Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [hockhist] Re: Broad St. Bullies, the bane of hockey

Expand Messages
  • Craig
    Jim, I can t say it was any worse or any better then those incidents you mentioned with one exception. What Schultz did was part of the way the Flyers played.
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 1, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Jim,

      I can't say it was any worse or any better then those incidents you
      mentioned with one exception. What Schultz did was part of the way the
      Flyers played. They delighted in cheating (as in breaking the rules) and
      hurting people. No one would argue that the Canucks or Bruins used
      premeditated violence as part of their overall strategy. They were lack a
      pack of wolves who attacked at the slighest provocation or excuse (usually
      created by themselves). No NHL team before or since played like that.

      That web site I attached a link to is not mine by the way. I came across it
      while looking for information on the Schultz/Rolfe incident.

      Now did the Flyers wreck hockey? As I said earlier that is hard to say. The
      NHL is still operating so in one sense no they didn't. But the writer of the
      post which I posted made some good points about TV contracts and such. The
      fact that the NHL did have network TV contracts up to then and really has
      struggled since then. I know from personal experience, that the image of
      hockey in much of the US is disastrous. I work for a US based firm and when
      I am in the US and talk about sports to my colleagues most laugh at hockey
      and don't take it seriously as a legitimate sport. The reason for that is
      fighting. Many view it as the WWE on skates. Is that fair or accurate? No it
      isn't. But perception become reality. I am sure many people walked away from
      baseball after the Black Sox scandal - even after baseball took such strong
      measures to deal with the players. We'll never know how many fans hockey
      lost due to the Flyers.

      Craig



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Jim Dornberger" <jpdornberger@...>
      To: <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:42 PM
      Subject: [hockhist] Re: Broad St. Bullies, the bane of hockey


      > Craig,
      >
      > I pointed out that Schultz attack on Rolfe was indefensible. But
      > what exactly makes it worse than Eddie Shore's, Marty McSorley's &
      > Todd Bertuzzi's which were 30 years before AND after. As to the
      > Flyers ruining the sport, it was you who quoted, and therefore we
      > assume you endorse, the long diatribe that someone wrote on your
      > website that did say this:
      >
      > "No one person, just as no one team has been the catalyst for the
      > demise of any sport in recent history. Even the 1919 Black Sox
      > couldnt kill the National Pastime. It was down but not out. Just as
      > the likes of Sosa, McGuire and Palmeiro may give it a large and shiny
      > but temporary black eye; they cant knock out baseball.
      >
      > However, the Philadelphia Flyers of the 1970s may have come closest."
      >
      > I don't think that one 5 year period in the early 70s is what current
      > fans and non-fans are concentrating on when they do or don't watch
      > today's game.
      >
      > Jim
      >
      >
      > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Craig" <argonauts25@s...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Jim,
      >>
      >> Just a couple of points.
      >>
      >> 1. In so far as the Rolfe/Schultz "fight" while you are correct in
      > that
      >> Rolfe did play again I'd suggest you watch a tape of the incident
      > (game 7 is
      >> available on video tape - I own it.) This was not a normal (if
      > there is such
      >> a thing) hockey fight. This was a mugging pure and simple. Schultz
      > (who
      >> started the fight) not only drove his fist with great force into
      > Rolfe's
      >> face numerous times, he grabbed Rolfe's hair and hung onto that
      > while he
      >> pummelled him. Schultz was doing his very best to commit bodily
      > harm to a
      >> player who certainly was not well known for his fighting prowess.
      > In the
      >> "real world" Dave would have faced charges. In the somewhat bizarre
      > world of
      >> the NHL many considered him a hero.
      >>
      >> Now did this turn out well for the Flyers? It sure did. Think of
      > this.
      >> Nobody from the Rangers jumped into the fight and so there was a
      > perception
      >> that the Schultz assault or attack (let us use the correct
      > terminology here
      >> please) "cowed" the Rangers. However what if a Ranger did jump in?
      > The other
      >> players on the ice at the time were Brad Park, Ed Giacomin, and I
      > believe
      >> the GAG line of Jean Ratelle, Rod Gilbert, and Vic Hadfield. If one
      > of those
      >> players get's involved the Flyers still win as the Rangers lose an
      > all star
      >> in the most important game of the year. If Schultz get's thrown out
      > who
      >> cares? The guy couldn't play and they still had other mouth
      > breathing,
      >> knuckle dragging baboons like Bob Kelly, Ed Van Impe, Don Saleski,
      > and Andre
      >> Dupont among others they could throw out there as cannon fodder.
      > Let me say
      >> something else hear. If any the Flyers who were on the ice at that
      > time had
      >> even an iota of class or ethics, one of them would have pulled
      > Schultz off
      >> an obviously endangered Rolfe. Instead you see smirks on several of
      > their
      >> faces. Shows the level of human decency they possesed. But I guess
      > that is
      >> okay. Commit a criminal act by beating up a helpless person as long
      > as it
      >> helps you line your pockets with playoff money.
      >>
      >> 2. Watch game 3 of that series (also available on video tape) and
      > watch how
      >> the Flyers fared when there was a referee handling the game
      > who...gasp...
      >> actually enforced the rule book to the letter. Brian Lewis called
      > everything
      >> the Flyers did in that game and that allowed the Rangers to skate.
      > When that
      >> happened it was very clear the Flyers could not compete. Rod
      > Gilbert, Steve
      >> Vickers, Brad Park, Walter Tkaczuk, etc skated circles around the
      > befuddled
      >> Flyers. So much for Shero's great system! It relied on the fact
      > that most
      >> NHL referees would only call so many penalties against them. If you
      > got
      >> somebody like a Bruce Hood or Brian Lewis who would actually
      > enforce the
      >> rule book they were sunk.
      >>
      >> The Flyers were not without talent. Rick MacLeish, Bobby Clarke,
      > Bill
      >> Barber, Bernie Parent, Jimmy Watson, and Reg Leach were outstanding
      > hockey
      >> players. But this was not a true championship calibre team if (and
      > this is a
      >> big if in the world of the NHL) the rule book was actually
      > enforced. There
      >> were other tough teams in the past. Teams like the late 60's Boston
      > Bruins
      >> or as was mentioned the St. Louis Blues of the late 60's. But the
      > difference
      >> between them and the Flyers was the tough guys on those teams could
      > play.
      >> The Plagers while not stars had long NHL careers and were very
      > capable
      >> defensemen. Derek Sanderson, John McKenzie, Ted Green, etc of
      > Boston were
      >> fine players who were also tough. Take fighting out of the game and
      > these
      >> guys are still in the league. The Flyers though became the first
      > team to win
      >> through brutal violence using players like Dave Schultz who clearly
      > lacked
      >> the talent to be a legitimate NHL player.
      >>
      >> Did they wreck the NHL? I don't know about that. They were a good
      > draw
      >> (however so is a plane crash - people are drawn to morbid things)
      > so in the
      >> short term they didn't seem to hurt thing. But in that era how many
      > teams
      >> failed and either had to move or folded? And (and we can never be
      > sure of
      >> this) how many fans simply walked away from the game due to the
      > violece and
      >> didn't let their kids get invol;ved in it. More then a few.
      >>
      >> Craig
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> ----- Original Message -----
      >> From: "Jim Dornberger" <jpdornberger@c...>
      >> To: <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
      >> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:40 PM
      >> Subject: [hockhist] Re: Broad St. Bullies, the bane of hockey
      >>
      >>
      >> Dave,
      >>
      >> I wrote my defense of the Flyers because of the original "The Flyers
      >> Impact on Hockey" thread by Craig who quoted this other idio.
      >> gentleman who postulated that the 74-75 Flyers were nearly the
      >> ruination of hockey. Craig also decried the beating that Dale Rolfe
      >> took at the hands of Dave Schultz in the playoffs (I was 8 rows
      >> behind Eddie Giacomin in the 1st & 3rd for that one). Clearly,
      >> though indefensible, it is not better or worse than incidents before
      >> and after that one. Rolfe did play again, unlike Steve Moore and
      >> others who have taken beatings in the game (how about all the facial
      >> surgeries that Lou Fontanato endured after being pummeled by Gordie
      >> Howe, or "Mr. Old Tyme Hockey, Eddie Shore ending Ace Baileys career
      >> with a stick over the head that damn near killed him and requiring
      >> brain surgery).
      >>
      >> I am also replying to JP Martel who said:
      >>
      >> > NHL Franchise Records 1926-04
      >> >
      >> > Team GP W L T OTL Pts %
      >> > Montreal Canadiens 5352 2751 1742 831 32 .595
      >> > Philadelphia 2965 1488 999 457 24 .583
      >>
      >> "Jim, nobody ever said that the tactics used by the Flyers in the
      >> 1970s didn't work. The argument is that they nearly killed hockey."
      >>
      >> and
      >>
      >> "This other guy had never watched a single hockey game in his life,
      >> even though he was usually interested in sports. When I asked him
      > how
      >> come he'd never even tried it once, he answered: "Well, hockey, it's
      >> like roller derby on skates, right?" And that's what he honestly
      >> believed."
      >>
      >> My point is that the Flyers did not invent the violence inherent in
      >> hockey it was there before and it exists today (notwithstanding the
      >> current rules changes and teams not wanting addition PIMs for
      >> fighting). My other point is that they are the 2nd winningest team
      >> ever and they did most of it on skill - they only did the goon stuff
      >> for about 5 years - but there reputation seems cast in stone.
      >>
      >> The thing is that the franchise is known for that because that's
      > what
      >> put it on the map. Also, the collective conscience of non-fans only
      >> knows hockey when it was in Time or Newsweek (as the Flyers did in
      >> the 70s) or the evening news for stuff like what Mart McSorley or
      >> Todd Bertuzzi did. To blame the leagues' reputation with non-fans
      > on
      >> the Flyers ignores over 100 years of brutal violence that has been
      >> part of the sport.
      >>
      >> Jim
      >>
      >> By the way they were designed to "goon first" Parent, Clarke,
      > Barber,
      >> MacLeish, Flett were all on the team prior to Schultz, Saleski and
      >> Dupont.
      >>
      >> I don't know what people mean by "they were allowed to get away with
      >> it". They rung more penalty minutes than any other team -- what did
      >> they get away with?
      >>
      >> --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "goaliedave" <goaliedave@s...>
      > wrote:
      >> >
      >> > Jim,
      >> >
      >> > I think the main point we are saying is that the idea of a team
      >> designed
      >> > "goon first", that was tolerated by the league to put caual USA
      >> fans in the
      >> > seats at any cost, with an easy ride through the playoffs... was
      >> more a
      >> > speed bump in the history of hockey than a major contributor.
      > True,
      >> after
      >> > Beliveau and Ferguson retired there were a few years while the
      > Habs
      >> retooled
      >> > and other teams got to win a few cups, but surely you can't
      > compare
      >> Philly's
      >> > success to the Habs' prominence in 25 of 30 years in the 50s, 60s,
      >> 70s ?
      >> > (not to mention the Leafs and Wings). I'd put the Flyers Cups with
      >> > Pittsburgh's ... things came together for a couple of years and
      >> great for
      >> > them, but not much impact on the NHL in the long term.
      >> >
      >> > Most fans these days weren't watching back then, and Gretzky is
      >> sort of the
      >> > starting block for the latest generation of the game. The Oilers,
      >> much as I
      >> > hated them, took over the Habs team design using the traditional
      >> policeman
      >> > on a line of great players and rode it to deserved glory. The Habs
      >> > management has fumbled around since the last dynasty, and with the
      >> new NHL
      >> > we see much more even competition, most teams have realized the
      >> goon game is
      >> > gone and the play is back to free flowing. I don't hear many fans
      >> wishing
      >> > for the old clutch and grab, hold and whack, gang up and pound,
      > WHA
      >> talent
      >> > drained, days of the early 70s.
      >> >
      >> > Dave in Whitby
      >> >
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to
      >> hockhist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to
      > hockhist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Jim Dornberger
      Craig, Fighting in hockey is not cheating. Doing more of it than anyone else and still winning is almost counter-intuitive. Despite that fact that the
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 1, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Craig,

        Fighting in hockey is not cheating. Doing more of it than anyone else
        and still winning is almost counter-intuitive. Despite that fact
        that the Schultz-Rolfe incident seems to be indelibly scribed in your
        memory -- it was just another of the numerous example of a fight
        getting out of hand.

        Jim

        By the way the fight that stands the test of time in the mind of
        Philly fans was Simon Nolet throttling John Ferguson on a nationally
        televised game 2 months before the first Cup.


        --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Craig" <argonauts25@s...> wrote:
        >
        > Jim,
        >
        > I can't say it was any worse or any better then those incidents you
        > mentioned with one exception. What Schultz did was part of the way
        the
        > Flyers played. They delighted in cheating (as in breaking the
        rules) and
        > hurting people. No one would argue that the Canucks or Bruins used
        > premeditated violence as part of their overall strategy. They were
        lack a
        > pack of wolves who attacked at the slighest provocation or excuse
        (usually
        > created by themselves). No NHL team before or since played like
        that.
        >
        > That web site I attached a link to is not mine by the way. I came
        across it
        > while looking for information on the Schultz/Rolfe incident.
        >
        > Now did the Flyers wreck hockey? As I said earlier that is hard to
        say. The
        > NHL is still operating so in one sense no they didn't. But the
        writer of the
        > post which I posted made some good points about TV contracts and
        such. The
        > fact that the NHL did have network TV contracts up to then and
        really has
        > struggled since then. I know from personal experience, that the
        image of
        > hockey in much of the US is disastrous. I work for a US based firm
        and when
        > I am in the US and talk about sports to my colleagues most laugh at
        hockey
        > and don't take it seriously as a legitimate sport. The reason for
        that is
        > fighting. Many view it as the WWE on skates. Is that fair or
        accurate? No it
        > isn't. But perception become reality. I am sure many people walked
        away from
        > baseball after the Black Sox scandal - even after baseball took
        such strong
        > measures to deal with the players. We'll never know how many fans
        hockey
        > lost due to the Flyers.
        >
        > Craig
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Jim Dornberger" <jpdornberger@c...>
        > To: <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:42 PM
        > Subject: [hockhist] Re: Broad St. Bullies, the bane of hockey
        >
        >
        > > Craig,
        > >
        > > I pointed out that Schultz attack on Rolfe was indefensible. But
        > > what exactly makes it worse than Eddie Shore's, Marty McSorley's &
        > > Todd Bertuzzi's which were 30 years before AND after. As to the
        > > Flyers ruining the sport, it was you who quoted, and therefore we
        > > assume you endorse, the long diatribe that someone wrote on your
        > > website that did say this:
        > >
        > > "No one person, just as no one team has been the catalyst for the
        > > demise of any sport in recent history. Even the 1919 Black Sox
        > > couldnt kill the National Pastime. It was down but not out. Just
        as
        > > the likes of Sosa, McGuire and Palmeiro may give it a large and
        shiny
        > > but temporary black eye; they cant knock out baseball.
        > >
        > > However, the Philadelphia Flyers of the 1970s may have come
        closest."
        > >
        > > I don't think that one 5 year period in the early 70s is what
        current
        > > fans and non-fans are concentrating on when they do or don't watch
        > > today's game.
        > >
        > > Jim
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Craig" <argonauts25@s...> wrote:
        > >>
        > >> Jim,
        > >>
        > >> Just a couple of points.
        > >>
        > >> 1. In so far as the Rolfe/Schultz "fight" while you are correct
        in
        > > that
        > >> Rolfe did play again I'd suggest you watch a tape of the incident
        > > (game 7 is
        > >> available on video tape - I own it.) This was not a normal (if
        > > there is such
        > >> a thing) hockey fight. This was a mugging pure and simple.
        Schultz
        > > (who
        > >> started the fight) not only drove his fist with great force into
        > > Rolfe's
        > >> face numerous times, he grabbed Rolfe's hair and hung onto that
        > > while he
        > >> pummelled him. Schultz was doing his very best to commit bodily
        > > harm to a
        > >> player who certainly was not well known for his fighting prowess.
        > > In the
        > >> "real world" Dave would have faced charges. In the somewhat
        bizarre
        > > world of
        > >> the NHL many considered him a hero.
        > >>
        > >> Now did this turn out well for the Flyers? It sure did. Think of
        > > this.
        > >> Nobody from the Rangers jumped into the fight and so there was a
        > > perception
        > >> that the Schultz assault or attack (let us use the correct
        > > terminology here
        > >> please) "cowed" the Rangers. However what if a Ranger did jump
        in?
        > > The other
        > >> players on the ice at the time were Brad Park, Ed Giacomin, and I
        > > believe
        > >> the GAG line of Jean Ratelle, Rod Gilbert, and Vic Hadfield. If
        one
        > > of those
        > >> players get's involved the Flyers still win as the Rangers lose
        an
        > > all star
        > >> in the most important game of the year. If Schultz get's thrown
        out
        > > who
        > >> cares? The guy couldn't play and they still had other mouth
        > > breathing,
        > >> knuckle dragging baboons like Bob Kelly, Ed Van Impe, Don
        Saleski,
        > > and Andre
        > >> Dupont among others they could throw out there as cannon fodder.
        > > Let me say
        > >> something else hear. If any the Flyers who were on the ice at
        that
        > > time had
        > >> even an iota of class or ethics, one of them would have pulled
        > > Schultz off
        > >> an obviously endangered Rolfe. Instead you see smirks on several
        of
        > > their
        > >> faces. Shows the level of human decency they possesed. But I
        guess
        > > that is
        > >> okay. Commit a criminal act by beating up a helpless person as
        long
        > > as it
        > >> helps you line your pockets with playoff money.
        > >>
        > >> 2. Watch game 3 of that series (also available on video tape) and
        > > watch how
        > >> the Flyers fared when there was a referee handling the game
        > > who...gasp...
        > >> actually enforced the rule book to the letter. Brian Lewis called
        > > everything
        > >> the Flyers did in that game and that allowed the Rangers to
        skate.
        > > When that
        > >> happened it was very clear the Flyers could not compete. Rod
        > > Gilbert, Steve
        > >> Vickers, Brad Park, Walter Tkaczuk, etc skated circles around the
        > > befuddled
        > >> Flyers. So much for Shero's great system! It relied on the fact
        > > that most
        > >> NHL referees would only call so many penalties against them. If
        you
        > > got
        > >> somebody like a Bruce Hood or Brian Lewis who would actually
        > > enforce the
        > >> rule book they were sunk.
        > >>
        > >> The Flyers were not without talent. Rick MacLeish, Bobby Clarke,
        > > Bill
        > >> Barber, Bernie Parent, Jimmy Watson, and Reg Leach were
        outstanding
        > > hockey
        > >> players. But this was not a true championship calibre team if
        (and
        > > this is a
        > >> big if in the world of the NHL) the rule book was actually
        > > enforced. There
        > >> were other tough teams in the past. Teams like the late 60's
        Boston
        > > Bruins
        > >> or as was mentioned the St. Louis Blues of the late 60's. But the
        > > difference
        > >> between them and the Flyers was the tough guys on those teams
        could
        > > play.
        > >> The Plagers while not stars had long NHL careers and were very
        > > capable
        > >> defensemen. Derek Sanderson, John McKenzie, Ted Green, etc of
        > > Boston were
        > >> fine players who were also tough. Take fighting out of the game
        and
        > > these
        > >> guys are still in the league. The Flyers though became the first
        > > team to win
        > >> through brutal violence using players like Dave Schultz who
        clearly
        > > lacked
        > >> the talent to be a legitimate NHL player.
        > >>
        > >> Did they wreck the NHL? I don't know about that. They were a good
        > > draw
        > >> (however so is a plane crash - people are drawn to morbid things)
        > > so in the
        > >> short term they didn't seem to hurt thing. But in that era how
        many
        > > teams
        > >> failed and either had to move or folded? And (and we can never be
        > > sure of
        > >> this) how many fans simply walked away from the game due to the
        > > violece and
        > >> didn't let their kids get invol;ved in it. More then a few.
        > >>
        > >> Craig
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> ----- Original Message -----
        > >> From: "Jim Dornberger" <jpdornberger@c...>
        > >> To: <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
        > >> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:40 PM
        > >> Subject: [hockhist] Re: Broad St. Bullies, the bane of hockey
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Dave,
        > >>
        > >> I wrote my defense of the Flyers because of the original "The
        Flyers
        > >> Impact on Hockey" thread by Craig who quoted this other idio.
        > >> gentleman who postulated that the 74-75 Flyers were nearly the
        > >> ruination of hockey. Craig also decried the beating that Dale
        Rolfe
        > >> took at the hands of Dave Schultz in the playoffs (I was 8 rows
        > >> behind Eddie Giacomin in the 1st & 3rd for that one). Clearly,
        > >> though indefensible, it is not better or worse than incidents
        before
        > >> and after that one. Rolfe did play again, unlike Steve Moore and
        > >> others who have taken beatings in the game (how about all the
        facial
        > >> surgeries that Lou Fontanato endured after being pummeled by
        Gordie
        > >> Howe, or "Mr. Old Tyme Hockey, Eddie Shore ending Ace Baileys
        career
        > >> with a stick over the head that damn near killed him and
        requiring
        > >> brain surgery).
        > >>
        > >> I am also replying to JP Martel who said:
        > >>
        > >> > NHL Franchise Records 1926-04
        > >> >
        > >> > Team GP W L T OTL Pts %
        > >> > Montreal Canadiens 5352 2751 1742 831 32 .595
        > >> > Philadelphia 2965 1488 999 457 24 .583
        > >>
        > >> "Jim, nobody ever said that the tactics used by the Flyers in the
        > >> 1970s didn't work. The argument is that they nearly killed
        hockey."
        > >>
        > >> and
        > >>
        > >> "This other guy had never watched a single hockey game in his
        life,
        > >> even though he was usually interested in sports. When I asked him
        > > how
        > >> come he'd never even tried it once, he answered: "Well, hockey,
        it's
        > >> like roller derby on skates, right?" And that's what he honestly
        > >> believed."
        > >>
        > >> My point is that the Flyers did not invent the violence inherent
        in
        > >> hockey it was there before and it exists today (notwithstanding
        the
        > >> current rules changes and teams not wanting addition PIMs for
        > >> fighting). My other point is that they are the 2nd winningest
        team
        > >> ever and they did most of it on skill - they only did the goon
        stuff
        > >> for about 5 years - but there reputation seems cast in stone.
        > >>
        > >> The thing is that the franchise is known for that because that's
        > > what
        > >> put it on the map. Also, the collective conscience of non-fans
        only
        > >> knows hockey when it was in Time or Newsweek (as the Flyers did
        in
        > >> the 70s) or the evening news for stuff like what Mart McSorley or
        > >> Todd Bertuzzi did. To blame the leagues' reputation with non-
        fans
        > > on
        > >> the Flyers ignores over 100 years of brutal violence that has
        been
        > >> part of the sport.
        > >>
        > >> Jim
        > >>
        > >> By the way they were designed to "goon first" Parent, Clarke,
        > > Barber,
        > >> MacLeish, Flett were all on the team prior to Schultz, Saleski
        and
        > >> Dupont.
        > >>
        > >> I don't know what people mean by "they were allowed to get away
        with
        > >> it". They rung more penalty minutes than any other team -- what
        did
        > >> they get away with?
        > >>
        > >> --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "goaliedave" <goaliedave@s...>
        > > wrote:
        > >> >
        > >> > Jim,
        > >> >
        > >> > I think the main point we are saying is that the idea of a team
        > >> designed
        > >> > "goon first", that was tolerated by the league to put caual USA
        > >> fans in the
        > >> > seats at any cost, with an easy ride through the playoffs...
        was
        > >> more a
        > >> > speed bump in the history of hockey than a major contributor.
        > > True,
        > >> after
        > >> > Beliveau and Ferguson retired there were a few years while the
        > > Habs
        > >> retooled
        > >> > and other teams got to win a few cups, but surely you can't
        > > compare
        > >> Philly's
        > >> > success to the Habs' prominence in 25 of 30 years in the 50s,
        60s,
        > >> 70s ?
        > >> > (not to mention the Leafs and Wings). I'd put the Flyers Cups
        with
        > >> > Pittsburgh's ... things came together for a couple of years and
        > >> great for
        > >> > them, but not much impact on the NHL in the long term.
        > >> >
        > >> > Most fans these days weren't watching back then, and Gretzky is
        > >> sort of the
        > >> > starting block for the latest generation of the game. The
        Oilers,
        > >> much as I
        > >> > hated them, took over the Habs team design using the
        traditional
        > >> policeman
        > >> > on a line of great players and rode it to deserved glory. The
        Habs
        > >> > management has fumbled around since the last dynasty, and with
        the
        > >> new NHL
        > >> > we see much more even competition, most teams have realized the
        > >> goon game is
        > >> > gone and the play is back to free flowing. I don't hear many
        fans
        > >> wishing
        > >> > for the old clutch and grab, hold and whack, gang up and pound,
        > > WHA
        > >> talent
        > >> > drained, days of the early 70s.
        > >> >
        > >> > Dave in Whitby
        > >> >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to
        > >> hockhist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >>
        > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to
        > > hockhist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Jim Dornberger
        Whoa! Sorry about the old messages. Should have snipped em.
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 1, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Whoa! Sorry about the old messages. Should have snipped 'em.
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.