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Re: German Hockey

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  • craig_1965ca
    Martin, Thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected! Please know that I meant no disrespect for the German hockey program. Craig ... players like Erich
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 1, 2007
      Martin,

      Thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected! Please know that
      I meant no disrespect for the German hockey program.

      Craig


      --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, Martin Schmid <icemartl@...> wrote:
      >
      > Craig,
      >
      > There have been some great successes of the German team.
      > They won the bronze medal at the 1976 olympics with such great
      players like Erich Kühnhackl, Udo Kießling or Alois Schloder, just to
      name a few.
      > Unfortunately, I was only five years old at that time, so I can't
      remember this "German miracle on ice" personally.
      >
      > But there was one game against the Czech Republic at the World Cup
      of Hockey some years ago that I will never forget.
      > The Czech team had all their stars in the lineup (Jaromir Jagr,
      etc.), and believe it or not, our German team won 7-1.
      >
      >
      > Martin
      >
      >
      >
      > craig_1965ca <bflynn3@...> schrieb:
      Michael,
      >
      > No thanks needed - I learned something very interesting and
      enjoyed
      > your comments. I am in Germany next week on business (passing
      through
      > on my way to Moldova - part of the old USSR) and hope to at least
      > read a few local papers and check out their hockey coverage.
      >
      > I do find it very interesting that when you consider how long
      Germany
      > has competed internationally at the very highest levels (World
      > Championships, Olympics and once the Canada Cup) how they have
      never
      > even once had a cinderella team and staged a big upset or surprise
      > everyone with a big medal win. Heck even Poland beat the USSR
      (back
      > in 1977 I believe.) I can't think of any other team in this
      position.
      >
      > By the way how did West Germany end up in the 1984 Canada Cup in
      > place of Finland?
      >
      > Craig
      >
      > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Poplawski"
      > <michael.poplawski@> wrote:
      > >
      > > On Nov 28, 2007 4:13 PM, craig_1965ca <bflynn3@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Michael,
      > > >
      > > > That was very interesting and informative. Thank you!
      > >
      > > Thanks, you flatter me. I read more about the DEL yesterday.
      Wow,
      > what
      > > a mess they have had in Germany, and it's not exactly a thing of
      the
      > > past, either. Financial problems, battles between top league and
      the
      > > national hockey federation. Yecch. At least they still respect
      the
      > > international calendar there.
      > >
      > > Something I think the NHL could learn from the DEL is awarding
      three
      > > points for each game (a shootout win results in a 2-1 point
      split).
      > I
      > > can't understand why the NHL tacitly encourages teams to play
      > > conservatively late in close games when they admit the game
      should
      > be
      > > opened up.
      > >
      > > I suppose two major pieces of news out of Germany is that next
      year
      > > they will demote teams once again (the DEL only had teams
      promoted
      > > *to* it for several years, expanding the league) and that they
      will
      > > enforce a 52-game schedule by creating a mildly unbalanced
      schedule
      > > next season (with 15 teams, it's 56 games this season).
      > >
      > > --
      > > Michael Poplawski
      > > Victoria, BC Canada
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Martin Schmid
      No problem, Craig. You are right that German hockey has a lot of problems and difficulties and Michael showed some great knowledge in explaining the reasons. I
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 1, 2007
        No problem, Craig.

        You are right that German hockey has a lot of problems and difficulties and Michael showed some great knowledge in explaining the reasons.

        I admit that Germany will probably never win a big tournament or play constantly on a high level, but on a good day, they are able to beat almost every opponent. But these days don't happen too often.......

        One of the main things is that only a few thousand boys play junior hockey in Germany and the circumstances are not easy. There are only a few clubs who apploy good coaches for their junior players, in some clubs parents do the coaching. In Switzerland, for example, each club has at least three or four skilled coaches only for junior players.
        And the young players in Germany have not much time on ice for training, only two or three times a week, because they have to share the ice rink with many other people like figure skaters or Eisstockshooters (I don't know the English word, it's similar to curling).
        There are some clubs like Mannheim or Eisbären Berlin who spend a lot of money on their junior teams but other teams like Duisburg or Hamburg prefer buying one more player from the Canadian minor leagues instead of helping junior players.

        I hope this will improve in the future (I'm always an optimistic), but the German DEL-clubs have disappointed the fans in Germany too often.

        And one thing is sure (like Michael said): A puck is not a ball and hockey in Germany will never ever have a chance against football.


        Martin



        craig_1965ca <bflynn3@...> schrieb: Martin,

        Thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected! Please know that
        I meant no disrespect for the German hockey program.

        Craig

        --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, Martin Schmid <icemartl@...> wrote:
        >
        > Craig,
        >
        > There have been some great successes of the German team.
        > They won the bronze medal at the 1976 olympics with such great
        players like Erich Kühnhackl, Udo Kießling or Alois Schloder, just to
        name a few.
        > Unfortunately, I was only five years old at that time, so I can't
        remember this "German miracle on ice" personally.
        >
        > But there was one game against the Czech Republic at the World Cup
        of Hockey some years ago that I will never forget.
        > The Czech team had all their stars in the lineup (Jaromir Jagr,
        etc.), and believe it or not, our German team won 7-1.
        >
        >
        > Martin
        >
        >
        >
        > craig_1965ca <bflynn3@...> schrieb:
        Michael,
        >
        > No thanks needed - I learned something very interesting and
        enjoyed
        > your comments. I am in Germany next week on business (passing
        through
        > on my way to Moldova - part of the old USSR) and hope to at least
        > read a few local papers and check out their hockey coverage.
        >
        > I do find it very interesting that when you consider how long
        Germany
        > has competed internationally at the very highest levels (World
        > Championships, Olympics and once the Canada Cup) how they have
        never
        > even once had a cinderella team and staged a big upset or surprise
        > everyone with a big medal win. Heck even Poland beat the USSR
        (back
        > in 1977 I believe.) I can't think of any other team in this
        position.
        >
        > By the way how did West Germany end up in the 1984 Canada Cup in
        > place of Finland?
        >
        > Craig
        >
        > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Poplawski"
        > <michael.poplawski@> wrote:
        > >
        > > On Nov 28, 2007 4:13 PM, craig_1965ca <bflynn3@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Michael,
        > > >
        > > > That was very interesting and informative. Thank you!
        > >
        > > Thanks, you flatter me. I read more about the DEL yesterday.
        Wow,
        > what
        > > a mess they have had in Germany, and it's not exactly a thing of
        the
        > > past, either. Financial problems, battles between top league and
        the
        > > national hockey federation. Yecch. At least they still respect
        the
        > > international calendar there.
        > >
        > > Something I think the NHL could learn from the DEL is awarding
        three
        > > points for each game (a shootout win results in a 2-1 point
        split).
        > I
        > > can't understand why the NHL tacitly encourages teams to play
        > > conservatively late in close games when they admit the game
        should
        > be
        > > opened up.
        > >
        > > I suppose two major pieces of news out of Germany is that next
        year
        > > they will demote teams once again (the DEL only had teams
        promoted
        > > *to* it for several years, expanding the league) and that they
        will
        > > enforce a 52-game schedule by creating a mildly unbalanced
        schedule
        > > next season (with 15 teams, it's 56 games this season).
        > >
        > > --
        > > Michael Poplawski
        > > Victoria, BC Canada
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >






        ---------------------------------
        Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mikael Uhlin
        I ve also been wondering about the development of German hockey. Back in the 60s and 50s, there were two German nations with two adequate national teams,
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 2, 2007
          I've also been wondering about the development of German hockey. Back
          in the 60s and 50s, there were two German nations with two adequate
          national teams, alternating between the 5th and 6th positions on a
          European level (after the Soviets, Czechoslovakia, Sweden and
          Finland). Like in the politics, the East German style of hockey was
          heavily influenced by the Soviets, while the West German squad always
          played rougher, sporting a North American style of hockey, at least
          compared with the other European nations.

          When the two nations and national teams were rejoined, instead of
          becoming stronger they got worse! And in addition to the internal
          reasons described earlier in this thread, there were a lot of external
          reasons as well. Switzerland and Austria regained some of the
          icehockey power they had had during the first part of the 20th
          century, both concentrating on developing their junior players. And
          both Norway and Denmark have developed their hockey a lot since the 1980s.

          And as you all know, the map of Europe changed a lot when the cold war
          ended, and the former communist states (and their national icehockey
          teams) split up. Out of Czechoslovakia, we got the Czech republic and
          Slovakia. Out of the USSR, we got Russia, Latvia, Belarus and Ukraine.
          And most of these - if not all - turned out to be better than the
          reunited Germany. In other words, runners-up to the top four in Europe
          (Russia, Sweden, Finland and the Czechs), became Slovakia,
          Switzerland, Denmark, Norway and Latvia. After that, competing with
          the Ukraines and Belarussians for spot #10, we find the Germans. BTW,
          another nation that have disappeared in a similar way is Poland.

          It may also be interesting to note that Eisbären Berlin (the Berlin
          Polar Bears), one of the clubs which Martin mentioned as developing
          their junior hockey, is a remain from the old East German days (when
          they were known as Dynamo Berlin), so I guess there are some old
          traditions there to cherish.

          /Mikael


          --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, Martin Schmid <icemartl@...> wrote:
          >
          > No problem, Craig.
          >
          > You are right that German hockey has a lot of problems and
          difficulties and Michael showed some great knowledge in explaining the
          reasons.
          >
          > I admit that Germany will probably never win a big tournament or
          play constantly on a high level, but on a good day, they are able to
          beat almost every opponent. But these days don't happen too often.......
          >
          > One of the main things is that only a few thousand boys play junior
          hockey in Germany and the circumstances are not easy. There are only a
          few clubs who apploy good coaches for their junior players, in some
          clubs parents do the coaching. In Switzerland, for example, each club
          has at least three or four skilled coaches only for junior players.
          > And the young players in Germany have not much time on ice for
          training, only two or three times a week, because they have to share
          the ice rink with many other people like figure skaters or
          Eisstockshooters (I don't know the English word, it's similar to curling).
          > There are some clubs like Mannheim or Eisbären Berlin who spend a
          lot of money on their junior teams but other teams like Duisburg or
          Hamburg prefer buying one more player from the Canadian minor leagues
          instead of helping junior players.
          >
          > I hope this will improve in the future (I'm always an optimistic),
          but the German DEL-clubs have disappointed the fans in Germany too often.
          >
          > And one thing is sure (like Michael said): A puck is not a ball and
          hockey in Germany will never ever have a chance against football.
          >
          >
          > Martin
          >
          >
          >
          > craig_1965ca <bflynn3@...> schrieb:
          Martin,
          >
          > Thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected! Please know that
          > I meant no disrespect for the German hockey program.
          >
          > Craig
          >
          > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, Martin Schmid <icemartl@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Craig,
          > >
          > > There have been some great successes of the German team.
          > > They won the bronze medal at the 1976 olympics with such great
          > players like Erich Kühnhackl, Udo Kießling or Alois Schloder, just to
          > name a few.
          > > Unfortunately, I was only five years old at that time, so I can't
          > remember this "German miracle on ice" personally.
          > >
          > > But there was one game against the Czech Republic at the World Cup
          > of Hockey some years ago that I will never forget.
          > > The Czech team had all their stars in the lineup (Jaromir Jagr,
          > etc.), and believe it or not, our German team won 7-1.
          > >
          > >
          > > Martin
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > craig_1965ca <bflynn3@> schrieb:
          > Michael,
          > >
          > > No thanks needed - I learned something very interesting and
          > enjoyed
          > > your comments. I am in Germany next week on business (passing
          > through
          > > on my way to Moldova - part of the old USSR) and hope to at least
          > > read a few local papers and check out their hockey coverage.
          > >
          > > I do find it very interesting that when you consider how long
          > Germany
          > > has competed internationally at the very highest levels (World
          > > Championships, Olympics and once the Canada Cup) how they have
          > never
          > > even once had a cinderella team and staged a big upset or surprise
          > > everyone with a big medal win. Heck even Poland beat the USSR
          > (back
          > > in 1977 I believe.) I can't think of any other team in this
          > position.
          > >
          > > By the way how did West Germany end up in the 1984 Canada Cup in
          > > place of Finland?
          > >
          > > Craig
          > >
          > > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Poplawski"
          > > <michael.poplawski@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > On Nov 28, 2007 4:13 PM, craig_1965ca <bflynn3@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Michael,
          > > > >
          > > > > That was very interesting and informative. Thank you!
          > > >
          > > > Thanks, you flatter me. I read more about the DEL yesterday.
          > Wow,
          > > what
          > > > a mess they have had in Germany, and it's not exactly a thing of
          > the
          > > > past, either. Financial problems, battles between top league and
          > the
          > > > national hockey federation. Yecch. At least they still respect
          > the
          > > > international calendar there.
          > > >
          > > > Something I think the NHL could learn from the DEL is awarding
          > three
          > > > points for each game (a shootout win results in a 2-1 point
          > split).
          > > I
          > > > can't understand why the NHL tacitly encourages teams to play
          > > > conservatively late in close games when they admit the game
          > should
          > > be
          > > > opened up.
          > > >
          > > > I suppose two major pieces of news out of Germany is that next
          > year
          > > > they will demote teams once again (the DEL only had teams
          > promoted
          > > > *to* it for several years, expanding the league) and that they
          > will
          > > > enforce a 52-game schedule by creating a mildly unbalanced
          > schedule
          > > > next season (with 15 teams, it's 56 games this season).
          > > >
          > > > --
          > > > Michael Poplawski
          > > > Victoria, BC Canada
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand.
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
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