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Re: Motor control circut needed

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  • -------------------
    Wire the light and dust collector to a single commercial duty switch. To the same switch add another outlet (for the saw) with a delay-on- make relay wired to
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 6, 2005
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      Wire the light and dust collector to a single commercial duty switch.
      To the same switch add another outlet (for the saw) with a delay-on-
      make relay wired to it. When you flip the switch the light and dust
      collector will come on and the saw outlet will be energized a few
      moments later. You can find a relay like this here:
      http://www.artisancontrols.com/products/2411sa.htm
      You may need a transformer to supply power to the relay but that
      shouldn't be a problem (check out doorbell transformers which are UL
      approved). The timer method is most likely the most reliable method
      to go with; current sensing is possible but more complex and
      overkill. You might wish to put a second light on the delayed circuit
      just to signal when it is powered up.

      When you wire 110vac always follow approved methods (I've seen some
      pretty bad wiring in a few buildings I've been in).

      Regards
      xxxtoytech
      --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "etcmn" <etcmn@y...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > I'm the sort of person who dabbles a bit in everything but I don't
      > know very much about electronics. I can handle a soldering iron
      and
      > when I have a scematic and a list of parts I can build circuts but
      I
      > don't understand enough to design them.
      >
      > Right now I need a control circut for the dust collector in my
      > woodshop. Basically what I want is to be able to throw one switch
      > and have a power saw, a work light, and the dust collector all come
      > on. The more complicated part is the problem with the large
      initial
      > current needed for an electic motor to start up. If I simply have
      a
      > switch that directly powers both the saw motor and the motor for
      the
      > dust collector the initial surge may overload the circut and blow a
      > fuse. I need a circut that will introduce a delay so that the saw
      > doesn't receive power until after the dust collector motor has
      > reached it's normal operating speed. I see two ways this could be
      > done:
      >
      > 1) A simple timer delay that when the switch is thrown power flows
      to
      > one outlet and then the circut waits say 10-15 seconds before
      > allowing power to flow to the second outlet.
      >
      > 2) A current sensor that can tell when the first motor has passed
      > it's surge point and settled down to its normal operating amperage
      > before allowing power to flow to the second motor.
      >
      > Method #2 would be highly prefered but I expect that will require a
      > somewhat more complicated circut. In either case the whole thing
      can
      > be a low voltage circut that just closes a couple of relays to
      allow
      > power to flow to the motors. Easy for me to get suitable relays
      from
      > furnaces that trip on 12v that can handle the current for the saw
      and
      > dust collector motors.
      >
      > Appreciate any help you can give me.
    • etcmn
      That is certainly the sort of device I am looking for, but I posted in this group hoping someone would have a schematic for me to build one for myself.
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 16, 2005
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        That is certainly the sort of device I am looking for, but I posted
        in this group hoping someone would have a schematic for me to build
        one for myself. Evening going to the web site in your message and
        clicking on "order" it still doesn't tell me how much they are
        charging for the thing. Since I would need one for each tool outlet
        that would be about 12-15 relay circut which from the look of that
        web site I'm guessing could get kind of pricy. I know I can buy
        suitable relays and other components from a local surplus store and
        could probably put it together for less than $5 each if I had a
        schematic.


        --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "-------------------"
        <xxxtoytech@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Wire the light and dust collector to a single commercial duty
        switch.
        > To the same switch add another outlet (for the saw) with a delay-on-
        > make relay wired to it. When you flip the switch the light and dust
        > collector will come on and the saw outlet will be energized a few
        > moments later. You can find a relay like this here:
        > http://www.artisancontrols.com/products/2411sa.htm
        > You may need a transformer to supply power to the relay but that
        > shouldn't be a problem (check out doorbell transformers which are
        UL
        > approved). The timer method is most likely the most reliable method
        > to go with; current sensing is possible but more complex and
        > overkill. You might wish to put a second light on the delayed
        circuit
        > just to signal when it is powered up.
        >
        > When you wire 110vac always follow approved methods (I've seen some
        > pretty bad wiring in a few buildings I've been in).
        >
        > Regards
        > xxxtoytech
        > --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "etcmn" <etcmn@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > I'm the sort of person who dabbles a bit in everything but I
        don't
        > > know very much about electronics. I can handle a soldering iron
        > and
        > > when I have a scematic and a list of parts I can build circuts
        but
        > I
        > > don't understand enough to design them.
        > >
        > > Right now I need a control circut for the dust collector in my
        > > woodshop. Basically what I want is to be able to throw one
        switch
        > > and have a power saw, a work light, and the dust collector all
        come
        > > on. The more complicated part is the problem with the large
        > initial
        > > current needed for an electic motor to start up. If I simply
        have
        > a
        > > switch that directly powers both the saw motor and the motor for
        > the
        > > dust collector the initial surge may overload the circut and blow
        a
        > > fuse. I need a circut that will introduce a delay so that the
        saw
        > > doesn't receive power until after the dust collector motor has
        > > reached it's normal operating speed. I see two ways this could
        be
        > > done:
        > >
        > > 1) A simple timer delay that when the switch is thrown power
        flows
        > to
        > > one outlet and then the circut waits say 10-15 seconds before
        > > allowing power to flow to the second outlet.
        > >
        > > 2) A current sensor that can tell when the first motor has passed
        > > it's surge point and settled down to its normal operating
        amperage
        > > before allowing power to flow to the second motor.
        > >
        > > Method #2 would be highly prefered but I expect that will require
        a
        > > somewhat more complicated circut. In either case the whole thing
        > can
        > > be a low voltage circut that just closes a couple of relays to
        > allow
        > > power to flow to the motors. Easy for me to get suitable relays
        > from
        > > furnaces that trip on 12v that can handle the current for the saw
        > and
        > > dust collector motors.
        > >
        > > Appreciate any help you can give me.
      • multiuseguy
        Perhaps you could use the 555 / 556 timer IC to do what you want. When the on signal is given it could start the timer to power a simple inexpensive relay.
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 23, 2005
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          Perhaps you could use the 555 / 556 timer IC to do what you want.
          When the 'on' signal is given it could start the timer to power a
          simple inexpensive relay. Wire the relay to latch and even use one
          set of the relays contacts to 'start' the next 555 timer. I know
          there are a lot of 555/556 circuits on the 'net' so maybe you could
          find one to suit your needs with little or no modification. I don't
          know much about this stuff but it's just a thought for you to
          consider.


          --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "etcmn" <etcmn@y...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > That is certainly the sort of device I am looking for, but I
          posted
          > in this group hoping someone would have a schematic for me to
          build
          > one for myself. Evening going to the web site in your message and
          > clicking on "order" it still doesn't tell me how much they are
          > charging for the thing. Since I would need one for each tool
          outlet
          > that would be about 12-15 relay circut which from the look of that
          > web site I'm guessing could get kind of pricy. I know I can buy
          > suitable relays and other components from a local surplus store
          and
          > could probably put it together for less than $5 each if I had a
          > schematic.
          >
          >
          > --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "-------------------"
          > <xxxtoytech@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Wire the light and dust collector to a single commercial duty
          > switch.
          > > To the same switch add another outlet (for the saw) with a delay-
          on-
          > > make relay wired to it. When you flip the switch the light and
          dust
          > > collector will come on and the saw outlet will be energized a
          few
          > > moments later. You can find a relay like this here:
          > > http://www.artisancontrols.com/products/2411sa.htm
          > > You may need a transformer to supply power to the relay but that
          > > shouldn't be a problem (check out doorbell transformers which
          are
          > UL
          > > approved). The timer method is most likely the most reliable
          method
          > > to go with; current sensing is possible but more complex and
          > > overkill. You might wish to put a second light on the delayed
          > circuit
          > > just to signal when it is powered up.
          > >
          > > When you wire 110vac always follow approved methods (I've seen
          some
          > > pretty bad wiring in a few buildings I've been in).
          > >
          > > Regards
          > > xxxtoytech
          > > --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "etcmn" <etcmn@y...>
          wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > I'm the sort of person who dabbles a bit in everything but I
          > don't
          > > > know very much about electronics. I can handle a soldering
          iron
          > > and
          > > > when I have a scematic and a list of parts I can build circuts
          > but
          > > I
          > > > don't understand enough to design them.
          > > >
          > > > Right now I need a control circut for the dust collector in my
          > > > woodshop. Basically what I want is to be able to throw one
          > switch
          > > > and have a power saw, a work light, and the dust collector all
          > come
          > > > on. The more complicated part is the problem with the large
          > > initial
          > > > current needed for an electic motor to start up. If I simply
          > have
          > > a
          > > > switch that directly powers both the saw motor and the motor
          for
          > > the
          > > > dust collector the initial surge may overload the circut and
          blow
          > a
          > > > fuse. I need a circut that will introduce a delay so that
          the
          > saw
          > > > doesn't receive power until after the dust collector motor has
          > > > reached it's normal operating speed. I see two ways this
          could
          > be
          > > > done:
          > > >
          > > > 1) A simple timer delay that when the switch is thrown power
          > flows
          > > to
          > > > one outlet and then the circut waits say 10-15 seconds before
          > > > allowing power to flow to the second outlet.
          > > >
          > > > 2) A current sensor that can tell when the first motor has
          passed
          > > > it's surge point and settled down to its normal operating
          > amperage
          > > > before allowing power to flow to the second motor.
          > > >
          > > > Method #2 would be highly prefered but I expect that will
          require
          > a
          > > > somewhat more complicated circut. In either case the whole
          thing
          > > can
          > > > be a low voltage circut that just closes a couple of relays to
          > > allow
          > > > power to flow to the motors. Easy for me to get suitable
          relays
          > > from
          > > > furnaces that trip on 12v that can handle the current for the
          saw
          > > and
          > > > dust collector motors.
          > > >
          > > > Appreciate any help you can give me.
        • -------------------
          The time delay relay has a 12 amp rating so you should only need one. The dust control and relay would connected to one switch (lets say 15 amp) The dust
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 6, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            The time delay relay has a 12 amp rating so you should only need one.
            The dust control and relay would connected to one switch (lets say 15
            amp) The dust collector comes on immediately, the relay controls one
            or more tool outlets. You only have to worry about the surges on ONE
            circuit (15 amps I'm assuming). The reason for using a commercially
            available unit is for safety reasons, wiring your own to work from
            110VAC power can be tricky and might cause insurance problems. As
            shown above you should only require ONE of these
            controls.http://www.artisancontrols.com/products/2411sa.htm
            Note: In my original post I mentioned that a 12volt transformer might
            be needed. I was wrong, all that needs to be done is to wire together
            the switch terminals. On application of power, the timing cycle
            starts and at the end of the timing cycle the relay switches on and
            stays on as long as power is applied.

            Regards
            xxxtoytech
            --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "etcmn" <etcmn@y...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > That is certainly the sort of device I am looking for, but I posted
            > in this group hoping someone would have a schematic for me to build
            > one for myself. Evening going to the web site in your message and
            > clicking on "order" it still doesn't tell me how much they are
            > charging for the thing. Since I would need one for each tool
            outlet
            > that would be about 12-15 relay circut which from the look of that
            > web site I'm guessing could get kind of pricy. I know I can buy
            > suitable relays and other components from a local surplus store and
            > could probably put it together for less than $5 each if I had a
            > schematic.
            >
            >
            > --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "-------------------"
            > <xxxtoytech@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Wire the light and dust collector to a single commercial duty
            > switch.
            > > To the same switch add another outlet (for the saw) with a delay-
            on-
            > > make relay wired to it. When you flip the switch the light and
            dust
            > > collector will come on and the saw outlet will be energized a few
            > > moments later. You can find a relay like this here:
            > > http://www.artisancontrols.com/products/2411sa.htm
            > > You may need a transformer to supply power to the relay but that
            > > shouldn't be a problem (check out doorbell transformers which are
            > UL
            > > approved). The timer method is most likely the most reliable
            method
            > > to go with; current sensing is possible but more complex and
            > > overkill. You might wish to put a second light on the delayed
            > circuit
            > > just to signal when it is powered up.
            > >
            > > When you wire 110vac always follow approved methods (I've seen
            some
            > > pretty bad wiring in a few buildings I've been in).
            > >
            > > Regards
            > > xxxtoytech
            > > --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "etcmn" <etcmn@y...>
            wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I'm the sort of person who dabbles a bit in everything but I
            > don't
            > > > know very much about electronics. I can handle a soldering
            iron
            > > and
            > > > when I have a scematic and a list of parts I can build circuts
            > but
            > > I
            > > > don't understand enough to design them.
            > > >
            > > > Right now I need a control circut for the dust collector in my
            > > > woodshop. Basically what I want is to be able to throw one
            > switch
            > > > and have a power saw, a work light, and the dust collector all
            > come
            > > > on. The more complicated part is the problem with the large
            > > initial
            > > > current needed for an electic motor to start up. If I simply
            > have
            > > a
            > > > switch that directly powers both the saw motor and the motor
            for
            > > the
            > > > dust collector the initial surge may overload the circut and
            blow
            > a
            > > > fuse. I need a circut that will introduce a delay so that the
            > saw
            > > > doesn't receive power until after the dust collector motor has
            > > > reached it's normal operating speed. I see two ways this could
            > be
            > > > done:
            > > >
            > > > 1) A simple timer delay that when the switch is thrown power
            > flows
            > > to
            > > > one outlet and then the circut waits say 10-15 seconds before
            > > > allowing power to flow to the second outlet.
            > > >
            > > > 2) A current sensor that can tell when the first motor has
            passed
            > > > it's surge point and settled down to its normal operating
            > amperage
            > > > before allowing power to flow to the second motor.
            > > >
            > > > Method #2 would be highly prefered but I expect that will
            require
            > a
            > > > somewhat more complicated circut. In either case the whole
            thing
            > > can
            > > > be a low voltage circut that just closes a couple of relays to
            > > allow
            > > > power to flow to the motors. Easy for me to get suitable
            relays
            > > from
            > > > furnaces that trip on 12v that can handle the current for the
            saw
            > > and
            > > > dust collector motors.
            > > >
            > > > Appreciate any help you can give me.
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