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Re:Ken Hodge Question

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  • William Underwood
    I believe that Hodge was a Canadian citizen thus eligible.remember Stan Mikita was born in Czechoslovakia and played in the US but raised Canadian and was on
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 26, 2007
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      I believe that Hodge was a Canadian citizen thus eligible.remember Stan
      Mikita was born in Czechoslovakia and played in the US but raised Canadian
      and was on Team Canada. To my knowledge he could have played. Sinden doesn't
      mention having wanted him in his book and I'll have to look in Drydens I may
      real that he alluded to it but may be wrong. But since Ken was upset about
      it, we see a hint that he was eligible.



      As to why he may not have been selected if eligible.remember in 71-2 he had
      a LOUSY YEAR.16 goals in 60 games! And he was an up and down player.career
      goal totals..6-10-25-45-25-43-16 up to 1972 and then 37-50-23-25-21-2. Odds
      are that may have had a bit to do with it!



      In his book I don't recall Sinden discussing him but he did discuss how they
      chose Team Canada. They selected what they thought were the best 50 NHL
      skaters.the top 10 at each position then made a cut and adjusted down to 35.
      They looked for role guys as well as natural scorers, they wanted grinders
      like Cashman, Parise, Goldsworthy (Sinden felt he was a grinder for this
      level) et al. Sinden says that he was criticized for taking them but as he
      says "hockey games are won by diggers".



      Now remember at the start of the series they messed around with Espo putting
      him between Cournoyer and Mahvolich.two guys that could fly and had
      scratched Cashman and Parise. Essentially they went with the best guns but
      found out that the Russians were just too fast and were never suckered in so
      they wanted more grinders in the line up as of game two. Cashman (naturally)
      and Parise clicked well with Espo.remember not only did Sinden know Cashman
      but he also knew Parise who was in the Bruin system prior to expansion. But
      their first instinct seemed more of an all star less chemistry concept and
      like they wanted to skate with the Russians.Opening Night.The GAG line from
      New York.Hadfield-Ratelle-Gilbert, the aforementioned Espo between the two
      Habs. Pete Mahovlich-Berenson-Redmond and Henderson-Clarke -Ellis rounded
      things out. The game plan was in Sinden's words:



      "1) To put as much offensive pressure on the Russians as we could." (My
      note: remember they had a scouting report that Tretiak was weak.a CLASSIC
      example why you watch a goalie more than once...they saw him the night
      before his wedding)

      "2) to play the exact same style as we did in the NHL."

      "3) to shoot as often as we can form any angle as their goaltending was
      questionable." (see above)

      "4) to be aggressive but only when we were in a position to hit."

      "5) not do any fighting."



      They felt that "if we could break quick and get a couple of early goals they
      might panic." Thus they had also decided "to throw an offensive team on the
      ice against the Russians and carry the play to them. " They had two
      standards for selection for opening night; who had the best camp and if
      there was a tie they took the better offensive player.

      Taken in this context I think we have some insight into their thoughts. You
      can imply that they looked at it like "we can outplay these guys so we put a
      ton of skilled firepower out there but we will have grinders to back up in
      case.."



      So when you look at things in context.Hodge was coming off of a 16 goal year
      and take a look at the other right wings on that team in game one (which
      reflected the strategy they felt would win the series and their philosophy)
      they were far more consistent scorers. And as far as grinders go.he was
      never the pure scrapper guy like a Cashman (who was all elbows) or Parise
      (Jeep was a great PK)and Sinden saw Goldsworthy as the other classic grinder
      and he was a better natural scorer (only 1 year under 30 goals in a 6 year
      stretch never under 27, Hodge in the same six was blow 30 three times and
      each of those years were worse than Goldsworthy's worst) ) than Hodge.
      Folks should remember that Sinden KNEW Goldy and Parise as well as Hodge,
      perhaps in some ways even better. They were ex Bruin properties prior to
      expansion and played for Sinden in Oke City (as player and player coach he
      had actually played WITH Jeep for 4 years and Goldsworthy part of one.he
      never played with Hodge) and Boston. So it is obvious that Harry saw
      something that he felt that he had needed in those guys but not Hodge. Maybe
      it was the fire that Cashman and Parise brought.they came every night ready
      to go to war! And Goldsworhty was just a flat out consistent scorer.only
      Harry can answer that! And Hodge did miss 18 games due to injury the
      previous year.could it have played a role? Food for thought.



      Selecting any Team Canada is tough at any level and good players get passed
      over. Hell I remember a buddy of mine in the NHL telling Ron Francis to get
      US citizenship because he would never make Team Canada. Sure enough he never
      made the cut on the big teams (Olympic/World/Canada Cup) and only played in
      the Worlds once. You need not only to be an elite player but must be playing
      well the year of the selection and fit team chemistry/needs. Hodge, Dionne,
      Perrealt and Martin, et al were just the first early guys to find that out!





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Craig
      Bill, Great note! I appreciate it. The one comment I ll make is we need to find out if Ken Hodge had taken out Canadian citizenship. (Mikita was a Canadian
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 26, 2007
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        Bill,

        Great note! I appreciate it.

        The one comment I'll make is we need to find out if Ken Hodge had taken out Canadian citizenship. (Mikita was a Canadian citizen so there was no problem with him playing.) If he wasn't then Canada really could not have named him even if they wished to.

        I agree Hodge had a terrible 1971-72 year. But you didn't mention he had a great playoff. 9 goals and 8 assists in 15 games. I am not saying he was a difference maker or that Canada should have selected him. But considering that even though he was a very inconsistent player (I agree 100% with what you say there and certainly no arguments at all about Parise, Goldworthy, etc being better diggers) I am kind of surprised he wasn't named, if in fact he was eligible simply because it would have meant going into the series with another intact highly successful NHL line. The one advantage we all knew the Soviets would have was their team work. They played and practiced together on a regular basis. If Hodge could have played that would have meant coming into the series with perhaps the two top NHL lines (the Bruin and GAG lines) intact and that would have been a plus for Canada. (Just as an aside here I have watched and rewatched Game 1. Despite what Sinden said in his book the GAG line didn't stink the joint out. Yes they were on the ice for the first 3 Soviet goals but Rod Gilbert showed great wheels almost catching Petrov and stopping the Soviets second goal and Gilbert in particular created a couple of very good offensive chances in the game. They were no worse in my mind than any other Canadian player that night. And considering Sinden did go back to Seiling and Awrey in Game 4 after their ghastly performance in Game 1 and kept using the hopelessly inept Frank Mahovlich game after game I have to believe that Sinden simply had in in for the GAG line. I think we saw some Bruin bias here. They didn't have a great 1st game and based on that Sinden gave up on them and would not use them again.)

        Craig




        ----- Original Message -----
        From: William Underwood
        To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:32 AM
        Subject: [hockhist] Re:Ken Hodge Question


        I believe that Hodge was a Canadian citizen thus eligible.remember Stan
        Mikita was born in Czechoslovakia and played in the US but raised Canadian
        and was on Team Canada. To my knowledge he could have played. Sinden doesn't
        mention having wanted him in his book and I'll have to look in Drydens I may
        real that he alluded to it but may be wrong. But since Ken was upset about
        it, we see a hint that he was eligible.

        As to why he may not have been selected if eligible.remember in 71-2 he had
        a LOUSY YEAR.16 goals in 60 games! And he was an up and down player.career
        goal totals..6-10-25-45-25-43-16 up to 1972 and then 37-50-23-25-21-2. Odds
        are that may have had a bit to do with it!

        In his book I don't recall Sinden discussing him but he did discuss how they
        chose Team Canada. They selected what they thought were the best 50 NHL
        skaters.the top 10 at each position then made a cut and adjusted down to 35.
        They looked for role guys as well as natural scorers, they wanted grinders
        like Cashman, Parise, Goldsworthy (Sinden felt he was a grinder for this
        level) et al. Sinden says that he was criticized for taking them but as he
        says "hockey games are won by diggers".

        Now remember at the start of the series they messed around with Espo putting
        him between Cournoyer and Mahvolich.two guys that could fly and had
        scratched Cashman and Parise. Essentially they went with the best guns but
        found out that the Russians were just too fast and were never suckered in so
        they wanted more grinders in the line up as of game two. Cashman (naturally)
        and Parise clicked well with Espo.remember not only did Sinden know Cashman
        but he also knew Parise who was in the Bruin system prior to expansion. But
        their first instinct seemed more of an all star less chemistry concept and
        like they wanted to skate with the Russians.Opening Night.The GAG line from
        New York.Hadfield-Ratelle-Gilbert, the aforementioned Espo between the two
        Habs. Pete Mahovlich-Berenson-Redmond and Henderson-Clarke -Ellis rounded
        things out. The game plan was in Sinden's words:

        "1) To put as much offensive pressure on the Russians as we could." (My
        note: remember they had a scouting report that Tretiak was weak.a CLASSIC
        example why you watch a goalie more than once...they saw him the night
        before his wedding)

        "2) to play the exact same style as we did in the NHL."

        "3) to shoot as often as we can form any angle as their goaltending was
        questionable." (see above)

        "4) to be aggressive but only when we were in a position to hit."

        "5) not do any fighting."

        They felt that "if we could break quick and get a couple of early goals they
        might panic." Thus they had also decided "to throw an offensive team on the
        ice against the Russians and carry the play to them. " They had two
        standards for selection for opening night; who had the best camp and if
        there was a tie they took the better offensive player.

        Taken in this context I think we have some insight into their thoughts. You
        can imply that they looked at it like "we can outplay these guys so we put a
        ton of skilled firepower out there but we will have grinders to back up in
        case.."

        So when you look at things in context.Hodge was coming off of a 16 goal year
        and take a look at the other right wings on that team in game one (which
        reflected the strategy they felt would win the series and their philosophy)
        they were far more consistent scorers. And as far as grinders go.he was
        never the pure scrapper guy like a Cashman (who was all elbows) or Parise
        (Jeep was a great PK)and Sinden saw Goldsworthy as the other classic grinder
        and he was a better natural scorer (only 1 year under 30 goals in a 6 year
        stretch never under 27, Hodge in the same six was blow 30 three times and
        each of those years were worse than Goldsworthy's worst) ) than Hodge.
        Folks should remember that Sinden KNEW Goldy and Parise as well as Hodge,
        perhaps in some ways even better. They were ex Bruin properties prior to
        expansion and played for Sinden in Oke City (as player and player coach he
        had actually played WITH Jeep for 4 years and Goldsworthy part of one.he
        never played with Hodge) and Boston. So it is obvious that Harry saw
        something that he felt that he had needed in those guys but not Hodge. Maybe
        it was the fire that Cashman and Parise brought.they came every night ready
        to go to war! And Goldsworhty was just a flat out consistent scorer.only
        Harry can answer that! And Hodge did miss 18 games due to injury the
        previous year.could it have played a role? Food for thought.

        Selecting any Team Canada is tough at any level and good players get passed
        over. Hell I remember a buddy of mine in the NHL telling Ron Francis to get
        US citizenship because he would never make Team Canada. Sure enough he never
        made the cut on the big teams (Olympic/World/Canada Cup) and only played in
        the Worlds once. You need not only to be an elite player but must be playing
        well the year of the selection and fit team chemistry/needs. Hodge, Dionne,
        Perrealt and Martin, et al were just the first early guys to find that out!

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Larry Sekuler
        According to Harry Sinden s book, Hockey Showdown, Team Canada made two special player requests of the Soviets prior to the Summit Series: The first was to
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 26, 2007
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          According to Harry Sinden's book, "Hockey Showdown," Team Canada made two special player requests of the Soviets prior to the Summit Series: The first was to let Stan Mikita play even though he was born in Czechoslovakia; and the second was to allow Team Canada to carry Bobby Orr as an extra player above the agreed-upon limit of 35 players, so they could use him in the event he were able to play. The Soviets agreed to both requests.

          So apparently, the special request was made only for Mikita, not anybody else, including such non-Canadian-born players as Ken Hodge and Walter Tkaczuk (who Sinden did invite but declined).

          Larry Sekuler

          -----Original Message-----
          >From: Craig <bflynn3@...>
          >Sent: Aug 26, 2007 12:52 PM
          >To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [hockhist] Re:Ken Hodge Question
          >
          >Bill,
          >
          >Great note! I appreciate it.
          >
          >The one comment I'll make is we need to find out if Ken Hodge had taken out Canadian citizenship. (Mikita was a Canadian citizen so there was no problem with him playing.) If he wasn't then Canada really could not have named him even if they wished to.
          >
          >I agree Hodge had a terrible 1971-72 year. But you didn't mention he had a great playoff. 9 goals and 8 assists in 15 games. I am not saying he was a difference maker or that Canada should have selected him. But considering that even though he was a very inconsistent player (I agree 100% with what you say there and certainly no arguments at all about Parise, Goldworthy, etc being better diggers) I am kind of surprised he wasn't named, if in fact he was eligible simply because it would have meant going into the series with another intact highly successful NHL line. The one advantage we all knew the Soviets would have was their team work. They played and practiced together on a regular basis. If Hodge could have played that would have meant coming into the series with perhaps the two top NHL lines (the Bruin and GAG lines) intact and that would have been a plus for Canada. (Just as an aside here I have watched and rewatched Game 1. Despite what Sinden said in his book the GAG line didn't stink the joint out. Yes they were on the ice for the first 3 Soviet goals but Rod Gilbert showed great wheels almost catching Petrov and stopping the Soviets second goal and Gilbert in particular created a couple of very good offensive chances in the game. They were no worse in my mind than any other Canadian player that night. And considering Sinden did go back to Seiling and Awrey in Game 4 after their ghastly performance in Game 1 and kept using the hopelessly inept Frank Mahovlich game after game I have to believe that Sinden simply had in in for the GAG line. I think we saw some Bruin bias here. They didn't have a great 1st game and based on that Sinden gave up on them and would not use them again.)
          >
          >Craig
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: William Underwood
          > To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:32 AM
          > Subject: [hockhist] Re:Ken Hodge Question
          >
          >
          > I believe that Hodge was a Canadian citizen thus eligible.remember Stan
          > Mikita was born in Czechoslovakia and played in the US but raised Canadian
          > and was on Team Canada. To my knowledge he could have played. Sinden doesn't
          > mention having wanted him in his book and I'll have to look in Drydens I may
          > real that he alluded to it but may be wrong. But since Ken was upset about
          > it, we see a hint that he was eligible.
          >
          > As to why he may not have been selected if eligible.remember in 71-2 he had
          > a LOUSY YEAR.16 goals in 60 games! And he was an up and down player.career
          > goal totals..6-10-25-45-25-43-16 up to 1972 and then 37-50-23-25-21-2. Odds
          > are that may have had a bit to do with it!
          >
          > In his book I don't recall Sinden discussing him but he did discuss how they
          > chose Team Canada. They selected what they thought were the best 50 NHL
          > skaters.the top 10 at each position then made a cut and adjusted down to 35.
          > They looked for role guys as well as natural scorers, they wanted grinders
          > like Cashman, Parise, Goldsworthy (Sinden felt he was a grinder for this
          > level) et al. Sinden says that he was criticized for taking them but as he
          > says "hockey games are won by diggers".
          >
          > Now remember at the start of the series they messed around with Espo putting
          > him between Cournoyer and Mahvolich.two guys that could fly and had
          > scratched Cashman and Parise. Essentially they went with the best guns but
          > found out that the Russians were just too fast and were never suckered in so
          > they wanted more grinders in the line up as of game two. Cashman (naturally)
          > and Parise clicked well with Espo.remember not only did Sinden know Cashman
          > but he also knew Parise who was in the Bruin system prior to expansion. But
          > their first instinct seemed more of an all star less chemistry concept and
          > like they wanted to skate with the Russians.Opening Night.The GAG line from
          > New York.Hadfield-Ratelle-Gilbert, the aforementioned Espo between the two
          > Habs. Pete Mahovlich-Berenson-Redmond and Henderson-Clarke -Ellis rounded
          > things out. The game plan was in Sinden's words:
          >
          > "1) To put as much offensive pressure on the Russians as we could." (My
          > note: remember they had a scouting report that Tretiak was weak.a CLASSIC
          > example why you watch a goalie more than once...they saw him the night
          > before his wedding)
          >
          > "2) to play the exact same style as we did in the NHL."
          >
          > "3) to shoot as often as we can form any angle as their goaltending was
          > questionable." (see above)
          >
          > "4) to be aggressive but only when we were in a position to hit."
          >
          > "5) not do any fighting."
          >
          > They felt that "if we could break quick and get a couple of early goals they
          > might panic." Thus they had also decided "to throw an offensive team on the
          > ice against the Russians and carry the play to them. " They had two
          > standards for selection for opening night; who had the best camp and if
          > there was a tie they took the better offensive player.
          >
          > Taken in this context I think we have some insight into their thoughts. You
          > can imply that they looked at it like "we can outplay these guys so we put a
          > ton of skilled firepower out there but we will have grinders to back up in
          > case.."
          >
          > So when you look at things in context.Hodge was coming off of a 16 goal year
          > and take a look at the other right wings on that team in game one (which
          > reflected the strategy they felt would win the series and their philosophy)
          > they were far more consistent scorers. And as far as grinders go.he was
          > never the pure scrapper guy like a Cashman (who was all elbows) or Parise
          > (Jeep was a great PK)and Sinden saw Goldsworthy as the other classic grinder
          > and he was a better natural scorer (only 1 year under 30 goals in a 6 year
          > stretch never under 27, Hodge in the same six was blow 30 three times and
          > each of those years were worse than Goldsworthy's worst) ) than Hodge.
          > Folks should remember that Sinden KNEW Goldy and Parise as well as Hodge,
          > perhaps in some ways even better. They were ex Bruin properties prior to
          > expansion and played for Sinden in Oke City (as player and player coach he
          > had actually played WITH Jeep for 4 years and Goldsworthy part of one.he
          > never played with Hodge) and Boston. So it is obvious that Harry saw
          > something that he felt that he had needed in those guys but not Hodge. Maybe
          > it was the fire that Cashman and Parise brought.they came every night ready
          > to go to war! And Goldsworhty was just a flat out consistent scorer.only
          > Harry can answer that! And Hodge did miss 18 games due to injury the
          > previous year.could it have played a role? Food for thought.
          >
          > Selecting any Team Canada is tough at any level and good players get passed
          > over. Hell I remember a buddy of mine in the NHL telling Ron Francis to get
          > US citizenship because he would never make Team Canada. Sure enough he never
          > made the cut on the big teams (Olympic/World/Canada Cup) and only played in
          > the Worlds once. You need not only to be an elite player but must be playing
          > well the year of the selection and fit team chemistry/needs. Hodge, Dionne,
          > Perrealt and Martin, et al were just the first early guys to find that out!
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Lloyd Davis
          Hodge isn t a name associated with Birmingham, which is listed as his birthplace, and in my mind that casts doubts on whether his family were truly Brummies.
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 26, 2007
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            Hodge isn't a name associated with Birmingham, which is listed as his
            birthplace, and in my mind that casts doubts on whether his family
            were truly "Brummies." I would not be surprised if Hodge's father
            turned out to be a Canadian serviceman, for instance.

            Even if his family emigrated, it wouldn't have been terribly
            difficult for him to be naturalized.

            In any event, we're talking about a guy who signed a C-form in 1960.
            The SIHR database has him playing first with the Lakeshore Bruins,
            but I have seen articles in the Toronto dailies about him playing for
            the Dixie Beehives in '60-61. In other words, a Canadian-trained
            hockey player. I don't think Hockey Canada would've had a problem
            getting him on the roster if Sinden and Ferguson legitimately wanted
            him on board.

            On Hodge's page on the HHOF's Legends of Hockey website, there is a
            quote from Hodge in which he mentions not getting along with Sinden.
            Now, Sinden surely would've held his nose and invited the guy if it
            meant the difference between winning and losing, but with the calibre
            of other right wings on that team, I don't think Hodge had a prayer.

            Note to Bill Underwood: Hodge only had 16 goals in the regular season
            in '71-72, but he also missed 18 games. If it was an injury, chances
            are he wasn't at his best in a handful of the games he did play. But
            by the spring he appears to have been in top form -- 9 goals and 8
            assists in 15 playoff games. One of the best playoff years of his
            career.




            On 25-Aug-07, at 7:51 PM, Craig wrote:

            > Hodge was born in England and was living in the US at the time of
            > the 1972 Summit so I am not sure what claim he could have made to
            > Canadian citizenship that would have allowed him to play. Does
            > anyone know if Team Canada could have gotten him on their roster if
            > they had chosen to do so?

            --
            Lloyd Davis
            Butterfield 8 Inc.
            19 Tennis Crescent, #6
            Toronto, ON M4K 1J4
            416 462 0230
            ldaviseditor@...
            --
          • William Underwood
            I agree it was a tough decision but like I say Team Canadas ALWAYS have tough decision guys. It is just so deep a bunch of players that you could name a B team
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 27, 2007
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              I agree it was a tough decision but like I say Team Canadas ALWAYS have
              tough decision guys. It is just so deep a bunch of players that you could
              name a B team and it probably would be darn close to being # 2 in the world!
              :-) I can see both sides. But it wasn't like Sinden didn't know Hodge so I
              defer to his opinion without much doubt and hey it is not like
              Cashman-Espo-Parise was bad! :-)



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • William Underwood
              I recall that. But I think Hodge would have been no issue. Keep in mind Mikita was a Czech which was an Iron Curtain country and he was sent over by his
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 27, 2007
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                I recall that. But I think Hodge would have been no issue. Keep in mind
                Mikita was a Czech which was an Iron Curtain country and he was sent over by
                his parents essentially to escape the Communists. So it was a sensitive
                issue that I can see would need to be addressed. I doubt Hodge would have
                been an issue.



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • William Underwood
                Lloyd.I did mention that he missed 18 games.but even had he played 78 if you look at his scoring rate odds are he still doesn t crack much past 25 or 26.not a
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 27, 2007
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                  Lloyd.I did mention that he missed 18 games.but even had he played 78 if you
                  look at his scoring rate odds are he still doesn't crack much past 25 or
                  26.not a great year. Yes he did have a good playoff but if I were looking at
                  this talent pool I'd be saying "what about the 60 games during the year and
                  even if you had been healthy why the drop?" With a talent pool like this you
                  don't have to settle for that.



                  Now I think that the point that he did not get along with Sinden is a
                  BIGGIE! It was also a contributing factor on the Bruins not protecting
                  Bernie Parent. Bernie even sort of alludes to it himself when he says in his
                  book that in one game he had to be put in due to injury and Sinden said "I
                  guess we have no choice, we have to put you in". You didn't screw with
                  Harry! The quickest route out of Boston was ANY contract issue. Time after
                  time he did it.dispute.sign you.ship you out. I tend to agree that if Canada
                  wanted him they could have had him.he was Canadian raised and I'm not sure
                  about his parents being both English. But as you say I would not be the
                  least surprised if his dad was Canadian and even if not with the old
                  Commonwealth Citizenship act citizenship would have been a snap and more or
                  less a formality. We do know that he came over very young so I doubt that
                  the issue of his being Canadian would have been that hard to prove. The
                  Soviets may have been argumentative but if they gave Mikita a pass Hodge
                  would have been a slam dunk! And I doubt that Hodge would have made stink
                  about it if he had not been Canadian.But if there was ANY friction AT ALL
                  between him and Sinden, given the fact that as we both say he was not a slam
                  dunk over other RW talent and that Sinden knew Parise and Goldsworthy quite
                  well his not being named is NO shock at all! I think that you found the
                  ultimate key.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Larry Sekuler
                  The question is not, to me, whether Hodge wouldn t have been an issue because he wasn t from a Communist country - the fact is that since Hockey Canada and the
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 27, 2007
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                    The question is not, to me, whether Hodge wouldn't have been an issue because he wasn't from a Communist country - the fact is that since Hockey Canada and the Soviets had negotiated a one-on-one contractual agreement for the Summit Series, ANY deviation from that agreement had to be addressed with the Soviets. The original agreement called for contracted NHL Canadian players, and therefore either Mikita or Hodge's eligibility to play would have had to be agreed upon by the Soviets.

                    Larry Sekuler

                    -----Original Message-----
                    >From: William Underwood <wausport@...>
                    >Sent: Aug 27, 2007 8:12 AM
                    >To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: [hockhist] Re: Ken Hodge Question
                    >
                    >I recall that. But I think Hodge would have been no issue. Keep in mind
                    >Mikita was a Czech which was an Iron Curtain country and he was sent over by
                    >his parents essentially to escape the Communists. So it was a sensitive
                    >issue that I can see would need to be addressed. I doubt Hodge would have
                    >been an issue.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Lloyd Davis
                    I guess we re looking at the same limited data from different angles. I d be looking at the playoff stats as confirmation that he hadn t lost his touch. Your
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 27, 2007
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                      I guess we're looking at the same limited data from different angles.
                      I'd be looking at the playoff stats as confirmation that he hadn't
                      lost his touch. Your view is that the regular season casts doubt on
                      his effectiveness in the playoffs, and perhaps even the validity of
                      his numbers in '68-69 and '70-71.

                      I'd want to know more about the way he was being used in those 60
                      games (evidently, not much on the power play, as he didn't score a
                      single PPG, compared with 4 and 9 in the two previous years). I'd
                      want to know whether he was playing any regular-season games when he
                      was less than 100 percent. (What was the nature of the injury,
                      anyway? His assists suggest he could still pass the puck, but his
                      shot was lacking something.) Of course, the Bruins' offence was bound
                      to drop off after a record-setting 399 goals in '70-71, and it did,
                      by about a sixth, to 330.

                      Of course, I grant that they wouldn't have thought that way in 1972.
                      And as we both agree, if I'm Harry Sinden, I've made up my mind that
                      Hodge can't play for me and that there are other right wingers.



                      On 27-Aug-07, at 11:30 AM, William Underwood wrote:

                      > Lloyd.I did mention that he missed 18 games.but even had he played
                      > 78 if you
                      > look at his scoring rate odds are he still doesn't crack much past
                      > 25 or
                      > 26.not a great year. Yes he did have a good playoff but if I were
                      > looking at
                      > this talent pool I'd be saying "what about the 60 games during the
                      > year and
                      > even if you had been healthy why the drop?" With a talent pool like
                      > this you
                      > don't have to settle for that.

                      --
                      Lloyd Davis
                      Butterfield 8 Inc.
                      19 Tennis Crescent, #6
                      Toronto, ON M4K 1J4
                      416 462 0230
                      ldaviseditor@...
                      --
                    • Swanrvr80@aol.com
                      Ken Hodge openly admitted that he didn t get along with Sinden.? For one quote, go here: http://www.oldtimershockey.com/players/hodge.html I think what Harry
                      Message 10 of 23 , Aug 27, 2007
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                        Ken Hodge openly admitted that he didn't get along with Sinden.? For one quote, go here:



                        http://www.oldtimershockey.com/players/hodge.html

                        I think what Harry Sinden thought about any player affected both his selection and playing time.? Vic Hadfield's treatment by him comes to mind.

                        Jay in Milford


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: William Underwood <wausport@...>
                        To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:30 am
                        Subject: [hockhist] Re: Ken Hodge Question







                        Lloyd.I did mention that he missed 18 games.but even had he played 78 if you
                        look at his scoring rate odds are he still doesn't crack much past 25 or
                        26.not a great year. Yes he did have a good playoff but if I were looking at
                        this talent pool I'd be saying "what about the 60 games during the year and
                        even if you had been healthy why the drop?" With a talent pool like this you
                        don't have to settle for that.

                        Now I think that the point that he did not get along with Sinden is a
                        BIGGIE! It was also a contributing factor on the Bruins not protecting
                        Bernie Parent. Bernie even sort of alludes to it himself when he says in his
                        book that in one game he had to be put in due to injury and Sinden said "I
                        guess we have no choice, we have to put you in". You didn't screw with
                        Harry! The quickest route out of Boston was ANY contract issue. Time after
                        time he did it.dispute.sign you.ship you out. I tend to agree that if Canada
                        wanted him they could have had him.he was Canadian raised and I'm not sure
                        about his parents being both English. But as you say I would not be the
                        least surprised if his dad was Canadian and even if not with the old
                        Commonwealth Citizenship act citizenship would have been a snap and more or
                        less a formality. We do know that he came over very young so I doubt that
                        the issue of his being Canadian would have been that hard to prove. The
                        Soviets may have been argumentative but if they gave Mikita a pass Hodge
                        would have been a slam dunk! And I doubt that Hodge would have made stink
                        about it if he had not been Canadian.But if there was ANY friction AT ALL
                        between him and Sinden, given the fact that as we both say he was not a slam
                        dunk over other RW talent and that Sinden knew Parise and Goldsworthy quite
                        well his not being named is NO shock at all! I think that you found the
                        ultimate key.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        ________________________________________________________________________
                        Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Lloyd Davis
                        I note that that s the exact article, word for word, that appears on the HHOF s Legends of Hockey website. ... -- Lloyd Davis Butterfield 8 Inc. 19 Tennis
                        Message 11 of 23 , Aug 27, 2007
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                          I note that that's the exact article, word for word, that appears on
                          the HHOF's Legends of Hockey website.


                          On 27-Aug-07, at 1:48 PM, Swanrvr80@... wrote:

                          > Ken Hodge openly admitted that he didn't get along with Sinden.?
                          > For one quote, go here:
                          >
                          > http://www.oldtimershockey.com/players/hodge.html

                          --
                          Lloyd Davis
                          Butterfield 8 Inc.
                          19 Tennis Crescent, #6
                          Toronto, ON M4K 1J4
                          416 462 0230
                          ldaviseditor@...
                          --
                        • Glen and Peggy Wright
                          It s interesting to speculate why Hodge wasn t picked, given what an important role he played on those great Bruin teams. I can t believe it was just because
                          Message 12 of 23 , Aug 27, 2007
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                            It's interesting to speculate why Hodge wasn't picked, given what an important role he played on those great Bruin teams. I can't believe it was just because he and Sinden didn't get along. You can criticize Sinden all you like, but he wasn't the type of person who put pettiness ahead of the team. And, I don't think it was simply that Hodge had a subpar 71-72 regular season (he was strong in the playoffs, as other posts have noted). A lot of Bruins saw their point totals fall in 1972 - Cashman went from 79 to 52, I think, yet he was named to the team.

                            Canada's top two right wing were Cournoyer and Gilbert (Cournoyer had 47 goals in 71-72, Gilbert 43). The other RW selected ahead of Hodge would have been Ron Ellis (great skater, strong defensively), Bill Goldsworthy (good hands, good skater, aggressive) and Mickey Redmond (42 goal season). If you've slotted Cournoyer and Gilbert into your top two lines, maybe Sinden simply thought that Hodge wouldn't fit into how the rest of the roster was being constructed. The team's forwards seems to have been created around a core group of superstars (Esposito, Cournoyer, Frank Mahovlich, Ratelle) augmented by plumbers (Cashman, Parise) and penalty killers (Ellis, Pete Mahovlich). A number of rookies and sophmores were added, like Perreault and Dionne, for their enthusiasm and talent one supposes. Pehaps if Sinden couldn't foresee Hodge on the top two offensive lines, he couldn't see a spot for him on the team. Or, maybe there was only one spot for a large, 200+ pound sometimes lumbering winger and Hadfield was given the part.

                            Still, it's strange that a spot on the 35 man roster couldn't have been opened for Hodge.

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Lloyd Davis
                            To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 12:24 PM
                            Subject: Re: [hockhist] Re: Ken Hodge Question


                            I note that that's the exact article, word for word, that appears on
                            the HHOF's Legends of Hockey website.

                            On 27-Aug-07, at 1:48 PM, Swanrvr80@... wrote:

                            > Ken Hodge openly admitted that he didn't get along with Sinden.?
                            > For one quote, go here:
                            >
                            > http://www.oldtimershockey.com/players/hodge.html

                            --
                            Lloyd Davis
                            Butterfield 8 Inc.
                            19 Tennis Crescent, #6
                            Toronto, ON M4K 1J4
                            416 462 0230
                            ldaviseditor@...
                            --





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • William Underwood
                            The way that I was looking was at the data more like they would have perceived it in 1972 as that is the germane issue. It doesn t really matter what you or I
                            Message 13 of 23 , Aug 28, 2007
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                              The way that I was looking was at the data more like they would have
                              perceived it in 1972 as that is the germane issue. It doesn't really matter
                              what you or I think but what Harry Sinden was thinking and given that he was
                              not chosen and the question was why not you have to look at data and
                              reasoning that says "why not" as opposed to why he should have been picked.
                              So if you were looking at why he should have been picked indeed we were
                              operating from opposite ends.the Sinden and the "anti Sinden" if you will.
                              :-) I was trying to crawl into Harry's mind and see what he did to say "no
                              thanks".



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • William Underwood
                              True but if Hodge was a Canadian citizen he would have been a Canadian. There may have been misunderstandings but unless the contract/understanding said
                              Message 14 of 23 , Aug 28, 2007
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                                True but if Hodge was a Canadian citizen he would have been a Canadian.
                                There may have been misunderstandings but unless the contract/understanding
                                said "Canadian born" where is the issue? Now Mikita was an issue-- citizen
                                or not in that era for the Soviets especially given that the Canadians
                                played the Czechs after the series. Did they want a prominent player who had
                                in effect fled communism playing in the satellite country where he had left?
                                Keep in mind many of these people were classified as criminals.so my point
                                is if Team Canada had wanted Hodge and there had been an issue of the Sovs
                                let Mikita play odds are Hodge would have been a slam dunk. Now one can say
                                that they could have said "so you bring in another one we already let you
                                pass on one." But if Canada had REALLY wanted Hodge they could have asked at
                                the same time.the worst that could have happened was that they would say no.
                                And bear in mind it was the Russians who had started talks about the series
                                not Canada. My point about Mikita is if they were going to say no to anyone
                                it would have been him and the Canadians had to know that. He was a guy that
                                had fled their satellite country where just 4 years before there had been
                                Prague Spring where they sent in tanks. A player who had fled not so
                                coincidentally just when the Communist State was being established not only
                                coming to Moscow but Prague was a potential issue, MUCH more so than a
                                Canadian born in England a country where the citizenship laws of Canada had
                                a special bond anyway. The Russian knew about Mikita and anyone who saw his
                                birthplace and the years can put two and two together.Czech kid came to
                                Canada late 40's.



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Larry Sekuler
                                In essence, the order in which Team Canada 72 did things was they invited players first, got their agreement to play, and only then started looking at
                                Message 15 of 23 , Aug 28, 2007
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                                  In essence, the order in which Team Canada 72 did things was they invited players first, got their agreement to play, and only then started looking at potential problems. So I would agree with you that had they both been selected for the team in the first place and agreed to play, Hodge would have been less of an issue than Mikita - but the argument is purely hypothetical since Hodge wasn't selected and Mikita was. Therefore, only Mikita's elibility to play required agreement from the Soviets. And the Soviets did agree, no bones about it. They didn't raise the spectre of Mikita's being from a Communist country.

                                  Larry Sekuler

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  >From: William Underwood <wausport@...>
                                  >Sent: Aug 28, 2007 7:27 AM
                                  >To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Subject: [hockhist] Re: Ken Hodge Question
                                  >
                                  >True but if Hodge was a Canadian citizen he would have been a Canadian.
                                  >There may have been misunderstandings but unless the contract/understanding
                                  >said "Canadian born" where is the issue? Now Mikita was an issue-- citizen
                                  >or not in that era for the Soviets especially given that the Canadians
                                  >played the Czechs after the series. Did they want a prominent player who had
                                  >in effect fled communism playing in the satellite country where he had left?
                                  >Keep in mind many of these people were classified as criminals.so my point
                                  >is if Team Canada had wanted Hodge and there had been an issue of the Sovs
                                  >let Mikita play odds are Hodge would have been a slam dunk. Now one can say
                                  >that they could have said "so you bring in another one we already let you
                                  >pass on one." But if Canada had REALLY wanted Hodge they could have asked at
                                  >the same time.the worst that could have happened was that they would say no.
                                  >And bear in mind it was the Russians who had started talks about the series
                                  >not Canada. My point about Mikita is if they were going to say no to anyone
                                  >it would have been him and the Canadians had to know that. He was a guy that
                                  >had fled their satellite country where just 4 years before there had been
                                  >Prague Spring where they sent in tanks. A player who had fled not so
                                  >coincidentally just when the Communist State was being established not only
                                  >coming to Moscow but Prague was a potential issue, MUCH more so than a
                                  >Canadian born in England a country where the citizenship laws of Canada had
                                  >a special bond anyway. The Russian knew about Mikita and anyone who saw his
                                  >birthplace and the years can put two and two together.Czech kid came to
                                  >Canada late 40's.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • William Underwood
                                  GOOD INSIGHT.a couple of things grab me here. The scrappiness issue.we see Hodge complain about his role witht eh Hawks and that Boston fans wanted more
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Aug 28, 2007
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                                    GOOD INSIGHT.a couple of things grab me here.



                                    The scrappiness issue.we see Hodge complain about his role witht eh Hawks
                                    and that Boston fans wanted more hitting.Cashman relished being a disturber
                                    and banger.remember Sinden said "we want to hit them whenever we get the
                                    chance." Hodge was not a guy that was going to want to do that by his own
                                    admission. We also see "never physical in the corners." Now Team Canada was
                                    already laced with better open ice players like Cournoyer, Gilbert et al who
                                    were not hitter on wing. Then we see the Sinden statement they "didn't see
                                    eye to eye" (BAD NO NO with Harry) and how he flourished under Johnson post
                                    Sinden. Then to add on you have the Cherry quote of "country clubber" which
                                    Sinden obviously approved of as he traded Hodge when Cherry pushed for it
                                    and remember it was always HARRY that ran the show in Boston NOTHING
                                    happened there without his stamp.



                                    This adds onto and confirms a lot. I'm not so sure that if Hodge had been
                                    born in the heart of Ottawa he would have been selected unless he had scored
                                    50 odd goals the year before given all of this.



                                    Then we factor in that they went to bat for Mikita.they even went to bat for
                                    the WHA guys with the NHL but not Hodge. Why? He was not as important a
                                    slice as Mikita or Hull or Cheevers or Tremblay or even Sanderson (selected
                                    over Hodge again for a specialist role-he may have had Clarke's spot had he
                                    played as Clarke was technically their checking line center) in the eyes of
                                    management.



                                    This brings us to another thought.had Hull played who would Sinden have
                                    played him with? Remember in Chicago he played with Martin not Mikita and
                                    part of the reason that they traded Espo was that he was not an ideal center
                                    for Hull.

                                    Now say he started the series playing him with Espo and it didn't work.he
                                    would not have scratched Hull so who does he go to? Does he TRY Mikita with
                                    him who at times played with him in Chicago. In which case does Espo get
                                    less ice?

                                    Just fun stuff to mull over.





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Karkoski James
                                    ... The TSN Hockey Register lists Hodge as having fractured his ankle during the 71-72 season which might have played a part in his not being selected for the
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Aug 28, 2007
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                                      On 2007.8.30, at 12:28 AM, Lloyd Davis wrote:

                                      > A look through the Toronto dailies during the 1971-72 season sheds
                                      > some light. Early on, Bill said that Hodge was a player who blew hot
                                      > and cold, and it certainly seems to have been the case in '71-72.
                                      >
                                      > An AP story in the December 6 editions of the Star noted that Hodge
                                      > scored a pair of goals against Pittsburgh the night before.
                                      > Previously, he hadn't scored in 14 games, and these were his fifth
                                      > and sixth goals of the season.
                                      >
                                      > By Boxing Day he was on a tear, having scored six more times in his
                                      > previous seven games, for a total of 12 on the season to date.
                                      >
                                      > On December 22, Jim Proudfoot wrote a column about Leafs GM Jim
                                      > Gregory. In this and other pieces, the Star's take on the NHL was
                                      > that there were two groups: the top five (Boston, New York, Chicago,
                                      > Montreal, Detroit), and then, after a serious drop-off, the other
                                      > nine. (Me, I'm not so sure about Detroit, but at the time it must
                                      > have seemed plausible.)
                                      >
                                      > The Leafs were ranked at the head of the second tier. Probably a fair
                                      > snapshot; they had Plante and Parent in goal and four good centres.
                                      > The defence was green as Astroturf, but seemed to benefit that year
                                      > from the presence of Baun and Plante, who had his ideas about how his
                                      > defencemen should play. (A year later, the Whalers certainly seemed
                                      > to find value on the Leafs' blue line.)
                                      >
                                      > Proudfoot says Gregory's options in terms of improving the team and
                                      > breaking into the upper tier were limited. But he mentions an attempt
                                      > by Toronto to acquire Ken Hodge "when Bruins were thinking of letting
                                      > him go."
                                      >
                                      > Well, if Hodge was indeed in play (and why wouldn't he be?) -- it
                                      > speaks volumes. If the Boston front office didn't think Hodge was one
                                      > of the top four RWs on the Bruins roster, why should Sinden, a few
                                      > months later, think of him as one of the top four or five in the
                                      > world (in deference to Bill, I'm applying the thinking of 1972 here:
                                      > "world" means NHL).
                                      >
                                      > As it turned out, the Bruins did trade a right wing later that season
                                      > -- Reg Leach, for Carol Vadnais. I'll leave it for others to
                                      > determine whether this was because (a) Hodge's trade value had proved
                                      > to be nil, or (b) his stock in Boston had rebounded.
                                      >


                                      The TSN Hockey Register lists Hodge as having fractured his ankle
                                      during the 71-72 season which might have played a part in his not being
                                      selected for the team even though he played well in the playoffs a la
                                      Bobby Orr.


                                      As for not selecting him, Hodge really wasn't that mobile a player and
                                      given the way that the Soviets were always in motion he might not have
                                      been thought of as the right kind of player for the team.


                                      As for not being traded to the Seals, the Seals had hired Gary Young
                                      who was the B's scouting director as their GM and Young was interested
                                      in getting young talent for his team who had already traded away all
                                      their top draft amateur draft picks. So he got Leach (age 21), Bob
                                      Stewart (21) and Rick Smith (23) for Vadnais. Young wasn't interested
                                      in a parrallel trade of his only star player for another star player.


                                      James
                                    • William Underwood
                                      All true! And in all honesty I am a bit surprised with the team going to Prague that there was so little stink unless of course they figured NOT letting Mikita
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Aug 29, 2007
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                                        All true! And in all honesty I am a bit surprised with the team going to
                                        Prague that there was so little stink unless of course they figured NOT
                                        letting Mikita go would just piss off the Czechs worse! He was well known in
                                        his old country.



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • William Underwood
                                        Absolutely.good analysis! If Hodge was needed Sinden would have taken him. But IF he was borderline factors like an off year or a coach not liking you CAN come
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Aug 29, 2007
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                                          Absolutely.good analysis! If Hodge was needed Sinden would have taken him.



                                          But IF he was borderline factors like an off year or a coach not liking you
                                          CAN come into play. And keep in mind when he said Sinden and him "didn't
                                          see eye to eye" it doesn't mean personalities necessarily.in could also mean
                                          that Sinden wanted more out of him as a hockey player. Remember he also says
                                          that his ice time and PP time increased under Tommy Johnson. We also have to
                                          remember that Harry Sinden did trade Hodge when he had issues with Cherry.
                                          So it may not have been as much "pettiness" but that Sinden was just not as
                                          fired up about Hodge AS A PLAYER to select him. And honestly.THAT is being a
                                          GOOD GM/Coach.put other loyalties behind you and take the BEST! Now Harry
                                          has ALWAYS been a straight shooter.he would let a guy know what he thought
                                          be it as a coach or a GM negotiating a deal and if there was a problem it
                                          was the player who went. He did not give in much, had a plan and stuck to it
                                          be it in terms of team building or payroll. And he was one of the longest
                                          serving GM's for one club in league history for that reason. I can't really
                                          give him any gripe here. I tend to agree with both him and you.if I were
                                          selecting Team Canada and had what Harry did in mind I would have done the
                                          SAME THING! Cournoyer and Gilbert were more mobile snipers.let us not forget
                                          Mickey Redmond.if I thought that a team was soft in goal (and they thought
                                          the Soviets were) here was a guy that I'd want SHOOTING! Goldsworthy was
                                          more rounded. Ellis was a FABULOUS all rounder.one the really under rated
                                          guys of his era! Hodge was not a great skater and like you say they already
                                          had Hadfield who, in 20-20 hindsight, had a lousy series and quit due to
                                          being scratched! Parise was just a plumber's plumber and to win a series you
                                          need a HOCKEY TEAM not necessarily an all star team.you NEED guys like that!



                                          Add on that we have not one but three coaches question Hodge's intensity.the
                                          Hawks traded him for it, Cherry dumped him for it and we hear Hodge say that
                                          him and Sinden had issues.could that have been the issue? So you have a star
                                          studded line up with Team Canada but as you say you NEED some fire on a
                                          team! In Quebec we had it in Hunter.and I remember the day that we traded
                                          him a buddy of mine with the Habs gleefully came up to me and said "Billy
                                          what the hell are you guys doing, you just traded away your whole team." Not
                                          about Stastny or Goulet but HUNTER. Why? Guys like that are cogs..you NEED
                                          them.they are a constant, a spark and versatile.Of course we did pretty good
                                          getting a guy named Sakic with the pick (a BIG part of why we made the deal
                                          we figured he'd be there) but he was only 18 at the time! :-) Still it just
                                          goes to show you why a Parise would be important.



                                          I think that there were a ton of valid reasons to not select him. You can
                                          talk chemistry but then again they had a LONG camp to develop new
                                          chemistries. Plus they had a ton of great hockey players to blend.remember
                                          the Gretzky-Lemieux-Hawerchuik/Tocchet line in 87? I doubt that there has
                                          ever been a better line! And Espo still had Cashman who I think that Sinden
                                          saw as the key guy for him.not Hodge. He was the digger to get Espo the puck
                                          in the slot. Note Big Phil was never the same without him.once they played
                                          together Espo went from a 40 odd goal man to 60 plus.Hodge didn't do that!
                                          Nor did he perk him up with the Rangers.the Rangers got the wrong guy and
                                          Harry KNEW that! Each line has a third guy in importance.I'm not so sure
                                          that Hodge.not Cashman was actually #3 in making that line tick and in fact
                                          the Summit supports that.Parise comes in to join Espo and Cashman and they
                                          clicked like nothing was missing.I'm not so sure that a Goldsworthy couldn't
                                          have been a "Hodge" if Harry had taken his route. Having dealt with the
                                          Bruins in the 90's with Johnstown (I prompted getting them as a parent club
                                          through some old NHL connections) and having participated in some
                                          tournaments with one of their vet scouts.I got a bit of an insight into
                                          their organization and Harry and came away with a lot of admiration for them
                                          and their philosophy. He has a great hockey mind!



                                          Kenny Hodge was a very good player (note I can't say "great") from the 70's
                                          and worthy of a lot of accolades but I think Harry got this one right!



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Lloyd Davis
                                          A look through the Toronto dailies during the 1971-72 season sheds some light. Early on, Bill said that Hodge was a player who blew hot and cold, and it
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Aug 29, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            A look through the Toronto dailies during the 1971-72 season sheds
                                            some light. Early on, Bill said that Hodge was a player who blew hot
                                            and cold, and it certainly seems to have been the case in '71-72.

                                            An AP story in the December 6 editions of the Star noted that Hodge
                                            scored a pair of goals against Pittsburgh the night before.
                                            Previously, he hadn't scored in 14 games, and these were his fifth
                                            and sixth goals of the season.

                                            By Boxing Day he was on a tear, having scored six more times in his
                                            previous seven games, for a total of 12 on the season to date.

                                            On December 22, Jim Proudfoot wrote a column about Leafs GM Jim
                                            Gregory. In this and other pieces, the Star's take on the NHL was
                                            that there were two groups: the top five (Boston, New York, Chicago,
                                            Montreal, Detroit), and then, after a serious drop-off, the other
                                            nine. (Me, I'm not so sure about Detroit, but at the time it must
                                            have seemed plausible.)

                                            The Leafs were ranked at the head of the second tier. Probably a fair
                                            snapshot; they had Plante and Parent in goal and four good centres.
                                            The defence was green as Astroturf, but seemed to benefit that year
                                            from the presence of Baun and Plante, who had his ideas about how his
                                            defencemen should play. (A year later, the Whalers certainly seemed
                                            to find value on the Leafs' blue line.)

                                            Proudfoot says Gregory's options in terms of improving the team and
                                            breaking into the upper tier were limited. But he mentions an attempt
                                            by Toronto to acquire Ken Hodge "when Bruins were thinking of letting
                                            him go."

                                            Well, if Hodge was indeed in play (and why wouldn't he be?) -- it
                                            speaks volumes. If the Boston front office didn't think Hodge was one
                                            of the top four RWs on the Bruins roster, why should Sinden, a few
                                            months later, think of him as one of the top four or five in the
                                            world (in deference to Bill, I'm applying the thinking of 1972 here:
                                            "world" means NHL).

                                            As it turned out, the Bruins did trade a right wing later that season
                                            -- Reg Leach, for Carol Vadnais. I'll leave it for others to
                                            determine whether this was because (a) Hodge's trade value had proved
                                            to be nil, or (b) his stock in Boston had rebounded.




                                            --
                                            Lloyd Davis
                                            Butterfield 8 Inc.
                                            19 Tennis Crescent, #6
                                            Toronto, ON M4K 1J4
                                            416 462 0230
                                            ldaviseditor@...
                                            --
                                          • Lloyd Davis
                                            ... Interesting. I also noted a reference to a sprained ankle in the Toronto Star just before the playoffs began. Not as far off the line as calling it an
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Aug 29, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              On 28-Aug-07, at 4:28 PM, Karkoski James wrote:

                                              > The TSN Hockey Register lists Hodge as having fractured his ankle
                                              > during the 71-72 season which might have played a part in his not
                                              > being
                                              > selected for the team even though he played well in the playoffs a la
                                              > Bobby Orr.


                                              Interesting. I also noted a reference to a "sprained ankle" in the
                                              Toronto Star just before the playoffs began. Not as far off the line
                                              as calling it an "upper body injury," but funny nonetheless.


                                              >
                                              >
                                              > As for not selecting him, Hodge really wasn't that mobile a player and
                                              > given the way that the Soviets were always in motion he might not have
                                              > been thought of as the right kind of player for the team.


                                              A good point. There are so many reasons for Hodge being left off the
                                              team that don't involve his heritage that I really must doubt it was
                                              an issue.



                                              >
                                              >
                                              > As for not being traded to the Seals, the Seals had hired Gary Young
                                              > who was the B's scouting director as their GM and Young was
                                              > interested
                                              > in getting young talent for his team who had already traded away all
                                              > their top draft amateur draft picks. So he got Leach (age 21), Bob
                                              > Stewart (21) and Rick Smith (23) for Vadnais. Young wasn't interested
                                              > in a parrallel trade of his only star player for another star player.


                                              Right. I wasn't suggesting that the Seals would have considered
                                              Hodge. Just noting that Hodge had apparently been in play, and
                                              couldn't be moved. In noting that a subsequent deal involved a right
                                              winger, I thought it might have something to do with Hodge's
                                              continued employment in Boston, especially after the defection of
                                              Boston forwards to the WHA.

                                              --
                                              Lloyd Davis
                                              Butterfield 8 Inc.
                                              19 Tennis Crescent, #6
                                              Toronto, ON M4K 1J4
                                              416 462 0230
                                              ldaviseditor@...
                                              --
                                            • William Underwood
                                              GOOD POINT! Absolutely.the Seals were forever on the endless treadmill of trying to build on youth but trading it away before it bloomed and trading away the
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Aug 30, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                GOOD POINT! Absolutely.the Seals were forever on the endless treadmill of
                                                trying to build on youth but trading it away before it bloomed and trading
                                                away the picks that could augment it with the big star.remember the Lafleur
                                                deal! They actually did own some good players over the years but never all
                                                at once and it was an endless treadmill and perpetual building project that
                                                never got finished! :-)



                                                I'm not so sure how much the ankle had to do with Hodge by the summer as it
                                                was healed since he did have a good playoff. But the stylistic aspects that
                                                you brought up I'm sure had a role to play.



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