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Re: [fightingpeacefully] Re: [holistichelping] Proposal: Help Room for Nonviolent Jihad

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  • Wael Al Saad
    something else Andrius. We should discuss the lines about the reality on the ground intensively so that the info you are giving is more accurate. For example
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 17, 2009
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      something else Andrius. We should discuss the lines about the reality on the ground intensively so that the info you are giving is more accurate. For example today you can speak about thunders of check points.  Today for example you will cross 2 check points with seldom stop for control when you travel from Jenin to Nablus or to Ramallah. 
      We can go through this when you have the chance to modify your proposal. 

      Wael 

      On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 8:19 PM, Janet Feldman <kaippg@...> wrote:
       

      Dear Andrius, Wael, and All,

      This is an excellent idea and proposal, and one well worth pursuing! It sounds very exciting and also invaluable in terms of peaceful ways to address conflict and development, within and for each individual, and also among and for the collective.

      I have a few questions/observations:

      -I wonder if the budget is "realistic", in terms of a proposal that can be accepted? My concern is that it might seem too much for something not already operational. But do you know if Knight can accept the idea, while modifying (downsizing, if they see fit) the budget? If so, perhaps leave it "as is", and see what happens...we may be pleasantly surprised!

      -I think you should explain an "economy of dreams", as that might not be self-evident except to those of us in MS forums.

      -I think this project should encourage Palestinians to lead the way on what news is important to them (both to create and to convey). This proposal does have a lot of that built into it, of course, but I'm a bit concerned that some of it appears more "global" than Knight might be looking for, and also more "directed" or influenced externally (re questions and considerations).

      That's why I suggested, a few weeks ago, that health and development topics might be of ultimate importance, along with peace and conflict issues, of course. Your idea of reframing how "news" is defined is hugely pertinent in general--esp with a focus on individual thinkers and personal dreams--but I wonder if it will "fly" in the context of this particular competition.

      Is it possible to tweak it a bit now? If so, I hope these suggestions are helpful. With great excitement and all the best of luck! Janet



      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Andrius Kulikauskas <ms@...>
      >Sent: Dec 15, 2009 7:11 PM
      >To: fightingpeacefully@yahoogroups.com, minciu_sodas_AR@yahoogroups.com, socialagriculture@yahoogroups.com, help group <holistichelping@yahoogroups.com>, risingvoices@...
      >Subject: [holistichelping] Proposal: Help Room for Nonviolent Jihad
      >
      >I modified my "help room" proposal to focus on Israeli-occupied
      >Palestine. Thank you to Wael Al Saad and to Baruch for a helpful chat by
      >Skype which I share further below. Today is the deadline for the Knight
      >News Challenge http://www.newschallenge.org I appreciate our thoughts,
      >comments and votes for my proposal: http://www.helproom.org/proposal/
      >Andrius Kulikauskas, Minciu Sodas, http://www.ms.lt, ms@...
      >---------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >Project Title: Help Room for Nonviolent Jihad
      >Requested amount from Knight News Challenge: 480,000 USD
      >Expected amount of time to complete project: 3 years
      >Total cost of project including all sources of funding: 600,000 USD
      >
      >Describe your project:
      >
      >The West Bank is fragmented by hundreds of internal check points manned
      >by Israeli defense forces. Palestinian youth are often afraid to venture
      >out of a city such as Nablus for fear of being held and imprisoned
      >without cause. They talk patriotically, but lack practice in “fighting
      >peacefully” by which Indians, Black Americans and Eastern Europeans won
      >freedom. Our project is to coach Palestinian youth in at least ten
      >locations to staff an online chat room where they help Palestinians
      >locally and globally, help others around the world, and practice
      >“fighting peacefully”. These locations will be primarily in the West
      >Bank (Nablus, Jenin, Hebron) and also, as possible, in Israel and Gaza.
      >We'll coach the youth to know themselves, their deepest values, the
      >questions they wish to answer, what they would like to achieve, and
      >their dreams in life. We'll train them to engage each other and address
      >these issues working openly in the Public Domain, in Arabic and English,
      >using chat, emails, wikis, blogs, RSS, Skype, audio, video and other
      >tools. We'll meet regularly at each location and also online as a
      >network. We'll practice helping others, both locally and online,
      >especially independent thinkers who have novel ideas for ecology,
      >economy, culture, faith, education, society, agriculture and technology.
      >We'll collect their dreams, express them artistically and integrate them
      >with an “economy of dreams” and practical tasks online and
      >on-the-ground. We'll develop a theory and practice of “nonviolent
      >jihad”. We'll practice by helping as online assistants for activists in
      >Zimbabwe, Afghanistan and other troubled lands. We'll reach out to the
      >Palestinian diaspora and also Jews in Israel and around the world. Our
      >work will center around our chat room.
      >
      >How will your project improve the way news and information are delivered
      >to geographic communities?
      >
      >We're showing that we can reshape assumptions of “what is news” by
      >taking personal intiative: focusing on the value of each individual,
      >appreciating their self-knowledge, embracing local dreams. Helping
      >others is a way to let go of victimhood. A network of thriving hubs
      >changes what is possible. Activity at one hub inspires other hubs. As we
      >help each other with our own projects, we build teams that help others
      >around the world. This opens up economic opportunity locally and
      >globally. Our chat room will allow local groups to participate in global
      >dialogue, to cultivate relationships with Jews and others, to build
      >credibility by working together, facing and overcoming practical
      >obstacles. Such opportunity makes news more relevant.
      >
      >How is your idea innovative? (new or different from what already exists)
      >
      >Eluned Hurn of Wales is a peace activist who inspires us with her
      >deepest value of “fighting peacefully”. We enjoy peace by actively
      >addressing injustice, by acknowledging, engaging, understanding and
      >loving our enemy, by looking at everything from their point of view. Our
      >chat room gives us practice for open dialogue with other people, shows
      >the ways that we can help others, and builds relationships for ambitious
      >projects. Meeting locally, we learn to use the chat room and that leads
      >to the use of all the other online tools by which we circulate content,
      >respond to it in the many ways we can, and share it further with
      >bloggers and correspondents. “Nonviolent jihad” is an Islamic grounding
      >of this dynamic.
      >
      >What experience do you or your organization have to successfully develop
      >this project?
      >
      >Andrius Kulikauskas is a 2008 Knight News Challenge award winner for The
      >Includer, an idea for a hardware device for our Kenyan participants with
      >marginal Internet access. In 1998, Andrius founded Minciu Sodas as an
      >online network for independent thinkers. We have 150 active and 2,000
      >supportive participants and have written 35,000 letters, 5,000 wiki
      >pages and 85,000 lines of chat. In 2008, we organized the Pyramid of
      >Peace www.pyramidofpeace.net of 100 peacemakers on-the-ground and 100
      >helpers online to avert genocide in Kenya. We shared mobile phone
      >credits as an emergency community currency. Our leaders overcame tribal
      >anger, engaged gangs and opened roads for food, medicine, fuel and
      >refugees, and saved lives. Andrius coached our Kenyan leaders how to
      >“look at everything from your enemy's point of view” and apply
      >principles he practiced in Soviet-occupied Lithuania, the Chicago ghetto
      >and Israeli-occupied Palestine. In 2006, Andrius looked for Islamic
      >independent thinkers in Israel and Palestine, and taught “fighting
      >peacefully” for three weeks at An-Najah National University in Nablus,
      >including practical exercises at the Hawara checkpoint. The Zajel Youth
      >Exchange Program is excited to help as are Awne Abu Zant and other
      >students who collected 300 food stories for our work for Unamesa
      >Association to create www.myfoodstory.info Wael Al Saad in Jenin, who
      >lived for many years in Germany, is our visionary for a new Palestine
      >using economy as vehicle for change towards an ecological culture.
      >
      >--------------------------------------------------
      >
      >[21:06:43] Andrius Kulikauskas: Hi Wael, I'm adapting my Knight News
      >Challenge proposal for Israeli-occupied Palestine.
      >[21:07:09] Wael Al Saad: Hi Andrius
      >[21:07:19] Andrius Kulikauskas: How are you?
      >[21:07:32] … I wrote a "help room" proposal earlier.
      >[21:08:03] … http://www.helproom.org/proposal/
      >[21:08:29] … I'm going to rewrite it tonight so that it is centered
      >around helping Palestinans learn to help themselves and others.
      >[21:08:40] … Like for the other proposal we were hoping to do.
      >[21:08:56] … If you have some thoughts, that's great. I'm stepping out
      >for 20 minutes now.
      >[21:09:07] Wael Al Saad: I have added you on faceBook .. I sended you a
      >link about our Marda Permaculture Farm, group on faceBook
      >[21:09:28] … Sure.
      >[21:09:37] … i have a simple basic, and big thought:
      >[21:10:16] … palestinians and Palestine is something unique which can
      >not be shaped with a state and borders
      >[21:12:03] … we are a global entity. But political fragmentation and
      >blaiming Israel all the time for our miserable situation is making our
      >collective situation much complicated and our social-building very week.
      >[21:12:19] … Beside the georgrafical fragmentation
      >[21:13:11] … the web and bottom up healing economy could be a vision to
      >bring people together by using the free market and the web to make out
      >of the fragmented entitiy an interconnected living body
      >[21:40:05] Andrius Kulikauskas: that's great - I forgot about the diaspora
      >[21:42:13] Wael Al Saad: it is too sad and emmotional volcano Andrius ..
      >when tow Palestnians look deep in the eyes of each others and there
      >hards .. it is too hard to describe the hidden aspirations
      >[21:42:51] Andrius Kulikauskas: I think even just submitting a proposal
      >is a small step in support of these dreams
      >[21:43:57] … Wael, what is your dream in life? May I list it with our
      >dreams ? http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Dreams
      >[21:44:24] … What can we call this proposal?
      >[21:43:03] Wael Al Saad: there is more Palestinian outside WestBank and
      >Gaza than
      >[21:43:53] … these people are living at the edge of life just for
      >livelihood .. they feel sick about traditional political struggle
      >[21:46:09] … so, my question wheather we are able to develop a platfrom
      >of meta-collective intellgence to feed local and regional development
      >with global creativity so that we can develop 21-century borderless
      >nation open for the world and humanity, from our fragmented network/ but
      >bounded emotional entity as Palesinian, including a real new meaning in
      >being Palestinian?
      >[21:49:04] Andrius Kulikauskas: My basic idea is to organize an online
      >chat room with a public archive and coach Palestinian youth to link
      >together at least 10 centers in West Bank, Israel and Gaza to practice
      >helping others in Palestine and around the world and ultimately,
      >practice "fighting peacefully".
      >[21:49:39] … So all who want to help Palestinians, including diaspora,
      >Jews and others, can get to know each other and practice together on
      >small local problems and also on global issues.
      >[21:49:45] … Does that make sense?
      >[21:49:51] … And what would be a good name for that?
      >[21:50:09] … Nonviolent Jihad ?
      >[21:50:12] Wael Al Saad: I would say "emerging together in 21-century
      >eare peacfully"
      >[21:50:33] … there is a site "Israeliforpalestine"
      >[21:50:35] Andrius Kulikauskas: Would the term "nonviolent jihad" make
      >sense?
      >[21:51:36] Wael Al Saad: Jihad is basicly, struggling with the SELF
      >[21:51:47] Andrius Kulikauskas: yes
      >[21:52:00] … I'm attracted to coopting the term
      >[21:52:18] Wael Al Saad: but often it is truned into Islamisizing the issue
      >[21:54:31] Andrius Kulikauskas: I can use the term, yes?
      >[21:54:36] … "nonviolent jihad"
      >[21:55:32] Wael Al Saad: the complex question is, how we can build
      >constructive relationsips between us humans in new way, where we
      >construct the path for change ourself ..
      >[21:55:42] Andrius Kulikauskas: yes
      >[21:55:57] … I'm just double checking about the term because I think it
      >would be a good title for my proposal.
      >[21:56:07] … Because its very memorable and potent.
      >[21:56:16] … And its original - the domain is available.
      >[21:56:33] … So I would get it unless you think its a mistake.
      >[21:56:48] … How would it sound to a Palestinian?
      >[21:56:56] … Because I hope it might have moral authority as a term.
      >[21:57:15] Wael Al Saad: do you want me to include other new freind into
      >discussion? It is really worth to look deeper into the term
      >[21:57:25] Andrius Kulikauskas: yes please
      >[21:58:49] * Wael Al Saad invited baruchzed
      >[22:00:20] Wael Al Saad: Andi, Baruch is from
      >http://www.healingmagic.org/ .. this is our first contact. he wants to
      >interview me tomrrow for his site
      >[22:00:37] Baruch: Greetings Andi and Wael
      >[22:00:56] Wael Al Saad: Baruch, Andrius is re-working his propsal to
      >create a global help-room for Palestinian ..
      >http://www.helproom.org/proposal/
      >[22:01:10] Andrius Kulikauskas: Hi Baruch
      >[22:01:21] … yes I'm rewriting that proposal to focus on Palestinians
      >[22:01:40] Wael Al Saad: so he asked me if "nonviolent jihad" could be a
      >good title for the propsal in the time you wrote me
      >[22:01:40] Andrius Kulikauskas: My basic idea is to organize an online
      >chat room with a public archive and coach Palestinian youth to link
      >together at least 10 centers in West Bank, Israel and Gaza to practice
      >helping others in Palestine and around the world and ultimately,
      >practice "fighting peacefully".
      >[22:01:46] Baruch: It's a great idea...I am reading the proposal
      >[22:02:27] … I think if all our wars could become online chats...even if
      >people said terrible things...and didn;t act them out in the physical
      >world...it would be an improvement.
      >[22:02:51] … My radio show is http://paradigms.bz if you want to check
      >it out...
      >[22:03:10] Andrius Kulikauskas: Yes and here are my letters about my
      >practice of "fighting peacefully" at the Hawara Checkpoint
      >http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?HawaraCheckpoint
      >[22:03:12] … Great!
      >[22:03:54] Baruch: For Dec 20 I am doing a Peace episode with interviews
      >and music to offer listeners opportunities to imagine Peace.
      >[22:04:09] Andrius Kulikauskas: Wonderful!
      >[22:04:12] Baruch: I love your checkpoint idea! It reads easily and
      >makes total sense.
      >[22:04:16] Andrius Kulikauskas: Where are you located?
      >[22:04:34] Baruch: I realized recently that some people simply cannot
      >imagine Peace, and so they can;t participate in making it if they can;t
      >imagine it.
      >[22:04:43] … I am in Vermont in the northeastern part of the US.
      >[22:04:51] Andrius Kulikauskas: Yes I tried it out and it went very
      >well. But the Palestinian graduate students in Nablus were too
      >frightened to try it.
      >[22:05:26] Baruch: I have been to Israel twice to teach workshops, and
      >all my Israeli friends were too afraid to cross into the territories
      >with me...
      >[22:05:37] Andrius Kulikauskas: But I was able to show that nonviolence
      >doesn't need to be passive and it doesn't need to be forceful, it can be
      >fighting spirit.
      >[22:05:38] … I see.
      >[22:05:41] Baruch: and I didn;t want to go by myself...so it didn't happen.
      >[22:06:05] Wael Al Saad: Andrius, I think we should develop something
      >new, by turing the struggle into internal constructive path, so that we
      >gain new basic for healing collective action as Palestinian without
      >making some-one else is responsible for our dilmma .. so we have to do
      >the best out of the moment, without waiting a third party is going to
      >shape the change
      >[22:06:08] Baruch: The warrior does not have to be a killer or an
      >oppressor or a reactor...the warrior can be filled with love and integrity.
      >[22:06:17] Andrius Kulikauskas: I was in Israel and Israeli-occupied
      >Palestine for eight weeks looking for Islamic independent thinkers.
      >[22:06:18] … Yes!
      >[22:06:44] … Eluned Hurn in Wales told me her deepest value was
      >"fighting peacefully" and I have treasured that attitude and I'm
      >pursuing that here.
      >[22:06:47] Baruch: Wael yes...the inner work is what changes the outer
      >world...
      >[22:07:09] Andrius Kulikauskas: How do you imagine that, Wael?
      >[22:07:27] Wael Al Saad: so, we are trapped into the victim role .. and
      >so we reproducing same reality creating or now
      >[22:07:30] … *our NOW
      >[22:07:55] Andrius Kulikauskas: yes and that's why I want to encourage
      >helping others and forgetting about ones own victimhood
      >[22:08:46] Wael Al Saad: something new need to happen without puting
      >Israel in the main equation. Cuz you will find 10.000.000 different
      >relationships to "Israel"
      >[22:08:47] Baruch: Wael yes...my life work has been as a psychologist,
      >and this is exactly what you see with strauma survivors who have not
      >addressed their trauma...identification as victim and then
      >perpetrator...that, in my opinion, is what drives Israel's
      >violence...that and the US and many corporations.
      >[22:09:01] … trauma, not strauma
      >[22:09:25] Wael Al Saad: Andrius was aking me about my dream:
      >[22:10:01] … You should make it to WestBank Baruch .. life here is about
      >commerce and commerce
      >[22:10:24] Baruch: hopefully I will be back in early 2010...
      >[22:10:41] Wael Al Saad: if you look into the minds of the people .. the
      >active part is about how to bring money into own bocket
      >[22:11:00] … so there is this dammed money box
      >[22:11:38] … new change course need lot of creativity and collective
      >colaboration .. expressive energy need to be set free
      >[22:11:52] Baruch: the poor try to get money so they can survive, and
      >the middle class try to get money so they can get ahead, and the wealthy
      >try to get money so they can stay wealthy...and none of those motives
      >consider the greater good...
      >[22:13:24] Andrius Kulikauskas: yes
      >[22:13:46] … How many check points are there in the West Bank?
      >[22:14:13] Wael Al Saad: so, the basic point to go from is what people
      >are in NOW, economy! My dream is about designing a new enviornement
      >using economy as vehichle for change, where within this envionrement
      >higher levels of cultural memes and value creation is patterned
      >[22:14:40] … * where people within ..
      >[22:14:58] … interact
      >[22:15:20] … I need to formulate it better "sorry"
      >[22:15:22] Baruch: you would be interested in the work of Dean Cycon who
      >is a coffee importer in the US, but has created a model of fair trade
      >with the farmers he works with... http://deansbeans.com
      >[22:15:56] Wael Al Saad: at the end it is not about trade
      >[22:16:12] … We live in system of crises
      >[22:16:24] Andrius Kulikauskas: Designing a new environment using
      >economy as a vehicle for change, where within this environment we
      >pattern higher levels of cultural memes and value creation.
      >[22:16:29] … Is that right?
      >[22:16:37] Baruch: Dean's work is also about creating a different form
      >of economy... his interview is at
      >http://www.healingmagic.org/wbkm/paradigms/august232009.html
      >[22:16:49] Wael Al Saad: masses are consuming reality and normalities
      >but co-creating none of them
      >[22:18:33] … the state model, the borders between nations, the
      >corrupting authorities and the dirthy politcal mind working for
      >executive power .. the international law, UN .. and many other concepts
      >are getting smached on the core of "Palestinian" issue
      >[22:19:25] Baruch: at this point what's happening in Israel/Palestine is
      >so deeply part of global corporate behavior, i.e. weapons makers etc.,
      >that the actual issues have been lost, or so it seems to me.
      >[22:19:27] Wael Al Saad: this world is the issue
      >[22:19:41] Baruch: exactly Wael.
      >[22:20:09] Wael Al Saad: sure Baruch .. there is powers who are
      >profiting from this reality and con not survive without it
      >[22:20:11] … BUT
      >[22:20:32] … these power themselves also need an alterantives.
      >[22:20:45] Baruch: other than being dismantled?
      >[22:20:50] Wael Al Saad: they are trapped into somthing they used to
      >like the masses
      >[22:20:54] Andrius Kulikauskas: I agree with you Wael.
      >[22:21:04] Baruch: yes I agree too...
      >[22:21:17] Andrius Kulikauskas: Wael I will write this as your dream:
      >Designing a new environment using economy as a vehicle for change, where
      >within this environment we pattern higher levels of cultural memes and
      >value creation.
      >[22:21:23] … unless you correct me
      >[22:21:25] Baruch: what kind of incentive appeals to people who are
      >consumed by the desire for wealth?
      >[22:21:34] Andrius Kulikauskas: Baruch, I'm collecting our
      >dreams-in-life http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Dreams
      >[22:21:44] Wael Al Saad: The last couple of years I have stopped to
      >search for an enemy .. we are all victims
      >[22:22:12] … I have started to search deep inside me and trying to
      >understand which change need to take place in the pure human
      >[22:22:25] Baruch: Andi...cool...can I link to this for my Peace show on
      >Sunday? each episode of the show gets it's own page, I'd love to have a
      >link to this on sunday's show.
      >[22:23:16] Wael Al Saad: Andrius .. we need to put better formulation
      >[22:24:47] … the concept of "healing" and "riping" are making collisions
      >[22:25:40] … are we learning to be better humans, or we are healing form
      >something to get to a status we have been before?
      >[22:27:33] Baruch: I think of healing as that moment when we feel our
      >wholeness...when all our "parts" are aligned and we are our truest selves.
      >[22:28:10] Andrius Kulikauskas: yes please Baruch do link
      >[22:28:11] Wael Al Saad: it is a status of being
      >[22:28:33] Andrius Kulikauskas: what do you mean by "riping" Baruch?
      >[22:28:44] … I mean, what do you mean by "riping", Wael
      >[22:28:54] … Here are my first few sentences: The West Bank is
      >fragmented by hundreds of internal check points manned by Israeli
      >defense forces. Palestinian youth are often afraid to venture out of a
      >city such as Nablus for fear of being held and imprisoned without cause.
      >They talk patriotically, but generally lack practice in “fighting
      >peacefully” by which Indians, Black Americans and Eastern Europeans
      >triumphed against British, American and Soviet might.
      >[22:28:56] Wael Al Saad: getting ripe
      >[22:29:34] Andrius Kulikauskas: I see, you are saying, are we looking
      >towards the future or the past as our ultimate state?
      >[22:29:58] … I believe that life looks backwards towards death, but
      >eternal life looks forward endlessly.
      >[22:30:34] … Life assumes that God is good, but eternal life
      >acknowledges that God doesn't have to be good, that there is a lot of
      >bad that we have to address before we can say that God is good.
      >[22:30:42] Wael Al Saad: being in whoness alignment is getting the mind
      >scielent in active awaken intellgence : time is now. future and past are
      >irrelvent
      >[22:30:59] Baruch: what Wael said.
      >[22:31:35] Wael Al Saad: so Baruch. there is nothing to heal it is like
      >being aligned to the whole or not
      >[22:31:58] Baruch: past and future are fantasies, and "God" means
      >different things to everyone.
      >[22:32:30] Wael Al Saad: But this point is very spiritual and hard to
      >address in public work .. or building through it relationship to
      >political acitons
      >[22:32:31] Baruch: Wael...yes and no...there is no static state of
      >alignment or balance, we are always changing...but we have moments, and
      >there are things we can do to foster such moments...and that, to me, is
      >healing.
      >[22:33:40] … a way to bring spirituality into politics without turning
      >people off is, I think, simply to be one's truest self and to be guided
      >by ethics in one's politics.
      >[22:33:50] Wael Al Saad: and my point is of desiging the
      >job-enviornement is to put so much patterns of wholness "holistic
      >healing green economy"
      >[22:34:13] … so, when some one is part of this bodey he is in touch of
      >so much energy of creation at once
      >[22:34:59] Andrius Kulikauskas: proposal: Our project is to coach
      >Palestinian youth in at least ten locations to staff an online chat room
      >where they help Palestinians locally and globally, help others around
      >the world, and practice “fighting peacefully”.
      >[22:35:19] Wael Al Saad: over the time we develop a new filter of
      >thinking and way to look into reality creation
      >[22:36:33] … Sorry Andrius to drift out of topic .. but you may try to
      >include new ideas to write something can really make differnt
      >[22:36:48] … "Baruch
      >[22:36:51] … nice music
      >[22:36:56] Baruch: Someone, say, Netenyahu, who is doing things that
      >hurt people...is it his deepest desire to harm others? Is there part of
      >him that wants peace between people? Could he have a healing experience
      >that would alter his point of view and thus his behavior? I used to
      >think everyone could be healed of their psychological wounds, but I have
      >come to believe differently. Some cannot, and some will not. So given
      >the reality that such people are in positions of power, how do we, at
      >the grass roots level, turn away from the path of violence which is
      >offered at every turn, and maake something new?
      >[22:37:15] … Thanks Wael :-) Good music helps people to hear the messages.
      >[22:37:16] Andrius Kulikauskas: Wael it's all very helpful and please I
      >welcome your and Baruch's ideas
      >[22:38:08] … proposal: These locations will be primarily in the West
      >Bank (Nablus, Jenin, Hebron) and also, as possible, in Israel and Gaza.
      >[22:38:19] … Is there a site in the diaspora that would make sense?
      >[22:39:09] Wael Al Saad: Baruch, I am thinking about it .. the issue is
      >not with Netenyahu or any leader. The issue of mechansim of developing
      >reality. So the issue is to change the understanding of leadership into
      >the society.
      >[22:40:35] … Instead of focusing the energy to unitary leaders, who like
      >to be heared and clapped, we open the space for our energy for
      >sustaibale constrcting actions
      >[22:41:14] … econmy, the web and the free are best tools to get into
      >such new *experience*
      >[22:41:35] … free market instead of free ..
      >[22:41:40] Baruch: Wael...yes! If people started to meet in circles, or
      >councils, and make decisions for their communities, if this were to
      >build upon itself, the unitary powers would eventually become irrelevant.
      >[22:42:24] … One such model, however imperfect, is the Reclaiming
      >community, which has thousands of people in it around the world, and
      >works by concensus in local groups.
      >[22:44:13] Wael Al Saad: the bottom up green association I have in mind
      >will provide all these innovation, without highlighting the significance
      >of them. The experiencer should determin the signficance him self and
      >help developing it
      >[22:44:16] Andrius Kulikauskas: proposal: We will coach the youth to to
      >know themselves, their deepest values in life, the questions they wish
      >to answer, what they would like to achieve, and their dreams in life. We
      >will coach them to engage each other and address these issues using
      >chat, emails, wikis, blogs, RSS, Skype, audio, video and other tools.
      >[22:46:08] Wael Al Saad: ~ the reality the want to create and share
      >[22:46:31] Baruch: I like your proposal. One thought. When coaching
      >youth in this way, they are going to have emotional backlash...some of
      >the stuff that feels bad will rise to the surface as they receive
      >nourishment...
      >[22:46:41] Andrius Kulikauskas: yes?
      >[22:46:57] Wael Al Saad: me also .. why to address youth
      >[22:46:58] Baruch: I would suggest adding in some kind of support
      >component, like volunteer counselors (I volunteer!) to be available to
      >people as needed.
      >[22:46:59] Wael Al Saad: ?
      >[22:47:17] Baruch: true for everyone, not just youth.
      >[22:47:25] Wael Al Saad: I find many youth have more inegerity than many
      >adults in Palestine
      >[22:47:38] Andrius Kulikauskas: proposal: We will meet regularly at each
      >location and also online as a network. We will practice helping others,
      >both locally and online, especially independent thinkers who have novel
      >ideas for ecology, culture, society and faith.
      >[22:47:54] … I should add economy, technology, agriculture and what else?
      >[22:48:04] Baruch: education.
      >[22:48:15] Andrius Kulikauskas: yes
      >[22:48:24] Wael Al Saad: economic social-ecology ~ see our project at
      >Marda Farm
      >[22:48:30] Baruch: and if you can get concepts of permaculture in there...
      >[22:48:38] … social ecology, yes...
      >[22:48:53] Wael Al Saad:
      >http://sites.google.com/site/mardapermaculturecentre/home/future-projects/course-2010/funder-wanted-letter
      >[22:50:09] Baruch: Great letter...
      >[22:50:08] Wael Al Saad: I will prepare indegenious forgetten social
      >eveneing games to hav eprofit of in the evenings of the two and half
      >weeks programm duraction
      >[22:50:29] … I want to show value in indegeniousity
      >[22:50:45] Baruch: This site sprang out of some urban permaculture work
      >I did in Holland last year http://urban-permaculture.blogspot.com/ I'd
      >love to get Marda's stuff listed there.
      >[22:51:22] Wael Al Saad: We are hidding to build a site .. we need lot
      >of support to get our plans done
      >[22:52:21] Baruch: If I had money I'd donate!
      >[22:52:44] Wael Al Saad: slowly we are on the track .. I wish I could
      >practice this work full time
      >[22:53:12] … I am working in our family business "imort/wholetrade business"
      >[22:53:38] … Starhawk know Marda Farm very well BTW
      >[22:54:16] Baruch: yes she is the person who told me about Marda...I
      >almost visited last year but Uri's wife, whose name I forgot, was giving
      >birth so the timing was not good.
      >[22:54:58] Andrius Kulikauskas: Wael, Baruch, may I share this chat
      >through my lab's email groups?
      >[22:55:14] Baruch: It's fine with me, thanks for asking.
      >[22:56:21] Wael Al Saad: ok Andrius .. please try to extract the summery
      >of my thoughts, so that it will help me to present them in better way in
      >next occacion
      >[22:57:02] … writing hs never been my streagth .. it works much better
      >with chating/conversation
      >[22:57:28] Baruch: I will use the links, thank you both. I also need to
      >go...and Wael we will speak on Skype tomorrow, about 21 hours from now.
      >[22:57:43] Wael Al Saad: OK Baruch ..
      >[22:57:51] … I need to go as well
      >[22:58:02] … Thanks Andius for openign the space to share
      >[22:58:10] Andrius Kulikauskas: Thank you!
      >[22:58:15] Baruch: Anid, great to meet you...If I can help with your
      >project, let me know. I used to run help rooms for computer users on AOL
      >[22:58:26] Andrius Kulikauskas: Great!
      >[22:58:27] Baruch: and may have some ideas which could be helpful.
      >[22:58:38] Andrius Kulikauskas: Baruch quickly, may I sign you up for
      >one of my lab Minciu Sodas email groups?
      >[22:58:41] Baruch: my email is baruch@...
      >[22:58:55] Andrius Kulikauskas: Do you have a deepest value in life
      >which includes all of your other values?
      >[22:59:04] … That's how we organize ourselves.
      >[22:59:14] Baruch: Love.
      >[22:59:24] Andrius Kulikauskas: We have one group on "fighting
      >peacefully". Could I sign you up for that?
      >[22:59:30] Baruch: Sure!
      >[22:59:33] Andrius Kulikauskas: May I post that on the web? What do you
      >mean by love?
      >[23:00:46] Wael Al Saad: hahha .. you can not use the parts to describe
      >the whole :)
      >[23:01:05] Baruch: love is a word...by using it here I mean to say that
      >there is a substance or energy that connects everything in the
      >cosmos...that is love...so love is the reality of our interconnectedness.
      >[23:01:22] Andrius Kulikauskas: the reality of our interconnectedness
      >[23:01:32] Baruch: yes you can post my email address...
      >[23:01:33] Andrius Kulikauskas: and what name do I use, Baruch, simply?
      >[23:01:36] Baruch: yes
      >[23:01:54] Wael Al Saad: feelings and intutions cannot be objective
      >simply in worlds
      >[23:01:59] Baruch: if they want to know more about me you can send them
      >to http://paradigms.bz or http://healingmagic.org
      >[23:02:18] Wael Al Saad: good night from Jenin
      >[23:02:28] Baruch: Bon soir a Vermont!
      >[23:02:53] Andrius Kulikauskas: http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Baruch
      >[23:02:55] … Good night!
      >
      >
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      >
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      >
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    • Andrius Kulikauskas
      Wael, Yes! Thank you for clarifying the new situation. I did send those sentences to you during our chat, though. Let s see if this proposal is chosen to
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 18, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Wael, Yes! Thank you for clarifying the new situation. I did send
        those sentences to you during our chat, though. Let's see if this
        proposal is chosen to advance further, and let's look for other
        possibilities, too. Thank you for your leaedership! Andrius
        Kulikauskas, Minciu Sodas, ms@..., http://www.ms.lt

        Wael Al Saad wrote:
        > something else Andrius. We should discuss the lines about the reality
        > on the ground intensively so that the info you are giving is more
        > accurate. For example today you can speak about thunders of check
        > points. Today for example you will cross 2 check points with seldom
        > stop for control when you travel from Jenin to Nablus or to Ramallah.
        > We can go through this when you have the chance to modify your proposal.
        >
        > Wael
        >
        >
        > >[22:13:24] Andrius Kulikauskas: yes
        > >[22:13:46] … How many check points are there in the West Bank?
        >
        > >[22:28:54] … Here are my first few sentences: The West Bank is
        > >fragmented by hundreds of internal check points manned by Israeli
        > >defense forces. Palestinian youth are often afraid to venture out
        > of a
        > >city such as Nablus for fear of being held and imprisoned without
        > cause.
        > >They talk patriotically, but generally lack practice in “fighting
        > >peacefully” by which Indians, Black Americans and Eastern Europeans
        > >triumphed against British, American and Soviet might.
        >
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