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Re: [hockhist] 1964 Stanley Cup game 6 Toronto Detroit on TV

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  • Jason Kasiorek
    Thanks Dave, Very interesting reading. -- Jason Kasiorek Publisher http://www.griffinscentral.com From: goaliedave Subject:
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 1, 2006
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      Thanks Dave,

      Very interesting reading.


      --
      Jason Kasiorek
      Publisher
      http://www.griffinscentral.com



      From: "goaliedave" <goaliedave@...>
      Subject: [hockhist] 1964 Stanley Cup game 6 Toronto Detroit on TV


      Hi all, they showed Game 6 of the 1964 Stanley Cup Final on something called
      "APTN Stanley Cup Classics" Saturday night while I was vacationing just
      north of Barrie Ontario, channel 40. It looks like a Saturday night series
      as they are showing the 1967 Final game 7 next Sat Aug 5 at 9pm... if any of
      you can locate it on your TV systems. I haven't seen a complete game from
      this era replayed and it was a treat. I was stricken by the similarities to
      today's game and thought I'd pass on my observations.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lloyd Davis
      APTN is the Aboriginal Peoples Television Network, and it s one of Canada s four national networks, which means that all Canadian cablesystems are required to
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 1, 2006
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        APTN is the Aboriginal Peoples' Television Network, and it's one of Canada's
        four national networks, which means that all Canadian cablesystems are
        required to carry it. You can often find it at the high end of the analog
        dial (in Toronto, for instance, at Channel 71 on Rogers).

        Like many other cable specialty channels, they stretch the boundaries of
        their mandates. Half the fun of watching a program on APTN is trying to
        figure out the Aboriginal connection. In the case of these hockey
        broadcasts, my best guess is George Armstrong's presence in the Leaf lineup
        is the key.

        (For instance, you'll often see _The Last Waltz_ on APTN, because Robbie
        Robertson of The Band is half-Mohawk. And for a while, they were showing
        re-runs of the long-running CBC series _The Beachcombers_.)

        Regarding defencemen taking face-offs in the defensive zone, Bob Baun
        suggested that there were a couple of reasons. First of all, if the
        defending team lost the draw, the defenceman would interfere with the
        attacking centre. It wasn't until 1964-65 that body contact during face-offs
        was banned.

        Flip that logic around and apply it to the defending team winning the draw:
        why put your centreman in the face-off circle if he's just going to get tied
        up? Why not have him in open ice, ready to receive the puck and carry it up
        ice? Given the choice of whom you'd rather have in the circle, wrestling
        with Jean Beliveau, wouldn't you pick Bob Baun or Allan Stanley over Dave
        Keon?


        on 8/1/06 12:19 AM, goaliedave at goaliedave@... wrote:

        > Hi all, they showed Game 6 of the 1964 Stanley Cup Final on something called
        > "APTN Stanley Cup Classics" Saturday night while I was vacationing just north
        > of Barrie Ontario, channel 40. It looks like a Saturday night series as they
        > are showing the 1967 Final game 7 next Sat Aug 5 at 9pm... if any of you can
        > locate it on your TV systems.

        --
        Lloyd Davis Communications
        304-115 Danforth Ave., Toronto, ON M4K 1N2
        416 465 6999 /// 416 462 0230 (fax)
        ldavis@...
      • goaliedave
        Thanks Jason and Lloyd... too bad I refuse to pay a nickel for TV as that game was almost enough to make me turn in my rabbit ears. I get 10 TV stations that
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 1, 2006
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          Thanks Jason and Lloyd... too bad I refuse to pay a nickel for TV as that game was almost enough to make me turn in my rabbit ears. I get 10 TV stations that send "pictures floating thru the air" into the Whitby sky and unfortunately APTN isn't one of them. I wonder how long I have until digital takes over and puts an end to my rabbit ears?

          In one of Ross Brewitt's 'old-timer interview collection' books, he shares a conversation he had with Bobby Hull and a few others about the differences between the game of his day and the game of his son Brett. Brewitt tried to say that today's game was faster, the coaching better, the players bigger... and to each assertion Hull said hogwash (or something more colourful). After watching that game I have to side with Hull now. The game from 1964 seemed to revolve around the forwards. There was no interference, no stickwork in the corners or in front of the net, no defensive systems strangling the natural offensive beauty of the game. The current NHL has made baby steps back to that, but I would love to see today's stars be able to wheel around the ice like 1964. Forget the tinkering with the goalie equipment, just keep getting rid of the interference.

          Lloyd...you mention the defense... what you say makes sense. It was really intriguing... and it seemed to work great with Gadsby. Also I had an email that I think was intended for the whole group so I'll copy it here...

          Dave in Whitby


          I printed it so I can keep it handy for my own research
          for oral history of the original six era. With regards to Gadsby taking
          face-offs, it must have been more common to that era. In a book about
          the 67 Leafs, Punch Imlach kept using his defensemen to take face-offs
          even they were losing them most of the time.

          Your theory as to why is intriguing and I respect the logic of it.

          Does anyone know whether other coaches of that era were more likely to
          use defensemen in face-off situations? Was Doug Harvey used for face-
          offs?

          What about Orr?

          What about Kelly when he was a defenseman for the Wings?

          Matt


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Swanrvr80@aol.com
          Thanks for posting this, Dave. Does anyone know if there is a post or list published somewhere for all the old (say, pre-1974) that have aired on Canadian
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 2, 2006
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            Thanks for posting this, Dave.

            Does anyone know if there is a post or list published somewhere for all the "old" (say, pre-1974) that have aired on Canadian Television over the last ten or even 20 years? I'm curious as to what's available. For example, I've seen games between the Rangers and Toronto in the '71 playoffs but I've never seen any between the Rangers and Montreal from '72.

            If they've aired certain games then they might air them again or someone may have taped them. Thanks.

            Jay in Milford


            -----Original Message-----
            From: goaliedave@...
            To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 12:19 AM
            Subject: [hockhist] 1964 Stanley Cup game 6 Toronto Detroit on TV


            Hi all, they showed Game 6 of the 1964 Stanley Cup Final on something called "APTN Stanley Cup Classics" Saturday night while I was vacationing just north of Barrie Ontario, channel 40. It looks like a Saturday night series as they are showing the 1967 Final game 7 next Sat Aug 5 at 9pm... if any of you can locate it on your TV systems. I haven't seen a complete game from this era replayed and it was a treat. I was stricken by the similarities to today's game and thought I'd pass on my observations. I apologize in advance for the length of the post.

            Some of the things I had expected... white boards, few helmets (only Red Kelly and Billy Harris), Sawchuck with the mask and Bower without, forwards skating through the D like a knife thru butter, and long shifts. One strange sight was no wall between the player's bench and the fans.

            Bill Gadsby (D) took most of the face-offs in the defensive zone ... something you never see today... I wonder what the reason was?

            Here is my long winded game summary and observations on the differences in goaltending styles.

            The thing that stood out in the first period was that there was no chippy play or stickwork - none. This meant the D relied on poke checks, hook checks (been a while since I saw one of those), and good timing to intercept rushes. Coupled with the lack of backchecking by the forwards, the action, skating, and passing were at least equal to today's game and the excitement level was higher. There was very little dump and chase, and only 2 or 3 times the D stood a guy up at the blue line; mostly it was end to end action.

            The goaltending was terrible. I know these 2 were among the very best, but if any part of the game is better today it is clearly the goalies. The announcers remarked several times about remarkable saves which were routine by today's standards. Sawchuck was his diving best, sprawling in the opening 10 seconds to rob Allan Stanley. Both goalies spent all game back on the goal line fighting to get a body part in front of the puck. Rebound control was terrible. Bower stood straight up the whole time, even on rebounds. I remember learning to play as a young goalie in 1964 but it is hilarious to see how it looks given what we know today.

            The first intermission had Ward Cornell interviewing Stan Mikita about the game. They both had awesome insights, much more enjoyable than what we get these days. Mikita profoundly predicts that the play is wide open and the goal floodgates will open in period 2. This was followed by a guy named Ed describing the goal and then showing a replay. Next Frank Selke Jr. interviewed Foster Hewitt. Finally, Ward Cornell returned with Harry Howell and Jerry Toppazini - the main question being, who was the strongest NHL players in the corners? The top 3 in order were Hull, Howe and Horton. They both mentioned that Hull just held out his arms to keep players away and there was nothing you could do to get in to the puck. (These days the stick is used so much for leverage and as a weapon in these situations). Toppazini also gave a funny account of a fight he had with Bobby Hull, getting killed then having to go sit in the penalty box separated by a cop.

            2nd period: Henderson scored a beauty at 4:20. Gadsby won the face-off in his own zone with Henderson taking off like a bullet as the puck dropped, he got in behind the Leaf D of Baun and Brewer and took a perfect pass from Pit Martin at centre with 4 Leafs chasing him, putting the puck up over Bower's glove.

            Keon was all over the ice, double shifting, and the major force in the game. They mentioned Al Langlois was the biggest guy on the ice at 205lbs.

            2-1 Detroit as MacMillan (#12) came around the net with the puck to Bower's glove side, curled in at the face-off circle with Bower reaching his stick out to prevent the pass in front. Bower is hugging the post with his catching glove turned backwards, standing on the goalline straight up. MacMillan fires a pass in the slot to Pit Martin (#8) who tips it in before Bower can react. Nowadays the goalie would have out of the crease on his knees as MacMillan curled and fired, and then shuffled over to the middle to make a routine stop.

            2-2 Pulford on a similar goal to the previous one, except to the right this time, Stewart took it, curled and fired a quick pass to Pulford standing tot he left of Sawchuck. The move Sawchuck made took me waaay back to how we were taught in those days. As Sawchuck followed the pass across to his left (glove side) his right leg stayed planted, and he turned his left skate sideways and pushed off, stretching it towards the post. The goalstick stays flat on its blade and tight to the skate, the idea being to stretch over quickly and stop the expected low one-timer with the stick. This motion necessarily makes you fall backward, with the glove hand flailing and hoping to get lucky and catch a high shot. Honestly, you would have to watch a lot of old hockey games to see even one of those shots saved, I don't know why they taught us that way, it is simply too slow to get there before the puck. Today of course the goalies push off totally differently, using the opposite leg, with a shuffle then slide motion onto their knees covering everything except the top corner.

            3-2 Howe backhands one thru Bower after Horton is blatantly tripped at the blueline by a sly Delvecchio moving across the blueline out of the play so that the ref didn't see him. Bower just stood there straight up without moving.

            The goalies play most of the shots with their stick, especially clearing any rebounds into the corner. We were taught to always keep the puck in play, it doesn't seem so odd given that this use of the stick had been common since the turn of the century. Now that we are forty years along from this game, it seems that 1964 is easily grouped with the turn of the century play. These days goalies trap all loose pucks as the forwards are in the crease jamming everything with their sticks. Back in 1964 no one every went near the crease ... I didn't see one stick from an opponent anywhere near a goalie clearing a rebound into the corner.

            3-3 Billy Harris in the slot takes a beauty pass from Armstrong after the puck kicked out from he corner on a bad pass.

            2nd intermission followed the same script. Cornell with Mikita - Mikita says goals are due to forwards aren't coming back with their man, especially Detroit. Ed with the goal highlights. Frank Selke Jr interviews Milt Schmidt. Schmidt says Detroit is known for those long breakout passes that Henderson scored on. He also says Detroit is being too cautious thinking they have the Cup in the bag up 3-2 in games. Cornell then interviews Boom Boom Geoffrion who says if rumours are true that he will be traded from Montreal, if would be hard but he would go as he is a pro.

            3rd period resumes with Bill Hewitt on the play by play and "Steve Dancy (?) with me tonight from HNIC Montreal crew. Hewitt apologizes for late / incomplete goal and penalty calls, as he can't hear the rink announcer and his view of the clock is blocked so that he can only see the ice !

            Early on Sawchuck makes the mirror image of the awkward skate slide move from the Pulford goal. From the standup stance, he turns his right skate blade sideways, slides it towards the far post with his stick 'glued to it', falling backward with the blocker hand moving toward the post hoping to block a high shot. I did that move hundreds of times and all you can do is hope that the forward rushes the shot. We goalies used to do a lot of praying in those days.

            Hewitt remarks that the smog in the arena now has descended near ice level, he can see a blue green haze. He doesn't say, but I assume it is from the accumulation of cigarette smoke during the game.

            Finally I get to see a classic Bower pokecheck, a thing of beauty. Soon after McGregor rings one off the post that could have won it for Detroit. Hewitt ways Detroit is desperate for Pit Martin's young legs, but he's been in the box with a misconduct.

            I notice that there is no close checking. The guys always pull up and circle 6 feet from the puck carrier, stretching with their leg and stick to try to intercept a predicted pass. I guess it just never occurred to them to go right at a guy, as it surely would have been called for interference in those says. Even the few decent hits at the blue line were called for penalties this game.

            13:15 Baun goes down hard on 1 leg away from the play, no one it, the announcers speculate he caught a skate in a rut. As the stretcher makes its way, Baun combs his hair out of his face. Definitely not in any pain.

            16:30 Delvecchio cuts thru centre "a la Lindros", makes a left to right deke that puts him in prime "lindros hit" vulnerability, but Kelly angles him off rather than crush him. Baun returns to the ice for his regular shifts.

            The period ends and the OT intermission follows the same script again.Cornell with Mikita. Selke this time has Ted Lindsay, they talk about the 1950 Pete Babando goal. Foster Hewitt had called it his favourite game, Lindsay recalled how the Rangers were playing their home games in Toronto. Cornell brings all 3 guys back this time - Howell, Toppazini, and Geoffrion in a long panel discussion. They talk about how in Detroit it is tough for the visitors to change lines as the benches are so far into the corners. Toppazini comes up with a proposed rule change for fights... just let the fights go to the end until one guy gets beaten. He figures fights are broken up too early and guys count on that protection ... so by removing it, guys would be less apt to fight.

            1:43 of OT and Baun puts one in from the right point. It bounces in front taking a crazy hop past Sawchuck. Langlois had rifled it around the boards but not past Baun... he had lots of time, too bad he didn't put it up the middle again to a streaking forward.

            Post game interview, Mikita picks Baun as first star. Baun confirms the shot took a crazy hop in front. Baun says he's in no pain, just had the leg frozen and he expects it's an injury that is common, a pinched nerve "similar to what Sawchuck had" and that he'll be fine tomorrow.

            Broadcast fades away showing George Retzleff (?) as producer.

            Summary:
            - the 1964 game is more exciting than the 2006 game
            - the 1964 broadcast was better than the 2006 version
            - the goalies in 1964 were terrible
            - I have seen it with my own eyes now, the big legend of Baun scoring his goal on a "broken leg" is hogwash. Turns out all he had was a small fracture of his ankle bone, something players play through all the time these days.

            Hope that brought back some memories for some.

            Dave in Whitby

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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          • zpmboca@aol.com
            In a message dated 8/1/2006 12:18:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, goaliedave@sympatico.ca writes: Hi all, they showed Game 6 of the 1964 Stanley Cup Final on
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 9, 2006
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              In a message dated 8/1/2006 12:18:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
              goaliedave@... writes:


              Hi all, they showed Game 6 of the 1964 Stanley Cup Final on something called
              "APTN Stanley Cup Classics" Saturday night while I was vacationing just north
              of Barrie Ontario, channel 40. It looks like a Saturday night series as they
              are showing the 1967 Final game 7 next Sat Aug 5 at 9pm... if any of you can
              locate it on your TV systems. I haven't seen a complete game from this era
              replayed and it was a treat. >>

              I've been on vacation and just caught this today. Very interesting summary of
              your observations on this highly dramatic and pivotal game. Just a few
              comments since others have already said a lot:

              The game has been televised a number of times in the US on ESPN Classic.
              Other games from the era are also pretty available. I have a number of them.

              Some of the things I had expected... white boards, few helmets (only Red
              Kelly and Billy Harris), Sawchuck with the mask and Bower without, forwards
              skating through the D like a knife thru butter, and long shifts. One strange sight
              was no wall between the player's bench and the fans.>>>

              Along these lines, I was always amazed in the 50s and 60s to notice that
              players who had just had a serious fight went to the penalty box separated by
              virtually no one except maybe an elderly arena staff member. They used to yell at
              each other and make threatening gestures throughout the penalty time.

              Coupled with the lack of backchecking by the forwards, the action, skating,
              and passing were at least equal to today's game and the excitement level was
              higher. There was very little dump and chase, and only 2 or 3 times the D stood
              a guy up at the blue line; mostly it was end to end action.>>>

              No question about all of the above. It may be noted also that these teams
              faced each other 14 times a year under the format then in use. Plenty of time to
              build up hostilities and rivalries even before the playoff series. And my
              recollection is the early 60s Cup winner players each got $2,000, while the losers
              each got $1,000. No million dollar contracts then, so players took winning
              and losing very seriously. It all helped contribute to the drama.


              The goaltending was terrible. I know these 2 were among the very best, but if
              any part of the game is better today it is clearly the goalies. The
              announcers remarked several times about remarkable saves which were routine by today's
              standards. Sawchuck was his diving best, sprawling in the opening 10 seconds
              to rob Allan Stanley. Both goalies spent all game back on the goal line
              fighting to get a body part in front of the puck. Rebound control was terrible.>>>>

              I've never played goal and defer to your expertise. The Howe goal against
              Bower was awful indeed. But Bower backstopped the Leafs to 3 consecutive Cups
              when in his late 30s and this one play and game were not representative of his
              skill level. Rather interestingly, he did not even become the Leafs regular
              neminder till he was in his mid-30s. There were basically just 6 goalie jobs back
              then in the NHL. The guys who made it at all had to be very, very good in
              general.

              3-2 Howe backhands one thru Bower after Horton is blatantly tripped at the
              blueline by a sly Delvecchio moving across the blueline out of the play so that
              the ref didn't see him. >>>

              Interesting. I haven't seen the game in a number of years and will check it
              to see this. And to think old Alex was a multiple Lady Byng winner!

              He also says Detroit is being too cautious thinking they have the Cup in the
              bag up 3-2 in games. <<<<

              He was right. But the bottom line is the Wings relied for their offense too
              much on Howe, Ullman, and Delvecchio. Martin and Henderson were still very
              young and inexperienced despite their G6 contributions. Over the course of a
              7-game series, the Leafs' superiority became clearer. Bathgate was added to the
              Leafs roster Feb. 22, 1964 and scored a couple of game winners in G4 and G7. The
              one in G4 was a real backbreaker. Hard to say who would've won if Bathgate
              hadn't been around.


              Hewitt remarks that the smog in the arena now has descended near ice level,
              he can see a blue green haze. He doesn't say, but I assume it is from the
              accumulation of cigarette smoke during the game. >>

              Probably. I attended dozens of games in that era at the old Madison Square
              Garden and remember leaving the arena with my shirt reeking of cigarettes.

              Finally I get to see a classic Bower pokecheck, a thing of beauty. <<<

              Definitely. In a telecast on Leafs TV some years ago, Joe Bowen interviewed
              Bower about this specialty of his, and it was quite informative.

              Lindsay recalled how the Rangers were playing their home games in Toronto. >>>


              For those of you who are wondering, the Rangers were evicted from the Garden
              in 1950 because of conflicting dates with the annual circus. Hockey just had
              no influence in those days. Again, one has to wonder if the Rangers could've
              won the '50 Cup if they had played in NY. They lost in double OT of the 7th
              game.

              1:43 of OT and Baun puts one in from the right point. It bounces in front
              taking a crazy hop past Sawchuck. Langlois had rifled it around the boards but
              not past Baun... he had lots of time, too bad he didn't put it up the middle
              again to a streaking forward.>>>

              Very unfortunate play for the Wings, who needed another 33 years to win the
              Cup after this painful near miss. I understand it bothers Langlois to this day
              though he won Cups while on the Habs.

              Baun says he's in no pain, just had the leg frozen and he expects it's an
              injury that is common, a pinched nerve "similar to what Sawchuck had" and that
              he'll be fine tomorrow.>>

              Thanks for clarifying this. I always used to wonder about it.

              Hope that brought back some memories for some.>>

              Indeed. Thanks for the post.

              Z. Peter Mitchell


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            • Morey Holzman
              I ve taped some of the old games and have similar observations about the goalies, and then I started rewatching the 74 series with Bernie Parent. As a kid, I
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 10, 2006
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                I've taped some of the old games and have similar observations about
                the goalies, and then I started rewatching the 74 series with Bernie
                Parent.

                As a kid, I remember Parent standing on his head. Today, those
                saves are at best ordinary, and a couple of the goals are a tad
                cheesy. What has changed?

                For starters, defnesive play has improved. Defensemen used to
                screen their goalies like crazy. Guy Lapointe mastered and others
                copied the art of playing angles so that the shooter would have a
                smaller net to shoot at.

                Secondly, goalies were all stand-up or floppers. On a stand-up
                goalie shoot it low, on floppers shoot it high. With the advent of
                the butterfly approach, and then the hybrid approach of butterfly
                and stand-up and angles, the game's true snipers just couldn't pick
                a spot. The Quebec League goalies have the reputation for this,
                although J.S. Giguere is a stand-up guy in the traditional sense. I
                remember a story about Phil Esposito in the 70s. Espo was talking
                to a reporter on the ice and to show off, he took a slap shot from
                center ice. The puck curved and went through a six-inch slot
                between the doors where the Zamboni entered, which were open.
                That's markmanship. But if "picking your spots" is no longer an
                option for the sniper, you need a new skill set to think AND shoot
                at the same time.

                Thirdly, when I was a kid and attended hockey school as a goalie in
                1976 as a 12-year-old, kids' goalie pads weighed about 30 pounds,
                and that was dry. NHL pads, with sweat on them, must have been
                closer to 45. Since the new materials were introduced in the late
                80s, early 90s, the weight has dropped to about 15 pounds. Carrying
                less weight means greater manouverability. Add to the increase in
                skill and what would be a bad goal by Johnny Bower in the six-team
                NHL is a one-way ticket to Kentucky or some ECHL town in the
                expanded 30-team NHL.

                Morey
                > The goaltending was terrible. I know these 2 were among the very
                best, but if
                > any part of the game is better today it is clearly the goalies.
                The
                > announcers remarked several times about remarkable saves which
                were routine by today's
                > standards. Sawchuck was his diving best, sprawling in the opening
                10 seconds
                > to rob Allan Stanley. Both goalies spent all game back on the goal
                line
                > fighting to get a body part in front of the puck. Rebound control
                was terrible.>>>>
                >
                > I've never played goal and defer to your expertise. The Howe goal
                against
                > Bower was awful indeed. But Bower backstopped the Leafs to 3
                consecutive Cups
                > when in his late 30s and this one play and game were not
                representative of his
                > skill level. Rather interestingly, he did not even become the
                Leafs regular
                > neminder till he was in his mid-30s. There were basically just 6
                goalie jobs back
                > then in the NHL. The guys who made it at all had to be very, very
                good in
                > general.
              • Lloyd Davis
                Seems to me there were a lot of lousy shots in those days, too. For all of their acrobatics and histrionics, a Bower or a Worsley stopped a hell of a lot of
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 10, 2006
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                  Seems to me there were a lot of lousy shots in those days, too. For all of
                  their acrobatics and histrionics, a Bower or a Worsley stopped a hell of a
                  lot of pucks. In the sixth game of the '64 finals, Toronto outshot Detroit
                  41-34. The final score was 4-3. Even in a game where the goalies strike us
                  as not being terribly adept, they both managed a .900 save percentage.
                  Rebounds weren't as big a deal, because forwards didn't go in for second or
                  third efforts the way they do now.

                  They were playing a different game.

                  A host on the local all-sports station is carping about the way starting
                  pitchers are "babied" in baseball today. Why can't the complete 28 games,
                  like Rick Langford did in 1980? (Well, because Rick Langford was washed up,
                  at 32, by 1983. If you don't remember the sins of Billyball, it's a good
                  thing you're not managing a major-league pitching staff.)

                  Yeah, I remember a lot of 300-inning seasons. I also remember a lot of
                  batters who swung at anything (it was either Alfredo Griffin or Damaso
                  Garcia who said, "If I wanted to walk, I'd get a job as a mailman."). I
                  remember a lot of shortstops and second basemen who hit .220. I remember
                  .260 hitters with .300 on-base percentages playing in the all-star game. And
                  I remember one guy who could throw the ball 100 miles an hour, with a whole
                  lot of guys getting by on a 65 mph change-up and an emery board.

                  I also remember guys like Stieb throwing arm-busting sliders that probably
                  shaved a couple of really productive years off their careers.

                  Enough of this diversion. The point is the same: you play the game that your
                  era demands. Jaromir Jagr would make mincemeat out of Sawchuk, Bower,
                  Worsley, et al. But then again, a player of Jagr's ilk didn't exist in the
                  NHL in 1964 or 1967. Jagr's counterpart was a guy who played a bit of
                  softball and did a bit of fishin' or huntin' in the off-season when he
                  wasn't selling cars or insurance.

                  He probably smoked a couple packs a day and, like Gump, had a fondness for
                  rye whiskey. He played himself into shape in September and October -- and if
                  he played for Punch Imlach, he spent those months on the sidelines every
                  second or third year because he and the team were $200 apart on the new
                  contract.

                  Context is key. Check out an old NBA game if you get a chance, and it's
                  laughable. From the belted shorts and the Chuck Taylor sneakers to the lousy
                  shots and the utter lack of jumping, it's hard to believe this is the same
                  game that Magic and Bird and Michael were playing.

                  on 8/10/06 12:24 PM, Morey Holzman at epenaltybox@... wrote:

                  > Secondly, goalies were all stand-up or floppers. On a stand-up
                  > goalie shoot it low, on floppers shoot it high.

                  --
                  Lloyd Davis Communications
                  304-115 Danforth Ave., Toronto, ON M4K 1N2
                  416 465 6999 /// 416 462 0230 (fax)
                  ldavis@...
                • goaliedave
                  Peter... when you watch that Delvecchio trip they show it a few times and I believe Hewitt mentions that Horton is yelling at the ref about it and Hewitt seems
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 10, 2006
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                    Peter... when you watch that Delvecchio trip they show it a few times and I believe Hewitt mentions that Horton is yelling at the ref about it and Hewitt seems to agree with him. I believe Alex was ahead of Howe in the zone, then moved quickly left to right out of the zone, which is a strange play unless you intend on tripping Horton. I'll be interested to read your take on it.

                    I look forward to seeing more of those 60s games.

                    Dave in Whitby

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Doug Norris
                    Hello, all! If this is the silliest question you read all day, then I m glad to have presented it. Does anyone have a listing/reference (online, preferably)
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 19, 2006
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                      Hello, all! If this is the silliest question you read all day, then I'm
                      glad to have presented it.

                      Does anyone have a listing/reference (online, preferably) of numbers
                      worn by players in the Olympic tournament?

                      Today, I'm looking for the sweater numbers for the 1988 United States
                      goaltenders. Mike Richter wore #1, yes? How about Chris Terreri and
                      John Blue?

                      Best regards,
                      Doug
                      http://hockeygoalies.org
                    • nieforth
                      Chris Terreri #31 John Blue #29 Joseph
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 19, 2006
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                        Chris Terreri #31
                        John Blue #29

                        Joseph
                      • Doug Norris
                        Joseph, you re the best - thanks again! Best regards, Doug http://hockeygoalies.org
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 19, 2006
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                          Joseph, you're the best - thanks again!

                          Best regards,
                          Doug
                          http://hockeygoalies.org
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