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Re: Student Member Of the Board Voting Rights Passed!

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  • david_thalheimer
    Janis: I think that the chance that a student member will oppose the rest of the board and become a lone voice of dissent is unlikely, but with adult allies,
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 1, 2009
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      Janis:

      I think that the chance that a student member will oppose the rest of the board and become a lone voice of dissent is unlikely, but with adult allies, one will most likely be open to new ideas and reforms. In my opinion, a student member is more likely than adult board members to be idealistic and want to have a positive impact.

      Many studies have shown that groups tend to seek consensus and fall into the trap of groupthink. However, all you need is a single credible voice of dissent to challenge and help stimulate the group to start debating issues. In Howard County, Allen Dyer provides that voice of dissent, which makes it easier for others (such as the student member) to question the group.

      If the student member in Montgomery County has been voting with the board, I suspect it is just because of the group dynamics that deter him from becoming a voice of dissent or reform. You need an adult reformer to start changing things and can't rely on the student to stand alone!

      We still need more voices for change in Howard County. Who in this group is willing to step up and run for a seat on the Board of Ed? Come on ... anybody?????

      - David T


      --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...> wrote:
      >
      > janis,
      >
      > i am not familiar with the voting records of montgomery county student board
      > members but i have found that the last two student board members on the
      > howard county board of education to be much more willing to look at issues
      > from a different perspective.
      >
      > the most recent example was the board discussion on whether to support del.
      > miller's funding accountability and transparency act amendment that would
      > require the howard county board of education to comply with the same vendor
      > reporting requirements as the state. as soon as the board legislative
      > committee reported that they were going to recommend a one year delay, josh
      > manley, this year's student board member, asked for specifics as to the cost
      > of implementation (see appended email). after the student member's email,
      > staff investigated and found that the cost of implementation would only be
      > approximately $2,000 and, as a result, the legislative committee switched
      > its recommendation to full support for del. miller's funding accountability
      > bill.
      >
      > i am convinced that a strong (i.e. more voting rights) student voice will
      > add perspective and vibrancy to our elected board of education.
      >
      > allen dyer
      > member, howard county board of education
      >
      > _____________________________________________________
      >
      > From: Student Member - BOE Sunday, November 15, 2009 3:13:19 PM
      >
      > Subject: Re(2): Howard County Public Schools - Funding Accountability and
      > Transparency Act
      >
      > To: Janet Siddiqui
      > Cc: Allen R. Dyer, Board & Senior Staff, Student Member & Board
      >
      > Dr. Siddiqui,
      >
      > The Legislative Committee is proposing that the Board support Del. Miller's
      > legislation with an
      > amendment that the site be operational by January 1, 2013 instead of January
      > 1, 2012 because of
      > the estimated one-time and ongoing cost to develop and maintain the website
      > that staff and IT
      > brought before the committee.
      >
      > Is there any way that staff can provide the Board any documents showing what
      > the actual estimated
      > one-time and ongoing costs would be if the website were operational in 2012
      > v. 2013? If our
      > economic situation is the reason for the amendment, it's important for staff
      > to show the Board and
      > public 1) the difference in costs if the website were operational by the
      > date that Del. Miller is
      > proposing v. our proposed operating date and 2) the cost that this website
      > will cost over the
      > long-term.
      >
      > I support Del. Miller's proposed legislation, but I would like to get the
      > rationale behind delaying the
      > start date to 2013 in dollars and cents before I decide to support the
      > amendment.
      >
      > Thank You,
      > Josh T. Manley
      > Student Member
      > Board of Education of Howard County
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: churchillclustercoordinator
      > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 3:12 PM
      > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Student Member Of the Board Voting Rights
      > Passed!
      >
      >
      >
      > Yet, looking at how the SMOB has voted in Montgomery County - they have
      > voted in lock step with the adults for years. Their votes have included
      > voting IN an illegal policy to charge students fees to attend class,
      > voting IN an increase in the ExtraCurricular Activity Fee that has not
      > cut participation by 30%, voting IN an increase in the student parking
      > fees, voting AGAINST a student trying to enroll in middle school
      > (American Citizen living with legal guardian), and voting AGAINST
      > students who were denied their contractual right to sit on a school
      > committee to determine a change in the schedule (vote was to deny
      > appeal).
      >
      > We just don't see the student member of the Board speaking up for
      > students. We also have a MCPS staff person (paid $107,000 a year) to
      > "supervise" the SMOB.
      >
      > Janis Sartucci
      >
      > (Montgomery County)
      >
      >
      > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "david_thalheimer"
      > <dthalheimerusa@> wrote:
      > >
      > > All:
      > >
      > > What do you think about expanding the voting rights of the student
      > board member? I think it would be a positive move as it would provide
      > more input from a constituency that has a strong vested interest in
      > educational improvements. See blog article below by the Montgomery
      > County student member.
      > >
      > > -David T
      > >
      > >
      > > SMOB Voting Rights Passed!
      > > http://mocosmob.blogspot.com/
      > >
      > > On 11/10/2009, the MCPS Board of Education voted to support an
      > expansion of the Student Member's right to vote 7-1 and place it in
      > their legislative platform. This is a historic moment for student
      > advocacy in MCPS and marks the official support of the Board of
      > Education and the start of our lobbying process. If the bill passes
      > through the Montgomery County Delegation, this will be a historic moment
      > in student advocacy in the State of Maryland.
      > >
      > > Previously, the SMOB could not vote on the 2.2 Billion Dollar Budget,
      > the CIP (Construction Budget), School Boundaries, Union Contracts, or
      > School Closings. This legislation would let the SMOB vote on all of
      > these.
      > >
      > > Over the course of the next two months, SMOB 2.0 and students across
      > this county will be pushing extremely hard for this legislation to go
      > through both houses of the Montgomery County Delegation and get it all
      > the way to the Governor's Desk. Currently, the bill is in the Montgomery
      > County Delegation sponsored by Delegates Kaiser, Hucker, and
      > Gutièrrez as well as Senators Raskin and Madaleno.
      > >
      > > Please write to your state legislator and tell them that you care
      > about student advocacy! I have attached for you the letter template that
      > I ask for you to send out [TEMPLATE].
      > >
      > > Place your name and your address (so the legislator will know what
      > district you are in) at the top and send to the emails listed there. All
      > you have to do is copy-paste the email message to all the recipients and
      > tell others to do the same. The more emails that are delivered, the more
      > support that this will garner. Hopefully, with enough lobbying, we will
      > be able to push this legislation through.
      > >
      > > Thank you for your support and I look forward to working with you all
      > on this matter in the upcoming months!
      > >
      > > Link to bill authorizing expanded voting rights:
      > > http://www.montgomerycountydelegation.com/MC12-10.html
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original messages
      > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
      > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain their
      > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
    • churchillclustercoordinator
      ... the ... in class. When I was growing up students were able to speak out on their own - No adult crutch needed. Janis Sartucci
      Message 2 of 24 , Dec 1, 2009
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        Sorry - post got cut off - here is full post:


        --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "churchillclustercoordinator"
        <churchillclustercoordinator@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > David,
        >
        > We have two Board members who have been speaking out and have become
        the
        > "dissenters". No interest from the SMOB in joining that effort.
        >
        > Our SMOB is always more than happy to vote against the interest of
        > students. Even to the point of setting the call in time for public
        > comment at Board meetings to 10AM Monday mornings, when students are
        in class.

        When I was growing up students were able to speak out on their own - No
        adult crutch needed.

        Janis Sartucci
      • im4therecord
        No offense, but don t you think it s a presumptuous to assume that just because the student representatives vote similarly to the board that they are just
        Message 3 of 24 , Dec 2, 2009
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          No offense, but don't you think it's a presumptuous to assume that just because the student representatives vote similarly to the board that they are just mimicking the will of the board. Maybe they are in agreement with the decisions being made. To suggest that they are stuck in groupthink or are in need of adult's to help sway them against the grain doesn't give them credit as individual thinkers.

          It's not an easy task to become a BOE student representative, most, if not all, of these kids have already shown that they are independent leaders. It would however be interesting to catch a glimpse of their thought processes as they form their opinions.

          Mary


          --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "david_thalheimer" <dthalheimerusa@...> wrote:
          >
          > Janis:
          >
          > I think that the chance that a student member will oppose the rest of the board and become a lone voice of dissent is unlikely, but with adult allies, one will most likely be open to new ideas and reforms. In my opinion, a student member is more likely than adult board members to be idealistic and want to have a positive impact.
          >
          > Many studies have shown that groups tend to seek consensus and fall into the trap of groupthink. However, all you need is a single credible voice of dissent to challenge and help stimulate the group to start debating issues. In Howard County, Allen Dyer provides that voice of dissent, which makes it easier for others (such as the student member) to question the group.
          >
          > If the student member in Montgomery County has been voting with the board, I suspect it is just because of the group dynamics that deter him from becoming a voice of dissent or reform. You need an adult reformer to start changing things and can't rely on the student to stand alone!
          >
          > We still need more voices for change in Howard County. Who in this group is willing to step up and run for a seat on the Board of Ed? Come on ... anybody?????
          >
          > - David T
          >
          >
          > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
          > >
          > > janis,
          > >
          > > i am not familiar with the voting records of montgomery county student board
          > > members but i have found that the last two student board members on the
          > > howard county board of education to be much more willing to look at issues
          > > from a different perspective.
          > >
          > > the most recent example was the board discussion on whether to support del.
          > > miller's funding accountability and transparency act amendment that would
          > > require the howard county board of education to comply with the same vendor
          > > reporting requirements as the state. as soon as the board legislative
          > > committee reported that they were going to recommend a one year delay, josh
          > > manley, this year's student board member, asked for specifics as to the cost
          > > of implementation (see appended email). after the student member's email,
          > > staff investigated and found that the cost of implementation would only be
          > > approximately $2,000 and, as a result, the legislative committee switched
          > > its recommendation to full support for del. miller's funding accountability
          > > bill.
          > >
          > > i am convinced that a strong (i.e. more voting rights) student voice will
          > > add perspective and vibrancy to our elected board of education.
          > >
          > > allen dyer
          > > member, howard county board of education
          > >
          > > _____________________________________________________
          > >
          > > From: Student Member - BOE Sunday, November 15, 2009 3:13:19 PM
          > >
          > > Subject: Re(2): Howard County Public Schools - Funding Accountability and
          > > Transparency Act
          > >
          > > To: Janet Siddiqui
          > > Cc: Allen R. Dyer, Board & Senior Staff, Student Member & Board
          > >
          > > Dr. Siddiqui,
          > >
          > > The Legislative Committee is proposing that the Board support Del. Miller's
          > > legislation with an
          > > amendment that the site be operational by January 1, 2013 instead of January
          > > 1, 2012 because of
          > > the estimated one-time and ongoing cost to develop and maintain the website
          > > that staff and IT
          > > brought before the committee.
          > >
          > > Is there any way that staff can provide the Board any documents showing what
          > > the actual estimated
          > > one-time and ongoing costs would be if the website were operational in 2012
          > > v. 2013? If our
          > > economic situation is the reason for the amendment, it's important for staff
          > > to show the Board and
          > > public 1) the difference in costs if the website were operational by the
          > > date that Del. Miller is
          > > proposing v. our proposed operating date and 2) the cost that this website
          > > will cost over the
          > > long-term.
          > >
          > > I support Del. Miller's proposed legislation, but I would like to get the
          > > rationale behind delaying the
          > > start date to 2013 in dollars and cents before I decide to support the
          > > amendment.
          > >
          > > Thank You,
          > > Josh T. Manley
          > > Student Member
          > > Board of Education of Howard County
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: churchillclustercoordinator
          > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 3:12 PM
          > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Student Member Of the Board Voting Rights
          > > Passed!
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yet, looking at how the SMOB has voted in Montgomery County - they have
          > > voted in lock step with the adults for years. Their votes have included
          > > voting IN an illegal policy to charge students fees to attend class,
          > > voting IN an increase in the ExtraCurricular Activity Fee that has not
          > > cut participation by 30%, voting IN an increase in the student parking
          > > fees, voting AGAINST a student trying to enroll in middle school
          > > (American Citizen living with legal guardian), and voting AGAINST
          > > students who were denied their contractual right to sit on a school
          > > committee to determine a change in the schedule (vote was to deny
          > > appeal).
          > >
          > > We just don't see the student member of the Board speaking up for
          > > students. We also have a MCPS staff person (paid $107,000 a year) to
          > > "supervise" the SMOB.
          > >
          > > Janis Sartucci
          > >
          > > (Montgomery County)
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "david_thalheimer"
          > > <dthalheimerusa@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > All:
          > > >
          > > > What do you think about expanding the voting rights of the student
          > > board member? I think it would be a positive move as it would provide
          > > more input from a constituency that has a strong vested interest in
          > > educational improvements. See blog article below by the Montgomery
          > > County student member.
          > > >
          > > > -David T
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > SMOB Voting Rights Passed!
          > > > http://mocosmob.blogspot.com/
          > > >
          > > > On 11/10/2009, the MCPS Board of Education voted to support an
          > > expansion of the Student Member's right to vote 7-1 and place it in
          > > their legislative platform. This is a historic moment for student
          > > advocacy in MCPS and marks the official support of the Board of
          > > Education and the start of our lobbying process. If the bill passes
          > > through the Montgomery County Delegation, this will be a historic moment
          > > in student advocacy in the State of Maryland.
          > > >
          > > > Previously, the SMOB could not vote on the 2.2 Billion Dollar Budget,
          > > the CIP (Construction Budget), School Boundaries, Union Contracts, or
          > > School Closings. This legislation would let the SMOB vote on all of
          > > these.
          > > >
          > > > Over the course of the next two months, SMOB 2.0 and students across
          > > this county will be pushing extremely hard for this legislation to go
          > > through both houses of the Montgomery County Delegation and get it all
          > > the way to the Governor's Desk. Currently, the bill is in the Montgomery
          > > County Delegation sponsored by Delegates Kaiser, Hucker, and
          > > Gutièrrez as well as Senators Raskin and Madaleno.
          > > >
          > > > Please write to your state legislator and tell them that you care
          > > about student advocacy! I have attached for you the letter template that
          > > I ask for you to send out [TEMPLATE].
          > > >
          > > > Place your name and your address (so the legislator will know what
          > > district you are in) at the top and send to the emails listed there. All
          > > you have to do is copy-paste the email message to all the recipients and
          > > tell others to do the same. The more emails that are delivered, the more
          > > support that this will garner. Hopefully, with enough lobbying, we will
          > > be able to push this legislation through.
          > > >
          > > > Thank you for your support and I look forward to working with you all
          > > on this matter in the upcoming months!
          > > >
          > > > Link to bill authorizing expanded voting rights:
          > > > http://www.montgomerycountydelegation.com/MC12-10.html
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original messages
          > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
          > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain their
          > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          >
        • david_thalheimer
          I guess it is a bit presumptuous of me since I don t have any real evidence to support the theory I just put forth. Obviously, in Montgomery County, it isn t
          Message 4 of 24 , Dec 3, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            I guess it is a bit presumptuous of me since I don't have any real evidence to support the theory I just put forth. Obviously, in Montgomery County, it isn't holding true. It would be interesting to compare the student member's election platform (assuming he had one) with his voting record. Maybe they just aren't electing reform-oriented students.

            Another presumtuous theory: Most people who run for government aren't really interested in change (at least not more than they are interested in their own self interests), so maybe that applies to students too!

            - David T

            --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "im4therecord" <im4therecord@...> wrote:
            >
            > No offense, but don't you think it's a presumptuous to assume that just because the student representatives vote similarly to the board that they are just mimicking the will of the board. Maybe they are in agreement with the decisions being made. To suggest that they are stuck in groupthink or are in need of adult's to help sway them against the grain doesn't give them credit as individual thinkers.
            >
            > It's not an easy task to become a BOE student representative, most, if not all, of these kids have already shown that they are independent leaders. It would however be interesting to catch a glimpse of their thought processes as they form their opinions.
            >
            > Mary
            >
            >
            > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "david_thalheimer" <dthalheimerusa@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Janis:
            > >
            > > I think that the chance that a student member will oppose the rest of the board and become a lone voice of dissent is unlikely, but with adult allies, one will most likely be open to new ideas and reforms. In my opinion, a student member is more likely than adult board members to be idealistic and want to have a positive impact.
            > >
            > > Many studies have shown that groups tend to seek consensus and fall into the trap of groupthink. However, all you need is a single credible voice of dissent to challenge and help stimulate the group to start debating issues. In Howard County, Allen Dyer provides that voice of dissent, which makes it easier for others (such as the student member) to question the group.
            > >
            > > If the student member in Montgomery County has been voting with the board, I suspect it is just because of the group dynamics that deter him from becoming a voice of dissent or reform. You need an adult reformer to start changing things and can't rely on the student to stand alone!
            > >
            > > We still need more voices for change in Howard County. Who in this group is willing to step up and run for a seat on the Board of Ed? Come on ... anybody?????
            > >
            > > - David T
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > janis,
            > > >
            > > > i am not familiar with the voting records of montgomery county student board
            > > > members but i have found that the last two student board members on the
            > > > howard county board of education to be much more willing to look at issues
            > > > from a different perspective.
            > > >
            > > > the most recent example was the board discussion on whether to support del.
            > > > miller's funding accountability and transparency act amendment that would
            > > > require the howard county board of education to comply with the same vendor
            > > > reporting requirements as the state. as soon as the board legislative
            > > > committee reported that they were going to recommend a one year delay, josh
            > > > manley, this year's student board member, asked for specifics as to the cost
            > > > of implementation (see appended email). after the student member's email,
            > > > staff investigated and found that the cost of implementation would only be
            > > > approximately $2,000 and, as a result, the legislative committee switched
            > > > its recommendation to full support for del. miller's funding accountability
            > > > bill.
            > > >
            > > > i am convinced that a strong (i.e. more voting rights) student voice will
            > > > add perspective and vibrancy to our elected board of education.
            > > >
            > > > allen dyer
            > > > member, howard county board of education
            > > >
            > > > _____________________________________________________
            > > >
            > > > From: Student Member - BOE Sunday, November 15, 2009 3:13:19 PM
            > > >
            > > > Subject: Re(2): Howard County Public Schools - Funding Accountability and
            > > > Transparency Act
            > > >
            > > > To: Janet Siddiqui
            > > > Cc: Allen R. Dyer, Board & Senior Staff, Student Member & Board
            > > >
            > > > Dr. Siddiqui,
            > > >
            > > > The Legislative Committee is proposing that the Board support Del. Miller's
            > > > legislation with an
            > > > amendment that the site be operational by January 1, 2013 instead of January
            > > > 1, 2012 because of
            > > > the estimated one-time and ongoing cost to develop and maintain the website
            > > > that staff and IT
            > > > brought before the committee.
            > > >
            > > > Is there any way that staff can provide the Board any documents showing what
            > > > the actual estimated
            > > > one-time and ongoing costs would be if the website were operational in 2012
            > > > v. 2013? If our
            > > > economic situation is the reason for the amendment, it's important for staff
            > > > to show the Board and
            > > > public 1) the difference in costs if the website were operational by the
            > > > date that Del. Miller is
            > > > proposing v. our proposed operating date and 2) the cost that this website
            > > > will cost over the
            > > > long-term.
            > > >
            > > > I support Del. Miller's proposed legislation, but I would like to get the
            > > > rationale behind delaying the
            > > > start date to 2013 in dollars and cents before I decide to support the
            > > > amendment.
            > > >
            > > > Thank You,
            > > > Josh T. Manley
            > > > Student Member
            > > > Board of Education of Howard County
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: churchillclustercoordinator
            > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 3:12 PM
            > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Student Member Of the Board Voting Rights
            > > > Passed!
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Yet, looking at how the SMOB has voted in Montgomery County - they have
            > > > voted in lock step with the adults for years. Their votes have included
            > > > voting IN an illegal policy to charge students fees to attend class,
            > > > voting IN an increase in the ExtraCurricular Activity Fee that has not
            > > > cut participation by 30%, voting IN an increase in the student parking
            > > > fees, voting AGAINST a student trying to enroll in middle school
            > > > (American Citizen living with legal guardian), and voting AGAINST
            > > > students who were denied their contractual right to sit on a school
            > > > committee to determine a change in the schedule (vote was to deny
            > > > appeal).
            > > >
            > > > We just don't see the student member of the Board speaking up for
            > > > students. We also have a MCPS staff person (paid $107,000 a year) to
            > > > "supervise" the SMOB.
            > > >
            > > > Janis Sartucci
            > > >
            > > > (Montgomery County)
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "david_thalheimer"
            > > > <dthalheimerusa@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > All:
            > > > >
            > > > > What do you think about expanding the voting rights of the student
            > > > board member? I think it would be a positive move as it would provide
            > > > more input from a constituency that has a strong vested interest in
            > > > educational improvements. See blog article below by the Montgomery
            > > > County student member.
            > > > >
            > > > > -David T
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > SMOB Voting Rights Passed!
            > > > > http://mocosmob.blogspot.com/
            > > > >
            > > > > On 11/10/2009, the MCPS Board of Education voted to support an
            > > > expansion of the Student Member's right to vote 7-1 and place it in
            > > > their legislative platform. This is a historic moment for student
            > > > advocacy in MCPS and marks the official support of the Board of
            > > > Education and the start of our lobbying process. If the bill passes
            > > > through the Montgomery County Delegation, this will be a historic moment
            > > > in student advocacy in the State of Maryland.
            > > > >
            > > > > Previously, the SMOB could not vote on the 2.2 Billion Dollar Budget,
            > > > the CIP (Construction Budget), School Boundaries, Union Contracts, or
            > > > School Closings. This legislation would let the SMOB vote on all of
            > > > these.
            > > > >
            > > > > Over the course of the next two months, SMOB 2.0 and students across
            > > > this county will be pushing extremely hard for this legislation to go
            > > > through both houses of the Montgomery County Delegation and get it all
            > > > the way to the Governor's Desk. Currently, the bill is in the Montgomery
            > > > County Delegation sponsored by Delegates Kaiser, Hucker, and
            > > > Gutièrrez as well as Senators Raskin and Madaleno.
            > > > >
            > > > > Please write to your state legislator and tell them that you care
            > > > about student advocacy! I have attached for you the letter template that
            > > > I ask for you to send out [TEMPLATE].
            > > > >
            > > > > Place your name and your address (so the legislator will know what
            > > > district you are in) at the top and send to the emails listed there. All
            > > > you have to do is copy-paste the email message to all the recipients and
            > > > tell others to do the same. The more emails that are delivered, the more
            > > > support that this will garner. Hopefully, with enough lobbying, we will
            > > > be able to push this legislation through.
            > > > >
            > > > > Thank you for your support and I look forward to working with you all
            > > > on this matter in the upcoming months!
            > > > >
            > > > > Link to bill authorizing expanded voting rights:
            > > > > http://www.montgomerycountydelegation.com/MC12-10.html
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------------------------------
            > > >
            > > > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original messages
            > > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
            > > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain their
            > > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • im4therecord
            I m not a fan of politicians, so I agree with you on the change thing. Maybe you re right about the students, a lot of them do this so their resumes look
            Message 5 of 24 , Dec 6, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              I'm not a fan of politicians, so I agree with you on the change thing. Maybe you're right about the students, a lot of them do this so their resumes look better to college boards

              --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "david_thalheimer" <dthalheimerusa@...> wrote:
              >
              > I guess it is a bit presumptuous of me since I don't have any real evidence to support the theory I just put forth. Obviously, in Montgomery County, it isn't holding true. It would be interesting to compare the student member's election platform (assuming he had one) with his voting record. Maybe they just aren't electing reform-oriented students.
              >
              > Another presumtuous theory: Most people who run for government aren't really interested in change (at least not more than they are interested in their own self interests), so maybe that applies to students too!
              >
              > - David T
              >
              > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "im4therecord" <im4therecord@> wrote:
              > >
              > > No offense, but don't you think it's a presumptuous to assume that just because the student representatives vote similarly to the board that they are just mimicking the will of the board. Maybe they are in agreement with the decisions being made. To suggest that they are stuck in groupthink or are in need of adult's to help sway them against the grain doesn't give them credit as individual thinkers.
              > >
              > > It's not an easy task to become a BOE student representative, most, if not all, of these kids have already shown that they are independent leaders. It would however be interesting to catch a glimpse of their thought processes as they form their opinions.
              > >
              > > Mary
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "david_thalheimer" <dthalheimerusa@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Janis:
              > > >
              > > > I think that the chance that a student member will oppose the rest of the board and become a lone voice of dissent is unlikely, but with adult allies, one will most likely be open to new ideas and reforms. In my opinion, a student member is more likely than adult board members to be idealistic and want to have a positive impact.
              > > >
              > > > Many studies have shown that groups tend to seek consensus and fall into the trap of groupthink. However, all you need is a single credible voice of dissent to challenge and help stimulate the group to start debating issues. In Howard County, Allen Dyer provides that voice of dissent, which makes it easier for others (such as the student member) to question the group.
              > > >
              > > > If the student member in Montgomery County has been voting with the board, I suspect it is just because of the group dynamics that deter him from becoming a voice of dissent or reform. You need an adult reformer to start changing things and can't rely on the student to stand alone!
              > > >
              > > > We still need more voices for change in Howard County. Who in this group is willing to step up and run for a seat on the Board of Ed? Come on ... anybody?????
              > > >
              > > > - David T
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > janis,
              > > > >
              > > > > i am not familiar with the voting records of montgomery county student board
              > > > > members but i have found that the last two student board members on the
              > > > > howard county board of education to be much more willing to look at issues
              > > > > from a different perspective.
              > > > >
              > > > > the most recent example was the board discussion on whether to support del.
              > > > > miller's funding accountability and transparency act amendment that would
              > > > > require the howard county board of education to comply with the same vendor
              > > > > reporting requirements as the state. as soon as the board legislative
              > > > > committee reported that they were going to recommend a one year delay, josh
              > > > > manley, this year's student board member, asked for specifics as to the cost
              > > > > of implementation (see appended email). after the student member's email,
              > > > > staff investigated and found that the cost of implementation would only be
              > > > > approximately $2,000 and, as a result, the legislative committee switched
              > > > > its recommendation to full support for del. miller's funding accountability
              > > > > bill.
              > > > >
              > > > > i am convinced that a strong (i.e. more voting rights) student voice will
              > > > > add perspective and vibrancy to our elected board of education.
              > > > >
              > > > > allen dyer
              > > > > member, howard county board of education
              > > > >
              > > > > _____________________________________________________
              > > > >
              > > > > From: Student Member - BOE Sunday, November 15, 2009 3:13:19 PM
              > > > >
              > > > > Subject: Re(2): Howard County Public Schools - Funding Accountability and
              > > > > Transparency Act
              > > > >
              > > > > To: Janet Siddiqui
              > > > > Cc: Allen R. Dyer, Board & Senior Staff, Student Member & Board
              > > > >
              > > > > Dr. Siddiqui,
              > > > >
              > > > > The Legislative Committee is proposing that the Board support Del. Miller's
              > > > > legislation with an
              > > > > amendment that the site be operational by January 1, 2013 instead of January
              > > > > 1, 2012 because of
              > > > > the estimated one-time and ongoing cost to develop and maintain the website
              > > > > that staff and IT
              > > > > brought before the committee.
              > > > >
              > > > > Is there any way that staff can provide the Board any documents showing what
              > > > > the actual estimated
              > > > > one-time and ongoing costs would be if the website were operational in 2012
              > > > > v. 2013? If our
              > > > > economic situation is the reason for the amendment, it's important for staff
              > > > > to show the Board and
              > > > > public 1) the difference in costs if the website were operational by the
              > > > > date that Del. Miller is
              > > > > proposing v. our proposed operating date and 2) the cost that this website
              > > > > will cost over the
              > > > > long-term.
              > > > >
              > > > > I support Del. Miller's proposed legislation, but I would like to get the
              > > > > rationale behind delaying the
              > > > > start date to 2013 in dollars and cents before I decide to support the
              > > > > amendment.
              > > > >
              > > > > Thank You,
              > > > > Josh T. Manley
              > > > > Student Member
              > > > > Board of Education of Howard County
              > > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > > From: churchillclustercoordinator
              > > > > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 3:12 PM
              > > > > Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Student Member Of the Board Voting Rights
              > > > > Passed!
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Yet, looking at how the SMOB has voted in Montgomery County - they have
              > > > > voted in lock step with the adults for years. Their votes have included
              > > > > voting IN an illegal policy to charge students fees to attend class,
              > > > > voting IN an increase in the ExtraCurricular Activity Fee that has not
              > > > > cut participation by 30%, voting IN an increase in the student parking
              > > > > fees, voting AGAINST a student trying to enroll in middle school
              > > > > (American Citizen living with legal guardian), and voting AGAINST
              > > > > students who were denied their contractual right to sit on a school
              > > > > committee to determine a change in the schedule (vote was to deny
              > > > > appeal).
              > > > >
              > > > > We just don't see the student member of the Board speaking up for
              > > > > students. We also have a MCPS staff person (paid $107,000 a year) to
              > > > > "supervise" the SMOB.
              > > > >
              > > > > Janis Sartucci
              > > > >
              > > > > (Montgomery County)
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "david_thalheimer"
              > > > > <dthalheimerusa@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > All:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > What do you think about expanding the voting rights of the student
              > > > > board member? I think it would be a positive move as it would provide
              > > > > more input from a constituency that has a strong vested interest in
              > > > > educational improvements. See blog article below by the Montgomery
              > > > > County student member.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > -David T
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > SMOB Voting Rights Passed!
              > > > > > http://mocosmob.blogspot.com/
              > > > > >
              > > > > > On 11/10/2009, the MCPS Board of Education voted to support an
              > > > > expansion of the Student Member's right to vote 7-1 and place it in
              > > > > their legislative platform. This is a historic moment for student
              > > > > advocacy in MCPS and marks the official support of the Board of
              > > > > Education and the start of our lobbying process. If the bill passes
              > > > > through the Montgomery County Delegation, this will be a historic moment
              > > > > in student advocacy in the State of Maryland.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Previously, the SMOB could not vote on the 2.2 Billion Dollar Budget,
              > > > > the CIP (Construction Budget), School Boundaries, Union Contracts, or
              > > > > School Closings. This legislation would let the SMOB vote on all of
              > > > > these.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Over the course of the next two months, SMOB 2.0 and students across
              > > > > this county will be pushing extremely hard for this legislation to go
              > > > > through both houses of the Montgomery County Delegation and get it all
              > > > > the way to the Governor's Desk. Currently, the bill is in the Montgomery
              > > > > County Delegation sponsored by Delegates Kaiser, Hucker, and
              > > > > Gutièrrez as well as Senators Raskin and Madaleno.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Please write to your state legislator and tell them that you care
              > > > > about student advocacy! I have attached for you the letter template that
              > > > > I ask for you to send out [TEMPLATE].
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Place your name and your address (so the legislator will know what
              > > > > district you are in) at the top and send to the emails listed there. All
              > > > > you have to do is copy-paste the email message to all the recipients and
              > > > > tell others to do the same. The more emails that are delivered, the more
              > > > > support that this will garner. Hopefully, with enough lobbying, we will
              > > > > be able to push this legislation through.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Thank you for your support and I look forward to working with you all
              > > > > on this matter in the upcoming months!
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Link to bill authorizing expanded voting rights:
              > > > > > http://www.montgomerycountydelegation.com/MC12-10.html
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > ------------------------------------
              > > > >
              > > > > This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original messages
              > > > > posted here are placed in the public domain unless the poster states
              > > > > otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper articles) retain their
              > > > > original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • churchillclustercoordinator
              Mary, Sure, so here s an example. Students have said that the parking permit fee for students is too high. Yet, a couple of years ago it was the Student member
              Message 6 of 24 , Dec 7, 2009
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                Mary,

                Sure, so here's an example. Students have said that the parking permit
                fee for students is too high. Yet, a couple of years ago it was the
                Student member of the Board that seconded the motion to increase the fee
                at a meeting when it was brought up. The motion was brought up,
                seconded, discussed and voted on all at one meeting without any
                opportunity for public comment - and that included from students. I will
                note that new business is supposed to lie on the table until next
                meeting - but that rule wasn't followed.

                So you have to wonder, what would make a student member of the Board do
                that to her constituency?

                Janis Sartucci


                --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "im4therecord" <im4therecord@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > No offense, but don't you think it's a presumptuous to assume that
                just because the student representatives vote similarly to the board
                that they are just mimicking the will of the board. Maybe they are in
                agreement with the decisions being made. To suggest that they are stuck
                in groupthink or are in need of adult's to help sway them against the
                grain doesn't give them credit as individual thinkers.
                >
                > It's not an easy task to become a BOE student representative, most, if
                not all, of these kids have already shown that they are independent
                leaders. It would however be interesting to catch a glimpse of their
                thought processes as they form their opinions.
                >
                > Mary
                >
              • MICHELLE WOOD
                Did you know that it is in the teachers contract that you have to give advanced notice and get permission to check on your own child at school? I had no
                Message 7 of 24 , Dec 7, 2009
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                  Did you know that it is in the teachers' contract that you have to give advanced notice and get permission to check on your own child at school?  I had no idea.  Today, I stopped at school to pick up mail from the PTA box (I am the PTA treasurer) and decided to peek in to my son's class.  I didn't enter the room, I was simply looking from outside.  There are a bunch of windows along the classroom which are visible from the [empty] pod area.  I was checking in on him for a couple of reasons, the major one being that I had to request that his seat be moved last week after he told me that another child had been spitting on him repeatedly [he is in 1st grade and this child was seated next to him].  At any rate, I wasn't "observing" the classroom in the sense of being in the classroom (I couldn't even hear what was going on).  The teacher saw me looking in and called the office to have me sent away (that is when I was told about the teacher contract).  I was totally shocked and upset.  My son's kindergarten teacher was always so nice and very accomodating when it came to visits/volunteering etc.  I wondered if anyone else had ever had a similar experience. 
                   
                  Michelle
                • F. Williams
                  Security concerns, maybe? From: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com [mailto:howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MICHELLE WOOD Sent: Monday, December 07,
                  Message 8 of 24 , Dec 7, 2009
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                    Security concerns, maybe?

                     

                    From: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com [mailto:howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MICHELLE WOOD
                    Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:08 PM
                    To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                     

                     

                    Did you know that it is in the teachers' contract that you have to give advanced notice and get permission to check on your own child at school?  I had no idea.  Today, I stopped at school to pick up mail from the PTA box (I am the PTA treasurer) and decided to peek in to my son's class.  I didn't enter the room, I was simply looking from outside.  There are a bunch of windows along the classroom which are visible from the [empty] pod area.  I was checking in on him for a couple of reasons, the major one being that I had to request that his seat be moved last week after he told me that another child had been spitting on him repeatedly [he is in 1st grade and this child was seated next to him].  At any rate, I wasn't "observing" the classroom in the sense of being in the classroom (I couldn't even hear what was going on).  The teacher saw me looking in and called the office to have me sent away (that is when I was told about the teacher contract).  I was totally shocked and upset.  My son's kindergarten teacher was always so nice and very accomodating when it came to visits/volunteering etc.  I wondered if anyone else had ever had a similar experience. 

                     

                    Michelle

                  • cynthia vaillancourt
                    security concerns have become as overused as for the children . When the teacher saw a parent known to him/her - it seems to me the argument of a security
                    Message 9 of 24 , Dec 7, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      "security  concerns" have become as overused as "for the children".

                      When the teacher saw a parent known to him/her - it seems to me the argument of a "security concern" would not be legitimately applied.... unless the security concern is job security.

                      Parents peeking in can be disruptive to the class.  Parents "roaming the halls" at will could be chaotic.   All people - adults and children - in the school at any time should be accounted for, registered, known.  I have no problem with that.

                      However, I would be very concerned about my child being in a classroom where the teacher had me removed from visual proximity under the described (or any) circumstances.  



                      Cindy V



                      To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                      From: bhillnev@...
                      Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:02:43 -0500
                      Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                       

                      Security concerns, maybe?

                       

                      From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of MICHELLE WOOD
                      Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:08 PM
                      To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                       

                       

                      Did you know that it is in the teachers' contract that you have to give advanced notice and get permission to check on your own child at school?  I had no idea.  Today, I stopped at school to pick up mail from the PTA box (I am the PTA treasurer) and decided to peek in to my son's class.  I didn't enter the room, I was simply looking from outside.  There are a bunch of windows along the classroom which are visible from the [empty] pod area.  I was checking in on him for a couple of reasons, the major one being that I had to request that his seat be moved last week after he told me that another child had been spitting on him repeatedly [he is in 1st grade and this child was seated next to him].  At any rate, I wasn't "observing" the classroom in the sense of being in the classroom (I couldn't even hear what was going on).  The teacher saw me looking in and called the office to have me sent away (that is when I was told about the teacher contract).  I was totally shocked and upset.  My son's kindergarten teacher was always so nice and very accomodating when it came to visits/volunteering etc.  I wondered if anyone else had ever had a similar experience. 

                       

                      Michelle




                      Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
                    • MICHELLE WOOD
                      I couldn t agree with you more. I highly doubt security concerns had any legitimate role in this. Presumably, the security issue is addressed by locking all
                      Message 10 of 24 , Dec 7, 2009
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                        I couldn't agree with you more.  I highly doubt security concerns had any legitimate role in this.  Presumably, the security issue is addressed by locking all but the front entrance and having visitors sign in at the front office.  Of course, that isn't going to stop anyone who is bent on destruction (nor will making them call to say they are coming first), but that is an entirely separate issue. 
                         
                        The teacher definitely knows who I am.  When the discussion on "Investigations" math came up on this list at the beginning of the school year, I questioned the program.  That is when her animosity toward me started.  Apparently, she takes great pride in the fact that she lead the push to institute the program at our school and took great offense that I had concerns about it.  Since that time, she has made no effort to hide her contempt toward me.  This, in spite of the fact that I did nothing but ask questions to learn more about the curriculum.  Based on her negative attitude toward me this year, I have to wonder if she would have allowed any other child in her class (besides mine) to be spit on repeatedly without moving either the victim or the offender.  Despite my efforts to bend over backwards to be nice to her, I don't see any kindness in return.  Sadly, I am not at all surprised she would do this to me simply to be hateful or intimidating.  What surprised me is that the county gives her the right to bully parents in this way.  I had no idea that I gave up my parental rights when I put my son on the bus.  Or that I need permission to check in on my own child.  Oh, and the rule only applies to "classroom" visits (keeping in mind that I wasn't actually in the classroom).  I am told that it is ok to come and visit him at lunch without prior permission, so the rule seems to be specifically meant to "protect" teachers from unexpected observations. 
                         
                        When I leave my children with a babysitter, I have the right to come back early (unexpectedly) to make sure everything is ok.  Yet, I cannot do the same at school.  It makes me wonder who is looking out for our kids.  What if a teacher is doing something inappropriate in the classroom (or allowing students to do something inappropriate)?  Such a rule basically protects them from ever being caught - at the expense of the children.  Of course we would all love to believe that every teacher is an upstanding and honorable person, but history tells us this isn't the case.  I can think of many high profile reports of teachers who have done despicable things.  While I am sure most of them are good, no doubt there are some who are dangerous.  I want to be clear that my intent today was NOT to "spy" on the teacher.  I simply wanted to look in on my child for a moment (I even had my 3 year old with me at the time).  But this whole thing got me thinking about the possible ramifications of such a policy. 
                         
                        Before the phone call to have me escorted out, I had hand-delivered a note to her so she knew I would be picking my son up instead of having him ride the bus (I had neglected to send it in the morning).  She informed me that in the future I should simply get the note to the office and they would get the message to her.  Based on today's events, she might as well have said "you are not welcome to enter my classroom for any reason."  Supposedly the school encourages parent involvement/visits/volunteerism (and it should - this is a Title I school and lack of parent involvement is one of its major challenges).  However, the message I have received over the course of this year from my son's teacher is something completely different. 
                         
                         
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com [mailto:howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of cynthia vaillancourt
                        Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:08 PM
                        To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                         

                        "security  concerns" have become as overused as "for the children".


                        When the teacher saw a parent known to him/her - it seems to me the argument of a "security concern" would not be legitimately applied.... unless the security concern is job security.

                        Parents peeking in can be disruptive to the class.  Parents "roaming the halls" at will could be chaotic.   All people - adults and children - in the school at any time should be accounted for, registered, known.  I have no problem with that.

                        However, I would be very concerned about my child being in a classroom where the teacher had me removed from visual proximity under the described (or any) circumstances.  



                        Cindy V



                        To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                        From: bhillnev@hotmail. com
                        Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:02:43 -0500
                        Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                         

                        Security concerns, maybe?

                         

                        From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of MICHELLE WOOD
                        Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:08 PM
                        To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                         

                        Did you know that it is in the teachers' contract that you have to give advanced notice and get permission to check on your own child at school?  I had no idea.  Today, I stopped at school to pick up mail from the PTA box (I am the PTA treasurer) and decided to peek in to my son's class.  I didn't enter the room, I was simply looking from outside.  There are a bunch of windows along the classroom which are visible from the [empty] pod area.  I was checking in on him for a couple of reasons, the major one being that I had to request that his seat be moved last week after he told me that another child had been spitting on him repeatedly [he is in 1st grade and this child was seated next to him].  At any rate, I wasn't "observing" the classroom in the sense of being in the classroom (I couldn't even hear what was going on).  The teacher saw me looking in and called the office to have me sent away (that is when I was told about the teacher contract).  I was totally shocked and upset.  My son's kindergarten teacher was always so nice and very accomodating when it came to visits/volunteering etc.  I wondered if anyone else had ever had a similar experience. 

                         

                        Michelle




                        Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.

                      • cynthia vaillancourt
                        why are you leaving your child in this class? The education process requires cooperation between school and home if it is to be successful. If the
                        Message 11 of 24 , Dec 7, 2009
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                          why are you leaving your child in this class?  

                          The education process requires cooperation between school and home if it is to be successful.   If the relationship between a parent and a teacher is this contentious, it seems like a move is in order.

                          cindy v



                          To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                          From: michelle_wood@...
                          Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 19:19:39 -0500
                          Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                           

                          I couldn't agree with you more.  I highly doubt security concerns had any legitimate role in this.  Presumably, the security issue is addressed by locking all but the front entrance and having visitors sign in at the front office.  Of course, that isn't going to stop anyone who is bent on destruction (nor will making them call to say they are coming first), but that is an entirely separate issue. 
                           
                          The teacher definitely knows who I am.  When the discussion on "Investigations" math came up on this list at the beginning of the school year, I questioned the program.  That is when her animosity toward me started.  Apparently, she takes great pride in the fact that she lead the push to institute the program at our school and took great offense that I had concerns about it.  Since that time, she has made no effort to hide her contempt toward me.  This, in spite of the fact that I did nothing but ask questions to learn more about the curriculum.  Based on her negative attitude toward me this year, I have to wonder if she would have allowed any other child in her class (besides mine) to be spit on repeatedly without moving either the victim or the offender.  Despite my efforts to bend over backwards to be nice to her, I don't see any kindness in return.  Sadly, I am not at all surprised she would do this to me simply to be hateful or intimidating.  What surprised me is that the county gives her the right to bully parents in this way.  I had no idea that I gave up my parental rights when I put my son on the bus.  Or that I need permission to check in on my own child.  Oh, and the rule only applies to "classroom" visits (keeping in mind that I wasn't actually in the classroom).  I am told that it is ok to come and visit him at lunch without prior permission, so the rule seems to be specifically meant to "protect" teachers from unexpected observations. 
                           
                          When I leave my children with a babysitter, I have the right to come back early (unexpectedly) to make sure everything is ok.  Yet, I cannot do the same at school.  It makes me wonder who is looking out for our kids.  What if a teacher is doing something inappropriate in the classroom (or allowing students to do something inappropriate) ?  Such a rule basically protects them from ever being caught - at the expense of the children.  Of course we would all love to believe that every teacher is an upstanding and honorable person, but history tells us this isn't the case.  I can think of many high profile reports of teachers who have done despicable things.  While I am sure most of them are good, no doubt there are some who are dangerous.  I want to be clear that my intent today was NOT to "spy" on the teacher.  I simply wanted to look in on my child for a moment (I even had my 3 year old with me at the time).  But this whole thing got me thinking about the possible ramifications of such a policy. 
                           
                          Before the phone call to have me escorted out, I had hand-delivered a note to her so she knew I would be picking my son up instead of having him ride the bus (I had neglected to send it in the morning).  She informed me that in the future I should simply get the note to the office and they would get the message to her.  Based on today's events, she might as well have said "you are not welcome to enter my classroom for any reason."  Supposedly the school encourages parent involvement/ visits/volunteer ism (and it should - this is a Title I school and lack of parent involvement is one of its major challenges).  However, the message I have received over the course of this year from my son's teacher is something completely different. 
                           
                           
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of cynthia vaillancourt
                          Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:08 PM
                          To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                           
                          "security  concerns" have become as overused as "for the children".

                          When the teacher saw a parent known to him/her - it seems to me the argument of a "security concern" would not be legitimately applied.... unless the security concern is job security.

                          Parents peeking in can be disruptive to the class.  Parents "roaming the halls" at will could be chaotic.   All people - adults and children - in the school at any time should be accounted for, registered, known.  I have no problem with that.

                          However, I would be very concerned about my child being in a classroom where the teacher had me removed from visual proximity under the described (or any) circumstances.  



                          Cindy V



                          To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                          From: bhillnev@hotmail. com
                          Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:02:43 -0500
                          Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                           

                          Security concerns, maybe?

                           

                          From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of MICHELLE WOOD
                          Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:08 PM
                          To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                           

                          Did you know that it is in the teachers' contract that you have to give advanced notice and get permission to check on your own child at school?  I had no idea.  Today, I stopped at school to pick up mail from the PTA box (I am the PTA treasurer) and decided to peek in to my son's class.  I didn't enter the room, I was simply looking from outside.  There are a bunch of windows along the classroom which are visible from the [empty] pod area.  I was checking in on him for a couple of reasons, the major one being that I had to request that his seat be moved last week after he told me that another child had been spitting on him repeatedly [he is in 1st grade and this child was seated next to him].  At any rate, I wasn't "observing" the classroom in the sense of being in the classroom (I couldn't even hear what was going on).  The teacher saw me looking in and called the office to have me sent away (that is when I was told about the teacher contract).  I was totally shocked and upset.  My son's kindergarten teacher was always so nice and very accomodating when it came to visits/volunteering etc.  I wondered if anyone else had ever had a similar experience. 

                           

                          Michelle




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                        • MICHELLE WOOD
                          I m not sure I have any choice, other than to remove him from the public school (i.e. home school). First of all, I have little confidence that any kind of
                          Message 12 of 24 , Dec 7, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I'm not sure I have any choice, other than to remove him from the public school (i.e. home school).  First of all, I have little confidence that any kind of corrective action would be possible (given the teacher contracts) even if I complain.  Even if it were possible, I would then have to worry whether my son would face retribution.  Considering how ugly things got (toward me) when I asked generic questions about a math program, I can only imagine what would happen if I made a specific complaint about the teacher.  I hate to admit this, but I actually requested this teacher because she was supposedly the "best" in the grade.  She is also the above grade level math teacher, so even if I changed his homeroom class he would still have her for math.  On top of all that, she is the "team leader."  What would you suggest I do?  I have been trying to stay on her good side as much as possible (even going so far as to rearrange the schedules of myself, my husband, and my father so I could accomodate her last minute request to reschedule our parent-teacher conference time). 
                             
                            I check regularly with my son to make sure he is "ok" in class (while trying to be subtle so he doesn't know why I am asking).  I ask him about his day, who his favorite teacher is, etc. etc.  As long as she only takes out her aggression on me and not him, I feel like that is all I can hope for.  Besides, she supposedly has "policy" on her side. 
                             
                            I will say that my husband just told me (as I was about to send this) that he looked up the negotiated agreement between the Howard County Educators Association and the BOE/HCPSS and found no mention of any such policy.  If it is in some other (nonpublic) contract, the public should be able to see the terms of that contract. 
                             
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com [mailto:howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of cynthia vaillancourt
                            Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:36 PM
                            To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                             

                            why are you leaving your child in this class?  


                            The education process requires cooperation between school and home if it is to be successful.   If the relationship between a parent and a teacher is this contentious, it seems like a move is in order.

                            cindy v



                            To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                            From: michelle_wood@ verizon.net
                            Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 19:19:39 -0500
                            Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                             

                            I couldn't agree with you more.  I highly doubt security concerns had any legitimate role in this.  Presumably, the security issue is addressed by locking all but the front entrance and having visitors sign in at the front office.  Of course, that isn't going to stop anyone who is bent on destruction (nor will making them call to say they are coming first), but that is an entirely separate issue. 
                             
                            The teacher definitely knows who I am.  When the discussion on "Investigations" math came up on this list at the beginning of the school year, I questioned the program.  That is when her animosity toward me started.  Apparently, she takes great pride in the fact that she lead the push to institute the program at our school and took great offense that I had concerns about it.  Since that time, she has made no effort to hide her contempt toward me.  This, in spite of the fact that I did nothing but ask questions to learn more about the curriculum.  Based on her negative attitude toward me this year, I have to wonder if she would have allowed any other child in her class (besides mine) to be spit on repeatedly without moving either the victim or the offender.  Despite my efforts to bend over backwards to be nice to her, I don't see any kindness in return.  Sadly, I am not at all surprised she would do this to me simply to be hateful or intimidating.  What surprised me is that the county gives her the right to bully parents in this way.  I had no idea that I gave up my parental rights when I put my son on the bus.  Or that I need permission to check in on my own child.  Oh, and the rule only applies to "classroom" visits (keeping in mind that I wasn't actually in the classroom).  I am told that it is ok to come and visit him at lunch without prior permission, so the rule seems to be specifically meant to "protect" teachers from unexpected observations. 
                             
                            When I leave my children with a babysitter, I have the right to come back early (unexpectedly) to make sure everything is ok.  Yet, I cannot do the same at school.  It makes me wonder who is looking out for our kids.  What if a teacher is doing something inappropriate in the classroom (or allowing students to do something inappropriate) ?  Such a rule basically protects them from ever being caught - at the expense of the children.  Of course we would all love to believe that every teacher is an upstanding and honorable person, but history tells us this isn't the case.  I can think of many high profile reports of teachers who have done despicable things.  While I am sure most of them are good, no doubt there are some who are dangerous.  I want to be clear that my intent today was NOT to "spy" on the teacher.  I simply wanted to look in on my child for a moment (I even had my 3 year old with me at the time).  But this whole thing got me thinking about the possible ramifications of such a policy. 
                             
                            Before the phone call to have me escorted out, I had hand-delivered a note to her so she knew I would be picking my son up instead of having him ride the bus (I had neglected to send it in the morning).  She informed me that in the future I should simply get the note to the office and they would get the message to her.  Based on today's events, she might as well have said "you are not welcome to enter my classroom for any reason."  Supposedly the school encourages parent involvement/ visits/volunteer ism (and it should - this is a Title I school and lack of parent involvement is one of its major challenges).  However, the message I have received over the course of this year from my son's teacher is something completely different. 
                             
                             
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of cynthia vaillancourt
                            Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:08 PM
                            To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                            Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                             
                            "security  concerns" have become as overused as "for the children".

                            When the teacher saw a parent known to him/her - it seems to me the argument of a "security concern" would not be legitimately applied.... unless the security concern is job security.

                            Parents peeking in can be disruptive to the class.  Parents "roaming the halls" at will could be chaotic.   All people - adults and children - in the school at any time should be accounted for, registered, known.  I have no problem with that.

                            However, I would be very concerned about my child being in a classroom where the teacher had me removed from visual proximity under the described (or any) circumstances.  



                            Cindy V



                            To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                            From: bhillnev@hotmail. com
                            Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:02:43 -0500
                            Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                             

                            Security concerns, maybe?

                             

                            From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of MICHELLE WOOD
                            Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:08 PM
                            To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                            Subject: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                             

                            Did you know that it is in the teachers' contract that you have to give advanced notice and get permission to check on your own child at school?  I had no idea.  Today, I stopped at school to pick up mail from the PTA box (I am the PTA treasurer) and decided to peek in to my son's class.  I didn't enter the room, I was simply looking from outside.  There are a bunch of windows along the classroom which are visible from the [empty] pod area.  I was checking in on him for a couple of reasons, the major one being that I had to request that his seat be moved last week after he told me that another child had been spitting on him repeatedly [he is in 1st grade and this child was seated next to him].  At any rate, I wasn't "observing" the classroom in the sense of being in the classroom (I couldn't even hear what was going on).  The teacher saw me looking in and called the office to have me sent away (that is when I was told about the teacher contract).  I was totally shocked and upset.  My son's kindergarten teacher was always so nice and very accomodating when it came to visits/volunteering etc.  I wondered if anyone else had ever had a similar experience. 

                             

                            Michelle




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                          • cynthia vaillancourt
                            I know it is very stressful and scary to have a conflict with a person who has access to your child - particularly in the school/teacher setting. I can only
                            Message 13 of 24 , Dec 7, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I know it is very stressful and scary to have a conflict with a person who has access to your child - particularly in the school/teacher setting.

                              I can only tell you from my own experiences that as horrible and stressful as it was on the occasions when I felt my child was being subjected to unacceptable situations to meet with the administration and register my concerns/complaints and request specific changes -  the changes were made with little resistance ... and though I too worried about repercussions --- I found that my complaints did not come as complete surprises to the administration or the other teachers... and some were pleased to have the complaints they had formalized by a parent.

                              I hope you will seek some assistance with this problem.  There is a complaint form you can download from the hcpss web site.  I recommend you take the form with you to a meeting with the principal so he/she is aware that you intend to formalize the concern with a paper trail - and have a specific plan on what changes you want to make ... which class you would like him moved to, what oversight you would like to monitor the ongoing math class (or just have him moved into a new one of those too) and by all means - follow up with a formal complaint about the spitting... before your kid retaliates and ends up as the one in trouble.

                              cindy v



                              To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                              From: michelle_wood@...
                              Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 20:36:03 -0500
                              Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                               

                              I'm not sure I have any choice, other than to remove him from the public school (i.e. home school).  First of all, I have little confidence that any kind of corrective action would be possible (given the teacher contracts) even if I complain.  Even if it were possible, I would then have to worry whether my son would face retribution.  Considering how ugly things got (toward me) when I asked generic questions about a math program, I can only imagine what would happen if I made a specific complaint about the teacher.  I hate to admit this, but I actually requested this teacher because she was supposedly the "best" in the grade.  She is also the above grade level math teacher, so even if I changed his homeroom class he would still have her for math.  On top of all that, she is the "team leader."  What would you suggest I do?  I have been trying to stay on her good side as much as possible (even going so far as to rearrange the schedules of myself, my husband, and my father so I could accomodate her last minute request to reschedule our parent-teacher conference time). 
                               
                              I check regularly with my son to make sure he is "ok" in class (while trying to be subtle so he doesn't know why I am asking).  I ask him about his day, who his favorite teacher is, etc. etc.  As long as she only takes out her aggression on me and not him, I feel like that is all I can hope for.  Besides, she supposedly has "policy" on her side. 
                               
                              I will say that my husband just told me (as I was about to send this) that he looked up the negotiated agreement between the Howard County Educators Association and the BOE/HCPSS and found no mention of any such policy.  If it is in some other (nonpublic) contract, the public should be able to see the terms of that contract. 
                               
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of cynthia vaillancourt
                              Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:36 PM
                              To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                               
                              why are you leaving your child in this class?  

                              The education process requires cooperation between school and home if it is to be successful.   If the relationship between a parent and a teacher is this contentious, it seems like a move is in order.

                              cindy v



                              To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                              From: michelle_wood@ verizon.net
                              Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 19:19:39 -0500
                              Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                               

                              I couldn't agree with you more.  I highly doubt security concerns had any legitimate role in this.  Presumably, the security issue is addressed by locking all but the front entrance and having visitors sign in at the front office.  Of course, that isn't going to stop anyone who is bent on destruction (nor will making them call to say they are coming first), but that is an entirely separate issue. 
                               
                              The teacher definitely knows who I am.  When the discussion on "Investigations" math came up on this list at the beginning of the school year, I questioned the program.  That is when her animosity toward me started.  Apparently, she takes great pride in the fact that she lead the push to institute the program at our school and took great offense that I had concerns about it.  Since that time, she has made no effort to hide her contempt toward me.  This, in spite of the fact that I did nothing but ask questions to learn more about the curriculum.  Based on her negative attitude toward me this year, I have to wonder if she would have allowed any other child in her class (besides mine) to be spit on repeatedly without moving either the victim or the offender.  Despite my efforts to bend over backwards to be nice to her, I don't see any kindness in return.  Sadly, I am not at all surprised she would do this to me simply to be hateful or intimidating.  What surprised me is that the county gives her the right to bully parents in this way.  I had no idea that I gave up my parental rights when I put my son on the bus.  Or that I need permission to check in on my own child.  Oh, and the rule only applies to "classroom" visits (keeping in mind that I wasn't actually in the classroom).  I am told that it is ok to come and visit him at lunch without prior permission, so the rule seems to be specifically meant to "protect" teachers from unexpected observations. 
                               
                              When I leave my children with a babysitter, I have the right to come back early (unexpectedly) to make sure everything is ok.  Yet, I cannot do the same at school.  It makes me wonder who is looking out for our kids.  What if a teacher is doing something inappropriate in the classroom (or allowing students to do something inappropriate) ?  Such a rule basically protects them from ever being caught - at the expense of the children.  Of course we would all love to believe that every teacher is an upstanding and honorable person, but history tells us this isn't the case.  I can think of many high profile reports of teachers who have done despicable things.  While I am sure most of them are good, no doubt there are some who are dangerous.  I want to be clear that my intent today was NOT to "spy" on the teacher.  I simply wanted to look in on my child for a moment (I even had my 3 year old with me at the time).  But this whole thing got me thinking about the possible ramifications of such a policy. 
                               
                              Before the phone call to have me escorted out, I had hand-delivered a note to her so she knew I would be picking my son up instead of having him ride the bus (I had neglected to send it in the morning).  She informed me that in the future I should simply get the note to the office and they would get the message to her.  Based on today's events, she might as well have said "you are not welcome to enter my classroom for any reason."  Supposedly the school encourages parent involvement/ visits/volunteer ism (and it should - this is a Title I school and lack of parent involvement is one of its major challenges).  However, the message I have received over the course of this year from my son's teacher is something completely different. 
                               
                               
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of cynthia vaillancourt
                              Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:08 PM
                              To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                               
                              "security  concerns" have become as overused as "for the children".

                              When the teacher saw a parent known to him/her - it seems to me the argument of a "security concern" would not be legitimately applied.... unless the security concern is job security.

                              Parents peeking in can be disruptive to the class.  Parents "roaming the halls" at will could be chaotic.   All people - adults and children - in the school at any time should be accounted for, registered, known.  I have no problem with that.

                              However, I would be very concerned about my child being in a classroom where the teacher had me removed from visual proximity under the described (or any) circumstances.  



                              Cindy V



                              To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                              From: bhillnev@hotmail. com
                              Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:02:43 -0500
                              Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                               

                              Security concerns, maybe?

                               

                              From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of MICHELLE WOOD
                              Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:08 PM
                              To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                               

                              Did you know that it is in the teachers' contract that you have to give advanced notice and get permission to check on your own child at school?  I had no idea.  Today, I stopped at school to pick up mail from the PTA box (I am the PTA treasurer) and decided to peek in to my son's class.  I didn't enter the room, I was simply looking from outside.  There are a bunch of windows along the classroom which are visible from the [empty] pod area.  I was checking in on him for a couple of reasons, the major one being that I had to request that his seat be moved last week after he told me that another child had been spitting on him repeatedly [he is in 1st grade and this child was seated next to him].  At any rate, I wasn't "observing" the classroom in the sense of being in the classroom (I couldn't even hear what was going on).  The teacher saw me looking in and called the office to have me sent away (that is when I was told about the teacher contract).  I was totally shocked and upset.  My son's kindergarten teacher was always so nice and very accomodating when it came to visits/volunteering etc.  I wondered if anyone else had ever had a similar experience. 

                               

                              Michelle




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                            • Deborah Sell
                              Michelle,   My daughter is in a non-public program for kids with significant learning disabilities.    There policy is that parents are not allowed to
                              Message 14 of 24 , Dec 7, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Michelle,
                                 
                                My daughter is in a non-public program for kids with significant learning disabilities.    There policy is that parents are not allowed to observe their child's classes.      The school has a parent / student contract / code of conduct that is reviewed and signed by all parties each year.
                                When we challenged the idea that we couldn't observe her classes -- they told us that unlike public schools they could have this ban.    I took their comments to mean that in public school settings, parents could observe their child's classrooms, with or without prior notification and approval.     I know that in her previous public school placement, I often observed her classes.
                                 
                                Deborah Sell


                                --- On Mon, 12/7/09, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@...> wrote:

                                From: cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@...>
                                Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract
                                To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 9:47 PM

                                 
                                I know it is very stressful and scary to have a conflict with a person who has access to your child - particularly in the school/teacher setting.

                                I can only tell you from my own experiences that as horrible and stressful as it was on the occasions when I felt my child was being subjected to unacceptable situations to meet with the administration and register my concerns/complaints and request specific changes -  the changes were made with little resistance ... and though I too worried about repercussions --- I found that my complaints did not come as complete surprises to the administration or the other teachers... and some were pleased to have the complaints they had formalized by a parent.

                                I hope you will seek some assistance with this problem.  There is a complaint form you can download from the hcpss web site.  I recommend you take the form with you to a meeting with the principal so he/she is aware that you intend to formalize the concern with a paper trail - and have a specific plan on what changes you want to make ... which class you would like him moved to, what oversight you would like to monitor the ongoing math class (or just have him moved into a new one of those too) and by all means - follow up with a formal complaint about the spitting... before your kid retaliates and ends up as the one in trouble.

                                cindy v



                                To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                From: michelle_wood@ verizon.net
                                Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 20:36:03 -0500
                                Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                                 

                                I'm not sure I have any choice, other than to remove him from the public school (i.e. home school).  First of all, I have little confidence that any kind of corrective action would be possible (given the teacher contracts) even if I complain.  Even if it were possible, I would then have to worry whether my son would face retribution.  Considering how ugly things got (toward me) when I asked generic questions about a math program, I can only imagine what would happen if I made a specific complaint about the teacher.  I hate to admit this, but I actually requested this teacher because she was supposedly the "best" in the grade.  She is also the above grade level math teacher, so even if I changed his homeroom class he would still have her for math.  On top of all that, she is the "team leader."  What would you suggest I do?  I have been trying to stay on her good side as much as possible (even going so far as to rearrange the schedules of myself, my husband, and my father so I could accomodate her last minute request to reschedule our parent-teacher conference time). 
                                 
                                I check regularly with my son to make sure he is "ok" in class (while trying to be subtle so he doesn't know why I am asking).  I ask him about his day, who his favorite teacher is, etc. etc.  As long as she only takes out her aggression on me and not him, I feel like that is all I can hope for.  Besides, she supposedly has "policy" on her side. 
                                 
                                I will say that my husband just told me (as I was about to send this) that he looked up the negotiated agreement between the Howard County Educators Association and the BOE/HCPSS and found no mention of any such policy.  If it is in some other (nonpublic) contract, the public should be able to see the terms of that contract. 
                                 
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of cynthia vaillancourt
                                Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:36 PM
                                To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                                 
                                why are you leaving your child in this class?  

                                The education process requires cooperation between school and home if it is to be successful.   If the relationship between a parent and a teacher is this contentious, it seems like a move is in order.

                                cindy v



                                To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                From: michelle_wood@ verizon.net
                                Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 19:19:39 -0500
                                Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                                 

                                I couldn't agree with you more.  I highly doubt security concerns had any legitimate role in this.  Presumably, the security issue is addressed by locking all but the front entrance and having visitors sign in at the front office.  Of course, that isn't going to stop anyone who is bent on destruction (nor will making them call to say they are coming first), but that is an entirely separate issue. 
                                 
                                The teacher definitely knows who I am.  When the discussion on "Investigations" math came up on this list at the beginning of the school year, I questioned the program.  That is when her animosity toward me started.  Apparently, she takes great pride in the fact that she lead the push to institute the program at our school and took great offense that I had concerns about it.  Since that time, she has made no effort to hide her contempt toward me.  This, in spite of the fact that I did nothing but ask questions to learn more about the curriculum.  Based on her negative attitude toward me this year, I have to wonder if she would have allowed any other child in her class (besides mine) to be spit on repeatedly without moving either the victim or the offender.  Despite my efforts to bend over backwards to be nice to her, I don't see any kindness in return.  Sadly, I am not at all surprised she would do this to me simply to be hateful or intimidating.  What surprised me is that the county gives her the right to bully parents in this way.  I had no idea that I gave up my parental rights when I put my son on the bus.  Or that I need permission to check in on my own child.  Oh, and the rule only applies to "classroom" visits (keeping in mind that I wasn't actually in the classroom).  I am told that it is ok to come and visit him at lunch without prior permission, so the rule seems to be specifically meant to "protect" teachers from unexpected observations. 
                                 
                                When I leave my children with a babysitter, I have the right to come back early (unexpectedly) to make sure everything is ok.  Yet, I cannot do the same at school.  It makes me wonder who is looking out for our kids.  What if a teacher is doing something inappropriate in the classroom (or allowing students to do something inappropriate) ?  Such a rule basically protects them from ever being caught - at the expense of the children.  Of course we would all love to believe that every teacher is an upstanding and honorable person, but history tells us this isn't the case.  I can think of many high profile reports of teachers who have done despicable things.  While I am sure most of them are good, no doubt there are some who are dangerous.  I want to be clear that my intent today was NOT to "spy" on the teacher.  I simply wanted to look in on my child for a moment (I even had my 3 year old with me at the time).  But this whole thing got me thinking about the possible ramifications of such a policy. 
                                 
                                Before the phone call to have me escorted out, I had hand-delivered a note to her so she knew I would be picking my son up instead of having him ride the bus (I had neglected to send it in the morning).  She informed me that in the future I should simply get the note to the office and they would get the message to her.  Based on today's events, she might as well have said "you are not welcome to enter my classroom for any reason."  Supposedly the school encourages parent involvement/ visits/volunteer ism (and it should - this is a Title I school and lack of parent involvement is one of its major challenges).  However, the message I have received over the course of this year from my son's teacher is something completely different. 
                                 
                                 
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of cynthia vaillancourt
                                Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:08 PM
                                To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                                 
                                "security  concerns" have become as overused as "for the children".

                                When the teacher saw a parent known to him/her - it seems to me the argument of a "security concern" would not be legitimately applied.... unless the security concern is job security.

                                Parents peeking in can be disruptive to the class.  Parents "roaming the halls" at will could be chaotic.   All people - adults and children - in the school at any time should be accounted for, registered, known.  I have no problem with that.

                                However, I would be very concerned about my child being in a classroom where the teacher had me removed from visual proximity under the described (or any) circumstances.  



                                Cindy V



                                To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                From: bhillnev@hotmail. com
                                Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:02:43 -0500
                                Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                                 

                                Security concerns, maybe?

                                 

                                From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of MICHELLE WOOD
                                Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:08 PM
                                To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                                 

                                Did you know that it is in the teachers' contract that you have to give advanced notice and get permission to check on your own child at school?  I had no idea.  Today, I stopped at school to pick up mail from the PTA box (I am the PTA treasurer) and decided to peek in to my son's class.  I didn't enter the room, I was simply looking from outside.  There are a bunch of windows along the classroom which are visible from the [empty] pod area.  I was checking in on him for a couple of reasons, the major one being that I had to request that his seat be moved last week after he told me that another child had been spitting on him repeatedly [he is in 1st grade and this child was seated next to him].  At any rate, I wasn't "observing" the classroom in the sense of being in the classroom (I couldn't even hear what was going on).  The teacher saw me looking in and called the office to have me sent away (that is when I was told about the teacher contract).  I was totally shocked and upset.  My son's kindergarten teacher was always so nice and very accomodating when it came to visits/volunteering etc.  I wondered if anyone else had ever had a similar experience. 

                                 

                                Michelle




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                              • MICHELLE WOOD
                                Deborah, That is interesting. It is noteworthy that even though your [private] school has the right to institute such a policy, they still require parental
                                Message 15 of 24 , Dec 8, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  
                                  Deborah,
                                   
                                  That is interesting.  It is noteworthy that even though your [private] school has the right to institute such a policy, they still require parental consent (in the form of a contract that you sign).  I certainly never signed anything like that when enrolling my child in the public school system.  My husband is convinced that the "contract" they referred to only applies to job performance evaluations/observations.  In other words, an administrator cannot surprise the teacher for the purpose of evaluation.  He doesn't think there really is anything that prohibits parents from observing their children if they so desire (or anything that requires parents to seek permission ahead of time).  I think it is the courteous thing to do (to give advanced notice), particularly if you are going to be sitting in the room.  However, I don't think that standing unobtrusively on the other side of a window for a few minutes should require the teacher's permission - or warrant an escort out.
                                   
                                  Michelle
                                   
                                   
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com [mailto:howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Deborah Sell
                                  Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:30 PM
                                  To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                                   

                                  Michelle,
                                   
                                  My daughter is in a non-public program for kids with significant learning disabilities.    There policy is that parents are not allowed to observe their child's classes.      The school has a parent / student contract / code of conduct that is reviewed and signed by all parties each year.
                                  When we challenged the idea that we couldn't observe her classes -- they told us that unlike public schools they could have this ban.    I took their comments to mean that in public school settings, parents could observe their child's classrooms, with or without prior notification and approval.     I know that in her previous public school placement, I often observed her classes.
                                   
                                  Deborah Sell


                                  --- On Mon, 12/7/09, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt @...> wrote:

                                  From: cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt @...>
                                  Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract
                                  To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 9:47 PM

                                   
                                  I know it is very stressful and scary to have a conflict with a person who has access to your child - particularly in the school/teacher setting.

                                  I can only tell you from my own experiences that as horrible and stressful as it was on the occasions when I felt my child was being subjected to unacceptable situations to meet with the administration and register my concerns/complaints and request specific changes -  the changes were made with little resistance ... and though I too worried about repercussions --- I found that my complaints did not come as complete surprises to the administration or the other teachers... and some were pleased to have the complaints they had formalized by a parent.

                                  I hope you will seek some assistance with this problem.  There is a complaint form you can download from the hcpss web site.  I recommend you take the form with you to a meeting with the principal so he/she is aware that you intend to formalize the concern with a paper trail - and have a specific plan on what changes you want to make ... which class you would like him moved to, what oversight you would like to monitor the ongoing math class (or just have him moved into a new one of those too) and by all means - follow up with a formal complaint about the spitting... before your kid retaliates and ends up as the one in trouble.

                                  cindy v



                                  To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                  From: michelle_wood@ verizon.net
                                  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 20:36:03 -0500
                                  Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                                   

                                  I'm not sure I have any choice, other than to remove him from the public school (i.e. home school).  First of all, I have little confidence that any kind of corrective action would be possible (given the teacher contracts) even if I complain.  Even if it were possible, I would then have to worry whether my son would face retribution.  Considering how ugly things got (toward me) when I asked generic questions about a math program, I can only imagine what would happen if I made a specific complaint about the teacher.  I hate to admit this, but I actually requested this teacher because she was supposedly the "best" in the grade.  She is also the above grade level math teacher, so even if I changed his homeroom class he would still have her for math.  On top of all that, she is the "team leader."  What would you suggest I do?  I have been trying to stay on her good side as much as possible (even going so far as to rearrange the schedules of myself, my husband, and my father so I could accomodate her last minute request to reschedule our parent-teacher conference time). 
                                   
                                  I check regularly with my son to make sure he is "ok" in class (while trying to be subtle so he doesn't know why I am asking).  I ask him about his day, who his favorite teacher is, etc. etc.  As long as she only takes out her aggression on me and not him, I feel like that is all I can hope for.  Besides, she supposedly has "policy" on her side. 
                                   
                                  I will say that my husband just told me (as I was about to send this) that he looked up the negotiated agreement between the Howard County Educators Association and the BOE/HCPSS and found no mention of any such policy.  If it is in some other (nonpublic) contract, the public should be able to see the terms of that contract. 
                                   
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of cynthia vaillancourt
                                  Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:36 PM
                                  To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                                   
                                  why are you leaving your child in this class?  

                                  The education process requires cooperation between school and home if it is to be successful.   If the relationship between a parent and a teacher is this contentious, it seems like a move is in order.

                                  cindy v



                                  To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                  From: michelle_wood@ verizon.net
                                  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 19:19:39 -0500
                                  Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                                   

                                  I couldn't agree with you more.  I highly doubt security concerns had any legitimate role in this.  Presumably, the security issue is addressed by locking all but the front entrance and having visitors sign in at the front office.  Of course, that isn't going to stop anyone who is bent on destruction (nor will making them call to say they are coming first), but that is an entirely separate issue. 
                                   
                                  The teacher definitely knows who I am.  When the discussion on "Investigations" math came up on this list at the beginning of the school year, I questioned the program.  That is when her animosity toward me started.  Apparently, she takes great pride in the fact that she lead the push to institute the program at our school and took great offense that I had concerns about it.  Since that time, she has made no effort to hide her contempt toward me.  This, in spite of the fact that I did nothing but ask questions to learn more about the curriculum.  Based on her negative attitude toward me this year, I have to wonder if she would have allowed any other child in her class (besides mine) to be spit on repeatedly without moving either the victim or the offender.  Despite my efforts to bend over backwards to be nice to her, I don't see any kindness in return.  Sadly, I am not at all surprised she would do this to me simply to be hateful or intimidating.  What surprised me is that the county gives her the right to bully parents in this way.  I had no idea that I gave up my parental rights when I put my son on the bus.  Or that I need permission to check in on my own child.  Oh, and the rule only applies to "classroom" visits (keeping in mind that I wasn't actually in the classroom).  I am told that it is ok to come and visit him at lunch without prior permission, so the rule seems to be specifically meant to "protect" teachers from unexpected observations. 
                                   
                                  When I leave my children with a babysitter, I have the right to come back early (unexpectedly) to make sure everything is ok.  Yet, I cannot do the same at school.  It makes me wonder who is looking out for our kids.  What if a teacher is doing something inappropriate in the classroom (or allowing students to do something inappropriate) ?  Such a rule basically protects them from ever being caught - at the expense of the children.  Of course we would all love to believe that every teacher is an upstanding and honorable person, but history tells us this isn't the case.  I can think of many high profile reports of teachers who have done despicable things.  While I am sure most of them are good, no doubt there are some who are dangerous.  I want to be clear that my intent today was NOT to "spy" on the teacher.  I simply wanted to look in on my child for a moment (I even had my 3 year old with me at the time).  But this whole thing got me thinking about the possible ramifications of such a policy. 
                                   
                                  Before the phone call to have me escorted out, I had hand-delivered a note to her so she knew I would be picking my son up instead of having him ride the bus (I had neglected to send it in the morning).  She informed me that in the future I should simply get the note to the office and they would get the message to her.  Based on today's events, she might as well have said "you are not welcome to enter my classroom for any reason."  Supposedly the school encourages parent involvement/ visits/volunteer ism (and it should - this is a Title I school and lack of parent involvement is one of its major challenges).  However, the message I have received over the course of this year from my son's teacher is something completely different. 
                                   
                                   
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of cynthia vaillancourt
                                  Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:08 PM
                                  To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                                   
                                  "security  concerns" have become as overused as "for the children".

                                  When the teacher saw a parent known to him/her - it seems to me the argument of a "security concern" would not be legitimately applied.... unless the security concern is job security.

                                  Parents peeking in can be disruptive to the class.  Parents "roaming the halls" at will could be chaotic.   All people - adults and children - in the school at any time should be accounted for, registered, known.  I have no problem with that.

                                  However, I would be very concerned about my child being in a classroom where the teacher had me removed from visual proximity under the described (or any) circumstances.  



                                  Cindy V



                                  To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                  From: bhillnev@hotmail. com
                                  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:02:43 -0500
                                  Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                                   

                                  Security concerns, maybe?

                                   

                                  From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of MICHELLE WOOD
                                  Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:08 PM
                                  To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract

                                   

                                  Did you know that it is in the teachers' contract that you have to give advanced notice and get permission to check on your own child at school?  I had no idea.  Today, I stopped at school to pick up mail from the PTA box (I am the PTA treasurer) and decided to peek in to my son's class.  I didn't enter the room, I was simply looking from outside.  There are a bunch of windows along the classroom which are visible from the [empty] pod area.  I was checking in on him for a couple of reasons, the major one being that I had to request that his seat be moved last week after he told me that another child had been spitting on him repeatedly [he is in 1st grade and this child was seated next to him].  At any rate, I wasn't "observing" the classroom in the sense of being in the classroom (I couldn't even hear what was going on).  The teacher saw me looking in and called the office to have me sent away (that is when I was told about the teacher contract).  I was totally shocked and upset.  My son's kindergarten teacher was always so nice and very accomodating when it came to visits/volunteering etc.  I wondered if anyone else had ever had a similar experience. 

                                   

                                  Michelle




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                                • pamythompson
                                  I believe that institutionalized is the description that you are searching for . A horrible thing for a parent to witness . Ms Wood you and your husband are
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Dec 8, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I believe that institutionalized is the description that you are searching for . A horrible thing for a parent to witness . Ms Wood you and your husband are your child's primary educator , you have every right as a parent to to be part of every aspect of your childs life and that has been true for millions of years .

                                    We had kids at Glenelg who had issues and when they were in middle school their peers had thought it would be funny to encourage them to do inapropriate things such as sexually assaulting other students (grabbing them etc. ) This behavior continued into high school which resulted in these kids being beat up frequently . This was well known to the staff at Glenelg yet it continued and often without their parents knowledge . When I said something about this to the administration I was told "it's not your child " and after a year of reporting this to the administration as well as telling the parents what was happening to their children it became less frequent .

                                    I have seen retaliation against my children because I questioned what was going on , one of my sons was even assaulted by a teacher at Glenelg and the administration concocted a lie to protect that person and the HCPSS condoned it .

                                    If it can happen to my kid it can happen to yours and it does . Each bad teacher touches 100 plus students per year . At Glenelg in just the ninth grade I know of four teachers that I from experience would not let teach my kids and warn every parent I meet to avoid them . Compound this with bad administration and the situation you describe becomes common .

                                    Jack

                                    --- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "MICHELLE WOOD" <michelle_wood@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Deborah,
                                    >
                                    > That is interesting. It is noteworthy that even though your [private] school has the right to institute such a policy, they still require parental consent (in the form of a contract that you sign). I certainly never signed anything like that when enrolling my child in the public school system. My husband is convinced that the "contract" they referred to only applies to job performance evaluations/observations. In other words, an administrator cannot surprise the teacher for the purpose of evaluation. He doesn't think there really is anything that prohibits parents from observing their children if they so desire (or anything that requires parents to seek permission ahead of time). I think it is the courteous thing to do (to give advanced notice), particularly if you are going to be sitting in the room. However, I don't think that standing unobtrusively on the other side of a window for a few minutes should require the teacher's permission - or warrant an escort out.
                                    >
                                    > Michelle
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com [mailto:howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Deborah Sell
                                    > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:30 PM
                                    > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Michelle,
                                    >
                                    > My daughter is in a non-public program for kids with significant learning disabilities. There policy is that parents are not allowed to observe their child's classes. The school has a parent / student contract / code of conduct that is reviewed and signed by all parties each year.
                                    > When we challenged the idea that we couldn't observe her classes -- they told us that unlike public schools they could have this ban. I took their comments to mean that in public school settings, parents could observe their child's classrooms, with or without prior notification and approval. I know that in her previous public school placement, I often observed her classes.
                                    >
                                    > Deborah Sell
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- On Mon, 12/7/09, cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@...>
                                    > Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract
                                    > To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 9:47 PM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I know it is very stressful and scary to have a conflict with a person who has access to your child - particularly in the school/teacher setting.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I can only tell you from my own experiences that as horrible and stressful as it was on the occasions when I felt my child was being subjected to unacceptable situations to meet with the administration and register my concerns/complaints and request specific changes - the changes were made with little resistance ... and though I too worried about repercussions --- I found that my complaints did not come as complete surprises to the administration or the other teachers... and some were pleased to have the complaints they had formalized by a parent.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I hope you will seek some assistance with this problem. There is a complaint form you can download from the hcpss web site. I recommend you take the form with you to a meeting with the principal so he/she is aware that you intend to formalize the concern with a paper trail - and have a specific plan on what changes you want to make ... which class you would like him moved to, what oversight you would like to monitor the ongoing math class (or just have him moved into a new one of those too) and by all means - follow up with a formal complaint about the spitting... before your kid retaliates and ends up as the one in trouble.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > cindy v
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > From: michelle_wood@ verizon.net
                                    > Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 20:36:03 -0500
                                    > Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I'm not sure I have any choice, other than to remove him from the public school (i.e. home school). First of all, I have little confidence that any kind of corrective action would be possible (given the teacher contracts) even if I complain. Even if it were possible, I would then have to worry whether my son would face retribution. Considering how ugly things got (toward me) when I asked generic questions about a math program, I can only imagine what would happen if I made a specific complaint about the teacher. I hate to admit this, but I actually requested this teacher because she was supposedly the "best" in the grade. She is also the above grade level math teacher, so even if I changed his homeroom class he would still have her for math. On top of all that, she is the "team leader." What would you suggest I do? I have been trying to stay on her good side as much as possible (even going so far as to rearrange the schedules of myself, my husband, and my father so I could accomodate her last minute request to reschedule our parent-teacher conference time).
                                    >
                                    > I check regularly with my son to make sure he is "ok" in class (while trying to be subtle so he doesn't know why I am asking). I ask him about his day, who his favorite teacher is, etc. etc. As long as she only takes out her aggression on me and not him, I feel like that is all I can hope for. Besides, she supposedly has "policy" on her side.
                                    >
                                    > I will say that my husband just told me (as I was about to send this) that he looked up the negotiated agreement between the Howard County Educators Association and the BOE/HCPSS and found no mention of any such policy. If it is in some other (nonpublic) contract, the public should be able to see the terms of that contract.
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of cynthia vaillancourt
                                    > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:36 PM
                                    > To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > why are you leaving your child in this class?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > The education process requires cooperation between school and home if it is to be successful. If the relationship between a parent and a teacher is this contentious, it seems like a move is in order.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > cindy v
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > From: michelle_wood@ verizon.net
                                    > Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 19:19:39 -0500
                                    > Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I couldn't agree with you more. I highly doubt security concerns had any legitimate role in this. Presumably, the security issue is addressed by locking all but the front entrance and having visitors sign in at the front office. Of course, that isn't going to stop anyone who is bent on destruction (nor will making them call to say they are coming first), but that is an entirely separate issue.
                                    >
                                    > The teacher definitely knows who I am. When the discussion on "Investigations" math came up on this list at the beginning of the school year, I questioned the program. That is when her animosity toward me started. Apparently, she takes great pride in the fact that she lead the push to institute the program at our school and took great offense that I had concerns about it. Since that time, she has made no effort to hide her contempt toward me. This, in spite of the fact that I did nothing but ask questions to learn more about the curriculum. Based on her negative attitude toward me this year, I have to wonder if she would have allowed any other child in her class (besides mine) to be spit on repeatedly without moving either the victim or the offender. Despite my efforts to bend over backwards to be nice to her, I don't see any kindness in return. Sadly, I am not at all surprised she would do this to me simply to be hateful or intimidating. What surprised me is that the county gives her the right to bully parents in this way. I had no idea that I gave up my parental rights when I put my son on the bus. Or that I need permission to check in on my own child. Oh, and the rule only applies to "classroom" visits (keeping in mind that I wasn't actually in the classroom). I am told that it is ok to come and visit him at lunch without prior permission, so the rule seems to be specifically meant to "protect" teachers from unexpected observations.
                                    >
                                    > When I leave my children with a babysitter, I have the right to come back early (unexpectedly) to make sure everything is ok. Yet, I cannot do the same at school. It makes me wonder who is looking out for our kids. What if a teacher is doing something inappropriate in the classroom (or allowing students to do something inappropriate) ? Such a rule basically protects them from ever being caught - at the expense of the children. Of course we would all love to believe that every teacher is an upstanding and honorable person, but history tells us this isn't the case. I can think of many high profile reports of teachers who have done despicable things. While I am sure most of them are good, no doubt there are some who are dangerous. I want to be clear that my intent today was NOT to "spy" on the teacher. I simply wanted to look in on my child for a moment (I even had my 3 year old with me at the time). But this whole thing got me thinking about the possible ramifications of such a policy.
                                    >
                                    > Before the phone call to have me escorted out, I had hand-delivered a note to her so she knew I would be picking my son up instead of having him ride the bus (I had neglected to send it in the morning). She informed me that in the future I should simply get the note to the office and they would get the message to her. Based on today's events, she might as well have said "you are not welcome to enter my classroom for any reason." Supposedly the school encourages parent involvement/ visits/volunteer ism (and it should - this is a Title I school and lack of parent involvement is one of its major challenges). However, the message I have received over the course of this year from my son's teacher is something completely different.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of cynthia vaillancourt
                                    > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:08 PM
                                    > To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > "security concerns" have become as overused as "for the children".
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > When the teacher saw a parent known to him/her - it seems to me the argument of a "security concern" would not be legitimately applied.... unless the security concern is job security.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Parents peeking in can be disruptive to the class. Parents "roaming the halls" at will could be chaotic. All people - adults and children - in the school at any time should be accounted for, registered, known. I have no problem with that.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > However, I would be very concerned about my child being in a classroom where the teacher had me removed from visual proximity under the described (or any) circumstances.
                                    >
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                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Cindy V
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > From: bhillnev@hotmail. com
                                    > Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:02:43 -0500
                                    > Subject: RE: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Security concerns, maybe?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:howardpubli ced@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of MICHELLE WOOD
                                    > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:08 PM
                                    > To: howardpubliced@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > Subject: [howardpubliced] Teacher Contract
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Did you know that it is in the teachers' contract that you have to give advanced notice and get permission to check on your own child at school? I had no idea. Today, I stopped at school to pick up mail from the PTA box (I am the PTA treasurer) and decided to peek in to my son's class. I didn't enter the room, I was simply looking from outside. There are a bunch of windows along the classroom which are visible from the [empty] pod area. I was checking in on him for a couple of reasons, the major one being that I had to request that his seat be moved last week after he told me that another child had been spitting on him repeatedly [he is in 1st grade and this child was seated next to him]. At any rate, I wasn't "observing" the classroom in the sense of being in the classroom (I couldn't even hear what was going on). The teacher saw me looking in and called the office to have me sent away (that is when I was told about the teacher contract). I was totally shocked and upset. My son's kindergarten teacher was always so nice and very accomodating when it came to visits/volunteering etc. I wondered if anyone else had ever had a similar experience.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Michelle
                                    >
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                                    >
                                    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                  • churchillclustercoordinator
                                    Here is an interesting post from Carroll County where apparently Montgomery County Public School staff members have been lobbying the Carroll County student
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Dec 11, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      Here is an interesting post from Carroll County where apparently Montgomery County Public School staff members have been lobbying the Carroll County student government on the issue of expanding student Board members voting rights.

                                      http://davewallace.ning.com/profiles/blogs/alert-board-of-ed-wants

                                      Janis Sartucci

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