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Re: [hockhist] Lexicon/Sweaters

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  • john.serrati@johnabbott.qc.ca
    I do agree Ian, I am all for keeping traditions, and at the forefront of this is language. However, I see it as a losing battle, the people will call a thing
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 1, 2006
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      I do agree Ian, I am all for keeping traditions, and at the forefront of
      this is language. However, I see it as a losing battle, the people will
      call a thing what they want to call it. And in terms of people, for every
      one Canadian there are roughly ten Americans, and thus, often sadly, their
      terms win out over ours.

      When I was growing up, we never sat on a couch or sofa, we sat on our
      Chesterfield. This term, exclusive to Canada, seems to be now long gone.
      This, along with sweater and gauntlets, saddens me greatly, but I do not
      see what can be done.

      Even government intervention only goes so far. Look at the Office de la
      langue francaise here in Quebec. For years they have trying to get
      golfers to use French terms on the course, but all Francophones I know who
      are avid golfers still say 'un birdie' rather than 'une oisette'.

      By the way, 'hat trick' is a cricket term, no question. It refers to a
      bowler bowling out three consecutive batsmen. Apparently, in the
      nineteenth century sometime, some millinery company sponsored a promotion
      where anyone who accomplished the feat received a new top hat (it was a
      very aristocratic sport back then after all). I remember reading an
      article on this years ago. All etymoligists consulted said that,
      bizarrely, the term had nothing whatsoever to do with magic.

      John


      Dr John Serrati
      Assistant Prof. of Classics and History
      John Abbott College
      21,275 Lakeshore Road
      St-Anne-de-Bellevue, Quebec
      H9X 3L9

      (514) 457-6610 ext. 5992
    • Ian Wilson
      john.serrati@johnabbott.qc.ca wrote: Even government intervention only goes so far. Look at the Office de la langue francaise here in Quebec. For years they
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 1, 2006
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        john.serrati@... wrote:



        Even government intervention only goes so far. Look at the Office de la
        langue francaise here in Quebec. For years they have trying to get
        golfers to use French terms on the course, but all Francophones I know who
        are avid golfers still say 'un birdie' rather than 'une oisette'.
        I disagree with that intensely. Despite an English name I am an Acadian, raised in French and I would say French hold onto their heritage tooth and nail. Reffering to a birdie is a golf term, and French people were introduced to golf, there was no reason to change it. On the other hand French people make up a very small portion of the population of North America, but they cling to things uniquely their own. Examples in hockey, as anyone who ever listened to french broadcasts can tell is the use of the familair form of given Christian names in the English Language. There is no such equivalent in French. A guy named Joseph is never going to called Joe, or Rocket Richard was never Moe to anyone. Robert does n;t become Bob in French. The French don't give into pressure to assimilate. When I first heard an English Broadcast of Hockey Night In Canada I wondered if the speedy little winger playing for the Canadiens was any relation to Robert Rousseau, until I
        realized Bobby Rousseau was the same guy. Same thing with any of the Bobby's or Gordie's who played the game. In French it Robery Hull, Gordon Howe.


        By the way, 'hat trick' is a cricket term, no question. It refers to a
        bowler bowling out three consecutive batsmen. Apparently, in the
        nineteenth century sometime, some millinery company sponsored a promotion


        I don't for a minute doubt that Hat Trick was used in crickett before hockey, but I have read why the Habadasher in question made the promotion, and it had nothing to do with crickett.

        ian


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      • john.serrati@johnabbott.qc.ca
        ... Yes, that is exactly my point. It is far easier to retain linguistic traditions when you are an isolated group. Quebecers are not bombarded with TV from
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 2, 2006
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          > On the other hand French people make up a very small portion of the
          > population of North America, but they cling to things uniquely their
          > own.

          Yes, that is exactly my point. It is far easier to retain linguistic
          traditions when you are an isolated group. Quebecers are not bombarded
          with TV from France, but all Canadians are inundated with American media
          of every kind on an hourly basis. I am not saying that this is a bad
          thing, it is just the way it is. But small groups who have a strong
          cultural identity certainly have the ability to protect their language
          more. My in-laws are are Norwegian, and they do a very good job of
          protecting their language despite receiving Swedish, German, and English
          TV, music, and films by the truckload. But again there are only five
          million of them and no one else in the world speaks Norwegian except for
          Norwegians. Not so with the United States and Canada in terms of English.

          A guy named Joseph is never going to called Joe, or Rocket Richard was
          > never Moe to anyone. Robert does n;t become Bob in French.

          I suppose we know very different people then. I play on a soccer team
          that features two Anglos (one being me), an Englishman, and fifteen French
          Quebecers, some of whom do not speak English. Robert is most certainly
          called Bob by everyone, and Mathieu is Matt. A former student of mine was
          a Jonathan (French pronunciation). The Anglos all called him Jon, but
          among is Francophone friends he is Jo. So much so that I asked them once
          who this Joe guy was, thinking it was short for Joseph. They told me it
          was common for French Jonathans to be called Jo.

          > I don't for a minute doubt that Hat Trick was used in crickett before
          > hockey, but I have read why the Habadasher in question made the
          > promotion, and it had nothing to do with crickett.

          Interesting, I would love to know more.

          Thanks,

          John

          Dr John Serrati
          Assistant Prof. of Classics and History
          John Abbott College
          21,275 Lakeshore Road
          St-Anne-de-Bellevue, Quebec
          H9X 3L9

          (514) 457-6610 ext. 5992
        • Lloyd Davis
          Another example would be the current GM of the Pittsburgh Penguins, Ray Shero. It s either a short form or anglicization (or both) of Rejean. Nor was it
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 2, 2006
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            Another example would be the current GM of the Pittsburgh Penguins,
            Ray Shero. It's either a short form or anglicization (or both) of
            Rejean. Nor was it uncommon to see Rejean Houle referred to as
            Reggie. Marcel Dionne's brother Renald was known as Ron in his junior
            days, albeit in Ontario in the late '60s.

            --
            Lloyd Davis Communications
            304-115 Danforth Avenue
            Toronto, ON M4K 1N2 // 416 465 6999
            ldavis@...



            On 2-Dec-06, at 9:49 AM, john.serrati@... wrote:

            > A guy named Joseph is never going to called Joe, or Rocket
            > Richard was
            >> never Moe to anyone. Robert does n;t become Bob in French.
            >
            > I suppose we know very different people then. I play on a soccer team
            > that features two Anglos (one being me), an Englishman, and fifteen
            > French
            > Quebecers, some of whom do not speak English. Robert is most
            > certainly
            > called Bob by everyone, and Mathieu is Matt.
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