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Re: [hockhist] Re: Sidney Crosby's sister also suffered concussion

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  • Karkoski James
    And, it also depends on what you want to call the old days because before the 70s stick swinging fights was something that happened now and then. I have
    Message 1 of 35 , Mar 10, 2011
      And, it also depends on what you want to call the "old days" because
      before the 70s stick swinging fights was something that happened now
      and then.

      I have trouble with the Don Cherry idea that the players will police
      themselves because it revolves on the idea that you can use fear to
      dictate bad behavior on the ice, because fighting really does the
      opposite now, it allows fear to counter effect good play. I mean how
      many times do teams use fighting to change the tenor of a game? And,
      how many times do you hear announcer and commentators talk about how
      this is an accepted and smart way to play the game? If you let
      fighting dictate bad behavior than the use of it to affect good play
      is sure to increase as well.

      I don't think that a league that lets players punch each other in the
      face should be so shocked when during the course of play the players
      dangerously deck each other in the head. I'd love to see some data on
      what the head injury/concussion rates are in the league which don't
      allow fighting.

      I do agree with the implication below that new equipment is the cause
      of some of the problem. When you start wearing body fitting protection
      it makes your body more of an weapon than it does when you are wearing
      looser fitting ones. It seems to me that the new style gloves lets the
      players clench a fist now, which means when you can hit someone with a
      lot more force in your arms than before.

      As for the helmets, well Max Pacioretty would probably be dead if he
      wasn't wearing a helmet. Take away the helmets and the first time a
      player gets maimed it is curtains for the NHL.

      On 2011/03/11, at 3:19, Lloyd Davis wrote:

      > Was that really respect or self-preservation?
      > I remain convinced there's an element of "Music was better before
      > Sinatra/Elvis/The Beatles/Springsteen/punk/rap came along and ruined
      > it" to the contention that players were more respectful of one
      > another.
      > It rarely takes long for many commentators to shift from that chestnut
      > to the song on the flipside: "Why, in my day we HATED our opponents.
      > We didn't go out for dinner with them, like they do now. Everything's
      > all pansified, and the union is partially to blame. You wouldn't kill
      > a union brother, after all. In my day, we wouldn't even acknowledge
      > the other team if they walked through our railroad car on road trips.
      > During the off-season, if I was driving down Highway 2 and saw that
      > Bobby had a flat tire, I wouldn't pull over to help him. During the
      > OFF-SEASON. The players today are just too soft. They don't have that
      > hunger we had. There were only five defencemen on a team and only six
      > teams. Think about that! The 31st-best defenceman in the world
      > couldn't get a job! Today he gets a friggin' Corvette and a million-
      > dollar bonus just for signing his name, and he hasn't even played a
      > frickin' game. These guys care more about their haircuts than the
      > fundamentals. Soft, I tell ya, just soft."
      > On 10-Mar-11, at 1:01 PM, William Underwood wrote:
      > > You can't quantify it but at the same time trained observers and
      > > players
      > > observations do have value both say it. I have played and watched
      > > the game
      > > since I was young for more decades than I like to admit and have
      > > been paid
      > > to do it for my entire adult life. The stuff I see today just
      > > didn't happen
      > > as much in yesteryear and the reason is simple, when you had little
      > > facile
      > > protection you didn't really want to do in head first nor did you
      > > really
      > > want to kill or seriously maim another player. So there were just
      > some
      > > things you didn't do. They carry the sticks high and have their
      > > heads down
      > > way too much.

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    • William Underwood
      No one can advocate getting rid of helmets. Nor can one advocate going back to clutch and grab. You are right on those accounts James. What has to be done is
      Message 35 of 35 , Mar 14, 2011
        No one can advocate getting rid of helmets. Nor can one advocate going back
        to clutch and grab. You are right on those accounts James. What has to be
        done is to te4ach players from an early age how to cope with the brave new
        world.not by taking the contact out of the game but rather to teach proper
        contact skills. I am not a big believer in more facial protection, I'm just
        not so sure that it doesn't make it all get worse. And I think that
        something has to be done about shoulder pads and elbow guards these
        days.they are just too big and some designs are ridiculous, they can be
        pared down and still remain effective. Another thing are the new alloy
        sticks.not so sure that wood was not safer as it simply broke easier there
        was more give. I think we really also have to look at the next generation of
        rinks for the older guys, players have grown the rink hasn't so maybe a
        bigger ice surface is in order for the future generations. Some designs on
        rinks, particularly regarding where the glass ends in some buildings needs
        more examination, I have seen guys nailed into these areas and get hurt. I
        think that ALL rinks should have glass in front of the penalty box. Maybe
        ditch the full cage at 18 mandatory.and maybe allow hitting as bit younger.
        Also put more about open ice hitting in coaching manuals and spend more time
        on lateral mobility. And yes ditch the instigator rule except under extreme
        circumstances like say during any stoppage and by doing that you make guys
        more answerable. Also when they are still kids make them sit for really
        careless head shots;. Mind you I not saying "he is 5-9 you are 6 feet and
        he ducked and got it in the head so you sit" but rather."sorry your elbows
        were way up in there you sit." Teach them to keep the elbows DOWN and use
        the SHOULDER. And finally every practice should devote some time to drills
        that make you keep your head up..I always liked the one that the Russians
        used that you skated an entire team inside of the blue line weaving with
        pucks.add on if you crash you do sprints, have to jump the boards 50 times
        or whatever nasty little "make it sink in" thing you want.hitting drills
        would be good both to learn how to hit and to take a hit.I remember I
        coached a senior team once that was made of guys who were GOOD hockey
        players but had been out of contact hockey a few years and there were two
        things I needed to do first was to get them into shape (I couldn't skate
        them hard without a cardiologist on call:-)) and get them back into hitting.
        Half speed drills even will do to just develop timing and the habit of
        having your head up and to relax when hit. The idea is that repetition even
        not at full speed makes you grasp a hold of what you are doing and it
        becomes second nature. Award good hits and penalize bad ones.when a guy
        makes a bad hit sit him for the rest of the period.when he makes a good one
        add say a sticker to the helmet like come colleges do or something and maybe
        even take one away for every head shot penalty..and you have to do it all
        EARLY fin we are serious about this stuff.. All just some ideas.but one
        thing is for sure we can't just say "the NHL has to take care of it".they
        are on the END of the developmental ladder, if we want to get a handle on
        these issues the key is to start at the beginning. The NHL has to address
        the issue but that is not good enough we need guys who by the time they are
        up they have learned to the point that the league has to act on this stuff
        less and less ..

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