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Re: [holistichelping] DIY Solar Project/Global Swadeshi/relevance to development of our culture/Fred K.

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  • ACTWID KONGADZEM
    Dear Andrius, Janet, Graham, and all Thanks for all the postings that you have sent out concerning the DIY Solar. Yes, Andrius, we will like to join this
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 5, 2009
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      Dear Andrius, Janet, Graham, and all
      Thanks for all the postings that you have sent out concerning the DIY Solar. Yes, Andrius, we will like to join this project and see how it goes.
       Janet thanks for sharing all you have said. We too have just gone to the site as you did and tried to sign in as Andrius advised but we could not as we continously had messages that our email was already signed in to the Global Swadeshi and we donot know the password too neithe do we also know who has already signed us in  too that we cannot sign in ourselves.
      Sincerely Wendi and members of AK.

      --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Janet Feldman <kaippg@...> wrote:

      From: Janet Feldman <kaippg@...>
      Subject: Re: [holistichelping] DIY Solar Project/Global Swadeshi/relevance to development of our culture/Fred K.
      To: holistichelping@yahoogroups.com, globalvillages@yahoogroups.com, voiceful@yahoogroups.com, socialagriculture@yahoogroups.com, mendenyo@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: "Janet Feldman" <kaippg@...>, "Graham" <DIYSolar@...>
      Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 12:49 PM

      Dear Andrius, Wendi and Graham, Fred, and All,

      The ideas for this project are interesting, and I hope it does come to
      fruition!

      I am concerned about some of the way this project is evolving, in particular
      the implications for the development of our culture--as well as our
      sub-cultures- -and want to share those concerns:

      1) I have been signed up to Global Swadeshi without my knowledge, so that
      when I went there the other day to register, I was told I couldn't use my
      email address, because it was already in use! I do not know the current
      password, as I did not create it myself. I have taken steps to reset it so
      that I can participate. To this moment I have not received an email related
      to resetting my password, however, and I have sent two requests over the
      past 24 hours.

      I will be delighted to be a member of this exciting network! However, I
      would like to have been directly invited to participate (by Andrius, in this
      case), and then to sign up there myself. This is an essential element both
      of self-determination and of control of one's own life and information. It
      should surely be established among us as an important principle. How have I
      been signed up, and by whom?

      2) I see a letter of mine posted there, in which I give support to a joint
      project we might do, and also some ideas about a way to proceed and some
      outcomes that might develop (a manual, for example). I wrote that in the
      context of Holistic Helping and our other forums, not for an entirely
      different setting.

      While it's fine that it was posted at Global Swadeshi, I would like to have
      known it was there, first of all, and secondly, that the original context of
      the conversation be understood to apply to my own forum and members, as well
      as those in other MS forums.

      I want this conversation and work to happen at HH in tandem with
      conversations and work at Global Swadeshi, and at our other forums. It would
      be great--in addition to a number of us participating at Global Swadeshi--if
      Global Swadeshi members would sign up for HH and our other forums, so that
      we might all participate in a DIY Solar project together. I realize there is
      cross-over already, with Vinay and others.

      I want to ensure that this project does not shift away from our forums
      (though it's fine to work in tandem with others!): it is important that we
      receive full information of what is happening abt the project, participate
      in linked and interwoven discussions, and are generally included in a
      central way in any activities.

      Especially given the fact that I am a full-time caregiver, and also have
      other organizations to run, it would be wonderful if--speaking of HH
      specifically- -there are others who can carry a good deal of this
      conversation there, and work on behalf of Holistic Helping (and our other
      related forums). And to engage with a larger group of others (at Global
      Swadeshi and elsewhere) for optimum results for this project.

      That also applies to other members in such situations: how can each of us
      be engaged here, yet at the same time address our other responsibilities?
      And how can an overall "culture" be created and developed, while
      "sub-cultures" are also supported and built?

      3) Since discussions about DIY have been taking place at HH, albeit with not
      as much public posting as would have been conducive to mutual learning, I
      would appreciate being included in postings, thoughts, and plans about this
      project (I mean myself by name, as well as postings to the HH forum).

      From a process point of view, we cannot build a culture based on openness,
      sharing, and development of independent thinkers who are also "leaders", if
      one person alone can determine where, when, and how we work together.
      Consultation, cooperation, and joint decision-making are important for a
      feeling of inclusion, an important underpinning to the development of a
      "culture".

      4) If some of our members have problems accessing a relatively "simple"
      venue like a Yahoogroups, how much more will be the challenges of accessing
      a website and needing to post in threads? And how can more cross-over of
      information and participation be developed between our forums and Worknets?
      I see so much helpful information at Worknets that is not making its way
      into our forums, for example.

      5) Despite the stated goal of "public" sharing and visibility, there are
      some members who do not engage here publicly in an ongoing way, yet they
      benefit by association with us. Generally people are told that if they want
      us to be engaged and caring, they have to be more visible. But this is not
      applied to everyone in the same way.

      If members are not working publicly in some fashion, however rudimentary,
      they are not contributing to the development of our "culture". This does not
      mean that they are not valuable or important, as everyone is as an
      individual. But it does mean that, as a larger whole, we are not benefitting
      from what they can give and share.

      There can and should be a place for "private" conversations, friendships,
      and individual activities both within and outside of our working groups, and
      of course people have times of greater or lesser ability to be involved
      here. But in order for there to be a feeling and fact of "culture" among us,
      there does also need to be a sense of "fairness" fostered--both perceived
      and real--and of standards evenly applied. "Winning by sharing" should
      become our motto!

      On a personal note:

      6) I would appreciate it if Fred Kayiwa--who Andrius had suggested this past
      spring could be my assistant--might now become that assistant. I don't know
      what money arrangement can be made: Fred mistakenly thought that I was
      going to pay him to do so (which he and I discovered in a recent
      conversation) , but I did not offer to do that, as I do not have the funds.

      Since Fred has been mentioned both in Ricardo's recent letter about eBay
      trading, and in the context of DIY Solar, he would be a "perfect" bridge
      person, both as regards communicating to Holistic Helping and the other MS
      forums--including his own--and at Global Swadeshi about these projects, and
      in terms of helping to build a greater sense of inclusion and integration in
      our mutual work, laying some of the foundation for construction of a
      "culture", in feeling and in fact.

      I would also like to work with Dennis, who is a longtime friend, someone who
      came to this setting from ActALIVE (my arts coalition).

      Thanks and blessings to all, Janet

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Andrius Kulikauskas" <ms@...>
      To: <globalvillages@ yahoogroups. com>; "help group"
      <holistichelping@ yahoogroups. com>; <voiceful@yahoogroup s.com>;
      <socialagriculture@ yahoogroups. com>; <mendenyo@yahoogroup s.com>
      Cc: "graham" <diysolar@btinternet .com>
      Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:14 PM
      Subject: [holistichelping] DIY Solar Project with Wendi, Global Swadeshi,
      Mornflake

      > Hi Graham,
      >
      > Thank you for chatting with us today. I've personally invited you to
      > join Vinay Gupta's Global Swadeshi http://www.globalsw adeshi.net and
      > please let me know if you still have trouble joining. I encourage
      > others to join there, too.
      >
      > Sasha is active there. Sasha, please, make a list at
      > http://www.worknets .org/wiki. cgi?GlobalSwades hi of Global Swadeshi
      > participants and their endeavors and their websites and any countries
      > where they are especially active or interested. I also ask anybody who
      > would like a bit of paid work to train with Sasha and help to make this
      > list.
      >
      > As you know, we're helping UK online communities on behalf of Mornflake
      > cereal http://www.mornflak e.com and their online video competition
      > http://www.mornflak ecompetition. com (less than two weeks left).
      >
      > My plan is to send $100 to $200 to Graham Knight from the money Minciu
      > Sodas is earning from Mornflake. Graham will send DIY Solar mobile
      > phone recharging kits to:
      > * Wendi Loshe Bernadette in Cameroon
      > * Fred Kayiwa in Uganda
      > * William Wambura in Tanzania
      > * Dennis Kimambo in Kenya
      > * Samwel Kongere in Kenya
      > and also to people who we learn of through Global Swadeshi, who might be
      > in Afghanistan, Palestine, India and other places around the world.
      >
      > Each person will tell us in advance how much they think they can sell
      > the kit for, and how many they can sell in one month. They will report
      > to us about the people they sell to, preferably, with their permission,
      > giving their name and location and a bit about them and how they use
      > their phone. They will report how much they actually sold each kit for
      > and any expenses they had. They will check in one month to see are the
      > people satisfied. They will keep all of the money they make from
      > selling the DIY Solar kits.
      >
      > We will work on this project at the Global Swadeshi website
      > http://www.globalsw adeshi.net as well as Minciu Sodas working groups and
      > Worknets wiki. The purpose of this project is to work together with
      > others at Global Swadeshi and get to know them and their projects. We
      > will also learn about the opportunities, challenges and abilities of
      > different entrepreneurs in different parts of the world. This will be a
      > lot achieved for a small amount of money.
      >
      > Wendi, Fred, William, Dennis, Samwel, would you like to participate?
      > Who else?
      >
      > Graham, Does this make sense? What do you think?
      >
      > Andrius
      >
      > Andrius Kulikauskas
      > Minciu Sodas
      > http://www.ms. lt
      > ms@...
      > +370 699 30003
      > Vilnius, Lithuania
      >
      > graham wrote:
      >> Hi Andrius,
      >>
      >> I read through the Gupta website but am puzzled as to what you plan to
      >> do with $70.
      >>
      >> I am unable to logon to that site.
      >>
      >> Graham
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------ --------- --------- ------
      >
      > http://www.worknets .org/wiki. cgi?HolisticHelp ing
      >
      > Please note our rule: Each letter sent to the Holistic Helping group
      > enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless it explicitly states otherwise. Thank
      > you! http://www.ethicalp ublicdomain. org
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >

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    • Andrius Kulikauskas
      Janet, Graham, Wendi, Tom, Benoit, Sasha and all, I m very encouraged by your letters at Janet Feldman s working group Holistic Helping. Thank you! Janet, I
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 6, 2009
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        Janet, Graham, Wendi, Tom, Benoit, Sasha and all,

        I'm very encouraged by your letters at Janet Feldman's working group
        Holistic Helping. Thank you!

        Janet, I appreciate your concern throughout this year about our culture
        and subcultures and how we might best work together. I know that you
        are very caring at home and I am glad that you engage us so thoughtfully
        in the time that you do have.

        Thanks to Leon Benjamin and our work for Mornflake cereal
        http://www.mornflake.com I and Minciu Sodas participants have had the
        opportunity in our paid work to engage UK online communities of our
        choice. This is generally and naturally awkward - much like being a
        teenager - but the rewards are great for us and I think for Mornflake
        and other such funders as well. It is the clash of cultures that
        happens as we reach out to others and organize ourselves to do so which
        helps us all to sort out what's truly important for each of us and
        what's not. And then we also build our understanding as to what might be
        universally important, and what is personally important.

        Janet, I agree that we should get people's permission before signing
        them up for an online venue. I didn't sign up you or Wendi or anybody
        else to Global Swadeshi. Nor am I able to. I did check the member
        list, though, and Janet, you are not on it, nor is Graham or Wendi. I
        wrote a post about the problems and I hope Vinay Gupta responds:
        http://www.globalswadeshi.net/forum/topics/global-swadeshi-website

        Janet, Yes, it's important to note the importance of your working group
        Holistic Helping
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/holistichelping/
        for our many productive conversations there including most recently with
        Graham Knight about DIY solar as well as solar energy concentrators as
        Franz Nahrada mentioned. Too often, I take you for granted as well as
        the few others who I can take for granted including Franz or Ricardo.
        I'm glad when you speak up and I can know what you find most helpful and
        relevant.

        Janet, Yes! I'm very glad that Fred Kayiwa might be your online
        assistant, and Dennis Kimambo as well. I sent Fred 200 USD for our
        Mornflake work not so long ago and I think he would agree to do more
        work for me for what I have sent so far. (Although Fred is focused now
        on his youth football team's travel to Norway.) Similarly, I sent 250
        GBP to Dennis Kimambo and he was not able to do much work because of
        poor Internet access. Please let us know what tasks they might help
        with. Sasha can help train them, too, please keep him in the loop. I
        will provide resources for your online assistants, and also for Franz,
        Edward, a bit of help for Markus, and other active leaders, please let
        me know!

        Graham, that's a wonderful contribution that you offer a prize of $100
        in photovoltaic parts for the first location which demonstrates all of
        the steps in a viable solar panel business:
        http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mendenyo/message/2719
        This is a great example of sharing resources. As I wrote, I also have
        money that I can add from our Mornflake project
        for just such projects if we can involve a UK online community. Vinay
        Gupta in London, UK founded Global Swadeshi
        http://www.globalswadeshi.net which would be great. I can fund solar
        panels for people to try out all over the world. However, it's not
        clear if Vinay or others there are interested. Without their interest,
        I have to find another UK online community that would like to get
        involved in such a project. Or I can certainly keep the money for
        myself, which is what I will do unless we work together and find such a
        community. If it works, then we'll have a great example of us sharing
        resources, including Graham, Janet, Vinay, Mornflake, Global Swadeshi,
        Holistic Helping and many more.

        I'm greatly encouraged by Graham's offer because he's acknowledging the
        challenges in his own dream, inviting our help to overcome them and
        sharing resources. I wish that more of us were creative in this way.
        For example, Pamela McLean is in the UK and introduced me to Vinay Gupta
        in London in March, 2009. I would certainly benefit if Pamela linked
        our Mornflake project and took some of her resources (people, money,
        projects) for her current work such as her and John Dada's business
        Dadamac or for the Nigerian Ago-Are ecovillage. Likewise, if Vinay
        Gupta or Marcin Jakubowski encouraged our work with Graham Knight's
        Do-It-Yourself Solar panels as relevant, in whatever way, for Factor E
        Farm or Leashless ideals. I observe a real poverty in our creativity
        in finding ways to acknowledge each other's projects and work together.
        That poverty is more distressing than any material poverty that I know of.

        Janet, my focus with our Mornflake projects has been on finding UK
        online communities we might engage. I have come to Holistic Helping and
        other groups to invite people and resources for such paid work. That
        energy needs to take place in the UK online communities or I can't
        justify sharing my resources. I do need groups such as Holistic Helping
        which might host my work so that I and others might build momentum for
        such projects. (This is why I've set up so many groups at Minciu
        Sodas.) It's fair that the groups such as Holistic Helping benefit as
        well, and also be included and encourage conversations in tandem, as you
        suggest.

        Janet, yes, I posted your letter at Global Swadeshi as part of a long
        thread which Sasha started at my request on May 13, 2009.
        http://www.globalswadeshi.net/forum/topics/mornflake-project I included
        a link back to your original letter "A reply by Janet Feldman at
        Holistic Helping" http://ms.lt/W4369 which shows my effort to link our
        groups (which is the whole point of our Mornflake projects). If Vinay
        or others had replied to any part of your letter, then I may likely have
        shared that back with you at Holistic Helping, using my best judgement.
        Until then, I didn't want to make extra effort to report to you, and
        such a requirement would be counter to our work in the Public Domain,
        the point of which is that we encourage people to use their best
        judgement and we don't burden them otherwise. The more we learn about
        each other's preference (and your letter helps!), the more our judgement
        improves, too.

        Janet, you write: "From a process point of view, we cannot build a
        culture based on openness, sharing, and development of independent
        thinkers who are also "leaders", if one person alone can determine
        where, when, and how we work together. Consultation, cooperation, and
        joint decision-making are important for a feeling of inclusion, an
        important underpinning to the development of a "culture"."

        Janet, if any part of my letters has jarred you, please let me know
        which and I may understand your response better.

        Can a single person create a culture? In my life, my answer is yes. I
        have exhaustively cared for all aspects of my life and ever care for my
        life's culture, especially, for my thinking within which I live. I take
        credit for my life's culture and, although my parents are great, I
        pretty much created my inner life on my own, the decisions that define
        who I am and what I do. "I am my own parent" as I told them. (Which is
        also why I note and absorb the good examples of others, including my
        parents, Jesus and our participants around the world.) My personal
        culture is evident in Minciu Sodas and it is tangible for many people.
        I hope that it might be the same culture (Worknets) as that of other
        such self-cultured people and even that all people be self-cultured
        people.

        I provided resources for Wendi's work and I'm bringing resources to
        support possibly more such work. Those new resources are at my complete
        discretion on behalf of Mornflake. As a single person I decide where,
        when and how to apply them because I'm responsible for that. Graham and
        Wendi and you and others have resources and likewise decide. I try to
        give everybody a chance to be included: Do you want to help? or Do you
        want help? But I don't mind not including those who don't help or don't
        want help. If Vinay or Marcin or Pamela or Graham or Wendi or you or
        others want (or choose or can) or not to work together with me, I hope
        to focus on those who do. In the Mornflake project, this outreach is
        very difficult, mostly because it's so unusual. I'm trying to include
        as many people and leverage as many projects as possible, but
        ultimately, I decide myself what to do with the Mornflake resources
        which include some of my own energy that I am thereby able to devote at
        Holistic Helping and encourage Wendi, Graham, Sasha, you and others.

        Janet, I'm writing from my own perspective, as an individual and also an
        organizer. You clearly want an inclusive culture at Holistic Helping.
        In that regard, sometimes I may be an "insider" and sometimes an
        "outsider". In either case, but especially as an outsider, I think that
        in our overall culture it's important that you speak as the leader of
        your group - it's your group and this makes sense or not for you. Then
        it's a matter of two people (you and I) understanding each other. Then
        I can try to acommodate you, which is important to me. I won't try to
        accomodate a "group mind", though, and I don't want to be part of one.
        Instead, I want to understand better and develop further my own personal
        culture and learn what it shares or not with other people's.

        Janet, thank you for your encouragement that we work publicly, as much
        as possible, so that our principles and deeds and observations are
        transparent and we learn from each other and others might include
        themselves.

        Janet, thank you especially for your letters and your thinking. Thank
        you also to Samwel and Benoit. I enjoyed such conversation with Pamela
        and Franz but wish that all could see as when we write. My hope is that
        we have such exchanges with Marcin and Vinay and others. How can we be
        leaders and reveal a shared culture without such exchanges?

        Andrius

        Andrius Kulikauskas
        Minciu Sodas
        http://www.ms.lt
        ms@...
        +370 699 30003
        Vilnius, Lithuania

        Janet Feldman wrote:
        > Dear Andrius, Wendi and Graham, Fred, and All,
        >
        > The ideas for this project are interesting, and I hope it does come to
        > fruition!
        >
        > I am concerned about some of the way this project is evolving, in particular
        > the implications for the development of our culture--as well as our
        > sub-cultures--and want to share those concerns:
        >
        > 1) I have been signed up to Global Swadeshi without my knowledge, so that
        > when I went there the other day to register, I was told I couldn't use my
        > email address, because it was already in use! I do not know the current
        > password, as I did not create it myself. I have taken steps to reset it so
        > that I can participate. To this moment I have not received an email related
        > to resetting my password, however, and I have sent two requests over the
        > past 24 hours.
        >
        > I will be delighted to be a member of this exciting network! However, I
        > would like to have been directly invited to participate (by Andrius, in this
        > case), and then to sign up there myself. This is an essential element both
        > of self-determination and of control of one's own life and information. It
        > should surely be established among us as an important principle. How have I
        > been signed up, and by whom?
        >
        > 2) I see a letter of mine posted there, in which I give support to a joint
        > project we might do, and also some ideas about a way to proceed and some
        > outcomes that might develop (a manual, for example). I wrote that in the
        > context of Holistic Helping and our other forums, not for an entirely
        > different setting.
        >
        > While it's fine that it was posted at Global Swadeshi, I would like to have
        > known it was there, first of all, and secondly, that the original context of
        > the conversation be understood to apply to my own forum and members, as well
        > as those in other MS forums.
        >
        > I want this conversation and work to happen at HH in tandem with
        > conversations and work at Global Swadeshi, and at our other forums. It would
        > be great--in addition to a number of us participating at Global Swadeshi--if
        > Global Swadeshi members would sign up for HH and our other forums, so that
        > we might all participate in a DIY Solar project together. I realize there is
        > cross-over already, with Vinay and others.
        >
        > I want to ensure that this project does not shift away from our forums
        > (though it's fine to work in tandem with others!): it is important that we
        > receive full information of what is happening abt the project, participate
        > in linked and interwoven discussions, and are generally included in a
        > central way in any activities.
        >
        > Especially given the fact that I am a full-time caregiver, and also have
        > other organizations to run, it would be wonderful if--speaking of HH
        > specifically--there are others who can carry a good deal of this
        > conversation there, and work on behalf of Holistic Helping (and our other
        > related forums). And to engage with a larger group of others (at Global
        > Swadeshi and elsewhere) for optimum results for this project.
        >
        > That also applies to other members in such situations: how can each of us
        > be engaged here, yet at the same time address our other responsibilities?
        > And how can an overall "culture" be created and developed, while
        > "sub-cultures" are also supported and built?
        >
        > 3) Since discussions about DIY have been taking place at HH, albeit with not
        > as much public posting as would have been conducive to mutual learning, I
        > would appreciate being included in postings, thoughts, and plans about this
        > project (I mean myself by name, as well as postings to the HH forum).
        >
        > >From a process point of view, we cannot build a culture based on openness,
        > sharing, and development of independent thinkers who are also "leaders", if
        > one person alone can determine where, when, and how we work together.
        > Consultation, cooperation, and joint decision-making are important for a
        > feeling of inclusion, an important underpinning to the development of a
        > "culture".
        >
        > 4) If some of our members have problems accessing a relatively "simple"
        > venue like a Yahoogroups, how much more will be the challenges of accessing
        > a website and needing to post in threads? And how can more cross-over of
        > information and participation be developed between our forums and Worknets?
        > I see so much helpful information at Worknets that is not making its way
        > into our forums, for example.
        >
        > 5) Despite the stated goal of "public" sharing and visibility, there are
        > some members who do not engage here publicly in an ongoing way, yet they
        > benefit by association with us. Generally people are told that if they want
        > us to be engaged and caring, they have to be more visible. But this is not
        > applied to everyone in the same way.
        >
        > If members are not working publicly in some fashion, however rudimentary,
        > they are not contributing to the development of our "culture". This does not
        > mean that they are not valuable or important, as everyone is as an
        > individual. But it does mean that, as a larger whole, we are not benefitting
        > from what they can give and share.
        >
        > There can and should be a place for "private" conversations, friendships,
        > and individual activities both within and outside of our working groups, and
        > of course people have times of greater or lesser ability to be involved
        > here. But in order for there to be a feeling and fact of "culture" among us,
        > there does also need to be a sense of "fairness" fostered--both perceived
        > and real--and of standards evenly applied. "Winning by sharing" should
        > become our motto!
        >
        > On a personal note:
        >
        > 6) I would appreciate it if Fred Kayiwa--who Andrius had suggested this past
        > spring could be my assistant--might now become that assistant. I don't know
        > what money arrangement can be made: Fred mistakenly thought that I was
        > going to pay him to do so (which he and I discovered in a recent
        > conversation), but I did not offer to do that, as I do not have the funds.
        >
        > Since Fred has been mentioned both in Ricardo's recent letter about eBay
        > trading, and in the context of DIY Solar, he would be a "perfect" bridge
        > person, both as regards communicating to Holistic Helping and the other MS
        > forums--including his own--and at Global Swadeshi about these projects, and
        > in terms of helping to build a greater sense of inclusion and integration in
        > our mutual work, laying some of the foundation for construction of a
        > "culture", in feeling and in fact.
        >
        > I would also like to work with Dennis, who is a longtime friend, someone who
        > came to this setting from ActALIVE (my arts coalition).
        >
        > Thanks and blessings to all, Janet
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Andrius Kulikauskas" <ms@...>
        > To: <globalvillages@yahoogroups.com>; "help group"
        > <holistichelping@yahoogroups.com>; <voiceful@yahoogroups.com>;
        > <socialagriculture@yahoogroups.com>; <mendenyo@yahoogroups.com>
        > Cc: "graham" <diysolar@...>
        > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:14 PM
        > Subject: [holistichelping] DIY Solar Project with Wendi, Global Swadeshi,
        > Mornflake
        >
        >
        >
        >> Hi Graham,
        >>
        >> Thank you for chatting with us today. I've personally invited you to
        >> join Vinay Gupta's Global Swadeshi http://www.globalswadeshi.net and
        >> please let me know if you still have trouble joining. I encourage
        >> others to join there, too.
        >>
        >> Sasha is active there. Sasha, please, make a list at
        >> http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?GlobalSwadeshi of Global Swadeshi
        >> participants and their endeavors and their websites and any countries
        >> where they are especially active or interested. I also ask anybody who
        >> would like a bit of paid work to train with Sasha and help to make this
        >> list.
        >>
        >> As you know, we're helping UK online communities on behalf of Mornflake
        >> cereal http://www.mornflake.com and their online video competition
        >> http://www.mornflakecompetition.com (less than two weeks left).
        >>
        >> My plan is to send $100 to $200 to Graham Knight from the money Minciu
        >> Sodas is earning from Mornflake. Graham will send DIY Solar mobile
        >> phone recharging kits to:
        >> * Wendi Loshe Bernadette in Cameroon
        >> * Fred Kayiwa in Uganda
        >> * William Wambura in Tanzania
        >> * Dennis Kimambo in Kenya
        >> * Samwel Kongere in Kenya
        >> and also to people who we learn of through Global Swadeshi, who might be
        >> in Afghanistan, Palestine, India and other places around the world.
        >>
        >> Each person will tell us in advance how much they think they can sell
        >> the kit for, and how many they can sell in one month. They will report
        >> to us about the people they sell to, preferably, with their permission,
        >> giving their name and location and a bit about them and how they use
        >> their phone. They will report how much they actually sold each kit for
        >> and any expenses they had. They will check in one month to see are the
        >> people satisfied. They will keep all of the money they make from
        >> selling the DIY Solar kits.
        >>
        >> We will work on this project at the Global Swadeshi website
        >> http://www.globalswadeshi.net as well as Minciu Sodas working groups and
        >> Worknets wiki. The purpose of this project is to work together with
        >> others at Global Swadeshi and get to know them and their projects. We
        >> will also learn about the opportunities, challenges and abilities of
        >> different entrepreneurs in different parts of the world. This will be a
        >> lot achieved for a small amount of money.
        >>
        >> Wendi, Fred, William, Dennis, Samwel, would you like to participate?
        >> Who else?
        >>
        >> Graham, Does this make sense? What do you think?
        >>
        >> Andrius
        >>
        >> Andrius Kulikauskas
        >> Minciu Sodas
        >> http://www.ms.lt
        >> ms@...
        >> +370 699 30003
        >> Vilnius, Lithuania
        >>
      • Andrius Kulikauskas
        I resend with a correction: I would certainly benefit if Pamela linked our Mornflake project and took some of OUR resources (people, money, projects) for her
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 6, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          I resend with a correction:
          I would certainly benefit if Pamela linked our Mornflake project and
          took some of OUR resources (people, money, projects) for her current
          work such as her and John Dada's business Dadamac or for the Nigerian
          Ago-Are ecovillage.
          Andrius
          ----------------------

          Janet, Graham, Wendi, Tom, Benoit, Sasha and all,

          I'm very encouraged by your letters at Janet Feldman's working group
          Holistic Helping. Thank you!

          Janet, I appreciate your concern throughout this year about our culture
          and subcultures and how we might best work together. I know that you
          are very caring at home and I am glad that you engage us so thoughtfully
          in the time that you do have.

          Thanks to Leon Benjamin and our work for Mornflake cereal
          http://www.mornflake.com I and Minciu Sodas participants have had the
          opportunity in our paid work to engage UK online communities of our
          choice. This is generally and naturally awkward - much like being a
          teenager - but the rewards are great for us and I think for Mornflake
          and other such funders as well. It is the clash of cultures that
          happens as we reach out to others and organize ourselves to do so which
          helps us all to sort out what's truly important for each of us and
          what's not. And then we also build our understanding as to what might be
          universally important, and what is personally important.

          Janet, I agree that we should get people's permission before signing
          them up for an online venue. I didn't sign up you or Wendi or anybody
          else to Global Swadeshi. Nor am I able to. I did check the member
          list, though, and Janet, you are not on it, nor is Graham or Wendi. I
          wrote a post about the problems and I hope Vinay Gupta responds:
          http://www.globalswadeshi.net/forum/topics/global-swadeshi-website

          Janet, Yes, it's important to note the importance of your working group
          Holistic Helping
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/holistichelping/
          for our many productive conversations there including most recently with
          Graham Knight about DIY solar as well as solar energy concentrators as
          Franz Nahrada mentioned. Too often, I take you for granted as well as
          the few others who I can take for granted including Franz or Ricardo.
          I'm glad when you speak up and I can know what you find most helpful and
          relevant.

          Janet, Yes! I'm very glad that Fred Kayiwa might be your online
          assistant, and Dennis Kimambo as well. I sent Fred 200 USD for our
          Mornflake work not so long ago and I think he would agree to do more
          work for me for what I have sent so far. (Although Fred is focused now
          on his youth football team's travel to Norway.) Similarly, I sent 250
          GBP to Dennis Kimambo and he was not able to do much work because of
          poor Internet access. Please let us know what tasks they might help
          with. Sasha can help train them, too, please keep him in the loop. I
          will provide resources for your online assistants, and also for Franz,
          Edward, a bit of help for Markus, and other active leaders, please let
          me know!

          Graham, that's a wonderful contribution that you offer a prize of $100
          in photovoltaic parts for the first location which demonstrates all of
          the steps in a viable solar panel business:
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mendenyo/message/2719
          This is a great example of sharing resources. As I wrote, I also have
          money that I can add from our Mornflake project
          for just such projects if we can involve a UK online community. Vinay
          Gupta in London, UK founded Global Swadeshi
          http://www.globalswadeshi.net which would be great. I can fund solar
          panels for people to try out all over the world. However, it's not
          clear if Vinay or others there are interested. Without their interest,
          I have to find another UK online community that would like to get
          involved in such a project. Or I can certainly keep the money for
          myself, which is what I will do unless we work together and find such a
          community. If it works, then we'll have a great example of us sharing
          resources, including Graham, Janet, Vinay, Mornflake, Global Swadeshi,
          Holistic Helping and many more.

          I'm greatly encouraged by Graham's offer because he's acknowledging the
          challenges in his own dream, inviting our help to overcome them and
          sharing resources. I wish that more of us were creative in this way.
          For example, Pamela McLean is in the UK and introduced me to Vinay Gupta
          in London in March, 2009. I would certainly benefit if Pamela linked
          our Mornflake project and took some of our resources (people, money,
          projects) for her current work such as her and John Dada's business
          Dadamac or for the Nigerian Ago-Are ecovillage. Likewise, if Vinay
          Gupta or Marcin Jakubowski encouraged our work with Graham Knight's
          Do-It-Yourself Solar panels as relevant, in whatever way, for Factor E
          Farm or Leashless ideals. I observe a real poverty in our creativity
          in finding ways to acknowledge each other's projects and work together.
          That poverty is more distressing than any material poverty that I know of.

          Janet, my focus with our Mornflake projects has been on finding UK
          online communities we might engage. I have come to Holistic Helping and
          other groups to invite people and resources for such paid work. That
          energy needs to take place in the UK online communities or I can't
          justify sharing my resources. I do need groups such as Holistic Helping
          which might host my work so that I and others might build momentum for
          such projects. (This is why I've set up so many groups at Minciu
          Sodas.) It's fair that the groups such as Holistic Helping benefit as
          well, and also be included and encourage conversations in tandem, as you
          suggest.

          Janet, yes, I posted your letter at Global Swadeshi as part of a long
          thread which Sasha started at my request on May 13, 2009.
          http://www.globalswadeshi.net/forum/topics/mornflake-project I included
          a link back to your original letter "A reply by Janet Feldman at
          Holistic Helping" http://ms.lt/W4369 which shows my effort to link our
          groups (which is the whole point of our Mornflake projects). If Vinay
          or others had replied to any part of your letter, then I may likely have
          shared that back with you at Holistic Helping, using my best judgement.
          Until then, I didn't want to make extra effort to report to you, and
          such a requirement would be counter to our work in the Public Domain,
          the point of which is that we encourage people to use their best
          judgement and we don't burden them otherwise. The more we learn about
          each other's preference (and your letter helps!), the more our judgement
          improves, too.

          Janet, you write: "From a process point of view, we cannot build a
          culture based on openness, sharing, and development of independent
          thinkers who are also "leaders", if one person alone can determine
          where, when, and how we work together. Consultation, cooperation, and
          joint decision-making are important for a feeling of inclusion, an
          important underpinning to the development of a "culture"."

          Janet, if any part of my letters has jarred you, please let me know
          which and I may understand your response better.

          Can a single person create a culture? In my life, my answer is yes. I
          have exhaustively cared for all aspects of my life and ever care for my
          life's culture, especially, for my thinking within which I live. I take
          credit for my life's culture and, although my parents are great, I
          pretty much created my inner life on my own, the decisions that define
          who I am and what I do. "I am my own parent" as I told them. (Which is
          also why I note and absorb the good examples of others, including my
          parents, Jesus and our participants around the world.) My personal
          culture is evident in Minciu Sodas and it is tangible for many people.
          I hope that it might be the same culture (Worknets) as that of other
          such self-cultured people and even that all people be self-cultured people.

          I provided resources for Wendi's work and I'm bringing resources to
          support possibly more such work. Those new resources are at my complete
          discretion on behalf of Mornflake. As a single person I decide where,
          when and how to apply them because I'm responsible for that. Graham and
          Wendi and you and others have resources and likewise decide. I try to
          give everybody a chance to be included: Do you want to help? or Do you
          want help? But I don't mind not including those who don't help or don't
          want help. If Vinay or Marcin or Pamela or Graham or Wendi or you or
          others want (or choose or can) or not to work together with me, I hope
          to focus on those who do. In the Mornflake project, this outreach is
          very difficult, mostly because it's so unusual. I'm trying to include
          as many people and leverage as many projects as possible, but
          ultimately, I decide myself what to do with the Mornflake resources
          which include some of my own energy that I am thereby able to devote at
          Holistic Helping and encourage Wendi, Graham, Sasha, you and others.

          Janet, I'm writing from my own perspective, as an individual and also an
          organizer. You clearly want an inclusive culture at Holistic Helping.
          In that regard, sometimes I may be an "insider" and sometimes an
          "outsider". In either case, but especially as an outsider, I think that
          in our overall culture it's important that you speak as the leader of
          your group - it's your group and this makes sense or not for you. Then
          it's a matter of two people (you and I) understanding each other. Then
          I can try to acommodate you, which is important to me. I won't try to
          accomodate a "group mind", though, and I don't want to be part of one.
          Instead, I want to understand better and develop further my own personal
          culture and learn what it shares or not with other people's.

          Janet, thank you for your encouragement that we work publicly, as much
          as possible, so that our principles and deeds and observations are
          transparent and we learn from each other and others might include
          themselves.

          Janet, thank you especially for your letters and your thinking. Thank
          you also to Samwel and Benoit. I enjoyed such conversation with Pamela
          and Franz but wish that all could see as when we write. My hope is that
          we have such exchanges with Marcin and Vinay and others. How can we be
          leaders and reveal a shared culture without such exchanges?

          Andrius

          Andrius Kulikauskas
          Minciu Sodas
          http://www.ms.lt
          ms@...
          +370 699 30003
          Vilnius, Lithuania

          Janet Feldman wrote:
          > Dear Andrius, Wendi and Graham, Fred, and All,
          >
          > The ideas for this project are interesting, and I hope it does come to
          > fruition!
          >
          > I am concerned about some of the way this project is evolving, in
          > particular the implications for the development of our culture--as
          > well as our sub-cultures--and want to share those concerns:
          >
          > 1) I have been signed up to Global Swadeshi without my knowledge, so
          > that when I went there the other day to register, I was told I
          > couldn't use my email address, because it was already in use! I do not
          > know the current password, as I did not create it myself. I have
          > taken steps to reset it so that I can participate. To this moment I
          > have not received an email related to resetting my password, however,
          > and I have sent two requests over the past 24 hours.
          >
          > I will be delighted to be a member of this exciting network! However,
          > I would like to have been directly invited to participate (by Andrius,
          > in this case), and then to sign up there myself. This is an essential
          > element both of self-determination and of control of one's own life
          > and information. It should surely be established among us as an
          > important principle. How have I been signed up, and by whom?
          >
          > 2) I see a letter of mine posted there, in which I give support to a
          > joint project we might do, and also some ideas about a way to proceed
          > and some outcomes that might develop (a manual, for example). I wrote
          > that in the context of Holistic Helping and our other forums, not for
          > an entirely different setting.
          >
          > While it's fine that it was posted at Global Swadeshi, I would like to
          > have known it was there, first of all, and secondly, that the original
          > context of the conversation be understood to apply to my own forum and
          > members, as well as those in other MS forums.
          >
          > I want this conversation and work to happen at HH in tandem with
          > conversations and work at Global Swadeshi, and at our other forums. It
          > would be great--in addition to a number of us participating at Global
          > Swadeshi--if Global Swadeshi members would sign up for HH and our
          > other forums, so that we might all participate in a DIY Solar project
          > together. I realize there is cross-over already, with Vinay and others.
          >
          > I want to ensure that this project does not shift away from our forums
          > (though it's fine to work in tandem with others!): it is important
          > that we receive full information of what is happening abt the project,
          > participate in linked and interwoven discussions, and are generally
          > included in a central way in any activities.
          >
          > Especially given the fact that I am a full-time caregiver, and also
          > have other organizations to run, it would be wonderful if--speaking of
          > HH specifically--there are others who can carry a good deal of this
          > conversation there, and work on behalf of Holistic Helping (and our
          > other related forums). And to engage with a larger group of others (at
          > Global Swadeshi and elsewhere) for optimum results for this project.
          >
          > That also applies to other members in such situations: how can each
          > of us be engaged here, yet at the same time address our other
          > responsibilities? And how can an overall "culture" be created and
          > developed, while "sub-cultures" are also supported and built?
          >
          > 3) Since discussions about DIY have been taking place at HH, albeit
          > with not as much public posting as would have been conducive to mutual
          > learning, I would appreciate being included in postings, thoughts, and
          > plans about this project (I mean myself by name, as well as postings
          > to the HH forum).
          >
          > >From a process point of view, we cannot build a culture based on
          > openness, sharing, and development of independent thinkers who are
          > also "leaders", if one person alone can determine where, when, and how
          > we work together. Consultation, cooperation, and joint decision-making
          > are important for a feeling of inclusion, an important underpinning to
          > the development of a "culture".
          >
          > 4) If some of our members have problems accessing a relatively
          > "simple" venue like a Yahoogroups, how much more will be the
          > challenges of accessing a website and needing to post in threads? And
          > how can more cross-over of information and participation be developed
          > between our forums and Worknets? I see so much helpful information at
          > Worknets that is not making its way into our forums, for example.
          >
          > 5) Despite the stated goal of "public" sharing and visibility, there
          > are some members who do not engage here publicly in an ongoing way,
          > yet they benefit by association with us. Generally people are told
          > that if they want us to be engaged and caring, they have to be more
          > visible. But this is not applied to everyone in the same way.
          >
          > If members are not working publicly in some fashion, however
          > rudimentary, they are not contributing to the development of our
          > "culture". This does not mean that they are not valuable or important,
          > as everyone is as an individual. But it does mean that, as a larger
          > whole, we are not benefitting from what they can give and share.
          >
          > There can and should be a place for "private" conversations,
          > friendships, and individual activities both within and outside of our
          > working groups, and of course people have times of greater or lesser
          > ability to be involved here. But in order for there to be a feeling
          > and fact of "culture" among us, there does also need to be a sense of
          > "fairness" fostered--both perceived and real--and of standards evenly
          > applied. "Winning by sharing" should become our motto!
          >
          > On a personal note:
          >
          > 6) I would appreciate it if Fred Kayiwa--who Andrius had suggested
          > this past spring could be my assistant--might now become that
          > assistant. I don't know what money arrangement can be made: Fred
          > mistakenly thought that I was going to pay him to do so (which he and
          > I discovered in a recent conversation), but I did not offer to do
          > that, as I do not have the funds.
          >
          > Since Fred has been mentioned both in Ricardo's recent letter about
          > eBay trading, and in the context of DIY Solar, he would be a "perfect"
          > bridge person, both as regards communicating to Holistic Helping and
          > the other MS forums--including his own--and at Global Swadeshi about
          > these projects, and in terms of helping to build a greater sense of
          > inclusion and integration in our mutual work, laying some of the
          > foundation for construction of a "culture", in feeling and in fact.
          >
          > I would also like to work with Dennis, who is a longtime friend,
          > someone who came to this setting from ActALIVE (my arts coalition).
          >
          > Thanks and blessings to all, Janet
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrius Kulikauskas" <ms@...>
          > To: <globalvillages@yahoogroups.com>; "help group"
          > <holistichelping@yahoogroups.com>; <voiceful@yahoogroups.com>;
          > <socialagriculture@yahoogroups.com>; <mendenyo@yahoogroups.com>
          > Cc: "graham" <diysolar@...>
          > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:14 PM
          > Subject: [holistichelping] DIY Solar Project with Wendi, Global
          > Swadeshi, Mornflake
          >
          >
          >
          >> Hi Graham,
          >>
          >> Thank you for chatting with us today. I've personally invited you to
          >> join Vinay Gupta's Global Swadeshi http://www.globalswadeshi.net and
          >> please let me know if you still have trouble joining. I encourage
          >> others to join there, too.
          >>
          >> Sasha is active there. Sasha, please, make a list at
          >> http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?GlobalSwadeshi of Global Swadeshi
          >> participants and their endeavors and their websites and any countries
          >> where they are especially active or interested. I also ask anybody who
          >> would like a bit of paid work to train with Sasha and help to make this
          >> list.
          >>
          >> As you know, we're helping UK online communities on behalf of Mornflake
          >> cereal http://www.mornflake.com and their online video competition
          >> http://www.mornflakecompetition.com (less than two weeks left).
          >>
          >> My plan is to send $100 to $200 to Graham Knight from the money Minciu
          >> Sodas is earning from Mornflake. Graham will send DIY Solar mobile
          >> phone recharging kits to:
          >> * Wendi Loshe Bernadette in Cameroon
          >> * Fred Kayiwa in Uganda
          >> * William Wambura in Tanzania
          >> * Dennis Kimambo in Kenya
          >> * Samwel Kongere in Kenya
          >> and also to people who we learn of through Global Swadeshi, who might be
          >> in Afghanistan, Palestine, India and other places around the world.
          >>
          >> Each person will tell us in advance how much they think they can sell
          >> the kit for, and how many they can sell in one month. They will report
          >> to us about the people they sell to, preferably, with their permission,
          >> giving their name and location and a bit about them and how they use
          >> their phone. They will report how much they actually sold each kit for
          >> and any expenses they had. They will check in one month to see are the
          >> people satisfied. They will keep all of the money they make from
          >> selling the DIY Solar kits.
          >>
          >> We will work on this project at the Global Swadeshi website
          >> http://www.globalswadeshi.net as well as Minciu Sodas working groups and
          >> Worknets wiki. The purpose of this project is to work together with
          >> others at Global Swadeshi and get to know them and their projects. We
          >> will also learn about the opportunities, challenges and abilities of
          >> different entrepreneurs in different parts of the world. This will be a
          >> lot achieved for a small amount of money.
          >>
          >> Wendi, Fred, William, Dennis, Samwel, would you like to participate?
          >> Who else?
          >>
          >> Graham, Does this make sense? What do you think?
          >>
          >> Andrius
          >>
          >> Andrius Kulikauskas
          >> Minciu Sodas
          >> http://www.ms.lt
          >> ms@...
          >> +370 699 30003
          >> Vilnius, Lithuania
          >>
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