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Stafford Smythe/Harold Ballard

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  • craig_1965ca
    Question for everyone here. Back in the late 60 s/early 70 s when Stafford Smythe and Harold Ballard were charged and Ballard later convicted (Smythe died
    Message 1 of 5 , May 13, 2008
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      Question for everyone here.

      Back in the late 60's/early 70's when Stafford Smythe and Harold
      Ballard were charged and Ballard later convicted (Smythe died before
      his trail) for stealing money from the Toronto Maple Leafs, how did
      Ballard keep control of the Toronto Maple Leafs? He went to jail after
      all for stealing from the team. Doesn't the NHL or didn't the NHL have
      any sort of guidelines/policies that would allow the league to "lift
      the franchise" from someone who is convicted of a felony directly
      related to the operation of the team? As well how did the Hockey Hall
      of Fame allow Ballard in after his conviction and then justify kicking
      out Alan Eagleson?

      Craig
    • epenaltybox
      I can answer part of your question. I asked that same question, and sources inside the Hall of Fame told me that Ballard and Bill Wirtz controlled the Hall of
      Message 2 of 5 , May 15, 2008
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        I can answer part of your question. I asked that same question, and
        sources inside the Hall of Fame told me that Ballard and Bill Wirtz
        controlled the Hall of Fame selection committee.

        As far as the "convicted of a felony" part, the NHL held no
        guidelines in that area, nor did they had league guidelines in any
        area of conflict of interest until the late 60s.

        As far as Ballard's "stealing" from the team in which he owned a
        significant percentage, that's like jaywalking compared to some of
        the other things the NHL had done over the years, especially inits
        earlier years. But then again, it's national news when a single mom
        working at a Tim Horton's gives a Timbit away, so I don't know...

        I've been reading about a fascinating story - may write a paper on it
        someday - about Billy McNeill. McNeill and Red Kelly were traded to
        the NY Rangers. They refused to go - don't know if McNeill really
        had it on his own accord, and he passed away last August. Three days
        later, Kelly was traded to the Leafs, and McNeill was suspended for
        the season.

        Morey

        --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "craig_1965ca" <bflynn3@...> wrote:
        >
        > Question for everyone here.
        >
        > Back in the late 60's/early 70's when Stafford Smythe and Harold
        > Ballard were charged and Ballard later convicted (Smythe died
        before
        > his trail) for stealing money from the Toronto Maple Leafs, how did
        > Ballard keep control of the Toronto Maple Leafs? He went to jail
        after
        > all for stealing from the team. Doesn't the NHL or didn't the NHL
        have
        > any sort of guidelines/policies that would allow the league
        to "lift
        > the franchise" from someone who is convicted of a felony directly
        > related to the operation of the team? As well how did the Hockey
        Hall
        > of Fame allow Ballard in after his conviction and then justify
        kicking
        > out Alan Eagleson?
        >
        > Craig
        >
      • DAVE SOUTTER
        Morey: I didn t know Billy McNeill died. Where was he living and was he ill? He played briefly here in SLC with the Golden Eagles near the and of his career
        Message 3 of 5 , May 15, 2008
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          Morey:

          I didn't know Billy McNeill died. Where was he living and was he ill?

          He played briefly here in SLC with the Golden Eagles near the and of his career in the old WHL, and IIRC, the San Diego Gulls were his last hurrah.

          Anyway, I heard a similar story regarding the trade you described years ago. After his refusal to report, he was pretty much "buried" in the minors, although he did resurface with Detroit from time to time. What year was the attempted trade?

          -Dave Soutter


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: epenaltybox<mailto:epenaltybox@...>
          To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:54 PM
          Subject: [hockhist] Re: Stafford Smythe/Harold Ballard


          I can answer part of your question. I asked that same question, and
          sources inside the Hall of Fame told me that Ballard and Bill Wirtz
          controlled the Hall of Fame selection committee.

          As far as the "convicted of a felony" part, the NHL held no
          guidelines in that area, nor did they had league guidelines in any
          area of conflict of interest until the late 60s.

          As far as Ballard's "stealing" from the team in which he owned a
          significant percentage, that's like jaywalking compared to some of
          the other things the NHL had done over the years, especially inits
          earlier years. But then again, it's national news when a single mom
          working at a Tim Horton's gives a Timbit away, so I don't know...

          I've been reading about a fascinating story - may write a paper on it
          someday - about Billy McNeill. McNeill and Red Kelly were traded to
          the NY Rangers. They refused to go - don't know if McNeill really
          had it on his own accord, and he passed away last August. Three days
          later, Kelly was traded to the Leafs, and McNeill was suspended for
          the season.

          Morey

          --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:hockhist%40yahoogroups.com>, "craig_1965ca" <bflynn3@...> wrote:
          >
          > Question for everyone here.
          >
          > Back in the late 60's/early 70's when Stafford Smythe and Harold
          > Ballard were charged and Ballard later convicted (Smythe died
          before
          > his trail) for stealing money from the Toronto Maple Leafs, how did
          > Ballard keep control of the Toronto Maple Leafs? He went to jail
          after
          > all for stealing from the team. Doesn't the NHL or didn't the NHL
          have
          > any sort of guidelines/policies that would allow the league
          to "lift
          > the franchise" from someone who is convicted of a felony directly
          > related to the operation of the team? As well how did the Hockey
          Hall
          > of Fame allow Ballard in after his conviction and then justify
          kicking
          > out Alan Eagleson?
          >
          > Craig
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • epenaltybox
          Billy died of cancer in Vancouver. The trade was in Feb 1960, four days before Red Kelly was shipped off to Toronto. Morey ... ill? ... of his career in the
          Message 4 of 5 , May 16, 2008
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            Billy died of cancer in Vancouver. The trade was in Feb 1960, four
            days before Red Kelly was shipped off to Toronto.

            Morey

            --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "DAVE SOUTTER" <dsoutter@...> wrote:
            >
            > Morey:
            >
            > I didn't know Billy McNeill died. Where was he living and was he
            ill?
            >
            > He played briefly here in SLC with the Golden Eagles near the and
            of his career in the old WHL, and IIRC, the San Diego Gulls were his
            last hurrah.
            >
            > Anyway, I heard a similar story regarding the trade you described
            years ago. After his refusal to report, he was pretty much "buried"
            in the minors, although he did resurface with Detroit from time to
            time. What year was the attempted trade?
            >
            > -Dave Soutter
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: epenaltybox<mailto:epenaltybox@...>
            > To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:54 PM
            > Subject: [hockhist] Re: Stafford Smythe/Harold Ballard
            >
            >
            > I can answer part of your question. I asked that same question,
            and
            > sources inside the Hall of Fame told me that Ballard and Bill
            Wirtz
            > controlled the Hall of Fame selection committee.
            >
            > As far as the "convicted of a felony" part, the NHL held no
            > guidelines in that area, nor did they had league guidelines in
            any
            > area of conflict of interest until the late 60s.
            >
            > As far as Ballard's "stealing" from the team in which he owned a
            > significant percentage, that's like jaywalking compared to some
            of
            > the other things the NHL had done over the years, especially
            inits
            > earlier years. But then again, it's national news when a single
            mom
            > working at a Tim Horton's gives a Timbit away, so I don't know...
            >
            > I've been reading about a fascinating story - may write a paper
            on it
            > someday - about Billy McNeill. McNeill and Red Kelly were traded
            to
            > the NY Rangers. They refused to go - don't know if McNeill really
            > had it on his own accord, and he passed away last August. Three
            days
            > later, Kelly was traded to the Leafs, and McNeill was suspended
            for
            > the season.
            >
            > Morey
            >
            > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:hockhist%
            40yahoogroups.com>, "craig_1965ca" <bflynn3@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Question for everyone here.
            > >
            > > Back in the late 60's/early 70's when Stafford Smythe and
            Harold
            > > Ballard were charged and Ballard later convicted (Smythe died
            > before
            > > his trail) for stealing money from the Toronto Maple Leafs, how
            did
            > > Ballard keep control of the Toronto Maple Leafs? He went to
            jail
            > after
            > > all for stealing from the team. Doesn't the NHL or didn't the
            NHL
            > have
            > > any sort of guidelines/policies that would allow the league
            > to "lift
            > > the franchise" from someone who is convicted of a felony
            directly
            > > related to the operation of the team? As well how did the
            Hockey
            > Hall
            > > of Fame allow Ballard in after his conviction and then justify
            > kicking
            > > out Alan Eagleson?
            > >
            > > Craig
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • William Underwood
            The Kelly trade to TO was interesting too. Imlach got permission to talk to him and got his number though priest that King Clancy and Kelly knew. They met him
            Message 5 of 5 , May 16, 2008
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              The Kelly trade to TO was interesting too. Imlach got permission to talk to
              him and got his number though priest that King Clancy and Kelly knew. They
              met him in a hotel and as I recall some of the Canadiens were in the lobby
              none the wiser and one even said hello to him. Kelly said he would come and
              Adams was SO PISSED at him he essentially gave him away saying something to
              the effect of "you can have the !@#$%^." It was all in one of Imlach's
              books.which may I add are just great if you are interested in an often
              tumultuous yet glorious decade of the Leafs, the building of the Sabres and
              finally, life working for Ballard.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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