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Eclipse / Europa (3.3) is out

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  • dysinger
    I didn t notice until now but Eclipse 3.3 was released last week. Along with 3.3 is the coordinated annual release of all of Eclipse s 21 sub-projects.
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 6, 2007
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      I didn't notice until now but Eclipse 3.3 was released last week.

      Along with 3.3 is the coordinated annual release of all of Eclipse's
      21 sub-projects.

      http://www.eclipse.org/europa/

      Eclipse was released 1.0 to the public almost 6 years ago now. It's
      still the best workbench IMO and keeps getting better.

      -Tim
    • piikoicoder
      Is there any chance that Eclipse would be of interest for a monthly meeting? I wish I could offer to teach it, but can t. And, while I realize the value of
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 6, 2007
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        Is there any chance that Eclipse would be of interest for a monthly
        meeting? I wish I could offer to teach it, but can't.

        And, while I realize the value of things like Ruby on Rails, I am most
        interested in development in "pure" Java.

        Thanks,
        George

        PS: Or does anyone know of any classes anywhere I could attend to
        better master Eclipse?
      • J. David Beutel
        ... Eclipse is not my favorite IDE, but I am forced to use it sometimes, so I welcome any improvements. Here is a page with New links describing the
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 6, 2007
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          dysinger wrote:
          > I didn't notice until now but Eclipse 3.3 was released last week.
          >
          > Along with 3.3 is the coordinated annual release of all of Eclipse's
          > 21 sub-projects.
          >
          > http://www.eclipse.org/europa/
          >
          > Eclipse was released 1.0 to the public almost 6 years ago now. It's
          > still the best workbench IMO and keeps getting better.
          >

          Eclipse is not my favorite IDE, but I am forced to use it sometimes, so
          I welcome any improvements. Here is a page with "New" links describing
          the improvements in this release. (It's just one click in from Europa,
          but I felt some frustration searching www.eclipse.org for it, much like
          I feel when using Eclipse itself.)

          http://www.eclipse.org/europa/projects.php

          One improvement of note is that they say they finally started signing
          their own plugins.

          Cheers,
          11011011
        • J. David Beutel
          ... For Java web development, I recommend trying IntelliJ IDEA. I find it a lot easier than Eclipse to learn and use. If you like it and want to keep using
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 6, 2007
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            piikoicoder wrote:
            > Is there any chance that Eclipse would be of interest for a monthly
            > meeting? I wish I could offer to teach it, but can't.
            >
            > And, while I realize the value of things like Ruby on Rails, I am most
            > interested in development in "pure" Java.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > George
            >
            > PS: Or does anyone know of any classes anywhere I could attend to
            > better master Eclipse?
            >

            For Java web development, I recommend trying IntelliJ IDEA. I find it a
            lot easier than Eclipse to learn and use. If you like it and want to
            keep using it, however, it isn't free (unless you're using it for an
            open-source project).

            It's one thing to master Eclipse because your job requires Eclipse, but
            if you have a choice then you don't need to do it the hard way.

            Cheers,
            11011011
          • Sam Joseph
            ... I think the new release could be a topic for a meeting if someone wanted to present it. I m not sure how significant the changes are in the new release.
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 6, 2007
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              piikoicoder wrote:
              > Is there any chance that Eclipse would be of interest for a monthly
              > meeting? I wish I could offer to teach it, but can't.
              >
              I think the new release could be a topic for a meeting if someone wanted
              to present it. I'm not sure how significant the changes are in the new
              release.
              > PS: Or does anyone know of any classes anywhere I could attend to
              > better master Eclipse?
              Philip Johnson teaches software engineering classes that use eclipse
              which would be something you could attend if you are enrolled in UH.

              http://csdl.ics.hawaii.edu/~johnson/

              CHEERS> SAM

              --
              Sam Joseph, Ph.D.
              Co-Director
              Laboratory for Interactive Learning Technologies
              Department of Information and Computer Sciences
              University of Hawaii
            • Sam Joseph
              Personally I ve never found eclipse that hard. I ve always been able to do with it pretty much what I want. The learning curve that I had at the beginning
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 6, 2007
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                Personally I've never found eclipse that hard. I've always been able to
                do with it pretty much what I want. The learning curve that I had at
                the beginning was realising that any coding has to be done in the
                context of a project, but after I understood that I found it to be much
                better than other IDEs I had tried at the time such as Borland.

                I played a little with IntelliJ and David and I have discussed this a
                number of times before, but I have never quite got the difference
                between the two of them ... at least for my coding purposes ... :-)

                CHEERS> SAM

                J. David Beutel wrote:
                > It's one thing to master Eclipse because your job requires Eclipse, but
                > if you have a choice then you don't need to do it the hard way.
                >


                --
                Sam Joseph, Ph.D.
                Co-Director
                Laboratory for Interactive Learning Technologies
                Department of Information and Computer Sciences
                University of Hawaii
              • Ben Munat
                Hmm, I learned Eclipse first and when I tried to use IDEA I found it confusing and difficult... and ultimately not worth spending $250 on. And actually, my
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 6, 2007
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                  Hmm, I learned Eclipse first and when I tried to use IDEA I found it confusing and difficult... and
                  ultimately not worth spending $250 on. And actually, my employer even offered to buy it for me. But
                  I couldn't see asking them to spend money on something I wouldn't stick with.

                  Eclipse sometimes annoys me, but then again there are very few pieces of software (or hardware!)
                  that don't do something stupid at some time or another. Yes it's also a memory hog... but RAM isn't
                  particularly expensive anymore and having lots of RAM helps with other stuff too.

                  But ultimately, IDE preference is one of those deeply personal choices... there is no right or
                  wrong. Eclipse, IDEA, and NetBeans all have their good points and bad points (heck, for that matter
                  there are lots of people who are most productive in VI or Emacs).

                  To the OP, I don't think you need a class to learn Eclipse. Yeah, there's a lot of potential
                  features to learn but you don't need to know all that to do basic Java editing. Just try to learn
                  one new feature a day.

                  The eclipse lingo ("perspectives", "views", etc.) can be a bit overwhelming at first. Just think of
                  "perspective" as "use of the IDE"... like am I using it for Java or Ruby (there are Java and Ruby
                  perspectives. Views are the pieces of the UI: the file browser (Navigator or Package Manager, which
                  is a Java-specific file browser), the Console, the Errors list, etc.

                  If you download eclipse, unzip it and run it, the first screen is a help screen with tutorials and
                  information. There are also lots of tutorials on the web. Feel free to post questions here too.

                  Ben

                  J. David Beutel wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > piikoicoder wrote:
                  > > Is there any chance that Eclipse would be of interest for a monthly
                  > > meeting? I wish I could offer to teach it, but can't.
                  > >
                  > > And, while I realize the value of things like Ruby on Rails, I am most
                  > > interested in development in "pure" Java.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > > George
                  > >
                  > > PS: Or does anyone know of any classes anywhere I could attend to
                  > > better master Eclipse?
                  > >
                  >
                  > For Java web development, I recommend trying IntelliJ IDEA. I find it a
                  > lot easier than Eclipse to learn and use. If you like it and want to
                  > keep using it, however, it isn't free (unless you're using it for an
                  > open-source project).
                  >
                  > It's one thing to master Eclipse because your job requires Eclipse, but
                  > if you have a choice then you don't need to do it the hard way.
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  > 11011011
                  >
                  >
                • J. David Beutel
                  Yes, if you find Eclipse easy to learn and use, and you are satisfied with its features and productivity, then there is no need for you to look at anything
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 6, 2007
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                    Yes, if you find Eclipse easy to learn and use, and you are satisfied
                    with its features and productivity, then there is no need for you to
                    look at anything else. Or, if you have already mastered Eclipse, then
                    there is no advantage to learning another IDE (in the short run).

                    And, if you need to use Eclipse, then you might be happier if you don't
                    have much experience with the alternatives. It's like, if you need to
                    program in C, then you might be happier if you don't have much
                    experience programming in Java. Of course, some people have experience
                    in both C and Java and still prefer C anyway. It's partly subjective.

                    Cheers,
                    11011011

                    Sam Joseph wrote:
                    > Personally I've never found eclipse that hard. I've always been able to
                    > do with it pretty much what I want. The learning curve that I had at
                    > the beginning was realising that any coding has to be done in the
                    > context of a project, but after I understood that I found it to be much
                    > better than other IDEs I had tried at the time such as Borland.
                    >
                    > I played a little with IntelliJ and David and I have discussed this a
                    > number of times before, but I have never quite got the difference
                    > between the two of them ... at least for my coding purposes ... :-)
                    >
                    > CHEERS> SAM
                    >
                    > J. David Beutel wrote:
                    >
                    >> It's one thing to master Eclipse because your job requires Eclipse, but
                    >> if you have a choice then you don't need to do it the hard way.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Eraticus Majoricus
                    ... Or you want to write something besides yet another Web Application . Long live C. Long live vi.
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 6, 2007
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                      >
                      > And, if you need to use Eclipse, then you might be happier if you don't
                      > have much experience with the alternatives. It's like, if you need to
                      > program in C, then you might be happier if you don't have much
                      > experience programming in Java. Of course, some people have experience
                      > in both C and Java and still prefer C anyway. It's partly subjective.
                      >

                      Or you want to write something besides yet another "Web Application".

                      Long live C.
                      Long live vi.
                    • J. David Beutel
                      ... This comes back to the topic in a roundabout way. There s vi the key bindings and modes, and then there s vi the editor (with vim being the most prolific
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 6, 2007
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                        Eraticus Majoricus wrote:
                        > Long live vi.
                        >

                        This comes back to the topic in a roundabout way. There's vi the key
                        bindings and modes, and then there's vi the editor (with vim being the
                        most prolific and powerful incarnation at the moment, as far as I
                        know). When I was programming in C, I thought that IDEs were for the
                        weak: the vi ctags were enough for me, and I didn't want to lose the
                        power I had on the command line. I changed my mind once I started using
                        refactoring IDEs with Java, but I still prefer the vi editing mode.

                        Eclipse and IntelliJ don't ship with vi bindings, but they do have
                        3rd-party plugins for that. The last time I tried the Eclipse vi plugin
                        (over 4 years ago), it didn't work very well (not as well as IntelliJ's,
                        anyway). I counted that against Eclipse. That plugin isn't free
                        anymore, but have any vi users tried it lately? If it's worth trying
                        again, then I wouldn't mind taking the time and maybe ultimately
                        shelling out the $20. (And, did Tim suggest that NetBeans does ship
                        with a vi binding?)

                        This reminds me of what I thought when windows came out: real
                        programmers only need an 80x24 character terminal. Same thing with
                        debuggers on a GUI: real programmers use gdb. I've gotten soft, though.

                        Cheers,
                        11011011
                      • Thomas Olausson
                        I found my own programmer productivity sky rocket after switching from emacs to Eclipse. Mostly due to the refactoring tools in Eclipse. Eclipse has a static
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jul 6, 2007
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                          I found my own programmer productivity sky rocket after switching
                          from emacs to Eclipse.
                          Mostly due to the refactoring tools in Eclipse.
                          Eclipse has a static image of your class tree, so it'll report to you
                          what will changes if you modify
                          a method. For larger projects, refactoring becomes possible.

                          The overview you get on your classes beats in the package explorer is
                          also super.
                          Source formatting is sane by default. CVS/SVN integration works well.
                          I used to think automatic compilation was bad, but why defer syntax
                          errors 'til a manual build?

                          Although being a 100+ Mb download, it's feature skinny, especially
                          outside of Java.
                          No XML editor by default and no keyboard macro recording.
                          Can't even make rectangular selections in source (like textmate or
                          Word).
                          Package management is strangely done too, many packages depend on
                          others, but don't advertise that fact, it's not centralized like
                          rubygems.

                          I've found the learning curve to be like Photoshop, you stumble over
                          features by accident.

                          /Thomas
                        • J. David Beutel
                          ... I agree. It can depend on the individual developer and the kind of development. However, that is not to say that it s as arbitrary as, e.g., a code
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jul 7, 2007
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                            Ben Munat <bent@...> wrote on 07/06/2007 10:28:58 AM:
                            > But ultimately, IDE preference is one of those deeply personal choices... there is no right or
                            > wrong. Eclipse, IDEA, and NetBeans all have their good points and bad points (heck, for that matter
                            > there are lots of people who are most productive in VI or Emacs).
                            >

                            I agree. It can depend on the individual developer and the kind of
                            development. However, that is not to say that it's as arbitrary as,
                            e.g., a code formatting standard. While the choice may make no
                            difference to the productivity of some developers, it will to others.
                            It's like the old vi versus emacs debate, or Unix versus Windows.
                            Hopefully you can use what's most productive for you and the job at hand.

                            Cheers,
                            11011011
                          • J. David Beutel
                            ... By the way, I suppose there s a lot of sites with articles and forums for Eclipse, but here s one in particular that I happen to know about. It s a
                            Message 13 of 13 , Jul 13, 2007
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                              piikoicoder wrote:
                              > Is there any chance that Eclipse would be of interest for a monthly
                              > meeting? I wish I could offer to teach it, but can't.
                              >
                              > And, while I realize the value of things like Ruby on Rails, I am most
                              > interested in development in "pure" Java.
                              >
                              > Thanks,
                              > George
                              >
                              > PS: Or does anyone know of any classes anywhere I could attend to
                              > better master Eclipse?
                              >

                              By the way, I suppose there's a lot of sites with articles and forums
                              for Eclipse, but here's one in particular that I happen to know about.
                              It's a spin-off from Javalobby. It's hard to avoid learning something
                              there, altho the header buttons don't work very well on Firefox.

                              http://www.eclipsezone.com/


                              Cheers,
                              11011011
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