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Janet, call on Saturday? and assertiveness!

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  • Andrius Kulikauskas
    Janet, Thank you for your leadership and many letters, but especially regarding how we might best structure ourselves and I would say, a culture, a movement
    Message 1 of 3 , Mar 26, 2008
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      Janet,

      Thank you for your leadership and many letters, but especially regarding
      how we might best structure ourselves and I would say, a culture, a
      movement for independent thinkers. I have been focused on our workshop
      in Vilnius http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org but I keep returning to
      your thoughts, especially your assertiveness in your letter below.

      Our meeting in Vilnius will be quite large, perhaps even larger than the
      one in Nakuru! and will last several days, notably from Saturday to
      Tuesday. Saturday afternoon we will have a meeting of Minciu Sodas /
      Pyramid of Peace (from Europe, Africa, Lithuania) and I think it would
      be great to have a conference call with you on these subjects, say for
      15 to 30 minutes, if you are free in your morning or noon. (We are
      currently six hours ahead of you.)

      I reread your letter and I am impressed how thoughtfully you word your
      concerns, positions, decisions. I wish to point to your assertiveness:
      * I believe that changes in this regard should begin NOW.
      * it becomes even more important to organize ourselves in such a way
      that people will join us
      * I will not do fundraising and/or source support for anything that
      relates to what I regard as an older order, or which to my mind
      represents the antithesis of a healthy, holistic approach to development
      and peace
      * make very clear what I myself can and/or cannot do to be helpful and
      to advance our work

      I think the assertiveness which you practice is the whole purpose of the
      leadership structure which suggested itself and which I encouraged in
      our work to help Kenyans. I think the structure was original, was
      designed to foster such assertiveness, and in that sense any resemblance
      to an "older order" is coincidental or simply good.

      What is the role of assertiveness in the structures that you propose? I
      don't believe that assertiveness is simply a matter of crisis. Indeed,
      I believe that the willingness to let go is fundamental to the ability
      to stay together.

      As our activity has wound down a bit, I have been thinking, what do I
      want to focus on? especially regard to our structure around the world.
      My priority is to support independent thinkers and their growth and so I
      myself am interested that our structures flow out from that.

      We're all independent thinkers to some degree, but there is a wide
      spectrum. Independent thinkers are able to work together without
      agreeing. They are able to work-in-parallel, to work by themselves,
      even to work with a split mind, which is to say, not in complete
      agreement with themselves, pursuing different lines of thinking,
      different possibilities, different approaches. Indeed, this makes
      independent thinkers ever open (ever so slightly) to accepting the point
      of view of an opponent or even to allow for a God who may know better
      than we do, or simply a truth that knows how the lines of thinking fit
      together even when we don't.

      I think that consensus is important for listening to people. But
      listening should be kept apart from influencing. We influence others as
      independent thinkers, by not agreeing or not having to agree, by going
      our own way or being ever ready to do so. Listening - in the case of a
      group consensus - gives us the lowest common denominator, a reference
      point from which we can start a conversation with any person. Listening
      is important as we reach out to others. But I'm more interested in
      influencing and so I'm more interested to restrict my attention to those
      who I should influence, starting with myself. Given the choice, I can
      choose to influence myself rather than to listen to myself, which is to
      say I can shape myself so that I choose to hear what I wish to hear, I
      choose to live what I believe. I can influence others and let myself be
      influenced by them if we hold ourselves accountable for our influence.
      That is the culture that interests me.

      There are people who won't work with others unless they agree. That is
      the limitation of consensus as I know it. The people who succeed in
      that structure are those who like that limitation. I don't like that
      limitation and I am not interested to succeed in that structure.

      I think that consensus can be meaningful if we have a strong culture of
      leadership that calls people to grow. Strong people are eager to be
      around even stronger people because that helps them grow stronger. Good
      chess players love to play better chess players. I think that our
      leaders in Kenya have enjoyed our leadership structure because they have
      asserted themselves to do wonderful deeds they have wished to do.

      I think that the Kenyan crisis was a small crisis (thankfully). We were
      able to have a real impact. We find ourselves aware of much greater
      crises, of living in a system that crushes people brutally in so many
      ways. We excel in a catastrophe because we are able to perform when
      others aren't. Otherwise, we are forgotten. Yet I have learned that
      our structure was proven very good and has many applications for
      organizing ourselves to love our enemy, which might be a corporation or
      a nation-state or any plight or the system in general.

      Janet, I am therefore interested to understand you. What is the role
      that you see for the assertiveness that you show? What is the structure
      that fosters such assertiveness in the best way?

      I am keen to help people develop such assertiveness.

      Andrius

      Andrius Kulikauskas
      Minciu Sodas
      http://www.ms.lt
      ms@...

      -----------------------------------


      Dear All,

      Thanks immensely to Lawrence for his remarkable and courageous work, and to
      Rachel, Dennis, and everyone for this excellent news abt the Nakuru
      meeting.
      We look forward to a more detailed report, and greatest gratitude Rachel
      for
      contributing some of her own resources, which we will surely try to somehow
      defray.

      Andrius, I will be in touch with you about this, in part because I am
      sending something directly to Dennis for ActALIVE-REPACTED activities, and
      may run into sending roadblocks if I try to do more.

      The funding issues we are encountering will need to be addressed in a new
      way soon: I hope that Rachel and I can approach Safaricom, for example,
      and
      other types of grants and supports can be marshalled at this juncture. Did
      anything emerge from the meeting about that? Is there any word from the
      NRI
      on when we might hear about our proposals?

      The issue of funding brings up another matter for me: I hope that you saw
      my suggestions (posted Saturday) for possible ways to conceptualize and
      organize our efforts in the present and future. I believe that changes in
      this regard should begin NOW. I say this with emphasis because I believe we
      need to shift out of "crisis" mode as quickly as possible (at least how
      this
      particular crisis in Kenya has been addressed during the past few months, a
      point of contention for a number of us), and that includes the language we
      use and how we define roles and responsibilities.

      We are now linking with--or hoping to link with--a number of other
      peace-related endeavors happening throughout the country, and therefore it
      becomes even more important to organize ourselves in such a way that people
      will join us--and we will join with them--in a cooperative and egalitarian
      spirit.

      We do need "organization" for this endeavor, including "lines of
      responsibility", and we can collectively consider the roles that might be
      played by "peace champions", "peacekeepers", and "peacemakers", or whatever
      terms we use for those who are engaging at different levels of
      responsibility in peace activities.

      However we choose to approach these issues, this consideration in my
      mind is
      crucial: we cannot truly have a new vision for peace, justice, and
      inter-personal/communal/tribal relationships, while operating within
      structures which speak to an older way of organizing and conceptualizing
      our
      individual roles within the whole.

      I need to tie this to my own work and fundraising and donations: I will
      not
      do fundraising and/or source support for anything that relates to what I
      regard as an older order, or which to my mind represents the antithesis
      of a
      healthy, holistic approach to development and peace. I don't mean this to
      try to "direct" what is decided in Kenya: this is more to make very clear
      what I myself can and/or cannot do to be helpful and to advance our work.

      Again, greatest thanks to all, and blessings and love to you and yours at
      this sacred time, Janet
    • Andrius Kulikauskas
      I will add another thought... For me the purpose of listening is often to split my mind, to allow for another point of view than my own, and thus not to agree.
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 26, 2008
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        I will add another thought...

        For me the purpose of listening is often to split my mind, to allow for
        another point of view than my own, and thus not to agree. This is a
        reason that I have encouraged the Stewardship Councils so that we would
        not what "the people" want especially when it's not what we want or what
        interests us.

        Another reason for listening is to empathize with somebody as deeply as
        possible so that we can act on their behalf.

        A third reason for listening is that through others we can discover
        ourselves, too. This is perhaps a purpose for consensus.

        But I am especially interested in the first two reasons where we listen
        to a person so we as a leader can act on their behalf as best we can,
        and not to agree with them. I try to practice that and encourage that
        but I don't see that practiced or encouraged in consensus structures
        that I know of. The kind of listening that I practice is unequal - the
        one who serves is the one who leads - whereas the consensus structures
        that I am aware of are about everybody for themselves.

        Perhaps the fundamental difficulty that I have is that because I have
        always been so profoundly different from "people" that they have never
        cared to seek consensus with me, to understand how I see the world,
        which they don't have the patience for. I dedicate myself to
        understanding other people, but does anybody understand me and my
        thoughts and why I think they are important?
        http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?LivingByTruth/Overview
        No.

        I am doing my best in a happy, but lonesome world where there is no
        consensus with me. I am leading the creation of an entire culture which
        may someday allow for universal consensus, absolute truth. The
        consensus will be possible because I and others are finding each other
        and the truth and lifting ourselves up to it. I think this is happening
        at our laboratory as given by many aspects of our culture including the
        command structure which proved very cohesive for those who participated
        in it, indeed we are blessed and fortunate and encouraged that all went
        so well. I don't think that I ever experienced as profound consensus as
        I did in our command structure.

        Andrius, ms@...

        Andrius Kulikauskas wrote:
        > Janet,
        >
        > Thank you for your leadership and many letters, but especially
        > regarding how we might best structure ourselves and I would say, a
        > culture, a movement for independent thinkers. I have been focused on
        > our workshop in Vilnius http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org but I keep
        > returning to your thoughts, especially your assertiveness in your
        > letter below.
        >
        > Our meeting in Vilnius will be quite large, perhaps even larger than
        > the one in Nakuru! and will last several days, notably from Saturday
        > to Tuesday. Saturday afternoon we will have a meeting of Minciu Sodas
        > / Pyramid of Peace (from Europe, Africa, Lithuania) and I think it
        > would be great to have a conference call with you on these subjects,
        > say for 15 to 30 minutes, if you are free in your morning or noon.
        > (We are currently six hours ahead of you.)
        >
        > I reread your letter and I am impressed how thoughtfully you word your
        > concerns, positions, decisions. I wish to point to your assertiveness:
        > * I believe that changes in this regard should begin NOW.
        > * it becomes even more important to organize ourselves in such a way
        > that people will join us
        > * I will not do fundraising and/or source support for anything that
        > relates to what I regard as an older order, or which to my mind
        > represents the antithesis of a healthy, holistic approach to
        > development and peace
        > * make very clear what I myself can and/or cannot do to be helpful and
        > to advance our work
        >
        > I think the assertiveness which you practice is the whole purpose of
        > the leadership structure which suggested itself and which I encouraged
        > in our work to help Kenyans. I think the structure was original, was
        > designed to foster such assertiveness, and in that sense any
        > resemblance to an "older order" is coincidental or simply good.
        >
        > What is the role of assertiveness in the structures that you propose?
        > I don't believe that assertiveness is simply a matter of crisis.
        > Indeed, I believe that the willingness to let go is fundamental to the
        > ability to stay together.
        >
        > As our activity has wound down a bit, I have been thinking, what do I
        > want to focus on? especially regard to our structure around the
        > world. My priority is to support independent thinkers and their
        > growth and so I myself am interested that our structures flow out from
        > that.
        >
        > We're all independent thinkers to some degree, but there is a wide
        > spectrum. Independent thinkers are able to work together without
        > agreeing. They are able to work-in-parallel, to work by themselves,
        > even to work with a split mind, which is to say, not in complete
        > agreement with themselves, pursuing different lines of thinking,
        > different possibilities, different approaches. Indeed, this makes
        > independent thinkers ever open (ever so slightly) to accepting the
        > point of view of an opponent or even to allow for a God who may know
        > better than we do, or simply a truth that knows how the lines of
        > thinking fit together even when we don't.
        >
        > I think that consensus is important for listening to people. But
        > listening should be kept apart from influencing. We influence others
        > as independent thinkers, by not agreeing or not having to agree, by
        > going our own way or being ever ready to do so. Listening - in the
        > case of a group consensus - gives us the lowest common denominator, a
        > reference point from which we can start a conversation with any
        > person. Listening is important as we reach out to others. But I'm
        > more interested in influencing and so I'm more interested to restrict
        > my attention to those who I should influence, starting with myself.
        > Given the choice, I can choose to influence myself rather than to
        > listen to myself, which is to say I can shape myself so that I choose
        > to hear what I wish to hear, I choose to live what I believe. I can
        > influence others and let myself be influenced by them if we hold
        > ourselves accountable for our influence. That is the culture that
        > interests me.
        >
        > There are people who won't work with others unless they agree. That
        > is the limitation of consensus as I know it. The people who succeed
        > in that structure are those who like that limitation. I don't like
        > that limitation and I am not interested to succeed in that structure.
        >
        > I think that consensus can be meaningful if we have a strong culture
        > of leadership that calls people to grow. Strong people are eager to
        > be around even stronger people because that helps them grow stronger.
        > Good chess players love to play better chess players. I think that
        > our leaders in Kenya have enjoyed our leadership structure because
        > they have asserted themselves to do wonderful deeds they have wished
        > to do.
        >
        > I think that the Kenyan crisis was a small crisis (thankfully). We
        > were able to have a real impact. We find ourselves aware of much
        > greater crises, of living in a system that crushes people brutally in
        > so many ways. We excel in a catastrophe because we are able to
        > perform when others aren't. Otherwise, we are forgotten. Yet I have
        > learned that our structure was proven very good and has many
        > applications for organizing ourselves to love our enemy, which might
        > be a corporation or a nation-state or any plight or the system in
        > general.
        >
        > Janet, I am therefore interested to understand you. What is the role
        > that you see for the assertiveness that you show? What is the
        > structure that fosters such assertiveness in the best way?
        >
        > I am keen to help people develop such assertiveness.
        >
        > Andrius
        >
        > Andrius Kulikauskas
        > Minciu Sodas
        > http://www.ms.lt
        > ms@...
        >
        > -----------------------------------
        >
        >
        > Dear All,
        >
        > Thanks immensely to Lawrence for his remarkable and courageous work,
        > and to
        > Rachel, Dennis, and everyone for this excellent news abt the Nakuru
        > meeting.
        > We look forward to a more detailed report, and greatest gratitude
        > Rachel for
        > contributing some of her own resources, which we will surely try to
        > somehow
        > defray.
        >
        > Andrius, I will be in touch with you about this, in part because I am
        > sending something directly to Dennis for ActALIVE-REPACTED activities,
        > and
        > may run into sending roadblocks if I try to do more.
        >
        > The funding issues we are encountering will need to be addressed in a new
        > way soon: I hope that Rachel and I can approach Safaricom, for
        > example, and
        > other types of grants and supports can be marshalled at this juncture.
        > Did
        > anything emerge from the meeting about that? Is there any word from
        > the NRI
        > on when we might hear about our proposals?
        >
        > The issue of funding brings up another matter for me: I hope that you
        > saw
        > my suggestions (posted Saturday) for possible ways to conceptualize and
        > organize our efforts in the present and future. I believe that changes in
        > this regard should begin NOW. I say this with emphasis because I
        > believe we
        > need to shift out of "crisis" mode as quickly as possible (at least
        > how this
        > particular crisis in Kenya has been addressed during the past few
        > months, a
        > point of contention for a number of us), and that includes the
        > language we
        > use and how we define roles and responsibilities.
        >
        > We are now linking with--or hoping to link with--a number of other
        > peace-related endeavors happening throughout the country, and
        > therefore it
        > becomes even more important to organize ourselves in such a way that
        > people
        > will join us--and we will join with them--in a cooperative and
        > egalitarian
        > spirit.
        >
        > We do need "organization" for this endeavor, including "lines of
        > responsibility", and we can collectively consider the roles that might be
        > played by "peace champions", "peacekeepers", and "peacemakers", or
        > whatever
        > terms we use for those who are engaging at different levels of
        > responsibility in peace activities.
        >
        > However we choose to approach these issues, this consideration in my
        > mind is
        > crucial: we cannot truly have a new vision for peace, justice, and
        > inter-personal/communal/tribal relationships, while operating within
        > structures which speak to an older way of organizing and
        > conceptualizing our
        > individual roles within the whole.
        >
        > I need to tie this to my own work and fundraising and donations: I
        > will not
        > do fundraising and/or source support for anything that relates to what I
        > regard as an older order, or which to my mind represents the
        > antithesis of a
        > healthy, holistic approach to development and peace. I don't mean
        > this to
        > try to "direct" what is decided in Kenya: this is more to make very
        > clear
        > what I myself can and/or cannot do to be helpful and to advance our work.
        >
        > Again, greatest thanks to all, and blessings and love to you and yours at
        > this sacred time, Janet
        >
      • Janet Feldman
        Dear Andrius and All, How exciting that the meeting is turning out to be so well-attended! I would be delighted to join you, and thanks for asking! I will be
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 27, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear Andrius and All,

          How exciting that the meeting is turning out to be so well-attended! I
          would be delighted to join you, and thanks for asking! I will be available
          from about 11:30am onwards Sat, so let me know what works best for you. You
          can alert me that morning my time, if you will not know for certain till
          then what timeframe would be best for all of you.

          I have much more to say in response to your own feedback and thoughts, and
          will hope to do some of that Sat, as well as in writing at some point in the
          next few days.

          With greatest appreciation and blessings, Janet (assertiveness trainer :))))


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Andrius Kulikauskas" <ms@...>
          To: "help group" <holistichelping@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 3:44 PM
          Subject: [holistichelping] Janet, call on Saturday? and assertiveness!


          > Janet,
          >
          > Thank you for your leadership and many letters, but especially regarding
          > how we might best structure ourselves and I would say, a culture, a
          > movement for independent thinkers. I have been focused on our workshop
          > in Vilnius http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org but I keep returning to
          > your thoughts, especially your assertiveness in your letter below.
          >
          > Our meeting in Vilnius will be quite large, perhaps even larger than the
          > one in Nakuru! and will last several days, notably from Saturday to
          > Tuesday. Saturday afternoon we will have a meeting of Minciu Sodas /
          > Pyramid of Peace (from Europe, Africa, Lithuania) and I think it would
          > be great to have a conference call with you on these subjects, say for
          > 15 to 30 minutes, if you are free in your morning or noon. (We are
          > currently six hours ahead of you.)
          >
          > I reread your letter and I am impressed how thoughtfully you word your
          > concerns, positions, decisions. I wish to point to your assertiveness:
          > * I believe that changes in this regard should begin NOW.
          > * it becomes even more important to organize ourselves in such a way
          > that people will join us
          > * I will not do fundraising and/or source support for anything that
          > relates to what I regard as an older order, or which to my mind
          > represents the antithesis of a healthy, holistic approach to development
          > and peace
          > * make very clear what I myself can and/or cannot do to be helpful and
          > to advance our work
          >
          > I think the assertiveness which you practice is the whole purpose of the
          > leadership structure which suggested itself and which I encouraged in
          > our work to help Kenyans. I think the structure was original, was
          > designed to foster such assertiveness, and in that sense any resemblance
          > to an "older order" is coincidental or simply good.
          >
          > What is the role of assertiveness in the structures that you propose? I
          > don't believe that assertiveness is simply a matter of crisis. Indeed,
          > I believe that the willingness to let go is fundamental to the ability
          > to stay together.
          >
          > As our activity has wound down a bit, I have been thinking, what do I
          > want to focus on? especially regard to our structure around the world.
          > My priority is to support independent thinkers and their growth and so I
          > myself am interested that our structures flow out from that.
          >
          > We're all independent thinkers to some degree, but there is a wide
          > spectrum. Independent thinkers are able to work together without
          > agreeing. They are able to work-in-parallel, to work by themselves,
          > even to work with a split mind, which is to say, not in complete
          > agreement with themselves, pursuing different lines of thinking,
          > different possibilities, different approaches. Indeed, this makes
          > independent thinkers ever open (ever so slightly) to accepting the point
          > of view of an opponent or even to allow for a God who may know better
          > than we do, or simply a truth that knows how the lines of thinking fit
          > together even when we don't.
          >
          > I think that consensus is important for listening to people. But
          > listening should be kept apart from influencing. We influence others as
          > independent thinkers, by not agreeing or not having to agree, by going
          > our own way or being ever ready to do so. Listening - in the case of a
          > group consensus - gives us the lowest common denominator, a reference
          > point from which we can start a conversation with any person. Listening
          > is important as we reach out to others. But I'm more interested in
          > influencing and so I'm more interested to restrict my attention to those
          > who I should influence, starting with myself. Given the choice, I can
          > choose to influence myself rather than to listen to myself, which is to
          > say I can shape myself so that I choose to hear what I wish to hear, I
          > choose to live what I believe. I can influence others and let myself be
          > influenced by them if we hold ourselves accountable for our influence.
          > That is the culture that interests me.
          >
          > There are people who won't work with others unless they agree. That is
          > the limitation of consensus as I know it. The people who succeed in
          > that structure are those who like that limitation. I don't like that
          > limitation and I am not interested to succeed in that structure.
          >
          > I think that consensus can be meaningful if we have a strong culture of
          > leadership that calls people to grow. Strong people are eager to be
          > around even stronger people because that helps them grow stronger. Good
          > chess players love to play better chess players. I think that our
          > leaders in Kenya have enjoyed our leadership structure because they have
          > asserted themselves to do wonderful deeds they have wished to do.
          >
          > I think that the Kenyan crisis was a small crisis (thankfully). We were
          > able to have a real impact. We find ourselves aware of much greater
          > crises, of living in a system that crushes people brutally in so many
          > ways. We excel in a catastrophe because we are able to perform when
          > others aren't. Otherwise, we are forgotten. Yet I have learned that
          > our structure was proven very good and has many applications for
          > organizing ourselves to love our enemy, which might be a corporation or
          > a nation-state or any plight or the system in general.
          >
          > Janet, I am therefore interested to understand you. What is the role
          > that you see for the assertiveness that you show? What is the structure
          > that fosters such assertiveness in the best way?
          >
          > I am keen to help people develop such assertiveness.
          >
          > Andrius
          >
          > Andrius Kulikauskas
          > Minciu Sodas
          > http://www.ms.lt
          > ms@...
          >
          > -----------------------------------
          >
          >
          > Dear All,
          >
          > Thanks immensely to Lawrence for his remarkable and courageous work, and
          > to
          > Rachel, Dennis, and everyone for this excellent news abt the Nakuru
          > meeting.
          > We look forward to a more detailed report, and greatest gratitude Rachel
          > for
          > contributing some of her own resources, which we will surely try to
          > somehow
          > defray.
          >
          > Andrius, I will be in touch with you about this, in part because I am
          > sending something directly to Dennis for ActALIVE-REPACTED activities, and
          > may run into sending roadblocks if I try to do more.
          >
          > The funding issues we are encountering will need to be addressed in a new
          > way soon: I hope that Rachel and I can approach Safaricom, for example,
          > and
          > other types of grants and supports can be marshalled at this juncture. Did
          > anything emerge from the meeting about that? Is there any word from the
          > NRI
          > on when we might hear about our proposals?
          >
          > The issue of funding brings up another matter for me: I hope that you saw
          > my suggestions (posted Saturday) for possible ways to conceptualize and
          > organize our efforts in the present and future. I believe that changes in
          > this regard should begin NOW. I say this with emphasis because I believe
          > we
          > need to shift out of "crisis" mode as quickly as possible (at least how
          > this
          > particular crisis in Kenya has been addressed during the past few months,
          > a
          > point of contention for a number of us), and that includes the language we
          > use and how we define roles and responsibilities.
          >
          > We are now linking with--or hoping to link with--a number of other
          > peace-related endeavors happening throughout the country, and therefore it
          > becomes even more important to organize ourselves in such a way that
          > people
          > will join us--and we will join with them--in a cooperative and egalitarian
          > spirit.
          >
          > We do need "organization" for this endeavor, including "lines of
          > responsibility", and we can collectively consider the roles that might be
          > played by "peace champions", "peacekeepers", and "peacemakers", or
          > whatever
          > terms we use for those who are engaging at different levels of
          > responsibility in peace activities.
          >
          > However we choose to approach these issues, this consideration in my
          > mind is
          > crucial: we cannot truly have a new vision for peace, justice, and
          > inter-personal/communal/tribal relationships, while operating within
          > structures which speak to an older way of organizing and conceptualizing
          > our
          > individual roles within the whole.
          >
          > I need to tie this to my own work and fundraising and donations: I will
          > not
          > do fundraising and/or source support for anything that relates to what I
          > regard as an older order, or which to my mind represents the antithesis
          > of a
          > healthy, holistic approach to development and peace. I don't mean this to
          > try to "direct" what is decided in Kenya: this is more to make very clear
          > what I myself can and/or cannot do to be helpful and to advance our work.
          >
          > Again, greatest thanks to all, and blessings and love to you and yours at
          > this sacred time, Janet
          >
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          > http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?HolisticHelping
          >
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          > you! http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org
          >
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