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Re: [hockhist] Re: KHL challenge for the Stanley Cup

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  • arthur chidlovski
    Hi Morey: When I compared the KHL to the WWE I didn t mean the fixed games or questionable calls by the officials. I meant that when the elite league is
    Message 1 of 30 , Jun 30, 2011
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      Hi Morey:

      When I compared the KHL to the WWE I didn't mean the fixed games or questionable calls by the officials. I meant that when the elite league is holding a draft and pick # 1 poorly skates but happen to be a sone of a friend of a Prime Minister and in the interview says that his dream is to play in the NHL, it all reminds staged WWE championships or some surrealistic comedy.

      What you are talking about is to me more like a questionable decision by the league. I don't think that Vancouver played so heartless and unrecognizably gutless in the finals because they got an offer they couldn't refuse. I am a Bostonian but I would probably agree with you that Rome's suspension was overboard.

      On the other hand conduct your experiment on watching Chara vs. Pacioretty and Rome vs. Horton with 5 people from Boston or 5 people from Vancouver or 5 people from Montreal, you will get different results. Yes, hockey is a physical game and things happen and there were controversial decisions made by the officials over decades. Still I don't think there is a WWEsque going on in the NHL. Of course, they do change the rules left and right to make the game more appealing to the audience but it's far from making a show from a game.

      Just my opinion,


      ____ Arthur Chidlovski ____
      http://www.chidlovski.com/


      --- On Thu, 6/30/11, MoreyH <epenaltybox@...> wrote:

      > From: MoreyH <epenaltybox@...>
      > Subject: [hockhist] Re: KHL challenge for the Stanley Cup
      > To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 5:41 PM
      > Hi Arthur,
      >
      > I'm curious of your statement.  How so?  I though
      > the NHL has done a pretty good job of imitating the
      > WWE.  I'm not quite ready to say this year's Stanley
      > Cup was fixed as I'm still gathering my evidence, but I'm
      > getting closer.
      >
      > For a hint:
      >
      > Find a non-hockey or moderate hockey fan and ask them
      > this:
      > What should the suspension be for this:
      >
      > 1.  Then roll the Chara hit on Pacioretty
      > 2.  Then show the Rome hit on Horton
      >
      > If you find one person who says the Rome hit was
      > dirtier/more wrong, I would certainly like to interview
      > him/her.
      >
      > I've tested this on 5 people, even rotating the order of
      > the hits, and all of them state the Chara hit was much
      > worse.
      >
      > Morey
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com,
      > arthur chidlovski <arch4web@...> wrote:
      > > NHL has no interest in this rivalry and the KHL looks
      > so far more like WWE wrestling (is it a sport, anyway?),
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to
      > hockhist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >     hockhist-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
    • MoreyH
      I ve always had a soft spot for the Bruins thanks to the 70s. When you grow up in Detroit in that era, it was nice to watch a real team. But this goes beyond
      Message 2 of 30 , Jul 1, 2011
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        I've always had a soft spot for the Bruins thanks to the 70s. When you grow up in Detroit in that era, it was nice to watch a real team.

        But this goes beyond questionable calls; there is an out-and-out bias. The sad part is that the way Tim Thomas played, the Bruins really didn't need any help.

        But you look at Campbellgate in November (an abuse of power being defended as a Hockey Dad's concerns); the Chara hit (by the way, I suspect that if Gregory Campbell was not a throw-in on the Nathan Horton deal AND Campbell did a better job winning the faceoff that Pacioretty beat Chara to AND the decision to suspend Chara went up the chain of command to a superior instead of to an inferior as what usually happens when someone recuses themselves; the Rome hit; AND the two top officials of the NHL are attorneys by trade who should have had all of this as basic fundamentals in law school, well shoot, Gregory Campbell is now worth Sidney Crosby-type money, if winning means something to you.

        I know Brendan Shanahan is not going to change things. I suspect you will see Shanahan resign before you see any real change. Colin Campbell will probably send him an email the fist time his son gets suspended. Wasn't Eric Lindros booted out of Philadelphia for his non-NHL VP dad doing the same thing?

        The real problem with organizations that are as close-knit as the NHL and the Hockey World is that abuse reigns supreme in lieu of integrity. Can't offend one's friends now, can we?

        Morey

        --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, arthur chidlovski <arch4web@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Morey:
        >
        > When I compared the KHL to the WWE I didn't mean the fixed games or questionable calls by the officials. I meant that when the elite league is holding a draft and pick # 1 poorly skates but happen to be a sone of a friend of a Prime Minister and in the interview says that his dream is to play in the NHL, it all reminds staged WWE championships or some surrealistic comedy.
        >
        > What you are talking about is to me more like a questionable decision by the league. I don't think that Vancouver played so heartless and unrecognizably gutless in the finals because they got an offer they couldn't refuse. I am a Bostonian but I would probably agree with you that Rome's suspension was overboard.
        >
        > On the other hand conduct your experiment on watching Chara vs. Pacioretty and Rome vs. Horton with 5 people from Boston or 5 people from Vancouver or 5 people from Montreal, you will get different results. Yes, hockey is a physical game and things happen and there were controversial decisions made by the officials over decades. Still I don't think there is a WWEsque going on in the NHL. Of course, they do change the rules left and right to make the game more appealing to the audience but it's far from making a show from a game.
        >
        > Just my opinion,
        >
        >
        > ____ Arthur Chidlovski ____
        > http://www.chidlovski.com/
        >
        >
        > --- On Thu, 6/30/11, MoreyH <epenaltybox@...> wrote:
        >
        > > From: MoreyH <epenaltybox@...>
        > > Subject: [hockhist] Re: KHL challenge for the Stanley Cup
        > > To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 5:41 PM
        > > Hi Arthur,
        > >
        > > I'm curious of your statement.  How so?  I though
        > > the NHL has done a pretty good job of imitating the
        > > WWE.  I'm not quite ready to say this year's Stanley
        > > Cup was fixed as I'm still gathering my evidence, but I'm
        > > getting closer.
        > >
        > > For a hint:
        > >
        > > Find a non-hockey or moderate hockey fan and ask them
        > > this:
        > > What should the suspension be for this:
        > >
        > > 1.  Then roll the Chara hit on Pacioretty
        > > 2.  Then show the Rome hit on Horton
        > >
        > > If you find one person who says the Rome hit was
        > > dirtier/more wrong, I would certainly like to interview
        > > him/her.
        > >
        > > I've tested this on 5 people, even rotating the order of
        > > the hits, and all of them state the Chara hit was much
        > > worse.
        > >
        > > Morey
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com,
        > > arthur chidlovski <arch4web@> wrote:
        > > > NHL has no interest in this rivalry and the KHL looks
        > > so far more like WWE wrestling (is it a sport, anyway?),
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to
        > > hockhist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >     hockhist-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • DAVE SOUTTER
        The NHL is the Old Boy s Club if there ever was one. Now if Toronto can win a Cup anytime soon, all of the Orginal Six would have Cups the past 20 years
        Message 3 of 30 , Jul 1, 2011
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          The NHL is the Old Boy's Club if there ever was one. Now if Toronto can win a Cup anytime soon, all of the Orginal Six would have Cups the past 20 years (give or take), but I'm not holding my breath. That is, unless Boston trades Gregory Campbell to the Maple Leafs, given his apparent value in the market. ;) Nothing against the Bruins--I was a Boston fan way back whenOrr flew over Noel Picard's hook. But it seems the Canucks gothosed, just a little. Bill: What is your take on this? --Dave Soutter
          To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
          From: epenaltybox@...
          Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 16:34:56 +0000
          Subject: [hockhist] Re: KHL challenge for the Stanley Cup




























          I've always had a soft spot for the Bruins thanks to the 70s. When you grow up in Detroit in that era, it was nice to watch a real team.



          But this goes beyond questionable calls; there is an out-and-out bias. The sad part is that the way Tim Thomas played, the Bruins really didn't need any help.



          But you look at Campbellgate in November (an abuse of power being defended as a Hockey Dad's concerns); the Chara hit (by the way, I suspect that if Gregory Campbell was not a throw-in on the Nathan Horton deal AND Campbell did a better job winning the faceoff that Pacioretty beat Chara to AND the decision to suspend Chara went up the chain of command to a superior instead of to an inferior as what usually happens when someone recuses themselves; the Rome hit; AND the two top officials of the NHL are attorneys by trade who should have had all of this as basic fundamentals in law school, well shoot, Gregory Campbell is now worth Sidney Crosby-type money, if winning means something to you.



          I know Brendan Shanahan is not going to change things. I suspect you will see Shanahan resign before you see any real change. Colin Campbell will probably send him an email the fist time his son gets suspended. Wasn't Eric Lindros booted out of Philadelphia for his non-NHL VP dad doing the same thing?



          The real problem with organizations that are as close-knit as the NHL and the Hockey World is that abuse reigns supreme in lieu of integrity. Can't offend one's friends now, can we?



          Morey



          --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, arthur chidlovski <arch4web@...> wrote:

          >

          > Hi Morey:

          >

          > When I compared the KHL to the WWE I didn't mean the fixed games or questionable calls by the officials. I meant that when the elite league is holding a draft and pick # 1 poorly skates but happen to be a sone of a friend of a Prime Minister and in the interview says that his dream is to play in the NHL, it all reminds staged WWE championships or some surrealistic comedy.

          >

          > What you are talking about is to me more like a questionable decision by the league. I don't think that Vancouver played so heartless and unrecognizably gutless in the finals because they got an offer they couldn't refuse. I am a Bostonian but I would probably agree with you that Rome's suspension was overboard.

          >

          > On the other hand conduct your experiment on watching Chara vs. Pacioretty and Rome vs. Horton with 5 people from Boston or 5 people from Vancouver or 5 people from Montreal, you will get different results. Yes, hockey is a physical game and things happen and there were controversial decisions made by the officials over decades. Still I don't think there is a WWEsque going on in the NHL. Of course, they do change the rules left and right to make the game more appealing to the audience but it's far from making a show from a game.

          >

          > Just my opinion,

          >

          >

          > ____ Arthur Chidlovski ____

          > http://www.chidlovski.com/

          >

          >

          > --- On Thu, 6/30/11, MoreyH <epenaltybox@...> wrote:

          >

          > > From: MoreyH <epenaltybox@...>

          > > Subject: [hockhist] Re: KHL challenge for the Stanley Cup

          > > To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com

          > > Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 5:41 PM

          > > Hi Arthur,

          > >

          > > I'm curious of your statement. How so? I though

          > > the NHL has done a pretty good job of imitating the

          > > WWE. I'm not quite ready to say this year's Stanley

          > > Cup was fixed as I'm still gathering my evidence, but I'm

          > > getting closer.

          > >

          > > For a hint:

          > >

          > > Find a non-hockey or moderate hockey fan and ask them

          > > this:

          > > What should the suspension be for this:

          > >

          > > 1. Then roll the Chara hit on Pacioretty

          > > 2. Then show the Rome hit on Horton

          > >

          > > If you find one person who says the Rome hit was

          > > dirtier/more wrong, I would certainly like to interview

          > > him/her.

          > >

          > > I've tested this on 5 people, even rotating the order of

          > > the hits, and all of them state the Chara hit was much

          > > worse.

          > >

          > > Morey

          > >

          > >

          > >

          > > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com,

          > > arthur chidlovski <arch4web@> wrote:

          > > > NHL has no interest in this rivalry and the KHL looks

          > > so far more like WWE wrestling (is it a sport, anyway?),

          > >

          > >

          > >

          > >

          > > ------------------------------------

          > >

          > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to

          > > hockhist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          > > Yahoo! Groups Links

          > >

          > >

          > > hockhist-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

          > >

          > >

          > >

          >


















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lloyd Davis
          Won t happen. Campbell was born in southern Ontario. Now, if he d been born in Detroit, where Coley was playing at the time, Burke might ve been interested.
          Message 4 of 30 , Jul 1, 2011
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            Won't happen. Campbell was born in southern Ontario.

            Now, if he'd been born in Detroit, where Coley was playing at the
            time, Burke might've been interested.

            (To listen to 'em around here, you'd think we were witnessing the
            return of the Chicago All-Americans.)




            On 1-Jul-11, at 1:44 PM, DAVE SOUTTER wrote:

            > That is, unless Boston trades Gregory Campbell to the Maple Leafs,
            > given his apparent value in the market.
          • arthur chidlovski
            It is certainly a possible scenario... Unfortunately. As for me, I am mostly getting a kick of their usage of emails. Every time they do something that is not
            Message 5 of 30 , Jul 1, 2011
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              It is certainly a possible scenario... Unfortunately.

              As for me, I am mostly getting a kick of their usage of emails. Every time they do something that is not supposed to be publicly known they send emails. I would imagine itcan be done by some VP wannabe on the NHL playstation but not in the good ol' boys club of NHL. Maybe it's time for them to start posting their intentions in the Yahoo forums :-)

              Arthur
            • William Underwood
              I don t think that any fix was in.there were a ZILLION reasons why Vancouver lost this series than losing Rome. Since when has he been such a great Norris
              Message 6 of 30 , Jul 2, 2011
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                I don't think that any "fix" was in.there were a ZILLION reasons why
                Vancouver lost this series than losing Rome. Since when has he been such a
                great Norris Trophy contender? He isn't.he is a COLLATERAL defenceman that
                ANY team in the NHL can live with or without. Losing Hamhuis to INJURY cost
                the Canucks FAR more as did the Sedin's allergic reaction to contact, once
                though of as being controlled, acting up again.which actually happened also
                when Weber and Suter were also "mean to them". Not to mention n when Roberto
                Luongo suddenly got a case of I don't really know what and before we stat
                thinking " Eddie Ciccote in the Black Sox payoff", he showed TRHE SAME
                symptoms of it in earlier series. an almost Marc Andre Fleury like ability
                to forget he was a star goalie. Then we get to Mr. Kessler just being
                banged up form contact both initiated by others and himself over several
                series wearing him down. In the end it was a case that the Canucks still
                lack one BIG thing.Killer Instinct. They showed it TIME and TIME again
                before the finals. One reporter put it best, the BRUINS were more like
                Canada's team in this series not only by the preponderance of Canadian
                players but even the guys whoa re not Canadian PLAYED like Canadians.with
                drive, aggression, urgency and passion wh9icha re all trademarks of Canadian
                hockey that even we Americans find a culture shock when we get up there.



                If anything the NHL is like any publicity minded organization. The Rome hit
                happened IN THE FINALS! EVERRYONE was watching as opposed to a regular
                season game. The Chara hit was not one that even casual fans saw, the Rome
                hit was. Add on they had "bite gate" which I STILL think the press played up
                WAY TOO much. If anything they caved into public pressure which is the SAME
                with any sports league, TV network or even politician. If it is something
                that gets more regional attention and is less damaging you don't react or
                give a limited reaction to it, if it is something that gets attention, well
                THAT is another matter. It can even come down to "who done it"..as
                appearances are EVERYTHING. A star player does a cheap shot odds are he will
                get more of a pass than if a "goon" does it. Again, human nature, one guy
                does it we have a"moment out of character" if the other does it "we have a
                loose cannon out of control." But then again even the LEGAL system does
                that.a rich white kid from the burbs does the same crime a poor black kid
                form a one parent home does, he gets probation, the black kid gets time.even
                for a more serious crime.one will get a bit of time in some soft core rehab
                center then his records are sealed and he is off to college, other is in the
                slammer and branded for life.one is seen as a "youthful indiscretion" the
                other is seen as the "next serial killer in the making" even though many
                truly sick killers have been white middle or even upper class.It was no
                "fix" Morey bit was HUMAN nature. Remember the NHL would have gotten a lot
                out of CANADA winning a Cup.in Canada they would be ecstatic and they could
                play up a win it back theme in the next year though few would care.



                The differences are classic.Chara is a star Pacioretty is not, Rome is not a
                star and Horton was.Chara is a Norris Trophy guy, an upstanding citizen.Rome
                is none of those dime a dozen physical lower end d men that in the NHL's
                eyes is more a "loose cannon". Chara only created furor in Quebec and to a
                degree Canada but I say to a degree.did Leaf fans REALLY care? The Rome hit
                was in the FINALS where we have Mike Emerick crafting his inane flowery
                poetry/prose to a "fallen hero" (sorry but sometimes Doc gets to me and
                justifies having a "mute" button.the sad thing is he CAN be a great play by
                play guy when he just sticks to it) we have McGuire, Milbury and Olczyk go
                to it the minute they run out of anything else to say or want to get the
                show moving again and in Canada we have the SAME relays and rehash etc.
                Remember what I always told my sports marketing class "sports are
                entertainment at the commercial level" and the media takes it to another
                degree. They want a TV show and DRAMA. They were fearing a short series so
                what do you do, fan the flames. Now I am no so sure that they to do that for
                the Bruins, those guys were fired up by the event itself but the AUDIENCE
                needed firing up. So stir the pot "you didn't just see a hockey game you saw
                a CRIME.tune in tomorrow you may see more." and a big fat juicy CRIME gets
                folks stirred up. But in turn that creates a backfire, a dilemma that
                eventually they can turn into a scenario to create for fans in Vancouver to
                feel indignant over and Bruin fans to respond to that anger. The league HAD
                to act as it made them LOOK bad if they didn't a guy was seriously hurt on
                their biggest stage.there was no real way to make the casual fan understand
                no suspension. Add on in Canada in an odd way the Chara hit MADE this
                happen. So many folks DID say "why no suspension"? Could they get away with
                it twice even regionally?



                No black Sox just human nature in a an era where the media can and does as a
                matter of their credo "news is entertainment" (after all we spent how much
                time in the juvenile activity of having hours upon hours of coverage of a
                naughty Congressman who was a bit of a perv.not a really illegal one mind
                you. who happened to be named Weiner.all we were missing was Bevis and
                Butthead laughing "and the dude's name is "Weiner"), a war is on in Libya
                and we are sitting here spending hours waiting of seeing debates about "if I
                show you mine will you show me more" is terrible. the guy will probably
                become the resident "sleaze expert" for some network analyst someday."now
                tell us as a veteran of exposing yourself, what is going through your mind
                at this moment."News is not news, it is ratings so a hockey series is less
                ratings than a guy getting hurt on TV. They muck rake even when there is to
                muck to rake.. The media drives this stuff and not to do any good except for
                their OWN ratings. You want the WWE go to your media outlets THEY are more
                like Vince McMahon than any sports league out there.we live in a an era of
                Yellow Journalism that is arguably worse than the original only with live
                picture where the angles and speed can be used to make anything look as bad
                as possible and a Mike Emerick to work it to dramatic prose and a bevy of
                experts to say "now see how terrible this really was." One can say the same
                happened with Chara but you miss the point, if an actor moons the audience
                in Ponoka it is just indecent exposure, if he foes it on Broadway it is a
                major story and new laws are written about decency on stage, Congressional
                hearings are held on "public amorality and moral decline" etc.Chara was
                lucky enough to not only be the party that is not seen as a loose cannon but
                he did it on a smaller stage. Sports are a microcosm of society, not always
                fair but also less a matter of corruption more a matter of human nature
                which in the public eye is media driven. Sure the Chara thing got attention
                but not the UNIVERSAL attention of the Rome hit and it happened at a time
                where there was other hockey news worldwide and the casual fan was more or
                less blissfully ignorant.as opposed to Rome when all lights were on him. .



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • MoreyH
                No arguement with anything you wrote Bill - it probably summed it up very accurately. Just one rhetorical question for all of us: How well do you think we
                Message 7 of 30 , Jul 3, 2011
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                  No arguement with anything you wrote Bill - it probably summed it up very accurately.

                  Just one rhetorical question for all of us: How well do you think we govern justice and are you happy with it?

                  Because if you answer yes, then Bill's answer is why, and the interpreted result of the masses becomes one of apathy.

                  If you answer no, then the interpreted result by the masses is one of protest.

                  Morey
                • DAVE SOUTTER
                  Justice in the NHL? Do you believe there really is such a thing? When a player purposely jumps another player from behind, lands violently on top of him,
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jul 3, 2011
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                    Justice in the NHL?

                    Do you believe there really is such a thing?

                    When a player purposely jumps another player from behind, lands violently on top of him, breaking his neck and thus ending his career, yet the aggressor is only suspended a handful of games...do you really believe any form of justice was served?

                    Justice exists to protect " little guys" from big boy abuse. Such a concept does not exist in the NHL.

                    I'll never forget when Barry Cummins of the California Seals was pummelled, hacked, speared, and left beaten and bloodied like a rented mule by several Flyers because Cummins' stick had clipped Bobby Clarke in the forehead, opening a cut that required six stitches.

                    The NHL did nothing to the Flyers players who unmercifully beat Cummins. The beating shook Cummins to the core and he was never the same player again.

                    Justice in the NHL? What does that mean?

                    --Dave Soutter


                    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: MoreyH <epenaltybox@...>
                    Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 18:34:56
                    To: <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: [hockhist] Re: KHL challenge for the Stanley Cup

                     



                    No arguement with anything you wrote Bill - it probably summed it up very accurately.

                    Just one rhetorical question for all of us: How well do you think we govern justice and are you happy with it?

                    Because if you answer yes, then Bill's answer is why, and the interpreted result of the masses becomes one of apathy.

                    If you answer no, then the interpreted result by the masses is one of protest.

                    Morey
                  • Craig Wallace
                    Hear hear....... ... From: DAVE SOUTTER To: MoreyH ; Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jul 3, 2011
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                      Hear hear.......
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "DAVE SOUTTER " <dsoutter@...>
                      To: "MoreyH " <epenaltybox@...>; <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 3:33 PM
                      Subject: Re: [hockhist] Re: KHL challenge for the Stanley Cup


                      Justice in the NHL?

                      Do you believe there really is such a thing?

                      When a player purposely jumps another player from behind, lands violently on
                      top of him, breaking his neck and thus ending his career, yet the aggressor
                      is only suspended a handful of games...do you really believe any form of
                      justice was served?

                      Justice exists to protect " little guys" from big boy abuse. Such a concept
                      does not exist in the NHL.

                      I'll never forget when Barry Cummins of the California Seals was pummelled,
                      hacked, speared, and left beaten and bloodied like a rented mule by several
                      Flyers because Cummins' stick had clipped Bobby Clarke in the forehead,
                      opening a cut that required six stitches.

                      The NHL did nothing to the Flyers players who unmercifully beat Cummins. The
                      beating shook Cummins to the core and he was never the same player again.

                      Justice in the NHL? What does that mean?

                      --Dave Soutter


                      Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: MoreyH <epenaltybox@...>
                      Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 18:34:56
                      To: <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: [hockhist] Re: KHL challenge for the Stanley Cup





                      No arguement with anything you wrote Bill - it probably summed it up very
                      accurately.

                      Just one rhetorical question for all of us: How well do you think we govern
                      justice and are you happy with it?

                      Because if you answer yes, then Bill's answer is why, and the interpreted
                      result of the masses becomes one of apathy.

                      If you answer no, then the interpreted result by the masses is one of
                      protest.

                      Morey





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                      To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to
                      hockhist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                    • MoreyH
                      If it doesn t change, eventually people will start to lose interest. And by then, it will be too late.
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jul 3, 2011
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                        If it doesn't change, eventually people will start to lose interest. And by then, it will be too late.

                        --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Wallace" <craigw@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hear hear.......
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "DAVE SOUTTER " <dsoutter@...>
                        > To: "MoreyH " <epenaltybox@...>; <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 3:33 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [hockhist] Re: KHL challenge for the Stanley Cup
                        >
                        >
                        > Justice in the NHL?
                        >
                        > Do you believe there really is such a thing?
                        >
                        > When a player purposely jumps another player from behind, lands violently on
                        > top of him, breaking his neck and thus ending his career, yet the aggressor
                        > is only suspended a handful of games...do you really believe any form of
                        > justice was served?
                        >
                        > Justice exists to protect " little guys" from big boy abuse. Such a concept
                        > does not exist in the NHL.
                        >
                        > I'll never forget when Barry Cummins of the California Seals was pummelled,
                        > hacked, speared, and left beaten and bloodied like a rented mule by several
                        > Flyers because Cummins' stick had clipped Bobby Clarke in the forehead,
                        > opening a cut that required six stitches.
                        >
                        > The NHL did nothing to the Flyers players who unmercifully beat Cummins. The
                        > beating shook Cummins to the core and he was never the same player again.
                        >
                        > Justice in the NHL? What does that mean?
                        >
                        > --Dave Soutter
                        >
                        >
                        > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: MoreyH <epenaltybox@...>
                        > Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 18:34:56
                        > To: <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Subject: [hockhist] Re: KHL challenge for the Stanley Cup
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > No arguement with anything you wrote Bill - it probably summed it up very
                        > accurately.
                        >
                        > Just one rhetorical question for all of us: How well do you think we govern
                        > justice and are you happy with it?
                        >
                        > Because if you answer yes, then Bill's answer is why, and the interpreted
                        > result of the masses becomes one of apathy.
                        >
                        > If you answer no, then the interpreted result by the masses is one of
                        > protest.
                        >
                        > Morey
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to
                        > hockhist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                      • William Underwood
                        I think the problem comes when you try to interpret NHL justice like a court room today.it does not really apply. To use an analogy I read many years ago about
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jul 4, 2011
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                          I think the problem comes when you try to interpret NHL justice like a court
                          room today.it does not really apply. To use an analogy I read many years ago
                          about NHL refereeing and European refereeing, that said in Europe a ref is
                          more like a constable in Europe in the NHL he is more like a sheriff in the
                          Old West. To take it to another level, discipline in the NHL it is more like
                          a marshall in the Old West or a frontier judge and you get the idea better.
                          In those days if a guy was shot and it was a "fair fight" there would be no
                          trial. There was the "he asked for it" defense. And every gun fight was seen
                          differently. Were they drunk? /was it is a saloon or in the street? Was it
                          in a more settled town or not? How did it happen? Who shot first? Who were
                          the desperados involved? and it sort of has to be that way. It is hard to
                          categorize EVERYTHING that happens on the ice into black and white Remember
                          what we have here. We have a contact sport which by its very nature is a
                          different standard than most of everyday life. In everyday life you are not
                          allowed or encouraged to collide at speeds close 20 MPH. Crashing into walls
                          together is discouraged in everyday life. We do not carry long pieces of
                          lumber in everyday life that get swung around as apart of our job. Simply
                          put, in a world like that just as was the case in the old west when a lot of
                          folks were armed, you were along way from conventional authority and there
                          were dangerous folks out there, an entirely different sort of justice
                          prevailed. In the Old West, you had to be armed and often you DID have to
                          shoot.or you would have been dead.there can't be the same consistency of
                          justice as unconventional behavior is allowed due to necessity. I very much
                          about anyone wants contact out of hockey. Now if you want to see folks lose
                          interest try that! You have soccer on ice and maybe even worse.a true
                          bore.it becomes skating ping pong...would any of us REALLY want to watch 82
                          NHL All star games a year only less skilled? It reverses the issue of no
                          scoring to an excess.suddenly it you just are watching them skate back and
                          forth and it is a 16-12 score.no passion and the action is so routine that
                          it becomes dull and repetitive. Now if you are going to hit at that speed
                          you will have problems happen and the issue is to differentiate between
                          several levels...clean.clean but accidental problem, carelessness and
                          maliciousness. And there are degrees. Now what we strive for is NONE of the
                          last, as little as possible of careless but we DON'T want to do a much about
                          the other two or you get no check hockey. It is not easy, I have run leagues
                          and have had to do it and when you straight jacket it you run into problems.
                          You also need to look at each sort of foul differently, a stick foul you
                          have to be more strict on, a hit is a technically legal thing that was for
                          whatever reason gone badly.



                          Now you can take the view that response that public driven justice is not
                          justice and it is not but how badly does the public react to it? In Boston
                          they are HAPPY. In Vancouver they are pissed. The rest are divided/apathetic
                          and most folks really don't care after the next news item hits. In Philly,
                          what talk there was died quickly and as soon as you had the big trades it
                          was forgotten.this is not a murder trial it is a hockey suspension. The
                          folks who talk about it are hockey types who will keep on following because
                          they love the sport, for those that complain about, it, well they probably
                          use that as an excuse to say why they don't watch hockey when it is really
                          that they just don't like the sport. And in the end all law and justice is
                          driven by the public, this is why some places allow caning and others will
                          lot a murderer out in three years and even in those places murderer A gets
                          20 ye at the start and murderer B gets 5..Even what the DA goes for is in
                          part influenced by public opinion. Like I say sports are a microcosm..



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • MoreyH
                          Oh I strongly agree and disagree with you. I ran league, I played, I coached, I officiated - just not at the highest level. I developed a rule book for
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
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                            Oh I strongly agree and disagree with you.

                            I ran league, I played, I coached, I officiated - just not at the highest level. I developed a rule book for wheelchari hockey and even had a couple of IHL referees moonlight.

                            Fights did occur in those games too.

                            You're correct when you say that you can not be black-and-white. I once had a fight between two sons of the coaches, both of whom were mellow kids and the last two people you ever expected in a fight.

                            I don;t know why the fight started, but we had a an automatic one game suspension for a fight. As the fight occurred in the last regular season game, their first-round opponents naturally wanted the automatic suspension.

                            I looked at the details, and determined there was no way I was going to reward the other teams for a fight for a reason no one remembers, including the referee, how it started or even why. I did tell the players and the coaches however, if there ever was another fight, the kids and their coach would get a minimum 2-game suspension, no matter the circumstances.

                            Neither kid was ever a problem.

                            The differences between myself (then) and the NHL are:

                            1. No vested interests. I was there for everyone. I didn't pull a referee aside and ask how come my son's team was getting screwed. (Still can't believe that Bettman & Co. see nothing wrong with that.)

                            2. I was consistent. I would make the exact same ruling if those exact same circumstances came up. I dealt with a 15-year-old giving a two-handed whirlybird in a playoff game to a much bigger opponent and felling him like a lumberjack to an oak tree. He was banished. The agressor was an all-star. He was banished.

                            3. I didn't make the rules up as I went along, but I did. And I can always defend myself. Two words Sabres fans: Brett Hull.

                            4. Even though I had friends who were coaches - one of the officiants for my wedding, for instance - I refused to run my league like the Old Boys Network. This was who I was, and what I'm doing. If you don't like it, well, don't let the swinging bench doors hit your fanny on the way out. The Old Boys Club has been so intertwined with the NHL for so many years - one of the Hall of Fame officials told me that the way the Hall elections worked well into the 1980s was that Harold Ballard and Bill Wirtz would have lunch, come to an agreement, and tell the committee that if they liked their prestigious job, this is who gets elected - that the NHL COULDN'T get rid of the Old Boys CLub even if it desired to. The Jacobs' and Sniders have given (and made) way too much to ever let that happen.

                            Morey



                            --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "William Underwood" <wausport@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I think the problem comes when you try to interpret NHL justice like a court
                            > room today.it does not really apply. To use an analogy I read many years ago
                            > about NHL refereeing and European refereeing, that said in Europe a ref is
                            > more like a constable in Europe in the NHL he is more like a sheriff in the
                            > Old West. To take it to another level, discipline in the NHL it is more like
                            > a marshall in the Old West or a frontier judge and you get the idea better.
                            > In those days if a guy was shot and it was a "fair fight" there would be no
                            > trial. There was the "he asked for it" defense. And every gun fight was seen
                            > differently. Were they drunk? /was it is a saloon or in the street? Was it
                            > in a more settled town or not? How did it happen? Who shot first? Who were
                            > the desperados involved? and it sort of has to be that way. It is hard to
                            > categorize EVERYTHING that happens on the ice into black and white Remember
                            > what we have here. We have a contact sport which by its very nature is a
                            > different standard than most of everyday life. In everyday life you are not
                            > allowed or encouraged to collide at speeds close 20 MPH. Crashing into walls
                            > together is discouraged in everyday life. We do not carry long pieces of
                            > lumber in everyday life that get swung around as apart of our job. Simply
                            > put, in a world like that just as was the case in the old west when a lot of
                            > folks were armed, you were along way from conventional authority and there
                            > were dangerous folks out there, an entirely different sort of justice
                            > prevailed. In the Old West, you had to be armed and often you DID have to
                            > shoot.or you would have been dead.there can't be the same consistency of
                            > justice as unconventional behavior is allowed due to necessity. I very much
                            > about anyone wants contact out of hockey. Now if you want to see folks lose
                            > interest try that! You have soccer on ice and maybe even worse.a true
                            > bore.it becomes skating ping pong...would any of us REALLY want to watch 82
                            > NHL All star games a year only less skilled? It reverses the issue of no
                            > scoring to an excess.suddenly it you just are watching them skate back and
                            > forth and it is a 16-12 score.no passion and the action is so routine that
                            > it becomes dull and repetitive. Now if you are going to hit at that speed
                            > you will have problems happen and the issue is to differentiate between
                            > several levels...clean.clean but accidental problem, carelessness and
                            > maliciousness. And there are degrees. Now what we strive for is NONE of the
                            > last, as little as possible of careless but we DON'T want to do a much about
                            > the other two or you get no check hockey. It is not easy, I have run leagues
                            > and have had to do it and when you straight jacket it you run into problems.
                            > You also need to look at each sort of foul differently, a stick foul you
                            > have to be more strict on, a hit is a technically legal thing that was for
                            > whatever reason gone badly.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Now you can take the view that response that public driven justice is not
                            > justice and it is not but how badly does the public react to it? In Boston
                            > they are HAPPY. In Vancouver they are pissed. The rest are divided/apathetic
                            > and most folks really don't care after the next news item hits. In Philly,
                            > what talk there was died quickly and as soon as you had the big trades it
                            > was forgotten.this is not a murder trial it is a hockey suspension. The
                            > folks who talk about it are hockey types who will keep on following because
                            > they love the sport, for those that complain about, it, well they probably
                            > use that as an excuse to say why they don't watch hockey when it is really
                            > that they just don't like the sport. And in the end all law and justice is
                            > driven by the public, this is why some places allow caning and others will
                            > lot a murderer out in three years and even in those places murderer A gets
                            > 20 ye at the start and murderer B gets 5..Even what the DA goes for is in
                            > part influenced by public opinion. Like I say sports are a microcosm..
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • William Underwood
                            Morey the one thing that I can tell you about this entire process is that no matter WHO odes it and HOW well it is done you will always hear the same thing I
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jul 6, 2011
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                              Morey the one thing that I can tell you about this entire process is that no
                              matter WHO odes it and HOW well it is done you will always hear the same
                              thing "I was screwed" and "so and so got preferential treatment".it is
                              battle cry of the loser. Montreal has no influence? Ed Snider has probably
                              had more guys suspended than any three owners! And he is not a part of what
                              we now would call "the Old Boys Club"?



                              There is no smoking gun here. Judgment can always be questioned and always
                              will be. There will always be the case of "what he did was not really as bad
                              as so and so but he got more!" Human nature and fallibility bare there. Some
                              of us think that Michael Vick should never have seen the inside of an NBFL
                              stadium.a league that prides itself on supposedly making character important
                              today yet here we have a guy who behaved as horrendously as possible being
                              idolized.so much for "character" meaning anything. Baseball has an entire
                              generation of cheaters.poor Roger Maris got an asterisk in his name to his
                              dying day merely because he dared to break the record of the legend and be
                              less than a legend himself but we have Mr. Chemistry there with no asterisk
                              as home run king.yet baseball strand against cheating. Would Mantle have
                              had an asterisk had he broken the record? I doubt it! In soccer you have a
                              corrupt World Cup committee yet outside of England no one ahs the guts to
                              scream (of course England was screwed by it) and good old Herr Blatter
                              remains at the top with a hand out as usual.third world nations have given
                              him more of their foreign aid than the folks who are supposed to get it!
                              Even Mr. Stern makes some questionable calls across New York. So we have one
                              sport laced with ex cons and should be cons taking the field every Sunday,
                              another that selectively decides who should hold a record and who should not
                              because they like one guy over another and a world sport that allows bribery
                              and blatant manipulation to govern them and yes we even see on the field
                              stuff blown the Maradona goal remember, the magic hand that did not exist?
                              And they say "we don't need replay"!. Is the good old NHL any worse? Why
                              should fans desert it and not these other sports?



                              Look I have criticized Bettman over the years and would love to see Canada
                              get bits Cup but sorry on this one I draw lines. I see no "fix". And nor do
                              I see the NHL as being all that much worse than other sports. It is a TOIUGH
                              gamer to adjudicate, far more borderline stuff. And yes they make mistakes
                              but it is, has been and always will be that way. Remember the Richard riots?
                              Folks said "had he been named Richardson he would not have gotten as bad a
                              suspension." Some things never change.




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • MoreyH
                              As the NHL s longest-tenured owner, I m sure Snider is now King of the Ol Boys Club. He paid his dues. The most valid criticism of my book was that it did not
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jul 8, 2011
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                                As the NHL's longest-tenured owner, I'm sure Snider is now King of the Ol Boys Club. He paid his dues.

                                The most valid criticism of my book was that it did not consider other sports in context.

                                It's a fair and valid comment, although I don't believe I need to understand the Armenian genocide to know that Hitler was just a very bad idea and wrong.

                                The NHL gets off the hook way too much for its poor officiating and suplpementary discipline. Gary Bettman and/or Bill Daly should have seen the Campbell issue as far back as 2002, when Gregory was drafted 67th overall.

                                It's much more convenient to complain the game is too fast blah blah blah than to take appropriate actions that might ruffle a few feathers.

                                Morey
                              • William Underwood
                                Slight issue.Campbell has always removed himself form suspensions involving his sons team.there goes the smoking gun! Morey, pro hockey is sport where we have
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jul 9, 2011
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                                  Slight issue.Campbell has always removed himself form suspensions involving
                                  his sons team.there goes the smoking gun! Morey, pro hockey is sport where
                                  we have a lot of brothers and fathers and sons etc, we deal with it ALL of
                                  the time and the decorum is that when your son is involved you BACK out of
                                  the room..literally! I have SEEN it at work. When as a scouting staff we
                                  talk about a guys son, he LEAVES and often we are even asked "don't draft
                                  him". Pedigree has a legit role in evaluation but at the same time I see it
                                  at the higher levels, you back out when the son is involved. In this sport
                                  there is a fair chance that your son will follow in your foot steps or you
                                  have a brother, nephew etc playing so we have dealt with it FOR YEARS. You
                                  can't ask guys to quit because their son has succeeded or ask a son to not
                                  play or to not let the son into the league if eh deserves it. So we do the
                                  best that we can.you butt out. Sorry but there was no "fix in" for this
                                  year's Cup just a MORBID melt down..no new book to title "Six Men Offside".
                                  :-) No Black Sox.just a new version of the 64 Phillies blowing a pennant
                                  BADLY..



                                  Your book was good. But at the same time my point is that if inconsistencies
                                  etc in other sports don't; ruin their credibility so why should NHL issues
                                  ruin its credibility? Why should they be special? You are actually the one
                                  that if anything is saying "Nazi genocide is bad and says bad stuff about
                                  them but Turkish genocide does not say the same of them." And talking
                                  genocide is a bit extreme when it is more like a more simple issue, the
                                  concepts of justice and law which indeed it is a matter of as these concepts
                                  are not just things that governments deal with, any organization has them to
                                  some degree.rules and how they are enforced..



                                  Indeed there are inconsistencies, but that is because justice is a
                                  SUBJECTIVE process and MUST be. And that goers for the NHL right through the
                                  Supreme Court. We just saw a woman walk this week who may well have
                                  murdered her child in cold blood or at the very least wasted millions of
                                  dollars of court time because she lied but will walk scott free. She is at
                                  worst a murderer at best a pathological little lair who didn't won up to an
                                  accident and save us the trouble in the first place then tried to blame it
                                  all on everything from her dad to the price of wheat for it happening. Now
                                  some other schmo will do real time for a good deal less. Does it destroy our
                                  justice system? How many murderers have walked because they are CELEBRITY
                                  murderers? On the other hand if we see celebrities also taken to trial for
                                  ridiculously small amounts of evidence for a local yokel DA to seem
                                  big.remember Kobe Bryant's alleged rape case which held about as much water
                                  as the Titanic did after it hit the ice berg?



                                  N\HL justice is imperfect but so is ANY system. Do we want a system where
                                  each case is "the same"? NO! Manslaughter is not premeditated homicide and
                                  there are even degrees of that. Shop lifting is not grand theft or armed
                                  robbery. And even subsidiary to this each case is different. Did somebody
                                  mired ran old lady for ten bucks or did someone murder a person who was
                                  abusing them? Was it a crime of passion or a crime of greed or hate? The
                                  legal system makes these distinctions EVERY day but does it lose
                                  credibility? Do we say."no lets do like the Mid East, a guy steals something
                                  he loses a hand no matter what.if he needed food or if he just did it to
                                  steal money doesn't matter, he stole so off with the hand."? We have degrees
                                  of guilt. What sort of system does not have them? Hockey's biggest issue is
                                  that among North American sports it will always have the most such issues of
                                  ANY sport due its very nature, we playa fast game, where there is hitting
                                  and a piece of lumber involved. Simply out there are more cases to compare
                                  than most sports. There are sports abroad who have a lot of Tribunals such
                                  as the AFL in Australia and is there complete consistency or a list of what
                                  you get for what? No. Is it perfect? No. But it survives. The judge took
                                  himself off of the bench for this episode of law and order. And did he win
                                  the Cup for Boston anyway? No. If anyone who was not a Bruin contributed to
                                  it lets say it was Luongo (who gets the Brian Boucher Award for Not So
                                  Clutch Goaltending in the Finals) , the Sedins (joint winners of the
                                  Hartless Trophy."when the going got rough we were behind it.by 25 feet"
                                  both in this series and when Suter and Weber were also "mean to them") and
                                  the Fickle Finger of Fate that put Hamhuis and Samuelsson out. Which
                                  incidentally if Krejci was to have sat for it I would have said, envelope
                                  please.ONE game..



                                  Sorry but this was no fix ands it wasn't even a complete Bruin win.they won
                                  as much because the Canucks did NOT deserve it as they did because they
                                  deserved it. And we saw the symptoms early. This bunch had all the killer
                                  instinct as a hair dressing convention and the few and proud who broke that
                                  pattern were so beaten up from carrying the entire load of clutch play by
                                  the time that they got to the final the tank was on empty. The Bruins were a
                                  direct opposite, the ONE thing I will NEVER accuse this team of is a lack of
                                  guts and the guts went top to bottom.







                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • MoreyH
                                  And put the person he hired in charge, while he s sending off emails, from his NHL email account, to the Head Ref in Charge complaining about the officiating
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jul 12, 2011
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                                    And put the person he hired in charge, while he's sending off emails, from his NHL email account, to the Head Ref in Charge complaining about the officiating involving his kid's team.

                                    Sorry, Bill, but that's as kosher as a ham and cheese sandwich.

                                    Morey

                                    --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "William Underwood" <wausport@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Slight issue.Campbell has always removed himself form suspensions involving
                                    > his sons team.there goes the smoking gun!
                                  • William Underwood
                                    The worst email actually impugned Marc Savard who Campbell called a little faker who does Savard play for.some team that has a B on their sweater.granted
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jul 13, 2011
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                                      The worst email actually impugned Marc Savard who Campbell called a little
                                      faker" who does Savard play for.some team that has a "B" on their
                                      sweater.granted before his son played with him.So sorry Morey your smoking
                                      gun is about as effective evidence as the moment when OJ tried on the glove!
                                      :-) Or maybe as kosher as ham and egg sandwich mixed with some shell fish
                                      and served with a milk shake. :-) As some know a summer passion of mine is
                                      Aussie Rules footy. EACH week we have the SAME sort of droning by the
                                      commentators about tribunals. "Will that get him any matches." "It shouldn't
                                      his head didn't bounce off of the ground which seems to be what they use
                                      now." "Yeah well I guess is if that is what they go by." Laughter "Well it
                                      seems to be." That is close to a transcript form this weeks
                                      Western/Melbourne tilt. Colin Campbell does not work for the AFL.they us e a
                                      TRIBUNAL. A few weeks back a big issue was the interpretation of the play
                                      on rule. Sound familiar



                                      I know A LOT of guys in the NHL and nary a ONE has EVER hinted that he feels
                                      Campbell is biased! These same guys DO criticize decisions and one almost
                                      got in trouble for doing it publicly with a reporter when asked about it.
                                      And no it was not Campbell's integrity it was simply the NORMAL issue of " I
                                      don't think eh deserved it" that we see ALL of the time and EVERYWHERE! Some
                                      critiques the man's decisions but no one ever questioned his character and
                                      these guys question everything.



                                      And let me ask have the BRUINS had any suspensions of late?



                                      Paille sits 4 in Feb.

                                      Marchand sits 2 in Mar.



                                      Now have Bruin opponents avoided suspension...we have "the bite" which MANY
                                      screamed blood for.I was not one of them but MANY did..did Burrows sit?
                                      Nope. How many games did Rome sit? The same number as Paille did for a blind
                                      hit. In fact the calls for that were ALL 2-4 games this year. The length
                                      seems largely to happen for was there an injury? One would THINK if "the
                                      fix" was in, Burrows a key scorer for Vancouver would have sat 4.I presume
                                      he is Campbells long lost cousin? So exactly where is the inequity? Was Rome
                                      a great stand out for Vancouver? Are teams clamoring."you know what we need
                                      to win a cup is that Aaron \Rome.why we may give him a 6 million dollar
                                      offer sheet"? Nor do I know anyone in the game who felt he should not have
                                      sat.



                                      One can argue Chara should have sat but I hear that debate time and time
                                      again. Sorry gang but I don't see all of the evil others do.The players were
                                      close together and just off of a contested puck.Rome in contrast skated
                                      several feet into the man.Charas arms were at his side and were not lifted
                                      to the head, the head injury was from hitting the divider.Rome moved his
                                      arms and his body upward on the hit. Now had that divider not been hit.well
                                      Lucic made similar hit right near the divider on Tyrell who was not hurt and
                                      hesis not even get called by the ref for it! Sure Chara could have sat a
                                      game or two. But then again I can also see the argument for what he got. a
                                      major and game and that is all. I just don't see the same issues as Rome.
                                      They were coming off of a contested play and were right with each other
                                      almost tied up. Is a hit all that unthinkable? No. I think Chara meant to
                                      hit him but not into the glass. The other guy made a HIGH hit, his arms were
                                      up his body went up at a guy who was several feet away and hand distributed
                                      the puck at that point. Now had he kept his arm down I may give him some
                                      wriggle room or had they been closer together. They were not. Add on this is
                                      PRECISELY the type of hit that cost us Crosby and others have been hurt by.
                                      It was the TEXT book concussion hit. How many times do we see guys have
                                      their heads go into dividers? How many injuries have there been that way
                                      this year? Morey I GREW UP a Hab fan but do I think I would have sat Chara?
                                      I doubt it. I wanted to see the Canucks win the Cup but would I have sat
                                      Rome? YES. And just to make sure that we are all clear I am not on an NHL
                                      payroll, have bashed Bettman more times than Carter has liver pills and no
                                      Bruin is a blood relation or even one by marriage or blood brotherhood. I
                                      saw a junior kid go into a divider this year and he hurt his hip badly.no
                                      call was made for it (nor should there have been) and even him and his dad
                                      didn't whine about it. Crap happens. And remember this was Montreal, in
                                      Nashville odds are all it makes is somebody's "big hit" video. Montreal fans
                                      are passionate and bit biased and folks like to weigh in, for the Habs of
                                      course.had Subban made the hit I doubt we see the same reaction.



                                      I still see no smoking gun.no terrible den of corruption. I see human
                                      judgment and controversy. I can see an argument for Chara to sit and I see a
                                      counter argument.for Rome I see a counter too as I have said before but it
                                      is weaker one. And in the context of other suspensions and non suspensions
                                      and the fact that if Colin just wanted to get sonny boy a Cup he would have
                                      screamed for Burrows to sit.I see no smoking gun. Add on Morey, did ANYONRE
                                      REALLY think that losing Rome cost the Canucks the Cup? Did anyone at the
                                      time say."ugh oh they lost perennial "Norris Trophy candidate" Aaron Rome,
                                      they are going to blow their series lead!". Again if anyone wanted to really
                                      screw Vancouver they would have had "Count Dracula" sitting for "the
                                      bite".Your argument is circumstantial AT BEST and where does that get a
                                      conviction.not even in the NHL or its fans which is why we see no "Campbell
                                      gate" raging on in Parliament nor did fans turn off the NHL after the
                                      decision.







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                                    • William Underwood
                                      PS.as I have said before..if anyone was writing stuff that influenced the NHL it was the media.they were already wringing their hands over the Burrows non
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jul 13, 2011
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                                        PS.as I have said before..if anyone was writing stuff that influenced the
                                        NHL it was the media.they were already wringing their hands over the Burrows
                                        non suspension.if Rome had NOT gotten 'the chair" I bet you would have seen
                                        some accuse the NHL of rigging the final for Canada just as you are accusing
                                        Campbell of doing for Boston..In the end I see no evil just imperfect human
                                        judgment at work which we will always see.



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