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Accountabilty of those who belong to Christ-Jesus

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  • Benoit Couture
        Salut everyone,   Andrius and I are involved in a conversation that deals with money and its meaning. It is pasted from a thread on Loving God group
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 16, 2009
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      Salut everyone,
       
      Andrius and I are involved in a conversation that deals with money and its meaning.
      It is pasted from a thread on Loving God group under the title of "Drugs/Youth and the Church" which began from a personal letter sent to me by Tom Ochuka.  It is at:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lovingGod/message/702
       
      If you intend to read the whole of these letters, I suggest that you begin at the bottom and make your way up.  If you just want a taste of it, read the first 2 pasted letters at the top of the page.
       
      Benoit Couture
      Edmonton, Canada
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
       
      Oct 16, 2009
       
      Salut Andrius,
       
      You wrote:
      "The phrase "life skills" is I think misleading."
       
      The idea is to help those who are marginalized by their incapacity to cope within the local personal-socio-politico-cultural framework of existance and who end up  having to be supported by others to live their lives.
      Take your dad's financing out of your equation and that fits you. 
       
      You wrote:
      " I think that teaching such "life skills" for
      money is bogus. I think it's far removed from Jesus's way."
       
      If I knew where to go to get a fish with money in its mouth as Jesus did, I would go and get it.
       
      You ask:
      "But first, have you been able to do it(teaching life skills) for free?"
       
      Yes for over thirty years.
       
      You go on with:
      " Are you any good at teaching life skills to yourself or others? (You are so often
      confessing how bad you are at that.)"
       
      The reason I speak of The Faculty of Living is because the best way to teach life skills is to be part of one another's life context shoulder to shoulder. The Holy Spirit is the teacher.
      The apostle Paul says:
      Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 
      2Cr 12,9-10
       
      You go on with:
      "Benoit, I want to be supportive of you. If you want to teach people
      life skills for free, then I encourage you and, for example, you are
      very welcome at the help room to do that, as best you can."
       
      Where have you been since April 2005, the time when I began writing at Minciu Sodas?
      I just dont have the time to fit your business schedgule, but my participation has been to offer leadership, which you keep on saying that you greatly apreciate.  Leadership is part of life skills.
       
      I could never afford to work for you.  You depend on third world wages to distribute your work.  One hundred dollars is what I need per day for basic survival in Alberta Canada and yet you get a month's work out of Fred and Sasha for that amount.
       
      All the rest of your philosophical questioning regarding money and meaning of words like "nessecity" and so on are nothing but a mask to hide the fact that you are trapped in constant financial deficiencies.  Your questioning is your justification to go on investing yourself as you please, supported by other's finances.
      Until you and Minciu Sodas are debt free, you will go on twisting in the wind, unsettled about the simplicity of meaning, using philosophy to justify yourself.  That is why I look forward to the day when I can pay with real money for your services. 
      Regarding philosophy, the apostle Paul says in Col 2, 6-10:
      As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving. 
      Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.  For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
       
      You finish with:
      "I suppose we disagree, but I appreciate your letters, and perhaps we can
      understand each other."
       
      When it comes to survival, nessecity, money and well being, one of us is right and one of us is wrong: as simple as that.  But obviously, you can afford to be wrong and not care about it.  I can't.  You like to hold others accountable to a measure that you refuse for yourself in many areas.   I look forward to the day when the Lord heals you from that and from philosophy so that the Faith may be free in you. 
       
      As a parallel to what I am writing to you here in this letter Andrius, I deeply appreciate Jeff's letter of today
       
      Praying and hoping for your release and for all who need it, from the grip of philosophy and empty deceit.
       
      Benoit Couture
      Edmonton, Canada
      ----------------------------------------------------------------
      The above was to answer...
       
      Benoit,

      Thank you for explaining.

      I looked at your link http://calsca.com and I understand better what
      you're talking about. Maybe it's simply semantics. The phrase "life
      skills" is I think misleading. If they called it "employment skills" or
      simply "conformity skills" then I wouldn't object. But those aren't
      "life skills" in any fundamental sense.

      I suffer a lot from these people who have "employment skills" /
      "conformity skills".

      But perhaps you do mean "life skills" as in how to live your life. (For
      example, that it's blessed to get persecuted for being righteous -
      that's a life skill, yes?) I think that teaching such "life skills" for
      money is bogus. I think it's far removed from Jesus's way.

      But first, have you been able to do it for free? Are you any good at
      teaching life skills to yourself or others? (You are so often
      confessing how bad you are at that.) Although I appreciate your
      influence at our lab. But I don't think it's a focused influence, the
      kind where you have direct control.

      Money is like a drug or medicine. It can be a medicine if we take as
      little as possible. And that's the case when people earn money for work
      that they don't want to do, that they don't care to do. In such a
      world, the economy of "chores" is as small as possible, and the rest of
      life is what we focus on.

      So maybe you are teaching life skills because you don't want to do it,
      but there's such a great demand on you that you oblige people... but
      maybe, it's the other way around - you want to teach life skills, but
      there isn't anybody who wants you to teach them, even for free... in
      that case, it would make sense for you to pay them so they would let you
      teach them.

      Benoit, I want to be supportive of you. If you want to teach people
      life skills for free, then I encourage you and, for example, you are
      very welcome at the help room to do that, as best you can.

      If you want to earn money helping with all kinds of chores, then that's
      great, too, and I'm glad to include you. I wish you success in finding
      any kind of work.

      I'm just thinking through and sharing my own feelings on this subject.

      But maybe you are talking about employment skills, which is something
      else. I can teach somebody how to get a job, but I don't have to care
      if they do. But if I teach somebody how to live, shouldn't I care how
      they live? and how can any payment get me to care how they live? and how
      can anybody even prove that I care or not? unless they stop paying me.

      Do we use the word "necessity" differently, perhaps? "Life" is not a
      necessity, is it? It's a gift, isn't it? It's not a calamity if I die,
      is it? Or if my loved ones do? Although that can be painful. How can
      money be a necessity? It's an instrument, it's a concern, it's
      relevant, but ultimately, it's a game within a game. I just think not
      to keep money distinct from your bigger concerns. It's your bigger
      concerns, your dream in life, like the Edmonton Reconciliation Centre,
      that let us know what you really care about and can be part of our lab's
      "economy of dreams". Your need to make a living is also relevant,
      although I think secondary and separate.

      You write that "to care is the application of love in action and
      truth". How can money get you or me to care? How can money determine
      whether or not we act on our love? Our love has to be there before the
      money. And we get paid the same whether or not we love. Indeed, we get
      paid more if we don't love, because love has us go on tangents.

      What you do outside the lab is not my concern, except that I care about you.

      I suppose we disagree, but I appreciate your letters, and perhaps we can
      understand each other.

      Andrius

      Andrius Kulikauskas
      Minciu Sodas
      ---------------------------------------------------------
      The above was to answer...
       
      Salut Andrius,
       
      You wrote:
      "Money is an external motivation, not an internal motivation."
       
      I do not speak of money as "motivation" but as "necessity."
      For now, the where, why, what and how I live, money is a nessecity for survival and well being.
       
      You also wrote:
      ""People do need to make a living. But it's a separate question from
      whether or not they care."
       
      Perhaps when you are single and looking after no one else; but this is not so when marriage and children are involved or, like in Janet's case, when your time is taken up looking after someone who cannot look after themselves.  To care is the application of love in action and in truth.
       
      You finish with:
      "We don't get paid to care. We get paid to show up. We are people who
      care and we can get paid to show up. But those are two different things.
      Am I making sense?
      This is a good issue to think through in detail."
       
      The elimination of occupations where care is not involved are the details we need to rid the world of.  This elimination comes, not by going against, but rather, by feeding our time with employing ourselves in the occupation of love and of the care needed for survival and well being.
      The mature life skill I hope to bring forth will reverse well being from being subjected to survival and will subject survival to well being.  This will remove the possibility of money as a motivation, exterior or interior. 
       
      This feeding of our time is what I proposed to implement with the vision I serve since before  you and I ever met, and which I am now attempting to extend with my move towards the Life Skills Coaches Alliance of Canada.
       
      In that regard, here is the latest communications I had with the market experts I mentioned previously, who are working with me toward this implementation of renewal in which money becomes limited to serve the nessecities of survival under the authority of well being:
       
      So in reply to my last entry to that conversation which is pasted here in our conversation down below,
       
      Stewart wrote:
       
      Yes, or as a colleague wrote "Teamwork is an individual skill." We must
      first
      have capacity before we can engage well with others. Let me know if I can be
      helpful.

      Stewart
       
      David wrote:
       
      I agree with Stewart's encompassing observation. Also, just to add, in my
      experience, Life Skills practitioners seem to follow very different personal
      journeys in realising their calling. For example, a former internationaly
      recognised telecommunications strategist had a hip operation and now coaches
      others to face up to operations.

      Regarding AFN work, maybe we can test the waters from our end and report
      back with any progress.

      David
       
      And I replied this morning with:
       
      David,

      I just want to confirm that we are on the same page, in case I did not
      understand well what you meant about testing the waters with AFN. (Canada's Aboriginal
      governing body)

      Life Skills coaches are already quite involved with the Aboriginal
      population.
      The idea of getting on with Life Skills from the bottom up is to beat down a
      trail for the Faculty of Living that can be used by AFN leaders as well as
      the French and English leaders in order to learn from the past and to move
      forward by applying the renewal when, where and how it is needed.
      This is an all-inclusive project to involve big and small business and all
      taxpayers, under the umbrella of the cultural core of Canada.
      Life Skills coaches work I speak of are not into "facing up to a surgical
      operation". They are into teaching and training to live well in the daily
      grind of survival, which offers a universal handle to work from, including
      facing up to surgery and so much more.  http://calsca.com/

      Once solidly positioned within Canada's social policy in the movement from
      personal to communal, from micro to macro and from local to global through
      our institutions that include Health-Education-Correction, then we can
      invite the rest of the Commonwealth, of the Francophony and of the world's
      Aboriginal peoples to join the path.
      Who knows, perhaps that much of the UN will take notice as we begin and will
      join in to help.
      This is what I meant with:

      "Economically, I view this project as "Building the Recovery Road from
      self-destruction to self-control and community self-government".

      Politically, it provides individuals and cultures with a basis to adapt the
      meaning of Sovereignty to:

      "Sovereignty is the ability to make decisions in serene maturity and the
      capacity to implement these decisions with complete understanding, wisdom
      and responsibility".

      All the best in testing the waters with AFN.

      Benoit Couture
      Edmonton, Canada
      -------------------------------------------------
      The above was to answer...
       
      Benoit,
      Thank you.

      Whether or not people care inside, they get paid the same. In fact, the
      person who cares will lose out, money wise, because they put in extra
      effort.

      So I think it's misguided to pay people to care. It warps the whole
      context. Because the caring relationship typically works both ways so
      it's not fair to say, who cares for who. And often it may be better Not
      to care or give care (as in education, Not to educate) if there aren't
      the right conditions for that. But nobody can get paid for not doing
      things. So money warps the whole situation which is why we have the
      kind of education, health care, agriculture etc. that we do today.

      People do need to make a living. But it's a separate question from
      whether or not they care.

      Worknets is for a culture where people use their own best judgement.
      Money is an external motivation, not an internal motivation. So money
      is not helping us know what people actually care about. So money has to
      be in parallel to caring, basically separate from it.

      We don't get paid to care. We get paid to show up. We are people who
      care and we can get paid to show up. But those are two different things.

      Am I making sense? This is a good issue to think through in detail.

      Andrius

      Andrius Kulikauskas
      Minciu Sodas
      -----------------------------------------
      The above was to answer...
       
      Salut Andrius,
       
      Their site is:
       
      The Public Domain place where they meet on yahoo is at:
       
      As I mentioned earlier:
       
      "Our intent is to build a media venue to complement the Life Skills process with the model that establishes the Outreach Incentive Process.  This process is to move from patient to client to partner."
       
      ...which I follow up with:
       
      "...I offer a media process.  If I get a positive reply, I would then begin talks with Andrius to see if we could work together to develop the media side of the process that I propose."
       
      When you say:
      "One of the basic rules in Minciu Sodas and WorkNets is "money can bring
      people together, but you can't pay people to care". 
       
      Are you saying that using money as an instrument of support to care for each other is against Minciu Sodas' basics?
       
      For instance, if I were to come to you for that media aspect of the project, it would be with a financial offer for your service and for the teams that would work with you. 
      If we get to an agreement, does that mean that you will NOT care for the work I would need from you because you get paid for it?  Of course not!
       
      Where I live, health, education and correction are already integrated as vital parts of the economy.  Those people are paid by tax payers, so that they can be free to devote themselves to care. 
       
      Life Skills coaches are people who are trained in various disciplines of the humanities, such as psycologists and social workers.  They have been working to develop a successful aproach to heal people from destructive social conditions and kife styles.  Billions and billions of dollars are lost by companies each year.
       
      Hopefully that in time, the success of the Outreach Incentive Process will scale down the need of such services.  This would happen if we can transit enough people, who are in need of life skills, through the incentive I offer with patient-client-partner.
      By the time that enough patients would have transited and gotten ready for the partnership, then the societal shifts will have moved to accomodate sustainable life styles. 
       
      Benoit
      ------------------------------------------------------------
      The above was to answer...
       
      Hi Benoit,

      Do you have a link to the Life Skills program?

      One of the basic rules in Minciu Sodas and WorkNets is "money can bring
      people together, but you can't pay people to care". Often such programs
      are run as a "paid service", but I don't believe that can lead to us
      living as one. Instead, I think it encourages an escapism where we pay
      others so we can hand over our problems to them, rather than take up
      each other's challenges together.

      You have quite a vivid life dream and I hope we can work on it and share
      with all in the Public Domain. There are many ways that you can making
      a living without selling "life skills" and please let me know and I'm
      interested to include you in our lab's teams. We can create our own
      life skills lessons based on all that's available and our own
      experience. Indeed, I'm interest to create a series of ethical lessons
      for our worknets culture. Perhaps we might work on that together?

      Or did I not understand you?

      Andrius

      Andrius Kulikauskas
      Minciu Sodas
      --------------------------------------------------
       
      For the whole conversation since Tom Ochuka's letter, see:
       
      ...may all blessings be with us all...
      Benoit Couture
      Alberta, Canada
       
       
       


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    • Andrius Kulikauskas
      Benoit, Thank you for writing about this important topic. I agree that Jeff Buderer wrote a profound letter to Global Villages. A few corrections and
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 16, 2009
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        Benoit,

        Thank you for writing about this important topic. I agree that Jeff
        Buderer wrote a profound letter to Global Villages.

        A few corrections and additions to your letter below:

        * My parents do not finance Minciu Sodas. They weren't supportive when
        I started and for a time they wanted me to fail and move on. A few
        years ago my father recovered miraculously from lung cancer (he was
        supposed to die). After that, they have been happy for me as I am.
        * I do receive money from my parents for my birthday, for Christmas, and
        irregularly, just the same as my siblings. (With at least one exception,
        September 2008 I asked and they sent me $2,500.) Their gifts have
        averaged out to perhaps $6,000 per year (and less in the last few
        years). I also can and often do stay rent-free at their office in
        Vilnius, Lithuania.
        * I was born in the US and if I would have stayed there, I could be
        supporting myself by working part-time, as I did from the ages of 21 to
        33.
        * I studied hard at the best of universities for eleven years,
        culminating in a Ph.D. in mathematics.
        * I moved to Lithuania in 1997 because even as a child I was true to my
        parents' decision to raise me as a Lithuanian, and perhaps some day,
        have a Lithuanian family, and miracle of miracles, perhaps even live in
        Lithuania, if it ever became a free country. That's all great, but it
        wasn't my idea.
        * I do earn money, believe it or not. I earned $17,000 for teaching
        three months in Bosnia. I earned $14,100 for the Knight News Challenge
        prize.
        * The work that I have given to my team is generally work that I could
        have done all by myself. Greg Wolff dedicated $24,000 for me for My
        Food Story and I could have kept it all. It was my own decision to give
        half to my team. Leon Benjamin offered me the Mornflake research work
        (ultimately $12,000). It was my request that I include my team. I
        stand by my decisions because I think we showed what fantastic work we
        can do together, and the kind of work I'd like us to do. But to do so I
        had to share about half the money, which I think is very generous, more
        than anybody else I know. And then to insist that our work be in the
        Public Domain for all to use freely.
        * I have given work to dozens of people which has been for them
        significant amounts of income, often at crucial times in their life.
        Sometimes, as with Sasha Mrkailo's work for My Food Story (he collected
        1,200 stories, earned $1,200, and assured that our team got the $12,000
        of bonuses for collecting 2,000 stories) it's really made a difference
        in our "deliverables", but generally I avoid such "piecework" because in
        the big picture it's pointless (who cares now if we collected 1,000 or
        2,000 stories) and against the spirit of our lab. Instead, I have
        invested thousands of dollars in our participants like Sasha and Fred
        for small projects which have nothing to do with me serving clients, but
        everything to do with fleshing out our lab and our potential.
        * I have been the first resort and/or the last resort for many people in
        countless situations, not just the Pyramid of Peace.
        * I don't have much money and also we do have people for whom a small
        amount of income makes a big difference, which is why I rely on
        participants from Eastern Europe and Africa. But also I do give work to
        people like Jeff Buderer ($500), Markus Petz ($1,000), Ben de Vries and
        Jeremy Mason ($500 combined) for work at rates of about $20 an hour,
        which is more than what you're asking for, and frankly, more than what I
        tend to end up with. Furthermore, this is work that we shaped as much
        as possible to advance their long term interests, that can look good on
        their resumes ("consulting, report writing, researching"), and that
        builds skills and let's us practice working together. And this is
        typically time that people would be spending online anyways, and they
        are getting paid for that time.
        * Note that I've set up Minciu Sodas and Worknets so that anybody is
        free to organize and hire our team without paying me anything, and
        certainly, I would gladly do $500 of work for 25 hours on such a project
        in the Public Domain, if it's building our lab. So the fact that I'm
        the one leading our teams has to do with my leadership capability and my
        business efforts, but others in the US, Europe or Africa as well are
        free to surpass me (and please do! it would certainly be easier for me).
        * I encourage all of our participants to write first about their dreams
        in life and then, second, about their current situation including their
        financial needs. Then let's work together, how might we address both?
        That's the "economy of dreams".
        * I do have about $110,000 in debts of which $25,000 (plus accumulated
        interest at 10%) was from Joe Damal's father Ed in 1999, and the rest is
        credit cards. I stay in touch with Ed, he's supportive, and I hope one
        day to pay him back. I make my credit card payments, and I hope to
        continue, but I don't have any urgency to pay them back, nor do they.

        Once there were two brothers. One waited to get married and is still
        waiting. The other got married by accident and had a family. Is one of
        them irresponsible? Does one of them lack "life skills"? Is one of
        them not caring for children? Is one of them not following Jesus's
        advice? Is one of them irresponsible? Can we even judge?

        I used to think that there was such a thing as "real money", as "getting
        a job", as "earning money", as "responsible budgeting". What I've come
        to learn is that I have a Ph.D. in math, but there are no jobs for such
        Ph.D.'s. I have fantastic experience, but nobody would ever hire me
        based on my resume, if they didn't know me. I generally haven't got
        money because I "earned" it, but because I was "at the right place at
        the right time and knew the right people and they had the right
        disposition". And the more money I've gotten, the less I have to show
        for why I did. And the more I've learned about the economy, the more I
        see that it's just a bag full of holes and the "money" gets redefined
        all the time - the stock market can go down by half, the value of a
        business (like mine) can jump up. I've seen people become millionaires
        and almost billionaires, and although they are remarkable people,
        there's not much "real" about it, nor when they're businesses go
        bankrupt or get sold. I've also seen that when people need real help,
        there's not much difference whether I have saved money or can borrow
        money, if they need money bad enough. So do I have more "life skills"
        now than when I started?

        I can teach people a lot about money, and it's not going to help them
        get a job, but it may help them be good people. And they aren't going
        to pay me money for that kind of knowledge.

        I look at my life and I bought the pearl, gave everything away, was true
        in love, turned the other cheek, applied my talents, worked while my
        master was away, loved my enemy, loved my neighbor as myself, and loved
        God. What I'm believing is what's happening. What I'm finding is what
        I'm loving.

        Maybe that's a good start for my "accountability". I look forward to
        writing more about that but, more importantly, about my own life dreams
        and what I'd like to do about them.

        I encourage us to write about our life dreams, about our personal
        situation, and then work together on small projects to address them, and
        through such projects, foster our accountability to ourselves and each
        other.

        Benoit, I know that you are going through very great challenges taking
        care of your wife Debbie and all. Even so, I invite you and all to
        think, what are small projects that we can do, for free or for $100, by
        which we might practice working together, help each other work towards
        our goals, and have a reference point for our accountability.

        Thank you, Benoit, for adding to our reality.

        Andrius

        Andrius Kulikauskas
        Minciu Sodas
        http://www.ms.lt
        ms@...
        +370 699 30003

        Benoit Couture wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Salut everyone,
        >
        > Andrius and I are involved in a conversation that deals with money and
        > its meaning.
        > It is pasted from a thread on Loving God group under the title of
        > "Drugs/Youth and the Church" which began from a personal letter sent
        > to me by Tom Ochuka. It is at:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lovingGod/message/702
        >
        > If you intend to read the whole of these letters, I suggest that you
        > begin at the bottom and make your way up. If you just want a taste of
        > it, read the first 2 pasted letters at the top of the page.
        >
        > Benoit Couture
        > Edmonton, Canada
        > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > Oct 16, 2009
        >
        > Salut Andrius,
        >
        > You wrote:
        > "The phrase "life skills" is I think misleading."
        >
        > The idea is to help those who are marginalized by their incapacity to
        > cope within the local personal-socio-politico-cultural framework
        > of existance and who end up having to be supported by others to live
        > their lives.
        > Take your dad's financing out of your equation and that fits you.
        >
        > You wrote:
        > " I think that teaching such "life skills" for
        > money is bogus. I think it's far removed from Jesus's way."
        >
        > If I knew where to go to get a fish with money in its mouth as Jesus
        > did, I would go and get it.
        >
        > You ask:
        > "But first, have you been able to do it(teaching life skills) for free?"
        >
        > Yes for over thirty years.
        >
        > You go on with:
        > " Are you any good at teaching life skills to yourself or others? (You
        > are so often
        > confessing how bad you are at that.)"
        >
        > The reason I speak of The Faculty of Living is because the best way to
        > teach life skills is to be part of one another's life context shoulder
        > to shoulder. The Holy Spirit is the teacher.
        > The apostle Paul says:
        > Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the
        > power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in
        > infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses,
        > for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
        > 2Cr 12,9-10
        >
        > You go on with:
        > "Benoit, I want to be supportive of you. If you want to teach people
        > life skills for free, then I encourage you and, for example, you are
        > very welcome at the help room to do that, as best you can."
        >
        > Where have you been since April 2005, the time when I began writing at
        > Minciu Sodas?
        > I just dont have the time to fit your business schedgule, but my
        > participation has been to offer leadership, which you keep on saying
        > that you greatly apreciate. Leadership is part of life skills.
        >
        > I could never afford to work for you. You depend on third world wages
        > to distribute your work. One hundred dollars is what I need per
        > day for basic survival in Alberta Canada and yet you get a month's
        > work out of Fred and Sasha for that amount.
        >
        > All the rest of your philosophical questioning regarding money and
        > meaning of words like "nessecity" and so on are nothing but a mask to
        > hide the fact that you are trapped in constant financial
        > deficiencies. Your questioning is your justification to go on
        > investing yourself as you please, supported by other's finances.
        > Until you and Minciu Sodas are debt free, you will go on twisting in
        > the wind, unsettled about the simplicity of meaning, using philosophy
        > to justify yourself. That is why I look forward to the day when I can
        > pay with real money for your services.
        > Regarding philosophy, the apostle Paul says in Col 2, 6-10:
        > As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in
        > Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you
        > have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
        > Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit,
        > according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles
        > of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the
        > fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is
        > the head of all principality and power.
        >
        > You finish with:
        > "I suppose we disagree, but I appreciate your letters, and perhaps we can
        > understand each other."
        >
        > When it comes to survival, nessecity, money and well being, one of
        > us is right and one of us is wrong: as simple as that. But
        > obviously, you can afford to be wrong and not care about it. I
        > can't. You like to hold others accountable to a measure that you
        > refuse for yourself in many areas. I look forward to the day when
        > the Lord heals you from that and from philosophy so that the Faith may
        > be free in you.
        >
        > As a parallel to what I am writing to you here in this
        > letter Andrius, I deeply appreciate Jeff's letter of today
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/globalvillages/message/4198
        >
        > Praying and hoping for your release and for all who need it, from the
        > grip of philosophy and empty deceit.
        >
        > Benoit Couture
        > Edmonton, Canada
        > ----------------------------------------------------------------
        > The above was to answer...
        >
        > Benoit,
        >
        > Thank you for explaining.
        >
        > I looked at your link http://calsca.com <http://calsca.com/> and I
        > understand better what
        > you're talking about. Maybe it's simply semantics. The phrase "life
        > skills" is I think misleading. If they called it "employment skills" or
        > simply "conformity skills" then I wouldn't object. But those aren't
        > "life skills" in any fundamental sense.
        >
        > I suffer a lot from these people who have "employment skills" /
        > "conformity skills".
        >
        > But perhaps you do mean "life skills" as in how to live your life. (For
        > example, that it's blessed to get persecuted for being righteous -
        > that's a life skill, yes?) I think that teaching such "life skills" for
        > money is bogus. I think it's far removed from Jesus's way.
        >
        > But first, have you been able to do it for free? Are you any good at
        > teaching life skills to yourself or others? (You are so often
        > confessing how bad you are at that.) Although I appreciate your
        > influence at our lab. But I don't think it's a focused influence, the
        > kind where you have direct control.
        >
        > Money is like a drug or medicine. It can be a medicine if we take as
        > little as possible. And that's the case when people earn money for work
        > that they don't want to do, that they don't care to do. In such a
        > world, the economy of "chores" is as small as possible, and the rest of
        > life is what we focus on.
        >
        > So maybe you are teaching life skills because you don't want to do it,
        > but there's such a great demand on you that you oblige people... but
        > maybe, it's the other way around - you want to teach life skills, but
        > there isn't anybody who wants you to teach them, even for free... in
        > that case, it would make sense for you to pay them so they would let you
        > teach them.
        >
        > Benoit, I want to be supportive of you. If you want to teach people
        > life skills for free, then I encourage you and, for example, you are
        > very welcome at the help room to do that, as best you can.
        >
        > If you want to earn money helping with all kinds of chores, then that's
        > great, too, and I'm glad to include you. I wish you success in finding
        > any kind of work.
        >
        > I'm just thinking through and sharing my own feelings on this subject.
        >
        > But maybe you are talking about employment skills, which is something
        > else. I can teach somebody how to get a job, but I don't have to care
        > if they do. But if I teach somebody how to live, shouldn't I care how
        > they live? and how can any payment get me to care how they live? and how
        > can anybody even prove that I care or not? unless they stop paying me.
        >
        > Do we use the word "necessity" differently, perhaps? "Life" is not a
        > necessity, is it? It's a gift, isn't it? It's not a calamity if I die,
        > is it? Or if my loved ones do? Although that can be painful. How can
        > money be a necessity? It's an instrument, it's a concern, it's
        > relevant, but ultimately, it's a game within a game. I just think not
        > to keep money distinct from your bigger concerns. It's your bigger
        > concerns, your dream in life, like the Edmonton Reconciliation Centre,
        > that let us know what you really care about and can be part of our lab's
        > "economy of dreams". Your need to make a living is also relevant,
        > although I think secondary and separate.
        >
        > You write that "to care is the application of love in action and
        > truth". How can money get you or me to care? How can money determine
        > whether or not we act on our love? Our love has to be there before the
        > money. And we get paid the same whether or not we love. Indeed, we get
        > paid more if we don't love, because love has us go on tangents.
        >
        > What you do outside the lab is not my concern, except that I care
        > about you.
        >
        > I suppose we disagree, but I appreciate your letters, and perhaps we can
        > understand each other.
        >
        > Andrius
        >
        > Andrius Kulikauskas
        > Minciu Sodas
        > ---------------------------------------------------------
        > The above was to answer...
        >
        >
        > Salut Andrius,
        >
        > You wrote:
        > "Money is an external motivation, not an internal motivation."
        >
        > I do not speak of money as "motivation" but as "necessity."
        > For now, the where, why, what and how I live, money is a nessecity
        > for survival and well being.
        >
        > You also wrote:
        > ""People do need to make a living. But it's a separate question from
        > whether or not they care."
        >
        > Perhaps when you are single and looking after no one else; but this is
        > not so when marriage and children are involved or, like in Janet's
        > case, when your time is taken up looking after someone who cannot look
        > after themselves. To care is the application of love in action and in
        > truth.
        >
        > You finish with:
        > "We don't get paid to care. We get paid to show up. We are people who
        > care and we can get paid to show up. But those are two different things.
        > Am I making sense?
        > This is a good issue to think through in detail."
        >
        > The elimination of occupations where care is not involved are the
        > details we need to rid the world of. This elimination comes, not by
        > going against, but rather, by feeding our time with employing
        > ourselves in the occupation of love and of the care needed for
        > survival and well being.
        > The mature life skill I hope to bring forth will reverse well being
        > from being subjected to survival and will subject survival to well
        > being. This will remove the possibility of money as a motivation,
        > exterior or interior.
        >
        > This feeding of our time is what I proposed to implement with the
        > vision I serve since before you and I ever met, and which I am now
        > attempting to extend with my move towards the Life Skills Coaches
        > Alliance of Canada.
        >
        > In that regard, here is the latest communications I had with the
        > market experts I mentioned previously, who are working with me toward
        > this implementation of renewal in which money becomes limited to serve
        > the nessecities of survival under the authority of well being:
        >
        > So in reply to my last entry to that conversation which is pasted here
        > in our conversation down below,
        >
        > Stewart wrote:
        >
        > Yes, or as a colleague wrote "Teamwork is an individual skill." We must
        > first
        > have capacity before we can engage well with others. Let me know if I
        > can be
        > helpful.
        >
        > Stewart
        >
        > David wrote:
        >
        > I agree with Stewart's encompassing observation. Also, just to add, in my
        > experience, Life Skills practitioners seem to follow very different
        > personal
        > journeys in realising their calling. For example, a former internationaly
        > recognised telecommunications strategist had a hip operation and now
        > coaches
        > others to face up to operations.
        >
        > Regarding AFN work, maybe we can test the waters from our end and report
        > back with any progress.
        >
        > David
        >
        > And I replied this morning with:
        >
        > David,
        >
        > I just want to confirm that we are on the same page, in case I did not
        > understand well what you meant about testing the waters with AFN.
        > (Canada's Aboriginal
        > governing body)
        >
        > Life Skills coaches are already quite involved with the Aboriginal
        > population.
        > The idea of getting on with Life Skills from the bottom up is to beat
        > down a
        > trail for the Faculty of Living that can be used by AFN leaders as
        > well as
        > the French and English leaders in order to learn from the past and to
        > move
        > forward by applying the renewal when, where and how it is needed.
        > This is an all-inclusive project to involve big and small business and
        > all
        > taxpayers, under the umbrella of the cultural core of Canada.
        > Life Skills coaches work I speak of are not into "facing up to a surgical
        > operation". They are into teaching and training to live well in the daily
        > grind of survival, which offers a universal handle to work from,
        > including
        > facing up to surgery and so much more. http://calsca.com/
        >
        > Once solidly positioned within Canada's social policy in the movement
        > from
        > personal to communal, from micro to macro and from local to global
        > through
        > our institutions that include Health-Education-Correction, then we can
        > invite the rest of the Commonwealth, of the Francophony and of the
        > world's
        > Aboriginal peoples to join the path.
        > Who knows, perhaps that much of the UN will take notice as we begin
        > and will
        > join in to help.
        > This is what I meant with:
        >
        > "Economically, I view this project as "Building the Recovery Road from
        > self-destruction to self-control and community self-government".
        >
        > Politically, it provides individuals and cultures with a basis to
        > adapt the
        > meaning of Sovereignty to:
        >
        > "Sovereignty is the ability to make decisions in serene maturity and the
        > capacity to implement these decisions with complete understanding, wisdom
        > and responsibility".
        >
        > All the best in testing the waters with AFN.
        >
        > Benoit Couture
        > Edmonton, Canada
        > -------------------------------------------------
        > The above was to answer...
        >
        > Benoit,
        > Thank you.
        >
        > Whether or not people care inside, they get paid the same. In fact, the
        > person who cares will lose out, money wise, because they put in extra
        > effort.
        >
        > So I think it's misguided to pay people to care. It warps the whole
        > context. Because the caring relationship typically works both ways so
        > it's not fair to say, who cares for who. And often it may be better Not
        > to care or give care (as in education, Not to educate) if there aren't
        > the right conditions for that. But nobody can get paid for not doing
        > things. So money warps the whole situation which is why we have the
        > kind of education, health care, agriculture etc. that we do today.
        >
        > People do need to make a living. But it's a separate question from
        > whether or not they care.
        >
        > Worknets is for a culture where people use their own best judgement.
        > Money is an external motivation, not an internal motivation. So money
        > is not helping us know what people actually care about. So money has to
        > be in parallel to caring, basically separate from it.
        >
        > We don't get paid to care. We get paid to show up. We are people who
        > care and we can get paid to show up. But those are two different things.
        >
        > Am I making sense? This is a good issue to think through in detail.
        >
        > Andrius
        >
        > Andrius Kulikauskas
        > Minciu Sodas
        > -----------------------------------------
        > The above was to answer...
        >
        > Salut Andrius,
        >
        > Their site is:
        > http://calsca.com/
        >
        > The Public Domain place where they meet on yahoo is at:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/calsca-l/?yguid=199727698
        >
        > As I mentioned earlier:
        >
        > "Our intent is to build a media venue to complement the Life Skills
        > process with the model that establishes the Outreach Incentive
        > Process. This process is to move from patient to client to partner."
        >
        > ...which I follow up with:
        >
        > "...I offer a media process. If I get a positive reply, I would then
        > begin talks with Andrius to see if we could work together to develop
        > the media side of the process that I propose."
        >
        > When you say:
        > "One of the basic rules in Minciu Sodas and WorkNets is "money can bring
        > people together, but you can't pay people to care".
        >
        > Are you saying that using money as an instrument of support to care
        > for each other is against Minciu Sodas' basics?
        >
        > For instance, if I were to come to you for that media aspect of the
        > project, it would be with a financial offer for your service and for
        > the teams that would work with you.
        > If we get to an agreement, does that mean that you will NOT care for
        > the work I would need from you because you get paid for it? Of course
        > not!
        >
        > Where I live, health, education and correction are already integrated
        > as vital parts of the economy. Those people are paid by tax payers,
        > so that they can be free to devote themselves to care.
        >
        > Life Skills coaches are people who are trained in various disciplines
        > of the humanities, such as psycologists and social workers. They have
        > been working to develop a successful aproach to heal people from
        > destructive social conditions and kife styles. Billions and billions
        > of dollars are lost by companies each year.
        >
        > Hopefully that in time, the success of the Outreach Incentive
        > Process will scale down the need of such services. This would happen
        > if we can transit enough people, who are in need of life skills,
        > through the incentive I offer with patient-client-partner.
        > By the time that enough patients would have transited and gotten ready
        > for the partnership, then the societal shifts will have moved to
        > accomodate sustainable life styles.
        >
        > Benoit
        > ------------------------------------------------------------
        > The above was to answer...
        >
        > Hi Benoit,
        >
        > Do you have a link to the Life Skills program?
        >
        > One of the basic rules in Minciu Sodas and WorkNets is "money can bring
        > people together, but you can't pay people to care". Often such programs
        > are run as a "paid service", but I don't believe that can lead to us
        > living as one. Instead, I think it encourages an escapism where we pay
        > others so we can hand over our problems to them, rather than take up
        > each other's challenges together.
        >
        > You have quite a vivid life dream and I hope we can work on it and share
        > with all in the Public Domain. There are many ways that you can making
        > a living without selling "life skills" and please let me know and I'm
        > interested to include you in our lab's teams. We can create our own
        > life skills lessons based on all that's available and our own
        > experience. Indeed, I'm interest to create a series of ethical lessons
        > for our worknets culture. Perhaps we might work on that together?
        >
        > Or did I not understand you?
        >
        > Andrius
        >
        > Andrius Kulikauskas
        > Minciu Sodas
        > --------------------------------------------------
        >
        > For the whole conversation since Tom Ochuka's letter, see:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lovingGod/message/702
        >
        > ...may all blessings be with us all...
        > Benoit Couture
        > Alberta, Canada
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > Looking for the perfect gift?* Give the gift of Flickr!*
        > <http://www.flickr.com/gift/>
        >
        >
      • Benoit Couture
        ... From: Benoit Couture Subject: Re: [lovingGod] Re: Accountabilty of those who belong to Christ-Jesus To: lovingGod@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 17, 2009
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          --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Benoit Couture <benoitctr@...> wrote:

          From: Benoit Couture <benoitctr@...>
          Subject: Re: [lovingGod] Re: Accountabilty of those who belong to Christ-Jesus
          To: lovingGod@yahoogroups.com
          Received: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 7:48 AM

           
          Salut Andrius,
           
          I was sure that I knew what I was talking about regarding your dad being your financer.  My memory obviously cheated me.  I also felt (feel) frustrated about how difficult it is to make sense of money in the work of God, even though Jesus is very clear when He says:
           
          "Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?  Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?  Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature? 
          “So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.  Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 
          “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’  For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.  But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble. Mt 6, 25-34 
           
          Thank you for taking the time to correct me with such graceful transparencyy.  
           
          I apologize if I was offensive to you and if need be, please forgive my arrogance. 
           
          You will be glad to know that our conversation about Life Skills has prompted one of our members from Kenya to send me a personal letter this morning.  I just finished replying and if we are led to carry on further, we will bring our development to the Public Domain, from its start.
          It seems that it would be a great contribution to your thought when you wrote about the idea of developing our own Life Skills coaching to be used in the Help Room. 
          Doing so in the Public Domain might contribute greatly to remove the stigma attached with being in need of help and of doing what is needed to get it.
           
          As always,
          ...may all blessings be with us all...
          Benoit Couture
          Edmonton, Canada
           
          Ps:  Being born and raised in Quebec, I always felt a direct rapport with your being US born and when the time was ripe, you moved as a family to your parents homeland in Lithuania.  It gives me a sense of hope that one day, if I ever come to maturity in the Faith, the nation of Quebec will benefit from my exile...Amen. ..
           

          --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Andrius Kulikauskas <ms@...> wrote:

          From: Andrius Kulikauskas <ms@...>
          Subject: [lovingGod] Re: Accountabilty of those who belong to Christ-Jesus
          To: lovinggod@yahoogrou ps.com
          Received: Friday, October 16, 2009, 3:15 PM

          Benoit,

          Thank you for writing about this important topic. I agree that Jeff
          Buderer wrote a profound letter to Global Villages.

          A few corrections and additions to your letter below:

          * My parents do not finance Minciu Sodas. They weren't supportive when I
          started and for a time they wanted me to fail and move on. A few years
          ago my father recovered miraculously from lung cancer (he was supposed
          to die). After that, they have been happy for me as I am.
          * I do receive money from my parents for my birthday, for Christmas, and
          irregularly, just the same as my siblings. (With at least one exception,
          September 2008 I asked and they sent me $2,500.) Their gifts have
          averaged out to perhaps $6,000 per year (and less in the last few
          years). I also can and often do stay rent-free at their office in
          Vilnius, Lithuania.
          * I was born in the US and if I would have stayed there, I could be
          supporting myself by working part-time, as I did from the ages of 21 to
          33. * I studied hard at the best of universities for eleven years,
          culminating in a Ph.D. in mathematics. * I moved to Lithuania in 1997
          because even as a child I was true to my parents' decision to raise me
          as a Lithuanian, and perhaps some day, have a Lithuanian family, and
          miracle of miracles, perhaps even live in Lithuania, if it ever became a
          free country. That's all great, but it wasn't my idea.
          * I do earn money, believe it or not. I earned $17,000 for teaching
          three months in Bosnia. I earned $14,100 for the Knight News Challenge
          prize. * The work that I have given to my team is generally work that I
          could have done all by myself. Greg Wolff dedicated $24,000 for me for
          My Food Story and I could have kept it all. It was my own decision to
          give half to my team. Leon Benjamin offered me the Mornflake research
          work (ultimately $12,000). It was my request that I include my team. I
          stand by my decisions because I think we showed what fantastic work we
          can do together, and the kind of work I'd like us to do. But to do so I
          had to share about half the money, which I think is very generous, more
          than anybody else I know. And then to insist that our work be in the
          Public Domain for all to use freely.
          * I have given work to dozens of people which has been for them
          significant amounts of income, often at crucial times in their life.
          Sometimes, as with Sasha Mrkailo's work for My Food Story (he collected
          1,200 stories, earned $1,200, and assured that our team got the $12,000
          of bonuses for collecting 2,000 stories) it's really made a difference
          in our "deliverables" , but generally I avoid such "piecework" because in
          the big picture it's pointless (who cares now if we collected 1,000 or
          2,000 stories) and against the spirit of our lab. Instead, I have
          invested thousands of dollars in our participants like Sasha and Fred
          for small projects which have nothing to do with me serving clients, but
          everything to do with fleshing out our lab and our potential.
          * I have been the first resort and/or the last resort for many people in
          countless situations, not just the Pyramid of Peace.
          * I don't have much money and also we do have people for whom a small
          amount of income makes a big difference, which is why I rely on
          participants from Eastern Europe and Africa. But also I do give work to
          people like Jeff Buderer ($500), Markus Petz ($1,000), Ben de Vries and
          Jeremy Mason ($500 combined) for work at rates of about $20 an hour,
          which is more than what you're asking for, and frankly, more than what I
          tend to end up with. Furthermore, this is work that we shaped as much as
          possible to advance their long term interests, that can look good on
          their resumes ("consulting, report writing, researching" ), and that
          builds skills and let's us practice working together. And this is
          typically time that people would be spending online anyways, and they
          are getting paid for that time.
          * Note that I've set up Minciu Sodas and Worknets so that anybody is
          free to organize and hire our team without paying me anything, and
          certainly, I would gladly do $500 of work for 25 hours on such a project
          in the Public Domain, if it's building our lab. So the fact that I'm the
          one leading our teams has to do with my leadership capability and my
          business efforts, but others in the US, Europe or Africa as well are
          free to surpass me (and please do! it would certainly be easier for me).
          * I encourage all of our participants to write first about their dreams
          in life and then, second, about their current situation including their
          financial needs. Then let's work together, how might we address both?
          That's the "economy of dreams".
          * I do have about $110,000 in debts of which $25,000 (plus accumulated
          interest at 10%) was from Joe Damal's father Ed in 1999, and the rest is
          credit cards. I stay in touch with Ed, he's supportive, and I hope one
          day to pay him back. I make my credit card payments, and I hope to
          continue, but I don't have any urgency to pay them back, nor do they.

          Once there were two brothers. One waited to get married and is still
          waiting. The other got married by accident and had a family. Is one of
          them irresponsible? Does one of them lack "life skills"? Is one of them
          not caring for children? Is one of them not following Jesus's advice? Is
          one of them irresponsible? Can we even judge?

          I used to think that there was such a thing as "real money", as "getting
          a job", as "earning money", as "responsible budgeting". What I've come
          to learn is that I have a Ph.D. in math, but there are no jobs for such
          Ph.D.'s. I have fantastic experience, but nobody would ever hire me
          based on my resume, if they didn't know me. I generally haven't got
          money because I "earned" it, but because I was "at the right place at
          the right time and knew the right people and they had the right
          disposition" . And the more money I've gotten, the less I have to show
          for why I did. And the more I've learned about the economy, the more I
          see that it's just a bag full of holes and the "money" gets redefined
          all the time - the stock market can go down by half, the value of a
          business (like mine) can jump up. I've seen people become millionaires
          and almost billionaires, and although they are remarkable people,
          there's not much "real" about it, nor when they're businesses go
          bankrupt or get sold. I've also seen that when people need real help,
          there's not much difference whether I have saved money or can borrow
          money, if they need money bad enough. So do I have more "life skills"
          now than when I started?

          I can teach people a lot about money, and it's not going to help them
          get a job, but it may help them be good people. And they aren't going to
          pay me money for that kind of knowledge.

          I look at my life and I bought the pearl, gave everything away, was true
          in love, turned the other cheek, applied my talents, worked while my
          master was away, loved my enemy, loved my neighbor as myself, and loved
          God. What I'm believing is what's happening. What I'm finding is what
          I'm loving.

          Maybe that's a good start for my "accountability" . I look forward to
          writing more about that but, more importantly, about my own life dreams
          and what I'd like to do about them.

          I encourage us to write about our life dreams, about our personal
          situation, and then work together on small projects to address them, and
          through such projects, foster our accountability to ourselves and each
          other.
          Benoit, I know that you are going through very great challenges taking
          care of your wife Debbie and all. Even so, I invite you and all to
          think, what are small projects that we can do, for free or for $100, by
          which we might practice working together, help each other work towards
          our goals, and have a reference point for our accountability.

          Thank you, Benoit, for adding to our reality.

          Andrius

          Andrius Kulikauskas
          Minciu Sodas
          http://www.ms. lt
          ms@...
          +370 699 30003

          Benoit Couture wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Salut everyone,
          >
          > Andrius and I are involved in a conversation that deals with money and
          > its meaning.
          > It is pasted from a thread on Loving God group under the title of
          > "Drugs/Youth and the Church" which began from a personal letter sent
          > to me by Tom Ochuka. It is at:
          > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/lovingGod/ message/702
          >
          > If you intend to read the whole of these letters, I suggest that you
          > begin at the bottom and make your way up. If you just want a taste of
          > it, read the first 2 pasted letters at the top of the page.
          >
          > Benoit Couture
          > Edmonton, Canada
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ----
          >
          > Oct 16, 2009
          >
          > Salut Andrius,
          >
          > You wrote:
          > "The phrase "life skills" is I think misleading."
          >
          > The idea is to help those who are marginalized by their incapacity to
          > cope within the local personal-socio- politico- cultural framework of
          > existance and who end up having to be supported by others to live
          > their lives.
          > Take your dad's financing out of your equation and that fits you.
          > You wrote:
          > " I think that teaching such "life skills" for
          > money is bogus. I think it's far removed from Jesus's way."
          >
          > If I knew where to go to get a fish with money in its mouth as Jesus
          > did, I would go and get it.
          >
          > You ask:
          > "But first, have you been able to do it(teaching life skills) for free?"
          >
          > Yes for over thirty years.
          >
          > You go on with:
          > " Are you any good at teaching life skills to yourself or others? (You
          > are so often
          > confessing how bad you are at that.)"
          >
          > The reason I speak of The Faculty of Living is because the best way to
          > teach life skills is to be part of one another's life context shoulder
          > to shoulder. The Holy Spirit is the teacher.
          > The apostle Paul says:
          > Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the
          > power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in
          > infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses,
          > for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 2Cr 12,9-10
          >
          > You go on with:
          > "Benoit, I want to be supportive of you. If you want to teach people
          > life skills for free, then I encourage you and, for example, you are
          > very welcome at the help room to do that, as best you can."
          >
          > Where have you been since April 2005, the time when I began writing at
          > Minciu Sodas?
          > I just dont have the time to fit your business schedgule, but my
          > participation has been to offer leadership, which you keep on saying
          > that you greatly apreciate. Leadership is part of life skills.
          >
          > I could never afford to work for you. You depend on third world wages
          > to distribute your work. One hundred dollars is what I need per day
          > for basic survival in Alberta Canada and yet you get a month's work
          > out of Fred and Sasha for that amount.
          >
          > All the rest of your philosophical questioning regarding money and
          > meaning of words like "nessecity" and so on are nothing but a mask to
          > hide the fact that you are trapped in constant financial deficiencies.
          > Your questioning is your justification to go on investing yourself as
          > you please, supported by other's finances.
          > Until you and Minciu Sodas are debt free, you will go on twisting in
          > the wind, unsettled about the simplicity of meaning, using philosophy
          > to justify yourself. That is why I look forward to the day when I can
          > pay with real money for your services. Regarding philosophy, the
          > apostle Paul says in Col 2, 6-10:
          > As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
          > rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have
          > been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving. Beware lest anyone
          > cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the
          > tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and
          > not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the
          > Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all
          > principality and power.
          >
          > You finish with:
          > "I suppose we disagree, but I appreciate your letters, and perhaps we can
          > understand each other."
          >
          > When it comes to survival, nessecity, money and well being, one of us
          > is right and one of us is wrong: as simple as that. But obviously, you
          > can afford to be wrong and not care about it. I can't. You like to
          > hold others accountable to a measure that you refuse for yourself in
          > many areas. I look forward to the day when the Lord heals you from
          > that and from philosophy so that the Faith may be free in you.
          > As a parallel to what I am writing to you here in this letter Andrius,
          > I deeply appreciate Jeff's letter of today
          > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/globalvill ages/message/ 4198
          >
          > Praying and hoping for your release and for all who need it, from the
          > grip of philosophy and empty deceit.
          >
          > Benoit Couture
          > Edmonton, Canada
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------
          > The above was to answer...
          >
          > Benoit,
          >
          > Thank you for explaining.
          >
          > I looked at your link http://calsca. com <http://calsca. com/> and I
          > understand better what
          > you're talking about. Maybe it's simply semantics. The phrase "life
          > skills" is I think misleading. If they called it "employment skills" or
          > simply "conformity skills" then I wouldn't object. But those aren't
          > "life skills" in any fundamental sense.
          >
          > I suffer a lot from these people who have "employment skills" /
          > "conformity skills".
          >
          > But perhaps you do mean "life skills" as in how to live your life. (For
          > example, that it's blessed to get persecuted for being righteous -
          > that's a life skill, yes?) I think that teaching such "life skills" for
          > money is bogus. I think it's far removed from Jesus's way.
          >
          > But first, have you been able to do it for free? Are you any good at
          > teaching life skills to yourself or others? (You are so often
          > confessing how bad you are at that.) Although I appreciate your
          > influence at our lab. But I don't think it's a focused influence, the
          > kind where you have direct control.
          >
          > Money is like a drug or medicine. It can be a medicine if we take as
          > little as possible. And that's the case when people earn money for work
          > that they don't want to do, that they don't care to do. In such a
          > world, the economy of "chores" is as small as possible, and the rest of
          > life is what we focus on.
          >
          > So maybe you are teaching life skills because you don't want to do it,
          > but there's such a great demand on you that you oblige people... but
          > maybe, it's the other way around - you want to teach life skills, but
          > there isn't anybody who wants you to teach them, even for free... in
          > that case, it would make sense for you to pay them so they would let you
          > teach them.
          >
          > Benoit, I want to be supportive of you. If you want to teach people
          > life skills for free, then I encourage you and, for example, you are
          > very welcome at the help room to do that, as best you can.
          >
          > If you want to earn money helping with all kinds of chores, then that's
          > great, too, and I'm glad to include you. I wish you success in finding
          > any kind of work.
          >
          > I'm just thinking through and sharing my own feelings on this subject.
          >
          > But maybe you are talking about employment skills, which is something
          > else. I can teach somebody how to get a job, but I don't have to care
          > if they do. But if I teach somebody how to live, shouldn't I care how
          > they live? and how can any payment get me to care how they live? and how
          > can anybody even prove that I care or not? unless they stop paying me.
          >
          > Do we use the word "necessity" differently, perhaps? "Life" is not a
          > necessity, is it? It's a gift, isn't it? It's not a calamity if I die,
          > is it? Or if my loved ones do? Although that can be painful. How can
          > money be a necessity? It's an instrument, it's a concern, it's
          > relevant, but ultimately, it's a game within a game. I just think not
          > to keep money distinct from your bigger concerns. It's your bigger
          > concerns, your dream in life, like the Edmonton Reconciliation Centre,
          > that let us know what you really care about and can be part of our lab's
          > "economy of dreams". Your need to make a living is also relevant,
          > although I think secondary and separate.
          >
          > You write that "to care is the application of love in action and
          > truth". How can money get you or me to care? How can money determine
          > whether or not we act on our love? Our love has to be there before the
          > money. And we get paid the same whether or not we love. Indeed, we get
          > paid more if we don't love, because love has us go on tangents.
          >
          > What you do outside the lab is not my concern, except that I care
          > about you.
          >
          > I suppose we disagree, but I appreciate your letters, and perhaps we can
          > understand each other.
          >
          > Andrius
          >
          > Andrius Kulikauskas
          > Minciu Sodas
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
          > The above was to answer...
          >
          >
          > Salut Andrius,
          >
          > You wrote:
          > "Money is an external motivation, not an internal motivation."
          >
          > I do not speak of money as "motivation" but as "necessity."
          > For now, the where, why, what and how I live, money is a nessecity for
          > survival and well being.
          >
          > You also wrote:
          > ""People do need to make a living. But it's a separate question from
          > whether or not they care."
          >
          > Perhaps when you are single and looking after no one else; but this is
          > not so when marriage and children are involved or, like in Janet's
          > case, when your time is taken up looking after someone who cannot look
          > after themselves. To care is the application of love in action and in
          > truth.
          >
          > You finish with:
          > "We don't get paid to care. We get paid to show up. We are people who
          > care and we can get paid to show up. But those are two different things.
          > Am I making sense?
          > This is a good issue to think through in detail."
          >
          > The elimination of occupations where care is not involved are the
          > details we need to rid the world of. This elimination comes, not by
          > going against, but rather, by feeding our time with employing
          > ourselves in the occupation of love and of the care needed for
          > survival and well being.
          > The mature life skill I hope to bring forth will reverse well being
          > from being subjected to survival and will subject survival to well
          > being. This will remove the possibility of money as a motivation,
          > exterior or interior.
          > This feeding of our time is what I proposed to implement with the
          > vision I serve since before you and I ever met, and which I am now
          > attempting to extend with my move towards the Life Skills Coaches
          > Alliance of Canada.
          >
          > In that regard, here is the latest communications I had with the
          > market experts I mentioned previously, who are working with me toward
          > this implementation of renewal in which money becomes limited to serve
          > the nessecities of survival under the authority of well being:
          >
          > So in reply to my last entry to that conversation which is pasted here
          > in our conversation down below,
          >
          > Stewart wrote:
          >
          > Yes, or as a colleague wrote "Teamwork is an individual skill." We must
          > first
          > have capacity before we can engage well with others. Let me know if I
          > can be
          > helpful.
          >
          > Stewart
          >
          > David wrote:
          >
          > I agree with Stewart's encompassing observation. Also, just to add, in my
          > experience, Life Skills practitioners seem to follow very different
          > personal
          > journeys in realising their calling. For example, a former internationaly
          > recognised telecommunications strategist had a hip operation and now
          > coaches
          > others to face up to operations.
          >
          > Regarding AFN work, maybe we can test the waters from our end and report
          > back with any progress.
          >
          > David
          >
          > And I replied this morning with:
          >
          > David,
          >
          > I just want to confirm that we are on the same page, in case I did not
          > understand well what you meant about testing the waters with AFN.
          > (Canada's Aboriginal
          > governing body)
          >
          > Life Skills coaches are already quite involved with the Aboriginal
          > population.
          > The idea of getting on with Life Skills from the bottom up is to beat
          > down a
          > trail for the Faculty of Living that can be used by AFN leaders as
          > well as
          > the French and English leaders in order to learn from the past and to
          > move
          > forward by applying the renewal when, where and how it is needed.
          > This is an all-inclusive project to involve big and small business and
          > all
          > taxpayers, under the umbrella of the cultural core of Canada.
          > Life Skills coaches work I speak of are not into "facing up to a surgical
          > operation". They are into teaching and training to live well in the daily
          > grind of survival, which offers a universal handle to work from,
          > including
          > facing up to surgery and so much more. http://calsca. com/
          >
          > Once solidly positioned within Canada's social policy in the movement
          > from
          > personal to communal, from micro to macro and from local to global
          > through
          > our institutions that include Health-Education- Correction, then we can
          > invite the rest of the Commonwealth, of the Francophony and of the
          > world's
          > Aboriginal peoples to join the path.
          > Who knows, perhaps that much of the UN will take notice as we begin
          > and will
          > join in to help.
          > This is what I meant with:
          >
          > "Economically, I view this project as "Building the Recovery Road from
          > self-destruction to self-control and community self-government" .
          >
          > Politically, it provides individuals and cultures with a basis to
          > adapt the
          > meaning of Sovereignty to:
          >
          > "Sovereignty is the ability to make decisions in serene maturity and the
          > capacity to implement these decisions with complete understanding, wisdom
          > and responsibility" .
          >
          > All the best in testing the waters with AFN.
          >
          > Benoit Couture
          > Edmonton, Canada
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -
          > The above was to answer...
          >
          > Benoit,
          > Thank you.
          >
          > Whether or not people care inside, they get paid the same. In fact, the
          > person who cares will lose out, money wise, because they put in extra
          > effort.
          >
          > So I think it's misguided to pay people to care. It warps the whole
          > context. Because the caring relationship typically works both ways so
          > it's not fair to say, who cares for who. And often it may be better Not
          > to care or give care (as in education, Not to educate) if there aren't
          > the right conditions for that. But nobody can get paid for not doing
          > things. So money warps the whole situation which is why we have the
          > kind of education, health care, agriculture etc. that we do today.
          >
          > People do need to make a living. But it's a separate question from
          > whether or not they care.
          >
          > Worknets is for a culture where people use their own best judgement.
          > Money is an external motivation, not an internal motivation. So money
          > is not helping us know what people actually care about. So money has to
          > be in parallel to caring, basically separate from it.
          >
          > We don't get paid to care. We get paid to show up. We are people who
          > care and we can get paid to show up. But those are two different things.
          >
          > Am I making sense? This is a good issue to think through in detail.
          >
          > Andrius
          >
          > Andrius Kulikauskas
          > Minciu Sodas
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --
          > The above was to answer...
          >
          > Salut Andrius,
          >
          > Their site is:
          > http://calsca. com/
          >
          > The Public Domain place where they meet on yahoo is at:
          > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/calsca- l/?yguid= 199727698
          >
          > As I mentioned earlier:
          >
          > "Our intent is to build a media venue to complement the Life Skills
          > process with the model that establishes the Outreach Incentive
          > Process. This process is to move from patient to client to partner."
          >
          > ...which I follow up with:
          >
          > "...I offer a media process. If I get a positive reply, I would then
          > begin talks with Andrius to see if we could work together to develop
          > the media side of the process that I propose."
          >
          > When you say:
          > "One of the basic rules in Minciu Sodas and WorkNets is "money can bring
          > people together, but you can't pay people to care".
          > Are you saying that using money as an instrument of support to care
          > for each other is against Minciu Sodas' basics?
          >
          > For instance, if I were to come to you for that media aspect of the
          > project, it would be with a financial offer for your service and for
          > the teams that would work with you. If we get to an agreement, does
          > that mean that you will NOT care for the work I would need from you
          > because you get paid for it? Of course not!
          >
          > Where I live, health, education and correction are already integrated
          > as vital parts of the economy. Those people are paid by tax payers, so
          > that they can be free to devote themselves to care.
          > Life Skills coaches are people who are trained in various disciplines
          > of the humanities, such as psycologists and social workers. They have
          > been working to develop a successful aproach to heal people from
          > destructive social conditions and kife styles. Billions and billions
          > of dollars are lost by companies each year.
          >
          > Hopefully that in time, the success of the Outreach Incentive Process
          > will scale down the need of such services. This would happen if we can
          > transit enough people, who are in need of life skills, through the
          > incentive I offer with patient-client- partner.
          > By the time that enough patients would have transited and gotten ready
          > for the partnership, then the societal shifts will have moved to
          > accomodate sustainable life styles.
          > Benoit
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---
          > The above was to answer...
          >
          > Hi Benoit,
          >
          > Do you have a link to the Life Skills program?
          >
          > One of the basic rules in Minciu Sodas and WorkNets is "money can bring
          > people together, but you can't pay people to care". Often such programs
          > are run as a "paid service", but I don't believe that can lead to us
          > living as one. Instead, I think it encourages an escapism where we pay
          > others so we can hand over our problems to them, rather than take up
          > each other's challenges together.
          >
          > You have quite a vivid life dream and I hope we can work on it and share
          > with all in the Public Domain. There are many ways that you can making
          > a living without selling "life skills" and please let me know and I'm
          > interested to include you in our lab's teams. We can create our own
          > life skills lessons based on all that's available and our own
          > experience. Indeed, I'm interest to create a series of ethical lessons
          > for our worknets culture. Perhaps we might work on that together?
          >
          > Or did I not understand you?
          >
          > Andrius
          >
          > Andrius Kulikauskas
          > Minciu Sodas
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --
          >
          > For the whole conversation since Tom Ochuka's letter, see:
          > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/lovingGod/ message/702
          >
          > ...may all blessings be with us all...
          > Benoit Couture
          > Alberta, Canada
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ------
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          >




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