Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Vintage North Stars-Scouts

Expand Messages
  • Craig
    If anyone wants to check it out there is some vintage North Star/Scout action from 1975-76 posted here. Truly terrible teams! Lots of empty seats as well.....
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 31, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      If anyone wants to check it out there is some vintage North Star/Scout action from 1975-76 posted here. Truly terrible teams! Lots of empty seats as well.....

      Craig



      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSvJ1CUNbLA



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Douglas Holste
      Pretty Cool and yes two very bad teams. Did you see that same person post about 10 minutes of 1976 Cleveland Baron vs. Mtl Canadians footage. Now that is rare
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 4, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Pretty Cool and yes two very bad teams.

        Did you see that same person post about 10 minutes of 1976 Cleveland
        Baron vs. Mtl Canadians footage. Now that is rare stuff.

        Doug

        --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Craig" <bflynn3@...> wrote:
        >
        > If anyone wants to check it out there is some vintage North
        Star/Scout action from 1975-76 posted here. Truly terrible teams!
        Lots of empty seats as well.....
        >
        > Craig
        >
        >
        >
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSvJ1CUNbLA
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Craig
        Doug, I did watch that as well. It s funny I always though Cleveland should have worked as a major league level hockey town. The AHL Barons and WHA Crusaders
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 4, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Doug,

          I did watch that as well.

          It's funny I always though Cleveland should have worked as a major league level hockey town. The AHL Barons and WHA Crusaders did well when they played downtown but it seemed like "the wheels came off" when the Crusaders moved out to the massive Richfield Coliseum. Their crowds dropped then and they still had a solid team. The NHL Barons while not being as bad as many teams where not great and I have often thought people simply were not prepared to make the drive to see either a middle of the road team (Crusaders) or a bad team (Barons.) Perhaps it would have been different if the Coliseum was built where the new modern rink is, right by Jacobs Field downtown.

          Craig





          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Douglas Holste
          To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:21 PM
          Subject: [hockhist] Re: Vintage North Stars-Scouts


          Pretty Cool and yes two very bad teams.

          Did you see that same person post about 10 minutes of 1976 Cleveland
          Baron vs. Mtl Canadians footage. Now that is rare stuff.

          Doug

          --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Craig" <bflynn3@...> wrote:
          >
          > If anyone wants to check it out there is some vintage North
          Star/Scout action from 1975-76 posted here. Truly terrible teams!
          Lots of empty seats as well.....
          >
          > Craig
          >
          >
          >
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSvJ1CUNbLA
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Douglas Holste
          Craig, Yes I think it is one of great faux paus of modern stadium building is the Richfield Coliseum. As early as the first year of the Crusader s time in
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 5, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Craig,

            Yes I think it is one of great faux paus of modern stadium building
            is the Richfield Coliseum. As early as the first year of the
            Crusader's time in Richfield people where referring it was a mistake
            building so far away from the fan base, Cleveland. It was kind of a
            compromise, the thinking being Arkon and Canton natives would come
            out to games, but I don't think that ever materialized.

            The Crusader's two seasons at Richfield were plagued by
            underachievement. The team was good in terms of prior NHL experience
            (Al McDoughan should have been a WHA superstar) and they had some
            excellent prospects from the juniors but they just didn't jell to
            into the team it should have been. Maybe it was
            Age/Injuries/defections or all of the above.

            Too bad the Barons/Seals were finally making some headway from the
            Seal/Findley years, but it wasn't enough. I think a winning team or
            at least a playoff berth would have gone a long way to help the
            franchise. But they were in a tough division at that time with
            Boston, Buffalo, and Toronto. Look at how successful the NBA
            Cleveland Calvaliers were at the same time, they playoff runs that
            filled the Coliseum.

            Around 1993 I drove by the general vacinity of the Coliseum (only saw
            the entrance to the parking lot) but I was amazed at how even after
            20 years there was not a lot civilization near it. Still alot of
            corn fields at that time.

            Doug

            --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Craig" <bflynn3@...> wrote:
            >
            > Doug,
            >
            > I did watch that as well.
            >
            > It's funny I always though Cleveland should have worked as a major
            league level hockey town. The AHL Barons and WHA Crusaders did well
            when they played downtown but it seemed like "the wheels came off"
            when the Crusaders moved out to the massive Richfield Coliseum. Their
            crowds dropped then and they still had a solid team. The NHL Barons
            while not being as bad as many teams where not great and I have often
            thought people simply were not prepared to make the drive to see
            either a middle of the road team (Crusaders) or a bad team (Barons.)
            Perhaps it would have been different if the Coliseum was built where
            the new modern rink is, right by Jacobs Field downtown.
            >
            > Craig
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Douglas Holste
            > To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:21 PM
            > Subject: [hockhist] Re: Vintage North Stars-Scouts
            >
            >
            > Pretty Cool and yes two very bad teams.
            >
            > Did you see that same person post about 10 minutes of 1976
            Cleveland
            > Baron vs. Mtl Canadians footage. Now that is rare stuff.
            >
            > Doug
            >
            > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Craig" <bflynn3@> wrote:
            > >
            > > If anyone wants to check it out there is some vintage North
            > Star/Scout action from 1975-76 posted here. Truly terrible teams!
            > Lots of empty seats as well.....
            > >
            > > Craig
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSvJ1CUNbLA
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Lloyd Davis
            A recurring theme is that the Coliseum s location made it unattractive to hockey fans. But there are other factors to consider. First of all, Cleveland was a
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 5, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              A recurring theme is that the Coliseum's location made it
              unattractive to hockey fans. But there are other factors to consider.

              First of all, Cleveland was a bad place for a sports team of any
              description in the 1970s. Browns attendance declined every year from
              1970 through 1975. Nobody went to Indians games with any consistency
              from about 1956 until the last season at Municipal Stadium.

              The rationale behind the Coliseum's site was that five or six million
              people lived within an hour's drive of the site. Nick Mileti also
              believed that development would follow the Cuyahoga Valley, putting
              his building at the forefront of a real-estate boom. (This kind of
              thinking recurs -- two decades later, it convinced the Ottawa
              Senators to place their rink west of the city, in Kanata, rather than
              to the east, where most of the fans were. Sprawl -- er, development
              -- has caught up with the Senators, though not soon enough to benefit
              Bruce Firestone. And, of course, it isn't any easier to get to a Sens
              game if you live in Orleans.)

              When the Coliseum was demolished, it was still "in the middle of
              nowhere." Which isn't proof that Mileti was wrong. On the contrary,
              government protected the Cuyahoga Valley by establishing a national
              park, in order to prevent the region from being paved over as so much
              Ohio farmland was. Indeed, the Gunds ultimately sold the Coliseum
              site to a trust that turned it over to the National Park Service.

              I suggest that, at the time, it would have been even more foolish to
              build in downtown Cleveland than in Richfield. After World War II,
              like so many other North American cities, Cleveland began
              hemorrhaging people to the suburbs. If you traced a 50-mile radius
              from the site of Municipal Stadium, the first thing you'd notice is
              that half of the circle would be under water. The next thing you'd
              notice is that the vast majority of your fans would be out at the
              southern edges of the circle. While Richfield was 25 miles from
              downtown Cleveland, most of the people expected to watch either the
              Cavaliers or the Crusaders or Barons would have been living at least
              25 miles from downtown.

              "Downtown revitalization" is an idea whose time hadn't yet come --
              and wouldn't come for another dozen years or so.

              The fate of the Cavaliers makes an interesting counterpoint to the
              suggestion that major league hockey didn't go in Cleveland because of
              where the arena was.

              Like the Crusaders, the Cavs moved to Richfield in 1974-75. In their
              last year at the Arena, the Cavs drew about 4000 a game. That double
              to 8000 in the first season at Richfield, and grew by an equal amount
              in year two. In the third season, 1976-77, when the Barons arrived
              from Oakland, the Cavaliers set a team attendance record of 13,913
              that stood until 1988-89.

              To give those numbers some context, the NBA average was a shade under
              11,000 that year, and the Knicks, Sixers and Denver Nuggets were the
              only three teams that did better. Detroit, Buffalo and the New York
              Nets were all below 8000. The defending champions, the Boston
              Celtics, averaged 12,600.

              Now, it certainly helped the Cavs that they won their division in
              1975-76 and took the Celtics to six games in the Eastern final.

              In each of the '76-77 and '77-78 seasons, Cleveland went 43-39, after
              which the Cadavers racked up nine straight losing seasons. Not
              surprisingly, attendance dropped off precipitously, to below 8000 in
              1978-79, and about 5500 in '81-82, when the team went 15-67. In
              1982-83, they drew 3916 per game.

              Things were bad enough that Ted Stepien started threatening to move
              the team to Toronto. I'm not sure which city that threat was directed
              at! We ended up getting Stepien, but not the Cavs. He brought the
              Continental Association (Triple-A to the NBA) to Varsity Arena. Sold
              TV rights to a local UHF station -- I recall a road game against the
              Puerto Rico Coquis played in an outdoor arena.

              In 1988-89, the Cavaliers had an excellent 57-25 season, and drew
              17,800 per game, breaking the team record. Suddenly, it wasn't such a
              long drive to Richfield again!

              In the '90s, the team moved to the Gund Arena downtown, and initially
              they played before full houses. But the team began slipping after the
              millennium. The team that drafted LeBron had failed to win 20 games,
              if memory serves, and attendance was back down around 12k per game.
              Again, to borrow from the language of architecture, the site of the
              arena didn't change, but the _situation_ did.

              I'd say the wheels fell off the Crusaders bandwagon when Cheevers
              went back to Boston. At that point, the team lacked a star
              attraction, as well as a deep-pocketed owner. (How long could Mileti
              keep losing money on hockey _and_ baseball, and how much had he lost
              on the Cavs to date?)

              It would appear that fan interest was correlated to performance in
              the case of the Cavs. But as noted, it didn't matter where the arena
              was located.

              On 4-Sep-07, at 4:47 PM, Craig wrote:

              > The AHL Barons and WHA Crusaders did well when they played downtown
              > but it seemed like "the wheels came off" when the Crusaders moved
              > out to the massive Richfield Coliseum. Their crowds dropped then
              > and they still had a solid team. The NHL Barons while not being as
              > bad as many teams where not great and I have often thought people
              > simply were not prepared to make the drive to see either a middle
              > of the road team (Crusaders) or a bad team (Barons.) Perhaps it
              > would have been different if the Coliseum was built where the new
              > modern rink is, right by Jacobs Field downtown.

              --
              Lloyd Davis
              Butterfield 8 Inc.
              19 Tennis Crescent, #6
              Toronto, ON M4K 1J4
              416 462 0230
              ldaviseditor@...
              --
            • Craig
              Very informative note Lloyd, Thank you! Can you shed any light on the background of why Cheevers went back to Boston? Did Cleveland release him to save money?
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 5, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Very informative note Lloyd,

                Thank you!

                Can you shed any light on the background of why Cheevers went back to Boston? Did Cleveland release him to save money? Or did Cheevers feel his contract had been breached? Was it something else?

                Craig



                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Lloyd Davis
                To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 1:17 PM
                Subject: Re: [hockhist] Re: Vintage North Stars-Scouts


                A recurring theme is that the Coliseum's location made it
                unattractive to hockey fans. But there are other factors to consider.

                First of all, Cleveland was a bad place for a sports team of any
                description in the 1970s. Browns attendance declined every year from
                1970 through 1975. Nobody went to Indians games with any consistency
                from about 1956 until the last season at Municipal Stadium.

                The rationale behind the Coliseum's site was that five or six million
                people lived within an hour's drive of the site. Nick Mileti also
                believed that development would follow the Cuyahoga Valley, putting
                his building at the forefront of a real-estate boom. (This kind of
                thinking recurs -- two decades later, it convinced the Ottawa
                Senators to place their rink west of the city, in Kanata, rather than
                to the east, where most of the fans were. Sprawl -- er, development
                -- has caught up with the Senators, though not soon enough to benefit
                Bruce Firestone. And, of course, it isn't any easier to get to a Sens
                game if you live in Orleans.)

                When the Coliseum was demolished, it was still "in the middle of
                nowhere." Which isn't proof that Mileti was wrong. On the contrary,
                government protected the Cuyahoga Valley by establishing a national
                park, in order to prevent the region from being paved over as so much
                Ohio farmland was. Indeed, the Gunds ultimately sold the Coliseum
                site to a trust that turned it over to the National Park Service.

                I suggest that, at the time, it would have been even more foolish to
                build in downtown Cleveland than in Richfield. After World War II,
                like so many other North American cities, Cleveland began
                hemorrhaging people to the suburbs. If you traced a 50-mile radius
                from the site of Municipal Stadium, the first thing you'd notice is
                that half of the circle would be under water. The next thing you'd
                notice is that the vast majority of your fans would be out at the
                southern edges of the circle. While Richfield was 25 miles from
                downtown Cleveland, most of the people expected to watch either the
                Cavaliers or the Crusaders or Barons would have been living at least
                25 miles from downtown.

                "Downtown revitalization" is an idea whose time hadn't yet come --
                and wouldn't come for another dozen years or so.

                The fate of the Cavaliers makes an interesting counterpoint to the
                suggestion that major league hockey didn't go in Cleveland because of
                where the arena was.

                Like the Crusaders, the Cavs moved to Richfield in 1974-75. In their
                last year at the Arena, the Cavs drew about 4000 a game. That double
                to 8000 in the first season at Richfield, and grew by an equal amount
                in year two. In the third season, 1976-77, when the Barons arrived
                from Oakland, the Cavaliers set a team attendance record of 13,913
                that stood until 1988-89.

                To give those numbers some context, the NBA average was a shade under
                11,000 that year, and the Knicks, Sixers and Denver Nuggets were the
                only three teams that did better. Detroit, Buffalo and the New York
                Nets were all below 8000. The defending champions, the Boston
                Celtics, averaged 12,600.

                Now, it certainly helped the Cavs that they won their division in
                1975-76 and took the Celtics to six games in the Eastern final.

                In each of the '76-77 and '77-78 seasons, Cleveland went 43-39, after
                which the Cadavers racked up nine straight losing seasons. Not
                surprisingly, attendance dropped off precipitously, to below 8000 in
                1978-79, and about 5500 in '81-82, when the team went 15-67. In
                1982-83, they drew 3916 per game.

                Things were bad enough that Ted Stepien started threatening to move
                the team to Toronto. I'm not sure which city that threat was directed
                at! We ended up getting Stepien, but not the Cavs. He brought the
                Continental Association (Triple-A to the NBA) to Varsity Arena. Sold
                TV rights to a local UHF station -- I recall a road game against the
                Puerto Rico Coquis played in an outdoor arena.

                In 1988-89, the Cavaliers had an excellent 57-25 season, and drew
                17,800 per game, breaking the team record. Suddenly, it wasn't such a
                long drive to Richfield again!

                In the '90s, the team moved to the Gund Arena downtown, and initially
                they played before full houses. But the team began slipping after the
                millennium. The team that drafted LeBron had failed to win 20 games,
                if memory serves, and attendance was back down around 12k per game.
                Again, to borrow from the language of architecture, the site of the
                arena didn't change, but the _situation_ did.

                I'd say the wheels fell off the Crusaders bandwagon when Cheevers
                went back to Boston. At that point, the team lacked a star
                attraction, as well as a deep-pocketed owner. (How long could Mileti
                keep losing money on hockey _and_ baseball, and how much had he lost
                on the Cavs to date?)

                It would appear that fan interest was correlated to performance in
                the case of the Cavs. But as noted, it didn't matter where the arena
                was located.

                On 4-Sep-07, at 4:47 PM, Craig wrote:

                > The AHL Barons and WHA Crusaders did well when they played downtown
                > but it seemed like "the wheels came off" when the Crusaders moved
                > out to the massive Richfield Coliseum. Their crowds dropped then
                > and they still had a solid team. The NHL Barons while not being as
                > bad as many teams where not great and I have often thought people
                > simply were not prepared to make the drive to see either a middle
                > of the road team (Crusaders) or a bad team (Barons.) Perhaps it
                > would have been different if the Coliseum was built where the new
                > modern rink is, right by Jacobs Field downtown.

                --
                Lloyd Davis
                Butterfield 8 Inc.
                19 Tennis Crescent, #6
                Toronto, ON M4K 1J4
                416 462 0230
                ldaviseditor@...
                --





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • epenaltybox
                ... Not entirely correct. Detroit (a 3-hour drive) started its downtown revitalization planning in 1972, and the RenCen was built in 1977. That same year,
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 5, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, Lloyd Davis <ldaviseditor@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > "Downtown revitalization" is an idea whose time hadn't yet come --
                  > and wouldn't come for another dozen years or so.

                  Not entirely correct. Detroit (a 3-hour drive) started its downtown
                  revitalization planning in 1972, and the RenCen was built in 1977.
                  That same year, Tiger Stadium got a facelift (and Detroiters got an
                  introduction to ticket tax), and plans were being made to build Joe
                  Louis Arena.

                  >
                  > The fate of the Cavaliers makes an interesting counterpoint to the
                  > suggestion that major league hockey didn't go in Cleveland because
                  of
                  > where the arena was.
                  >
                  > Like the Crusaders, the Cavs moved to Richfield in 1974-75. In
                  their
                  > last year at the Arena, the Cavs drew about 4000 a game. That
                  double
                  > to 8000 in the first season at Richfield, and grew by an equal
                  amount
                  > in year two. In the third season, 1976-77, when the Barons arrived
                  > from Oakland, the Cavaliers set a team attendance record of 13,913
                  > that stood until 1988-89.
                  >
                  Interestingly, as bad as the Barons numbers were, they drew about 13K
                  for the Canadiens in a November game. Then the team stunk, and the
                  fans weren't going to drive to watch those losers.

                  Also, the winters of 77 and 78 were particularly brutal (part of the
                  reason I live in California now), and who wants to drive 25 miles in
                  a blizzard to watch a lousy hockey game. IIRC, the Black Hawks had a
                  game that drew something like 1400 that same winter, and they were
                  decent...

                  Morey
                • William Underwood
                  Cleveland had been sold by Mileti and the new owner openly courted the NHL. Of course the team had moved to Richfield which I can add my two bits about.it IS
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 9, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Cleveland had been sold by Mileti and the new owner openly courted the NHL.
                    Of course the team had moved to Richfield which I can add my two bits
                    about.it IS in the middle of no where, I remember it was a topic when we
                    were trying to do the old NAHL/MLHA in the early 90's and had some ex WHA
                    types and NHL guys who were there when Cleveland was in the league. To the
                    man they thought that things would be better with the new arena in the city
                    itself. We had Chuck Catto there who was the man that built the orginal
                    Crusader line up, John Ferguson who some people may remember was an ex Baron
                    before a Hab, Bob Whidden who had played for the Crusaders and Roy Boe who
                    had owned the Isles back then. So we had three guys with a lot of Cleveland
                    experience.I also remember talking to folks about it when we held our draft
                    in Cleveland and locals said it was a nasty drive all the way out there on
                    bad weather winter nights.



                    Now you take all of that and add on that the team was starting to miss
                    payrolls and attendance was AWFUL.death or at least the NHL was in the air.
                    Now two sources say similar things.one says that Cheevers "opted out": of
                    his contract and the other says he asked for and got a release. So he was
                    not sold nor did he have to go to court.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • epenaltybox
                    Cheevers, on the radio a few months ago, said he asked for his release after being injured. The game Sittler got 10 points, Cheevers was signed and supposed
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 9, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Cheevers, on the radio a few months ago, said he asked for his release
                      after being injured. The game Sittler got 10 points, Cheevers was
                      signed and supposed to play, but he physically couldn't so he sat on
                      the bench as a backup.

                      One other Cheevers story, off-topic: When the Bruins had too many men
                      on the ice in the playoffs against Montreal, Cheevers was the back-up.
                      The pace was so hectic, that one of the LWers (I think he said it was
                      Jonathan) came over to the bench and called LW, and all three other
                      left wingers jumped on the ice. Ray Scaponello was the linesman, and
                      he came over to the bench and said, "You know I could have let you get
                      away with one guy jumping on and off, but nine men?!"

                      Morey

                      --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "William Underwood" <wausport@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Now you take all of that and add on that the team was starting to miss
                      > payrolls and attendance was AWFUL.death or at least the NHL was in
                      the air.
                      > Now two sources say similar things.one says that Cheevers "opted
                      out": of
                      > his contract and the other says he asked for and got a release. So he
                      was
                      > not sold nor did he have to go to court.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • William Underwood
                      Did he say why Morey? Another story about that Sittler night.Dave Reese was the goalie and he alter coached prep in New England. An old scouting buddy of
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 10, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Did he say why Morey?



                        Another story about that Sittler night.Dave Reese was the goalie and he
                        alter coached prep in New England. An old scouting buddy of mine.sort of
                        hockey's answer to Morey Amsterdam "the human joke machine" (he as a RIOT
                        and made even a lousy game with no real prospects in a frigid rink fun) used
                        to send Reese a "Happy Anniversary" card every year to commemorate the
                        event!



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • epenaltybox
                        ... He gave a list that sort of made sense. I don t remember exactly, but it didn t stick out as unusual. IIRC, he said his contract was expiring, he was
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 10, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "William Underwood" <wausport@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Did he say why Morey?
                          >
                          He gave a list that sort of made sense. I don't remember exactly, but
                          it didn't stick out as unusual.

                          IIRC, he said his contract was expiring, he was going to jump back to
                          the NHL anyway, he was injured and the Crusaders were financially
                          hurting. He really didn't say anything negative about the ownership,
                          the team, the city or the league. The split seemed amicable.

                          Morey
                        • craig_1965ca
                          I remember very clearly an interview with Cheevers when he returned to the NHL and was interviewed on Hockey Night in Canada. He had nothing negative to say
                          Message 12 of 12 , Sep 11, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I remember very clearly an interview with Cheevers when he returned to
                            the NHL and was interviewed on Hockey Night in Canada. He had nothing
                            negative to say about the WHA or Cleveland and insisted they had
                            treated him well.

                            Craig






                            --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "epenaltybox" <epenaltybox@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "William Underwood" <wausport@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Did he say why Morey?
                            > >
                            > He gave a list that sort of made sense. I don't remember exactly,
                            but
                            > it didn't stick out as unusual.
                            >
                            > IIRC, he said his contract was expiring, he was going to jump back to
                            > the NHL anyway, he was injured and the Crusaders were financially
                            > hurting. He really didn't say anything negative about the ownership,
                            > the team, the city or the league. The split seemed amicable.
                            >
                            > Morey
                            >
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.