and services they needed and were able to transition back to their home schools successfully. One of those kids graduated from Glenelg.
                  >
                  > BTW: no child is sent to Gateway without a comprehensive evaluation by a panel of psychologist, counselors and administrators. Every placement has to be approved by the central office before it's finalized. There are very specific rules and criteria that have to be met in order for a child to be placed there. It's not up to one person, one administrator or one counselor. Moreover, parents can also refuse the placement and fight the findings.
                  >
                  > I agree with Ms Vaillancourt, if you want to start a conversation then pose a fact pattern that can be followed. Or, start your posting with Riddle me this, Riddle me that batman...
                  >
                  > Mary
                  >
                  > --- In howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@ > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > That disconected thought process and riddles ..... I was thinking how quiet it was here at Howardpubliced and it disturbed me because the public school system has a monopoly on education . I was thinking how the HCPSS warned me that they would scrutinize everything I say . I was thinking about a discussion I had the other day where HCPSS was not going to accept all a child's credits from Florida and the sadness expressed by this child that would not graduate . I was thinking about his fathers voice as he searched for ideas to lessen the impact and beter his child's future . I think that the HCPSS is not doing all it can for this child .
                  > >
                  > > I am thinking of another child that just moved to Maryland from North Carolina , just over the line to Carroll county , kids had a hard life . North Carolina is going to allow this kid who spent last semester in the 8th grade to proceed this semester to the 9nth grade and nest year be back on track in the 10nth grade . Carroll county will either place him in the 8th grade which is a few years below his age or send him to Gateway for a semester and then place him in the 10nth grade nest year .
                  > >
                  > > Gateway ...We had a student at Glenelg last year who got suspended for a month but really not a bad kid . They told this child to do a semester at Gateway and return in 09 and that would put this child back on track . Gateway was not a good place for this child and life worsened . Child recieved a schedule in the mail and showed up at Glenelg this fall , 15 minutes later they removed this child from Glenelg and sent this child back to Gateway . Attending Gateway had such a negative effect on this child that the decision to drop out was the best option .
                  > >
                  > > The other day an administrator said they hate to see a child fall through the cracks . Perhaps they think slaming the door in their face is preferable .
                  > >
                  > > You know that you can actually fail the 8th grade in Howard county and proceed on to the 9nth grade .
                  > >
                  > > Thought process and Riddles
                  > >
                  > > Ms Vaillancourt you ask a lot of good questions , we could use people like you at the BOE demanding answers .
                  > >
                  > > Jack
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancour t@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Jack,Please be specific and direct about what this situation is -- I, for one, cannot process the riddles.
                  > > > It sounds like some kids have been transferred into hcpss and are being "placed" in grades significantly behind their chronological age ... which you fear will cause them to drop out of school altogether?
                  > > > What grades are we talking about? What ages? Were they in school somewhere else or being homeschooled, or not being schooled at all? How were the placements determined? Were they tested? Did the testing seem unfair? Arre they able to do the work at the appropriate age level?
                  > > > Cindy V
                  > > > To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                  > > > From: pamythompson@
                  > > > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:41:34 +0000
                  > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Shirking comes to mind
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
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                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > A family moves into Maryland , perhaps Howard county , perhaps even to the very community where his/her family has lived for generations . Because of hardship or even instability in his/her life , relocations , transfering to diferent schools or even the diference in state laws . These children find themselves in a unique situation where they are denied credit and grouped with children much younger even though their life experiences dictates otherwise . Perhaps the requirements here will place them in a situation where they turn 21 before they can graduate . These children are forced into a situation through no fault of their own where an education is not attainable .
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Why don't we do more to get these children the education they are entitled to instead of forcing them into a situation which increases the liklihood that one day their children are offered the same choices in life .
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Jack
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                  > > > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
                  > > > http://clk.atdmt. com/GBL/go/ 171222984/ direct/01/
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >




                  Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now.
                • pamythompson
                  The kids that I know that went to Gateway did not do so well , the use of alcohol and drugs were the most noticeable changes . The child from Glenelg I refer
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 6, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    The kids that I know that went to Gateway did not do so well , the use of alcohol and drugs were the most noticeable changes . The child from Glenelg I refer to is now 16 and no longer in school . A lot of the people in the community tried to help and hoped that someone at Glenelg may be able to make a diference however a trip to Gateway was not what the community had in mind nor was forcing the child out of school . Shirking comes to mnid .

                    The child from Florida's family is from here as well and I do not believe HCPSS had this childs best interest at heart either . I do not believe that this is what the community expects from our schools in either case . I believe this county as well as the state may have quite a few children in this situation .

                    The child from Carroll who has a choice of being placed with much younger children or in a Gateway school very similar to ours will probably drop out as well . That is three dropouts to your one success and by my count we all lose . These are just three children I encountered over the holidays , perhaps I just did not have the opportunity to meet those success stories you mentioned .

                    What interests me is how many of these children there are and how lacking the process is that closes the door on their future , how much we as a society lose .

                    If I want to start a conversation I can start any where and go in any direction . For example Gatesay is just one of many schools as well as nonpublic educational programs approved by the Maryland State Board Of Education under COMAR 13A.09.10

                    Or your "niece teaches in a school where 85% of the population doesn't speak English and come from home environments that are, to put it mildly, rough ". Are we talking stereotypes here ? 40 years a go the population in the U.S. was about 11.5% black 88% white and only 1/2 percent other . In 40 years or less whites will be a minority in this country . 85% of the population doesn't speak English, actually we have that here in Maryland or close to it in some neighborhoods . So how does an English speaking teacher instruct a non English speaking school or for that matter even relate to them ? Probably as well as the parameters of our school system relates to the children I refer to ?

                    Then again English is not the official langauge of the United States and in these southern states they speak "Spanglish" a blend of the two English and Spanish ,

                    Back to Gateway "parents can also refuse the placement and fight the findings." I believe that parents should be able to fight the HCPSS findings on many issues however our laws or lack of really do not permit that , they favor the status quo .

                    "drop-out casualties" I like the correlation you espress here .

                    A casualty is a person who is the victim of an accident, injury, or trauma. The word casualties is most often used by the news media to describe deaths and injuries resulting from wars or disasters. Casualties is sometimes misunderstood to mean fatalities, but non-fatal injuries are also casualties.

                    Which brings us to sickness , desiese , and death in the family as well as drugs , alcohol and prison and let's not forget divorce and the single parent or the many other misfortunate circunstances that impact a child . It is hard to bring this broken group of parents voices together on behalf of their children albeit a simple voice that only asks that these children be given an opportunity , a chance to be what we are not .

                    Jack






                    --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Jack- there is a "Gateway" school in HoCo - so I assumed you were referring to it and was confused as to why a Carroll County student would be sent there.
                    > I may be confused on other parts of your post as well - but the thing that jumps out at me is how high the risk is for kids who move to HCPSS schools late in their school careers to be so "behind" and discouraged that they may become drop-out casualties.
                    > I wonder if there is any kind of formal transition counseling addressing transfer students in later grades who are not on track to graduate on schedule.
                    > Does anyone know?
                    > Cindy V
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: pamythompson@...
                    > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:19:07 +0000
                    > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Shirking comes to mind
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Riddle me this Bat Women
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > http://community.carr.org/fullrecord.asp?record=567
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I lope the link to Carroll county Gateway school works for you
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Stay tooned
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Jack
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "im4therecord" <im4therecord@> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Good Morning and Happy New Year and New Decade!
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > I have family in Florida, some of whom are teachers. My niece teaches in a school where 85% of the population doesn't speak English and come from home environments that are, to put it mildly, rough. Perhaps one of the reasons this child is being held back is to allow them the opportunity to catch up to his peers here in Maryland. I'm not saying that our schools are perfect, they are far from perfect, but to simply place a child in a grade based on age rather than ability would be more harmful than not having them graduate on time. Frustration, lack of understanding and the potential for failure are greater obstacles to graduation than being older than your graduating class.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Gateway only serves HoCo kids, so the kid from Carroll county wouldn't be going there. If you understood the mission and purpose of the Gateway school you'd understand why kids are sent there. The goal is to give them the extra services they need to help them succeed in their home schools. No one graduates from Gateway, they graduate with their home school peers. None of the kids that go there are "bad" kids, they are kids in crisis. Most of the kids have emotional issues, truancy issues or problems with aggression. They are not kids in trouble with the law, those kids are in Juvenal dentition centers. I know several kids who attended Gateway, they and their families got the extra attention and services they needed and were able to transition back to their home schools successfully. One of those kids graduated from Glenelg.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > BTW: no child is sent to Gateway without a comprehensive evaluation by a panel of psychologist, counselors and administrators. Every placement has to be approved by the central office before it's finalized. There are very specific rules and criteria that have to be met in order for a child to be placed there. It's not up to one person, one administrator or one counselor. Moreover, parents can also refuse the placement and fight the findings.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > I agree with Ms Vaillancourt, if you want to start a conversation then pose a fact pattern that can be followed. Or, start your posting with Riddle me this, Riddle me that batman...
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Mary
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@> wrote:
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > That disconected thought process and riddles ..... I was thinking how quiet it was here at Howardpubliced and it disturbed me because the public school system has a monopoly on education . I was thinking how the HCPSS warned me that they would scrutinize everything I say . I was thinking about a discussion I had the other day where HCPSS was not going to accept all a child's credits from Florida and the sadness expressed by this child that would not graduate . I was thinking about his fathers voice as he searched for ideas to lessen the impact and beter his child's future . I think that the HCPSS is not doing all it can for this child .
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > I am thinking of another child that just moved to Maryland from North Carolina , just over the line to Carroll county , kids had a hard life . North Carolina is going to allow this kid who spent last semester in the 8th grade to proceed this semester to the 9nth grade and nest year be back on track in the 10nth grade . Carroll county will either place him in the 8th grade which is a few years below his age or send him to Gateway for a semester and then place him in the 10nth grade nest year .
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > Gateway ...We had a student at Glenelg last year who got suspended for a month but really not a bad kid . They told this child to do a semester at Gateway and return in 09 and that would put this child back on track . Gateway was not a good place for this child and life worsened . Child recieved a schedule in the mail and showed up at Glenelg this fall , 15 minutes later they removed this child from Glenelg and sent this child back to Gateway . Attending Gateway had such a negative effect on this child that the decision to drop out was the best option .
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > The other day an administrator said they hate to see a child fall through the cracks . Perhaps they think slaming the door in their face is preferable .
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > You know that you can actually fail the 8th grade in Howard county and proceed on to the 9nth grade .
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > Thought process and Riddles
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > Ms Vaillancourt you ask a lot of good questions , we could use people like you at the BOE demanding answers .
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > Jack
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > > Jack,Please be specific and direct about what this situation is -- I, for one, cannot process the riddles.
                    >
                    > > > > It sounds like some kids have been transferred into hcpss and are being "placed" in grades significantly behind their chronological age ... which you fear will cause them to drop out of school altogether?
                    >
                    > > > > What grades are we talking about? What ages? Were they in school somewhere else or being homeschooled, or not being schooled at all? How were the placements determined? Were they tested? Did the testing seem unfair? Arre they able to do the work at the appropriate age level?
                    >
                    > > > > Cindy V
                    >
                    > > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > > > > From: pamythompson@
                    >
                    > > > > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:41:34 +0000
                    >
                    > > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Shirking comes to mind
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > > A family moves into Maryland , perhaps Howard county , perhaps even to the very community where his/her family has lived for generations . Because of hardship or even instability in his/her life , relocations , transfering to diferent schools or even the diference in state laws . These children find themselves in a unique situation where they are denied credit and grouped with children much younger even though their life experiences dictates otherwise . Perhaps the requirements here will place them in a situation where they turn 21 before they can graduate . These children are forced into a situation through no fault of their own where an education is not attainable .
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > > Why don't we do more to get these children the education they are entitled to instead of forcing them into a situation which increases the liklihood that one day their children are offered the same choices in life .
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > > Jack
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > > > __________________________________________________________
                    >
                    > > > > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
                    >
                    > > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _________________________________________________________________
                    > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
                    > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/
                    >
                  • bobrosebrough21045
                    Just out of curiosity, were in the sam hell do you get your information? Do you hav a job or do spend all of your time ganking rumors and propaganda. Some of
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 7, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Just out of curiosity, were in the sam hell do you get your information? Do you hav a job or do spend all of your time ganking rumors and propaganda. Some of your "info" is highly personal and seems to meet privacy act criteria. Do you have any education or training in guidance and counseling so that you can make decisions on alternative placement?

                      --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The kids that I know that went to Gateway did not do so well , the use of alcohol and drugs were the most noticeable changes . The child from Glenelg I refer to is now 16 and no longer in school . A lot of the people in the community tried to help and hoped that someone at Glenelg may be able to make a diference however a trip to Gateway was not what the community had in mind nor was forcing the child out of school . Shirking comes to mnid .
                      >
                      > The child from Florida's family is from here as well and I do not believe HCPSS had this childs best interest at heart either . I do not believe that this is what the community expects from our schools in either case . I believe this county as well as the state may have quite a few children in this situation .
                      >
                      > The child from Carroll who has a choice of being placed with much younger children or in a Gateway school very similar to ours will probably drop out as well . That is three dropouts to your one success and by my count we all lose . These are just three children I encountered over the holidays , perhaps I just did not have the opportunity to meet those success stories you mentioned .
                      >
                      > What interests me is how many of these children there are and how lacking the process is that closes the door on their future , how much we as a society lose .
                      >
                      > If I want to start a conversation I can start any where and go in any direction . For example Gatesay is just one of many schools as well as nonpublic educational programs approved by the Maryland State Board Of Education under COMAR 13A.09.10
                      >
                      > Or your "niece teaches in a school where 85% of the population doesn't speak English and come from home environments that are, to put it mildly, rough ". Are we talking stereotypes here ? 40 years a go the population in the U.S. was about 11.5% black 88% white and only 1/2 percent other . In 40 years or less whites will be a minority in this country . 85% of the population doesn't speak English, actually we have that here in Maryland or close to it in some neighborhoods . So how does an English speaking teacher instruct a non English speaking school or for that matter even relate to them ? Probably as well as the parameters of our school system relates to the children I refer to ?
                      >
                      > Then again English is not the official langauge of the United States and in these southern states they speak "Spanglish" a blend of the two English and Spanish ,
                      >
                      > Back to Gateway "parents can also refuse the placement and fight the findings." I believe that parents should be able to fight the HCPSS findings on many issues however our laws or lack of really do not permit that , they favor the status quo .
                      >
                      > "drop-out casualties" I like the correlation you espress here .
                      >
                      > A casualty is a person who is the victim of an accident, injury, or trauma. The word casualties is most often used by the news media to describe deaths and injuries resulting from wars or disasters. Casualties is sometimes misunderstood to mean fatalities, but non-fatal injuries are also casualties.
                      >
                      > Which brings us to sickness , desiese , and death in the family as well as drugs , alcohol and prison and let's not forget divorce and the single parent or the many other misfortunate circunstances that impact a child . It is hard to bring this broken group of parents voices together on behalf of their children albeit a simple voice that only asks that these children be given an opportunity , a chance to be what we are not .
                      >
                      > Jack
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Jack- there is a "Gateway" school in HoCo - so I assumed you were referring to it and was confused as to why a Carroll County student would be sent there.
                      > > I may be confused on other parts of your post as well - but the thing that jumps out at me is how high the risk is for kids who move to HCPSS schools late in their school careers to be so "behind" and discouraged that they may become drop-out casualties.
                      > > I wonder if there is any kind of formal transition counseling addressing transfer students in later grades who are not on track to graduate on schedule.
                      > > Does anyone know?
                      > > Cindy V
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                      > > From: pamythompson@
                      > > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:19:07 +0000
                      > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Shirking comes to mind
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Riddle me this Bat Women
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > http://community.carr.org/fullrecord.asp?record=567
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I lope the link to Carroll county Gateway school works for you
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Stay tooned
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Jack
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "im4therecord" <im4therecord@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Good Morning and Happy New Year and New Decade!
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > I have family in Florida, some of whom are teachers. My niece teaches in a school where 85% of the population doesn't speak English and come from home environments that are, to put it mildly, rough. Perhaps one of the reasons this child is being held back is to allow them the opportunity to catch up to his peers here in Maryland. I'm not saying that our schools are perfect, they are far from perfect, but to simply place a child in a grade based on age rather than ability would be more harmful than not having them graduate on time. Frustration, lack of understanding and the potential for failure are greater obstacles to graduation than being older than your graduating class.
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Gateway only serves HoCo kids, so the kid from Carroll county wouldn't be going there. If you understood the mission and purpose of the Gateway school you'd understand why kids are sent there. The goal is to give them the extra services they need to help them succeed in their home schools. No one graduates from Gateway, they graduate with their home school peers. None of the kids that go there are "bad" kids, they are kids in crisis. Most of the kids have emotional issues, truancy issues or problems with aggression. They are not kids in trouble with the law, those kids are in Juvenal dentition centers. I know several kids who attended Gateway, they and their families got the extra attention and services they needed and were able to transition back to their home schools successfully. One of those kids graduated from Glenelg.
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > BTW: no child is sent to Gateway without a comprehensive evaluation by a panel of psychologist, counselors and administrators. Every placement has to be approved by the central office before it's finalized. There are very specific rules and criteria that have to be met in order for a child to be placed there. It's not up to one person, one administrator or one counselor. Moreover, parents can also refuse the placement and fight the findings.
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > I agree with Ms Vaillancourt, if you want to start a conversation then pose a fact pattern that can be followed. Or, start your posting with Riddle me this, Riddle me that batman...
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > Mary
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > That disconected thought process and riddles ..... I was thinking how quiet it was here at Howardpubliced and it disturbed me because the public school system has a monopoly on education . I was thinking how the HCPSS warned me that they would scrutinize everything I say . I was thinking about a discussion I had the other day where HCPSS was not going to accept all a child's credits from Florida and the sadness expressed by this child that would not graduate . I was thinking about his fathers voice as he searched for ideas to lessen the impact and beter his child's future . I think that the HCPSS is not doing all it can for this child .
                      > >
                      > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > I am thinking of another child that just moved to Maryland from North Carolina , just over the line to Carroll county , kids had a hard life . North Carolina is going to allow this kid who spent last semester in the 8th grade to proceed this semester to the 9nth grade and nest year be back on track in the 10nth grade . Carroll county will either place him in the 8th grade which is a few years below his age or send him to Gateway for a semester and then place him in the 10nth grade nest year .
                      > >
                      > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > Gateway ...We had a student at Glenelg last year who got suspended for a month but really not a bad kid . They told this child to do a semester at Gateway and return in 09 and that would put this child back on track . Gateway was not a good place for this child and life worsened . Child recieved a schedule in the mail and showed up at Glenelg this fall , 15 minutes later they removed this child from Glenelg and sent this child back to Gateway . Attending Gateway had such a negative effect on this child that the decision to drop out was the best option .
                      > >
                      > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > The other day an administrator said they hate to see a child fall through the cracks . Perhaps they think slaming the door in their face is preferable .
                      > >
                      > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > You know that you can actually fail the 8th grade in Howard county and proceed on to the 9nth grade .
                      > >
                      > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > Thought process and Riddles
                      > >
                      > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > Ms Vaillancourt you ask a lot of good questions , we could use people like you at the BOE demanding answers .
                      > >
                      > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > Jack
                      > >
                      > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > > Jack,Please be specific and direct about what this situation is -- I, for one, cannot process the riddles.
                      > >
                      > > > > > It sounds like some kids have been transferred into hcpss and are being "placed" in grades significantly behind their chronological age ... which you fear will cause them to drop out of school altogether?
                      > >
                      > > > > > What grades are we talking about? What ages? Were they in school somewhere else or being homeschooled, or not being schooled at all? How were the placements determined? Were they tested? Did the testing seem unfair? Arre they able to do the work at the appropriate age level?
                      > >
                      > > > > > Cindy V
                      > >
                      > > > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > > > > > From: pamythompson@
                      > >
                      > > > > > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:41:34 +0000
                      > >
                      > > > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Shirking comes to mind
                      > >
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                      > > > > > A family moves into Maryland , perhaps Howard county , perhaps even to the very community where his/her family has lived for generations . Because of hardship or even instability in his/her life , relocations , transfering to diferent schools or even the diference in state laws . These children find themselves in a unique situation where they are denied credit and grouped with children much younger even though their life experiences dictates otherwise . Perhaps the requirements here will place them in a situation where they turn 21 before they can graduate . These children are forced into a situation through no fault of their own where an education is not attainable .
                      > >
                      > > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > > Why don't we do more to get these children the education they are entitled to instead of forcing them into a situation which increases the liklihood that one day their children are offered the same choices in life .
                      > >
                      > > > > >
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                      > > > > > Jack
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                      > >
                      > > > > >
                      > >
                      > > > > > __________________________________________________________
                      > >
                      > > > > > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
                      > >
                      > > > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
                      > >
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                      > >
                      > >
                      > > _________________________________________________________________
                      > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
                      > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/
                      > >
                      >
                    • F. Williams
                      This is the most messed up/mad post I ve ever read in this forum. I m done. From: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com [mailto:howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 7, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment

                        This is the most messed up/mad post I’ve ever read in this forum.  I’m done.

                         

                        From: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com [mailto:howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bobrosebrough21045
                        Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:57 AM
                        To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Shirking comes to mind

                         

                         

                        Just out of curiosity, were in the sam hell do you get your information? Do you hav a job or do spend all of your time ganking rumors and propaganda. Some of your "info" is highly personal and seems to meet privacy act criteria. Do you have any education or training in guidance and counseling so that you can make decisions on alternative placement?

                        --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > The kids that I know that went to Gateway did not do so well , the use of
                        alcohol and drugs were the most noticeable changes . The child from Glenelg I refer to is now 16 and no longer in school . A lot of the people in the community tried to help and hoped that someone at Glenelg may be able to make a diference however a trip to Gateway was not what the community had in mind nor was forcing the child out of school . Shirking comes to mnid .
                        >
                        > The child from Florida's family is from here as well and I do not believe
                        HCPSS had this childs best interest at heart either . I do not believe that this is what the community expects from our schools in either case . I believe this county as well as the state may have quite a few children in this situation .
                        >
                        > The child from Carroll who has a choice of being placed with much younger
                        children or in a Gateway school very similar to ours will probably drop out as well . That is three dropouts to your one success and by my count we all lose . These are just three children I encountered over the holidays , perhaps I just did not have the opportunity to meet those success stories you mentioned .
                        >
                        > What interests me is how many of these children there are and how lacking
                        the process is that closes the door on their future , how much we as a society lose .
                        >
                        > If I want to start a conversation I can start any where and go in any
                        direction . For example Gatesay is just one of many schools as well as nonpublic educational programs approved by the Maryland State Board Of Education under COMAR 13A.09.10
                        >
                        > Or your "niece teaches in a school where 85% of the population
                        doesn't speak English and come from home environments that are, to put it mildly, rough ". Are we talking stereotypes here ? 40 years a go the population in the U.S. was about 11.5% black 88% white and only 1/2 percent other . In 40 years or less whites will be a minority in this country . 85% of the population doesn't speak English, actually we have that here in Maryland or close to it in some neighborhoods . So how does an English speaking teacher instruct a non English speaking school or for that matter even relate to them ? Probably as well as the parameters of our school system relates to the children I refer to ?
                        >
                        > Then again English is not the official langauge of the United States and
                        in these southern states they speak "Spanglish" a blend of the two English and Spanish ,
                        >
                        > Back to Gateway "parents can also refuse the placement and fight the
                        findings." I believe that parents should be able to fight the HCPSS findings on many issues however our laws or lack of really do not permit that , they favor the status quo .
                        >
                        > "drop-out casualties" I like the correlation you espress here .
                        >
                        > A casualty is a person who is the victim of an accident, injury, or
                        trauma. The word casualties is most often used by the news media to describe deaths and injuries resulting from wars or disasters. Casualties is sometimes misunderstood to mean fatalities, but non-fatal injuries are also casualties.
                        >
                        > Which brings us to sickness , desiese , and death in the family as well as
                        drugs , alcohol and prison and let's not forget divorce and the single parent or the many other misfortunate circunstances that impact a child . It is hard to bring this broken group of parents voices together on behalf of their children albeit a simple voice that only asks that these children be given an opportunity , a chance to be what we are not .
                        >
                        > Jack
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com,
                        cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Jack- there is a "Gateway" school in HoCo - so I assumed
                        you were referring to it and was confused as to why a Carroll County student would be sent there.
                        > > I may be confused on other parts of your post as well - but the thing
                        that jumps out at me is how high the risk is for kids who move to HCPSS schools late in their school careers to be so "behind" and discouraged that they may become drop-out casualties.
                        > > I wonder if there is any kind of formal transition counseling
                        addressing transfer students in later grades who are not on track to graduate on schedule.
                        > > Does anyone know?
                        > > Cindy V
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                        > > From: pamythompson@
                        > > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:19:07 +0000
                        > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Shirking comes to mind
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
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                        > > Riddle me this Bat Women
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > http://community.carr.org/fullrecord.asp?record=567
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I lope the link to Carroll county Gateway school works for you
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Stay tooned
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Jack
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com,
                        "im4therecord" <im4therecord@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > Good Morning and Happy New Year and New Decade!
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > I have family in Florida, some of whom are teachers. My niece
                        teaches in a school where 85% of the population doesn't speak English and come from home environments that are, to put it mildly, rough. Perhaps one of the reasons this child is being held back is to allow them the opportunity to catch up to his peers here in Maryland. I'm not saying that our schools are perfect, they are far from perfect, but to simply place a child in a grade based on age rather than ability would be more harmful than not having them graduate on time. Frustration, lack of understanding and the potential for failure are greater obstacles to graduation than being older than your graduating class.
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > Gateway only serves HoCo kids, so the kid from Carroll county
                        wouldn't be going there. If you understood the mission and purpose of the Gateway school you'd understand why kids are sent there. The goal is to give them the extra services they need to help them succeed in their home schools. No one graduates from Gateway, they graduate with their home school peers. None of the kids that go there are "bad" kids, they are kids in crisis. Most of the kids have emotional issues, truancy issues or problems with aggression. They are not kids in trouble with the law, those kids are in Juvenal dentition centers. I know several kids who attended Gateway, they and their families got the extra attention and services they needed and were able to transition back to their home schools successfully. One of those kids graduated from Glenelg.
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > BTW: no child is sent to Gateway without a comprehensive
                        evaluation by a panel of psychologist, counselors and administrators. Every placement has to be approved by the central office before it's finalized. There are very specific rules and criteria that have to be met in order for a child to be placed there. It's not up to one person, one administrator or one counselor. Moreover, parents can also refuse the placement and fight the findings.
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > I agree with Ms Vaillancourt, if you want to start a
                        conversation then pose a fact pattern that can be followed. Or, start your posting with Riddle me this, Riddle me that batman...
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > Mary
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com,
                        "pamythompson" <pamythompson@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > That disconected thought process and riddles ..... I was
                        thinking how quiet it was here at Howardpubliced and it disturbed me because the public school system has a monopoly on education . I was thinking how the HCPSS warned me that they would scrutinize everything I say . I was thinking about a discussion I had the other day where HCPSS was not going to accept all a child's credits from Florida and the sadness expressed by this child that would not graduate . I was thinking about his fathers voice as he searched for ideas to lessen the impact and beter his child's future . I think that the HCPSS is not doing all it can for this child .
                        > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > I am thinking of another child that just moved to Maryland
                        from North Carolina , just over the line to Carroll county , kids had a hard life . North Carolina is going to allow this kid who spent last semester in the 8th grade to proceed this semester to the 9nth grade and nest year be back on track in the 10nth grade . Carroll county will either place him in the 8th grade which is a few years below his age or send him to Gateway for a semester and then place him in the 10nth grade nest year .
                        > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > Gateway ...We had a student at Glenelg last year who got suspended
                        for a month but really not a bad kid . They told this child to do a semester at Gateway and return in 09 and that would put this child back on track . Gateway was not a good place for this child and life worsened . Child recieved a schedule in the mail and showed up at Glenelg this fall , 15 minutes later they removed this child from Glenelg and sent this child back to Gateway . Attending Gateway had such a negative effect on this child that the decision to drop out was the best option .
                        > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > The other day an administrator said they hate to see a
                        child fall through the cracks . Perhaps they think slaming the door in their face is preferable .
                        > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > You know that you can actually fail the 8th grade in Howard
                        county and proceed on to the 9nth grade .
                        > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > Thought process and Riddles
                        > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > Ms Vaillancourt you ask a lot of good questions , we could
                        use people like you at the BOE demanding answers .
                        > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > Jack
                        > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com,
                        cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > > Jack,Please be specific and direct about what this
                        situation is -- I, for one, cannot process the riddles.
                        > >
                        > > > > > It sounds like some kids have been transferred into
                        hcpss and are being "placed" in grades significantly behind their chronological age ... which you fear will cause them to drop out of school altogether?
                        > >
                        > > > > > What grades are we talking about? What ages? Were they
                        in school somewhere else or being homeschooled, or not being schooled at all? How were the placements determined? Were they tested? Did the testing seem unfair? Arre they able to do the work at the appropriate age level?
                        > >
                        > > > > > Cindy V
                        > >
                        > > > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > > > > > From: pamythompson@
                        > >
                        > > > > > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:41:34 +0000
                        > >
                        > > > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Shirking comes to mind
                        > >
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                        > > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > > A family moves into Maryland , perhaps Howard county ,
                        perhaps even to the very community where his/her family has lived for generations . Because of hardship or even instability in his/her life , relocations , transfering to diferent schools or even the diference in state laws . These children find themselves in a unique situation where they are denied credit and grouped with children much younger even though their life experiences dictates otherwise . Perhaps the requirements here will place them in a situation where they turn 21 before they can graduate . These children are forced into a situation through no fault of their own where an education is not attainable .
                        > >
                        > > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > > Why don't we do more to get these children the
                        education they are entitled to instead of forcing them into a situation which increases the liklihood that one day their children are offered the same choices in life .
                        > >
                        > > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > > Jack
                        > >
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                        > > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > >
                        > >
                        > > > > > __________________________________________________________
                        > >
                        > > > > > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
                        > >
                        > > > > >
                        href="http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/">http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
                        > >
                        > > > > >
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                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > __________________________________________________________
                        > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
                        > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/
                        > >
                        >

                      • pamythompson
                        Do you have any education or training I like that . You realize that 13 years in school plus 4 years in collegs and by the age of about 22 you can be back
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 7, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          "Do you have any education or training" I like that .

                          You realize that 13 years in school plus 4 years in collegs and by the age of about 22 you can be back at the same high school you graduated from as a teacher . Even if you have never left home and have very little life experience . On the other hand a child that has been to hell and back , in and out of schools and neighborhoods , a crash course in life if you will is held back .

                          I believe that these psychologist, counselors and administrators could do far more for these children and I believe that it in in the communities best interest to have these children in school . I believe that there are people that may be in positions to make a difference who will question if we are doing enough for these kids .

                          Who's responsibility is it ? HCPSS can not claim "X" most of our children graduate . Claim "Y" most go to college . Shun "Z" those that do not do well . I spoke of wealth and poverty , how neighborhoods change over , the migration of families seeking a better life . America a country that welcomes all yet we shun our own shildren . Shirking comes to mind .

                          The only disfunction I speak of is a system that has grown fat and blind . They may have a monopoly on the education of our children but it would be foolish to think they control the spring from which knowledge flows . "info" is highly personal ... There is a fine line however the darkness from which our school system cloaks it's self in is more disturbing .

                          Jack



                          --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "bobrosebrough21045" <bobrosebrough21045@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Just out of curiosity, were in the sam hell do you get your information? Do you hav a job or do spend all of your time ganking rumors and propaganda. Some of your "info" is highly personal and seems to meet privacy act criteria. Do you have any education or training in guidance and counseling so that you can make decisions on alternative placement?
                          >
                          > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > The kids that I know that went to Gateway did not do so well , the use of alcohol and drugs were the most noticeable changes . The child from Glenelg I refer to is now 16 and no longer in school . A lot of the people in the community tried to help and hoped that someone at Glenelg may be able to make a diference however a trip to Gateway was not what the community had in mind nor was forcing the child out of school . Shirking comes to mnid .
                          > >
                          > > The child from Florida's family is from here as well and I do not believe HCPSS had this childs best interest at heart either . I do not believe that this is what the community expects from our schools in either case . I believe this county as well as the state may have quite a few children in this situation .
                          > >
                          > > The child from Carroll who has a choice of being placed with much younger children or in a Gateway school very similar to ours will probably drop out as well . That is three dropouts to your one success and by my count we all lose . These are just three children I encountered over the holidays , perhaps I just did not have the opportunity to meet those success stories you mentioned .
                          > >
                          > > What interests me is how many of these children there are and how lacking the process is that closes the door on their future , how much we as a society lose .
                          > >
                          > > If I want to start a conversation I can start any where and go in any direction . For example Gatesay is just one of many schools as well as nonpublic educational programs approved by the Maryland State Board Of Education under COMAR 13A.09.10
                          > >
                          > > Or your "niece teaches in a school where 85% of the population doesn't speak English and come from home environments that are, to put it mildly, rough ". Are we talking stereotypes here ? 40 years a go the population in the U.S. was about 11.5% black 88% white and only 1/2 percent other . In 40 years or less whites will be a minority in this country . 85% of the population doesn't speak English, actually we have that here in Maryland or close to it in some neighborhoods . So how does an English speaking teacher instruct a non English speaking school or for that matter even relate to them ? Probably as well as the parameters of our school system relates to the children I refer to ?
                          > >
                          > > Then again English is not the official langauge of the United States and in these southern states they speak "Spanglish" a blend of the two English and Spanish ,
                          > >
                          > > Back to Gateway "parents can also refuse the placement and fight the findings." I believe that parents should be able to fight the HCPSS findings on many issues however our laws or lack of really do not permit that , they favor the status quo .
                          > >
                          > > "drop-out casualties" I like the correlation you espress here .
                          > >
                          > > A casualty is a person who is the victim of an accident, injury, or trauma. The word casualties is most often used by the news media to describe deaths and injuries resulting from wars or disasters. Casualties is sometimes misunderstood to mean fatalities, but non-fatal injuries are also casualties.
                          > >
                          > > Which brings us to sickness , desiese , and death in the family as well as drugs , alcohol and prison and let's not forget divorce and the single parent or the many other misfortunate circunstances that impact a child . It is hard to bring this broken group of parents voices together on behalf of their children albeit a simple voice that only asks that these children be given an opportunity , a chance to be what we are not .
                          > >
                          > > Jack
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Jack- there is a "Gateway" school in HoCo - so I assumed you were referring to it and was confused as to why a Carroll County student would be sent there.
                          > > > I may be confused on other parts of your post as well - but the thing that jumps out at me is how high the risk is for kids who move to HCPSS schools late in their school careers to be so "behind" and discouraged that they may become drop-out casualties.
                          > > > I wonder if there is any kind of formal transition counseling addressing transfer students in later grades who are not on track to graduate on schedule.
                          > > > Does anyone know?
                          > > > Cindy V
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > From: pamythompson@
                          > > > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:19:07 +0000
                          > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Shirking comes to mind
                          > > >
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                          > > > Riddle me this Bat Women
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > http://community.carr.org/fullrecord.asp?record=567
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > I lope the link to Carroll county Gateway school works for you
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Stay tooned
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Jack
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "im4therecord" <im4therecord@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > Good Morning and Happy New Year and New Decade!
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > I have family in Florida, some of whom are teachers. My niece teaches in a school where 85% of the population doesn't speak English and come from home environments that are, to put it mildly, rough. Perhaps one of the reasons this child is being held back is to allow them the opportunity to catch up to his peers here in Maryland. I'm not saying that our schools are perfect, they are far from perfect, but to simply place a child in a grade based on age rather than ability would be more harmful than not having them graduate on time. Frustration, lack of understanding and the potential for failure are greater obstacles to graduation than being older than your graduating class.
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > Gateway only serves HoCo kids, so the kid from Carroll county wouldn't be going there. If you understood the mission and purpose of the Gateway school you'd understand why kids are sent there. The goal is to give them the extra services they need to help them succeed in their home schools. No one graduates from Gateway, they graduate with their home school peers. None of the kids that go there are "bad" kids, they are kids in crisis. Most of the kids have emotional issues, truancy issues or problems with aggression. They are not kids in trouble with the law, those kids are in Juvenal dentition centers. I know several kids who attended Gateway, they and their families got the extra attention and services they needed and were able to transition back to their home schools successfully. One of those kids graduated from Glenelg.
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > BTW: no child is sent to Gateway without a comprehensive evaluation by a panel of psychologist, counselors and administrators. Every placement has to be approved by the central office before it's finalized. There are very specific rules and criteria that have to be met in order for a child to be placed there. It's not up to one person, one administrator or one counselor. Moreover, parents can also refuse the placement and fight the findings.
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > I agree with Ms Vaillancourt, if you want to start a conversation then pose a fact pattern that can be followed. Or, start your posting with Riddle me this, Riddle me that batman...
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > Mary
                          > > >
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                          > > >
                          > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > > That disconected thought process and riddles ..... I was thinking how quiet it was here at Howardpubliced and it disturbed me because the public school system has a monopoly on education . I was thinking how the HCPSS warned me that they would scrutinize everything I say . I was thinking about a discussion I had the other day where HCPSS was not going to accept all a child's credits from Florida and the sadness expressed by this child that would not graduate . I was thinking about his fathers voice as he searched for ideas to lessen the impact and beter his child's future . I think that the HCPSS is not doing all it can for this child .
                          > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > > I am thinking of another child that just moved to Maryland from North Carolina , just over the line to Carroll county , kids had a hard life . North Carolina is going to allow this kid who spent last semester in the 8th grade to proceed this semester to the 9nth grade and nest year be back on track in the 10nth grade . Carroll county will either place him in the 8th grade which is a few years below his age or send him to Gateway for a semester and then place him in the 10nth grade nest year .
                          > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > > Gateway ...We had a student at Glenelg last year who got suspended for a month but really not a bad kid . They told this child to do a semester at Gateway and return in 09 and that would put this child back on track . Gateway was not a good place for this child and life worsened . Child recieved a schedule in the mail and showed up at Glenelg this fall , 15 minutes later they removed this child from Glenelg and sent this child back to Gateway . Attending Gateway had such a negative effect on this child that the decision to drop out was the best option .
                          > > >
                          > > > > >
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                          > > > > > The other day an administrator said they hate to see a child fall through the cracks . Perhaps they think slaming the door in their face is preferable .
                          > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > > You know that you can actually fail the 8th grade in Howard county and proceed on to the 9nth grade .
                          > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > > Thought process and Riddles
                          > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > > Ms Vaillancourt you ask a lot of good questions , we could use people like you at the BOE demanding answers .
                          > > >
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                          > > >
                          > > > > > Jack
                          > > >
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                          > > >
                          > > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > > > >
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                          > > > > > > Jack,Please be specific and direct about what this situation is -- I, for one, cannot process the riddles.
                          > > >
                          > > > > > > It sounds like some kids have been transferred into hcpss and are being "placed" in grades significantly behind their chronological age ... which you fear will cause them to drop out of school altogether?
                          > > >
                          > > > > > > What grades are we talking about? What ages? Were they in school somewhere else or being homeschooled, or not being schooled at all? How were the placements determined? Were they tested? Did the testing seem unfair? Arre they able to do the work at the appropriate age level?
                          > > >
                          > > > > > > Cindy V
                          > > >
                          > > > > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                          > > >
                          > > > > > > From: pamythompson@
                          > > >
                          > > > > > > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:41:34 +0000
                          > > >
                          > > > > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Shirking comes to mind
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                          > > > > > > A family moves into Maryland , perhaps Howard county , perhaps even to the very community where his/her family has lived for generations . Because of hardship or even instability in his/her life , relocations , transfering to diferent schools or even the diference in state laws . These children find themselves in a unique situation where they are denied credit and grouped with children much younger even though their life experiences dictates otherwise . Perhaps the requirements here will place them in a situation where they turn 21 before they can graduate . These children are forced into a situation through no fault of their own where an education is not attainable .
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                          > > > > > > Why don't we do more to get these children the education they are entitled to instead of forcing them into a situation which increases the liklihood that one day their children are offered the same choices in life .
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                          > > > > > > __________________________________________________________
                          > > >
                          > > > > > > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
                          > > >
                          > > > > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
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                          > > > _________________________________________________________________
                          > > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
                          > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • pamythompson
                          Apparently a child that fails in North Carolina (below 69%) but recieved a grade above 60% passes by Maryland s standards or at least that is the view of
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jan 17, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Apparently a child that fails in North Carolina (below 69%) but recieved a grade above 60% passes by Maryland's standards or at least that is the view of Carroll county and therefor the child is promoted .

                            That was interesting .

                            Jack

                            --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > "Do you have any education or training" I like that .
                            >
                            > You realize that 13 years in school plus 4 years in collegs and by the age of about 22 you can be back at the same high school you graduated from as a teacher . Even if you have never left home and have very little life experience . On the other hand a child that has been to hell and back , in and out of schools and neighborhoods , a crash course in life if you will is held back .
                            >
                            > I believe that these psychologist, counselors and administrators could do far more for these children and I believe that it in in the communities best interest to have these children in school . I believe that there are people that may be in positions to make a difference who will question if we are doing enough for these kids .
                            >
                            > Who's responsibility is it ? HCPSS can not claim "X" most of our children graduate . Claim "Y" most go to college . Shun "Z" those that do not do well . I spoke of wealth and poverty , how neighborhoods change over , the migration of families seeking a better life . America a country that welcomes all yet we shun our own shildren . Shirking comes to mind .
                            >
                            > The only disfunction I speak of is a system that has grown fat and blind . They may have a monopoly on the education of our children but it would be foolish to think they control the spring from which knowledge flows . "info" is highly personal ... There is a fine line however the darkness from which our school system cloaks it's self in is more disturbing .
                            >
                            > Jack
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "bobrosebrough21045" <bobrosebrough21045@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Just out of curiosity, were in the sam hell do you get your information? Do you hav a job or do spend all of your time ganking rumors and propaganda. Some of your "info" is highly personal and seems to meet privacy act criteria. Do you have any education or training in guidance and counseling so that you can make decisions on alternative placement?
                            > >
                            > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > The kids that I know that went to Gateway did not do so well , the use of alcohol and drugs were the most noticeable changes . The child from Glenelg I refer to is now 16 and no longer in school . A lot of the people in the community tried to help and hoped that someone at Glenelg may be able to make a diference however a trip to Gateway was not what the community had in mind nor was forcing the child out of school . Shirking comes to mnid .
                            > > >
                            > > > The child from Florida's family is from here as well and I do not believe HCPSS had this childs best interest at heart either . I do not believe that this is what the community expects from our schools in either case . I believe this county as well as the state may have quite a few children in this situation .
                            > > >
                            > > > The child from Carroll who has a choice of being placed with much younger children or in a Gateway school very similar to ours will probably drop out as well . That is three dropouts to your one success and by my count we all lose . These are just three children I encountered over the holidays , perhaps I just did not have the opportunity to meet those success stories you mentioned .
                            > > >
                            > > > What interests me is how many of these children there are and how lacking the process is that closes the door on their future , how much we as a society lose .
                            > > >
                            > > > If I want to start a conversation I can start any where and go in any direction . For example Gatesay is just one of many schools as well as nonpublic educational programs approved by the Maryland State Board Of Education under COMAR 13A.09.10
                            > > >
                            > > > Or your "niece teaches in a school where 85% of the population doesn't speak English and come from home environments that are, to put it mildly, rough ". Are we talking stereotypes here ? 40 years a go the population in the U.S. was about 11.5% black 88% white and only 1/2 percent other . In 40 years or less whites will be a minority in this country . 85% of the population doesn't speak English, actually we have that here in Maryland or close to it in some neighborhoods . So how does an English speaking teacher instruct a non English speaking school or for that matter even relate to them ? Probably as well as the parameters of our school system relates to the children I refer to ?
                            > > >
                            > > > Then again English is not the official langauge of the United States and in these southern states they speak "Spanglish" a blend of the two English and Spanish ,
                            > > >
                            > > > Back to Gateway "parents can also refuse the placement and fight the findings." I believe that parents should be able to fight the HCPSS findings on many issues however our laws or lack of really do not permit that , they favor the status quo .
                            > > >
                            > > > "drop-out casualties" I like the correlation you espress here .
                            > > >
                            > > > A casualty is a person who is the victim of an accident, injury, or trauma. The word casualties is most often used by the news media to describe deaths and injuries resulting from wars or disasters. Casualties is sometimes misunderstood to mean fatalities, but non-fatal injuries are also casualties.
                            > > >
                            > > > Which brings us to sickness , desiese , and death in the family as well as drugs , alcohol and prison and let's not forget divorce and the single parent or the many other misfortunate circunstances that impact a child . It is hard to bring this broken group of parents voices together on behalf of their children albeit a simple voice that only asks that these children be given an opportunity , a chance to be what we are not .
                            > > >
                            > > > Jack
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Jack- there is a "Gateway" school in HoCo - so I assumed you were referring to it and was confused as to why a Carroll County student would be sent there.
                            > > > > I may be confused on other parts of your post as well - but the thing that jumps out at me is how high the risk is for kids who move to HCPSS schools late in their school careers to be so "behind" and discouraged that they may become drop-out casualties.
                            > > > > I wonder if there is any kind of formal transition counseling addressing transfer students in later grades who are not on track to graduate on schedule.
                            > > > > Does anyone know?
                            > > > > Cindy V
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > From: pamythompson@
                            > > > > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:19:07 +0000
                            > > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Shirking comes to mind
                            > > > >
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                            > > > > Riddle me this Bat Women
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > http://community.carr.org/fullrecord.asp?record=567
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I lope the link to Carroll county Gateway school works for you
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Stay tooned
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Jack
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "im4therecord" <im4therecord@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > Good Morning and Happy New Year and New Decade!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > I have family in Florida, some of whom are teachers. My niece teaches in a school where 85% of the population doesn't speak English and come from home environments that are, to put it mildly, rough. Perhaps one of the reasons this child is being held back is to allow them the opportunity to catch up to his peers here in Maryland. I'm not saying that our schools are perfect, they are far from perfect, but to simply place a child in a grade based on age rather than ability would be more harmful than not having them graduate on time. Frustration, lack of understanding and the potential for failure are greater obstacles to graduation than being older than your graduating class.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > Gateway only serves HoCo kids, so the kid from Carroll county wouldn't be going there. If you understood the mission and purpose of the Gateway school you'd understand why kids are sent there. The goal is to give them the extra services they need to help them succeed in their home schools. No one graduates from Gateway, they graduate with their home school peers. None of the kids that go there are "bad" kids, they are kids in crisis. Most of the kids have emotional issues, truancy issues or problems with aggression. They are not kids in trouble with the law, those kids are in Juvenal dentition centers. I know several kids who attended Gateway, they and their families got the extra attention and services they needed and were able to transition back to their home schools successfully. One of those kids graduated from Glenelg.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > BTW: no child is sent to Gateway without a comprehensive evaluation by a panel of psychologist, counselors and administrators. Every placement has to be approved by the central office before it's finalized. There are very specific rules and criteria that have to be met in order for a child to be placed there. It's not up to one person, one administrator or one counselor. Moreover, parents can also refuse the placement and fight the findings.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > I agree with Ms Vaillancourt, if you want to start a conversation then pose a fact pattern that can be followed. Or, start your posting with Riddle me this, Riddle me that batman...
                            > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > Mary
                            > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "pamythompson" <pamythompson@> wrote:
                            > > > >
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                            > > > > > > That disconected thought process and riddles ..... I was thinking how quiet it was here at Howardpubliced and it disturbed me because the public school system has a monopoly on education . I was thinking how the HCPSS warned me that they would scrutinize everything I say . I was thinking about a discussion I had the other day where HCPSS was not going to accept all a child's credits from Florida and the sadness expressed by this child that would not graduate . I was thinking about his fathers voice as he searched for ideas to lessen the impact and beter his child's future . I think that the HCPSS is not doing all it can for this child .
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                            > > > > > > I am thinking of another child that just moved to Maryland from North Carolina , just over the line to Carroll county , kids had a hard life . North Carolina is going to allow this kid who spent last semester in the 8th grade to proceed this semester to the 9nth grade and nest year be back on track in the 10nth grade . Carroll county will either place him in the 8th grade which is a few years below his age or send him to Gateway for a semester and then place him in the 10nth grade nest year .
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                            > > > > > > Gateway ...We had a student at Glenelg last year who got suspended for a month but really not a bad kid . They told this child to do a semester at Gateway and return in 09 and that would put this child back on track . Gateway was not a good place for this child and life worsened . Child recieved a schedule in the mail and showed up at Glenelg this fall , 15 minutes later they removed this child from Glenelg and sent this child back to Gateway . Attending Gateway had such a negative effect on this child that the decision to drop out was the best option .
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                            > > > > > > The other day an administrator said they hate to see a child fall through the cracks . Perhaps they think slaming the door in their face is preferable .
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                            > > > > > > You know that you can actually fail the 8th grade in Howard county and proceed on to the 9nth grade .
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                            > > > > > > Thought process and Riddles
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                            > > > > > > Ms Vaillancourt you ask a lot of good questions , we could use people like you at the BOE demanding answers .
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                            > > > > > > Jack
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                            > > > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@> wrote:
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                            > > > > > > > Jack,Please be specific and direct about what this situation is -- I, for one, cannot process the riddles.
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                            > > > > > > > It sounds like some kids have been transferred into hcpss and are being "placed" in grades significantly behind their chronological age ... which you fear will cause them to drop out of school altogether?
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                            > > > > > > > What grades are we talking about? What ages? Were they in school somewhere else or being homeschooled, or not being schooled at all? How were the placements determined? Were they tested? Did the testing seem unfair? Arre they able to do the work at the appropriate age level?
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                            > > > > > > > Cindy V
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                            > > > > > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
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                            > > > > > > > From: pamythompson@
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                            > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:41:34 +0000
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                            > > > > > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Shirking comes to mind
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                            > > > > > > > A family moves into Maryland , perhaps Howard county , perhaps even to the very community where his/her family has lived for generations . Because of hardship or even instability in his/her life , relocations , transfering to diferent schools or even the diference in state laws . These children find themselves in a unique situation where they are denied credit and grouped with children much younger even though their life experiences dictates otherwise . Perhaps the requirements here will place them in a situation where they turn 21 before they can graduate . These children are forced into a situation through no fault of their own where an education is not attainable .
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                            > > > > > > > Why don't we do more to get these children the education they are entitled to instead of forcing them into a situation which increases the liklihood that one day their children are offered the same choices in life .
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                            > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________
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