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Motor control circut needed

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  • etcmn
    I m the sort of person who dabbles a bit in everything but I don t know very much about electronics. I can handle a soldering iron and when I have a scematic
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 30, 2005
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      I'm the sort of person who dabbles a bit in everything but I don't
      know very much about electronics. I can handle a soldering iron and
      when I have a scematic and a list of parts I can build circuts but I
      don't understand enough to design them.

      Right now I need a control circut for the dust collector in my
      woodshop. Basically what I want is to be able to throw one switch
      and have a power saw, a work light, and the dust collector all come
      on. The more complicated part is the problem with the large initial
      current needed for an electic motor to start up. If I simply have a
      switch that directly powers both the saw motor and the motor for the
      dust collector the initial surge may overload the circut and blow a
      fuse. I need a circut that will introduce a delay so that the saw
      doesn't receive power until after the dust collector motor has
      reached it's normal operating speed. I see two ways this could be
      done:

      1) A simple timer delay that when the switch is thrown power flows to
      one outlet and then the circut waits say 10-15 seconds before
      allowing power to flow to the second outlet.

      2) A current sensor that can tell when the first motor has passed
      it's surge point and settled down to its normal operating amperage
      before allowing power to flow to the second motor.

      Method #2 would be highly prefered but I expect that will require a
      somewhat more complicated circut. In either case the whole thing can
      be a low voltage circut that just closes a couple of relays to allow
      power to flow to the motors. Easy for me to get suitable relays from
      furnaces that trip on 12v that can handle the current for the saw and
      dust collector motors.

      Appreciate any help you can give me.
    • -------------------
      Wire the light and dust collector to a single commercial duty switch. To the same switch add another outlet (for the saw) with a delay-on- make relay wired to
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 6, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Wire the light and dust collector to a single commercial duty switch.
        To the same switch add another outlet (for the saw) with a delay-on-
        make relay wired to it. When you flip the switch the light and dust
        collector will come on and the saw outlet will be energized a few
        moments later. You can find a relay like this here:
        http://www.artisancontrols.com/products/2411sa.htm
        You may need a transformer to supply power to the relay but that
        shouldn't be a problem (check out doorbell transformers which are UL
        approved). The timer method is most likely the most reliable method
        to go with; current sensing is possible but more complex and
        overkill. You might wish to put a second light on the delayed circuit
        just to signal when it is powered up.

        When you wire 110vac always follow approved methods (I've seen some
        pretty bad wiring in a few buildings I've been in).

        Regards
        xxxtoytech
        --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "etcmn" <etcmn@y...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > I'm the sort of person who dabbles a bit in everything but I don't
        > know very much about electronics. I can handle a soldering iron
        and
        > when I have a scematic and a list of parts I can build circuts but
        I
        > don't understand enough to design them.
        >
        > Right now I need a control circut for the dust collector in my
        > woodshop. Basically what I want is to be able to throw one switch
        > and have a power saw, a work light, and the dust collector all come
        > on. The more complicated part is the problem with the large
        initial
        > current needed for an electic motor to start up. If I simply have
        a
        > switch that directly powers both the saw motor and the motor for
        the
        > dust collector the initial surge may overload the circut and blow a
        > fuse. I need a circut that will introduce a delay so that the saw
        > doesn't receive power until after the dust collector motor has
        > reached it's normal operating speed. I see two ways this could be
        > done:
        >
        > 1) A simple timer delay that when the switch is thrown power flows
        to
        > one outlet and then the circut waits say 10-15 seconds before
        > allowing power to flow to the second outlet.
        >
        > 2) A current sensor that can tell when the first motor has passed
        > it's surge point and settled down to its normal operating amperage
        > before allowing power to flow to the second motor.
        >
        > Method #2 would be highly prefered but I expect that will require a
        > somewhat more complicated circut. In either case the whole thing
        can
        > be a low voltage circut that just closes a couple of relays to
        allow
        > power to flow to the motors. Easy for me to get suitable relays
        from
        > furnaces that trip on 12v that can handle the current for the saw
        and
        > dust collector motors.
        >
        > Appreciate any help you can give me.
      • etcmn
        That is certainly the sort of device I am looking for, but I posted in this group hoping someone would have a schematic for me to build one for myself.
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 16, 2005
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          That is certainly the sort of device I am looking for, but I posted
          in this group hoping someone would have a schematic for me to build
          one for myself. Evening going to the web site in your message and
          clicking on "order" it still doesn't tell me how much they are
          charging for the thing. Since I would need one for each tool outlet
          that would be about 12-15 relay circut which from the look of that
          web site I'm guessing could get kind of pricy. I know I can buy
          suitable relays and other components from a local surplus store and
          could probably put it together for less than $5 each if I had a
          schematic.


          --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "-------------------"
          <xxxtoytech@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Wire the light and dust collector to a single commercial duty
          switch.
          > To the same switch add another outlet (for the saw) with a delay-on-
          > make relay wired to it. When you flip the switch the light and dust
          > collector will come on and the saw outlet will be energized a few
          > moments later. You can find a relay like this here:
          > http://www.artisancontrols.com/products/2411sa.htm
          > You may need a transformer to supply power to the relay but that
          > shouldn't be a problem (check out doorbell transformers which are
          UL
          > approved). The timer method is most likely the most reliable method
          > to go with; current sensing is possible but more complex and
          > overkill. You might wish to put a second light on the delayed
          circuit
          > just to signal when it is powered up.
          >
          > When you wire 110vac always follow approved methods (I've seen some
          > pretty bad wiring in a few buildings I've been in).
          >
          > Regards
          > xxxtoytech
          > --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "etcmn" <etcmn@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > I'm the sort of person who dabbles a bit in everything but I
          don't
          > > know very much about electronics. I can handle a soldering iron
          > and
          > > when I have a scematic and a list of parts I can build circuts
          but
          > I
          > > don't understand enough to design them.
          > >
          > > Right now I need a control circut for the dust collector in my
          > > woodshop. Basically what I want is to be able to throw one
          switch
          > > and have a power saw, a work light, and the dust collector all
          come
          > > on. The more complicated part is the problem with the large
          > initial
          > > current needed for an electic motor to start up. If I simply
          have
          > a
          > > switch that directly powers both the saw motor and the motor for
          > the
          > > dust collector the initial surge may overload the circut and blow
          a
          > > fuse. I need a circut that will introduce a delay so that the
          saw
          > > doesn't receive power until after the dust collector motor has
          > > reached it's normal operating speed. I see two ways this could
          be
          > > done:
          > >
          > > 1) A simple timer delay that when the switch is thrown power
          flows
          > to
          > > one outlet and then the circut waits say 10-15 seconds before
          > > allowing power to flow to the second outlet.
          > >
          > > 2) A current sensor that can tell when the first motor has passed
          > > it's surge point and settled down to its normal operating
          amperage
          > > before allowing power to flow to the second motor.
          > >
          > > Method #2 would be highly prefered but I expect that will require
          a
          > > somewhat more complicated circut. In either case the whole thing
          > can
          > > be a low voltage circut that just closes a couple of relays to
          > allow
          > > power to flow to the motors. Easy for me to get suitable relays
          > from
          > > furnaces that trip on 12v that can handle the current for the saw
          > and
          > > dust collector motors.
          > >
          > > Appreciate any help you can give me.
        • multiuseguy
          Perhaps you could use the 555 / 556 timer IC to do what you want. When the on signal is given it could start the timer to power a simple inexpensive relay.
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 23, 2005
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            Perhaps you could use the 555 / 556 timer IC to do what you want.
            When the 'on' signal is given it could start the timer to power a
            simple inexpensive relay. Wire the relay to latch and even use one
            set of the relays contacts to 'start' the next 555 timer. I know
            there are a lot of 555/556 circuits on the 'net' so maybe you could
            find one to suit your needs with little or no modification. I don't
            know much about this stuff but it's just a thought for you to
            consider.


            --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "etcmn" <etcmn@y...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > That is certainly the sort of device I am looking for, but I
            posted
            > in this group hoping someone would have a schematic for me to
            build
            > one for myself. Evening going to the web site in your message and
            > clicking on "order" it still doesn't tell me how much they are
            > charging for the thing. Since I would need one for each tool
            outlet
            > that would be about 12-15 relay circut which from the look of that
            > web site I'm guessing could get kind of pricy. I know I can buy
            > suitable relays and other components from a local surplus store
            and
            > could probably put it together for less than $5 each if I had a
            > schematic.
            >
            >
            > --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "-------------------"
            > <xxxtoytech@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Wire the light and dust collector to a single commercial duty
            > switch.
            > > To the same switch add another outlet (for the saw) with a delay-
            on-
            > > make relay wired to it. When you flip the switch the light and
            dust
            > > collector will come on and the saw outlet will be energized a
            few
            > > moments later. You can find a relay like this here:
            > > http://www.artisancontrols.com/products/2411sa.htm
            > > You may need a transformer to supply power to the relay but that
            > > shouldn't be a problem (check out doorbell transformers which
            are
            > UL
            > > approved). The timer method is most likely the most reliable
            method
            > > to go with; current sensing is possible but more complex and
            > > overkill. You might wish to put a second light on the delayed
            > circuit
            > > just to signal when it is powered up.
            > >
            > > When you wire 110vac always follow approved methods (I've seen
            some
            > > pretty bad wiring in a few buildings I've been in).
            > >
            > > Regards
            > > xxxtoytech
            > > --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "etcmn" <etcmn@y...>
            wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I'm the sort of person who dabbles a bit in everything but I
            > don't
            > > > know very much about electronics. I can handle a soldering
            iron
            > > and
            > > > when I have a scematic and a list of parts I can build circuts
            > but
            > > I
            > > > don't understand enough to design them.
            > > >
            > > > Right now I need a control circut for the dust collector in my
            > > > woodshop. Basically what I want is to be able to throw one
            > switch
            > > > and have a power saw, a work light, and the dust collector all
            > come
            > > > on. The more complicated part is the problem with the large
            > > initial
            > > > current needed for an electic motor to start up. If I simply
            > have
            > > a
            > > > switch that directly powers both the saw motor and the motor
            for
            > > the
            > > > dust collector the initial surge may overload the circut and
            blow
            > a
            > > > fuse. I need a circut that will introduce a delay so that
            the
            > saw
            > > > doesn't receive power until after the dust collector motor has
            > > > reached it's normal operating speed. I see two ways this
            could
            > be
            > > > done:
            > > >
            > > > 1) A simple timer delay that when the switch is thrown power
            > flows
            > > to
            > > > one outlet and then the circut waits say 10-15 seconds before
            > > > allowing power to flow to the second outlet.
            > > >
            > > > 2) A current sensor that can tell when the first motor has
            passed
            > > > it's surge point and settled down to its normal operating
            > amperage
            > > > before allowing power to flow to the second motor.
            > > >
            > > > Method #2 would be highly prefered but I expect that will
            require
            > a
            > > > somewhat more complicated circut. In either case the whole
            thing
            > > can
            > > > be a low voltage circut that just closes a couple of relays to
            > > allow
            > > > power to flow to the motors. Easy for me to get suitable
            relays
            > > from
            > > > furnaces that trip on 12v that can handle the current for the
            saw
            > > and
            > > > dust collector motors.
            > > >
            > > > Appreciate any help you can give me.
          • -------------------
            The time delay relay has a 12 amp rating so you should only need one. The dust control and relay would connected to one switch (lets say 15 amp) The dust
            Message 5 of 5 , Mar 6 8:29 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              The time delay relay has a 12 amp rating so you should only need one.
              The dust control and relay would connected to one switch (lets say 15
              amp) The dust collector comes on immediately, the relay controls one
              or more tool outlets. You only have to worry about the surges on ONE
              circuit (15 amps I'm assuming). The reason for using a commercially
              available unit is for safety reasons, wiring your own to work from
              110VAC power can be tricky and might cause insurance problems. As
              shown above you should only require ONE of these
              controls.http://www.artisancontrols.com/products/2411sa.htm
              Note: In my original post I mentioned that a 12volt transformer might
              be needed. I was wrong, all that needs to be done is to wire together
              the switch terminals. On application of power, the timing cycle
              starts and at the end of the timing cycle the relay switches on and
              stays on as long as power is applied.

              Regards
              xxxtoytech
              --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "etcmn" <etcmn@y...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > That is certainly the sort of device I am looking for, but I posted
              > in this group hoping someone would have a schematic for me to build
              > one for myself. Evening going to the web site in your message and
              > clicking on "order" it still doesn't tell me how much they are
              > charging for the thing. Since I would need one for each tool
              outlet
              > that would be about 12-15 relay circut which from the look of that
              > web site I'm guessing could get kind of pricy. I know I can buy
              > suitable relays and other components from a local surplus store and
              > could probably put it together for less than $5 each if I had a
              > schematic.
              >
              >
              > --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "-------------------"
              > <xxxtoytech@y...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Wire the light and dust collector to a single commercial duty
              > switch.
              > > To the same switch add another outlet (for the saw) with a delay-
              on-
              > > make relay wired to it. When you flip the switch the light and
              dust
              > > collector will come on and the saw outlet will be energized a few
              > > moments later. You can find a relay like this here:
              > > http://www.artisancontrols.com/products/2411sa.htm
              > > You may need a transformer to supply power to the relay but that
              > > shouldn't be a problem (check out doorbell transformers which are
              > UL
              > > approved). The timer method is most likely the most reliable
              method
              > > to go with; current sensing is possible but more complex and
              > > overkill. You might wish to put a second light on the delayed
              > circuit
              > > just to signal when it is powered up.
              > >
              > > When you wire 110vac always follow approved methods (I've seen
              some
              > > pretty bad wiring in a few buildings I've been in).
              > >
              > > Regards
              > > xxxtoytech
              > > --- In home_electronics@yahoogroups.com, "etcmn" <etcmn@y...>
              wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > I'm the sort of person who dabbles a bit in everything but I
              > don't
              > > > know very much about electronics. I can handle a soldering
              iron
              > > and
              > > > when I have a scematic and a list of parts I can build circuts
              > but
              > > I
              > > > don't understand enough to design them.
              > > >
              > > > Right now I need a control circut for the dust collector in my
              > > > woodshop. Basically what I want is to be able to throw one
              > switch
              > > > and have a power saw, a work light, and the dust collector all
              > come
              > > > on. The more complicated part is the problem with the large
              > > initial
              > > > current needed for an electic motor to start up. If I simply
              > have
              > > a
              > > > switch that directly powers both the saw motor and the motor
              for
              > > the
              > > > dust collector the initial surge may overload the circut and
              blow
              > a
              > > > fuse. I need a circut that will introduce a delay so that the
              > saw
              > > > doesn't receive power until after the dust collector motor has
              > > > reached it's normal operating speed. I see two ways this could
              > be
              > > > done:
              > > >
              > > > 1) A simple timer delay that when the switch is thrown power
              > flows
              > > to
              > > > one outlet and then the circut waits say 10-15 seconds before
              > > > allowing power to flow to the second outlet.
              > > >
              > > > 2) A current sensor that can tell when the first motor has
              passed
              > > > it's surge point and settled down to its normal operating
              > amperage
              > > > before allowing power to flow to the second motor.
              > > >
              > > > Method #2 would be highly prefered but I expect that will
              require
              > a
              > > > somewhat more complicated circut. In either case the whole
              thing
              > > can
              > > > be a low voltage circut that just closes a couple of relays to
              > > allow
              > > > power to flow to the motors. Easy for me to get suitable
              relays
              > > from
              > > > furnaces that trip on 12v that can handle the current for the
              saw
              > > and
              > > > dust collector motors.
              > > >
              > > > Appreciate any help you can give me.
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