Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [holistichelping] Samwel, Henry, Lucas chat about bird flu and community currencies

Expand Messages
  • samuel kongere
    Dear Lukas, I know we talked about the bird flu in Our country and our government cannot come clear on this. Last two days there occured birds death in Nairobi
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 27, 2006
      Dear Lukas,

      I know we talked about the bird flu in Our country and our government cannot come clear on this.

      Last two days there occured birds death in Nairobi west and langata areas giving threatening signs of the bird flu already here. It was alarming to get 0ver 100 chicks and birds die on top of the trees and authoritiesstill say it is because of the prolonged draught. There must be preparedness in these countries.

      After two days the livestock department came out when the residents in those areas had even touched the dead chicks withy bare handsand nobody could not even say where the chicks came from before being damped there. We need some cautions preparedness if there is some threatening menance to our population.

      Go on and let's have insights as you might such ideas from where you are.


      Lucas Gonzalez Santa Cruz <lucas.gonzalez@...> wrote:
      Hi, all!

      Below I share our chat about bird flu (now in 3 continents: Asia,
      Europe, Africa) and community currencies as a possible tool to help
      local activity (prevention, information, preparedness).

      I welcome our thoughts and help.

      Specifically we'd like to think about how we might use community
      currencies, both within our current networks and also outreaching to
      other networks and people, so that the best possible behaviours spread
      like wildfire across the countries where there's bird flu.

      Those countries is where a human pandemic (affecting us all) would most
      likely start.  The people in those countries would likely suffer most
      from a pandemic; the impact in countries where there's already many
      people living with HIV/AIDS might be hard.

      There are "pandemic plans" for Europe and North America, but not much in
      the rest of the world. 
      http://www.fluwikie.com/index.php?n=Geographic.Geographic  Maybe there's
      need for "grassroots plans" (or templates created cooperatively)?

      Thank you!


      IM chat:
      On Feb 22nd 2006, Samwel Kongere and Henry Migingo were together in a
      cybercafe in Nairobi, while Lucas Gonzalez Santa Cruz was at home in the
      Canary Islands (Spain).  Andrius Kulikauskas was on IM too (in
      Lithuania) but he had to leave soon so he didn't join the group chat.

      * Andrius' wishes (that we explore Samwel's Research Fellowship to work
      with Lucas on bird flu, see details below; and that we explore community
      currencies) were copied to the conversation.
      * Lucas shared his interest in helping create action (local prevention,
      telling the world about local situations, and local preparedness)
      regarding the present avian flu problem and a possible/likely future
      pandemic.  He shared his understanding about the "easy-to-write,
      difficult-to-implement" preventive activities.  He brought in the
      suggestion that maybe community currencies (CC) might help have
      preventive and preparedness activity.
      * Henry and Samwel agreed that in Kenya there's talk that they are
      "safe" but they are not.  Henry said he knows someone locally who knows
      about CC, and there's local experience.
      * The three agreed we need to ask for help at the cyfranogi yahoogroup. 
      Maybe working through the existing AIDS networks (who might be specially
      badly hit by a flu pandemic).
      * There was chat about the use of Linux and cooperation between Kenya
      and the Canary Islands through Linux User Groups.  The Canary Islands
      LUG is in the slow process of collecting and "software-freeing" of
      not-so-new computers and the problem is sending them abroad in the
      cheapest and safest possible way.

      Long version for those who may want it:
      lucas: yes :: here we are :: how do we invite the others?
      henry: Let me invite Sam then
      lucas: ho do you do that?
      samwel ha entrado en la sala.
      henry: I've invited him
      lucas: i think i've invited andrius
      henry: Just by clicking the "Conference" button
      lucas: *think*
      henry: :D
      samwel: good well
      henry: Andrius may not join coz he is using "Kopete" :: An open source
      program that does not allow conferencing
      henry: I see
      lucas:  ok, so it's the three of us
      samwel: ok :: wonderful to meet
      lucas: same here! :)
      samwel: what of the bird flu
      lucas: can i please just copy what andrius has written to me in another
      window, so that we keep it here?
      samwel: well
      lucas: here i go!
      >andrius: I will need to go soon :: can you continue with them?
      >lucas: ah ok :: sure!
      >andrius: And please save your chat! Yes.
      >lucas: sure!
      >andrius: One of my wishes is that Samwel, as our Research Fellow, work
      for you on Bird Flu :: in exchange for time-awards that you'll get for
      your help with our Online Learning Environment? :: Does that make sense?
      :: Also, please think of community currencies with regard to bird flu.
      Or what might be most useful? Also, please note that Samwel is
      interested in the feed business. :: Perhaps he might know about bird
      feed or explore that :: and that would be a channel for communicating wi
      [something else got lost]
      >lucas: sure, just copied it into the conference
      lucas: ok then :: samwel, you lead the meeting?
      henry: Sam go ahead
      samwel: yes it was a very good time for me :: what do you say about the
      bird feeds :: How can this help our community
      lucas: i'm personally worried about bird flu - i know nothing about bird
      henry: Lucas, maybe you can give Samuel some direction on what you want
      to hear from him
      lucas: ok
      samwel: yes :: is it about poultry?
      lucas: i'm worried about bird flu, and also willing to work with minciu
      sodas and with you in kenya
      samwel: ok
      lucas: there's this new virus (h5n1) that's in wild birds, poultry, and
      humans :: it's feared it might spark the next pandemic
      samwel: formated and channelled system of work is good
      henry: h5n1
      samwel: we hear this very much in our media
      lucas: and at present it's an immediate problem for poultry and
      countries where the virus is found in poultry or in wild birds :: ok
      samwel: but our authority doesn't agree to this
      henry: Doesnt agree to what?
      lucas: so i've been wondering - how can we help each other as humans to
      stop or at least delay a pandemic?
      lucas: that it's a problem?
      lucas: sure - authorities are having a hard time accepting it's a problem
      henry: They try to give us the illusion that Kenya is safe - whcih I
      think is very wrong
      lucas: so i'm exploring the possibility that our networks will find
      better ways to deal with this - and do other things too
      lucas: henry: same in many places!
      samwel: usually during the months ending the year our poultry back home
      die and it is something new to our rural people
      henry: What are your suggestions, Lucas?
      samwel: we can do something to stop pademic :: what are your suggestions
      lucas: i think the basic theoretical recomendation is clear: don't touch
      dead birds, bury them safely, and tell the world if you have a problem
      so the world may help :: not so easy to do in practice, because people
      depend on poultry as food for themselves and for markets :: and
      countries too! :: so one idea would be to reward those who do well -
      here's where andrius thinks some community currency might "do the trick"
      samwel: how will we know they die from the new virus?
      lucas: if a number of birds are taken to the apropriate labs, they will
      know :: also, if a group of poultry die in huge numbers (more than 80%)
      and show fever etc - then it's likely the new virus
      samwel: so we open the labs locally for bird treatment?
      lucas: we might find out the details
      henry: Lets discuss the idea of Community Cureency
      lucas: no - local labs won't be able to see the new virus - not likely -
      not easy technology!
      samwel: ok
      lucas: ok, i'd also like to know what the two of you have talked about -
      now or later, as you wish
      samwel: what of the community curency
      lucas: excuse me 2 minutes while i do something at home - please go on
      samwel: we will but henry will give the reporting of our talk
      henry: What the two of us have talked about will be sent to you via
      email tomorrow :: First thing in the morning, Sir
      samwel: get an email from him tomm
      lucas: i'm back :: ok then - community currency
      samwel: ok
      lucas: i'm not an expert at all in CC :: but i think i know what needs
      to get done - what i said above
      samwel: in copying what
      lucas: CC = community currencies
      henry: I found a very good mzee who understand CC but I lost touch with
      him :: He is a teacher at Strathmore School and he made great sense in
      his talks
      lucas: we can have all the help we want in minciu sodas and allies -
      cyfranogi :: ok, good to have a local knowledgeable person!
      samwel: community currency and how people use their wealth
      henry: Yes
      lucas: yes
      henry: I can get his email address and restart communication
      lucas: what i'd like to see is pandemic preparedness and pandemic
      prevention - in Africa
      samwel: this will be good
      henry: Strathmore School uses CC in paying school fees and workers
      lucas: (i know things are moving slowly in Europe and USA)
      henry: It is even slower in Africa
      samwel: so that is what we classefy as helping others through community
      lucas: yes, and there's the aids issue too - people living with aids may
      do worse regarding pandemic flu (whenever it starts) :: yes :: so i
      think we need to think about who would be involved, doing what, how each
      "player" benefits, etc - i think those are the elements of CC
      samwel: it is wonderful idea and can help poor community members
      lucas: and i think there are already networks around aids, am i right?
      samwel: we can do tha and postion our strategy well
      lucas: so there are "communities" already - which aparently is essential
      when thinking of CC
      lucas: i hope so!
      samwel: ok
      samwel: there are communities
      lucas: i think what i can do is ask for help on the yahoogroups
      lucas: please go on
      samwel: help on
      henry: I will try and discuss the issue of CC with Sam. I think I have
      some little idea.
      samwel: ok
      henry: I think we need to leave before these cyber cafe guys take our shoes
      lucas: hah!
      samwel: yes it is dark
      lucas: ok, so i await your email and i also write a few questions
      (exploring the subject) for cyfranogi (CC experts)
      henry: I'll keep in touch with updates and even give you feedback on the
      issue of LInux
      samwel: we will see where to base our thought and communicate
      lucas: ok! are you both in the same cyberplace?
      henry: Ken Odhiambo was also here and we had a good discussion
      henry: Yes
      samwel: yes
      henry: We are both at the same place
      lucas: oh, yes, linux - i'm still working with my people here to see how
      we might send some computers!
      lucas: but it's slow!
      henry: Sam has a cam if you are interested in seing his "ugly" face - haha
      lucas: and i need to find a way to send it so that it will not be too
      henry: Sure
      lucas: i've seen his photo on the icon here
      samwel: good to use linux as the people doesn't understand the difference
      lucas: he's not uglier than myself - i tried taking a photo and the
      camera just melted!
      henry: Hahaha
      lucas: but you're a linux convert, right? :)
      henry: Hahahahahaha
      henry: Sure. I very determined Convert
      samwel: yes after the source event
      samwel: hahaha
      henry: Sam is now connected to the cam. Look at his real appearance NOW
      lucas: i've helped organise our group a bit - not that they need help
      but i'm not an expert in computers so i help with talking to the press etc
      henry: We're almost leaving]
      lucas: ok
      samwel: we should do get them and do linux training or such like
      lucas: nope, can't see him in real time
      lucas: i think i can get some help from this end - in my linux user
      group here in the canary islands http://www.gulic.org
      samwel: what real time do you want
      henry: Let me tell him to invite you and you'll see his face
      lucas: i'm on linux (using gaim, an oldish version) - not sure i can see
      the picture
      lucas: trying
      samwel: ok that is why
      lucas: no, can't see sam moving - just a fixed image outside
      lucas: yes :(
      henry: Np
      samwel: now
      lucas: nope
      lucas: ok, so i save this - can i share it with our groups?
      lucas: public domain etc?
      henry: http://drupal.gulic.org/ I cant undestand the language
      lucas: it's spanish :)
      henry: Okey
      lucas: i'll share then
      samwel: ok
      lucas: good
      henry: Okey
      samwel: good to be together
      lucas: i'm eager to learn about your conversation - and explore what
      we've said
      henry: Allow us to save our reputation now
      lucas: yes, this has been great
      samwel: wonderful
      lucas: :)
      samwel: wait mornig and hear great news
      lucas: i've used skype with henry - not high quality sound when we tried
      - but good!
      lucas: ok!
      henry: I liked it
      lucas: fun hey?
      samwel: those are the best of the three
      samwel: guys
      henry: You can always call me anytine you feel like (oh not during the
      day. Always busy like hell fire)
      lucas: which three guys, sam?
      samwel: us
      lucas: henry: ok, i'll be careful
      henry: Maybe Sam is refering to his, wife, child and himself
      samwel: together and sharing
      henry: Bye for now
      lucas: ok, glad we met! bye!
      samwel: it is ok
      samwel: bye
      henry: Lucas, we're late for supper. Glad to have you here with us.

      Samwel Okech kongere
      Nyamuga primary school
      P.O BOX 191,
      MBITA  040305-KENYA.
      Computer specielist
      Community Development diploma student
      UDOGO youth development group-coordinator

      Yahoo! Mail
      Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

    • Lucas Gonzalez Santa Cruz
      Hi all! ... It might be because of prolonged draught. Possibly, the way to find out is to contact the apropriate authorities so they may in turn collect
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 27, 2006
        Hi all!

        Samwel wrote:

        >Last two days there occured birds death in Nairobi west and langata areas
        >giving threatening signs of the bird flu already here.
        >It was alarming to get 0ver 100 chicks and birds die on top of the trees
        >and authoritiesstill say it is because of the prolonged draught.

        It might be because of prolonged draught.

        Possibly, the way to find out is to contact the apropriate authorities
        so they may in turn collect samples, talk to the World Health
        Organisation and, if they see reason for concern, then send the samples
        to laboratories with resources.

        I don't know who those "apropriate authorities" are but there might be
        information here

        Yes, there's info about Kenya:

        >There must be preparedness in these countries.

        I think preparedness should happen even if there's no bird flu right now:

        * The "panzootic" (=disease in birds in many countries) is growing. It
        started in Asia and now it's in Europe and Africa. Not everywhere but
        in many places. There is doubts whether it travels with trade (legal or
        illegal) and/or with migratory birds, but I guess that doesn't matter.
        So I think it does make sense to prepare for the spread of disease in birds.
        * A "pandemic" (=disease in humans with human to human transmission
        which would be difficult or, at some point, impossible to stop) might
        start but no-one knows where, when or how bad. Minimising "bird to
        human" transmission would help (we hope) prevent a pandemic. If (WHO
        says "when, not if") there's a pandemic, then things would happen pretty
        quickly: human to human transmission would mean that it would take maybe
        only a few weeks until it reaches many countries, and then several weeks
        (4-8) weeks of "parallel local epidemics": first a few humans, then
        more, then many more, then less, then even less ... then probably a
        second "wave" about 3-9 months later. This would happen all over the
        world more or less simultaneously, so the time to prepare is not "when
        it has already started", but "as soon as possible".
        * Preparedness regarding the panzootic has some points in common with
        preparedness regarding a pandemic:
        ** for a panzootic it's only "poultry workers" who must change how they
        do things, for a pandemic it's everyone.
        ** for a panzootic we want to foster cooperation about infected birds,
        in a pandemic we want cooperation regarding humans.

        So preparedness makes sense and it makes sense now or as soon as possible.

        What we need to think about is "WHAT" we should do, and then "HOW" to do it.

        >After two days the livestock department came out when the residents in
        those areas had even touched the dead chicks withy bare handsand nobody
        could not even say where the chicks came from before being damped there.
        We need some cautions preparedness if there is some threatening menance
        to our population.

        >Go on and let's have insights as you might such ideas from where you are.

        Ok. I've started working on a wiki page at

        The content right now is simple:
        to do:
        * Create link in
        * copy the gist of our messages over to this page
        * add link to Kenyan experts (done)
        * look for WHO recomendations
        * set up a plan with questions we need to reply to

        I welcome our help and thoughts both on our lists and on that page.

        Thank you Samwel!

      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.