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Re: [holistichelping] Re: Peace Caravan

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  • Rachel Kungu
    Sasha! I didnt know Peace Caravan is an English Language. Thank you for the enlightment. Rachel ... -- Rachel Wambui Kung u Executive Director Voluntary Youth
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 7, 2009
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      Sasha! I didnt know Peace Caravan is an English Language. Thank you
      for the enlightment.
      Rachel

      On 3/6/09, Sasha <mrkflux@...> wrote:
      > I must say that I don't understand this. Peace caravan is your idea? I
      > thought those are two words in English language. How can you own a
      > immaterial thing like an idea is?
      > Please don't think that I have anything against you personally or that I
      > disrespect your efforts, projects and ideas.
      >
      > Regards, Sasha
      >
      >
      > --- In holistichelping@yahoogroups.com, Rachel Kungu <rachel.kungu@...>
      > wrote:
      >>
      >> Dear all, I just want to let you know that PEACE CARAVAN in Kenya is
      >> my Idea and property of VYP. Please give birth to your own idea and
      >> keep off from PEACE CARAVAN. Please dont dare. Janet was it a blessg
      >> in disguise for u to introduce me to POP? Rachel
      >
      >
      >


      --
      Rachel Wambui Kung'u
      Executive Director
      Voluntary Youth Philanthropists
      P.O.Box 19705-00202
      Tel: +254 2367689
      Mobile: +254 721 626389
      website: www.peace-caravan.org
      www.peacecaravan.ushahidi.com
      Blog: www.peacecaravan.wordpress.com
      skype: rachelken1
    • Jeff Buderer
      Dear All, I am just coming into this discussion and so I may be misunderstanding but I think the key thing is that Rachel is closely keeping what she feels is
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 7, 2009
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        Dear All,

        I am just coming into this discussion and so I may be misunderstanding but I think the key thing is that Rachel is closely keeping what she feels is her IP (intellectual property) "close to her chest".

        This is not to say that she is wrong, but I would think that kind of strong sense of IP ownership is appearing to be contrary to the values of MS/this network.

        However, maybe it is coming from an understandable concern that people may not credit her work and creative efforts.

        More directly to Rachel... I am not an expert on this but possibly you can Trademark Peace Caravan to prevent other groups from using that name for commercial purposes - at least in the US. I am not sure about Kenya or European law though. It does seem like a pretty generic term though and so you would probably have difficulties copyrighting it (which as I understand it are more extensive restrictions on its use).

        Another option is Creative Commons which are not as restrictive as conventional copyright systems and seek to prevent people using your work without giving you credit. I am not sure what this would specifically apply to in terms of your work and how it might be protected.

        One final thought...if you are talking about peace consider that your strong concerns about people stealing your work may actually move you away from that ideal of peace that you are implying though the use of the word.

        Jeff



        On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 4:04 AM, Rachel Kungu <rachel.kungu@...> wrote:

        Sasha! I didnt know Peace Caravan is an English Language. Thank you
        for the enlightment.
        Rachel

        On 3/6/09, Sasha <mrkflux@...> wrote:
        > I must say that I don't understand this. Peace caravan is your idea? I
        > thought those are two words in English language. How can you own a
        > immaterial thing like an idea is?
        > Please don't think that I have anything against you personally or that I
        > disrespect your efforts, projects and ideas.
        >
        > Regards, Sasha
        >
        >
        > --- In holistichelping@yahoogroups.com, Rachel Kungu <rachel.kungu@...>
        > wrote:
        >>
        >> Dear all, I just want to let you know that PEACE CARAVAN in Kenya is
        >> my Idea and property of VYP. Please give birth to your own idea and
        >> keep off from PEACE CARAVAN. Please dont dare. Janet was it a blessg
        >> in disguise for u to introduce me to POP? Rachel
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Rachel Wambui Kung'u
        Executive Director
        Voluntary Youth Philanthropists
        P.O.Box 19705-00202
        Tel: +254 2367689
        Mobile: +254 721 626389
        website: www.peace-caravan.org
        www.peacecaravan.ushahidi.com
        Blog: www.peacecaravan.wordpress.com
        skype: rachelken1


      • Edmix Sounds
        That s right Andrius! i believe every one was born different and that s a great things. all of us should think in terms of seeking second opinion before we
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 7, 2009
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          That's right Andrius!
          i believe every one was born different and that's a great things. all of us should think in terms of seeking second opinion before we decide or do anything.
          we should all be creative of everything that happens around us no matter what. i think that changes or gives someone an idea of what to do.

          or partnering with other guys who have the same idea as yours or you share what you think and feel you want to do. i think most of us want to be independent with our ideas.

          lets all pull our idea together bro/sisters.

          regards
          Edwine.


          --- On Fri, 3/6/09, Andrius Kulikauskas <ms@...> wrote:
          From: Andrius Kulikauskas <ms@...>
          Subject: [holistichelping] Peace Caravan, what's in a name?
          To: holistichelping@yahoogroups.com, learnhowtolearn@yahoogroups.com, voiceful@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 9:18 AM

          Hi Sasha,

          I think it's a matter of inclusion and being supportive of each other.
          How do we work together to include everybody and their contributions?

          Leaders develop ideas and invest in them. My understanding is that
          Rachel Wambui Kungu came up with the idea of "Peace Caravan" and
          organized several of them in Kenya, and they are quite elaborate and
          exciting, I think even with camels, see http://www.peace- caravan.org
          Kennedy Owino and Dennis Kimambo participated in one of them last summer.

          If we all want to work together, then we need to respect people's
          individual investments in bringing to life their visions. Individuals
          share their vision with words like "peace caravan" or "worknet" or
          "holistic helping". We can hurt their efforts if we don't respect their
          words.

          I think it's simplest if we simply keep in touch with each other, as we
          do in Holistic Helping, so that the people most affected, like Rachel
          for "peace caravan", can guide us to the best use of the words. If
          Chris and Kennedy want to organize a "peace caravan" like Rachel does,
          then why not ask her how they might work together? And if they want to
          do something different or separate, then why not call it something new
          that reflects their own vision?

          I think it's the same issue as with Ana Ilic Langudzin's "Baby
          Twister". She designed a lovely baby blanket similar to the
          Milton-Bradley game Twister. Twister is a trademarked name, but more
          importantly, why not find a new name centered on the creativity in one's
          creation? I really like the name "Baby Tumbler" that you came up with.
          It has a great future that's not linked to the commercial game Twister.

          There's many cases where we want to introduce a new idea for all to use,
          and we don't want to trademark it. So that's our goal with the word
          "includer". We'd like to promote the word "includer" as a general name
          for any kind of device that lets people read and write emails offline so
          they can be uploaded and downloaded later.

          Maybe Rachel would like to do the same with "peace caravan". But then
          we should ask her and understand her vision, how would she define it?
          and how can we support her vision? and make sure our work strengthens
          her, too?

          How can we be supportive of Rachel's vision as expressed by her idea of
          "peace caravan"? Or if we're not going to all work together, then what
          is a different name that expresses what Chris and Kennedy will do? And
          if we're not able to work together, then it's very helpful to
          acknowledge that and grow to understand why.

          We can see with the "Pyramid of Peace" that the fact that we have
          conflicting ideas of what that was about, what the underlying values are
          or were, then it's not very good to use that phrase for current or
          future work, but first come up with good names for our different
          approaches, working together and in parallel.

          Andrius

          Andrius Kulikauskas
          Minciu Sodas
          http://www.ms. lt
          ms@...

          Sasha wrote:
          > I must say that I don't understand this. Peace caravan is your idea? I thought those are two words in English language. How can you own a immaterial thing like an idea is?
          > Please don't think that I have anything against you personally or that I disrespect your efforts, projects and ideas.
          >
          > Regards, Sasha
          >
          >
          > --- In holistichelping@ yahoogroups. com, Rachel Kungu <rachel.kungu@ ...> wrote:
          >
          >> Dear all, I just want to let you know that PEACE CARAVAN in Kenya is
          >> my Idea and property of VYP. Please give birth to your own idea and
          >> keep off from PEACE CARAVAN. Please dont dare. Janet was it a blessg
          >> in disguise for u to introduce me to POP? Rachel
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------ --------- --------- ------
          >
          > http://www.worknets .org/wiki. cgi?HolisticHelp ing
          >
          > Please note our rule: Each letter sent to the Holistic Helping group enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless it explicitly states otherwise. Thank you! http://www.ethicalp ublicdomain. org
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


        • zoneziwoh
          hello happy women s day 2009 and wishing all a blessed day. chris, i jus wanted to compliment on your idea, it s great. actually my friends and i came up with
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 8, 2009
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            hello
            happy women's day 2009 and wishing all a blessed day.

            chris, i jus wanted to compliment on your idea, it's great. actually my friends and i came up with such an idea here in Cameroon 'MAKING OUR CAMEROONIAN FILMS & ARTS CULTURE KNOWN'.  we intend making it a street live performance from artists, a projection of thrillers and other creative work of arts.
            we feel that it will be a better forum to impact on societal well beign, as well as sensitizing the public about their rich cultural values. also to encourage the people to comsume their products...

            by the way, following the little misunderstanding on your branding, since your vision is for a positive change, why not try something different like "verdant safari" verdent which means grean and the color reflects peace, artistic and it's also a way of friendship.
            well! didn't want to brainstorm deep, so safari just like what janet said is ok, since it seem to be a populaire movement. or in order words it involves every living soul on earth so the word 'safari'

            thanks
            hope the contriution will help
            zoneziwoh

            www.zoneziwohshow.com

            freelance writer
            blog www.thesop.org/html/writers.php?writer=zone

            http://www.Vision4Plenty.org/zoneziwoh

            Response to "NGO Worker Sentenced to Life Imprisonment"
            http://newsblaze.com/story/20090108080658zzzz.nb/topstory.html

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            http://newsblaze.com/story/20081012153035tsop.nb/topstory.html

            Response to "Australia: Indian Women, Down Under and Tortured"
            http://newsblaze.com/story/20081106083032zzzz.nb/topstory.html

            Have We Forgotten How to Take Care of Ourselves?
            http://newsblaze.com/story/20081027060208zzzz.nb/topstory.html


            MERITOCRACY, BE YOUR PRINCIPLE

            --- On Fri, 6/3/09, Janet Feldman <kaippg@...> wrote:

            From: Janet Feldman <kaippg@...>
            Subject: Re: [holistichelping] Peace Caravan from Kenya to Italy meet/Chris (and Rachel): plz address wording
            To: holistichelping@yahoogroups.com
            Received: Friday, 6 March, 2009, 1:08 AM

            Dear All,

            Hello and thanks for your postings. When I first saw the title of this
            endeavor and letter, I thought that Rachel and Chris had linked up together.
            Now I see that is not true.

            Chris, I think you should find another name for your endeavor, as "Peace
            Caravan" is Rachel's idea and the name of her endeavor. You may be doing
            some of the things that a "caravan" might do, but in this case, I think
            perhaps you could use the word "safari", or "tour", or "journey".

            Your initiative itself is excellent, and it would be great to include in
            your plans and advertising some "homage" to the original peace caravan,
            Rachel's. I see that you say below: "peace safari caravan". So perhaps you
            would be better off dropping "caravan", or even changing the name a bit
            more, something like "peace tour".

            Chris, plz respond and let's try to figure out what you can do. I'm sure you
            did not mean to deliberately "steal" someone else's idea, and the words
            "caravan" and "safari" are no-one's exclusive property. We have the
            organizer of the "Peace Caravan" among our members--about which you and we
            have all heard a lot during the past year--so the phrase probably has caught
            your eye and imagination.

            However, your use of the term could easily become confused with the work of
            the Voluntary Youth Philanthropists, and is especially "tricky" as we all
            work together. So for these reasons, please do think of another name that
            captures what you want to convey, though in different words.

            Thanks immensely and blessings to all, Janet

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Rachel Kungu" <rachel.kungu@ gmail.com>
            To: <holistichelping@ yahoogroups. com>
            Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 5:25 PM
            Subject: Re: [holistichelping] Peace Caravan from Kenya to Italy meet

            Dear all, I just want to let you know that PEACE CARAVAN in Kenya is
            my Idea and property of VYP. Please give birth to your own idea and
            keep off from PEACE CARAVAN. Please dont dare. Janet was it a blessg
            in disguise for u to introduce me to POP? Rachel

            On 3/5/09, chrispinus ouma <cpambake@yahoo. com> wrote:
            >
            > Peace Caravan from Kenya to Italy meet :
            > YOUTH IN MULTI-CULTURAL SOCIETY FOR A NEW EUROPE
            > 3 months ( July - September 2009)
            > As our societies become increasingly multicultural, we need alternative
            > visions of what it means to co-exist, interact, and learn from/in the
            > community. Recently the European society is facing new challenges in
            > economy
            > and social life requiring innovative strategies. The Kenya in Salento and
            > Nafsi Afrika Acrobats Peace Safari Caravan initiative seeks to imagine a
            > future that celebrates the plenitude and diversity of the world's cultures
            > cooperating for a common future, within three major objectives:
            > Focusing on our shared human interests in peace, equity, and justice by
            > providing fora in which Arts provide an expressive vocabulary for the
            > examination of social and political issues affecting our communities.
            > Creating a space in which visual and performing artists can acknowledge
            > difference and advocate creative, and non-violent conflict resolution, by
            > engaging with each other and their audiences, especially young people. The
            > goal of this cross-cultural exchange of artistic ideas is to foster new
            > aesthetic directions and endeavours, renewing our commitment to
            > understanding each other and to peace and justice.
            > Introducing innovative approaches to youth education, developing
            > awareness about a different vision of Africa to overcome cultural, social,
            > racial prejudices. Transferring values and practices of respect, sharing
            > and solidarity for sustainability and stability of our society. Relying on
            > Arts as a platform for social innovation and peace and justice education,
            > in
            > order to inspire hope and build bridges across cultures
            >
            > Chrispinus Ouma Pamba / KENIANS IN
            > SALENTO
            >
            > --- On Sat, 3/8/08, Andrius Kulikauskas <ms@...> wrote:
            >
            > From: Andrius Kulikauskas <ms@...>
            > Subject: [holistichelping] Kenya Citizens Assembly wants to work with us!
            > To: "help group" <holistichelping@ yahoogroups. com>,
            > "learningfromeachot her"
            > <learningfromeachoth er@yahoogroups. com>, vsojitoleervs@ yahoogroups. com,
            > fightingpeacefully@ yahoogroups. com
            > Date: Saturday, March 8, 2008, 1:14 PM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I participated today in a teleforum of the Kenya Citizens Assembly.
            > About twelve people chatted. I share excerpts from my own comments and
            > exchanges with Tegi Obanda +1-647-208-1265 (International Coordinator)
            > who is in Canada. Tegi is very supportive of our work and urges us to
            > work together. He is interested that we organize groups throughout
            > Kenya that could discuss the Kenyan Constitution drafts and provide
            > delegates for the Citizens Assembly. They will have another teleforum
            > next Saturday at the same time (5:30pm-7:30pm Kenya Time (+3hrs GMT),
            > 9:30am-11:30am Eastern-- New York Time (-5hrs GMT)) and they are
            > considering using our chat room http://www.worknets .org/chat/ Also, we
            > will be having a meeting in Nakuru and are inviting Citizen Assembly
            > participants to join us and participate from there both locally and
            > online.
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas, Minciu Sodas, http://www.ms. lt, ms@...
            > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: I lead the Pyramid of Peace
            > http://www.pyramido fpeace.net with 100 peacemakers on-the-ground in
            > Kenya and we're working on a Constitution for Humanity
            > http://www.worknets .org/wiki. cgi?Constitution
            >
            > Tegi and all, I very much support the CA. The Pyramid of Peace wishes
            > to contribute a wider perspective, a Constitution for Humanity, for
            > which any nation-state' s constitution would be secondary. I lead the
            > Minciu Sodas laboratory for independent thinkers, and we responded to
            > avert genocide because we have quite a few participants in Kenya. But
            > we did so as humans, not Kenyans. Our 100+ peacemakers opened the roads
            > at Naivasha, near Eldoret, unlocked Molo, and most recently we're
            > engaging the Mungikis who demonstrated in Nairobi. Next weekend we're
            > organizing a meeting in Nakuru to discuss the Constitution for Humanity
            > and we invite all here to join us.
            >
            > My outline of the Constitution for Humanity is based on the rights to
            > love, to care, to cherish. We have a top-down command structure which
            > lets independent peacemakers wield authority without restriction. We
            > want to have a bottom-up system of Stewardship Councils organized by
            > location and bioregion for consensus, especially regarding sharing of
            > resources. We want to have Choirs for each culture or tribe to have
            > clear and responsible leadership so that we might cherish our
            > upbringings, each Choir having 30 or so talented, literate people
            > (artists, musicians, professors, scientists, etc.) who speak for that
            > culture or tribe, be able to establish, annul, reform traditions, and
            > design the upbringing for the children and youth and their relationshp
            > with the elders.
            >
            > I am a Lithuanian (born in the USA) living in Lithuania and writing from
            > there. So I don't want to speak for Kenyans, except to say that our
            > leaders and participants are very interested to think beyond Kenya. I
            > suggest to consider the nation-state as a historical reality but perhaps
            > not forever, and to have the constitution be open to the future. A
            > nation-state allows people to be independent from oppressors and
            > typically unites several bioregions so they share a port, natural
            > resources, wilderness, highlands. Yet we see that the dynamic in the
            > crisis was very different in the Lake, Rift Valley, Nairobi and Coastal
            > regions. So as the future develops do they have to be subject to each
            > other in every way? Can they cooperate as bioregions. So I have
            > encouraged us not to acknowledge "Kenya" any more than we have to. We
            > will have each bioregion's Stewardship Council participate separately in
            > the Constitution for Humanity. And the Kenyan national questions would
            > be handled I think by a Constitutional Youth Authority (perhaps like
            > your CA) where the emphasis is on the Youth because they care about the
            > future, and the point is to make sure that the Kenyan Constitution is in
            > harmony with a greater Constitution for Humanity.
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: Great ideas Andrius---we welcome all avenues for
            > dialogue.
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: I agree with Andrew Mweu. Rachel Wambui Kungu
            > (our current Commander of Operations) made clear to us the need for an
            > Opposition and that is the role for us that a Constitutional Youth
            > Autority for Kenya might play, too. [...]
            >
            > I propose an alternative for our times that I am taking. The analogy
            > is with Linus Torvalds and the Linux computer operating system. I am
            > an "inventor" taking responsibility to outline and maintain the
            > Constitution for Humanity. Each individual, location, bioregion,
            > culture can choose to participate or not. Of course, I look to them for
            > feedback to see what works or not. And I continuously evolve the
            > Constitution as if it were versions of software. I do it as the leader
            > of the Minciu Sodas laboratory for independnet thinkers around the
            > world. But this way we can have rapid evolution and actually have more
            > consensus because it has to happen at every level all the time. [...]
            >
            > Which for Kenya and the CA might mean that there is lets say a Drafter
            > of a Kenyan constitution, perhaps leading a team, and they create an
            > evolving document for those who participate in the CA. And they
            > gradually extend thta to take over the country. So the CA and its many
            > local groups can rule the country now to the extent that it is able.
            >
            > I propose two structures for the CA: A team of Drafters, and then a
            > system of Stewardship Councils organized locally and by bioregion.
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: To reply to Andrius, the drafting of the costitution
            > had alreay been dne. We already have people-driven draft. So the task
            > remaining is very small--simply discussion of contentous isssues
            > thenreferendum- -on those contetious issues. [...] The Bomas draft can be
            > found here: http://www.Tegi Obanda.blogspot. com
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: The first responsibility of the Stewardship
            > Councils would be to include all those who care, the widest diversity,
            > so that they strengthen their community by making sure that resources
            > are shared well. And the second responsibility would be to make sure
            > the Stewadship Councils are able to collaborate with each other. And
            > the third responsibility is to have a framework that they like, the
            > Constitution serves them well. I think if they are weak on the first
            > two then their opinion on the third will not be so heartful. Thank you
            > for the Bomas draft, I will take a look.
            >
            > I invite all to join Janet Feldman's working group Holistic Helping
            > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/holistiche lping/ which is the most active
            > at our lab. Send a blank message to
            > holistichelping- subscribe@ yahoogroups. com
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: Andrius we can discuss how to merge the work for the
            > constitution for humanity and the CA effort. The youth group should be
            > part of the CA.
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: and if you are in Kenya please call Rachel
            > Wambui Kungu at +254 721 626 389 if you would like to participate in
            > Nakuru at our meeting next weekend. Yes
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: or vice versa but we should have one forum
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: What would be the best logic for you?
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: the people that you have mobilized are Kenyans. We are
            > working towards one constitution not two. We want the new constitution
            > to be as universally truthfulo and relevant as possible.
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: For us I think the best logic would be if
            > there was an organ like you say the CA and/or the CYA, that was
            > responsible for the constitutional issues, and what we would like to do
            > would be to organize Stewardship Councils that would be the basis for
            > making sure that all bioregions are represented, and that might be the
            > route by which delegates could participate? So that would make sure that
            > the people who represent globally are also active locally. I mean
            > nationally are also active locally.
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: Yes, we are talking basically about the same thing.
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: Also, I am not too concerned about the details
            > of the Kenyan constitution but I think it would be a real breakthrough
            > if the Constitution envisaged that it was Not the supreme authority but
            > that there are bigger principles.
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: If you have structurees alrady in some provinvces,
            > then there is o need overlapping
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: We have peacemakers throughout the troubled
            > regions and they have engaged manypeople but we are just starting to
            > organize local structures.
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: That;'s what I meant, we merge. and create once space,
            > say in nakuru--then discuss within that sppace the concept of
            > constitution for humasnityy and the CA process.
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: Yes I also like Nakuru as the center because
            > then we are not stuck in a Nairobi mindset. Also, Nakuru was a peace
            > haven for quite some time. So please feel free to have us in mind as you
            > organize your work in Kenya.
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: What you are ying is very crucial because the
            > constition-making process cannot be successful if we do not embrace peace,
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: We want to be as supportive as we can. I think
            > it would be great if there was a Nation-State that didn't think that
            > Nation-State' s are the end all and be all. That would make them much
            > more human.
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: and peace can only be assured if we have a humane and
            > just constitution that will critically look at the historical origin of
            > our national hostitlies
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: Dennis Kimambo says "Humanity before Politics"
            > he is one of our leaders, Commanders.
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: Exactly. For a long time, we have focused on politics
            > before humanity. And the price can be steep--that preocuupation with
            > poitics for politics sake.
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: Andrius can you link your group with bugnge la
            > mwananchi. george is the coordinator
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: Tegi, I am very glad that you understand me.
            > And I'm learning quickly. I think if there is a chance, then there are
            > some basic ideas that would make any constitution more humane. Hi
            > George! Where are you? And if you give me your email I would gladly
            > sign you up for Holistic Helping and you would see the actions in the
            > different cities. And perhap you know Janet Feldman, she is the leader.
            >
            > (George) mwananchimzalendo says: Hi Andrius! i live in Kenya, email
            > address:...
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: Some basic principles would be the right of
            > independent peacemakers to take humanitarian action if nobody else is;
            > the right of people to organize their upbringing through the tribes; the
            > right of all people who care to be included in the stewardship of a
            > bioregion, even if they don't live there.
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: Ok so we continue the discussion over e-mail and then
            > next staurday we will have a texting chat same time.
            >
            > mwananchimzalendo says: Tegi, yes we got alot to discuss, let us do
            > email in the meantime and see howmuch we will have next saturday
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: I invite you to use our chat room next time
            > because it is in thePublic DOmain and so the archive can be shared.
            > http://www.worknets .org/chat/
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: will it be at the same time?
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: the room is open all the time and we would
            > reserve it for you whenever you like. And we can always create more rooms.
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: I have checked it. We can explore it next week with
            > paerticipants Yes the constitution must be quided by bigger principles.
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: I'm glad you think that. And it's strange but
            > there's a chance here. I should ask you, do you know what we should try
            > to do for funding? Because we are doing great work but I and 4 others
            > are funding it from our pocket and I have reached my limiit (about
            > 10,000 USD) which is money I borrowed. I will try to encourage each
            > local group to raise its own funds locally and with supporters around
            > the world. But it would be good to know how to encourage that. My own
            > contribution I think of as a business investment from my lab and we have
            > built many assets. But I am thinking how to make that work. These same
            > issues I think are relevant for you because the local councils are going
            > to need funds and be self-ufficient in some way to participate in the CA
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: Funds are alweays available (from the communities
            > themselves) if people come together and adopt a common purpose).
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: yes I think you are right but yet it takes skill
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: That's right. It takes skill to bring people together
            > so they can believe in the vision and share the vission.
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: yes Also we have a very effective command
            > structure and I am thinkng of applying ourselves to engage companies
            > that we care about and scrutinize them and have them or their
            > stakeholders pay us to do so. The scrutiny makes their share price more
            > accurate and in the long run attracts investment and their price goes
            > up. And so it's a matter of which companies are worth our interest, are
            > interesting for us.
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: I have no experience with cmpanies. I know they
            > usually want quid pro quo.
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: Yes so I'm thinking of having an adversarial
            > cooperation as they might with a labor union. Yahoo and Safaricom being
            > two companies that might be interested. But also we have good contacts
            > with the Mungiki demonstrators and they are interested that we embrace
            > them. And I am thinking to suggest to Rachel that we encourage them to
            > help us investigate corruption rather than to investigate murders, etc.
            > Taking many small risks rather than big ones.
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: So we had problems with skypecast voice, then rsorted
            > to texting. Thee will be e-mail discusions over the the next 7 days,
            > then the finall structuring on saturday march 15. The next week one will
            > be crucial since then is when structures and city reps are going to be
            > selected.
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: Would you like us to propose representatives?
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: I suggest that people attend next weeks discussion.
            > And then they are selected by all in a meeting. Andrius can you bring
            > those i your structure to next weeks meeting so we have o join discussion?
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: ok I will try! they will be in Nakuru for our
            > on-the-ground meeting then. could you encourage your people to attend
            > the Nakuru meeting? Saturday evening or the next day on Sunday? that
            > would be great if we might synergize I will share your and my exchanges
            > here is that all right? to our groups
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: yes, I will
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas says: great [...] yes I encourage you to use our
            > chat room http://www.worknets .org/chat/ because it is open all the time,
            > it is in the Public Domain, and there is a public transcript and if it
            > becomes too active we can use multiple rooms and we can have Skype
            > conversations in parallel
            >
            > Tegi Obanda says: ok
            >
            > ------------ --------- -------
            >
            > Drafted by the Coalition for Constitutional Reforms, Kenya (CCR-K)
            >
            > 1. Establishment of a representative Citizens Assembly: Amendment of
            > Section 47 (ties parliament's and the president's hands - they cannot
            > reject the draft after referendum); national discussion of contentious
            > issues and reform process by March 31, 2008; and preliminary discussion
            > goes up to June 30, 2008
            >
            > 2. Civic Education Workshops - To discuss the Bomas draft and bring up
            > contentious issues (July 1-September 30, 2008)
            >
            > 3. Contentious issues drawn from Civic Education Workshops (July 1 -
            > September 30, 2008)
            >
            > 4. Referendum Questions drawn from contentious issues (Oct 1-31, 2008)
            >
            > 5. Referendum on contentious issues only (November 18, 2008)
            >
            > 6. Final Constitution redraft based on referendum results (November
            > 19-30, 2008)
            >
            > 7. Final copy presented to parliament (December 1, 2008)
            >
            > 8. Parliament automatically passes (enacts) the new constitution into
            > law - has no power to discuss or reject (see stage 1 above), by December
            > 1, 2008
            >
            > 9. President automatically assents to the new constitution - has no
            > power to refuse to assent (see stage 1 above), by December 5, 2008
            >
            > 10. The new constitution replaces the old constitution, and is
            > implemented immediately (as of December 12, 2008)
            >
            > Citizen's Assembly Role and Objectives
            >
            > 1.To set the roadmap, with dates and deadlines for constitutional reforms.
            > 2.To mobilize citizens to actualize constitutional reforms and take
            > corrective measures in case people are blocked.
            > 3.To set up regional citizens' caucuses to enable Kenyans to give their
            > views on how they want to be governed.
            > 4.To serve as the voice of the populace in the constitutional reform
            > process.
            >
            > Agenda
            >
            > 1.Agree on the Draft (Zero or Bomas)
            > 2.Roadmap to Reforms
            > 3.Role of Citizen's Assembly
            > 4.Authority of Citizen's Assembly (as part of transition)
            > 5.Establishment of C.A caucuses (Abroad, in Kenya-provinces, districts
            > etc).
            > 6.Action Plans and Time lines
            > 7.Facilitating C.A
            > a)Dividing Tasks
            > b)Regional/City Coordinators
            > c)Resource Mobilization Committee
            > 8.A.O.B
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- ------
            >
            > PREAMBLE
            > We, the people of Kenya -
            > ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
            > HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to
            > our land:
            > PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity and determined to
            > live in peace and unity as one
            > indivisible sovereign nation:
            > RESPECTFUL of the natural environment that is our heritage, and
            > determined to sustain it for the
            > benefit of future generations:
            > COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual,
            > the family and the
            > community:
            > RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the
            > essential values of
            > freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
            > EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of
            > governance of our country
            > and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
            > ADOPT, enact and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future
            > generations.
            > GOD BLESS KENYA
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            Rachel Wambui Kung'u
            Executive Director
            Voluntary Youth Philanthropists
            P.O.Box 19705-00202
            Tel: +254 2367689
            Mobile: +254 721 626389
            website: www.peace-caravan. org
            www.peacecaravan. ushahidi. com
            Blog: www.peacecaravan. wordpress. com
            skype: rachelken1

            ------------ --------- --------- ------

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