Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Shutter Power Problem

Expand Messages
  • Bill Gardner
    I have sent an email to Jerry about this, but wonder if I might get some suggestions over the weekend from the group. The situation is as follows. I have
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 17, 2007
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      I have sent an email to Jerry about this, but wonder if I might get
      some suggestions over the weekend from the group.

      The situation is as follows. I have always had issues with my shutter
      motor working properly. I installed DDW last spring, ran into shutter
      motor issues. Installed the new shutter motor and things were good
      for a while. Then I had problems. I cleaned the contact plates, the
      copper loops, the wired connection to the contact plates and even
      replaced one of the contact plates (looked burned). This then worked
      for a while. The voltage that was getting delivered as measured at
      the contact plates was slightly lower than Jerry was suggesting I
      should have. I therefore ordered the PS2 power supply and installed
      it this morning.

      Upon trying to open the shutter, I did not get anything. So I removed
      the shutter relay box from the equation (Jerry had previously
      suggested this step for testing) and when I tried opening the shutter,
      I was greeted with sparks at one of the terminals for the (red)
      contact plates.

      I am not electrically minded and have followed all of the instructions
      in the DDW manual. I don't understand what could be causing this.
      The shutter rotation works perfectly with DDW. The only cable between
      the power supply and DDW is the power feeding DDW so there should not
      be a short (as mentioned in DDW's installation instructions).

      Any ideas?

      Bill
      _____________

      Pictor Observatory
      http://www.pictorobservatory.ca
    • Tim Long
      Sparks suggests that you don t have a clean electrical contact between the wire and the plate. Can I just clear up one common misunderstanding - the loops are
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 17, 2007
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Sparks suggests that you don't have a clean electrical contact between
        the wire and the plate.

        Can I just clear up one common misunderstanding - the loops are not
        copper; they are phosphor bronze. A lot of people make the mistake or
        replacing the loops with nice, clean copper ones, which corrodes within
        a few days and leaves them worse off. I have even seen someone replace
        the stainless steel plates with copper ones, with similar negative
        impact.

        I periodically (perhaps once a month) spray my plates and loops with a
        PTFE-based lubricant called 'GT-85' which is easily obtainable here in
        UK - that keeps my shutter working nicely. It has worked well for me for
        2 years now. I've found that sometimes the shutter fails to work when
        the temperature is below freezing, but I don't think that is an
        electrical contact problem.

        If you really want a bomb-proof solution to this, you might consider
        getting some of these after-market replacements for your sliding
        contacts:
        http://www.ironwoodobservatory.com/Images_ContactBlocks.htm

        --Tim Long


        -----Original Message-----
        From: home_dome_users@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:home_dome_users@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Gardner
        Sent: 17 February 2007 17:18
        To: home_dome_users@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [home_dome_users] Shutter Power Problem

        I have sent an email to Jerry about this, but wonder if I might get
        some suggestions over the weekend from the group.

        The situation is as follows. I have always had issues with my shutter
        motor working properly. I installed DDW last spring, ran into shutter
        motor issues. Installed the new shutter motor and things were good
        for a while. Then I had problems. I cleaned the contact plates, the
        copper loops, the wired connection to the contact plates and even
        replaced one of the contact plates (looked burned). This then worked
        for a while. The voltage that was getting delivered as measured at
        the contact plates was slightly lower than Jerry was suggesting I
        should have. I therefore ordered the PS2 power supply and installed
        it this morning.

        Upon trying to open the shutter, I did not get anything. So I removed
        the shutter relay box from the equation (Jerry had previously
        suggested this step for testing) and when I tried opening the shutter,
        I was greeted with sparks at one of the terminals for the (red)
        contact plates.

        I am not electrically minded and have followed all of the instructions
        in the DDW manual. I don't understand what could be causing this.
        The shutter rotation works perfectly with DDW. The only cable between
        the power supply and DDW is the power feeding DDW so there should not
        be a short (as mentioned in DDW's installation instructions).

        Any ideas?

        Bill
        _____________

        Pictor Observatory
        http://www.pictorobservatory.ca



        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Marty
        Tim, Wow. Talk about a brick sh*thouse. Million dollar set of contacts there. Very nice. Hate to see what they cost. Cheers, Marty ... From: Tim Long To:
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 17, 2007
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Tim,
           
          Wow.  Talk about a brick sh*thouse.  Million dollar set of contacts there.  Very nice.  Hate to see what they cost.
           
          Cheers, Marty
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Tim Long
          Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 12:28 PM
          Subject: RE: [home_dome_users] Shutter Power Problem

          Sparks suggests that you don't have a clean electrical contact between
          the wire and the plate.

          Can I just clear up one common misunderstanding - the loops are not
          copper; they are phosphor bronze. A lot of people make the mistake or
          replacing the loops with nice, clean copper ones, which corrodes within
          a few days and leaves them worse off. I have even seen someone replace
          the stainless steel plates with copper ones, with similar negative
          impact.

          I periodically (perhaps once a month) spray my plates and loops with a
          PTFE-based lubricant called 'GT-85' which is easily obtainable here in
          UK - that keeps my shutter working nicely. It has worked well for me for
          2 years now. I've found that sometimes the shutter fails to work when
          the temperature is below freezing, but I don't think that is an
          electrical contact problem.

          If you really want a bomb-proof solution to this, you might consider
          getting some of these after-market replacements for your sliding
          contacts:
          http://www.ironwood observatory. com/Images_ ContactBlocks. htm

          --Tim Long

          -----Original Message-----
          From: home_dome_users@ yahoogroups. com
          [mailto:home_dome_users@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Bill Gardner
          Sent: 17 February 2007 17:18
          To: home_dome_users@ yahoogroups. com
          Subject: [home_dome_users] Shutter Power Problem

          I have sent an email to Jerry about this, but wonder if I might get
          some suggestions over the weekend from the group.

          The situation is as follows. I have always had issues with my shutter
          motor working properly. I installed DDW last spring, ran into shutter
          motor issues. Installed the new shutter motor and things were good
          for a while. Then I had problems. I cleaned the contact plates, the
          copper loops, the wired connection to the contact plates and even
          replaced one of the contact plates (looked burned). This then worked
          for a while. The voltage that was getting delivered as measured at
          the contact plates was slightly lower than Jerry was suggesting I
          should have. I therefore ordered the PS2 power supply and installed
          it this morning.

          Upon trying to open the shutter, I did not get anything. So I removed
          the shutter relay box from the equation (Jerry had previously
          suggested this step for testing) and when I tried opening the shutter,
          I was greeted with sparks at one of the terminals for the (red)
          contact plates.

          I am not electrically minded and have followed all of the instructions
          in the DDW manual. I don't understand what could be causing this.
          The shutter rotation works perfectly with DDW. The only cable between
          the power supply and DDW is the power feeding DDW so there should not
          be a short (as mentioned in DDW's installation instructions) .

          Any ideas?

          Bill
          ____________ _

          Pictor Observatory
          http://www.pictorob servatory. ca

          Yahoo! Groups Links

        • Tim Long
          I m not sure what they cost, but quality is worth paying for, in my books. --T. From: home_dome_users@yahoogroups.com [mailto:home_dome_users@yahoogroups.com]
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 17, 2007
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment

            I’m not sure what they cost, but quality is worth paying for, in my books.

            --T.

             

            From: home_dome_users@yahoogroups.com [mailto:home_dome_users@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marty
            Sent: 17 February 2007 18:11
            To: home_dome_users@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [home_dome_users] Shutter Power Problem

             

            Tim,

             

            Wow.  Talk about a brick sh*thouse.  Million dollar set of contacts there.  Very nice.  Hate to see what they cost.

             

            Cheers, Marty

             

            ----- Original Message -----

            From: Tim Long

            Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 12:28 PM

            Subject: RE: [home_dome_users] Shutter Power Problem

             

            Sparks suggests that you don't have a clean electrical contact between
            the wire and the plate.

            Can I just clear up one common misunderstanding - the loops are not
            copper; they are phosphor bronze. A lot of people make the mistake or
            replacing the loops with nice, clean copper ones, which corrodes within
            a few days and leaves them worse off. I have even seen someone replace
            the stainless steel plates with copper ones, with similar negative
            impact.

            I periodically (perhaps once a month) spray my plates and loops with a
            PTFE-based lubricant called 'GT-85' which is easily obtainable here in
            UK - that keeps my shutter working nicely. It has worked well for me for
            2 years now. I've found that sometimes the shutter fails to work when
            the temperature is below freezing, but I don't think that is an
            electrical contact problem.

            If you really want a bomb-proof solution to this, you might consider
            getting some of these after-market replacements for your sliding
            contacts:
            http://www.ironwoodobservatory.com/Images_ContactBlocks.htm

            --Tim Long

            -----Original Message-----
            From: home_dome_users@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:home_dome_users@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Gardner
            Sent: 17 February 2007 17:18
            To: home_dome_users@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [home_dome_users] Shutter Power Problem

            I have sent an email to Jerry about this, but wonder if I might get
            some suggestions over the weekend from the group.

            The situation is as follows. I have always had issues with my shutter
            motor working properly. I installed DDW last spring, ran into shutter
            motor issues. Installed the new shutter motor and things were good
            for a while. Then I had problems. I cleaned the contact plates, the
            copper loops, the wired connection to the contact plates and even
            replaced one of the contact plates (looked burned). This then worked
            for a while. The voltage that was getting delivered as measured at
            the contact plates was slightly lower than Jerry was suggesting I
            should have. I therefore ordered the PS2 power supply and installed
            it this morning.

            Upon trying to open the shutter, I did not get anything. So I removed
            the shutter relay box from the equation (Jerry had previously
            suggested this step for testing) and when I tried opening the shutter,
            I was greeted with sparks at one of the terminals for the (red)
            contact plates.

            I am not electrically minded and have followed all of the instructions
            in the DDW manual. I don't understand what could be causing this.
            The shutter rotation works perfectly with DDW. The only cable between
            the power supply and DDW is the power feeding DDW so there should not
            be a short (as mentioned in DDW's installation instructions).

            Any ideas?

            Bill
            _____________

            Pictor Observatory
            http://www.pictorobservatory.ca

            Yahoo! Groups Links

          • Marty
            True. If it fits your budget. Mine allows for baling wire, aluminum foil and chewing gum. ... From: Tim Long To: home_dome_users@yahoogroups.com Sent:
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 17, 2007
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              True.  If it fits your budget. 
               
              Mine allows for baling wire, aluminum foil  and chewing gum.<grin>
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Tim Long
              Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 1:11 PM
              Subject: RE: [home_dome_users] Shutter Power Problem

              I’m not sure what they cost, but quality is worth paying for, in my books.

              --T.

              From: home_dome_users@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:home_ dome_users@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Marty
              Sent: 17 February 2007 18:11
              To: home_dome_users@ yahoogroups. com
              Subject: Re: [home_dome_users] Shutter Power Problem

              Tim,

              Wow.  Talk about a brick sh*thouse.  Million dollar set of contacts there.  Very nice.  Hate to see what they cost.

              Cheers, Marty

              ----- Original Message -----

              From: Tim Long

              Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 12:28 PM

              Subject: RE: [home_dome_users] Shutter Power Problem

              Sparks suggests that you don't have a clean electrical contact between
              the wire and the plate.

              Can I just clear up one common misunderstanding - the loops are not
              copper; they are phosphor bronze. A lot of people make the mistake or
              replacing the loops with nice, clean copper ones, which corrodes within
              a few days and leaves them worse off. I have even seen someone replace
              the stainless steel plates with copper ones, with similar negative
              impact.

              I periodically (perhaps once a month) spray my plates and loops with a
              PTFE-based lubricant called 'GT-85' which is easily obtainable here in
              UK - that keeps my shutter working nicely. It has worked well for me for
              2 years now. I've found that sometimes the shutter fails to work when
              the temperature is below freezing, but I don't think that is an
              electrical contact problem.

              If you really want a bomb-proof solution to this, you might consider
              getting some of these after-market replacements for your sliding
              contacts:
              http://www.ironwood observatory. com/Images_ ContactBlocks. htm

              --Tim Long

              -----Original Message-----
              From: home_dome_users@ yahoogroups. com
              [mailto:home_dome_users@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Bill Gardner
              Sent: 17 February 2007 17:18
              To: home_dome_users@ yahoogroups. com
              Subject: [home_dome_users] Shutter Power Problem

              I have sent an email to Jerry about this, but wonder if I might get
              some suggestions over the weekend from the group.

              The situation is as follows. I have always had issues with my shutter
              motor working properly. I installed DDW last spring, ran into shutter
              motor issues. Installed the new shutter motor and things were good
              for a while. Then I had problems. I cleaned the contact plates, the
              copper loops, the wired connection to the contact plates and even
              replaced one of the contact plates (looked burned). This then worked
              for a while. The voltage that was getting delivered as measured at
              the contact plates was slightly lower than Jerry was suggesting I
              should have. I therefore ordered the PS2 power supply and installed
              it this morning.

              Upon trying to open the shutter, I did not get anything. So I removed
              the shutter relay box from the equation (Jerry had previously
              suggested this step for testing) and when I tried opening the shutter,
              I was greeted with sparks at one of the terminals for the (red)
              contact plates.

              I am not electrically minded and have followed all of the instructions
              in the DDW manual. I don't understand what could be causing this.
              The shutter rotation works perfectly with DDW. The only cable between
              the power supply and DDW is the power feeding DDW so there should not
              be a short (as mentioned in DDW's installation instructions) .

              Any ideas?

              Bill
              ____________ _

              Pictor Observatory
              http://www.pictorob servatory. ca

              Yahoo! Groups Links

            • OEAssociates
              Hi Bill, To start with, as you suggest, you shouldn t see sparks! Are you sure that the connections between the shutter motor and the sliding contacts are
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 17, 2007
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Bill,

                To start with, as you suggest, you shouldn't see sparks! 

                Are you sure that the connections between the shutter motor and the sliding contacts are correct? Like checking for gas in the tank, this one's obvious, but worth checking again. You should have a direct connection from one contact to one side of the motor and a second direct connection from the other contact to the other side of the motor. (you might even install temporary jumpers across the sliding contacts to make sure they are not the problem.

                If the shutter works with that lashup, the motor and power supply are good. If it doesn't work, try replacing the "old" known "good" power supply and try again. If still no joy, the motor is bad.

                Assuming the power supply and motor prove good,  remove the jumpers from the sliding contacts (if you put them in place) and try again. If the problem of sparking occurs, you have a contact problem like Tim describes. His solutions to that problem sound right.

                If the motor, power supply and sliding contacts test "good", then the problems you experience are either in the limit relay box or DDW. We have had troubles with the limit relay and have replaced it twice over a period of several years. I suspect the odds of limit relay problems far exceed those of DDW, so I would go there next:

                Reconnect the limit relay circuit ( and be double-dog sure that the door safety switch is either working properly or is defeated with a jumper across the appropriate terminals in the limit relay box. (My memory [which isn't too reliable, anymore] has the door switch contact being the pair on the right end of the terminal block when the box is oriented with the terminal block at the top.) If this contact is poorly made, the shutter motor will operate unreliably (if at all).

                Holding a permanent magnet near the appropriate reed limit switch will simulate the shutter reaching the limit of travel in that direction and is a good test of the operation of limiting feature. We have experienced a failure mode that caused the electromechanical relay on the limit circuit board to refuse to "drop out" until all power was removed - this defeated the function of the limit reed switches and caused the shutter to "overrun". Of course, when we either hit the "all stop" switch on the DDW control box (or let up on the hand control), the relay "dropped out" and then the system appeared to working properly - until the next time we tried to cycle the shutter. Replacing the relay box fixed the problem.

                Hope this helps - good hunting!

                Cheers!

                Roger Ady



                Bill Gardner wrote:

                I have sent an email to Jerry about this, but wonder if I might get
                some suggestions over the weekend from the group.

                The situation is as follows. I have always had issues with my shutter
                motor working properly. I installed DDW last spring, ran into shutter
                motor issues. Installed the new shutter motor and things were good
                for a while. Then I had problems. I cleaned the contact plates, the
                copper loops, the wired connection to the contact plates and even
                replaced one of the contact plates (looked burned). This then worked
                for a while. The voltage that was getting delivered as measured at
                the contact plates was slightly lower than Jerry was suggesting I
                should have. I therefore ordered the PS2 power supply and installed
                it this morning.

                Upon trying to open the shutter, I did not get anything. So I removed
                the shutter relay box from the equation (Jerry had previously
                suggested this step for testing) and when I tried opening the shutter,
                I was greeted with sparks at one of the terminals for the (red)
                contact plates.

                I am not electrically minded and have followed all of the instructions
                in the DDW manual. I don't understand what could be causing this.
                The shutter rotation works perfectly with DDW. The only cable between
                the power supply and DDW is the power feeding DDW so there should not
                be a short (as mentioned in DDW's installation instructions) .

                Any ideas?

                Bill
                ____________ _

                Pictor Observatory
                http://www.pictorob servatory. ca


              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.