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Flyers trading Doug Favell

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  • Craig
    Can anyone shed some light on the Flyers reasons for trading Doug Favell for Bernie Parent in the summer of 1973? I am curious as in 1973 Parent obviously had
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 5, 2007
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      Can anyone shed some light on the Flyers reasons for trading Doug Favell for Bernie Parent in the summer of 1973?

      I am curious as in 1973 Parent obviously had yet to reach the success that he did in the following 2 seasons. I think it is safe to say that he was a good goalie - perhaps a very good young goalie but also one who two teams (Boston and Philadelphia) had seen fit to get rid of. His stats are solid - very admirable in fact but don't make you think of a truly great goalie. He had yet to win a playoff round. His 1972-73 season in the WHA with admittedly a very mediocre team certainly didn't look anything more than average. So in my mind at least here is a good goalie - maybe in the same vein as a Dan Bouchard, Gilles Gilbert, etc but nowhere near the level of Tony Esposito, Ken Dryden, Gerry Cheevers, etc.

      Then we come to Doug Favell. Here is a guy with admittedly a reputation for being somewhat "streaky" or inconsistent. But in 4 of his 6 years with the Flyers he had a GAA below 3. He had excellent years in 1971-72 and 1972-73 along with a brilliant playoff performance in the 1973 playoffs. The Flyers won their first playoff series that year with Favell playing superbly. Looking at him I see Favell at the same level as Parent. So unless I am missing something why make the trade? Did Fred Sheo not like Favell?

      Craig







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    • craig_1965ca
      Lloyd, The only thing I d take exception to in your note is your comment about Andre Lacroix. He was a superb defensive forward. In the last 10 months I have
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 7, 2007
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        Lloyd,

        The only thing I'd take exception to in your note is your comment
        about Andre Lacroix. He was a superb defensive forward. In the last
        10 months I have watched and rewatched the 1974 Summit for my book on
        that series and his defensive play ranks up there with the best
        defensive play of any Canadian forward in international play. Before
        the series Billy Harris raved about Lacroix's defensive abilties and
        his face-off skills. In the series Lacroix really came through. Even
        in the final 4 games in Moscow when his offensive numbers collapsed
        he stayed in the lineup and desearvedly so due to his outstanding
        defensive play and face-off skills. I estimate he won over 95% of the
        draws he took against Soviet forwards.

        Even in the NHL, before he jumped to the WHA, while he was considered
        too small and too slow to be an elite offensive player his defensive
        play and again his face-off abilities were very well respected.

        So while the Blazers defense was clearly very weak Lacroix was not a
        factor in their less than stellar play.

        Craig


        --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, Lloyd Davis <ldaviseditor@...> wrote:
        >
        > Also consider the defence Parent was playing behind. Richard
        Campeau,
        > Jim Cardiff, Ron Plumb and Irv Spencer. Not quite Barry Ashbee, Ed
        > Van Impe, Joe Watson, Tom Bladon and Wayne Hillman -- not to
        mention,
        > Shero's coaching versus that of Phil Watson. And if Sanderson, a
        > solid two-way player, hadn't been a washout, maybe Parent's goals-
        > against average would have looked a little better. (I doubt anyone
        > was expecting Andre Lacroix or Ray Lawson to backcheck.)
        >
        > I note that Favell's Toronto numbers (as well as those of Dunc
        > Wilson) went in the crapper in '74-75. The team gave up a goal a
        game
        > more than the year before. In '73-74, Toronto allowed 10 fewer
        goals
        > than the Canadiens, and their numbers were comparable to Boston
        and
        > L.A. (Vachon). In '74-75, they were neck and neck with the
        California
        > Golden Seals.
        >
        > Did the goalies suddenly and collectively lose their ability? More
        > like the team in front of them was in flux. Henderson and Pelyk
        went
        > to the WHA, following the 1972 defectors (Harrison, Trottier, Ley,
        > Selwood). Turnbull didn't play much, and Salming was out for about
        20
        > games. Ullman got another year older. Sittler was Sittler, but
        > McKenny was, well, McKenny. Maybe he decided to be the next Howie
        > Young rather than the next Bobby Orr that year.
        >
        > But if you want to focus on GAA, Favell's postseason numbers prior
        to
        > '72-73, along with Greenberg's description of the Montreal series,
        > suggest he wasn't a money goalie. Even if he did drive a Bricklin.
        >
        >
        > On 5-Sep-07, at 11:24 PM, Glen and Peggy Wright wrote:
        >
        > > His
        > > 1972-73 season in the WHA with admittedly a very mediocre team
        > > certainly didn't look anything more than average. So in my mind
        at
        > > least here is a good goalie - maybe in the same vein as a Dan
        > > Bouchard, Gilles Gilbert, etc but nowhere near the level of Tony
        > > Esposito, Ken Dryden, Gerry Cheevers, etc.
        >
        > --
        > Lloyd Davis
        > Butterfield 8 Inc.
        > 19 Tennis Crescent, #6
        > Toronto, ON M4K 1J4
        > 416 462 0230
        > ldaviseditor@...
        > --
        >
      • William Underwood
        Absolutely.but think about what he gave them.an exorbitant rent and the worst dates! Harold would never turn down a buck and he ALSO got the chance to take a
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 8, 2007
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          Absolutely.but think about what he gave them.an exorbitant rent and the
          worst dates! Harold would never turn down a buck and he ALSO got the chance
          to take a shot at the WHA by offering them poor conditions. Remember the
          Toros drew well but they simply could not afford to stay in Toronto.two
          points for Harold!



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        • goaliedave
          Lacroix is one of those guys who I liked and would have loved to have seen play for the habs. I think he would have put up Gretzky-like numbers if he was put
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 8, 2007
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            Lacroix is one of those guys who I liked and would have loved to have seen play for the habs. I think he would have put up Gretzky-like numbers if he was put in a Cournoyer type role. I know that's saying something but from what I've read about him I feel he would have been a perfect fit in Montreal.

            Dave in Whitby
            It's hockey season! Sens vs. Leafs today in Kitchener (even if it only is rookie vs rookie)

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Craig
            Dave, I think Lacroix may have struggled in that role as he really wasn t that fast and wasn t a true sniper. His skill was playmaking along with as I
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 8, 2007
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              Dave,

              I think Lacroix may have struggled in that role as he really wasn't that fast and wasn't a true "sniper." His skill was playmaking along with as I mentioned before simply outstanding defensive and face-off skills.

              Both Rick Smith and Brad Selwood who I interviewed for my book on the 1974 Summit told me that "Andy" (as he was called) saw the ice better than anyone they had ever played against or with. They raved about his playmaking abilities and the before mentioned skills. Now, if he had played with good wingers in the NHL I do agree with you that he would have put up some great numbers. It's funny how he didn't work out in Chicago and yet proved to be a very good center for Bobby Hull on Team Canada 74.

              Craig




              ----- Original Message -----
              From: goaliedave
              To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 12:41 PM
              Subject: [hockhist] Re: Flyers trading Doug Favell


              Lacroix is one of those guys who I liked and would have loved to have seen play for the habs. I think he would have put up Gretzky-like numbers if he was put in a Cournoyer type role. I know that's saying something but from what I've read about him I feel he would have been a perfect fit in Montreal.

              Dave in Whitby
              It's hockey season! Sens vs. Leafs today in Kitchener (even if it only is rookie vs rookie)

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • craig_1965ca
              Dave, I think Lacroix may have struggled in that role as he really wasn t that fast and wasn t a true sniper. His skill was playmaking along with as I
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 8, 2007
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                Dave,

                I think Lacroix may have struggled in that role as he really wasn't
                that fast and wasn't a true "sniper." His skill was playmaking along
                with as I mentioned before simply outstanding defensive and face-off
                skills.

                Both Rick Smith and Brad Selwood who I interviewed for my book on the
                1974 Summit told me that "Andy" (as he was called) saw the ice better
                than anyone they had ever played against or with. They raved about
                his playmaking abilities and the before mentioned skills. Now, if he
                had played with good wingers in the NHL I do agree with you that he
                would have put up some great numbers. It's funny how he didn't work
                out in Chicago and yet proved to be a very good center for Bobby Hull
                on Team Canada 74. Very odd....

                Craig




                --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "goaliedave" <goaliedave@...> wrote:
                >
                > Lacroix is one of those guys who I liked and would have loved to
                have seen play for the habs. I think he would have put up Gretzky-
                like numbers if he was put in a Cournoyer type role. I know that's
                saying something but from what I've read about him I feel he would
                have been a perfect fit in Montreal.
                >
                > Dave in Whitby
                > It's hockey season! Sens vs. Leafs today in Kitchener (even if it
                only is rookie vs rookie)
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Jim Dornberger
                Are you saying there is something wrong with Jean-Guy Gendron and Simon Nolet (sometimes Dick Sarrazin)? Jim Dornberger ... wasn t that fast and
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 12, 2007
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                  Are you saying there is something wrong with Jean-Guy Gendron and
                  Simon Nolet (sometimes Dick Sarrazin)? <just kidding>

                  Jim Dornberger


                  --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Craig" <bflynn3@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dave,
                  >
                  > I think Lacroix may have struggled in that role as he really
                  wasn't that fast and wasn't a true "sniper." His skill was
                  playmaking along with as I mentioned before simply outstanding
                  defensive and face-off skills.
                  >
                  > Both Rick Smith and Brad Selwood who I interviewed for my book on
                  the 1974 Summit told me that "Andy" (as he was called) saw the ice
                  better than anyone they had ever played against or with. They raved
                  about his playmaking abilities and the before mentioned skills. Now,
                  if he had played with good wingers in the NHL I do agree with you
                  that he would have put up some great numbers. It's funny how he
                  didn't work out in Chicago and yet proved to be a very good center
                  for Bobby Hull on Team Canada 74.
                  >
                  > Craig
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