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Re: [hockhist] Plante vs the Soviets

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  • Lloyd Davis
    The game was played on December 15, 1965, at the Montreal Forum, before 14,981. Montreal won, 2-1. Another ringer in the Junior Canadiens lineup was Norm
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 22, 2008
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      The game was played on December 15, 1965, at the Montreal Forum,
      before 14,981. Montreal won, 2-1.

      Another ringer in the Junior Canadiens' lineup was Norm Dennis of the
      Habs' CPHL farm team, the Houston Apollos, who scored the winning goal.

      The Soviets had defeated the Canadian National Team in London,
      Ontario, on the 10th, and in Quebec City on the 12th. On the 14th
      they beat the OHA Junior All-Stars at Maple Leaf Gardens. They landed
      in Toronto on December 9, having flown from Sweden, where they
      defeated the Swedish nationals three straight. According to Raymond
      Plante in Jacques Plante: Behind the Mask, the scores were 4-0 in
      London and 8-6 in Quebec.

      According to Andy O'Brien's book about Jacques Plante, the CAHA and
      the Soviet federation agreed that six professionals would be allowed
      to play in the game. The same format had been followed in 1964, when
      the Junior Canadiens used Gump Worsley, Doug Harvey, Red Berenson,
      Léon Rochefort, Bill Sutherland and John Hanna of the AHL's Quebec
      Aces, and lost 3-2.

      According to Raymond Plante, the 1965 ringers, in addition to Dennis,
      were Noël PIcard, Jean Gauthier, Bill Inglis and André Boudrias. It
      was coach Scotty Bowman's idea to approach Plante.

      Plante was working as a sales rep for the Molson brewery at the time.
      Since retiring from the Rangers, he'd played some oldtimers' matches.

      Among the Junior Canadiens' regulars: Larry Pleau, Serge Savard,
      Carol Vadnais, Christian Bordeleau, Jacques Lemaire.

      Following is not a complete roster for the Soviets, but these are
      players mentioned in O'Brien and Plante's books, as well as
      contemporary accounts of games: Viktor Zinger was the Soviet goalie;
      skaters included Alexander Almetov, Victor Polupanov, Veniamin
      Alexandrov, Vladimir Brezhnev, Alexander Ragulin, Vyacheslav
      Starshinov, Vladimir Vikulov, Anatoli Firsov, Boris Mayorov, Igor
      Romishevsky, Konstantin Loktev, Anatoly Ionov.

      Tarasov and Chernichov were behind the Soviet bench.

      On December 17, the Soviets were in Winnipeg to beat the Canadian
      nationals, 6-2. On the 20th, in Victoria, the Canadians won 6-1. On
      the 21st, the Soviets beat the Regina Caps senior team 11-2.
      Essentially, then, the Soviets played a mix of junior and senior
      teams over the course of their tour. I don't imagine the inclusion of
      pros in the Jr. Canadiens' roster was a major point of negotiation.


      On 22-Mar-08, at 9:56 AM, Larry Sekuler wrote:
      > Plante was an addition to the Montreal Junior Canadiens roster to
      > play the Soviets in the game, which I understand took place in 1967
      > and was a 2-1 win for the Junior Canadiens. How Plante could have
      > qualified to join a junior team is beyond me, but I guess for one
      > exhibition game, the Soviets agreed to it.

      --
      Lloyd Davis
      Butterfield 8 Inc.
      19 Tennis Crescent, #6
      Toronto, ON M4K 1J4
      416 462 0230
      ldaviseditor@...
      --
    • wymanmike
      Had a longer reply but Lloyd said anything I did and more. Will add a little tidbit though. Also in the Baby Habs lineup was Robin Burns, who later suited up
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 22, 2008
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        Had a longer reply but Lloyd said anything I did and more. Will add a
        little tidbit though.

        Also in the Baby Habs lineup was Robin Burns, who later suited up with
        the Penguins and the mighty Kansas City Scouts. Since then he's made
        more of a name for himself in the equipment business than he ever did
        on the ice.

        Most guys who make it to the NHL were the best player on some team at
        some level on the way up but Burns proudly states that he was third-
        liner from Peewee on.
      • William Underwood
        I m sure that they just wanted to give the kids a better chance (the Soviets often allowed this type of stuff so as to have a better game), draw a batter gate
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 22, 2008
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          I'm sure that they just wanted to give the kids a better chance (the Soviets
          often allowed this type of stuff so as to have a better game), draw a batter
          gate (remember the Soviets were always very profit minded for Marxists!:-))
          and on a hockey note, to play against the man who wrote the book on
          goaltending.the Soviets were the world's foremost hockey students ALWAYS
          looking to learn.I once attended a symposium that Tarasov spoke at and he
          used an old Russian proverb that I will never forget and try to live
          by."live a hundred years, learn a hundred years. For a funny side note, our
          secretary typoed it into "live a hundred years, love a hundred years. :-)



          Now as to the date.I'm not sure.I do know that Bobby Orr played against the
          Soviets with the OHA all stars which hints that it may have been on the same
          tour in 65.however we also know that the Sovs came over for a Centennial
          tourney in 67.we also know that Plante retired with an asthmatic condition
          in 65. But he also attended camp with Oakland in 67 so he was obviously
          eying a come back at that point. The 1975 could have been a misprint meaning
          65.There MUST be a press record of this in Montreal that would clear it up
          if anyone has access to their archives! Now another interesting facet was
          that Scotty Bowman coached the baby Habs in 65 and as I recall part of his
          decision to get Plante and a connection to him was his playing in that
          Soviet game. I also seem to recall that in something about the Seals I read
          that Plante had not played since that game when he went to their camp in 67.
          So a good part of me wants to say 65.based upon the fact that the Sovs were
          on tour playing in part junior opponents while Orr was in the OHA which was
          63-6 , the Bowman/Plante connection, and I recall seeing that date in a
          couple of sources. My bet is 65.but I could be wrong, I think the Montreal
          papers are the logical place to look for a once and for all. :-)



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • paul_patskou
          I just pulled the film of the game to watch, it seems like Jacques Plante had the Soviets shooters figured out and anticipated their moves. At the end of the
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 22, 2008
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            I just pulled the film of the game to watch, it seems like Jacques
            Plante had the Soviets shooters figured out and anticipated their
            moves. At the end of the game, the Junior Canadiens lifted Plante
            and carried him on their shoulders from the net to the bench. There
            was much excitement in the Forum crowd as well.


            --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, Lloyd Davis <ldaviseditor@...> wrote:
            >
            > The game was played on December 15, 1965, at the Montreal Forum,
            > before 14,981. Montreal won, 2-1.
            >
            > Another ringer in the Junior Canadiens' lineup was Norm Dennis of
            the
            > Habs' CPHL farm team, the Houston Apollos, who scored the winning
            goal.
            >
            > The Soviets had defeated the Canadian National Team in London,
            > Ontario, on the 10th, and in Quebec City on the 12th. On the 14th
            > they beat the OHA Junior All-Stars at Maple Leaf Gardens. They
            landed
            > in Toronto on December 9, having flown from Sweden, where they
            > defeated the Swedish nationals three straight. According to
            Raymond
            > Plante in Jacques Plante: Behind the Mask, the scores were 4-0 in
            > London and 8-6 in Quebec.
            >
            > According to Andy O'Brien's book about Jacques Plante, the CAHA
            and
            > the Soviet federation agreed that six professionals would be
            allowed
            > to play in the game. The same format had been followed in 1964,
            when
            > the Junior Canadiens used Gump Worsley, Doug Harvey, Red Berenson,
            > Léon Rochefort, Bill Sutherland and John Hanna of the AHL's Quebec
            > Aces, and lost 3-2.
            >
            > According to Raymond Plante, the 1965 ringers, in addition to
            Dennis,
            > were Noël PIcard, Jean Gauthier, Bill Inglis and André Boudrias.
            It
            > was coach Scotty Bowman's idea to approach Plante.
            >
            > Plante was working as a sales rep for the Molson brewery at the
            time.
            > Since retiring from the Rangers, he'd played some oldtimers'
            matches.
            >
            > Among the Junior Canadiens' regulars: Larry Pleau, Serge Savard,
            > Carol Vadnais, Christian Bordeleau, Jacques Lemaire.
            >
            > Following is not a complete roster for the Soviets, but these are
            > players mentioned in O'Brien and Plante's books, as well as
            > contemporary accounts of games: Viktor Zinger was the Soviet
            goalie;
            > skaters included Alexander Almetov, Victor Polupanov, Veniamin
            > Alexandrov, Vladimir Brezhnev, Alexander Ragulin, Vyacheslav
            > Starshinov, Vladimir Vikulov, Anatoli Firsov, Boris Mayorov, Igor
            > Romishevsky, Konstantin Loktev, Anatoly Ionov.
            >
            > Tarasov and Chernichov were behind the Soviet bench.
            >
            > On December 17, the Soviets were in Winnipeg to beat the Canadian
            > nationals, 6-2. On the 20th, in Victoria, the Canadians won 6-1.
            On
            > the 21st, the Soviets beat the Regina Caps senior team 11-2.
            > Essentially, then, the Soviets played a mix of junior and senior
            > teams over the course of their tour. I don't imagine the inclusion
            of
            > pros in the Jr. Canadiens' roster was a major point of negotiation.
            >
            >
            > On 22-Mar-08, at 9:56 AM, Larry Sekuler wrote:
            > > Plante was an addition to the Montreal Junior Canadiens roster
            to
            > > play the Soviets in the game, which I understand took place in
            1967
            > > and was a 2-1 win for the Junior Canadiens. How Plante could
            have
            > > qualified to join a junior team is beyond me, but I guess for
            one
            > > exhibition game, the Soviets agreed to it.
            >
            > --
            > Lloyd Davis
            > Butterfield 8 Inc.
            > 19 Tennis Crescent, #6
            > Toronto, ON M4K 1J4
            > 416 462 0230
            > ldaviseditor@...
            > --
            >
          • Lloyd Davis
            An article by Frank Orr in December 1965 (Claude Rains chimes in to make note of the date) makes that very point. They are in this country for one purpose: to
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 22, 2008
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              An article by Frank Orr in December 1965 (Claude Rains chimes in to
              make note of the date) makes that very point.

              "They are in this country for one purpose: to improve the calibre of
              their hockey. Although they had a tough time beating the junior all-
              stars here and were edged by a compbination of Junior Canadiens,
              minor pros and Jacques Plante in Montreal, the Russians were learning.

              "At a Leaf practice, Anatoli Tarasov, the loveable old Russian coach,
              took down notes roughly equal to the length of War and Peace. These
              tips will be filed away in Tarasov's book of ways to beat the
              Canadians at their own game."

              On 22-Mar-08, at 12:08 PM, William Underwood wrote:
              > I once attended a symposium that Tarasov spoke at and he
              > used an old Russian proverb that I will never forget and try to live
              > by."live a hundred years, learn a hundred years. For a funny side
              > note, our
              > secretary typoed it into "live a hundred years, love a hundred
              > years. :-)

              --
              Lloyd Davis
              Butterfield 8 Inc.
              19 Tennis Crescent, #6
              Toronto, ON M4K 1J4
              416 462 0230
              ldaviseditor@...
              --
            • William Underwood
              WOW! A FILM? Where did you find that! That is GREAT! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 23, 2008
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                WOW! A FILM? Where did you find that! That is GREAT!



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • paul_patskou
                It came from a Montreal TV station. Finding these gems are a result of a lot of hard work, persistence and of course many $$$ Some of my best finds are of
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 23, 2008
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                  It came from a Montreal TV station. Finding these gems are a result of
                  a lot of hard work, persistence and of course many $$$

                  Some of my best finds are of International hockey and there are some
                  recent footage discoveries that were thought not to exist.

                  The footage from the final game in 1942 when Toronto made its great
                  comeback against Detroit reveals how the goalie was so far out of the
                  net on Pete Langelle's winning goal. If anyone has seen the famous
                  Turofsky photo, they'll know what I mean.



                  --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "William Underwood" <wausport@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > WOW! A FILM? Where did you find that! That is GREAT!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • William Underwood
                  Too bad you don t sell copies (I m not so sure about the copyrights), I think I know quite a few customers.:-) [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 24, 2008
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                    Too bad you don't sell copies (I'm not so sure about the copyrights), I
                    think I know quite a few customers.:-)



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Paul Patskou
                    I can t sell copies because of copyrights in many cases. The last thing I need is to see the footage being offered on EBAY. If someone had other rare footage
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 24, 2008
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                      I can't sell copies because of copyrights in many
                      cases. The last thing I need is to see the footage
                      being offered on EBAY.

                      If someone had other rare footage to trade, then
                      something could be worked out on certain items only.


                      --- William Underwood <wausport@...>
                      wrote:

                      > Too bad you don't sell copies (I'm not so sure about
                      > the copyrights), I
                      > think I know quite a few customers.:-)
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >



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