Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [holistichelping] Gift Nodes for a Network of Gift Communities

Expand Messages
  • Stella
    hi Andrius, Sam, we re experimenting with a new currency to aid gift-apreciations amongst the permaculture network, we ve called the new currency Permis, for
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 26, 2007
      hi Andrius, Sam,

      we're experimenting with a new currency to aid gift-apreciations
      amongst the permaculture network, we've called the new currency Permis,
      for 'permission' (to do thing for the good of everyone) and for
      'permaculture' too.

      It is an integral part of the design of the new Chaordic Permaculture
      Institute pilot
      - not translated from the spanish yet, sorry .... hopefully soon!

      this flowed out of several other projects we've been working on from
      time, and keeping in mind a very old network currency which was
      developed by our permaculture pioneers in England (in the 80s I
      believe)which was called the Stars system. We've improved on the
      design to try to avoid the pitfalls it had and came up with the

      We now have 72 profiles started in this new initiative (58 on the
      english site, 14 on the spanish site)! and we are also applying for a
      Global Voices fund as we heard that some of our youngsters want to go
      travelling across Spain to visit permaculture projects and pioneers,
      and they could multi-function their visits with giving wiki workshops
      whilst setting up new profiles. We're asking some cash towards travel
      and admin costs, but the bulk of the costs will be payed in Permies.

      I don´t remember if I wrote about this initiative, but basically the
      idea of the Chaordic Permaculture Institute started in 2003, when a
      proposal for a new design was made because we realized that our massive
      world-lab of permie activists was thriving through personal friendships
      where it worked well .. and stuck where people failed to get introduced
      ... amongst other things.

      it´s very similar to our labs here so ... the obvious question is,

      ¿¿how can we interconnect our initiatives??



      El 26/11/2007, a las 11:19, <ms@...> escribió:

      > Sam,
      > I'm very glad for the steps that we're taking to work together to
      > create an
      > online environment for for facilitating our work on all many of
      > endeavors. I
      > look forward to working with you, Steve Bosserman and others as
      > organizers,
      > innovators and software developers. I will write to our working groups
      > Working In Parallel (online environments) and Cyfranogi (community
      > currency)
      > and Holistic Helping (especially in Africa) and thank you if you might
      > share
      > my letter with the P2Presearch list and our groups converse.
      > I'm appreciating more and more your interests in setting up the Gift
      > nodes
      > across a variety of wikis. What we could do then is to create a page
      > that
      > aggregates information from such pages. That page could help us
      > understand
      > which community is active and/or interested in giving and receiving
      > what
      > kinds of gifts. Then we could engage wiki communities but also work
      > with
      > community currency communities (which often have such directories) and
      > with
      > global villages (which I think often have a strong gift ethic).
      > One of my purposes is to encourage outreach amongst communities so
      > that we
      > have a wider economy. I'm starting to think that the economy is a
      > spectrum of
      > relationships from "strangers" to "friends". A different kind of
      > instrument
      > is effective at each point on the spectrum. So, for example, the
      > usual money
      > is a very effective way of engaging, including total strangers, but it
      > can
      > also make total strangers out of friends. A LETS system is a great
      > way of
      > meeting people and making friends in a community, but it might destroy
      > a
      > civic organization run by volunteers. A timebank is a great way to
      > enroll
      > new volunteers, but it might cause unhelpful friction if a family ran
      > itself
      > with one. There are different kinds of gift giving and they are
      > appropriate
      > I suppose for different kinds of relationships. Love is at the
      > extreme of
      > the spectrum, because it is an unconditional giving, as when parents
      > give to
      > their children or spouses to each other or we help those who can't help
      > themselves.
      > I have noticed that our Minciu Sodas laboratory http://www.ms.lt has a
      > vibrant economy of gift giving http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Gifts
      > These
      > are generally gifts from one person to another. They are quite
      > voluntary.
      > They express a wish to give and receive help. They come with an
      > expectation
      > that the gift will be used well. I encourage that this also be
      > structured as
      > "work" so that the expectation is indeed satisfied and not left
      > hanging, and
      > so that the giver also grows by being engaged in the purpose of the
      > work. So
      > often (but not always) it is the gift of paid work. I think our
      > participants
      > appreciate that our laboratory attracts wonderful people who need and
      > want
      > help. But generally I think our givers know that if the gift is used
      > well,
      > then by definition, others will benefit - even if they don't benefit
      > directly, or anybody else within our lab, for that matter. I will add
      > that
      > each such gift makes our lab more valuable for our participants.
      > Our laboratory is a business and the hardest part is always finding
      > new work
      > and new clients. I don't want to "work on speculation" unless that is
      > on
      > projects of strategic interest to myself and our lab. I am developing
      > certain capabilities that might be valuable to others. Here is a
      > simple
      > example: for our lab, I have downloaded 20,000 of our Yahoo groups
      > letters
      > and am making that available for distribution on USB flash drives. I
      > could
      > do something similar for other organizations. Perhaps they would pay
      > me, but
      > I imagine it would be hard to make a business of it. Instead,
      > however, I
      > might do that for others as a "gift". That would make economic sense
      > for me
      > if I knew that they would acknowledge it as a gift they want and likely
      > reciprocate with a gift - maybe not for me, but for somebody in our
      > lab.
      > That would be enough for me to justify spending a lot of energy on
      > such gifts
      > as it would strengthen our gift economy, create value, and most
      > importantly
      > for me - extend the reach of our lab's economy so that more people
      > might see
      > us work and consider giving us paid work. My business goal is
      > therefore to
      > encourage us to document our gift economies - not the tit-for-tat
      > exchanges -
      > but rather the directory of services, both offered/desired, but also
      > given/received. This information would allow our communities to have
      > a wider
      > economy. I think that is crucial because, as I am realizing, in a
      > group of
      > friends there may be a lot of sharing but there isn't too much role for
      > money, because money is an instrument for engaging strangers. So we
      > need
      > more strangers! so we could get more paid work.
      > Sam, Steve, Lion and all, I'm excited at how we might organize around
      > such
      > gift communities, encourage the creation of gift nodes, and then the
      > aggregation of information from then, and then the incorporation of
      > other
      > kinds of useful knowledge about people's endeavors, locations, values,
      > investigations and designing maps of ecosystems of endeavors that we
      > might
      > show and navigate.
      > John Rogers http://www.valueforpeople.co.uk of Cyfranogi
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cyfranogi/ has a set of questions for
      > designing
      > such a community economy that we might apply here. They go to the
      > heart of
      > the power relationships in such a system, what are they to be?
      > I also ask our African participants at Holistic Helping, what are other
      > online communities that we might like to exchange gifts with?
      > Likewise, what
      > are community currency communities that might be interested? Or global
      > villages?
      > Andrius
      > Andrius Kulikauskas
      > Minciu Sodas
      > http://www.ms.lt
      > ms@...
      > in Chicago, then Missouri, San Diego, Chicago, Rome, Lithuania
      > Data , "Samuel Rose" <samuel.rose@...> Rašyta:
      >> I had a great conference call with Steve Bosserman, and Andrius
      >> Kulikauskas, of Minciu Sodas yesterday. One of the items Andrius
      >> mentioned
      >> was a project on Work Nets wiki where participants are listing
      >> "gifts" they
      >> have to offer, or items they'd like to receive, on their site:
      >> http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Gifts
      >> One of the things we talked about is that it seems to be more
      >> successful
      > for
      >> smaller groups who collaborate together, to create these types of
      >> exchanges, or giving "boards" amongst themselves, rather than
      >> creating a
      >> monolithic "service" that is meant to attract many people who are
      >> anonymous
      >> to one another. The groups of people who know each other are more at
      >> ease
      >> giving and sharing like this.
      >> We have been exploring a bartering exchange at
      >> http://www.communitywiki.org/en/InternetExchange. This is a bit
      >> different,
      >> in that it is meant to be a list of skills that can be bartered for
      >> in some
      >> way, either for LETS, or for some "equivalent" skill.
      >> And, of course in P2P foundation, we're developing a resource pool.
      >> An idea that Andrius raised in our conference call was to think about
      >> how
      > to
      >> connect "giving" networks between groups, so that, for instance if no
      >> one
      > at
      >> http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Gifts is interested in what is being
      >> offered or requested there, maybe people in groups where there is
      >> overlap
      > in
      >> participants, would be interested? It might be possible to create
      >> "Gift
      >> nodes" that connect these giving pages on different communities?
      >> This is
      >> kind of like we've created at
      >> http://www.communitywiki.org/en/WikiNode, but
      >> specifically centered on connecting pages like
      >> http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Gifts
      >> My friend Lion Kimbor, who helped me create
      >> http://www.communitywiki.org/en/InternetExchange, has brought up the
      >> point
      >> that there are some things that we would like to offer, but cannot
      >> really
      >> afford to offer for free. There are some types of work that we would
      >> like
      > to
      >> post as being available to do for the greater community, but would
      >> need
      >> something in exchange for (even if that is just LETS or community
      >> currency
      >> that is used solely for those exchanges.)
      >> So, what I would like to propose is that it we could create a "Gift"
      >> page
      >> that is similar to http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Gifts for the P2P
      >> foundation, and one for CommunityWiki. And, if there is interest,
      >> that we
      >> might also create a local "InternetExchange" for P2P foundation and
      >> perhaps
      >> Worknets, that is similar to
      >> http://www.communitywiki.org/en/InternetExchange, and that we create
      >> links
      >> between these ("Gift Nodes", "Exchange Nodes"). And, we think about
      >> how to
      >> keep these first centered and catered to their respective
      >> communities, but
      >> also open for access between communities, mostly through symbolic
      >> link. I
      >> propose that these pages would be public facing, like
      >> http://www.communitywiki.org/en/InternetExchange and
      >> http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Gifts
      >> If people are interested, I will make this a public-facing,
      >> openly-editable
      >> "wiki" page on http://socialsynergyweb.com/resourcepool
      >> Lion, and Andrius, I have copied you on this email, and please feel
      >> free to
      >> join
      > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.orgif
      >> you'd like this is a mailing list that grew from
      >> http://www.ntu.ac.uk/p2pworkshop2007/programme/index.html
      >> --
      >> Sam Rose
      >> Social Synergy
      >> Cel: +1-517-974-6451
      >> AIM: Str9960
      >> Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
      >> skype: samuelrose
      >> email: samuel.rose@...
      >> http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
      >> http://blog.socialsynergyweb.com
      >> Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
      >> OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
      >> http://p2pfoundation.net
      >> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
      >> http://www.cooperationcommons.com
      >> http://barcampbank.org
      >> http://bfwatch.barcampbank.org
      >> http://communitywiki.org
      >> http://extinctionlevelevent.com
      >> Information Filtering:
      >> http://socialsynergyweb.com/gregarius/
      >> http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
      >> http://del.icio.us/srose
      >> http://twitter.com/SamRose
      > http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?HolisticHelping
      > Please note our rule: Each letter sent to the Holistic Helping group
      > enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN unless it explicitly states otherwise. Thank
      > you! http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.