Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story

Expand Messages
  • asif.daya@trainerspod.com
    Andrius: This communication could have been done privately, but you did not want it, and besides I found you speaking ill of me in a section to Janet, I could
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 1, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Andrius:

      This communication could have been done privately, but you did not want it, and besides I found you speaking ill of me in a section to Janet, I could NOT find that e-mail that it was taken out from, hence, it must have been a private e-mail.
       
      I have my own business to run and can not do your leadership for you. But when you say that you had to take it on your own since I provided no ideas of worth, that is when one becomes defensive of what they have contributed, and not for credit as you indicate. That must be made very clear. I have dealt with organizations in Kenya and it does not take the amount of money you are spilling in - you have no idea of the cost of living in Kenya.....and what it takes to encourage people to get things done there. So I would stop as soon as possible to compare leadership styles.......yes, you have one, and I have a different perspective. I have and always will credit your organization - that is the people that make up the organization for the fine work they have done. I did not take on this project since I have matters going on from TrainersPod. Hence, I hate being the subject of your e-mail where you describe what a wonderful job you have done but at the expense of cutting me down. If you want to pat yourself on the back - go ahead - but don't try to cut me down in the process. As for not offering Elluminate - it was a matter of the contract being made available - and that is between me and Pamela.
       
      Asif
       

      Please consider the environment before printing this message.
       

      "In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists." - Eric Hoffer

       


      From: Andrius Kulikauskas [mailto:ms@...]
      Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 5:12 AM
      To: holistichelping@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story

      I reply to Asif, but otherwise it's not a very important letter. It's
      tangential. Andrius
      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

      Asif,

      Yes I also recommend collecting cell phones. Who would like to do that?
      It's a great example of an independent project that one can do at their
      own pace, have a wonderful impact one month from now, and not have to
      worry about the immediate day, who is going to be killed or saved.

      Asif, we have been caring about the "invisible folks" since early on.
      Indeed, since we started working with Samwel Kongere. They are the end
      recipients of the help that goes out. We have participants who are
      transporting refugees, feeding them, delivering food to the rural areas.

      I estimate that for about 10,000 USD we have organized and provided some
      resources for at least 100 peacemakers. We have a list of telephones at
      http://www.worknets .org/wiki. cgi?HelpKenyans of at least 70 people who
      have understood the point of the Pyramid of Peace and I am sure there
      are more. I imagine each of them as involving perhaps 10 people to whom
      they send airtime or of whom they ask for help for local projects,
      surely this is how it's done in formal or informal organizations like
      REPACTED, Nafsi Afrika Acrobats, Uyoga, ACTWID KONGADZEM. And when you
      count everybody who got a meal or a ride or attended a community theater
      event that got them through the day after they had been traumatized,
      surely it is 10,000 people or more. Surely every person loved radiates
      that out to 10 people or so, and that's reenforced by the news that's
      carried by the radio shows or the people who rode on the roads we freed
      but especially the word-of-mouth networks, maybe we touched 100,000
      people, and the gift of our love grows as we pass it onward. It's a
      tangible percentage of the 300,000 who have been displaced. And it's
      among the most vulnerable that we are reaching if you consider that we
      are organizing road trips to the Kalenjin areas or to Naivasha where we
      are often the first to go, we are their "first impression" of the help
      they might receive, and when you consider that our distribution
      decisions are made locally by people who have always worked with fewer
      resources than they merit.

      Asif, you imply that the money we go is used by our leaders. I have a
      cruel streak by which I give them just enough so they would have the
      strength to give to others. They have placed their lives at risk, have
      lost brothers, have risked their homes, have been robbed of their phones
      and cameras, have neglected care for their own health, have surely eaten
      irregularly because I know that I have. I also have a pious streak
      whereby I don't touch money that isn't meant for me and so typically I
      end up absorbing the Western Union fees or part of them. I am a giver
      of first resort and last resort. Do you think our leaders are any
      different? That is why I have to command them to use a decent portion
      for themselves, and in that sense I am a commander. I can't imagine how
      we could be distributing better and why would anybody listen to you or
      me or anybody on this matter except as we are able to show that by our
      example. I read in your sentences a lack of empathy for me and others.
      If you loved me, then you would command me to get more sleep and find
      more money for myself, and not haunt me with "invisible folks". That's
      why we publish phone numbers, so that nobody is invisible, or at least,
      we keep getting closer to them.

      Here is how I think life works in Kenya, even though I have never been
      there. I believe that when we rally around Samwel Kongere, we lift his
      entire village, even his island. Hundreds of people benefit from his
      good health. If anything should happen to him, then it would be a
      calamity to his region. Surely he has a churchful of people praying for
      him. These are the invisible folks who I imagine.

      By definition, Minciu Sodas serves the independent thinkers, the people
      who are pushed aside by the system, who are the marginalized, the
      isolated, the excluded. Just look around. Who do you think we identify
      with? Samwel was an "unemployed volunteer" when we came to know him. I
      know several for whom that expression spoke a lot about his mind, his
      heart, his soul and his circumstance.

      Asif, I think at the heart of this is that you want some kind of
      credit. I understand that feeling. I give you credit for establishing
      Trainerspod and for dedicating your life to staying connected to Kenya
      and not letting Kenyans be abandoned by the rest of the world. Yet you
      seek credit for an idea. An idea is like a seed, it is dead by itself,
      and has trillions of copies that are basically the same, and most of
      them stay dead. The wind scatters them and who is the one who cares to
      count which exactly was the seed that sprouted? Can't all the seeds
      rejoice together? Isn't the glory to the wind that placed them? I know
      the wish for credit, it is perhaps healthy. I asked Rachel, when you
      went to Naivasha with your team and engaged the Mungiki, did anybody
      else help? Who do we share credit with for our victory? We must be
      sure to credit them. And she said there was nobody else. We know who
      did it: her team, the Mungikis, her local contacts in Naivasha, and all
      of us together. And we know it is true because Dennis rode safely to
      Nairobi when just shortly before he had to consider so many costly
      alternative routes. We didn't raise money for a helicopter ride for
      Dennis, and we didn't raise money to save Ron Odhiambo's house. We
      raised money to talk to the Mungikis and share it with them and their
      "invisible folks". And I sent the story to dozens of journalists in the
      world and in Lithuania, and thousands of people, but it didn't get
      picked up.

      I will share my story how our distribution system got started. We got a
      letter from Jackton Arija that his family was without food. And what
      could we do? My mind churned and churned. The logic was pretty simple
      - 1) we were able to send money to Dennis in Nakuru, 2) I think he had
      mentioned that he was sending airtime to others, 3) which reminded me of
      a post back from 2005 by Earl Mardle:
      http://www.kn. com.au/networks/ 2005/11/time_ is_money. html
      "The latest wrinkles come via Andrius Kulikauskas and the folks at
      Cyfranogi We see the emergence of a mobile derived electronic currency
      in Malawi where mobile phones are already must-have devices." Which is
      to say, "emergency community currency" has been on our minds for some
      time at our laboratory's working group Cyfranogi led by John Rogers.
      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/cyfranogi/ John created a currency as
      part of his post-tsunami relief work in Sri Lanka, and Stephen
      DeMeulenaere worked on that as well, and Kevin Parcell has dedicated
      enormous energy to such a concept http://homepage. mac.com/forever. net/
      So it was a natural conclusion 1-2-3 for me to explain to Dennis that
      "hey, Jackton can trade cell phone minutes for food". It's natural but
      as I have found in speaking with Kenyans, it needs to be explained to
      people because most of us, even in Kenya, aren't used to thinking as
      traders. Asif, it's strange for me that you want credit for this idea.
      It's the kind of idea that I was hoping you would lead us with, but I
      had to take the lead myself. So what if you came up with it? Where were you?

      Asif, I spent an hour and a half writing this letter. Is that how you
      want me to spend my time? And many people are spending time reading
      this letter, including people in Kenya. But I hope it gives a glimpse
      of how I think things happen.

      Asif, please give us the best of what you have. Please write about your
      deepest value in life, please write about the quetions you would like to
      find answers to, please write about what you would like to achieve.
      This would give for us a great unity that I know lurks within you and
      that we would benefit from.

      Yesterday I spent all day centered around the chat event which Pamela
      set up. It went very well. Really it happened because of my interest
      to honor your work with Pamela and support that. The Elluminate meeting
      never happened, but we did what we could and it went well. Please
      dedicate yourself to helping me likewise. Or please focus on the heart
      that you have to offer, and cultivating your endeavors from start to
      finish, rather than asking for credit for scattered ideas at a
      laboratory where they are free for the taking, and which aren't exactly
      brilliant, either.

      Asif, please let us know what you would like achieve and how we can help
      you.

      Andrius

      Andrius Kulikauskas
      Minciu Sodas
      http://www.ms. lt
      ms@...
      +370 699 30003
      Vilnius, Lithuania

      asif.daya@trainersp od.com wrote:

      > Andrius:
      >
      > I still recommend that we collect cell
      phones to send as many don't
      > have it and that way the money can be
      distributed to the poor via
      > these cell phones. The money is only
      reaching those that have the
      > money to buy a cell phone or a computer,
      but not those that eat out
      > of their huts and raise their own food.
      Where there is only a child in
      > the family taking care of another child
      as is evident in HIV/AIDS
      > family homes. These are the people you have
      missed through your
      > system. Your system although as I have told you has
      done a lot of good
      > it has not been able to help the absolutely
      helpless. These people
      > live in shanty towns and miss meals. They are
      the ones that need the
      > most help. I am not condemning anyone for their
      work - the work has
      > been excellent, but please do not forget the
      invisible folks.
      >
      > Asif
      >
      >
      href="http://www.trainerspod.com/CMS">http://www.trainers pod.com/CMS
      >
      http://www.trainers pod.com/communit y
      >
      http://www.trainers pod.com/info
      >
      >
      Please consider the environment before printing this message.
      >
      >
      > "In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the
      learned find
      > themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that
      no longer
      > exists." - Eric Hoffer
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
      >
      *From:* asif.daya@trainersp od.com [mailto:asif.daya@trainersp od.com]
      >
      *Sent:* Thursday, January 31, 2008 7:10 PM
      > *To:*
      href="mailto:holistichelping%40yahoogroups.com">holistichelping@ yahoogroups. com
      >
      *Subject:* RE: [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story
      >
      > Andrius:
      >
      > I suggested we send cell phones
      since we had heard that one was stolen
      > from our Kenyan colleague and I
      was hearing stories of such. They get
      > stolen since they have "money" in
      them. We all have 2-3 cell phones
      > laying around, as we change
      subscribers. The leadership role was ran
      > by you since you knew the
      players - I don't know the names of ALL our
      > colleagues and their
      e-mails as they are BCC:D. I suggested that we
      > have money sent via Mama
      Mikes that could be exchanged for other
      > favors. That key role was taken
      by you as you put out your e-mail as
      > to where you wanted the money
      mailed to - so I could not do anything
      > about it. So, I am sorry that my
      leadership never materialized - and I
      > left it to the outcome of
      providing suggestions rather than telling
      > people what to do. You also
      did not allow me to say that it was best
      > if you ran the role since you
      have the dataset of people and who knows
      > whom and you wanted to collect
      the monies.
      >
      > Asif
      >
      >
      href="http://www.trainerspod.com/CMS">http://www.trainers pod.com/CMS <http://www.trainers pod.com/CMS>
      >
      http://www.trainers pod.com/communit y
      > <
      href="http://www.trainerspod.com/community">http://www.trainers pod.com/communit y>
      >
      http://www.trainers pod.com/info <http://www.trainers pod.com/info>
      >
      >
      Please consider the environment before printing this message.
      >
      >
      > "In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the
      learned find
      > themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that
      no longer
      > exists." - Eric Hoffer
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
      >
      *From:* Andrius Kulikauskas [mailto:ms@...]
      > *Sent:* Thursday, January 31,
      2008 6:44 PM
      > *To:*
      href="mailto:holistichelping%40yahoogroups.com">holistichelping@ yahoogroups. com;
      >
      href="mailto:fightingpeacefully%40yahoogroups.com">fightingpeacefully@ yahoogroups. com; learningfromeachoth er;
      >
      href="mailto:mendenyo%40yahoogroups.com">mendenyo@yahoogroup s.com
      >
      *Subject:* [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story
      >
      >
      I wrote a bit more to another group and I add that below. I think you
      >
      can understand that it is so strange to live in one's own world, like
      >
      our lab, and then in this other supposedly real world, which just seems
      >
      more and more contrived. I guess there is beauty in that.
      >
      >
      Rachel, Ken, David, Dennis and all our Kenyan leaders, I realized what
      >
      to say to you: Please let us know how we can serve you. Lead us with
      >
      your answer. Minciu Sodas is a laboratory for serving and organizing
      >
      independent thinkers. Andrius
      >
      >
      ------------ --------- --------- --------- -
      >
      > I
      share a letter which I just wrote to Janet Feldman and our Kenyan
      >
      leaders at our Minciu Sodas laboratory. This last month we have worked
      >
      nonstop, raised $10,000 of mostly our own money, and distributed it I
      >
      estimate to probably about 100 peacemakers, 1,000 volunteers and 10,000
      >
      victims. We have shifted focus perhaps a dozen times to cast out any
      >
      inklings towards genocide and we have achieved what no government may
      >
      not even be able to do, which is to win the hopes of the Mungikis and
      >
      open the roads. Dennis Kimambo rode safely today from Nakuru to Nairobi,
      >
      there were no roadblocks. I see among us the inspiring genius of
      >
      Founding Fathers-Mothers- Sisters-Brothers and I have enjoyed a turn at
      > playing General Washington at the computer. We took the opportunity
      to
      > prevent a Rwandan-style genocide. We have the chance to organize
      a
      > national government, for example, by simply asking, In these days,
      Who
      > has "worked for free"? Who has called for peace? Who was
      publicly
      > available? We can set the culture for an entire country. Maybe
      not
      > now, but maybe someday. We are believers because we have seen.
      Knock,
      > knock! We are coming to your neighborhood. Better yet, come to
      ours.
      > Andrius
      >
      >
      ------------ --------- --------- --------- -----
      >
      >
      Andrius Kulikauskas wrote:
      > > Janet if you are around in the next hour
      or so I would gladly
      > strategize
      > > with you regarding the
      next month or so. We had a good chat today with
      > > Rachel, Ken, David
      present and I was emboldened to say we might
      > together
      > > seek
      $100,000 to distribute this month. They are interested to approach
      > >
      Safaricom which makes a lot of sense because I suspect they can "print"
      > > that airtime at almost no cost to them and no loss to traffic,
      either,
      > > because these are volunteers calling volunteers, enemies
      calling
      > > enemies, etc. not the usual calls anybody would
      make.
      > >
      > > I'm thinking about my own role - both as a
      strategy leader and as a
      > fund
      > > organizer - and the basis
      for any such role (Kenyan based or outside
      > > based) and the
      governance mechanism for our pyramid. The current
      > > arrangement is
      unusual but there is something extremely effective about
      > > it, too. I
      suppose it would be good to separate the person (Andrius)
      > > from the
      role (leader) and then have a reasoning why the person has
      > that
      > > role.
      > >
      > > I am delighted by our Kenyan leaders, both
      those whose great stature
      > has
      > > made itself evident, and
      those who have risen to the occassion, and
      > > likewise all around the
      world who have come together as one family.
      > > Pamela McLean is
      collecting our stories. My own personal story is that,
      > > thanks to us
      all, I have had the chance to contribute many of the
      > skills
      > > I have fostered at various times in my life, as if they found their
      > > purpose these days. As a youth, I was an expert chess player, and
      when
      > > I lived with my grandmother, I became skilled at engaging
      gangs. I feel
      > > engaged as a strategic leader, which is the role that
      I originally
      > > intended for Asif when we faced the media blackout
      because of his
      > > extensive knowledge of the Kenyan reality. I woke up
      and he had not
      > > proceeded, so I realized I must take charge myself.
      I immediately
      > > dispatched money to Davis Weddi in Uganda and
      Kiyavilo Msekwa in
      > > Tanzania and with that I started our operations.
      Later that day I spoke
      > > with Asif and asked him, what can we do to
      help? and his suggestion was
      > > that we collect used cellphones in the
      US and ship them to Kenya. At
      > > that moment I concluded that probably
      most people lack a focus on the
      > > logic of immediate solutions. I
      think I have taken a role that was open
      > > to take, and I have played
      with gusto, and best of all, I have
      > shared it
      > > with
      everybody I can, so that we have all gotten a taste of it, which
      > >
      delights my soul, this banquet. I have taken responsibility myself to
      > > confer with others to reevaluate our situation from scratch every
      few
      > > days, to reorder our priorities, and to marshal resources -
      usually our
      > > very own - to make the decisive moves while staying one
      with all. My
      > > story is the dozen or so letters I wrote by which I
      led openly. I am
      > > actually happy to relinquish that role, it is a
      good one.
      > >
      > > I am blessed that our Kenyan leaders have
      achieved great victories. My
      > > own failure or challenge is to engage
      the real enemy which is the
      > status
      > > quo. I can see and you
      can see the miracles that we have witnessed.
      > > But others can't see
      them. They can see the road that is blocked, but
      > > they can't see the
      road that was opened. Welcome to the invisible world.
      > >
      > >
      You know and I know that we could rule a small planet like this as a
      > > paradise, an orchard of thoughts planted by God and cared for by
      us.
      > > You and I know that among us are leaders who can be, could be
      or
      > will be
      > > Presidents of Kenya - and there can be many -
      of a caliber there may
      > not
      > > yet have been. We are today the
      Presidents of Kenya, a Kingdom of
      > > Heaven, where what you believe is
      what happens.
      > >
      > > I don't think the Mungikis will
      disappoint us. I think we may
      > > disappoint them. I think that the
      status quo can't be happy with the
      > > consequences of our work. I
      don't think they will fund us or support
      > > us, but I wish they would.
      I don't have the skill or the keys to unlock
      > > the many locks. I
      don't even know if it is possible for a good person
      > > to pry open
      those doors.
      > >
      > > I invite us to consider this as the first
      steps on the ground of a
      > > twenty year journey to remake our world in
      the spirit that we live
      > > today. I encourage us to dare to play an
      ever more serious game, draw
      > > an ever more serious picture, because
      we can. I am sorry to think that
      > > too soon we will lose, we will hit
      a wall or a ceiling, we will be
      > > repelled, we will fall away. I am
      sorry to know that the good spirit of
      > > Lithuania's independence
      movement is a faint sigh. I am sorry to say
      > > that the America I grew
      up in is a distant place. I thank you for
      > > lifting my heart and I
      listen to you for the pace at which I should
      > > beat. We have
      sprinted, and we will march a long ways, and as I lead
      > > our Minciu
      Sodas laboratory I will add our drum.
      > >
      > > I am glad you
      are in unity. I am excited to hear from your spirit, the
      > > prayer of
      your intentions.
      > >
      > > Janet, I have started by writing to
      you, but have drifted to writing to
      > > our Kenyans and all of us, as
      that is what's on my heart that I would
      > > share with you, and care to
      hear your thoughts. I appreciate your
      > > recent letters which are so
      measured that I see in them your
      > > investigatory mind. That is
      another, longstanding reason to call, which
      > > is to encourage you to
      take a deeper step and engage us in your growth
      > > ongoing. I think in
      these days we've all matured to treasure that.
      > >
      > > I'm
      still up for a bit if you are around.
      > >
      > > Andrius
      > >
      > > Andrius Kulikauskas
      > > Minciu Sodas
      > >
      href="http://www.ms.lt">http://www.ms. lt <http://www.ms. lt>
      > >
      href="mailto:ms%40ms.lt">ms@... <mailto:ms%40ms. lt>
      > > +370 699 30003
      > > Vilnius, Lithuania
      > >
      >
      >

    • Theresa Bakalarz
      Dear All, first, thank you for your answers and your advices! I have been to Kenya before. In summer I was working at the Nyang´oma (bondo) mission in the
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 1, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear All,

        first, thank you for your answers and your advices! I have been to Kenya before. In summer I was working at the Nyang´oma (bondo) mission in the Orphanage.
        I have seen many parts of Kenya and I know the people. If I didnt know Kenya, I dont know if I had this big with to come. I am now just thinking about "my kenyan family" in Nyang´oma. The Orphans and my friends who work there in the mission.
        A friend from there said, situation there is fine. Nothing happend in Bondo for a long time. And there were only demonstrations.
        At the moment I dont really know what to do. I have got one month. In one month I have to be back here (Austria) and ready to go back to university! (Studying african science)

        I still cant decide. I dont know. Maybe I am going to decide at the airport if I go or not.

        Thank you all, Theresa
        -------- Original-Nachricht --------
        > Datum: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 18:40:45 +0100
        > Von: Andrius Kulikauskas <ms@...>
        > An: holistichelping@yahoogroups.com
        > Betreff: [holistichelping] Re: PLEASE help me coming to kenya

        > Janet, Thank you for your advice not to go. Janet is smart.
        > Also, I would like our leaders to learn to take many small risks and
        > avoid big ones.
        > Let's avoid being heroes.
        > However, Theresa I do think it's a very good experience if you can go to
        > Kenya. I think if your plans can be flexible, then you can get
        > enormously valuable practice in taking small risks. If you can't be
        > flexible, then you shouldn't go. You can direct your Kenyan work from
        > Nairobi and then go to Kisumu depending on the situation. Or go to
        > Mombasa. There are parts of Kenya that are completely safe. Am I correct?
        > Andrius
        >
        > Andrius Kulikauskas wrote:
        > > Theresa, I am not in a position to advise you on the safety of
        > > particular areas in Kenya. However, I do want to say that your travel -
        > > should you decide to travel - is important to us. Nairobi is calm.
        > > Kisumu is not so far away. Should you need to stay in Nairobi we will
        > > help you get to Kisumu safely as conditions allow. I will let others
        > > explain better the details but I think if you want to it is possible for
        > > you to go and be of great help.
        > >
        > > My understanding of the general situation is that you should expect
        > > episodes of turmoil bubbling up but the violence is becoming less
        > > excessive, killings are being replaced by evictions, and overall things
        > > are calming down. I expect you will stay with people who can help you
        > > judge the risks and stay safe. You are a young woman so I advise extra
        > > care and caution and adaptation. For example, in Naivasha, Rachel was
        > > instructed to change her jeans for a dress and scarf and she obeyed.
        > > Thank you to Hezekiah Nyaranga for advice which you should listen to
        > > instead of me, and most of all your hosts, but I encourage more advice.
        > > Andrius Kulikauskas, Commander-in-Chief, Pyramid of Peace.
        > > http://www.pyramidofpeace.net
        > >
        > > Theresa Bakalarz wrote:
        > >
        > >> Dear All,
        > >>
        > >> I´m writing very desperate and with tears in my eyes. TOMORROW my
        > flight is going from Vienna (Austria) to Nairobi. After that I have a flight to
        > Kisumu.
        > >>
        > >> I am going to stay near Bondo like I told you before.
        > >>
        > >> My problem now is that my parents dont want me to go. I have planned
        > lots of things, was collecting money (also for Tom) and have lots of
        > t-shirts, pencils and everything. (Beside that I am only 20 years old)
        > >>
        > >> PLEASE! COULD SOMEONE OF YOU WRITE DOWN very clear how situation is in
        > Kisumu, Bondo or Nyang´oma. My parents are fearing that one day Kikuyu are
        > going to attack Nyanza district, and coming to smaller villages. I dont
        > believe in that but my parents are really worrying. THEY ARE WORRYING ABOUT
        > THE FUTURE! WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN TWO WEEKS? ESCALATION? PEACE?
        > >> They think they´re going to loose me.
        > >> I dont know what to tell them anymore. They can just see this horrible
        > things on TV how people run on the streets with machetes and think I am
        > going to stay exactly there.
        > >>
        > >> Bondo is different. I am just worrying about the future. But I believe
        > that things are becoming better soon.
        > >>
        > >> BUT NOW I JUST WANT TO COME TO KENYA and I am just desperate because I
        > do this against the will of my whole Family. My sister was asking me, if I
        > am crazy and how I can do this to my parents. That they have to worry a
        > whole month.
        > >>
        > >> BUT THEY DONT SEE HOW THE SITUATION IS IN BONDO!
        > >>
        > >> Please! Please help me that my parents cool down. I know it can always
        > happen something! But I am never on the roads, I am taking a flight
        > Nairobi-Kisumu.
        > >> I JUST NEED A COMMENT ABOUT THE SITUATION RIGHT NOW!
        > >>
        > >> I run out of my energy. I got very weak in the last time.
        > >> I dont know what I shall do now. I´m helpless.
        > >>
        > >> Yours Theresa
        > >>
        > >>
        > > --------------------------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Dear Theresa,
        > > My name is Hezekiah and I work at Reach-out childrens
        > > centre just afew kilometers out of town.I stay in
        > > kisumu town though i comute evryday to the
        > > community,As concerns to the situation now in
        > > kisumu,it is so much unpredictable and it would be
        > > wrong for me to say calm in this case.The situation
        > > changes ev erday depending on what has happened
        > > especially in the political line.
        > > I have friends in America that support my organization
        > > and they were suppose to be here this friday,one of
        > > them is already in Uganda now and 3 just arrived in
        > > south Africa this morning ,it is painful but i had to
        > > get all of the cancell their trips to kenya because of
        > > what happened in kisumu yesterday,after the death of
        > > another Member of parliament in Eldoret.
        > > I knows Bondo my be calm but i strongly object you
        > > taking the trip now, i recomend that you delay it even
        > > fo 2 weeks and study the situation.
        > > Hezekaih
        > >
        > >
        > > http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?HolisticHelping
        > >
        > > Please note our rule: Each letter sent to the Holistic Helping group
        > enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless it explicitly states otherwise. Thank you!
        > http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >

        --
        GMX FreeMail: 1 GB Postfach, 5 E-Mail-Adressen, 10 Free SMS.
        Alle Infos und kostenlose Anmeldung: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freemail
      • Andrius Kulikauskas
        Janet, Thank you for your advice not to go. Janet is smart. Also, I would like our leaders to learn to take many small risks and avoid big ones. Let s avoid
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 1, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Janet, Thank you for your advice not to go. Janet is smart.
          Also, I would like our leaders to learn to take many small risks and
          avoid big ones.
          Let's avoid being heroes.
          However, Theresa I do think it's a very good experience if you can go to
          Kenya. I think if your plans can be flexible, then you can get
          enormously valuable practice in taking small risks. If you can't be
          flexible, then you shouldn't go. You can direct your Kenyan work from
          Nairobi and then go to Kisumu depending on the situation. Or go to
          Mombasa. There are parts of Kenya that are completely safe. Am I correct?
          Andrius

          Andrius Kulikauskas wrote:
          > Theresa, I am not in a position to advise you on the safety of
          > particular areas in Kenya. However, I do want to say that your travel -
          > should you decide to travel - is important to us. Nairobi is calm.
          > Kisumu is not so far away. Should you need to stay in Nairobi we will
          > help you get to Kisumu safely as conditions allow. I will let others
          > explain better the details but I think if you want to it is possible for
          > you to go and be of great help.
          >
          > My understanding of the general situation is that you should expect
          > episodes of turmoil bubbling up but the violence is becoming less
          > excessive, killings are being replaced by evictions, and overall things
          > are calming down. I expect you will stay with people who can help you
          > judge the risks and stay safe. You are a young woman so I advise extra
          > care and caution and adaptation. For example, in Naivasha, Rachel was
          > instructed to change her jeans for a dress and scarf and she obeyed.
          > Thank you to Hezekiah Nyaranga for advice which you should listen to
          > instead of me, and most of all your hosts, but I encourage more advice.
          > Andrius Kulikauskas, Commander-in-Chief, Pyramid of Peace.
          > http://www.pyramidofpeace.net
          >
          > Theresa Bakalarz wrote:
          >
          >> Dear All,
          >>
          >> I´m writing very desperate and with tears in my eyes. TOMORROW my flight is going from Vienna (Austria) to Nairobi. After that I have a flight to Kisumu.
          >>
          >> I am going to stay near Bondo like I told you before.
          >>
          >> My problem now is that my parents dont want me to go. I have planned lots of things, was collecting money (also for Tom) and have lots of t-shirts, pencils and everything. (Beside that I am only 20 years old)
          >>
          >> PLEASE! COULD SOMEONE OF YOU WRITE DOWN very clear how situation is in Kisumu, Bondo or Nyang´oma. My parents are fearing that one day Kikuyu are going to attack Nyanza district, and coming to smaller villages. I dont believe in that but my parents are really worrying. THEY ARE WORRYING ABOUT THE FUTURE! WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN TWO WEEKS? ESCALATION? PEACE?
          >> They think they´re going to loose me.
          >> I dont know what to tell them anymore. They can just see this horrible things on TV how people run on the streets with machetes and think I am going to stay exactly there.
          >>
          >> Bondo is different. I am just worrying about the future. But I believe that things are becoming better soon.
          >>
          >> BUT NOW I JUST WANT TO COME TO KENYA and I am just desperate because I do this against the will of my whole Family. My sister was asking me, if I am crazy and how I can do this to my parents. That they have to worry a whole month.
          >>
          >> BUT THEY DONT SEE HOW THE SITUATION IS IN BONDO!
          >>
          >> Please! Please help me that my parents cool down. I know it can always happen something! But I am never on the roads, I am taking a flight Nairobi-Kisumu.
          >> I JUST NEED A COMMENT ABOUT THE SITUATION RIGHT NOW!
          >>
          >> I run out of my energy. I got very weak in the last time.
          >> I dont know what I shall do now. I´m helpless.
          >>
          >> Yours Theresa
          >>
          >>
          > --------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > Dear Theresa,
          > My name is Hezekiah and I work at Reach-out childrens
          > centre just afew kilometers out of town.I stay in
          > kisumu town though i comute evryday to the
          > community,As concerns to the situation now in
          > kisumu,it is so much unpredictable and it would be
          > wrong for me to say calm in this case.The situation
          > changes ev erday depending on what has happened
          > especially in the political line.
          > I have friends in America that support my organization
          > and they were suppose to be here this friday,one of
          > them is already in Uganda now and 3 just arrived in
          > south Africa this morning ,it is painful but i had to
          > get all of the cancell their trips to kenya because of
          > what happened in kisumu yesterday,after the death of
          > another Member of parliament in Eldoret.
          > I knows Bondo my be calm but i strongly object you
          > taking the trip now, i recomend that you delay it even
          > fo 2 weeks and study the situation.
          > Hezekaih
          >
          >
          > http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?HolisticHelping
          >
          > Please note our rule: Each letter sent to the Holistic Helping group enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless it explicitly states otherwise. Thank you! http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Janet Feldman
          Dear Asif, Andrius, and All, This email exchange has somewhat strayed too--as did the letter Andrius wrote to me--but I regard what is being said here as
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 1, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Asif, Andrius, and All,
             
            This email exchange has somewhat "strayed" too--as did the letter Andrius wrote to me--but I regard what is being said here as highly relevant and important, though for a different time, when urgencies have somewhat eased. It may be that a different context would be good too, at least for some of the discussion.
             
            Some of the issues being brought up I can relate to myself. We do need to have some discussions about how our mutual work, time, energy, and caring are framed, encouraged, tended, utilized, and acknowledged. Some of the structural issues are crucial to our future as a large and growing entity, one which encompasses both individual focus and group endeavors.
             
            As a woman and as a social activist who has long dreamed of and worked in "alternative" settings, I find I am challenged by some of the way our work is framed and structured. There are other concerns and considerations too, and it would be good to air them.
             
            In a strange but human way, some of what we are feeling and experiencing is akin to what is happening in Kenya. This is the territory of conflict, which can yield "opportunity" as well as "risk".
             
            Thanks very much for the wonderful work everyone is doing, and blessings to you all! Janet
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 10:57 AM
            Subject: RE: [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story

            Andrius:

            This communication could have been done privately, but you did not want it, and besides I found you speaking ill of me in a section to Janet, I could NOT find that e-mail that it was taken out from, hence, it must have been a private e-mail.
             
            I have my own business to run and can not do your leadership for you. But when you say that you had to take it on your own since I provided no ideas of worth, that is when one becomes defensive of what they have contributed, and not for credit as you indicate. That must be made very clear. I have dealt with organizations in Kenya and it does not take the amount of money you are spilling in - you have no idea of the cost of living in Kenya.....and what it takes to encourage people to get things done there. So I would stop as soon as possible to compare leadership styles.......yes, you have one, and I have a different perspective. I have and always will credit your organization - that is the people that make up the organization for the fine work they have done. I did not take on this project since I have matters going on from TrainersPod. Hence, I hate being the subject of your e-mail where you describe what a wonderful job you have done but at the expense of cutting me down. If you want to pat yourself on the back - go ahead - but don't try to cut me down in the process. As for not offering Elluminate - it was a matter of the contract being made available - and that is between me and Pamela.
             
            Asif
             

            Please consider the environment before printing this message.
             

            "In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists." - Eric Hoffer

             


            From: Andrius Kulikauskas [mailto:ms@...]
            Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 5:12 AM
            To: holistichelping@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story

            I reply to Asif, but otherwise it's not a very important letter. It's
            tangential. Andrius
            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

            Asif,

            Yes I also recommend collecting cell phones. Who would like to do that?
            It's a great example of an independent project that one can do at their
            own pace, have a wonderful impact one month from now, and not have to
            worry about the immediate day, who is going to be killed or saved.

            Asif, we have been caring about the "invisible folks" since early on.
            Indeed, since we started working with Samwel Kongere. They are the end
            recipients of the help that goes out. We have participants who are
            transporting refugees, feeding them, delivering food to the rural areas.

            I estimate that for about 10,000 USD we have organized and provided some
            resources for at least 100 peacemakers. We have a list of telephones at
            http://www.worknets .org/wiki. cgi?HelpKenyans of at least 70 people who
            have understood the point of the Pyramid of Peace and I am sure there
            are more. I imagine each of them as involving perhaps 10 people to whom
            they send airtime or of whom they ask for help for local projects,
            surely this is how it's done in formal or informal organizations like
            REPACTED, Nafsi Afrika Acrobats, Uyoga, ACTWID KONGADZEM. And when you
            count everybody who got a meal or a ride or attended a community theater
            event that got them through the day after they had been traumatized,
            surely it is 10,000 people or more. Surely every person loved radiates
            that out to 10 people or so, and that's reenforced by the news that's
            carried by the radio shows or the people who rode on the roads we freed
            but especially the word-of-mouth networks, maybe we touched 100,000
            people, and the gift of our love grows as we pass it onward. It's a
            tangible percentage of the 300,000 who have been displaced. And it's
            among the most vulnerable that we are reaching if you consider that we
            are organizing road trips to the Kalenjin areas or to Naivasha where we
            are often the first to go, we are their "first impression" of the help
            they might receive, and when you consider that our distribution
            decisions are made locally by people who have always worked with fewer
            resources than they merit.

            Asif, you imply that the money we go is used by our leaders. I have a
            cruel streak by which I give them just enough so they would have the
            strength to give to others. They have placed their lives at risk, have
            lost brothers, have risked their homes, have been robbed of their phones
            and cameras, have neglected care for their own health, have surely eaten
            irregularly because I know that I have. I also have a pious streak
            whereby I don't touch money that isn't meant for me and so typically I
            end up absorbing the Western Union fees or part of them. I am a giver
            of first resort and last resort. Do you think our leaders are any
            different? That is why I have to command them to use a decent portion
            for themselves, and in that sense I am a commander. I can't imagine how
            we could be distributing better and why would anybody listen to you or
            me or anybody on this matter except as we are able to show that by our
            example. I read in your sentences a lack of empathy for me and others.
            If you loved me, then you would command me to get more sleep and find
            more money for myself, and not haunt me with "invisible folks". That's
            why we publish phone numbers, so that nobody is invisible, or at least,
            we keep getting closer to them.

            Here is how I think life works in Kenya, even though I have never been
            there. I believe that when we rally around Samwel Kongere, we lift his
            entire village, even his island. Hundreds of people benefit from his
            good health. If anything should happen to him, then it would be a
            calamity to his region. Surely he has a churchful of people praying for
            him. These are the invisible folks who I imagine.

            By definition, Minciu Sodas serves the independent thinkers, the people
            who are pushed aside by the system, who are the marginalized, the
            isolated, the excluded. Just look around. Who do you think we identify
            with? Samwel was an "unemployed volunteer" when we came to know him. I
            know several for whom that expression spoke a lot about his mind, his
            heart, his soul and his circumstance.

            Asif, I think at the heart of this is that you want some kind of
            credit. I understand that feeling. I give you credit for establishing
            Trainerspod and for dedicating your life to staying connected to Kenya
            and not letting Kenyans be abandoned by the rest of the world. Yet you
            seek credit for an idea. An idea is like a seed, it is dead by itself,
            and has trillions of copies that are basically the same, and most of
            them stay dead. The wind scatters them and who is the one who cares to
            count which exactly was the seed that sprouted? Can't all the seeds
            rejoice together? Isn't the glory to the wind that placed them? I know
            the wish for credit, it is perhaps healthy. I asked Rachel, when you
            went to Naivasha with your team and engaged the Mungiki, did anybody
            else help? Who do we share credit with for our victory? We must be
            sure to credit them. And she said there was nobody else. We know who
            did it: her team, the Mungikis, her local contacts in Naivasha, and all
            of us together. And we know it is true because Dennis rode safely to
            Nairobi when just shortly before he had to consider so many costly
            alternative routes. We didn't raise money for a helicopter ride for
            Dennis, and we didn't raise money to save Ron Odhiambo's house. We
            raised money to talk to the Mungikis and share it with them and their
            "invisible folks". And I sent the story to dozens of journalists in the
            world and in Lithuania, and thousands of people, but it didn't get
            picked up.

            I will share my story how our distribution system got started. We got a
            letter from Jackton Arija that his family was without food. And what
            could we do? My mind churned and churned. The logic was pretty simple
            - 1) we were able to send money to Dennis in Nakuru, 2) I think he had
            mentioned that he was sending airtime to others, 3) which reminded me of
            a post back from 2005 by Earl Mardle:
            http://www.kn. com.au/networks/ 2005/11/time_ is_money. html
            "The latest wrinkles come via Andrius Kulikauskas and the folks at
            Cyfranogi We see the emergence of a mobile derived electronic currency
            in Malawi where mobile phones are already must-have devices." Which is
            to say, "emergency community currency" has been on our minds for some
            time at our laboratory's working group Cyfranogi led by John Rogers.
            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/cyfranogi/ John created a currency as
            part of his post-tsunami relief work in Sri Lanka, and Stephen
            DeMeulenaere worked on that as well, and Kevin Parcell has dedicated
            enormous energy to such a concept http://homepage. mac.com/forever. net/
            So it was a natural conclusion 1-2-3 for me to explain to Dennis that
            "hey, Jackton can trade cell phone minutes for food". It's natural but
            as I have found in speaking with Kenyans, it needs to be explained to
            people because most of us, even in Kenya, aren't used to thinking as
            traders. Asif, it's strange for me that you want credit for this idea.
            It's the kind of idea that I was hoping you would lead us with, but I
            had to take the lead myself. So what if you came up with it? Where were you?

            Asif, I spent an hour and a half writing this letter. Is that how you
            want me to spend my time? And many people are spending time reading
            this letter, including people in Kenya. But I hope it gives a glimpse
            of how I think things happen.

            Asif, please give us the best of what you have. Please write about your
            deepest value in life, please write about the quetions you would like to
            find answers to, please write about what you would like to achieve.
            This would give for us a great unity that I know lurks within you and
            that we would benefit from.

            Yesterday I spent all day centered around the chat event which Pamela
            set up. It went very well. Really it happened because of my interest
            to honor your work with Pamela and support that. The Elluminate meeting
            never happened, but we did what we could and it went well. Please
            dedicate yourself to helping me likewise. Or please focus on the heart
            that you have to offer, and cultivating your endeavors from start to
            finish, rather than asking for credit for scattered ideas at a
            laboratory where they are free for the taking, and which aren't exactly
            brilliant, either.

            Asif, please let us know what you would like achieve and how we can help
            you.

            Andrius

            Andrius Kulikauskas
            Minciu Sodas
            http://www.ms. lt
            ms@...
            +370 699 30003
            Vilnius, Lithuania

            asif.daya@trainersp od.com wrote:
            > Andrius:
            >
            > I still recommend that we collect cell phones to send as many don't
            > have it and that way the money can be distributed to the poor via
            > these cell phones. The money is only reaching those that have the
            > money to buy a cell phone or a computer, but not those that eat out
            > of their huts and raise their own food. Where there is only a child in
            > the family taking care of another child as is evident in HIV/AIDS
            > family homes. These are the people you have missed through your
            > system. Your system although as I have told you has done a lot of good
            > it has not been able to help the absolutely helpless. These people
            > live in shanty towns and miss meals. They are the ones that need the
            > most help. I am not condemning anyone for their work - the work has
            > been excellent, but please do not forget the invisible folks.
            >
            > Asif
            >
            > http://www.trainers pod.com/CMS
            > http://www.trainers pod.com/communit y
            > http://www.trainers pod.com/info
            >
            > Please consider the environment before printing this message.
            >
            >
            > "In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the learned find
            > themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer
            > exists." - Eric Hoffer
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
            > *From:* asif.daya@trainersp od.com [mailto:asif.daya@trainersp od.com]
            > *Sent:* Thursday, January 31, 2008 7:10 PM
            > *To:* holistichelping@ yahoogroups. com
            > *Subject:* RE: [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story
            >
            > Andrius:
            >
            > I suggested we send cell phones since we had heard that one was stolen
            > from our Kenyan colleague and I was hearing stories of such. They get
            > stolen since they have "money" in them. We all have 2-3 cell phones
            > laying around, as we change subscribers. The leadership role was ran
            > by you since you knew the players - I don't know the names of ALL our
            > colleagues and their e-mails as they are BCC:D. I suggested that we
            > have money sent via Mama Mikes that could be exchanged for other
            > favors. That key role was taken by you as you put out your e-mail as
            > to where you wanted the money mailed to - so I could not do anything
            > about it. So, I am sorry that my leadership never materialized - and I
            > left it to the outcome of providing suggestions rather than telling
            > people what to do. You also did not allow me to say that it was best
            > if you ran the role since you have the dataset of people and who knows
            > whom and you wanted to collect the monies.
            >
            > Asif
            >
            > http://www.trainers pod.com/CMS <http://www.trainers pod.com/CMS>
            > http://www.trainers pod.com/communit y
            > <http://www.trainers pod.com/communit y>
            > http://www.trainers pod.com/info <http://www.trainers pod.com/info>
            >
            > Please consider the environment before printing this message.
            >
            >
            > "In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the learned find
            > themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer
            > exists." - Eric Hoffer
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
            > *From:* Andrius Kulikauskas [mailto:ms@...]
            > *Sent:* Thursday, January 31, 2008 6:44 PM
            > *To:* holistichelping@ yahoogroups. com;
            > fightingpeacefully@ yahoogroups. com; learningfromeachoth er;
            > mendenyo@yahoogroup s.com
            > *Subject:* [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story
            >
            > I wrote a bit more to another group and I add that below. I think you
            > can understand that it is so strange to live in one's own world, like
            > our lab, and then in this other supposedly real world, which just seems
            > more and more contrived. I guess there is beauty in that.
            >
            > Rachel, Ken, David, Dennis and all our Kenyan leaders, I realized what
            > to say to you: Please let us know how we can serve you. Lead us with
            > your answer. Minciu Sodas is a laboratory for serving and organizing
            > independent thinkers. Andrius
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- --------- -
            >
            > I share a letter which I just wrote to Janet Feldman and our Kenyan
            > leaders at our Minciu Sodas laboratory. This last month we have worked
            > nonstop, raised $10,000 of mostly our own money, and distributed it I
            > estimate to probably about 100 peacemakers, 1,000 volunteers and 10,000
            > victims. We have shifted focus perhaps a dozen times to cast out any
            > inklings towards genocide and we have achieved what no government may
            > not even be able to do, which is to win the hopes of the Mungikis and
            > open the roads. Dennis Kimambo rode safely today from Nakuru to Nairobi,
            > there were no roadblocks. I see among us the inspiring genius of
            > Founding Fathers-Mothers- Sisters-Brothers and I have enjoyed a turn at
            > playing General Washington at the computer. We took the opportunity to
            > prevent a Rwandan-style genocide. We have the chance to organize a
            > national government, for example, by simply asking, In these days, Who
            > has "worked for free"? Who has called for peace? Who was publicly
            > available? We can set the culture for an entire country. Maybe not
            > now, but maybe someday. We are believers because we have seen. Knock,
            > knock! We are coming to your neighborhood. Better yet, come to ours.
            > Andrius
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- --------- -----
            >
            > Andrius Kulikauskas wrote:
            > > Janet if you are around in the next hour or so I would gladly
            > strategize
            > > with you regarding the next month or so. We had a good chat today with
            > > Rachel, Ken, David present and I was emboldened to say we might
            > together
            > > seek $100,000 to distribute this month. They are interested to approach
            > > Safaricom which makes a lot of sense because I suspect they can "print"
            > > that airtime at almost no cost to them and no loss to traffic, either,
            > > because these are volunteers calling volunteers, enemies calling
            > > enemies, etc. not the usual calls anybody would make.
            > >
            > > I'm thinking about my own role - both as a strategy leader and as a
            > fund
            > > organizer - and the basis for any such role (Kenyan based or outside
            > > based) and the governance mechanism for our pyramid. The current
            > > arrangement is unusual but there is something extremely effective about
            > > it, too. I suppose it would be good to separate the person (Andrius)
            > > from the role (leader) and then have a reasoning why the person has
            > that
            > > role.
            > >
            > > I am delighted by our Kenyan leaders, both those whose great stature
            > has
            > > made itself evident, and those who have risen to the occassion, and
            > > likewise all around the world who have come together as one family.
            > > Pamela McLean is collecting our stories. My own personal story is that,
            > > thanks to us all, I have had the chance to contribute many of the
            > skills
            > > I have fostered at various times in my life, as if they found their
            > > purpose these days. As a youth, I was an expert chess player, and when
            > > I lived with my grandmother, I became skilled at engaging gangs. I feel
            > > engaged as a strategic leader, which is the role that I originally
            > > intended for Asif when we faced the media blackout because of his
            > > extensive knowledge of the Kenyan reality. I woke up and he had not
            > > proceeded, so I realized I must take charge myself. I immediately
            > > dispatched money to Davis Weddi in Uganda and Kiyavilo Msekwa in
            > > Tanzania and with that I started our operations. Later that day I spoke
            > > with Asif and asked him, what can we do to help? and his suggestion was
            > > that we collect used cellphones in the US and ship them to Kenya. At
            > > that moment I concluded that probably most people lack a focus on the
            > > logic of immediate solutions. I think I have taken a role that was open
            > > to take, and I have played with gusto, and best of all, I have
            > shared it
            > > with everybody I can, so that we have all gotten a taste of it, which
            > > delights my soul, this banquet. I have taken responsibility myself to
            > > confer with others to reevaluate our situation from scratch every few
            > > days, to reorder our priorities, and to marshal resources - usually our
            > > very own - to make the decisive moves while staying one with all. My
            > > story is the dozen or so letters I wrote by which I led openly. I am
            > > actually happy to relinquish that role, it is a good one.
            > >
            > > I am blessed that our Kenyan leaders have achieved great victories. My
            > > own failure or challenge is to engage the real enemy which is the
            > status
            > > quo. I can see and you can see the miracles that we have witnessed.
            > > But others can't see them. They can see the road that is blocked, but
            > > they can't see the road that was opened. Welcome to the invisible world.
            > >
            > > You know and I know that we could rule a small planet like this as a
            > > paradise, an orchard of thoughts planted by God and cared for by us.
            > > You and I know that among us are leaders who can be, could be or
            > will be
            > > Presidents of Kenya - and there can be many - of a caliber there may
            > not
            > > yet have been. We are today the Presidents of Kenya, a Kingdom of
            > > Heaven, where what you believe is what happens.
            > >
            > > I don't think the Mungikis will disappoint us. I think we may
            > > disappoint them. I think that the status quo can't be happy with the
            > > consequences of our work. I don't think they will fund us or support
            > > us, but I wish they would. I don't have the skill or the keys to unlock
            > > the many locks. I don't even know if it is possible for a good person
            > > to pry open those doors.
            > >
            > > I invite us to consider this as the first steps on the ground of a
            > > twenty year journey to remake our world in the spirit that we live
            > > today. I encourage us to dare to play an ever more serious game, draw
            > > an ever more serious picture, because we can. I am sorry to think that
            > > too soon we will lose, we will hit a wall or a ceiling, we will be
            > > repelled, we will fall away. I am sorry to know that the good spirit of
            > > Lithuania's independence movement is a faint sigh. I am sorry to say
            > > that the America I grew up in is a distant place. I thank you for
            > > lifting my heart and I listen to you for the pace at which I should
            > > beat. We have sprinted, and we will march a long ways, and as I lead
            > > our Minciu Sodas laboratory I will add our drum.
            > >
            > > I am glad you are in unity. I am excited to hear from your spirit, the
            > > prayer of your intentions.
            > >
            > > Janet, I have started by writing to you, but have drifted to writing to
            > > our Kenyans and all of us, as that is what's on my heart that I would
            > > share with you, and care to hear your thoughts. I appreciate your
            > > recent letters which are so measured that I see in them your
            > > investigatory mind. That is another, longstanding reason to call, which
            > > is to encourage you to take a deeper step and engage us in your growth
            > > ongoing. I think in these days we've all matured to treasure that.
            > >
            > > I'm still up for a bit if you are around.
            > >
            > > Andrius
            > >
            > > Andrius Kulikauskas
            > > Minciu Sodas
            > > http://www.ms. lt <http://www.ms. lt>
            > > ms@... <mailto:ms%40ms. lt>
            > > +370 699 30003
            > > Vilnius, Lithuania
            > >
            >
            >

          • asif.daya@trainerspod.com
            Janet: You are right. This should be aired after the conflict. I was just angered by the statement that cut me down and had to respond. It was part of a long
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 1, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Janet:

              You are right. This should be aired after the conflict. I was just angered by the statement that cut me down and had to respond. It was part of a long e-mail buried within. Anyways - there is always tension when a large group works and people are doing their best to assist and it's all going so fast that it gets lost in the noise. We have been having an extra huge amount of e-mail to contend with and there is a lot going on - all for the betterment of Kenya and it's people. This organization has done a lot of good for Kenyans.....and I am moved by that.
              We at TrainersPod are doing other projects in Kenya and they involve using local NGOs and Churches etc. e.g We provide them with the latest news so that they are aware where they need to go to get people that are needy and using my connections at Hospitals and Pharmacies to get them the right help. So our focus is very different. It was like when I sent connections of a Hospital and a Pharmacy that Sam could get to.....although he choose a different route. That's what TrainersPod is involved in.
               
              Asif
               

              Please consider the environment before printing this message.
               

              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists." - Eric Hoffer

               


              From: Janet Feldman [mailto:kaippg@...]
              Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:19 PM
              To: holistichelping@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [holistichelping] Asif, Andrius, All: Important Issues, Different Timing

              Dear Asif, Andrius, and All,
               
              This email exchange has somewhat "strayed" too--as did the letter Andrius wrote to me--but I regard what is being said here as highly relevant and important, though for a different time, when urgencies have somewhat eased. It may be that a different context would be good too, at least for some of the discussion.
               
              Some of the issues being brought up I can relate to myself. We do need to have some discussions about how our mutual work, time, energy, and caring are framed, encouraged, tended, utilized, and acknowledged. Some of the structural issues are crucial to our future as a large and growing entity, one which encompasses both individual focus and group endeavors.
               
              As a woman and as a social activist who has long dreamed of and worked in "alternative" settings, I find I am challenged by some of the way our work is framed and structured. There are other concerns and considerations too, and it would be good to air them.
               
              In a strange but human way, some of what we are feeling and experiencing is akin to what is happening in Kenya. This is the territory of conflict, which can yield "opportunity" as well as "risk".
               
              Thanks very much for the wonderful work everyone is doing, and blessings to you all! Janet
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 10:57 AM
              Subject: RE: [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story

              Andrius:

              This communication could have been done privately, but you did not want it, and besides I found you speaking ill of me in a section to Janet, I could NOT find that e-mail that it was taken out from, hence, it must have been a private e-mail.
               
              I have my own business to run and can not do your leadership for you. But when you say that you had to take it on your own since I provided no ideas of worth, that is when one becomes defensive of what they have contributed, and not for credit as you indicate. That must be made very clear. I have dealt with organizations in Kenya and it does not take the amount of money you are spilling in - you have no idea of the cost of living in Kenya.....and what it takes to encourage people to get things done there. So I would stop as soon as possible to compare leadership styles...... .yes, you have one, and I have a different perspective. I have and always will credit your organization - that is the people that make up the organization for the fine work they have done. I did not take on this project since I have matters going on from TrainersPod. Hence, I hate being the subject of your e-mail where you describe what a wonderful job you have done but at the expense of cutting me down. If you want to pat yourself on the back - go ahead - but don't try to cut me down in the process. As for not offering Elluminate - it was a matter of the contract being made available - and that is between me and Pamela.
               
              Asif
               

              Please consider the environment before printing this message.
               

              "In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists." - Eric Hoffer

               


              From: Andrius Kulikauskas [mailto:ms@ms. lt]
              Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 5:12 AM
              To: holistichelping@ yahoogroups. com
              Subject: [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story

              I reply to Asif, but otherwise it's not a very important letter. It's
              tangential. Andrius
              ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

              Asif,

              Yes I also recommend collecting cell phones. Who would like to do that?
              It's a great example of an independent project that one can do at their
              own pace, have a wonderful impact one month from now, and not have to
              worry about the immediate day, who is going to be killed or saved.

              Asif, we have been caring about the "invisible folks" since early on.
              Indeed, since we started working with Samwel Kongere. They are the end
              recipients of the help that goes out. We have participants who are
              transporting refugees, feeding them, delivering food to the rural areas.

              I estimate that for about 10,000 USD we have organized and provided some
              resources for at least 100 peacemakers. We have a list of telephones at
              http://www.worknets .org/wiki. cgi?HelpKenyans of at least 70 people who
              have understood the point of the Pyramid of Peace and I am sure there
              are more. I imagine each of them as involving perhaps 10 people to whom
              they send airtime or of whom they ask for help for local projects,
              surely this is how it's done in formal or informal organizations like
              REPACTED, Nafsi Afrika Acrobats, Uyoga, ACTWID KONGADZEM. And when you
              count everybody who got a meal or a ride or attended a community theater
              event that got them through the day after they had been traumatized,
              surely it is 10,000 people or more. Surely every person loved radiates
              that out to 10 people or so, and that's reenforced by the news that's
              carried by the radio shows or the people who rode on the roads we freed
              but especially the word-of-mouth networks, maybe we touched 100,000
              people, and the gift of our love grows as we pass it onward. It's a
              tangible percentage of the 300,000 who have been displaced. And it's
              among the most vulnerable that we are reaching if you consider that we
              are organizing road trips to the Kalenjin areas or to Naivasha where we
              are often the first to go, we are their "first impression" of the help
              they might receive, and when you consider that our distribution
              decisions are made locally by people who have always worked with fewer
              resources than they merit.

              Asif, you imply that the money we go is used by our leaders. I have a
              cruel streak by which I give them just enough so they would have the
              strength to give to others. They have placed their lives at risk, have
              lost brothers, have risked their homes, have been robbed of their phones
              and cameras, have neglected care for their own health, have surely eaten
              irregularly because I know that I have. I also have a pious streak
              whereby I don't touch money that isn't meant for me and so typically I
              end up absorbing the Western Union fees or part of them. I am a giver
              of first resort and last resort. Do you think our leaders are any
              different? That is why I have to command them to use a decent portion
              for themselves, and in that sense I am a commander. I can't imagine how
              we could be distributing better and why would anybody listen to you or
              me or anybody on this matter except as we are able to show that by our
              example. I read in your sentences a lack of empathy for me and others.
              If you loved me, then you would command me to get more sleep and find
              more money for myself, and not haunt me with "invisible folks". That's
              why we publish phone numbers, so that nobody is invisible, or at least,
              we keep getting closer to them.

              Here is how I think life works in Kenya, even though I have never been
              there. I believe that when we rally around Samwel Kongere, we lift his
              entire village, even his island. Hundreds of people benefit from his
              good health. If anything should happen to him, then it would be a
              calamity to his region. Surely he has a churchful of people praying for
              him. These are the invisible folks who I imagine.

              By definition, Minciu Sodas serves the independent thinkers, the people
              who are pushed aside by the system, who are the marginalized, the
              isolated, the excluded. Just look around. Who do you think we identify
              with? Samwel was an "unemployed volunteer" when we came to know him. I
              know several for whom that expression spoke a lot about his mind, his
              heart, his soul and his circumstance.

              Asif, I think at the heart of this is that you want some kind of
              credit. I understand that feeling. I give you credit for establishing
              Trainerspod and for dedicating your life to staying connected to Kenya
              and not letting Kenyans be abandoned by the rest of the world. Yet you
              seek credit for an idea. An idea is like a seed, it is dead by itself,
              and has trillions of copies that are basically the same, and most of
              them stay dead. The wind scatters them and who is the one who cares to
              count which exactly was the seed that sprouted? Can't all the seeds
              rejoice together? Isn't the glory to the wind that placed them? I know
              the wish for credit, it is perhaps healthy. I asked Rachel, when you
              went to Naivasha with your team and engaged the Mungiki, did anybody
              else help? Who do we share credit with for our victory? We must be
              sure to credit them. And she said there was nobody else. We know who
              did it: her team, the Mungikis, her local contacts in Naivasha, and all
              of us together. And we know it is true because Dennis rode safely to
              Nairobi when just shortly before he had to consider so many costly
              alternative routes. We didn't raise money for a helicopter ride for
              Dennis, and we didn't raise money to save Ron Odhiambo's house. We
              raised money to talk to the Mungikis and share it with them and their
              "invisible folks". And I sent the story to dozens of journalists in the
              world and in Lithuania, and thousands of people, but it didn't get
              picked up.

              I will share my story how our distribution system got started. We got a
              letter from Jackton Arija that his family was without food. And what
              could we do? My mind churned and churned. The logic was pretty simple
              - 1) we were able to send money to Dennis in Nakuru, 2) I think he had
              mentioned that he was sending airtime to others, 3) which reminded me of
              a post back from 2005 by Earl Mardle:
              http://www.kn. com.au/networks/ 2005/11/time_ is_money. html
              "The latest wrinkles come via Andrius Kulikauskas and the folks at
              Cyfranogi We see the emergence of a mobile derived electronic currency
              in Malawi where mobile phones are already must-have devices." Which is
              to say, "emergency community currency" has been on our minds for some
              time at our laboratory's working group Cyfranogi led by John Rogers.
              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/cyfranogi/ John created a currency as
              part of his post-tsunami relief work in Sri Lanka, and Stephen
              DeMeulenaere worked on that as well, and Kevin Parcell has dedicated
              enormous energy to such a concept http://homepage. mac.com/forever. net/
              So it was a natural conclusion 1-2-3 for me to explain to Dennis that
              "hey, Jackton can trade cell phone minutes for food". It's natural but
              as I have found in speaking with Kenyans, it needs to be explained to
              people because most of us, even in Kenya, aren't used to thinking as
              traders. Asif, it's strange for me that you want credit for this idea.
              It's the kind of idea that I was hoping you would lead us with, but I
              had to take the lead myself. So what if you came up with it? Where were you?

              Asif, I spent an hour and a half writing this letter. Is that how you
              want me to spend my time? And many people are spending time reading
              this letter, including people in Kenya. But I hope it gives a glimpse
              of how I think things happen.

              Asif, please give us the best of what you have. Please write about your
              deepest value in life, please write about the quetions you would like to
              find answers to, please write about what you would like to achieve.
              This would give for us a great unity that I know lurks within you and
              that we would benefit from.

              Yesterday I spent all day centered around the chat event which Pamela
              set up. It went very well. Really it happened because of my interest
              to honor your work with Pamela and support that. The Elluminate meeting
              never happened, but we did what we could and it went well. Please
              dedicate yourself to helping me likewise. Or please focus on the heart
              that you have to offer, and cultivating your endeavors from start to
              finish, rather than asking for credit for scattered ideas at a
              laboratory where they are free for the taking, and which aren't exactly
              brilliant, either.

              Asif, please let us know what you would like achieve and how we can help
              you.

              Andrius

              Andrius Kulikauskas
              Minciu Sodas
              http://www.ms. lt
              ms@...
              +370 699 30003
              Vilnius, Lithuania

              asif.daya@trainersp od.com wrote:
              > Andrius:
              >
              > I still recommend that we collect cell phones to send as many don't
              > have it and that way the money can be distributed to the poor via
              > these cell phones. The money is only reaching those that have the
              > money to buy a cell phone or a computer, but not those that eat out
              > of their huts and raise their own food. Where there is only a child in
              > the family taking care of another child as is evident in HIV/AIDS
              > family homes. These are the people you have missed through your
              > system. Your system although as I have told you has done a lot of good
              > it has not been able to help the absolutely helpless. These people
              > live in shanty towns and miss meals. They are the ones that need the
              > most help. I am not condemning anyone for their work - the work has
              > been excellent, but please do not forget the invisible folks.
              >
              > Asif
              >
              > http://www.trainers pod.com/CMS
              > http://www.trainers pod.com/communit y
              > http://www.trainers pod.com/info
              >
              > Please consider the environment before printing this message.
              >
              >
              > "In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the learned find
              > themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer
              > exists." - Eric Hoffer
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
              > *From:* asif.daya@trainersp od.com [mailto:asif.daya@trainersp od.com]
              > *Sent:* Thursday, January 31, 2008 7:10 PM
              > *To:* holistichelping@ yahoogroups. com
              > *Subject:* RE: [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story
              >
              > Andrius:
              >
              > I suggested we send cell phones since we had heard that one was stolen
              > from our Kenyan colleague and I was hearing stories of such. They get
              > stolen since they have "money" in them. We all have 2-3 cell phones
              > laying around, as we change subscribers. The leadership role was ran
              > by you since you knew the players - I don't know the names of ALL our
              > colleagues and their e-mails as they are BCC:D. I suggested that we
              > have money sent via Mama Mikes that could be exchanged for other
              > favors. That key role was taken by you as you put out your e-mail as
              > to where you wanted the money mailed to - so I could not do anything
              > about it. So, I am sorry that my leadership never materialized - and I
              > left it to the outcome of providing suggestions rather than telling
              > people what to do. You also did not allow me to say that it was best
              > if you ran the role since you have the dataset of people and who knows
              > whom and you wanted to collect the monies.
              >
              > Asif
              >
              > http://www.trainers pod.com/CMS <http://www.trainers pod.com/CMS>
              > http://www.trainers pod.com/communit y
              > <http://www.trainers pod.com/communit y>
              > http://www.trainers pod.com/info <http://www.trainers pod.com/info>
              >
              > Please consider the environment before printing this message.
              >
              >
              > "In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the learned find
              > themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer
              > exists." - Eric Hoffer
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
              > *From:* Andrius Kulikauskas [mailto:ms@...]
              > *Sent:* Thursday, January 31, 2008 6:44 PM
              > *To:* holistichelping@ yahoogroups. com;
              > fightingpeacefully@ yahoogroups. com; learningfromeachoth er;
              > mendenyo@yahoogroup s.com
              > *Subject:* [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story
              >
              > I wrote a bit more to another group and I add that below. I think you
              > can understand that it is so strange to live in one's own world, like
              > our lab, and then in this other supposedly real world, which just seems
              > more and more contrived. I guess there is beauty in that.
              >
              > Rachel, Ken, David, Dennis and all our Kenyan leaders, I realized what
              > to say to you: Please let us know how we can serve you. Lead us with
              > your answer. Minciu Sodas is a laboratory for serving and organizing
              > independent thinkers. Andrius
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- --------- -
              >
              > I share a letter which I just wrote to Janet Feldman and our Kenyan
              > leaders at our Minciu Sodas laboratory. This last month we have worked
              > nonstop, raised $10,000 of mostly our own money, and distributed it I
              > estimate to probably about 100 peacemakers, 1,000 volunteers and 10,000
              > victims. We have shifted focus perhaps a dozen times to cast out any
              > inklings towards genocide and we have achieved what no government may
              > not even be able to do, which is to win the hopes of the Mungikis and
              > open the roads. Dennis Kimambo rode safely today from Nakuru to Nairobi,
              > there were no roadblocks. I see among us the inspiring genius of
              > Founding Fathers-Mothers- Sisters-Brothers and I have enjoyed a turn at
              > playing General Washington at the computer. We took the opportunity to
              > prevent a Rwandan-style genocide. We have the chance to organize a
              > national government, for example, by simply asking, In these days, Who
              > has "worked for free"? Who has called for peace? Who was publicly
              > available? We can set the culture for an entire country. Maybe not
              > now, but maybe someday. We are believers because we have seen. Knock,
              > knock! We are coming to your neighborhood. Better yet, come to ours.
              > Andrius
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- --------- -----
              >
              > Andrius Kulikauskas wrote:
              > > Janet if you are around in the next hour or so I would gladly
              > strategize
              > > with you regarding the next month or so. We had a good chat today with
              > > Rachel, Ken, David present and I was emboldened to say we might
              > together
              > > seek $100,000 to distribute this month. They are interested to approach
              > > Safaricom which makes a lot of sense because I suspect they can "print"
              > > that airtime at almost no cost to them and no loss to traffic, either,
              > > because these are volunteers calling volunteers, enemies calling
              > > enemies, etc. not the usual calls anybody would make.
              > >
              > > I'm thinking about my own role - both as a strategy leader and as a
              > fund
              > > organizer - and the basis for any such role (Kenyan based or outside
              > > based) and the governance mechanism for our pyramid. The current
              > > arrangement is unusual but there is something extremely effective about
              > > it, too. I suppose it would be good to separate the person (Andrius)
              > > from the role (leader) and then have a reasoning why the person has
              > that
              > > role.
              > >
              > > I am delighted by our Kenyan leaders, both those whose great stature
              > has
              > > made itself evident, and those who have risen to the occassion, and
              > > likewise all around the world who have come together as one family.
              > > Pamela McLean is collecting our stories. My own personal story is that,
              > > thanks to us all, I have had the chance to contribute many of the
              > skills
              > > I have fostered at various times in my life, as if they found their
              > > purpose these days. As a youth, I was an expert chess player, and when
              > > I lived with my grandmother, I became skilled at engaging gangs. I feel
              > > engaged as a strategic leader, which is the role that I originally
              > > intended for Asif when we faced the media blackout because of his
              > > extensive knowledge of the Kenyan reality. I woke up and he had not
              > > proceeded, so I realized I must take charge myself. I immediately
              > > dispatched money to Davis Weddi in Uganda and Kiyavilo Msekwa in
              > > Tanzania and with that I started our operations. Later that day I spoke
              > > with Asif and asked him, what can we do to help? and his suggestion was
              > > that we collect used cellphones in the US and ship them to Kenya. At
              > > that moment I concluded that probably most people lack a focus on the
              > > logic of immediate solutions. I think I have taken a role that was open
              > > to take, and I have played with gusto, and best of all, I have
              > shared it
              > > with everybody I can, so that we have all gotten a taste of it, which
              > > delights my soul, this banquet. I have taken responsibility myself to
              > > confer with others to reevaluate our situation from scratch every few
              > > days, to reorder our priorities, and to marshal resources - usually our
              > > very own - to make the decisive moves while staying one with all. My
              > > story is the dozen or so letters I wrote by which I led openly. I am
              > > actually happy to relinquish that role, it is a good one.
              > >
              > > I am blessed that our Kenyan leaders have achieved great victories. My
              > > own failure or challenge is to engage the real enemy which is the
              > status
              > > quo. I can see and you can see the miracles that we have witnessed.
              > > But others can't see them. They can see the road that is blocked, but
              > > they can't see the road that was opened. Welcome to the invisible world.
              > >
              > > You know and I know that we could rule a small planet like this as a
              > > paradise, an orchard of thoughts planted by God and cared for by us.
              > > You and I know that among us are leaders who can be, could be or
              > will be
              > > Presidents of Kenya - and there can be many - of a caliber there may
              > not
              > > yet have been. We are today the Presidents of Kenya, a Kingdom of
              > > Heaven, where what you believe is what happens.
              > >
              > > I don't think the Mungikis will disappoint us. I think we may
              > > disappoint them. I think that the status quo can't be happy with the
              > > consequences of our work. I don't think they will fund us or support
              > > us, but I wish they would. I don't have the skill or the keys to unlock
              > > the many locks. I don't even know if it is possible for a good person
              > > to pry open those doors.
              > >
              > > I invite us to consider this as the first steps on the ground of a
              > > twenty year journey to remake our world in the spirit that we live
              > > today. I encourage us to dare to play an ever more serious game, draw
              > > an ever more serious picture, because we can. I am sorry to think that
              > > too soon we will lose, we will hit a wall or a ceiling, we will be
              > > repelled, we will fall away. I am sorry to know that the good spirit of
              > > Lithuania's independence movement is a faint sigh. I am sorry to say
              > > that the America I grew up in is a distant place. I thank you for
              > > lifting my heart and I listen to you for the pace at which I should
              > > beat. We have sprinted, and we will march a long ways, and as I lead
              > > our Minciu Sodas laboratory I will add our drum.
              > >
              > > I am glad you are in unity. I am excited to hear from your spirit, the
              > > prayer of your intentions.
              > >
              > > Janet, I have started by writing to you, but have drifted to writing to
              > > our Kenyans and all of us, as that is what's on my heart that I would
              > > share with you, and care to hear your thoughts. I appreciate your
              > > recent letters which are so measured that I see in them your
              > > investigatory mind. That is another, longstanding reason to call, which
              > > is to encourage you to take a deeper step and engage us in your growth
              > > ongoing. I think in these days we've all matured to treasure that.
              > >
              > > I'm still up for a bit if you are around.
              > >
              > > Andrius
              > >
              > > Andrius Kulikauskas
              > > Minciu Sodas
              > > http://www.ms. lt <http://www.ms. lt>
              > > ms@... <mailto:ms%40ms. lt>
              > > +370 699 30003
              > > Vilnius, Lithuania
              > >
              >
              >

            • Andrius Kulikauskas
              Asif, Janet, Thank you for your letters. I look forward to reflecting and ongoing learning how to work together and organize a shared culture. Andrius
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 1, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Asif, Janet,
                Thank you for your letters.
                I look forward to reflecting and ongoing learning how to work together
                and organize a shared culture.
                Andrius

                asif.daya@... wrote:
                > Janet:
                >
                > You are right. This should be aired after the conflict. I was just
                > angered by the statement that cut me down and had to respond. It was
                > part of a long e-mail buried within. Anyways - there is always tension
                > when a large group works and people are doing their best to assist and
                > it's all going so fast that it gets lost in the noise. We have been
                > having an extra huge amount of e-mail to contend with and there is a
                > lot going on - all for the betterment of Kenya and it's people. This
                > organization has done a lot of good for Kenyans.....and I am moved by
                > that.
                > We at TrainersPod are doing other projects in Kenya and they involve
                > using local NGOs and Churches etc. e.g We provide them with the latest
                > news so that they are aware where they need to go to get people that
                > are needy and using my connections at Hospitals and Pharmacies to get
                > them the right help. So our focus is very different. It was like when
                > I sent connections of a Hospital and a Pharmacy that Sam could get
                > to.....although he choose a different route. That's what TrainersPod
                > is involved in.
                >
                > Asif
                >
                > http://www.trainerspod.com/CMS
                > http://www.trainerspod.com/community
                > http://www.trainerspod.com/info
                >
                > Please consider the environment before printing this message.
                >
                >
                > "In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the learned find
                > themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer
                > exists." - Eric Hoffer
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > *From:* Janet Feldman [mailto:kaippg@...]
                > *Sent:* Friday, February 01, 2008 3:19 PM
                > *To:* holistichelping@yahoogroups.com
                > *Subject:* [holistichelping] Asif, Andrius, All: Important Issues,
                > Different Timing
                >
                > Dear Asif, Andrius, and All,
                >
                > This email exchange has somewhat "strayed" too--as did the letter
                > Andrius wrote to me--but I regard what is being said here as highly
                > relevant and important, though for a different time, when urgencies
                > have somewhat eased. It may be that a different context would be good
                > too, at least for some of the discussion.
                >
                > Some of the issues being brought up I can relate to myself. We do need
                > to have some discussions about how our mutual work, time, energy, and
                > caring are framed, encouraged, tended, utilized, and acknowledged.
                > Some of the structural issues are crucial to our future as a large and
                > growing entity, one which encompasses both individual focus and group
                > endeavors.
                >
                > As a woman and as a social activist who has long dreamed of and worked
                > in "alternative" settings, I find I am challenged by some of the way
                > our work is framed and structured. There are other concerns and
                > considerations too, and it would be good to air them.
                >
                > In a strange but human way, some of what we are feeling and
                > experiencing is akin to what is happening in Kenya. This is the
                > territory of conflict, which can yield "opportunity" as well as "risk".
                >
                > Thanks very much for the wonderful work everyone is doing, and
                > blessings to you all! Janet
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > *From:* asif.daya@... <mailto:asif.daya@...>
                > *To:* holistichelping@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:holistichelping@yahoogroups.com>
                > *Sent:* Friday, February 01, 2008 10:57 AM
                > *Subject:* RE: [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story
                >
                > Andrius:
                >
                > This communication could have been done privately, but you did not
                > want it, and besides I found you speaking ill of me in a section
                > to Janet, I could NOT find that e-mail that it was taken out from,
                > hence, it must have been a private e-mail.
                >
                > I have my own business to run and can not do your leadership for
                > you. But when you say that you had to take it on your own since I
                > provided no ideas of worth, that is when one becomes defensive of
                > what they have contributed, and not for credit as you indicate.
                > That must be made very clear. I have dealt with organizations in
                > Kenya and it does not take the amount of money you are spilling in
                > - you have no idea of the cost of living in Kenya.....and what it
                > takes to encourage people to get things done there. So I would
                > stop as soon as possible to compare leadership styles.......yes,
                > you have one, and I have a different perspective. I have and
                > always will credit your organization - that is the people that
                > make up the organization for the fine work they have done. I did
                > not take on this project since I have matters going on from
                > TrainersPod. Hence, I hate being the subject of your e-mail where
                > you describe what a wonderful job you have done but at the expense
                > of cutting me down. If you want to pat yourself on the back - go
                > ahead - but don't try to cut me down in the process. As for not
                > offering Elluminate - it was a matter of the contract being made
                > available - and that is between me and Pamela.
                >
                > Asif
                >
                > http://www.trainerspod.com/CMS <http://www.trainerspod.com/CMS>
                > http://www.trainerspod.com/community
                > <http://www.trainerspod.com/community>
                > http://www.trainerspod.com/info <http://www.trainerspod.com/info>
                >
                > Please consider the environment before printing this message.
                >
                >
                > "In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the learned
                > find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no
                > longer exists." - Eric Hoffer
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > *From:* Andrius Kulikauskas [mailto:ms@...]
                > *Sent:* Friday, February 01, 2008 5:12 AM
                > *To:* holistichelping@yahoogroups.com
                > *Subject:* [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story
                >
                > I reply to Asif, but otherwise it's not a very important letter. It's
                > tangential. Andrius
                > ----------------------------------------------------------
                >
                > Asif,
                >
                > Yes I also recommend collecting cell phones. Who would like to do
                > that?
                > It's a great example of an independent project that one can do at
                > their
                > own pace, have a wonderful impact one month from now, and not have to
                > worry about the immediate day, who is going to be killed or saved.
                >
                > Asif, we have been caring about the "invisible folks" since early on.
                > Indeed, since we started working with Samwel Kongere. They are the
                > end
                > recipients of the help that goes out. We have participants who are
                > transporting refugees, feeding them, delivering food to the rural
                > areas.
                >
                > I estimate that for about 10,000 USD we have organized and
                > provided some
                > resources for at least 100 peacemakers. We have a list of
                > telephones at
                > http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?HelpKenyans
                > <http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?HelpKenyans> of at least 70
                > people who
                > have understood the point of the Pyramid of Peace and I am sure there
                > are more. I imagine each of them as involving perhaps 10 people to
                > whom
                > they send airtime or of whom they ask for help for local projects,
                > surely this is how it's done in formal or informal organizations like
                > REPACTED, Nafsi Afrika Acrobats, Uyoga, ACTWID KONGADZEM. And when
                > you
                > count everybody who got a meal or a ride or attended a community
                > theater
                > event that got them through the day after they had been traumatized,
                > surely it is 10,000 people or more. Surely every person loved
                > radiates
                > that out to 10 people or so, and that's reenforced by the news that's
                > carried by the radio shows or the people who rode on the roads we
                > freed
                > but especially the word-of-mouth networks, maybe we touched 100,000
                > people, and the gift of our love grows as we pass it onward. It's a
                > tangible percentage of the 300,000 who have been displaced. And it's
                > among the most vulnerable that we are reaching if you consider
                > that we
                > are organizing road trips to the Kalenjin areas or to Naivasha
                > where we
                > are often the first to go, we are their "first impression" of the
                > help
                > they might receive, and when you consider that our distribution
                > decisions are made locally by people who have always worked with
                > fewer
                > resources than they merit.
                >
                > Asif, you imply that the money we go is used by our leaders. I have a
                > cruel streak by which I give them just enough so they would have the
                > strength to give to others. They have placed their lives at risk,
                > have
                > lost brothers, have risked their homes, have been robbed of their
                > phones
                > and cameras, have neglected care for their own health, have surely
                > eaten
                > irregularly because I know that I have. I also have a pious streak
                > whereby I don't touch money that isn't meant for me and so
                > typically I
                > end up absorbing the Western Union fees or part of them. I am a giver
                > of first resort and last resort. Do you think our leaders are any
                > different? That is why I have to command them to use a decent portion
                > for themselves, and in that sense I am a commander. I can't
                > imagine how
                > we could be distributing better and why would anybody listen to
                > you or
                > me or anybody on this matter except as we are able to show that by
                > our
                > example. I read in your sentences a lack of empathy for me and
                > others.
                > If you loved me, then you would command me to get more sleep and find
                > more money for myself, and not haunt me with "invisible folks".
                > That's
                > why we publish phone numbers, so that nobody is invisible, or at
                > least,
                > we keep getting closer to them.
                >
                > Here is how I think life works in Kenya, even though I have never
                > been
                > there. I believe that when we rally around Samwel Kongere, we lift
                > his
                > entire village, even his island. Hundreds of people benefit from his
                > good health. If anything should happen to him, then it would be a
                > calamity to his region. Surely he has a churchful of people
                > praying for
                > him. These are the invisible folks who I imagine.
                >
                > By definition, Minciu Sodas serves the independent thinkers, the
                > people
                > who are pushed aside by the system, who are the marginalized, the
                > isolated, the excluded. Just look around. Who do you think we
                > identify
                > with? Samwel was an "unemployed volunteer" when we came to know
                > him. I
                > know several for whom that expression spoke a lot about his mind, his
                > heart, his soul and his circumstance.
                >
                > Asif, I think at the heart of this is that you want some kind of
                > credit. I understand that feeling. I give you credit for establishing
                > Trainerspod and for dedicating your life to staying connected to
                > Kenya
                > and not letting Kenyans be abandoned by the rest of the world. Yet
                > you
                > seek credit for an idea. An idea is like a seed, it is dead by
                > itself,
                > and has trillions of copies that are basically the same, and most of
                > them stay dead. The wind scatters them and who is the one who
                > cares to
                > count which exactly was the seed that sprouted? Can't all the seeds
                > rejoice together? Isn't the glory to the wind that placed them? I
                > know
                > the wish for credit, it is perhaps healthy. I asked Rachel, when you
                > went to Naivasha with your team and engaged the Mungiki, did anybody
                > else help? Who do we share credit with for our victory? We must be
                > sure to credit them. And she said there was nobody else. We know who
                > did it: her team, the Mungikis, her local contacts in Naivasha,
                > and all
                > of us together. And we know it is true because Dennis rode safely to
                > Nairobi when just shortly before he had to consider so many costly
                > alternative routes. We didn't raise money for a helicopter ride for
                > Dennis, and we didn't raise money to save Ron Odhiambo's house. We
                > raised money to talk to the Mungikis and share it with them and their
                > "invisible folks". And I sent the story to dozens of journalists
                > in the
                > world and in Lithuania, and thousands of people, but it didn't get
                > picked up.
                >
                > I will share my story how our distribution system got started. We
                > got a
                > letter from Jackton Arija that his family was without food. And what
                > could we do? My mind churned and churned. The logic was pretty simple
                > - 1) we were able to send money to Dennis in Nakuru, 2) I think he
                > had
                > mentioned that he was sending airtime to others, 3) which reminded
                > me of
                > a post back from 2005 by Earl Mardle:
                > http://www.kn.com.au/networks/2005/11/time_is_money.html
                > <http://www.kn.com.au/networks/2005/11/time_is_money.html>
                > "The latest wrinkles come via Andrius Kulikauskas and the folks at
                > Cyfranogi We see the emergence of a mobile derived electronic
                > currency
                > in Malawi where mobile phones are already must-have devices."
                > Which is
                > to say, "emergency community currency" has been on our minds for some
                > time at our laboratory's working group Cyfranogi led by John Rogers.
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cyfranogi/
                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cyfranogi/> John created a currency as
                > part of his post-tsunami relief work in Sri Lanka, and Stephen
                > DeMeulenaere worked on that as well, and Kevin Parcell has dedicated
                > enormous energy to such a concept
                > http://homepage.mac.com/forever.net/
                > <http://homepage.mac.com/forever.net/>
                > So it was a natural conclusion 1-2-3 for me to explain to Dennis that
                > "hey, Jackton can trade cell phone minutes for food". It's natural
                > but
                > as I have found in speaking with Kenyans, it needs to be explained to
                > people because most of us, even in Kenya, aren't used to thinking as
                > traders. Asif, it's strange for me that you want credit for this
                > idea.
                > It's the kind of idea that I was hoping you would lead us with, but I
                > had to take the lead myself. So what if you came up with it? Where
                > were you?
                >
                > Asif, I spent an hour and a half writing this letter. Is that how you
                > want me to spend my time? And many people are spending time reading
                > this letter, including people in Kenya. But I hope it gives a glimpse
                > of how I think things happen.
                >
                > Asif, please give us the best of what you have. Please write about
                > your
                > deepest value in life, please write about the quetions you would
                > like to
                > find answers to, please write about what you would like to achieve.
                > This would give for us a great unity that I know lurks within you and
                > that we would benefit from.
                >
                > Yesterday I spent all day centered around the chat event which Pamela
                > set up. It went very well. Really it happened because of my interest
                > to honor your work with Pamela and support that. The Elluminate
                > meeting
                > never happened, but we did what we could and it went well. Please
                > dedicate yourself to helping me likewise. Or please focus on the
                > heart
                > that you have to offer, and cultivating your endeavors from start to
                > finish, rather than asking for credit for scattered ideas at a
                > laboratory where they are free for the taking, and which aren't
                > exactly
                > brilliant, either.
                >
                > Asif, please let us know what you would like achieve and how we
                > can help
                > you.
                >
                > Andrius
                >
                > Andrius Kulikauskas
                > Minciu Sodas
                > http://www.ms.lt <http://www.ms.lt>
                > ms@... <mailto:ms%40ms.lt>
                > +370 699 30003
                > Vilnius, Lithuania
                >
                > asif.daya@... <mailto:asif.daya%40trainerspod.com> wrote:
                > > Andrius:
                > >
                > > I still recommend that we collect cell phones to send as many don't
                > > have it and that way the money can be distributed to the poor via
                > > these cell phones. The money is only reaching those that have the
                > > money to buy a cell phone or a computer, but not those that eat out
                > > of their huts and raise their own food. Where there is only a
                > child in
                > > the family taking care of another child as is evident in HIV/AIDS
                > > family homes. These are the people you have missed through your
                > > system. Your system although as I have told you has done a lot
                > of good
                > > it has not been able to help the absolutely helpless. These people
                > > live in shanty towns and miss meals. They are the ones that need
                > the
                > > most help. I am not condemning anyone for their work - the work has
                > > been excellent, but please do not forget the invisible folks.
                > >
                > > Asif
                > >
                > > http://www.trainerspod.com/CMS <http://www.trainerspod.com/CMS>
                > > http://www.trainerspod.com/community
                > <http://www.trainerspod.com/community>
                > > http://www.trainerspod.com/info <http://www.trainerspod.com/info>
                > >
                > > Please consider the environment before printing this message.
                > >
                > >
                > > "In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the
                > learned find
                > > themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer
                > > exists." - Eric Hoffer
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                > > *From:* asif.daya@...
                > <mailto:asif.daya%40trainerspod.com>
                > [mailto:asif.daya@...
                > <mailto:asif.daya%40trainerspod.com>]
                > > *Sent:* Thursday, January 31, 2008 7:10 PM
                > > *To:* holistichelping@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:holistichelping%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > *Subject:* RE: [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story
                > >
                > > Andrius:
                > >
                > > I suggested we send cell phones since we had heard that one was
                > stolen
                > > from our Kenyan colleague and I was hearing stories of such.
                > They get
                > > stolen since they have "money" in them. We all have 2-3 cell phones
                > > laying around, as we change subscribers. The leadership role was
                > ran
                > > by you since you knew the players - I don't know the names of
                > ALL our
                > > colleagues and their e-mails as they are BCC:D. I suggested that we
                > > have money sent via Mama Mikes that could be exchanged for other
                > > favors. That key role was taken by you as you put out your
                > e-mail as
                > > to where you wanted the money mailed to - so I could not do
                > anything
                > > about it. So, I am sorry that my leadership never materialized -
                > and I
                > > left it to the outcome of providing suggestions rather than telling
                > > people what to do. You also did not allow me to say that it was
                > best
                > > if you ran the role since you have the dataset of people and who
                > knows
                > > whom and you wanted to collect the monies.
                > >
                > > Asif
                > >
                > > http://www.trainerspod.com/CMS <http://www.trainerspod.com/CMS>
                > <http://www.trainerspod.com/CMS <http://www.trainerspod.com/CMS>>
                > > http://www.trainerspod.com/community
                > <http://www.trainerspod.com/community>
                > > <http://www.trainerspod.com/community
                > <http://www.trainerspod.com/community>>
                > > http://www.trainerspod.com/info
                > <http://www.trainerspod.com/info> <http://www.trainerspod.com/info
                > <http://www.trainerspod.com/info>>
                > >
                > > Please consider the environment before printing this message.
                > >
                > >
                > > "In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the
                > learned find
                > > themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer
                > > exists." - Eric Hoffer
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                > > *From:* Andrius Kulikauskas [mailto:ms@... <mailto:ms%40ms.lt>]
                > > *Sent:* Thursday, January 31, 2008 6:44 PM
                > > *To:* holistichelping@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:holistichelping%40yahoogroups.com>;
                > > fightingpeacefully@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:fightingpeacefully%40yahoogroups.com>; learningfromeachother;
                > > mendenyo@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mendenyo%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > *Subject:* [holistichelping] Re: Janet, may I call you? My story
                > >
                > > I wrote a bit more to another group and I add that below. I
                > think you
                > > can understand that it is so strange to live in one's own world,
                > like
                > > our lab, and then in this other supposedly real world, which
                > just seems
                > > more and more contrived. I guess there is beauty in that.
                > >
                > > Rachel, Ken, David, Dennis and all our Kenyan leaders, I
                > realized what
                > > to say to you: Please let us know how we can serve you. Lead us with
                > > your answer. Minciu Sodas is a laboratory for serving and organizing
                > > independent thinkers. Andrius
                > >
                > > ----------------------------------------
                > >
                > > I share a letter which I just wrote to Janet Feldman and our Kenyan
                > > leaders at our Minciu Sodas laboratory. This last month we have
                > worked
                > > nonstop, raised $10,000 of mostly our own money, and distributed
                > it I
                > > estimate to probably about 100 peacemakers, 1,000 volunteers and
                > 10,000
                > > victims. We have shifted focus perhaps a dozen times to cast out any
                > > inklings towards genocide and we have achieved what no
                > government may
                > > not even be able to do, which is to win the hopes of the
                > Mungikis and
                > > open the roads. Dennis Kimambo rode safely today from Nakuru to
                > Nairobi,
                > > there were no roadblocks. I see among us the inspiring genius of
                > > Founding Fathers-Mothers-Sisters-Brothers and I have enjoyed a
                > turn at
                > > playing General Washington at the computer. We took the
                > opportunity to
                > > prevent a Rwandan-style genocide. We have the chance to organize a
                > > national government, for example, by simply asking, In these
                > days, Who
                > > has "worked for free"? Who has called for peace? Who was publicly
                > > available? We can set the culture for an entire country. Maybe not
                > > now, but maybe someday. We are believers because we have seen.
                > Knock,
                > > knock! We are coming to your neighborhood. Better yet, come to ours.
                > > Andrius
                > >
                > > --------------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Andrius Kulikauskas wrote:
                > > > Janet if you are around in the next hour or so I would gladly
                > > strategize
                > > > with you regarding the next month or so. We had a good chat
                > today with
                > > > Rachel, Ken, David present and I was emboldened to say we might
                > > together
                > > > seek $100,000 to distribute this month. They are interested to
                > approach
                > > > Safaricom which makes a lot of sense because I suspect they
                > can "print"
                > > > that airtime at almost no cost to them and no loss to traffic,
                > either,
                > > > because these are volunteers calling volunteers, enemies calling
                > > > enemies, etc. not the usual calls anybody would make.
                > > >
                > > > I'm thinking about my own role - both as a strategy leader and
                > as a
                > > fund
                > > > organizer - and the basis for any such role (Kenyan based or
                > outside
                > > > based) and the governance mechanism for our pyramid. The current
                > > > arrangement is unusual but there is something extremely
                > effective about
                > > > it, too. I suppose it would be good to separate the person
                > (Andrius)
                > > > from the role (leader) and then have a reasoning why the
                > person has
                > > that
                > > > role.
                > > >
                > > > I am delighted by our Kenyan leaders, both those whose great
                > stature
                > > has
                > > > made itself evident, and those who have risen to the
                > occassion, and
                > > > likewise all around the world who have come together as one
                > family.
                > > > Pamela McLean is collecting our stories. My own personal story
                > is that,
                > > > thanks to us all, I have had the chance to contribute many of the
                > > skills
                > > > I have fostered at various times in my life, as if they found
                > their
                > > > purpose these days. As a youth, I was an expert chess player,
                > and when
                > > > I lived with my grandmother, I became skilled at engaging
                > gangs. I feel
                > > > engaged as a strategic leader, which is the role that I originally
                > > > intended for Asif when we faced the media blackout because of his
                > > > extensive knowledge of the Kenyan reality. I woke up and he
                > had not
                > > > proceeded, so I realized I must take charge myself. I immediately
                > > > dispatched money to Davis Weddi in Uganda and Kiyavilo Msekwa in
                > > > Tanzania and with that I started our operations. Later that
                > day I spoke
                > > > with Asif and asked him, what can we do to help? and his
                > suggestion was
                > > > that we collect used cellphones in the US and ship them to
                > Kenya. At
                > > > that moment I concluded that probably most people lack a focus
                > on the
                > > > logic of immediate solutions. I think I have taken a role that
                > was open
                > > > to take, and I have played with gusto, and best of all, I have
                > > shared it
                > > > with everybody I can, so that we have all gotten a taste of
                > it, which
                > > > delights my soul, this banquet. I have taken responsibility
                > myself to
                > > > confer with others to reevaluate our situation from scratch
                > every few
                > > > days, to reorder our priorities, and to marshal resources -
                > usually our
                > > > very own - to make the decisive moves while staying one with
                > all. My
                > > > story is the dozen or so letters I wrote by which I led
                > openly. I am
                > > > actually happy to relinquish that role, it is a good one.
                > > >
                > > > I am blessed that our Kenyan leaders have achieved great
                > victories. My
                > > > own failure or challenge is to engage the real enemy which is the
                > > status
                > > > quo. I can see and you can see the miracles that we have
                > witnessed.
                > > > But others can't see them. They can see the road that is
                > blocked, but
                > > > they can't see the road that was opened. Welcome to the
                > invisible world.
                > > >
                > > > You know and I know that we could rule a small planet like
                > this as a
                > > > paradise, an orchard of thoughts planted by God and cared for
                > by us.
                > > > You and I know that among us are leaders who can be, could be or
                > > will be
                > > > Presidents of Kenya - and there can be many - of a caliber
                > there may
                > > not
                > > > yet have been. We are today the Presidents of Kenya, a Kingdom of
                > > > Heaven, where what you believe is what happens.
                > > >
                > > > I don't think the Mungikis will disappoint us. I think we may
                > > > disappoint them. I think that the status quo can't be happy
                > with the
                > > > consequences of our work. I don't think they will fund us or
                > support
                > > > us, but I wish they would. I don't have the skill or the keys
                > to unlock
                > > > the many locks. I don't even know if it is possible for a good
                > person
                > > > to pry open those doors.
                > > >
                > > > I invite us to consider this as the first steps on the ground of a
                > > > twenty year journey to remake our world in the spirit that we live
                > > > today. I encourage us to dare to play an ever more serious
                > game, draw
                > > > an ever more serious picture, because we can. I am sorry to
                > think that
                > > > too soon we will lose, we will hit a wall or a ceiling, we will be
                > > > repelled, we will fall away. I am sorry to know that the good
                > spirit of
                > > > Lithuania's independence movement is a faint sigh. I am sorry
                > to say
                > > > that the America I grew up in is a distant place. I thank you for
                > > > lifting my heart and I listen to you for the pace at which I
                > should
                > > > beat. We have sprinted, and we will march a long ways, and as
                > I lead
                > > > our Minciu Sodas laboratory I will add our drum.
                > > >
                > > > I am glad you are in unity. I am excited to hear from your
                > spirit, the
                > > > prayer of your intentions.
                > > >
                > > > Janet, I have started by writing to you, but have drifted to
                > writing to
                > > > our Kenyans and all of us, as that is what's on my heart that
                > I would
                > > > share with you, and care to hear your thoughts. I appreciate your
                > > > recent letters which are so measured that I see in them your
                > > > investigatory mind. That is another, longstanding reason to
                > call, which
                > > > is to encourage you to take a deeper step and engage us in
                > your growth
                > > > ongoing. I think in these days we've all matured to treasure that.
                > > >
                > > > I'm still up for a bit if you are around.
                > > >
                > > > Andrius
                > > >
                > > > Andrius Kulikauskas
                > > > Minciu Sodas
                > > > http://www.ms.lt <http://www.ms.lt> <http://www.ms.lt
                > <http://www.ms.lt>>
                > > > ms@... <mailto:ms%40ms.lt> <mailto:ms%40ms.lt>
                > > > +370 699 30003
                > > > Vilnius, Lithuania
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.