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Boston Bruins outcoached?

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  • Craig
    Tonight while driving home I heard former player agent and Maple Leaf official Bill Watters state that the Boston Bruins of the late 60 s early 70 s should
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 6, 2009
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      Tonight while driving home I heard former player agent and Maple Leaf official Bill Watters state that the Boston Bruins of the late 60's early 70's should have been a dynasty and won 4-5 Stanley Cups with the talent that they had. He also claimed that in their losses to Montreal in 1969 and 1971 as well as Philly in 1974 they were outcoached and placed the blame for those losses on Harry Sinden, Tom Johnson and Bep Guidlon. He also said the same about the Don Cherry era Bruins in so far as their loss in 1979 to Montreal.

      I agree that with the talent on the Bruins in the early 70's they should have been more successful - but outcoached? Hmm not sure. Any thoughts?

      Craig




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Karkoski James
      I m hoping some one will be able to help me, I m looking for the 2007-08 stats for the Manitoba AAA Midget Hockey League. If anyone has them I d appreciate it
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 6, 2009
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        I'm hoping some one will be able to help me, I'm looking for the
        2007-08 stats for the Manitoba AAA Midget Hockey League. If anyone has
        them I'd appreciate it if you'd contact me off list. Thanks!

        James
      • nybos1974
        Coaching may not have played much of a role with the Bruins. For my book The Rangers, The Bruins, And the End of an Era I spoke to Ed Westfall and asked him
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 7, 2009
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          Coaching may not have played much of a role with the Bruins. For my book "The Rangers, The Bruins, And the End of an Era" I spoke to Ed Westfall and asked him about Tom Johnson. Here is part of what he said.

          "Tom, he was a wonderful guy and his wife Doris is a sweetheart but he was miscast as a coach. I think we were in Chicago and it was late it the season. We'd won the Cup in '70, we blew it, well, with Dryden and all that and Jean Beliveau's double-overtime goal or whatever in the 7th, whatever it was. Anyway. And we knew that we screwed that up. We were a bunch of party guys, we were swashbucklers or whatever you wanted to say. We were never overconfident but we liked to party. When the game was over, on the road in particular, everybody showed up. We all showed up, had our beverages, we usually put five bucks in the hat, ordered draft beer, had burgers, you know. And we all talked about, you know, hockey.

          "But then it started to drift a little bit. And so I remember once we were in Chicago and it was late in the season and we were all sitting around talking about, 'cause most of us were around for the '70 Cup, and it just kind of snowballed. Somebody had said something and I don't, I can't be specific but it was so much fun winning the Stanley Cup and we said let's win it again. We got to win it again, no matter what. Bullshit to anything else, it's up to us, the players. And this kind of reverberated around with the beers and the burgers and the peanuts on the floor and all the shit that we were in, in Chicago, I'm pretty sure. And we decided right then and there no matter what and I don't mean to demean Tom Johnson but he didn't count, we count. And we're going to win the Cup again. And everybody bought in, a little bit like the three Musketeers, you know, kind of thing. And we said we're going to remind each other, every game all the way, along the way, for whatever's left, there wasn't much left in the season. That we're going to win the Cup no matter what. And we just, and I think that mantra, that theme, that thing reverberated all the time. Somebody would remind, remember? Come on, we're going to, yep, yep, okay. Yep, yep. And it really did. There's no reason for me to remember that other than that it happened. "

          So you can see that the players took on their winning attitude on their own. Fred Stanfield added this.

          "Tommy was very quiet, didn't have to say very much because the team, when he got behind the bench and started coaching, the team was already matured and he had a set team, pretty much. So it was kind of a nice position to be in. If I was coaching, I'd love to have a team like that. [laughter] Tom was good, he liked the players. He did a nice job with us. He took us and we won the second one in '72. We beat the Rangers in New York."

          So again it seems that the coach didn't have a big influence. I got the impression that Bep Guidolin wasn't popular but that Jacques Plante not playing well was the reason the lost in the 1973 playoffs, it wasn't the fault of the coach.

          Jay in Milford

          --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Craig" <bflynn3@...> wrote:
          >
          > Tonight while driving home I heard former player agent and Maple Leaf official Bill Watters state that the Boston Bruins of the late 60's early 70's should have been a dynasty and won 4-5 Stanley Cups with the talent that they had. He also claimed that in their losses to Montreal in 1969 and 1971 as well as Philly in 1974 they were outcoached and placed the blame for those losses on Harry Sinden, Tom Johnson and Bep Guidlon. He also said the same about the Don Cherry era Bruins in so far as their loss in 1979 to Montreal.
          >
          > I agree that with the talent on the Bruins in the early 70's they should have been more successful - but outcoached? Hmm not sure. Any thoughts?
          >
          > Craig
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • William Underwood
          While there is much to be said for the talent level of that team, I have to agree it wasn t pure coaching. I had heard this stuff about the Bruins before, one
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 7, 2009
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            While there is much to be said for the talent level of that team, I have to
            agree it wasn't pure coaching. I had heard this stuff about the Bruins
            before, one guy once said to me who had worked for them at the time."at
            playoff time the Canadiens would go off to the Laurentians to focus, our
            guys were out partying."



            And I think that there were other factors.the Habs had some great teams!
            One could make as powerful an argument that had Dryden not sat out and they
            had not lost the odd guy to the WHA, they may have won 5 or 6 straight! Then
            there were goalies, Dryden played as well as any goalie ever has in that 71
            final and Parent flat out was better than Gilbert in 74.



            As for Cherry's teams.they were fun and gritty but just were not in the same
            class as Montreal or the Islanders. I frankly think that what Grapes did
            with them was really quite amazing. The fact that they were even IN THE
            SERIES as long as they were with Les Habitants was pretty darn good! Yes
            they had that too many men call and sorry Boston fans, the call was legit!
            Sure THAT was at least in part a coaching error, but gang, had Grapes not
            done his job well up to then, the point would have been moot, they would
            have been on the golf course arguing over spotting a ball instead of that
            call!



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • northernale18
            ... official Bill Watters state that the Boston Bruins of the late 60 s early 70 s should have been a dynasty and won 4-5 Stanley Cups with the talent that
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 7, 2009
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              --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Craig" <bflynn3@...> wrote:
              >
              > Tonight while driving home I heard former player agent and Maple Leaf
              official Bill Watters state that the Boston Bruins of the late 60's
              early 70's should have been a dynasty and won 4-5 Stanley Cups with the
              talent that they had. He also claimed that in their losses to Montreal
              in 1969 and 1971 as well as Philly in 1974 they were outcoached and
              placed the blame for those losses on Harry Sinden, Tom Johnson and Bep
              Guidlon. He also said the same about the Don Cherry era Bruins in so far
              as their loss in 1979 to Montreal.
              >
              > I agree that with the talent on the Bruins in the early 70's they
              should have been more successful - but outcoached? Hmm not sure. Any
              thoughts?
              >
              > Craig
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • epenaltybox
              Phil Esposito has said on XM Radio that his Bruins should have won more Cups, but he says the real reason they didn t had little to do with coaching and more
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 8, 2009
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                Phil Esposito has said on XM Radio that his Bruins should have won more Cups, but he says the real reason they didn't had little to do with coaching and more to the fact that the players likes to go out and have a good time - they just weren't dedicated to winning. However, when he was traded to the Rangers, Espo said he was appalled at how the Rangers acted as if they didn't care after a loss. He recalls his first game was in Oakland, and the Seals beat the Rangers, and the Rangers weren't the least bit upset.

                Morey

                --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "northernale18" <northernale@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Craig" <bflynn3@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Tonight while driving home I heard former player agent and Maple Leaf
                > official Bill Watters state that the Boston Bruins of the late 60's
                > early 70's should have been a dynasty and won 4-5 Stanley Cups with the
                > talent that they had. He also claimed that in their losses to Montreal
                > in 1969 and 1971 as well as Philly in 1974 they were outcoached and
                > placed the blame for those losses on Harry Sinden, Tom Johnson and Bep
                > Guidlon. He also said the same about the Don Cherry era Bruins in so far
                > as their loss in 1979 to Montreal.
                > >
                > > I agree that with the talent on the Bruins in the early 70's they
                > should have been more successful - but outcoached? Hmm not sure. Any
                > thoughts?
                > >
                > > Craig
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
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