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RE: [hockhist] Re: German Hockey

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  • Martin Schmid
    Craig, There have been some great successes of the German team. They won the bronze medal at the 1976 olympics with such great players like Erich Kühnhackl,
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 30, 2007
      Craig,

      There have been some great successes of the German team.
      They won the bronze medal at the 1976 olympics with such great players like Erich Kühnhackl, Udo Kießling or Alois Schloder, just to name a few.
      Unfortunately, I was only five years old at that time, so I can't remember this "German miracle on ice" personally.

      But there was one game against the Czech Republic at the World Cup of Hockey some years ago that I will never forget.
      The Czech team had all their stars in the lineup (Jaromir Jagr, etc.), and believe it or not, our German team won 7-1.


      Martin



      craig_1965ca <bflynn3@...> schrieb: Michael,

      No thanks needed - I learned something very interesting and enjoyed
      your comments. I am in Germany next week on business (passing through
      on my way to Moldova - part of the old USSR) and hope to at least
      read a few local papers and check out their hockey coverage.

      I do find it very interesting that when you consider how long Germany
      has competed internationally at the very highest levels (World
      Championships, Olympics and once the Canada Cup) how they have never
      even once had a cinderella team and staged a big upset or surprise
      everyone with a big medal win. Heck even Poland beat the USSR (back
      in 1977 I believe.) I can't think of any other team in this position.

      By the way how did West Germany end up in the 1984 Canada Cup in
      place of Finland?

      Craig

      --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Poplawski"
      <michael.poplawski@...> wrote:
      >
      > On Nov 28, 2007 4:13 PM, craig_1965ca <bflynn3@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Michael,
      > >
      > > That was very interesting and informative. Thank you!
      >
      > Thanks, you flatter me. I read more about the DEL yesterday. Wow,
      what
      > a mess they have had in Germany, and it's not exactly a thing of the
      > past, either. Financial problems, battles between top league and the
      > national hockey federation. Yecch. At least they still respect the
      > international calendar there.
      >
      > Something I think the NHL could learn from the DEL is awarding three
      > points for each game (a shootout win results in a 2-1 point split).
      I
      > can't understand why the NHL tacitly encourages teams to play
      > conservatively late in close games when they admit the game should
      be
      > opened up.
      >
      > I suppose two major pieces of news out of Germany is that next year
      > they will demote teams once again (the DEL only had teams promoted
      > *to* it for several years, expanding the league) and that they will
      > enforce a 52-game schedule by creating a mildly unbalanced schedule
      > next season (with 15 teams, it's 56 games this season).
      >
      > --
      > Michael Poplawski
      > Victoria, BC Canada
      >






      ---------------------------------
      Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • craig_1965ca
      Martin, Thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected! Please know that I meant no disrespect for the German hockey program. Craig ... players like Erich
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 1, 2007
        Martin,

        Thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected! Please know that
        I meant no disrespect for the German hockey program.

        Craig


        --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, Martin Schmid <icemartl@...> wrote:
        >
        > Craig,
        >
        > There have been some great successes of the German team.
        > They won the bronze medal at the 1976 olympics with such great
        players like Erich Kühnhackl, Udo Kießling or Alois Schloder, just to
        name a few.
        > Unfortunately, I was only five years old at that time, so I can't
        remember this "German miracle on ice" personally.
        >
        > But there was one game against the Czech Republic at the World Cup
        of Hockey some years ago that I will never forget.
        > The Czech team had all their stars in the lineup (Jaromir Jagr,
        etc.), and believe it or not, our German team won 7-1.
        >
        >
        > Martin
        >
        >
        >
        > craig_1965ca <bflynn3@...> schrieb:
        Michael,
        >
        > No thanks needed - I learned something very interesting and
        enjoyed
        > your comments. I am in Germany next week on business (passing
        through
        > on my way to Moldova - part of the old USSR) and hope to at least
        > read a few local papers and check out their hockey coverage.
        >
        > I do find it very interesting that when you consider how long
        Germany
        > has competed internationally at the very highest levels (World
        > Championships, Olympics and once the Canada Cup) how they have
        never
        > even once had a cinderella team and staged a big upset or surprise
        > everyone with a big medal win. Heck even Poland beat the USSR
        (back
        > in 1977 I believe.) I can't think of any other team in this
        position.
        >
        > By the way how did West Germany end up in the 1984 Canada Cup in
        > place of Finland?
        >
        > Craig
        >
        > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Poplawski"
        > <michael.poplawski@> wrote:
        > >
        > > On Nov 28, 2007 4:13 PM, craig_1965ca <bflynn3@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Michael,
        > > >
        > > > That was very interesting and informative. Thank you!
        > >
        > > Thanks, you flatter me. I read more about the DEL yesterday.
        Wow,
        > what
        > > a mess they have had in Germany, and it's not exactly a thing of
        the
        > > past, either. Financial problems, battles between top league and
        the
        > > national hockey federation. Yecch. At least they still respect
        the
        > > international calendar there.
        > >
        > > Something I think the NHL could learn from the DEL is awarding
        three
        > > points for each game (a shootout win results in a 2-1 point
        split).
        > I
        > > can't understand why the NHL tacitly encourages teams to play
        > > conservatively late in close games when they admit the game
        should
        > be
        > > opened up.
        > >
        > > I suppose two major pieces of news out of Germany is that next
        year
        > > they will demote teams once again (the DEL only had teams
        promoted
        > > *to* it for several years, expanding the league) and that they
        will
        > > enforce a 52-game schedule by creating a mildly unbalanced
        schedule
        > > next season (with 15 teams, it's 56 games this season).
        > >
        > > --
        > > Michael Poplawski
        > > Victoria, BC Canada
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Martin Schmid
        No problem, Craig. You are right that German hockey has a lot of problems and difficulties and Michael showed some great knowledge in explaining the reasons. I
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 1, 2007
          No problem, Craig.

          You are right that German hockey has a lot of problems and difficulties and Michael showed some great knowledge in explaining the reasons.

          I admit that Germany will probably never win a big tournament or play constantly on a high level, but on a good day, they are able to beat almost every opponent. But these days don't happen too often.......

          One of the main things is that only a few thousand boys play junior hockey in Germany and the circumstances are not easy. There are only a few clubs who apploy good coaches for their junior players, in some clubs parents do the coaching. In Switzerland, for example, each club has at least three or four skilled coaches only for junior players.
          And the young players in Germany have not much time on ice for training, only two or three times a week, because they have to share the ice rink with many other people like figure skaters or Eisstockshooters (I don't know the English word, it's similar to curling).
          There are some clubs like Mannheim or Eisbären Berlin who spend a lot of money on their junior teams but other teams like Duisburg or Hamburg prefer buying one more player from the Canadian minor leagues instead of helping junior players.

          I hope this will improve in the future (I'm always an optimistic), but the German DEL-clubs have disappointed the fans in Germany too often.

          And one thing is sure (like Michael said): A puck is not a ball and hockey in Germany will never ever have a chance against football.


          Martin



          craig_1965ca <bflynn3@...> schrieb: Martin,

          Thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected! Please know that
          I meant no disrespect for the German hockey program.

          Craig

          --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, Martin Schmid <icemartl@...> wrote:
          >
          > Craig,
          >
          > There have been some great successes of the German team.
          > They won the bronze medal at the 1976 olympics with such great
          players like Erich Kühnhackl, Udo Kießling or Alois Schloder, just to
          name a few.
          > Unfortunately, I was only five years old at that time, so I can't
          remember this "German miracle on ice" personally.
          >
          > But there was one game against the Czech Republic at the World Cup
          of Hockey some years ago that I will never forget.
          > The Czech team had all their stars in the lineup (Jaromir Jagr,
          etc.), and believe it or not, our German team won 7-1.
          >
          >
          > Martin
          >
          >
          >
          > craig_1965ca <bflynn3@...> schrieb:
          Michael,
          >
          > No thanks needed - I learned something very interesting and
          enjoyed
          > your comments. I am in Germany next week on business (passing
          through
          > on my way to Moldova - part of the old USSR) and hope to at least
          > read a few local papers and check out their hockey coverage.
          >
          > I do find it very interesting that when you consider how long
          Germany
          > has competed internationally at the very highest levels (World
          > Championships, Olympics and once the Canada Cup) how they have
          never
          > even once had a cinderella team and staged a big upset or surprise
          > everyone with a big medal win. Heck even Poland beat the USSR
          (back
          > in 1977 I believe.) I can't think of any other team in this
          position.
          >
          > By the way how did West Germany end up in the 1984 Canada Cup in
          > place of Finland?
          >
          > Craig
          >
          > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Poplawski"
          > <michael.poplawski@> wrote:
          > >
          > > On Nov 28, 2007 4:13 PM, craig_1965ca <bflynn3@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Michael,
          > > >
          > > > That was very interesting and informative. Thank you!
          > >
          > > Thanks, you flatter me. I read more about the DEL yesterday.
          Wow,
          > what
          > > a mess they have had in Germany, and it's not exactly a thing of
          the
          > > past, either. Financial problems, battles between top league and
          the
          > > national hockey federation. Yecch. At least they still respect
          the
          > > international calendar there.
          > >
          > > Something I think the NHL could learn from the DEL is awarding
          three
          > > points for each game (a shootout win results in a 2-1 point
          split).
          > I
          > > can't understand why the NHL tacitly encourages teams to play
          > > conservatively late in close games when they admit the game
          should
          > be
          > > opened up.
          > >
          > > I suppose two major pieces of news out of Germany is that next
          year
          > > they will demote teams once again (the DEL only had teams
          promoted
          > > *to* it for several years, expanding the league) and that they
          will
          > > enforce a 52-game schedule by creating a mildly unbalanced
          schedule
          > > next season (with 15 teams, it's 56 games this season).
          > >
          > > --
          > > Michael Poplawski
          > > Victoria, BC Canada
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >






          ---------------------------------
          Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mikael Uhlin
          I ve also been wondering about the development of German hockey. Back in the 60s and 50s, there were two German nations with two adequate national teams,
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 2, 2007
            I've also been wondering about the development of German hockey. Back
            in the 60s and 50s, there were two German nations with two adequate
            national teams, alternating between the 5th and 6th positions on a
            European level (after the Soviets, Czechoslovakia, Sweden and
            Finland). Like in the politics, the East German style of hockey was
            heavily influenced by the Soviets, while the West German squad always
            played rougher, sporting a North American style of hockey, at least
            compared with the other European nations.

            When the two nations and national teams were rejoined, instead of
            becoming stronger they got worse! And in addition to the internal
            reasons described earlier in this thread, there were a lot of external
            reasons as well. Switzerland and Austria regained some of the
            icehockey power they had had during the first part of the 20th
            century, both concentrating on developing their junior players. And
            both Norway and Denmark have developed their hockey a lot since the 1980s.

            And as you all know, the map of Europe changed a lot when the cold war
            ended, and the former communist states (and their national icehockey
            teams) split up. Out of Czechoslovakia, we got the Czech republic and
            Slovakia. Out of the USSR, we got Russia, Latvia, Belarus and Ukraine.
            And most of these - if not all - turned out to be better than the
            reunited Germany. In other words, runners-up to the top four in Europe
            (Russia, Sweden, Finland and the Czechs), became Slovakia,
            Switzerland, Denmark, Norway and Latvia. After that, competing with
            the Ukraines and Belarussians for spot #10, we find the Germans. BTW,
            another nation that have disappeared in a similar way is Poland.

            It may also be interesting to note that Eisbären Berlin (the Berlin
            Polar Bears), one of the clubs which Martin mentioned as developing
            their junior hockey, is a remain from the old East German days (when
            they were known as Dynamo Berlin), so I guess there are some old
            traditions there to cherish.

            /Mikael


            --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, Martin Schmid <icemartl@...> wrote:
            >
            > No problem, Craig.
            >
            > You are right that German hockey has a lot of problems and
            difficulties and Michael showed some great knowledge in explaining the
            reasons.
            >
            > I admit that Germany will probably never win a big tournament or
            play constantly on a high level, but on a good day, they are able to
            beat almost every opponent. But these days don't happen too often.......
            >
            > One of the main things is that only a few thousand boys play junior
            hockey in Germany and the circumstances are not easy. There are only a
            few clubs who apploy good coaches for their junior players, in some
            clubs parents do the coaching. In Switzerland, for example, each club
            has at least three or four skilled coaches only for junior players.
            > And the young players in Germany have not much time on ice for
            training, only two or three times a week, because they have to share
            the ice rink with many other people like figure skaters or
            Eisstockshooters (I don't know the English word, it's similar to curling).
            > There are some clubs like Mannheim or Eisbären Berlin who spend a
            lot of money on their junior teams but other teams like Duisburg or
            Hamburg prefer buying one more player from the Canadian minor leagues
            instead of helping junior players.
            >
            > I hope this will improve in the future (I'm always an optimistic),
            but the German DEL-clubs have disappointed the fans in Germany too often.
            >
            > And one thing is sure (like Michael said): A puck is not a ball and
            hockey in Germany will never ever have a chance against football.
            >
            >
            > Martin
            >
            >
            >
            > craig_1965ca <bflynn3@...> schrieb:
            Martin,
            >
            > Thanks for the clarification and I stand corrected! Please know that
            > I meant no disrespect for the German hockey program.
            >
            > Craig
            >
            > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, Martin Schmid <icemartl@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Craig,
            > >
            > > There have been some great successes of the German team.
            > > They won the bronze medal at the 1976 olympics with such great
            > players like Erich Kühnhackl, Udo Kießling or Alois Schloder, just to
            > name a few.
            > > Unfortunately, I was only five years old at that time, so I can't
            > remember this "German miracle on ice" personally.
            > >
            > > But there was one game against the Czech Republic at the World Cup
            > of Hockey some years ago that I will never forget.
            > > The Czech team had all their stars in the lineup (Jaromir Jagr,
            > etc.), and believe it or not, our German team won 7-1.
            > >
            > >
            > > Martin
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > craig_1965ca <bflynn3@> schrieb:
            > Michael,
            > >
            > > No thanks needed - I learned something very interesting and
            > enjoyed
            > > your comments. I am in Germany next week on business (passing
            > through
            > > on my way to Moldova - part of the old USSR) and hope to at least
            > > read a few local papers and check out their hockey coverage.
            > >
            > > I do find it very interesting that when you consider how long
            > Germany
            > > has competed internationally at the very highest levels (World
            > > Championships, Olympics and once the Canada Cup) how they have
            > never
            > > even once had a cinderella team and staged a big upset or surprise
            > > everyone with a big medal win. Heck even Poland beat the USSR
            > (back
            > > in 1977 I believe.) I can't think of any other team in this
            > position.
            > >
            > > By the way how did West Germany end up in the 1984 Canada Cup in
            > > place of Finland?
            > >
            > > Craig
            > >
            > > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Poplawski"
            > > <michael.poplawski@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > On Nov 28, 2007 4:13 PM, craig_1965ca <bflynn3@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Michael,
            > > > >
            > > > > That was very interesting and informative. Thank you!
            > > >
            > > > Thanks, you flatter me. I read more about the DEL yesterday.
            > Wow,
            > > what
            > > > a mess they have had in Germany, and it's not exactly a thing of
            > the
            > > > past, either. Financial problems, battles between top league and
            > the
            > > > national hockey federation. Yecch. At least they still respect
            > the
            > > > international calendar there.
            > > >
            > > > Something I think the NHL could learn from the DEL is awarding
            > three
            > > > points for each game (a shootout win results in a 2-1 point
            > split).
            > > I
            > > > can't understand why the NHL tacitly encourages teams to play
            > > > conservatively late in close games when they admit the game
            > should
            > > be
            > > > opened up.
            > > >
            > > > I suppose two major pieces of news out of Germany is that next
            > year
            > > > they will demote teams once again (the DEL only had teams
            > promoted
            > > > *to* it for several years, expanding the league) and that they
            > will
            > > > enforce a 52-game schedule by creating a mildly unbalanced
            > schedule
            > > > next season (with 15 teams, it's 56 games this season).
            > > >
            > > > --
            > > > Michael Poplawski
            > > > Victoria, BC Canada
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand.
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
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