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Re: [holistichelping] Re: Decision of your NordPlus application/"cultural" issues/Leon-Kerry-Neil

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  • Mark Roest
    Dear Janet, Andrius and All, Last Sunday I spent several hours at the Maker Fair (see Make Magazine s website) and afterward discussing his family of
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 7, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Janet, Andrius and All,

      Last Sunday I spent several hours at the Maker Fair (see Make Magazine's website) and afterward discussing his family of inventions for sustainability, and the associated business opportunities. I thought of you all, and this seems like a good point to introduce it.

      Jon is the head of Kyoto, Free is the Sun, www.kyoto-energy.com. I would like to invite discussion with you all about setting up one or more distributorships (larger scale) and / or dealerships (local level) to retail his product line. The Kyoto Family product group is particularly appropriate for small social ventures created by and around both Independent Thinkers and mutual support groups. This will generate real revenues, and it will also pave the way to creating complex solar businesses -- look at the Butterfly, which generates 800 watts per panel, plus 400 degree Celcius air and 70 degree C water from cooling the panels (it's a concentrating collector, 12 feet long, and tracks the sun on two axes!). That business can create revenues that can be the capital for building the houses he designed, which will sell for $1000 per 100 square foot (9 square meters) module, which can be arranged 4 around a central space, which needs floor and roof to make a 5th module -- 500 square feet of high-tech living space, with eco-utilities, for $5000.

      Please let me know if you would like to participate in planning this social business venture. David Alan Foster, David's employer, and I are also building a solar sales business, Renewables West, which can source and sell globally; see www.renewableswest.com. That is probably the vehicle we will use to work with Jon.

      Jon has a franchising system to make learning and managing relatively easy, but the minimum container-load shipments and Jon's habit of making products that start flat for shipping, mean large-budget purchases -- probably on the order of $50,000 to $150,000. That means we need to, and have the opportunity to, aggregate orders from multiple dealers and distributors, as long as we can cover the financing and get the loads broken down and safely shipped to their destinations. Who has more ideas and resources?

      Regards,

      Mark Roest

      On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Janet Feldman <kaippg@...> wrote:


      Dear Andrius and All,

      Hello and thanks so much for your letters of recent days, including your
      other note to myself, Leon, Kerry (!!!), and Neil. A big welcome, Neil, and
      a HUGE welcome back to Kerry, who I count as a personal friend. I am so
      delighted to know that you might be back among us, and in particular, that
      we might work together with Leon and others on "winning by sharing"!

      My apologies for not sharing much of myself over the past couple years
      (Kerry)...I have been thinking of you, though, and will hope to write a
      catch-up note soon (and respond to Leon's kind note too).

      Andrius, I am in the middle of some catch-up work outdoors this week (after
      finishing the first draft of the "Blogging Positively" guide)--rather
      intense physical labor--so my energy is somewhat too "otherwise engaged" to
      respond to your note about "culture" in an in-depth way right now. I
      appreciate very much your desire for my feedback, and will definitely be
      eager to do that soon!!

      I wanted to say now that the timing of your note about "culture", and the
      posting of this Nordic application response, is very "synchronous" to some
      of the thoughts I have on the topic. We have often discussed, in these
      forums and individually, a (your) focus on the individual, and where
      organizations and groups fit into that focus.

      My view is that organizations and institutions are the Yang to the Yin of
      the individual, by which I mean that some of the one exists in the other,
      and in fact cannot be separated from the other. We all come from others, and
      most of us are lucky to be part of a "family"; through our Yahoo "groups"
      and our joint work together over a number of years, we at the MS Lab are
      becoming a family too.

      Many of us run or are reps of nonprofits, and/or are involved in nonprofit
      work. You have a business, ie a for-profit corporation, which is a legal
      "entity". In these situations, "entrepreneurship" is both an individual and
      a group/entity-related philosophy and activity. There is a minimum of
      "bureaucracy" for most of us. There is a concern for individuals, and also
      families, communities, countries (re their sustainable development),
      regions. And an understanding of how interconnected we all are as a world (a
      concept in itself that includes individuals but is also group-oriented).

      When we discussed this in January, we talked about "culture" and
      "sub-cultures", likening the whole of the MS Lab to a culture, and the
      Yahoogroups--built around individual thinkers (and doers), but with the
      qualities of a group too, ie of people often focusing on a common purpose,
      such as sustainable development--as sub-cultures.

      This is a holistic view: to understand that each group--and each individual
      within each group--has its/their own qualities, values, identities, goals,
      et al--yet there can still be a larger culture, entity, or identity that can
      be forged as well, so that we can work, share, grow, and build with one
      another.

      In a situation like this, some "organizing" is good, and some structure can
      be important, especially for better communication and joint endeavors. We do
      this too at the Lab, so what NordPlus is seeking is not at all different
      from--or contradictory to--what is happening right here among us.

      The "I/we" issue raised is also crucial to our MS-related work, and to the
      development of a "culture" among us. This has been discussed and even argued
      about many times here, most especially last year, during the Pyramid of
      Peace activities. It is something you and I mulled over again in January,
      when we discussed Worknets and its charter, and where ideas about "culture"
      and "sub-cultures" were given concrete form.

      If "we" are ever to be a "culture", a "family", there does need strongly to
      be developed an outlook and working process that is both "ours" and "mine",
      and where there is an inherent linkage between individuals and groups, as
      well as a "horizontal" structure in which all parties/partners are seen and
      treated as inherently "equal", even if some "vertical" (for example, some
      being "leaders" for a particular project) structuring is also needed at
      times.

      Other links between the NordPlus experience and the creation and development
      of an MS culture thus include: equally-involved partners, cooperation, a
      "nonprofit" or a "business" approach.

      I would like to work on this application with you and try for submission
      next year, taking into account some of what NordPlus has said. I think you
      might find that you do not have to change your own values in a wholesale
      way, to come up with something more along the lines they are seeking.

      We can include the "nonprofits" with which many of us are affiliated; we
      can craft a "structure" where there is accountability and responsibility,
      without it being too oppressive or bureaucratic; we can focus on a region,
      while still identifying and working towards more universal applicability; we
      can figure out how "some" money might be made, without having that be the
      main focus; we can create an administrative approach where you can be the
      coordinator, within a larger entity where there is cooperation among
      "equals" (in outlook and certain activities and processes), this being both
      among individuals and also groups/entities.

      I hope this has been a helpful response for now, and that "yours" can also
      be "mine", and also "ours" :))). To me this is at the heart of "winning by
      sharing", and the idea behind Swarmteams, so it's doubly exciting (and,
      again, comes with synchonous timing) that Leon and Kerry will be with us in
      a direct and active way, as they can contribute--individually and
      together--an essential piece (or pieces) to the creation of our cultural
      whole.

      With love and blessings to all, Janet

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Andrius Kulikauskas" <ms@...>
      To: "Benedikta Harris" <bha@...>
      Cc: <earthtreasury@yahoogroups.com>; "help group"
      <holistichelping@yahoogroups.com>; <learnhowtolearn@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:03 AM
      Subject: [holistichelping] Re: Decision of your NordPlus application

      > Benedikta,
      >
      > I appreciate your detailed explanation.
      >
      > It's interesting that your remarks touch on the mechanics of the project
      > rather than the purpose (to create mathematics learning materials for
      > self-education, in the Public Domain, organized around "classic math
      > problems" and illustrated with examples relevant to our changing world.)
      >
      > Yes, it seems that I come from a different set of values. I believe in
      > individuals rather than institutions; organizing around leaders;
      > enterpreneurship rather than bureaucracy; overshooting rather than
      > undershooting; less structure rather than more structure; holistic
      > rather than sectional; universal rather than regional.
      >
      > Yes, I should contact our national agency.
      >
      > I share with my partners and our working groups.
      >
      > Thank you,
      >
      > Andrius
      >
      > Andrius Kulikauskas
      > Minciu Sodas
      > http://www.ms.lt
      > ms@...
      >
      >
      > Benedikta Harris wrote:
      >> Dear Andrius Kulikauskas
      >>
      >> Compared to the other projects received, your project did not receive
      >> such a high score. Your project received a total score of 10.66 whereas
      >> all granted projects have a total score, which is over 12.
      >>
      >> Here are a couple of reasons, which explain your lower score:
      >> -It was not clear from the application that the involved partners and you
      >> as a coordinator had an equal partnership and that it was a partnership
      >> of institutions/organisations and not only of individuals. You as an
      >> individual were clearly described as the main player in the project, but
      >> Nordplus is about cooperation between institutions and not individuals
      >> (you also write "my" proposal and not "our" proposal in your e-mail
      >> beneath).
      >> -The project description does not really explain what you actually want
      >> to achieve with the many activities that you have planned, which made
      >> your project appear too ambitious and not very structured - this is of
      >> course compared to the quality of the project descriptions of the other
      >> applications received.
      >>
      >> Apart from that, the project seemed business orientated and not
      >> non-profit (selling of book). Last but not least the effect on the adult
      >> education sector and the greater benefit for the Nordic-Baltic education
      >> area was not clear. I would like to encourage you to consult with the
      >> Nordplus responsible in the Lithuanian National Agency and see, if there
      >> are possibilities to elaborate your project and apply again next year
      >> (March 1).
      >>
      >> You are of course also always welcome to contact me, if you have further
      >> questions.
      >>
      >> Venlig hilsen/kind regards
      >>
      >> Benedikta Harris
      >> ----------------------------
      >> International rådgiver
      >> CIRIUS
      >> Fiolstræde 44
      >> DK-1171 København K
      >> Tlf: 3395 7000 Dir: 3395 7083
      >> Fax: 3395 7001
      >> Email: bha@...
      >> www.ciriusonline.dk
      >>
      >>
      >> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
      >> Fra: Andrius Kulikauskas [mailto:ms@...]
      >> Sendt: 3. juni 2009 13:57
      >> Til: Benedikta Harris
      >> Emne: Re: Decision of your NordPlus application
      >>
      >> Dear Benedikta Harris,
      >>
      >> Please, do you have more information, why my proposal was not approved?
      >> It seemed to have great relevance to your topic, and also great impact
      >> (learning materials in the Public Domain) for a basic area (math
      >> education). We had a strong team. We would benefit greatly if you might
      >> explain your decision in more detail.
      >>
      >> Thank you!
      >>
      >> Andrius
      >>
      >> Andrius Kulikauskas
      >> Minciu Sodas
      >> http://www.ms.lt
      >> ms@...
      >> +370 699 30003
      >> Vilnius, Lithuania
      >> skype: minciusodas
      >>
      >>
      >> noreply@... wrote:
      >>
      >>> Projekt-ID: AD-2009_1-17674
      >>> Your Nordplus application 'Classic Math Problems for Changing Realities'
      >>> with the Project ID AD-2009_1-17674 in the ARS system has been processed
      >>> with the following result:
      >>> The application has been rejected by the programme committee on the
      >>> following grounds:
      >>> Your application was unfortunately not approved for granting by the
      >>> Nordplus Adult Programme Committee.
      >>>
      >>> General information on the 2009 application round
      >>> 62 applications have been submitted to the Nordplus Adult Learning
      >>> Programme in connection with the last application deadline (March 2nd
      >>> 2009).
      >>> There are 1.207.795 euro to be distributed to Nordplus Adult mobility
      >>> activities, projects and networks in 2009 and we have received
      >>> applications for a total of 2.660.685 euro. Among the applications were
      >>> many high quality and interesting applications and, during the selection
      >>> process, points were given to all applications as to:
      >>> * Relevance (annual priority)
      >>> * Project objectives and content
      >>> * Organisation and implementation capacity
      >>> * Dissemination and utilisation of results.
      >>>
      >>> Moreover, all applications have in line with the rules and regulations
      >>> of the Nordplus Framework Programme and the Nordplus Adult Learning
      >>> Pro-gramme been checked for the following:
      >>> * Application should be within the framework of the Nordplus Framework
      >>> programme/Nordplus Adult Learning Programme.
      >>> * Applications should have a clear description of background,
      >>> activities, objectives and results.
      >>> * The partnership should be relevant in relation to the application.
      >>> * Results and experiences shall be evaluated and spread to others.
      >>>
      >>> You are welcome to keep yourselves updated on the Nordplus Framework
      >>> Programme on www.nordplusonline.org . Be aware that there will be an
      >>> extra deadline for Nordplus Adult preparatory visits on October 15 2009.
      >>>
      >>> In case of questions, please do not hesitate to contact Benedikta Harris
      >>> bha@... or +45 33 95 70 83.
      >>>
      >>> Appeals may be addressed directly to the body that handled the
      >>> application within three weeks after receiving this notification. The
      >>> actual decision cannot be appealed against, but applicants may appeal if
      >>> they believe that an error has been made.
      >>> Thank you for applying to Nordplus.
      >>> Yours sincerely,
      >>> The Nordplus administration system
      >>> This e-mail message and any attachments are confidential and may be
      >>> privileged or otherwise protected by legal rules and for use by the
      >>> addressee only. If the message is received by anyone other than the
      >>> addressee, we kindly ask you to notify the sender by reply e-mail
      >>> immediately and delete it and any attachments from your computer without
      >>> copying it or disclosing its contents to anyone. Whilst all reasonable
      >>> care has been taken to avoid the transmission of viruses, no
      >>> responsibility is accepted in this regard and the recipient should scan
      >>> and carry out such other checks as it considers appropriate.
      >>>
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?HolisticHelping
      >
      > Please note our rule: Each letter sent to the Holistic Helping group
      > enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless it explicitly states otherwise. Thank
      > you! http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >

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      17:53:00


    • Mark Roest
      Hello All! Sorry, I forgot to mention that Jon also set up a carbon credits operation, so the cost of the energy saving and producing hardware can be recovered
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 7, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello All!

        Sorry, I forgot to mention that Jon also set up a carbon credits operation, so the cost of the energy saving and producing hardware can be recovered from selling them to people in Germany, and he also has financing, although I don't know the details yet. In other words, this thing is set up to succeed, and to empower low-income populations to succeed too -- in fact, that is his purpose in doing it in the first place!

        So do you want to make a difference with something that will go global, while empowering holistichelping and your other groups?

        Please let me know, and give me a sense of the scale you think you can operate on, by direct email, as well as posting: MarkLRoest@....

        Regards,

        Mark

        On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mark Roest <marklroest@...> wrote:
        Dear Janet, Andrius and All,

        Last Sunday I spent several hours at the Maker Fair (see Make Magazine's website) and afterward discussing his family of inventions for sustainability, and the associated business opportunities. I thought of you all, and this seems like a good point to introduce it.

        Jon is the head of Kyoto, Free is the Sun, www.kyoto-energy.com. I would like to invite discussion with you all about setting up one or more distributorships (larger scale) and / or dealerships (local level) to retail his product line. The Kyoto Family product group is particularly appropriate for small social ventures created by and around both Independent Thinkers and mutual support groups. This will generate real revenues, and it will also pave the way to creating complex solar businesses -- look at the Butterfly, which generates 800 watts per panel, plus 400 degree Celcius air and 70 degree C water from cooling the panels (it's a concentrating collector, 12 feet long, and tracks the sun on two axes!). That business can create revenues that can be the capital for building the houses he designed, which will sell for $1000 per 100 square foot (9 square meters) module, which can be arranged 4 around a central space, which needs floor and roof to make a 5th module -- 500 square feet of high-tech living space, with eco-utilities, for $5000.

        Please let me know if you would like to participate in planning this social business venture. David Alan Foster, David's employer, and I are also building a solar sales business, Renewables West, which can source and sell globally; see www.renewableswest.com. That is probably the vehicle we will use to work with Jon.

        Jon has a franchising system to make learning and managing relatively easy, but the minimum container-load shipments and Jon's habit of making products that start flat for shipping, mean large-budget purchases -- probably on the order of $50,000 to $150,000. That means we need to, and have the opportunity to, aggregate orders from multiple dealers and distributors, as long as we can cover the financing and get the loads broken down and safely shipped to their destinations. Who has more ideas and resources?

        Regards,

        Mark Roest


        On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Janet Feldman <kaippg@...> wrote:


        Dear Andrius and All,

        Hello and thanks so much for your letters of recent days, including your
        other note to myself, Leon, Kerry (!!!), and Neil. A big welcome, Neil, and
        a HUGE welcome back to Kerry, who I count as a personal friend. I am so
        delighted to know that you might be back among us, and in particular, that
        we might work together with Leon and others on "winning by sharing"!

        My apologies for not sharing much of myself over the past couple years
        (Kerry)...I have been thinking of you, though, and will hope to write a
        catch-up note soon (and respond to Leon's kind note too).

        Andrius, I am in the middle of some catch-up work outdoors this week (after
        finishing the first draft of the "Blogging Positively" guide)--rather
        intense physical labor--so my energy is somewhat too "otherwise engaged" to
        respond to your note about "culture" in an in-depth way right now. I
        appreciate very much your desire for my feedback, and will definitely be
        eager to do that soon!!

        I wanted to say now that the timing of your note about "culture", and the
        posting of this Nordic application response, is very "synchronous" to some
        of the thoughts I have on the topic. We have often discussed, in these
        forums and individually, a (your) focus on the individual, and where
        organizations and groups fit into that focus.

        My view is that organizations and institutions are the Yang to the Yin of
        the individual, by which I mean that some of the one exists in the other,
        and in fact cannot be separated from the other. We all come from others, and
        most of us are lucky to be part of a "family"; through our Yahoo "groups"
        and our joint work together over a number of years, we at the MS Lab are
        becoming a family too.

        Many of us run or are reps of nonprofits, and/or are involved in nonprofit
        work. You have a business, ie a for-profit corporation, which is a legal
        "entity". In these situations, "entrepreneurship" is both an individual and
        a group/entity-related philosophy and activity. There is a minimum of
        "bureaucracy" for most of us. There is a concern for individuals, and also
        families, communities, countries (re their sustainable development),
        regions. And an understanding of how interconnected we all are as a world (a
        concept in itself that includes individuals but is also group-oriented).

        When we discussed this in January, we talked about "culture" and
        "sub-cultures", likening the whole of the MS Lab to a culture, and the
        Yahoogroups--built around individual thinkers (and doers), but with the
        qualities of a group too, ie of people often focusing on a common purpose,
        such as sustainable development--as sub-cultures.

        This is a holistic view: to understand that each group--and each individual
        within each group--has its/their own qualities, values, identities, goals,
        et al--yet there can still be a larger culture, entity, or identity that can
        be forged as well, so that we can work, share, grow, and build with one
        another.

        In a situation like this, some "organizing" is good, and some structure can
        be important, especially for better communication and joint endeavors. We do
        this too at the Lab, so what NordPlus is seeking is not at all different
        from--or contradictory to--what is happening right here among us.

        The "I/we" issue raised is also crucial to our MS-related work, and to the
        development of a "culture" among us. This has been discussed and even argued
        about many times here, most especially last year, during the Pyramid of
        Peace activities. It is something you and I mulled over again in January,
        when we discussed Worknets and its charter, and where ideas about "culture"
        and "sub-cultures" were given concrete form.

        If "we" are ever to be a "culture", a "family", there does need strongly to
        be developed an outlook and working process that is both "ours" and "mine",
        and where there is an inherent linkage between individuals and groups, as
        well as a "horizontal" structure in which all parties/partners are seen and
        treated as inherently "equal", even if some "vertical" (for example, some
        being "leaders" for a particular project) structuring is also needed at
        times.

        Other links between the NordPlus experience and the creation and development
        of an MS culture thus include: equally-involved partners, cooperation, a
        "nonprofit" or a "business" approach.

        I would like to work on this application with you and try for submission
        next year, taking into account some of what NordPlus has said. I think you
        might find that you do not have to change your own values in a wholesale
        way, to come up with something more along the lines they are seeking.

        We can include the "nonprofits" with which many of us are affiliated; we
        can craft a "structure" where there is accountability and responsibility,
        without it being too oppressive or bureaucratic; we can focus on a region,
        while still identifying and working towards more universal applicability; we
        can figure out how "some" money might be made, without having that be the
        main focus; we can create an administrative approach where you can be the
        coordinator, within a larger entity where there is cooperation among
        "equals" (in outlook and certain activities and processes), this being both
        among individuals and also groups/entities.

        I hope this has been a helpful response for now, and that "yours" can also
        be "mine", and also "ours" :))). To me this is at the heart of "winning by
        sharing", and the idea behind Swarmteams, so it's doubly exciting (and,
        again, comes with synchonous timing) that Leon and Kerry will be with us in
        a direct and active way, as they can contribute--individually and
        together--an essential piece (or pieces) to the creation of our cultural
        whole.

        With love and blessings to all, Janet

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Andrius Kulikauskas" <ms@...>
        To: "Benedikta Harris" <bha@...>
        Cc: <earthtreasury@yahoogroups.com>; "help group"
        <holistichelping@yahoogroups.com>; <learnhowtolearn@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:03 AM
        Subject: [holistichelping] Re: Decision of your NordPlus application

        > Benedikta,
        >
        > I appreciate your detailed explanation.
        >
        > It's interesting that your remarks touch on the mechanics of the project
        > rather than the purpose (to create mathematics learning materials for
        > self-education, in the Public Domain, organized around "classic math
        > problems" and illustrated with examples relevant to our changing world.)
        >
        > Yes, it seems that I come from a different set of values. I believe in
        > individuals rather than institutions; organizing around leaders;
        > enterpreneurship rather than bureaucracy; overshooting rather than
        > undershooting; less structure rather than more structure; holistic
        > rather than sectional; universal rather than regional.
        >
        > Yes, I should contact our national agency.
        >
        > I share with my partners and our working groups.
        >
        > Thank you,
        >
        > Andrius
        >
        > Andrius Kulikauskas
        > Minciu Sodas
        > http://www.ms.lt
        > ms@...
        >
        >
        > Benedikta Harris wrote:
        >> Dear Andrius Kulikauskas
        >>
        >> Compared to the other projects received, your project did not receive
        >> such a high score. Your project received a total score of 10.66 whereas
        >> all granted projects have a total score, which is over 12.
        >>
        >> Here are a couple of reasons, which explain your lower score:
        >> -It was not clear from the application that the involved partners and you
        >> as a coordinator had an equal partnership and that it was a partnership
        >> of institutions/organisations and not only of individuals. You as an
        >> individual were clearly described as the main player in the project, but
        >> Nordplus is about cooperation between institutions and not individuals
        >> (you also write "my" proposal and not "our" proposal in your e-mail
        >> beneath).
        >> -The project description does not really explain what you actually want
        >> to achieve with the many activities that you have planned, which made
        >> your project appear too ambitious and not very structured - this is of
        >> course compared to the quality of the project descriptions of the other
        >> applications received.
        >>
        >> Apart from that, the project seemed business orientated and not
        >> non-profit (selling of book). Last but not least the effect on the adult
        >> education sector and the greater benefit for the Nordic-Baltic education
        >> area was not clear. I would like to encourage you to consult with the
        >> Nordplus responsible in the Lithuanian National Agency and see, if there
        >> are possibilities to elaborate your project and apply again next year
        >> (March 1).
        >>
        >> You are of course also always welcome to contact me, if you have further
        >> questions.
        >>
        >> Venlig hilsen/kind regards
        >>
        >> Benedikta Harris
        >> ----------------------------
        >> International rådgiver
        >> CIRIUS
        >> Fiolstræde 44
        >> DK-1171 København K
        >> Tlf: 3395 7000 Dir: 3395 7083
        >> Fax: 3395 7001
        >> Email: bha@...
        >> www.ciriusonline.dk
        >>
        >>
        >> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
        >> Fra: Andrius Kulikauskas [mailto:ms@...]
        >> Sendt: 3. juni 2009 13:57
        >> Til: Benedikta Harris
        >> Emne: Re: Decision of your NordPlus application
        >>
        >> Dear Benedikta Harris,
        >>
        >> Please, do you have more information, why my proposal was not approved?
        >> It seemed to have great relevance to your topic, and also great impact
        >> (learning materials in the Public Domain) for a basic area (math
        >> education). We had a strong team. We would benefit greatly if you might
        >> explain your decision in more detail.
        >>
        >> Thank you!
        >>
        >> Andrius
        >>
        >> Andrius Kulikauskas
        >> Minciu Sodas
        >> http://www.ms.lt
        >> ms@...
        >> +370 699 30003
        >> Vilnius, Lithuania
        >> skype: minciusodas
        >>
        >>
        >> noreply@... wrote:
        >>
        >>> Projekt-ID: AD-2009_1-17674
        >>> Your Nordplus application 'Classic Math Problems for Changing Realities'
        >>> with the Project ID AD-2009_1-17674 in the ARS system has been processed
        >>> with the following result:
        >>> The application has been rejected by the programme committee on the
        >>> following grounds:
        >>> Your application was unfortunately not approved for granting by the
        >>> Nordplus Adult Programme Committee.
        >>>
        >>> General information on the 2009 application round
        >>> 62 applications have been submitted to the Nordplus Adult Learning
        >>> Programme in connection with the last application deadline (March 2nd
        >>> 2009).
        >>> There are 1.207.795 euro to be distributed to Nordplus Adult mobility
        >>> activities, projects and networks in 2009 and we have received
        >>> applications for a total of 2.660.685 euro. Among the applications were
        >>> many high quality and interesting applications and, during the selection
        >>> process, points were given to all applications as to:
        >>> * Relevance (annual priority)
        >>> * Project objectives and content
        >>> * Organisation and implementation capacity
        >>> * Dissemination and utilisation of results.
        >>>
        >>> Moreover, all applications have in line with the rules and regulations
        >>> of the Nordplus Framework Programme and the Nordplus Adult Learning
        >>> Pro-gramme been checked for the following:
        >>> * Application should be within the framework of the Nordplus Framework
        >>> programme/Nordplus Adult Learning Programme.
        >>> * Applications should have a clear description of background,
        >>> activities, objectives and results.
        >>> * The partnership should be relevant in relation to the application.
        >>> * Results and experiences shall be evaluated and spread to others.
        >>>
        >>> You are welcome to keep yourselves updated on the Nordplus Framework
        >>> Programme on www.nordplusonline.org . Be aware that there will be an
        >>> extra deadline for Nordplus Adult preparatory visits on October 15 2009.
        >>>
        >>> In case of questions, please do not hesitate to contact Benedikta Harris
        >>> bha@... or +45 33 95 70 83.
        >>>
        >>> Appeals may be addressed directly to the body that handled the
        >>> application within three weeks after receiving this notification. The
        >>> actual decision cannot be appealed against, but applicants may appeal if
        >>> they believe that an error has been made.
        >>> Thank you for applying to Nordplus.
        >>> Yours sincerely,
        >>> The Nordplus administration system
        >>> This e-mail message and any attachments are confidential and may be
        >>> privileged or otherwise protected by legal rules and for use by the
        >>> addressee only. If the message is received by anyone other than the
        >>> addressee, we kindly ask you to notify the sender by reply e-mail
        >>> immediately and delete it and any attachments from your computer without
        >>> copying it or disclosing its contents to anyone. Whilst all reasonable
        >>> care has been taken to avoid the transmission of viruses, no
        >>> responsibility is accepted in this regard and the recipient should scan
        >>> and carry out such other checks as it considers appropriate.
        >>>
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?HolisticHelping
        >
        > Please note our rule: Each letter sent to the Holistic Helping group
        > enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless it explicitly states otherwise. Thank
        > you! http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >

        ----------------------------------------------------------

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        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        Version: 8.0.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.51/2151 - Release Date: 06/02/09
        17:53:00



      • Mark Roest
        Hello All again: By the way, I realized that some will ask what the relationship of my communication is to the posting: I responded to the phrase, winning by
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 7, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello All again:

          By the way, I realized that some will ask what the relationship of my communication is to the posting: I responded to the phrase, "winning by sharing"!, because that is what I am seeking here, along with the others in the network in the San Francisco Bay area.

          Regards,

          Mark

          On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Mark Roest <marklroest@...> wrote:
          Hello All!

          Sorry, I forgot to mention that Jon also set up a carbon credits operation, so the cost of the energy saving and producing hardware can be recovered from selling them to people in Germany, and he also has financing, although I don't know the details yet. In other words, this thing is set up to succeed, and to empower low-income populations to succeed too -- in fact, that is his purpose in doing it in the first place!

          So do you want to make a difference with something that will go global, while empowering holistichelping and your other groups?

          Please let me know, and give me a sense of the scale you think you can operate on, by direct email, as well as posting: MarkLRoest@....

          Regards,

          Mark


          On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mark Roest <marklroest@...> wrote:
          Dear Janet, Andrius and All,

          Last Sunday I spent several hours at the Maker Fair (see Make Magazine's website) and afterward discussing his family of inventions for sustainability, and the associated business opportunities. I thought of you all, and this seems like a good point to introduce it.

          Jon is the head of Kyoto, Free is the Sun, www.kyoto-energy.com. I would like to invite discussion with you all about setting up one or more distributorships (larger scale) and / or dealerships (local level) to retail his product line. The Kyoto Family product group is particularly appropriate for small social ventures created by and around both Independent Thinkers and mutual support groups. This will generate real revenues, and it will also pave the way to creating complex solar businesses -- look at the Butterfly, which generates 800 watts per panel, plus 400 degree Celcius air and 70 degree C water from cooling the panels (it's a concentrating collector, 12 feet long, and tracks the sun on two axes!). That business can create revenues that can be the capital for building the houses he designed, which will sell for $1000 per 100 square foot (9 square meters) module, which can be arranged 4 around a central space, which needs floor and roof to make a 5th module -- 500 square feet of high-tech living space, with eco-utilities, for $5000.

          Please let me know if you would like to participate in planning this social business venture. David Alan Foster, David's employer, and I are also building a solar sales business, Renewables West, which can source and sell globally; see www.renewableswest.com. That is probably the vehicle we will use to work with Jon.

          Jon has a franchising system to make learning and managing relatively easy, but the minimum container-load shipments and Jon's habit of making products that start flat for shipping, mean large-budget purchases -- probably on the order of $50,000 to $150,000. That means we need to, and have the opportunity to, aggregate orders from multiple dealers and distributors, as long as we can cover the financing and get the loads broken down and safely shipped to their destinations. Who has more ideas and resources?

          Regards,

          Mark Roest


          On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Janet Feldman <kaippg@...> wrote:


          Dear Andrius and All,

          Hello and thanks so much for your letters of recent days, including your
          other note to myself, Leon, Kerry (!!!), and Neil. A big welcome, Neil, and
          a HUGE welcome back to Kerry, who I count as a personal friend. I am so
          delighted to know that you might be back among us, and in particular, that
          we might work together with Leon and others on "winning by sharing"!

          My apologies for not sharing much of myself over the past couple years
          (Kerry)...I have been thinking of you, though, and will hope to write a
          catch-up note soon (and respond to Leon's kind note too).

          Andrius, I am in the middle of some catch-up work outdoors this week (after
          finishing the first draft of the "Blogging Positively" guide)--rather
          intense physical labor--so my energy is somewhat too "otherwise engaged" to
          respond to your note about "culture" in an in-depth way right now. I
          appreciate very much your desire for my feedback, and will definitely be
          eager to do that soon!!

          I wanted to say now that the timing of your note about "culture", and the
          posting of this Nordic application response, is very "synchronous" to some
          of the thoughts I have on the topic. We have often discussed, in these
          forums and individually, a (your) focus on the individual, and where
          organizations and groups fit into that focus.

          My view is that organizations and institutions are the Yang to the Yin of
          the individual, by which I mean that some of the one exists in the other,
          and in fact cannot be separated from the other. We all come from others, and
          most of us are lucky to be part of a "family"; through our Yahoo "groups"
          and our joint work together over a number of years, we at the MS Lab are
          becoming a family too.

          Many of us run or are reps of nonprofits, and/or are involved in nonprofit
          work. You have a business, ie a for-profit corporation, which is a legal
          "entity". In these situations, "entrepreneurship" is both an individual and
          a group/entity-related philosophy and activity. There is a minimum of
          "bureaucracy" for most of us. There is a concern for individuals, and also
          families, communities, countries (re their sustainable development),
          regions. And an understanding of how interconnected we all are as a world (a
          concept in itself that includes individuals but is also group-oriented).

          When we discussed this in January, we talked about "culture" and
          "sub-cultures", likening the whole of the MS Lab to a culture, and the
          Yahoogroups--built around individual thinkers (and doers), but with the
          qualities of a group too, ie of people often focusing on a common purpose,
          such as sustainable development--as sub-cultures.

          This is a holistic view: to understand that each group--and each individual
          within each group--has its/their own qualities, values, identities, goals,
          et al--yet there can still be a larger culture, entity, or identity that can
          be forged as well, so that we can work, share, grow, and build with one
          another.

          In a situation like this, some "organizing" is good, and some structure can
          be important, especially for better communication and joint endeavors. We do
          this too at the Lab, so what NordPlus is seeking is not at all different
          from--or contradictory to--what is happening right here among us.

          The "I/we" issue raised is also crucial to our MS-related work, and to the
          development of a "culture" among us. This has been discussed and even argued
          about many times here, most especially last year, during the Pyramid of
          Peace activities. It is something you and I mulled over again in January,
          when we discussed Worknets and its charter, and where ideas about "culture"
          and "sub-cultures" were given concrete form.

          If "we" are ever to be a "culture", a "family", there does need strongly to
          be developed an outlook and working process that is both "ours" and "mine",
          and where there is an inherent linkage between individuals and groups, as
          well as a "horizontal" structure in which all parties/partners are seen and
          treated as inherently "equal", even if some "vertical" (for example, some
          being "leaders" for a particular project) structuring is also needed at
          times.

          Other links between the NordPlus experience and the creation and development
          of an MS culture thus include: equally-involved partners, cooperation, a
          "nonprofit" or a "business" approach.

          I would like to work on this application with you and try for submission
          next year, taking into account some of what NordPlus has said. I think you
          might find that you do not have to change your own values in a wholesale
          way, to come up with something more along the lines they are seeking.

          We can include the "nonprofits" with which many of us are affiliated; we
          can craft a "structure" where there is accountability and responsibility,
          without it being too oppressive or bureaucratic; we can focus on a region,
          while still identifying and working towards more universal applicability; we
          can figure out how "some" money might be made, without having that be the
          main focus; we can create an administrative approach where you can be the
          coordinator, within a larger entity where there is cooperation among
          "equals" (in outlook and certain activities and processes), this being both
          among individuals and also groups/entities.

          I hope this has been a helpful response for now, and that "yours" can also
          be "mine", and also "ours" :))). To me this is at the heart of "winning by
          sharing", and the idea behind Swarmteams, so it's doubly exciting (and,
          again, comes with synchonous timing) that Leon and Kerry will be with us in
          a direct and active way, as they can contribute--individually and
          together--an essential piece (or pieces) to the creation of our cultural
          whole.

          With love and blessings to all, Janet

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Andrius Kulikauskas" <ms@...>
          To: "Benedikta Harris" <bha@...>
          Cc: <earthtreasury@yahoogroups.com>; "help group"
          <holistichelping@yahoogroups.com>; <learnhowtolearn@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:03 AM
          Subject: [holistichelping] Re: Decision of your NordPlus application

          > Benedikta,
          >
          > I appreciate your detailed explanation.
          >
          > It's interesting that your remarks touch on the mechanics of the project
          > rather than the purpose (to create mathematics learning materials for
          > self-education, in the Public Domain, organized around "classic math
          > problems" and illustrated with examples relevant to our changing world.)
          >
          > Yes, it seems that I come from a different set of values. I believe in
          > individuals rather than institutions; organizing around leaders;
          > enterpreneurship rather than bureaucracy; overshooting rather than
          > undershooting; less structure rather than more structure; holistic
          > rather than sectional; universal rather than regional.
          >
          > Yes, I should contact our national agency.
          >
          > I share with my partners and our working groups.
          >
          > Thank you,
          >
          > Andrius
          >
          > Andrius Kulikauskas
          > Minciu Sodas
          > http://www.ms.lt
          > ms@...
          >
          >
          > Benedikta Harris wrote:
          >> Dear Andrius Kulikauskas
          >>
          >> Compared to the other projects received, your project did not receive
          >> such a high score. Your project received a total score of 10.66 whereas
          >> all granted projects have a total score, which is over 12.
          >>
          >> Here are a couple of reasons, which explain your lower score:
          >> -It was not clear from the application that the involved partners and you
          >> as a coordinator had an equal partnership and that it was a partnership
          >> of institutions/organisations and not only of individuals. You as an
          >> individual were clearly described as the main player in the project, but
          >> Nordplus is about cooperation between institutions and not individuals
          >> (you also write "my" proposal and not "our" proposal in your e-mail
          >> beneath).
          >> -The project description does not really explain what you actually want
          >> to achieve with the many activities that you have planned, which made
          >> your project appear too ambitious and not very structured - this is of
          >> course compared to the quality of the project descriptions of the other
          >> applications received.
          >>
          >> Apart from that, the project seemed business orientated and not
          >> non-profit (selling of book). Last but not least the effect on the adult
          >> education sector and the greater benefit for the Nordic-Baltic education
          >> area was not clear. I would like to encourage you to consult with the
          >> Nordplus responsible in the Lithuanian National Agency and see, if there
          >> are possibilities to elaborate your project and apply again next year
          >> (March 1).
          >>
          >> You are of course also always welcome to contact me, if you have further
          >> questions.
          >>
          >> Venlig hilsen/kind regards
          >>
          >> Benedikta Harris
          >> ----------------------------
          >> International rådgiver
          >> CIRIUS
          >> Fiolstræde 44
          >> DK-1171 København K
          >> Tlf: 3395 7000 Dir: 3395 7083
          >> Fax: 3395 7001
          >> Email: bha@...
          >> www.ciriusonline.dk
          >>
          >>
          >> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
          >> Fra: Andrius Kulikauskas [mailto:ms@...]
          >> Sendt: 3. juni 2009 13:57
          >> Til: Benedikta Harris
          >> Emne: Re: Decision of your NordPlus application
          >>
          >> Dear Benedikta Harris,
          >>
          >> Please, do you have more information, why my proposal was not approved?
          >> It seemed to have great relevance to your topic, and also great impact
          >> (learning materials in the Public Domain) for a basic area (math
          >> education). We had a strong team. We would benefit greatly if you might
          >> explain your decision in more detail.
          >>
          >> Thank you!
          >>
          >> Andrius
          >>
          >> Andrius Kulikauskas
          >> Minciu Sodas
          >> http://www.ms.lt
          >> ms@...
          >> +370 699 30003
          >> Vilnius, Lithuania
          >> skype: minciusodas
          >>
          >>
          >> noreply@... wrote:
          >>
          >>> Projekt-ID: AD-2009_1-17674
          >>> Your Nordplus application 'Classic Math Problems for Changing Realities'
          >>> with the Project ID AD-2009_1-17674 in the ARS system has been processed
          >>> with the following result:
          >>> The application has been rejected by the programme committee on the
          >>> following grounds:
          >>> Your application was unfortunately not approved for granting by the
          >>> Nordplus Adult Programme Committee.
          >>>
          >>> General information on the 2009 application round
          >>> 62 applications have been submitted to the Nordplus Adult Learning
          >>> Programme in connection with the last application deadline (March 2nd
          >>> 2009).
          >>> There are 1.207.795 euro to be distributed to Nordplus Adult mobility
          >>> activities, projects and networks in 2009 and we have received
          >>> applications for a total of 2.660.685 euro. Among the applications were
          >>> many high quality and interesting applications and, during the selection
          >>> process, points were given to all applications as to:
          >>> * Relevance (annual priority)
          >>> * Project objectives and content
          >>> * Organisation and implementation capacity
          >>> * Dissemination and utilisation of results.
          >>>
          >>> Moreover, all applications have in line with the rules and regulations
          >>> of the Nordplus Framework Programme and the Nordplus Adult Learning
          >>> Pro-gramme been checked for the following:
          >>> * Application should be within the framework of the Nordplus Framework
          >>> programme/Nordplus Adult Learning Programme.
          >>> * Applications should have a clear description of background,
          >>> activities, objectives and results.
          >>> * The partnership should be relevant in relation to the application.
          >>> * Results and experiences shall be evaluated and spread to others.
          >>>
          >>> You are welcome to keep yourselves updated on the Nordplus Framework
          >>> Programme on www.nordplusonline.org . Be aware that there will be an
          >>> extra deadline for Nordplus Adult preparatory visits on October 15 2009.
          >>>
          >>> In case of questions, please do not hesitate to contact Benedikta Harris
          >>> bha@... or +45 33 95 70 83.
          >>>
          >>> Appeals may be addressed directly to the body that handled the
          >>> application within three weeks after receiving this notification. The
          >>> actual decision cannot be appealed against, but applicants may appeal if
          >>> they believe that an error has been made.
          >>> Thank you for applying to Nordplus.
          >>> Yours sincerely,
          >>> The Nordplus administration system
          >>> This e-mail message and any attachments are confidential and may be
          >>> privileged or otherwise protected by legal rules and for use by the
          >>> addressee only. If the message is received by anyone other than the
          >>> addressee, we kindly ask you to notify the sender by reply e-mail
          >>> immediately and delete it and any attachments from your computer without
          >>> copying it or disclosing its contents to anyone. Whilst all reasonable
          >>> care has been taken to avoid the transmission of viruses, no
          >>> responsibility is accepted in this regard and the recipient should scan
          >>> and carry out such other checks as it considers appropriate.
          >>>
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?HolisticHelping
          >
          > Please note our rule: Each letter sent to the Holistic Helping group
          > enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless it explicitly states otherwise. Thank
          > you! http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >

          ----------------------------------------------------------

          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          Version: 8.0.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.51/2151 - Release Date: 06/02/09
          17:53:00




        • Sasha
          I am really impressed with the products they have. But its definitely out of my reach. Sasha
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 9, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            I am really impressed with the products they have. But its definitely out of my reach.

            Sasha
            --- In holistichelping@yahoogroups.com, Mark Roest <marklroest@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Janet, Andrius and All,
            >
            > Last Sunday I spent several hours at the Maker Fair (see Make Magazine's
            > website) and afterward discussing his family of inventions for
            > sustainability, and the associated business opportunities. I thought of you
            > all, and this seems like a good point to introduce it.
            >
            > Jon is the head of Kyoto, Free is the Sun, www.kyoto-energy.com. I would
            > like to invite discussion with you all about setting up one or more
            > distributorships (larger scale) and / or dealerships (local level) to retail
            > his product line. The Kyoto Family product group is particularly appropriate
            > for small social ventures created by and around both Independent Thinkers
            > and mutual support groups. This will generate real revenues, and it will
            > also pave the way to creating complex solar businesses -- look at the
            > Butterfly, which generates 800 watts per panel, plus 400 degree Celcius air
            > and 70 degree C water from cooling the panels (it's a concentrating
            > collector, 12 feet long, and tracks the sun on two axes!). That business can
            > create revenues that can be the capital for building the houses he designed,
            > which will sell for $1000 per 100 square foot (9 square meters) module,
            > which can be arranged 4 around a central space, which needs floor and roof
            > to make a 5th module -- 500 square feet of high-tech living space, with
            > eco-utilities, for $5000.
            >
            > Please let me know if you would like to participate in planning this social
            > business venture. David Alan Foster, David's employer, and I are also
            > building a solar sales business, Renewables West, which can source and sell
            > globally; see www.renewableswest.com. That is probably the vehicle we will
            > use to work with Jon.
            >
            > Jon has a franchising system to make learning and managing relatively easy,
            > but the minimum container-load shipments and Jon's habit of making products
            > that start flat for shipping, mean large-budget purchases -- probably on the
            > order of $50,000 to $150,000. That means we need to, and have the
            > opportunity to, aggregate orders from multiple dealers and distributors, as
            > long as we can cover the financing and get the loads broken down and safely
            > shipped to their destinations. Who has more ideas and resources?
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Mark Roest
            >
            > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Janet Feldman <kaippg@...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Dear Andrius and All,
            > >
            > > Hello and thanks so much for your letters of recent days, including your
            > > other note to myself, Leon, Kerry (!!!), and Neil. A big welcome, Neil, and
            > >
            > > a HUGE welcome back to Kerry, who I count as a personal friend. I am so
            > > delighted to know that you might be back among us, and in particular, that
            > > we might work together with Leon and others on "winning by sharing"!
            > >
            > > My apologies for not sharing much of myself over the past couple years
            > > (Kerry)...I have been thinking of you, though, and will hope to write a
            > > catch-up note soon (and respond to Leon's kind note too).
            > >
            > > Andrius, I am in the middle of some catch-up work outdoors this week (after
            > >
            > > finishing the first draft of the "Blogging Positively" guide)--rather
            > > intense physical labor--so my energy is somewhat too "otherwise engaged" to
            > >
            > > respond to your note about "culture" in an in-depth way right now. I
            > > appreciate very much your desire for my feedback, and will definitely be
            > > eager to do that soon!!
            > >
            > > I wanted to say now that the timing of your note about "culture", and the
            > > posting of this Nordic application response, is very "synchronous" to some
            > > of the thoughts I have on the topic. We have often discussed, in these
            > > forums and individually, a (your) focus on the individual, and where
            > > organizations and groups fit into that focus.
            > >
            > > My view is that organizations and institutions are the Yang to the Yin of
            > > the individual, by which I mean that some of the one exists in the other,
            > > and in fact cannot be separated from the other. We all come from others,
            > > and
            > > most of us are lucky to be part of a "family"; through our Yahoo "groups"
            > > and our joint work together over a number of years, we at the MS Lab are
            > > becoming a family too.
            > >
            > > Many of us run or are reps of nonprofits, and/or are involved in nonprofit
            > > work. You have a business, ie a for-profit corporation, which is a legal
            > > "entity". In these situations, "entrepreneurship" is both an individual and
            > >
            > > a group/entity-related philosophy and activity. There is a minimum of
            > > "bureaucracy" for most of us. There is a concern for individuals, and also
            > > families, communities, countries (re their sustainable development),
            > > regions. And an understanding of how interconnected we all are as a world
            > > (a
            > > concept in itself that includes individuals but is also group-oriented).
            > >
            > > When we discussed this in January, we talked about "culture" and
            > > "sub-cultures", likening the whole of the MS Lab to a culture, and the
            > > Yahoogroups--built around individual thinkers (and doers), but with the
            > > qualities of a group too, ie of people often focusing on a common purpose,
            > > such as sustainable development--as sub-cultures.
            > >
            > > This is a holistic view: to understand that each group--and each individual
            > >
            > > within each group--has its/their own qualities, values, identities, goals,
            > > et al--yet there can still be a larger culture, entity, or identity that
            > > can
            > > be forged as well, so that we can work, share, grow, and build with one
            > > another.
            > >
            > > In a situation like this, some "organizing" is good, and some structure can
            > >
            > > be important, especially for better communication and joint endeavors. We
            > > do
            > > this too at the Lab, so what NordPlus is seeking is not at all different
            > > from--or contradictory to--what is happening right here among us.
            > >
            > > The "I/we" issue raised is also crucial to our MS-related work, and to the
            > > development of a "culture" among us. This has been discussed and even
            > > argued
            > > about many times here, most especially last year, during the Pyramid of
            > > Peace activities. It is something you and I mulled over again in January,
            > > when we discussed Worknets and its charter, and where ideas about "culture"
            > >
            > > and "sub-cultures" were given concrete form.
            > >
            > > If "we" are ever to be a "culture", a "family", there does need strongly to
            > >
            > > be developed an outlook and working process that is both "ours" and "mine",
            > >
            > > and where there is an inherent linkage between individuals and groups, as
            > > well as a "horizontal" structure in which all parties/partners are seen and
            > >
            > > treated as inherently "equal", even if some "vertical" (for example, some
            > > being "leaders" for a particular project) structuring is also needed at
            > > times.
            > >
            > > Other links between the NordPlus experience and the creation and
            > > development
            > > of an MS culture thus include: equally-involved partners, cooperation, a
            > > "nonprofit" or a "business" approach.
            > >
            > > I would like to work on this application with you and try for submission
            > > next year, taking into account some of what NordPlus has said. I think you
            > > might find that you do not have to change your own values in a wholesale
            > > way, to come up with something more along the lines they are seeking.
            > >
            > > We can include the "nonprofits" with which many of us are affiliated; we
            > > can craft a "structure" where there is accountability and responsibility,
            > > without it being too oppressive or bureaucratic; we can focus on a region,
            > > while still identifying and working towards more universal applicability;
            > > we
            > > can figure out how "some" money might be made, without having that be the
            > > main focus; we can create an administrative approach where you can be the
            > > coordinator, within a larger entity where there is cooperation among
            > > "equals" (in outlook and certain activities and processes), this being both
            > >
            > > among individuals and also groups/entities.
            > >
            > > I hope this has been a helpful response for now, and that "yours" can also
            > > be "mine", and also "ours" :))). To me this is at the heart of "winning by
            > > sharing", and the idea behind Swarmteams, so it's doubly exciting (and,
            > > again, comes with synchonous timing) that Leon and Kerry will be with us in
            > >
            > > a direct and active way, as they can contribute--individually and
            > > together--an essential piece (or pieces) to the creation of our cultural
            > > whole.
            > >
            > > With love and blessings to all, Janet
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Andrius Kulikauskas" <ms@... <ms%40ms.lt>>
            > > To: "Benedikta Harris" <bha@... <bha%40CiriusMail.dk>>
            > > Cc: <earthtreasury@yahoogroups.com <earthtreasury%40yahoogroups.com>>;
            > > "help group"
            > > <holistichelping@yahoogroups.com <holistichelping%40yahoogroups.com>>; <
            > > learnhowtolearn@yahoogroups.com <learnhowtolearn%40yahoogroups.com>>
            > > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:03 AM
            > > Subject: [holistichelping] Re: Decision of your NordPlus application
            > >
            > > > Benedikta,
            > > >
            > > > I appreciate your detailed explanation.
            > > >
            > > > It's interesting that your remarks touch on the mechanics of the project
            > > > rather than the purpose (to create mathematics learning materials for
            > > > self-education, in the Public Domain, organized around "classic math
            > > > problems" and illustrated with examples relevant to our changing world.)
            > > >
            > > > Yes, it seems that I come from a different set of values. I believe in
            > > > individuals rather than institutions; organizing around leaders;
            > > > enterpreneurship rather than bureaucracy; overshooting rather than
            > > > undershooting; less structure rather than more structure; holistic
            > > > rather than sectional; universal rather than regional.
            > > >
            > > > Yes, I should contact our national agency.
            > > >
            > > > I share with my partners and our working groups.
            > > >
            > > > Thank you,
            > > >
            > > > Andrius
            > > >
            > > > Andrius Kulikauskas
            > > > Minciu Sodas
            > > > http://www.ms.lt
            > > > ms@... <ms%40ms.lt>
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Benedikta Harris wrote:
            > > >> Dear Andrius Kulikauskas
            > > >>
            > > >> Compared to the other projects received, your project did not receive
            > > >> such a high score. Your project received a total score of 10.66 whereas
            > > >> all granted projects have a total score, which is over 12.
            > > >>
            > > >> Here are a couple of reasons, which explain your lower score:
            > > >> -It was not clear from the application that the involved partners and
            > > you
            > > >> as a coordinator had an equal partnership and that it was a partnership
            > > >> of institutions/organisations and not only of individuals. You as an
            > > >> individual were clearly described as the main player in the project, but
            > >
            > > >> Nordplus is about cooperation between institutions and not individuals
            > > >> (you also write "my" proposal and not "our" proposal in your e-mail
            > > >> beneath).
            > > >> -The project description does not really explain what you actually want
            > > >> to achieve with the many activities that you have planned, which made
            > > >> your project appear too ambitious and not very structured - this is of
            > > >> course compared to the quality of the project descriptions of the other
            > > >> applications received.
            > > >>
            > > >> Apart from that, the project seemed business orientated and not
            > > >> non-profit (selling of book). Last but not least the effect on the adult
            > >
            > > >> education sector and the greater benefit for the Nordic-Baltic education
            > >
            > > >> area was not clear. I would like to encourage you to consult with the
            > > >> Nordplus responsible in the Lithuanian National Agency and see, if there
            > >
            > > >> are possibilities to elaborate your project and apply again next year
            > > >> (March 1).
            > > >>
            > > >> You are of course also always welcome to contact me, if you have further
            > >
            > > >> questions.
            > > >>
            > > >> Venlig hilsen/kind regards
            > > >>
            > > >> Benedikta Harris
            > > >> ----------------------------
            > > >> International rådgiver
            > > >> CIRIUS
            > > >> Fiolstræde 44
            > > >> DK-1171 København K
            > > >> Tlf: 3395 7000 Dir: 3395 7083
            > > >> Fax: 3395 7001
            > > >> Email: bha@... <bha%40ciriusmail.dk>
            > > >> www.ciriusonline.dk
            > > >>
            > > >>
            > > >> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
            > > >> Fra: Andrius Kulikauskas [mailto:ms@... <ms%40ms.lt>]
            > > >> Sendt: 3. juni 2009 13:57
            > > >> Til: Benedikta Harris
            > > >> Emne: Re: Decision of your NordPlus application
            > > >>
            > > >> Dear Benedikta Harris,
            > > >>
            > > >> Please, do you have more information, why my proposal was not approved?
            > > >> It seemed to have great relevance to your topic, and also great impact
            > > >> (learning materials in the Public Domain) for a basic area (math
            > > >> education). We had a strong team. We would benefit greatly if you might
            > > >> explain your decision in more detail.
            > > >>
            > > >> Thank you!
            > > >>
            > > >> Andrius
            > > >>
            > > >> Andrius Kulikauskas
            > > >> Minciu Sodas
            > > >> http://www.ms.lt
            > > >> ms@... <ms%40ms.lt>
            > > >> +370 699 30003
            > > >> Vilnius, Lithuania
            > > >> skype: minciusodas
            > > >>
            > > >>
            > > >> noreply@... <noreply%40ars.norden.org> wrote:
            > > >>
            > > >>> Projekt-ID: AD-2009_1-17674
            > > >>> Your Nordplus application 'Classic Math Problems for Changing
            > > Realities'
            > > >>> with the Project ID AD-2009_1-17674 in the ARS system has been
            > > processed
            > > >>> with the following result:
            > > >>> The application has been rejected by the programme committee on the
            > > >>> following grounds:
            > > >>> Your application was unfortunately not approved for granting by the
            > > >>> Nordplus Adult Programme Committee.
            > > >>>
            > > >>> General information on the 2009 application round
            > > >>> 62 applications have been submitted to the Nordplus Adult Learning
            > > >>> Programme in connection with the last application deadline (March 2nd
            > > >>> 2009).
            > > >>> There are 1.207.795 euro to be distributed to Nordplus Adult mobility
            > > >>> activities, projects and networks in 2009 and we have received
            > > >>> applications for a total of 2.660.685 euro. Among the applications were
            > >
            > > >>> many high quality and interesting applications and, during the
            > > selection
            > > >>> process, points were given to all applications as to:
            > > >>> * Relevance (annual priority)
            > > >>> * Project objectives and content
            > > >>> * Organisation and implementation capacity
            > > >>> * Dissemination and utilisation of results.
            > > >>>
            > > >>> Moreover, all applications have in line with the rules and regulations
            > > >>> of the Nordplus Framework Programme and the Nordplus Adult Learning
            > > >>> Pro-gramme been checked for the following:
            > > >>> * Application should be within the framework of the Nordplus Framework
            > > >>> programme/Nordplus Adult Learning Programme.
            > > >>> * Applications should have a clear description of background,
            > > >>> activities, objectives and results.
            > > >>> * The partnership should be relevant in relation to the application.
            > > >>> * Results and experiences shall be evaluated and spread to others.
            > > >>>
            > > >>> You are welcome to keep yourselves updated on the Nordplus Framework
            > > >>> Programme on www.nordplusonline.org . Be aware that there will be an
            > > >>> extra deadline for Nordplus Adult preparatory visits on October 15
            > > 2009.
            > > >>>
            > > >>> In case of questions, please do not hesitate to contact Benedikta
            > > Harris
            > > >>> bha@... <bha%40ciriusmail.dk> or +45 33 95 70 83.
            > > >>>
            > > >>> Appeals may be addressed directly to the body that handled the
            > > >>> application within three weeks after receiving this notification. The
            > > >>> actual decision cannot be appealed against, but applicants may appeal
            > > if
            > > >>> they believe that an error has been made.
            > > >>> Thank you for applying to Nordplus.
            > > >>> Yours sincerely,
            > > >>> The Nordplus administration system
            > > >>> This e-mail message and any attachments are confidential and may be
            > > >>> privileged or otherwise protected by legal rules and for use by the
            > > >>> addressee only. If the message is received by anyone other than the
            > > >>> addressee, we kindly ask you to notify the sender by reply e-mail
            > > >>> immediately and delete it and any attachments from your computer
            > > without
            > > >>> copying it or disclosing its contents to anyone. Whilst all reasonable
            > > >>> care has been taken to avoid the transmission of viruses, no
            > > >>> responsibility is accepted in this regard and the recipient should scan
            > >
            > > >>> and carry out such other checks as it considers appropriate.
            > > >>>
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------------------------------
            > > >
            > > > http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?HolisticHelping
            > > >
            > > > Please note our rule: Each letter sent to the Holistic Helping group
            > > > enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless it explicitly states otherwise. Thank
            > > > you! http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > ----------------------------------------------------------
            > >
            > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            > > Version: 8.0.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.51/2151 - Release Date: 06/02/09
            > > 17:53:00
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Andrius Kulikauskas
            Mark, Thank you for inviting us to work with your business http://www.renewableswest.com I share with more groups so that we might give serious thought.
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 10, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Mark, Thank you for inviting us to work with your business
              http://www.renewableswest.com I share with more groups so that we might
              give serious thought. Please keep us posted. Your Solar Rover is
              relevant for Ricardo, Pamela McLean's and Folabi Sunday's discussion of
              how to power an IT centre in rural Nigeria. I have created a wiki page:
              http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?RenewablesWest
              and through that page's metadata I included Renewables West in our Shop
              With Us network http://www.shopwithus.org
              Thank you to Leon Benjamin for his idea and phrase "winning by sharing"
              http://www.winningbysharing.net
              Andrius Kulikauskas, Minciu Sodas, http://www.ms.lt, ms@...

              Mark Roest wrote:
              >
              > On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mark Roest <marklroest@...
              > <mailto:marklroest@...>> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Janet, Andrius and All,
              >
              > Last Sunday I spent several hours at the Maker Fair (see Make
              > Magazine's website) and afterward discussing his family of
              > inventions for sustainability, and the associated business
              > opportunities. I thought of you all, and this seems like a
              > good point to introduce it.
              >
              > Jon is the head of Kyoto, Free is the Sun,
              > www.kyoto-energy.com <http://www.kyoto-energy.com>. I would
              > like to invite discussion with you all about setting up one or
              > more distributorships (larger scale) and / or dealerships
              > (local level) to retail his product line. The Kyoto Family
              > product group is particularly appropriate for small social
              > ventures created by and around both Independent Thinkers and
              > mutual support groups. This will generate real revenues, and
              > it will also pave the way to creating complex solar businesses
              > -- look at the Butterfly, which generates 800 watts per panel,
              > plus 400 degree Celcius air and 70 degree C water from cooling
              > the panels (it's a concentrating collector, 12 feet long, and
              > tracks the sun on two axes!). That business can create
              > revenues that can be the capital for building the houses he
              > designed, which will sell for $1000 per 100 square foot (9
              > square meters) module, which can be arranged 4 around a
              > central space, which needs floor and roof to make a 5th module
              > -- 500 square feet of high-tech living space, with
              > eco-utilities, for $5000.
              >
              > Please let me know if you would like to participate in
              > planning this social business venture. David Alan Foster,
              > David's employer, and I are also building a solar sales
              > business, Renewables West, which can source and sell globally;
              > see www.renewableswest.com <http://www.renewableswest.com>.
              > That is probably the vehicle we will use to work with Jon.
              >
              > Jon has a franchising system to make learning and managing
              > relatively easy, but the minimum container-load shipments and
              > Jon's habit of making products that start flat for shipping,
              > mean large-budget purchases -- probably on the order of
              > $50,000 to $150,000. That means we need to, and have the
              > opportunity to, aggregate orders from multiple dealers and
              > distributors, as long as we can cover the financing and get
              > the loads broken down and safely shipped to their
              > destinations. Who has more ideas and resources?
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Mark Roest
              >
              On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Mark Roest <marklroest@...
              <mailto:marklroest@...>> wrote:
              Hello All!

              Sorry, I forgot to mention that Jon also set up a carbon credits
              operation, so the cost of the energy saving and producing hardware can
              be recovered from selling them to people in Germany, and he also has
              financing, although I don't know the details yet. In other words, this
              thing is set up to succeed, and to empower low-income populations to
              succeed too -- in fact, that is his purpose in doing it in the first place!

              So do you want to make a difference with something that will go global,
              while empowering holistichelping and your other groups?

              Please let me know, and give me a sense of the scale you think you can
              operate on, by direct email, as well as posting: MarkLRoest@...
              <mailto:MarkLRoest@...>.

              Regards,

              Mark

              -----------------

              Hello All again:

              By the way, I realized that some will ask what the relationship of my
              communication is to the posting: I responded to the phrase, "winning by
              sharing"!, because that is what I am seeking here, along with the others
              in the network in the San Francisco Bay area.

              Regards,

              Mark
            • Andrius Kulikauskas
              Hi Meredith! I share your reply with Mark Roest. Andrius
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 11, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Meredith! I share your reply with Mark Roest. Andrius

                Meredith L. Patterson wrote:
                > Sometime in the next month or two I will be going to Ghent to take a
                > workshop from Casa Calida (http://www.casacalida.be), which teaches
                > people how to construct low-cost timber-and-strawbale homes. I suspect
                > they will be quite interested in practical solutions for solar
                > electricity and heat, and I'm interested in finding out more about the
                > Butterfly for my own house project.
                >
                > Cheers,
                > --mlp
                >
                > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Andrius Kulikauskas<ms@...> wrote:
                >
                >> Mark, Thank you for inviting us to work with your business
                >> http://www.renewableswest.com I share with more groups so that we might
                >> give serious thought. Please keep us posted. Your Solar Rover is
                >> relevant for Ricardo, Pamela McLean's and Folabi Sunday's discussion of
                >> how to power an IT centre in rural Nigeria. I have created a wiki page:
                >> http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?RenewablesWest
                >> and through that page's metadata I included Renewables West in our Shop
                >> With Us network http://www.shopwithus.org
                >> Thank you to Leon Benjamin for his idea and phrase "winning by sharing"
                >> http://www.winningbysharing.net
                >> Andrius Kulikauskas, Minciu Sodas, http://www.ms.lt, ms@...
                >>
                >> Mark Roest wrote:
                >>
                >>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mark Roest <marklroest@...
                >>> <mailto:marklroest@...>> wrote:
                >>>
                >>> Dear Janet, Andrius and All,
                >>>
                >>> Last Sunday I spent several hours at the Maker Fair (see Make
                >>> Magazine's website) and afterward discussing his family of
                >>> inventions for sustainability, and the associated business
                >>> opportunities. I thought of you all, and this seems like a
                >>> good point to introduce it.
                >>>
                >>> Jon is the head of Kyoto, Free is the Sun,
                >>> www.kyoto-energy.com <http://www.kyoto-energy.com>. I would
                >>> like to invite discussion with you all about setting up one or
                >>> more distributorships (larger scale) and / or dealerships
                >>> (local level) to retail his product line. The Kyoto Family
                >>> product group is particularly appropriate for small social
                >>> ventures created by and around both Independent Thinkers and
                >>> mutual support groups. This will generate real revenues, and
                >>> it will also pave the way to creating complex solar businesses
                >>> -- look at the Butterfly, which generates 800 watts per panel,
                >>> plus 400 degree Celcius air and 70 degree C water from cooling
                >>> the panels (it's a concentrating collector, 12 feet long, and
                >>> tracks the sun on two axes!). That business can create
                >>> revenues that can be the capital for building the houses he
                >>> designed, which will sell for $1000 per 100 square foot (9
                >>> square meters) module, which can be arranged 4 around a
                >>> central space, which needs floor and roof to make a 5th module
                >>> -- 500 square feet of high-tech living space, with
                >>> eco-utilities, for $5000.
                >>>
                >>> Please let me know if you would like to participate in
                >>> planning this social business venture. David Alan Foster,
                >>> David's employer, and I are also building a solar sales
                >>> business, Renewables West, which can source and sell globally;
                >>> see www.renewableswest.com <http://www.renewableswest.com>.
                >>> That is probably the vehicle we will use to work with Jon.
                >>>
                >>> Jon has a franchising system to make learning and managing
                >>> relatively easy, but the minimum container-load shipments and
                >>> Jon's habit of making products that start flat for shipping,
                >>> mean large-budget purchases -- probably on the order of
                >>> $50,000 to $150,000. That means we need to, and have the
                >>> opportunity to, aggregate orders from multiple dealers and
                >>> distributors, as long as we can cover the financing and get
                >>> the loads broken down and safely shipped to their
                >>> destinations. Who has more ideas and resources?
                >>>
                >>> Regards,
                >>>
                >>> Mark Roest
                >>>
                >>>
                >> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Mark Roest <marklroest@...
                >> <mailto:marklroest@...>> wrote:
                >> Hello All!
                >>
                >> Sorry, I forgot to mention that Jon also set up a carbon credits
                >> operation, so the cost of the energy saving and producing hardware can
                >> be recovered from selling them to people in Germany, and he also has
                >> financing, although I don't know the details yet. In other words, this
                >> thing is set up to succeed, and to empower low-income populations to
                >> succeed too -- in fact, that is his purpose in doing it in the first place!
                >>
                >> So do you want to make a difference with something that will go global,
                >> while empowering holistichelping and your other groups?
                >>
                >> Please let me know, and give me a sense of the scale you think you can
                >> operate on, by direct email, as well as posting: MarkLRoest@...
                >> <mailto:MarkLRoest@...>.
                >>
                >> Regards,
                >>
                >> Mark
                >>
                >> -----------------
                >>
                >> Hello All again:
                >>
                >> By the way, I realized that some will ask what the relationship of my
                >> communication is to the posting: I responded to the phrase, "winning by
                >> sharing"!, because that is what I am seeking here, along with the others
                >> in the network in the San Francisco Bay area.
                >>
                >> Regards,
                >>
                >> Mark
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Please note our rule: Each letter sent to this group enters the Public Domain unless it explicitly states otherwise. http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.orgYahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Mark Roest
                Hello Meredith and All, Jon is the inventor of the Kyoto products; if you provide the product questions you have, he may be able to assist you (please copy me,
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 14, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello Meredith and All,

                  Jon is the inventor of the Kyoto products; if you provide the product questions you have, he may be able to assist you (please copy me, too! I'd like to know both questions and answers). I would like to know who is interested in selling his products, and in going together with others to aggregate full container orders (almost everything he makes ships flat).

                  Jon mentioned that the Butterfly only works well in full direct sun, not on cloudy days. One of the services Renewables West could provide is helping you choose what electricity-making products to buy or build (or sell) in a given climate. Jon also sells hot water systems, which would conserve on electricity (we use natural gas in California, but is appears that much of the world heats water with electricity). A kilowatt saved is a kilowatt earned!

                  I don't know what the production release dates are for those products that are not being manufactured yet. My question is in preparation for doing business plans, and finding a way to move forward. Jon's brochure says he provides financing, as well as the carbon credits that make his product line really affordable.

                  Regards,

                  Mark Roest
                  MarkLRoest@...

                  On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:34 AM, Andrius Kulikauskas <ms@...> wrote:


                  Hi Meredith! I share your reply with Mark Roest. Andrius

                  Meredith L. Patterson wrote:
                  > Sometime in the next month or two I will be going to Ghent to take a
                  > workshop from Casa Calida (http://www.casacalida.be), which teaches
                  > people how to construct low-cost timber-and-strawbale homes. I suspect
                  > they will be quite interested in practical solutions for solar
                  > electricity and heat, and I'm interested in finding out more about the
                  > Butterfly for my own house project.
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  > --mlp


                  >
                  > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Andrius Kulikauskas<ms@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> Mark, Thank you for inviting us to work with your business
                  >> http://www.renewableswest.com I share with more groups so that we might
                  >> give serious thought. Please keep us posted. Your Solar Rover is
                  >> relevant for Ricardo, Pamela McLean's and Folabi Sunday's discussion of
                  >> how to power an IT centre in rural Nigeria. I have created a wiki page:
                  >> http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?RenewablesWest
                  >> and through that page's metadata I included Renewables West in our Shop
                  >> With Us network http://www.shopwithus.org
                  >> Thank you to Leon Benjamin for his idea and phrase "winning by sharing"
                  >> http://www.winningbysharing.net
                  >> Andrius Kulikauskas, Minciu Sodas, http://www.ms.lt, ms@...
                  >>
                  >> Mark Roest wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mark Roest <marklroest@...
                  >>> <mailto:marklroest@...>> wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>> Dear Janet, Andrius and All,
                  >>>
                  >>> Last Sunday I spent several hours at the Maker Fair (see Make
                  >>> Magazine's website) and afterward discussing his family of
                  >>> inventions for sustainability, and the associated business
                  >>> opportunities. I thought of you all, and this seems like a
                  >>> good point to introduce it.
                  >>>
                  >>> Jon is the head of Kyoto, Free is the Sun,
                  >>> www.kyoto-energy.com <http://www.kyoto-energy.com>. I would
                  >>> like to invite discussion with you all about setting up one or
                  >>> more distributorships (larger scale) and / or dealerships
                  >>> (local level) to retail his product line. The Kyoto Family
                  >>> product group is particularly appropriate for small social
                  >>> ventures created by and around both Independent Thinkers and
                  >>> mutual support groups. This will generate real revenues, and
                  >>> it will also pave the way to creating complex solar businesses
                  >>> -- look at the Butterfly, which generates 800 watts per panel,
                  >>> plus 400 degree Celcius air and 70 degree C water from cooling
                  >>> the panels (it's a concentrating collector, 12 feet long, and
                  >>> tracks the sun on two axes!). That business can create
                  >>> revenues that can be the capital for building the houses he
                  >>> designed, which will sell for $1000 per 100 square foot (9
                  >>> square meters) module, which can be arranged 4 around a
                  >>> central space, which needs floor and roof to make a 5th module
                  >>> -- 500 square feet of high-tech living space, with
                  >>> eco-utilities, for $5000.
                  >>>
                  >>> Please let me know if you would like to participate in
                  >>> planning this social business venture. David Alan Foster,
                  >>> David's employer, and I are also building a solar sales
                  >>> business, Renewables West, which can source and sell globally;
                  >>> see www.renewableswest.com <http://www.renewableswest.com>.
                  >>> That is probably the vehicle we will use to work with Jon.
                  >>>
                  >>> Jon has a franchising system to make learning and managing
                  >>> relatively easy, but the minimum container-load shipments and
                  >>> Jon's habit of making products that start flat for shipping,
                  >>> mean large-budget purchases -- probably on the order of
                  >>> $50,000 to $150,000. That means we need to, and have the
                  >>> opportunity to, aggregate orders from multiple dealers and
                  >>> distributors, as long as we can cover the financing and get
                  >>> the loads broken down and safely shipped to their
                  >>> destinations. Who has more ideas and resources?
                  >>>
                  >>> Regards,
                  >>>
                  >>> Mark Roest
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Mark Roest <marklroest@...
                  >> <mailto:marklroest@...>> wrote:
                  >> Hello All!
                  >>
                  >> Sorry, I forgot to mention that Jon also set up a carbon credits
                  >> operation, so the cost of the energy saving and producing hardware can
                  >> be recovered from selling them to people in Germany, and he also has
                  >> financing, although I don't know the details yet. In other words, this
                  >> thing is set up to succeed, and to empower low-income populations to
                  >> succeed too -- in fact, that is his purpose in doing it in the first place!
                  >>
                  >> So do you want to make a difference with something that will go global,
                  >> while empowering holistichelping and your other groups?
                  >>
                  >> Please let me know, and give me a sense of the scale you think you can
                  >> operate on, by direct email, as well as posting: MarkLRoest@...
                  >> <mailto:MarkLRoest@...>.
                  >>
                  >> Regards,
                  >>
                  >> Mark
                  >>
                  >> -----------------
                  >>
                  >> Hello All again:
                  >>
                  >> By the way, I realized that some will ask what the relationship of my
                  >> communication is to the posting: I responded to the phrase, "winning by
                  >> sharing"!, because that is what I am seeking here, along with the others
                  >> in the network in the San Francisco Bay area.
                  >>
                  >> Regards,
                  >>
                  >> Mark
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Please note our rule: Each letter sent to this group enters the Public Domain unless it explicitly states otherwise. http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.orgYahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                • Andrius Kulikauskas
                  Mark, I share your reply with Meredith ( clonearmy@gmail.com ). I also blogged parts of your letters at http://www.includer.org/?p=711 The Includer: Episode
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 17, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Mark,

                    I share your reply with Meredith ( clonearmy@... ).

                    I also blogged parts of your letters at
                    http://www.includer.org/?p=711
                    "The Includer: Episode 46: Never Expect Power At-All".

                    Yes, it would be great to have a list of recommendations on the best
                    available solutions around the world.

                    Andrius Kulikauskas, Minciu Sodas, http://www.ms.lt, ms@...

                    Mark Roest wrote:
                    > Hello Meredith and All,
                    >
                    > Jon is the inventor of the Kyoto products; if you provide the product
                    > questions you have, he may be able to assist you (please copy me, too!
                    > I'd like to know both questions and answers). I would like to know who
                    > is interested in selling his products, and in going together with
                    > others to aggregate full container orders (almost everything he makes
                    > ships flat).
                    >
                    > Jon mentioned that the Butterfly only works well in full direct sun,
                    > not on cloudy days. One of the services Renewables West could provide
                    > is helping you choose what electricity-making products to buy or build
                    > (or sell) in a given climate. Jon also sells hot water systems, which
                    > would conserve on electricity (we use natural gas in California, but
                    > is appears that much of the world heats water with electricity). A
                    > kilowatt saved is a kilowatt earned!
                    >
                    > I don't know what the production release dates are for those products
                    > that are not being manufactured yet. My question is in preparation for
                    > doing business plans, and finding a way to move forward. Jon's
                    > brochure says he provides financing, as well as the carbon credits
                    > that make his product line really affordable.
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    >
                    > Mark Roest
                    > MarkLRoest@... <mailto:MarkLRoest@...>
                    >



                    The Includer is a device for reading and writing emails offline. At some
                    point, you’ll want to upload and download them at an Internet access
                    point. But what if you don’t have one? Or maybe you have access to the
                    Internet through your mobile phone, but you don’t have enough
                    electricity to power a laptop or computer?
                    Renewables West sells Solar Rover

                    Renewables West sells Solar Rover

                    This month Pamela McLean (of Episode 31) dedicated her First Thursday
                    Chat to helping Folabi Sunday in rural Nigeria (of Episode 40) think
                    through how to power a local ICT centre. Her invitation explained:

                    You may remember that Fola uses his phone to go online. He has been
                    doing some successful experiments linking his phone to a PC. He is
                    wondering about the possibility of helping the Information Centre at
                    Ago-Are to use this approach in order to bring email facilities to
                    Ago-Are. I think various people in Minciu Sodas in East Africa have been
                    exploring similar ideas, linking in with Ricardo’s sneakernet ideas. I
                    hope Pastor David, manager of the Info-Centre, will also manage to be
                    with Fola when he joins us (Fola may be a bit late as he has is teaching
                    earlier in the day, but he will make it as soon as he can). Either they
                    will have to run a generator (and the Info centre one is very old and
                    unreliable now) or they will need to find some other solution.

                    A flavor of the chat:

                    Ricardo: Pam and Fola, have you both read through the 2nd version of the
                    plan? I suggested using a laptop for internet access, as it’s battery
                    powered, and not dependent on NEPA. I set out a range of options for
                    power. :: Also, a GPRS/3G phone for internet access runs on battery
                    power, or you can use a USB 3G Modem, powered from the laptop battery
                    when NEPA goes off. … Fola, what do you think the best options are for
                    power? In the 2nd version, i mentioned that a laptop battery could be
                    charged a little from many different sources, to keep it 100% topped up.
                    … Yes sasha, for the Ago-Are ICT centre, they could use an old laptop
                    from ebay, plus a new battery. :: Sasha, I emailed a whole plan to fola
                    and pam, but you haven’t seen it yet. …. The centre can charge a laptop
                    battery a little from NEPA when it’s on, from a 12V DC car cigarette
                    lighter, or buy a small solar charger, like solargorilla. … Hi Graham.
                    In Nigeria, NEPA, the 240V mains power is terrible. It comes on, then
                    straight off for 7 days, on for an hour etc. Solar would be very good,
                    if the community can afford the capital cost of the solar charger. ::
                    I’ve seen commercial laptop solar chargers like the solargorilla, but
                    they are 137 GBP. Is it possible to make a solar charger system for
                    laptops (aboout 18V DC at 3.5 AMPs i think). … Fola, the ago-are centre
                    will presumably want to keep the cost of equipment down. We could start
                    with experiments on internet-access, using your phone for the day and
                    one of the existing PCs :: but the PC needs 240V power from somewhere. …
                    We need to think about the short-term and long-term power for the
                    centre. Although in the short-term, you could use a solar laptop
                    charger, that would still leave the rest of the equipment (PCs, TV,
                    Satellite receiver etc) without a good power supply. :: Fola, In a
                    typical month, is NEPA on for enough hours to charge some car batteries,
                    to use for the PCs etc when NEPA is off.

                    Folabi Sunday: I think using a laptop will solve NEPA problem for us in
                    AA … And replacing the old battery with new ones will be better than
                    waitng for nepa … This is a good idea but how do we solve NEPA … I took
                    the small gen from my younger sister to use personally … There is an old
                    lister gen that is usually developing faults and it use diesel which is
                    costly than petrol :: I have done that in my own room and not in the
                    centre … And it works perfectly except that my Megabite runs off faster
                    than on mobile and I have to print out R tips on how to reduce spent
                    date and digest them because they seem thecnical to me …

                    Graham Knight: I’m puzzled as no-one seems to ever mention
                    solar-charging for mobiles. …
                    Kyoto Butterfly Solar Generator yields 800 W, hot air, hot water.

                    Kyoto Butterfly Solar Generator yields 800 W, hot air, hot water.

                    I did some research into electric generators. I couldn’t find anything
                    at Appropedia, surprisingly. (Later, I had the chance to give my
                    feedback to Preston at Global Swadeshi). I wonder what Edward Cherlin of
                    Earth Treasury would recommend. And then a few days later we got a
                    letter from Mark Roest about his new venture:

                    Mark Roest: Last Sunday I spent several hours at the Maker Fair (see
                    Make Magazine’s website) … Jon is the head of Kyoto, Free is the Sun. I
                    would like to invite discussion with you all about setting up one or
                    more distributorships (larger scale) and / or dealerships (local level)
                    to retail his product line. The Kyoto Family product group is
                    particularly appropriate for small social ventures created by and around
                    both Independent Thinkers and mutual support groups. This will generate
                    real revenues, and it will also pave the way to creating complex solar
                    businesses — look at the Butterfly, which generates 800 watts per panel,
                    plus 400 degree Celcius air and 70 degree C water from cooling the
                    panels (it’s a concentrating collector, 12 feet long, and tracks the sun
                    on two axes!). That business can create revenues that can be the capital
                    for building the houses he designed, which will sell for $1000 per 100
                    square foot (9 square meters) module, which can be arranged 4 around a
                    central space, which needs floor and roof to make a 5th module — 500
                    square feet of high-tech living space, with eco-utilities, for $5000.
                    Please let me know if you would like to participate in planning this
                    social business venture. David Alan Foster, David’s employer, and I are
                    also building a solar sales business, Renewables West, which can source
                    and sell globally. That is probably the vehicle we will use to work with
                    Jon.

                    Meredith Patterson: Sometime in the next month or two I will be going to
                    Ghent to take a workshop from Casa Calida, which teaches people how to
                    construct low-cost timber-and-strawbale homes. I suspect they will be
                    quite interested in practical solutions for solar electricity and heat,
                    and I’m interested in finding out more about the Butterfly for my own
                    house project.

                    Mark Roest: Jon mentioned that the Butterfly only works well in full
                    direct sun, not on cloudy days. One of the services Renewables West
                    could provide is helping you choose what electricity-making products to
                    buy or build (or sell) in a given climate.

                    That sounds like a good service!
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