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OK, I'm here, the party can begin

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  • ld_andrew_macleod
    Made it to the new list :) Andrew
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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      Made it to the new list :)

      Andrew
    • Bob Gillespie
      Thats all we were waiting on! Now we can turn out the lights and let the party begin! GEoff
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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        Thats all we were waiting on!   Now we can turn out the lights and let the party begin!

        GEoff

        On 1/30/07, ld_andrew_macleod < TheGreybeard@...> wrote:

        Made it to the new list :)

        Andrew


      • Greg & Audrey Epple
        I m here, too, but I haven t decided whether it will be permanent or not. I d like to know what s going on first. It seems like sweeping changes were made
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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          I'm here, too, but I haven't decided whether it will be permanent or not.  I'd like to know what's going on first.

          It seems like sweeping changes were made recently without advance notification or a chance for proxy voting.  Can anyone enlighten me?

          Yseult
        • MICHAEL MILLER
          Ok I m here my name is Grimarr Ivarsson I live in Flintmarsh and this is my first year at Chalice Challenge and it was great I had a blast . Grimarr Ivarson
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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            Ok I'm here my name is Grimarr Ivarsson I live in Flintmarsh and this is my first year at Chalice Challenge and it was great I had a blast .


            Grimarr Ivarson
            Loyal Fledgeling in Service to House FalconRose
            Eastern Keep  Kingdom of Meridies
            Deputy Seneschal Incipient Shire of Flintmarsh
            Kingdom of Merides

            Like a mighty hunter may you find what you seek in life


            No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
            with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
          • Greg & Audrey Epple
            The ideas are sound, no doubt. However, they were not made clear before now. A better means of determining a concensus might have been to post a letter on the
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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              The ideas are sound, no doubt.  However, they were not made clear before now.

              A better means of determining a concensus might have been to post a letter on the old list asking for votes.  Those who cared enough could vote by a deadline date.  Those who didn't could ignore the post.  I understand the Witan doesn't work, but my fingers still do.  ;-)

              My absence at Chalice was unavoidable, but no announcement of new procedures, structure, etc. was made in advance, so I sent no proxy vote.  Considering that I've donated a decade's worth of a fair share of efforts on behalf of the Consortium, I would have liked a vote in this, or at least to have my voice heard.  I think some concerns and possible consequences have been overlooked.

              If my help is needed, you have it.  
              Yseult
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:33 PM
              Subject: Re: [householdconsortium] OK, I'm here, the party can begin

              I am here as well.
               
              Changes have been made. Yes the big one was my idea, so folks dont' get mad at our Warden. Is there anyone on this list who does not consider any other Consortiumite Kin?
               
               Basically we've been a "household of Shires" since our founding. My logic in changing us to a "household" is that we are percieved by some in our Kingdom as being sepratists. This has caused much hard feelings over the years and has in my opinion held back some very fine folks. If these folks look down on  us now, they must be prepared to have their own Houses examined in the same way or at least be prepared to be held accountable if by no one else, Me.
               
              The structre we now have allows us to perform in the exact same way as we did before, except with even more freedom. This allows people like Owen and Lochlann to remain active contributing members of the Consortium even though their Shire Leadership  is opposed to Consortium Membership. 

              We also discussed removing the War-leader position and encourage our Fighters to attend any and all Cohort practices as part of the Meridian Army. We can still get together with old friends once a year and hold Chalice Challenge and as many Quarterly practices open to everyone as Marco can Stomach.

              I personally don't know how we would have gotten a fair consensus on this. I've watched apathy grow to such a point that Not one Seneschal on the Witan Council would speak to Ld Andrew when he was Warden. Maegwynn faced similar struggles. I think it took what 3 months of her calling various Shire Seneschals to get the last big consensus. This way, we can appoint an Elder from a Geographical region of the Consortium. This person would of course  would be enthusiastic about the Consortium. That in itself will do much to alleviate Apathy. I've surveyed three surrounding Consortium Shires recently. Each has new people. Most of the new folks don't even  have a clue as to what the Consortium is. I personally blame this on the folks in their groups who should be showing the way. To get an honest totally fair oppinion, James would have to speak to each and every individual in the Consortium. Seeing as how many people on our old list are not even Consortium Members and so few people attend Chalice Challenge, I don't see how this would be feasible.
               
              Also our old  list is inundated with people who's stance  and position we can't fathom. If  you are on this list, You are a Consortium Member and at least cared enough to try to stay up with current events in it.
               
              James, Thanks for stepping up when you did. I was about to volunteer. My eloquence during this transititon would not have been nearly as smooth as yours. Geoffrey and Yseult Thanks for being here for us.
               
              Lets not have any strangers or lurkers on this list. If you are here, then you care. Please announce your prescence and introduce yourself and give a brief  history of your experiences with the Consortium.
               
              Michael.
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:38 PM
              Subject: Re: [householdconsortiu m] OK, I'm here, the party can begin

              I'm here, too, but I haven't decided whether it will be permanent or not.  I'd like to know what's going on first.

              It seems like sweeping changes were made recently without advance notification or a chance for proxy voting.  Can anyone enlighten me?

              Yseult

            • bjarni3@netzero.net
              Can t I just lurk a little. I am up in the middle kingdom. But I like to keep track of you guys. Bjarni Anders
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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                Can't I just lurk a little. I am up in the middle kingdom. But I like to keep track of you guys.

                Bjarni Anders

              • isabellapoliziana
                Never tell a rebel that they HAVE to do something, it just instills in them the desire to run full speed in the opposite direction. :D I have no history with
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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                  Never tell a rebel that they HAVE to do something, it just instills in
                  them the desire to run full speed in the opposite direction. :D
                  I have no history with the Consortium other that what I have read in
                  the past year (And winning the performing arts thing at the Chalice <
                  curtsey>), however, I do consider myself to be part of it. Hence, I am
                  here.

                  Isabella Poliziana
                  Herald of Flint Marsh



                  > Lets not have any strangers or lurkers on this list. If you are here,
                  then you care. Please announce your prescence and introduce yourself
                  and give a brief history of your experiences with the Consortium.
                • Mike Moulton
                  I am here as well. Changes have been made. Yes the big one was my idea, so folks dont get mad at our Warden. Is there anyone on this list who does not
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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                    I am here as well.
                     
                    Changes have been made. Yes the big one was my idea, so folks dont' get mad at our Warden. Is there anyone on this list who does not consider any other Consortiumite Kin?
                     
                     Basically we've been a "household of Shires" since our founding. My logic in changing us to a "household" is that we are percieved by some in our Kingdom as being sepratists. This has caused much hard feelings over the years and has in my opinion held back some very fine folks. If these folks look down on  us now, they must be prepared to have their own Houses examined in the same way or at least be prepared to be held accountable if by no one else, Me.
                     
                    The structre we now have allows us to perform in the exact same way as we did before, except with even more freedom. This allows people like Owen and Lochlann to remain active contributing members of the Consortium even though their Shire Leadership  is opposed to Consortium Membership. 

                    We also discussed removing the War-leader position and encourage our Fighters to attend any and all Cohort practices as part of the Meridian Army. We can still get together with old friends once a year and hold Chalice Challenge and as many Quarterly practices open to everyone as Marco can Stomach.

                    I personally don't know how we would have gotten a fair consensus on this. I've watched apathy grow to such a point that Not one Seneschal on the Witan Council would speak to Ld Andrew when he was Warden. Maegwynn faced similar struggles. I think it took what 3 months of her calling various Shire Seneschals to get the last big consensus. This way, we can appoint an Elder from a Geographical region of the Consortium. This person would of course  would be enthusiastic about the Consortium. That in itself will do much to alleviate Apathy. I've surveyed three surrounding Consortium Shires recently. Each has new people. Most of the new folks don't even  have a clue as to what the Consortium is. I personally blame this on the folks in their groups who should be showing the way. To get an honest totally fair oppinion, James would have to speak to each and every individual in the Consortium. Seeing as how many people on our old list are not even Consortium Members and so few people attend Chalice Challenge, I don't see how this would be feasible.
                     
                    Also our old  list is inundated with people who's stance  and position we can't fathom. If  you are on this list, You are a Consortium Member and at least cared enough to try to stay up with current events in it.
                     
                    James, Thanks for stepping up when you did. I was about to volunteer. My eloquence during this transititon would not have been nearly as smooth as yours. Geoffrey and Yseult Thanks for being here for us.
                     
                    Lets not have any strangers or lurkers on this list. If you are here, then you care. Please announce your prescence and introduce yourself and give a brief  history of your experiences with the Consortium.
                     
                    Michael.
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:38 PM
                    Subject: Re: [householdconsortium] OK, I'm here, the party can begin

                    I'm here, too, but I haven't decided whether it will be permanent or not.  I'd like to know what's going on first.

                    It seems like sweeping changes were made recently without advance notification or a chance for proxy voting.  Can anyone enlighten me?

                    Yseult

                  • cainjc
                    My absence at Chalice was unavoidable, but no announcement of new procedures, structure, etc. was made in advance, so I sent no proxy vote. Considering that
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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                      My absence at Chalice was unavoidable, but no announcement of new
                      procedures, structure, etc. was made in advance, so I sent no proxy
                      vote. Considering that I've donated a decade's worth of a fair share
                      of efforts on behalf of the Consortium, I would have liked a vote in
                      this, or at least to have my voice heard. I think some concerns and
                      possible consequences have been overlooked.



                      Mistress Yesult. I would like to know what your mentioned consequences
                      and concerns are. I would also like to hear what suggestions you have
                      as to how to continue.

                      Yours in service,
                      Ld James
                    • goldnsilent
                      Gee whiz even I m here, though I will have to fight the urge to lurk. I m Ldy.Viviana Fiorentina from the shire of Flint Marsh, but most people in the SCA know
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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                        Gee whiz even I'm here, though I will have to fight the urge to lurk.
                        I'm Ldy.Viviana Fiorentina from the shire of Flint Marsh, but most
                        people in the SCA know me only as Moltan's wife. I'm a lurker by
                        nature, even in the flesh. Are we having fun yet?

                        Viv

                        --- In householdconsortium@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Moulton"
                        <moltan@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I am here as well.
                        >
                        > Changes have been made. Yes the big one was my idea, so folks dont'
                        get mad at our Warden. Is there anyone on this list who does not
                        consider any other Consortiumite Kin?
                        >
                        > Basically we've been a "household of Shires" since our founding.
                        My logic in changing us to a "household" is that we are percieved by
                        some in our Kingdom as being sepratists. This has caused much hard
                        feelings over the years and has in my opinion held back some very
                        fine folks. If these folks look down on us now, they must be
                        prepared to have their own Houses examined in the same way or at
                        least be prepared to be held accountable if by no one else, Me.
                        >
                        > The structre we now have allows us to perform in the exact same way
                        as we did before, except with even more freedom. This allows people
                        like Owen and Lochlann to remain active contributing members of the
                        Consortium even though their Shire Leadership is opposed to
                        Consortium Membership.
                        >
                        > We also discussed removing the War-leader position and encourage
                        our Fighters to attend any and all Cohort practices as part of the
                        Meridian Army. We can still get together with old friends once a year
                        and hold Chalice Challenge and as many Quarterly practices open to
                        everyone as Marco can Stomach.
                        >
                        > I personally don't know how we would have gotten a fair consensus
                        on this. I've watched apathy grow to such a point that Not one
                        Seneschal on the Witan Council would speak to Ld Andrew when he was
                        Warden. Maegwynn faced similar struggles. I think it took what 3
                        months of her calling various Shire Seneschals to get the last big
                        consensus. This way, we can appoint an Elder from a Geographical
                        region of the Consortium. This person would of course would be
                        enthusiastic about the Consortium. That in itself will do much to
                        alleviate Apathy. I've surveyed three surrounding Consortium Shires
                        recently. Each has new people. Most of the new folks don't even have
                        a clue as to what the Consortium is. I personally blame this on the
                        folks in their groups who should be showing the way. To get an honest
                        totally fair oppinion, James would have to speak to each and every
                        individual in the Consortium. Seeing as how many people on our old
                        list are not even Consortium Members and so few people attend Chalice
                        Challenge, I don't see how this would be feasible.
                        >
                        > Also our old list is inundated with people who's stance and
                        position we can't fathom. If you are on this list, You are a
                        Consortium Member and at least cared enough to try to stay up with
                        current events in it.
                        >
                        > James, Thanks for stepping up when you did. I was about to
                        volunteer. My eloquence during this transititon would not have been
                        nearly as smooth as yours. Geoffrey and Yseult Thanks for being here
                        for us.
                        >
                        > Lets not have any strangers or lurkers on this list. If you are
                        here, then you care. Please announce your prescence and introduce
                        yourself and give a brief history of your experiences with the
                        Consortium.
                        >
                        > Michael.
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Greg & Audrey Epple
                        > To: householdconsortium@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:38 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [householdconsortium] OK, I'm here, the party can
                        begin
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I'm here, too, but I haven't decided whether it will be permanent
                        or not. I'd like to know what's going on first.
                        >
                        > It seems like sweeping changes were made recently without advance
                        notification or a chance for proxy voting. Can anyone enlighten me?
                        >
                        > Yseult
                        >
                      • cainjc
                        As I said, It was my idea. My one failure in this endeavor was to stress to our new Warden the importance or significance even of getting a vote. Honestly in
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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                          As I said, It was my idea. My one failure in this endeavor was to
                          stress to our new Warden the importance or significance even of
                          getting a vote. Honestly in my opinion, I did not see us as
                          functioning well enough to get honest,sincere input from many people.
                          In the old days, policy was determined by a Council of Seneschales
                          (or anyone representing their own shires) I kind of saw what we did
                          Saturday as being like that.

                          I am sorrry my ideas got out of hand and were enacted too quickly for
                          some.Like I've said in the past when I have to be political, I use a
                          sledge hammer. James, you can always say you were swayed by these
                          exciting ideas, and request a vote on the old list. The Create Poll
                          feature is handy for this kind of thing.

                          James, I apologize for not expressing the need to get a consensus
                          first.I was hit in the head a great deal that day and was in
                          partiuclarly grasping for anything which might combat the apathy
                          we've been suffering under.



                          Where as I do agree I should have been a little better informed about
                          Consortium policy it is also my responsiblity to find out about it
                          myself. I made the choice to follow through with this because I also
                          concured with the rest of those present that this was a good idea. I
                          realized that toes would be stepped on. I still stand by the
                          decision that has been made but I am also open to suggestions and
                          comments on how we should continue.

                          Yours in Sevice,
                          Ld James
                        • Greg & Audrey Epple
                          James wrote: Mistress Yesult. I would like to know what your mentioned consequences and concerns are. I would also like to hear what suggestions you have as
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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                            James wrote:
                            "Mistress Yesult. I would like to know what your mentioned consequences
                            and concerns are. I would also like to hear what suggestions you have
                            as to how to continue."

                            Certainly. I'm past bedtime, so I will be brief for now and only highlight
                            those things I find most vital.

                            The Consortium has always been a democratic organization. Unilateral
                            decisions (made by 5-10% of our total populace) belie our traditions, and
                            frankly, make some of us who were not consulted feel as if our opinions are
                            not wanted. Theahtyn said it best just now on our old list, so I will leave
                            this thought dangling.

                            I will, however, note that the comment: "Other important desicions were made
                            and they will be addressed later in individual posts" worries me immensely.
                            I *really* want to hear this clarified.

                            Wide-open membership allows that SCA members from any area of the Kingdom
                            (or perhaps even other Kingdoms) may join. It's a nice thought, but totally
                            impractical, given our goals. If our aim is one of support, the radius of
                            influence should be feasable.

                            In any political organization (which we are, household or not), clear rules
                            or traditions are important. I have seen no qualifiers for membership
                            location, goals of the group, voting procedures, etc. This decision and the
                            less-than-informative communications seem impulsive. Such methods will, in
                            my opinion and by my experience, lead us right back down the same path we're
                            trying to escape.

                            I would suggest rewording the original post to *ask* (not *tell*) about
                            these new ideas. Seek concensus.

                            I will talk with you privately about other concerns.
                            Yseult
                          • Greg & Audrey Epple
                            James wrote: Where as I do agree I should have been a little better informed about Consortium policy it is also my responsiblity to find out about it myself.
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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                              James wrote:
                              "Where as I do agree I should have been a little better informed about
                              Consortium policy it is also my responsiblity to find out about it
                              myself. I made the choice to follow through with this because I also
                              concured with the rest of those present that this was a good idea. I
                              realized that toes would be stepped on. I still stand by the
                              decision that has been made but I am also open to suggestions and
                              comments on how we should continue."

                              I'd like to point out that there is a major difference between "toes being
                              stepped on" and stripping people of their rights. This creature that many
                              of us veterans have nurtured and fed and helped to evolve had, as its most
                              vital aspect, an inherent right at equal voice, and that has been suddenly
                              removed. Our organization and our rights within it seem to have been taken
                              away from us within a weekend.

                              I'd also like to point out that there is no decision if the majority of the
                              population disagrees. If the people choose to keep our Consortium and our
                              old list, no one can stop us from doing so. I could go to Flintmarsh (for
                              example) today and say, "your group doesn't exist anymore, and from now on
                              we will do things *this* way," but that doesn't make it so.

                              While I honestly like the new proposed changes, at least the cohort
                              involvement and individual-based membership, I will leave the Consortium in
                              a heartbeat if decisions continue to be made without concensus.

                              Yseult
                            • Mike Moulton
                              Lurk all you want old pal, just don t expect many of us to be able to come support your event, unless you are autocratting Border Raids... Michael ... From:
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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                                Lurk all you want old pal, just don't expect many of us to be able to come support your event, unless you are autocratting Border Raids...

                                Michael
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:14 PM
                                Subject: Re: [householdconsortium] OK, I'm here, the party can begin

                                Can't I just lurk a little. I am up in the middle kingdom. But I like to keep track of you guys.

                                Bjarni Anders

                              • Mike Moulton
                                As I said, It was my idea. My one failure in this endeavor was to stress to our new Warden the importance or significance even of getting a vote. Honestly in
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jan 30, 2007
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                                  As I said, It was my idea. My one failure in this endeavor was to stress to our new Warden the importance or significance even of getting a vote. Honestly in my opinion, I did not see us as functioning well enough to get honest,sincere input from many people.
                                  In the old days, policy was determined by a Council of Seneschales (or anyone representing their own shires) I kind of saw what we did Saturday as being like that.
                                   
                                  I am sorrry my ideas got out of hand and were enacted too quickly for some.Like I've said in the past when I have to be political, I use a sledge hammer. James, you can always say you were swayed by these exciting ideas, and request a vote on the old list. The Create Poll feature is handy for this kind of thing.
                                   
                                  James, I apologize for not expressing the need to get a consensus first.I was hit in the head a great deal that day and was in partiuclarly grasping for anything which might combat the apathy we've been suffering under.
                                   
                                  Michael
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:00 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [householdconsortium] OK, I'm here, the party can begin

                                  The ideas are sound, no doubt.  However, they were not made clear before now.

                                  A better means of determining a concensus might have been to post a letter on the old list asking for votes.  Those who cared enough could vote by a deadline date.  Those who didn't could ignore the post.  I understand the Witan doesn't work, but my fingers still do.  ;-)

                                  My absence at Chalice was unavoidable, but no announcement of new procedures, structure, etc. was made in advance, so I sent no proxy vote.  Considering that I've donated a decade's worth of a fair share of efforts on behalf of the Consortium, I would have liked a vote in this, or at least to have my voice heard.  I think some concerns and possible consequences have been overlooked.

                                  If my help is needed, you have it.  
                                  Yseult
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:33 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [householdconsortiu m] OK, I'm here, the party can begin

                                  I am here as well.
                                   
                                  Changes have been made. Yes the big one was my idea, so folks dont' get mad at our Warden. Is there anyone on this list who does not consider any other Consortiumite Kin?
                                   
                                   Basically we've been a "household of Shires" since our founding. My logic in changing us to a "household" is that we are percieved by some in our Kingdom as being sepratists. This has caused much hard feelings over the years and has in my opinion held back some very fine folks. If these folks look down on  us now, they must be prepared to have their own Houses examined in the same way or at least be prepared to be held accountable if by no one else, Me.
                                   
                                  The structre we now have allows us to perform in the exact same way as we did before, except with even more freedom. This allows people like Owen and Lochlann to remain active contributing members of the Consortium even though their Shire Leadership  is opposed to Consortium Membership. 

                                  We also discussed removing the War-leader position and encourage our Fighters to attend any and all Cohort practices as part of the Meridian Army. We can still get together with old friends once a year and hold Chalice Challenge and as many Quarterly practices open to everyone as Marco can Stomach.

                                  I personally don't know how we would have gotten a fair consensus on this. I've watched apathy grow to such a point that Not one Seneschal on the Witan Council would speak to Ld Andrew when he was Warden. Maegwynn faced similar struggles. I think it took what 3 months of her calling various Shire Seneschals to get the last big consensus. This way, we can appoint an Elder from a Geographical region of the Consortium. This person would of course  would be enthusiastic about the Consortium. That in itself will do much to alleviate Apathy. I've surveyed three surrounding Consortium Shires recently. Each has new people. Most of the new folks don't even  have a clue as to what the Consortium is. I personally blame this on the folks in their groups who should be showing the way. To get an honest totally fair oppinion, James would have to speak to each and every individual in the Consortium. Seeing as how many people on our old list are not even Consortium Members and so few people attend Chalice Challenge, I don't see how this would be feasible.
                                   
                                  Also our old  list is inundated with people who's stance  and position we can't fathom. If  you are on this list, You are a Consortium Member and at least cared enough to try to stay up with current events in it.
                                   
                                  James, Thanks for stepping up when you did. I was about to volunteer. My eloquence during this transititon would not have been nearly as smooth as yours. Geoffrey and Yseult Thanks for being here for us.
                                   
                                  Lets not have any strangers or lurkers on this list. If you are here, then you care. Please announce your prescence and introduce yourself and give a brief  history of your experiences with the Consortium.
                                   
                                  Michael.
                                   
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:38 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [householdconsortiu m] OK, I'm here, the party can begin

                                  I'm here, too, but I haven't decided whether it will be permanent or not.  I'd like to know what's going on first.

                                  It seems like sweeping changes were made recently without advance notification or a chance for proxy voting.  Can anyone enlighten me?

                                  Yseult

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