>The owners are taking a huge risk here as well.
You are right, hockey fans are loyal. But the game will suffer
severe consequences when it returns. They will lose revenues from so
many different sources, and not from just a drop-off in fan
Where? The same sponsors will be back. In Canada the sport will get them
back as it is a major product in the US it doesn't have many to begin
with. The TV money is a joke and can't go much lower. This is a gate
driven sport. The main loss or gain is predicated on the fans coming
>You even mention that some franchises may have to fold. We'll that's
great if you are not one of those franchises. The funny thing is
that the prime candidates for folding are the franchises that
>Bettman's in bed with.
The second part is true. the first part has a bad other side to it. You
are actually better off folding than continuing in the same bad system
or a new half assed successor. Several owners have actually went out of
their way to say this.
>Bill, I know you are pro-owner - but everyone is to blame and
I'm not really totally lauding the owners. The owners are to blame for
creating this mess over the past ten years and I was one of the first to
point an accusing finger at them. The wild eyed greed laced pipe dreams
of the 90's of Bettman and co are exactly what got us into this mess!
But now, they are trying to clean up the mess that they made themselves
and it is the players who are the ones now who are the wild eyed, greed
stricken pipe dreamers, the shoe has shifted to the other foot.
For over ten years, the owners made one miscalculation after another and
the players took advantage of it. Now the owners are trying to bring us
back to sanity...
>P.S. - You can't try to go from a free-market system to a hard-cap
system without trying some intermediate ideas first. I know the
whole speech against revenue sharing and luxury taxes, but that's
>were a short-term deal could have been made.
Sure you can! Both the NFL and NBA did with NO transitional period. And
this sport can't stand any more half solutions,. It need s a full
solution and it need sit now. The problem with hockey is that we have
had to darn many half measures right across the board on and off ice. If
football and hoops can do it so can we. An awful lot of contracts are
over now and going into next year, I submit that there has never been a
better time than now top do it. By 2006 a huge percentage of the league
will be done with their deals, very few long term deals have been signed
The one thing this sport may not be abler to take is to be back where we
are in 3 or 5 years. We need a system in place for the long term today
to prevent that. This lockout we may survive but if we need to go
through another one down the line in the not so distant future, the
league may well then be in all of the trouble that the worst gloom and
doom sorts say band more...
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org
, "William Underwood" <wausport@b...>
> I'm not so sure it will be all that bad Joe. Hockey fans are a
> bunch. Where there are real fans they will be back. And even in
> where the game is more anonymous, how angry can people be about a
> being gone that they are not even aware is gone? The game may well
> stronger. You might lose markets that don't belong and get a
> league with better competition. Or you may see the same teams back
> the league more sensitive to its market.
> As for franchise values, with a cap they may actually be better
> prime reason why teams have been tougher to sell as sand in the
> or an outdoor nudist resort at the north pole ahs been the crazy
> economics. A more sensible system will make people more interested
> buying. It will also male more venues able to support hockey. I
> there are nay sayers but a reasonable cap COULD (not WILL) allow a
> Winnipeg or Quebec to seriously look at getting back into things.
> would also give places like Portland and Houston more security in
> looking at teams. There would be more takers!
> Having a season for the sake of having a season under a half assed
> would do more harm. Franchise values would collapse and you would
> teams die. Oddly enough you would see both sides of the pro and
> expansion crowd weep. In Canada teams like Edmonton, Calgary and
> would be gone. And in the US, a lot of the newer non traditional
> would have a death sentence. Miami, Raleigh, Nashville and Atlanta
> all probably die!
> Franchise values have stagnated because if three reasons. One, an
> artificial value set by expansion. Two, there has been a 10 year
> era for sports that has slowed as of the past 5 years. Three, a bad
> economic system in the NHL has been a killer that has infected it
> than other sports. The third issue will be gone! The best teams
> have an even better bottom line with 20-40 million in costs gone,
> smaller markets will be able to survive and more places that don't
> teams now will be able to look at them. It may well arrest the
> difficulty that teams have had in being sold. There have been some
> the market for between 3 and 5 years with no takers under this
> Once more, they may well be things that fewer people want to sell.
> Another fourth problem has been that the market is glutted with NHL
> teams for sale relative to other sports. It is actually a buyers
> With a good hard cap linked to revenue you may well see less
> sale...must go" signs on the door.
> As for player salaries...you will be absolutely right if the
> don't wake up and smell the coffee! If they push the owners to the
> of impasse they could lose out more and if not if they force a
> reorganization they will DOUBTLESSLY lose more! They don't realize
> good the offer is right now! In all honesty the owners are
> by 5-10 million for real safety. I tend to think that range should
> more 25-35 mill! And if they REALLY want to get nasty in a new
> they COULD make Goodenow's boogie man of "no more guaranteed deals
> no arbitration" a self fulfilling prophecy. The fact is that the
> might get what they fear most by doing what they are doing now.
> things are not being taken away by the current proposals, thus
> fighting with wind mills, but if there is a reorganization, their
> stubbornness now may well turn them into real dragons! Then more I
> about it the more I'd love to get Bob Goodenow to a poker table!
> keep on thinking you are bluffing and raise the pot against your 5
> bullets with his three of a kind...a guy can rich that way! This
> sort of negotiation we are seeing. Then owners could well have
> bullets with reorganization...Hey I'll bet he is free tonight! :)
> All joking aside, the players just don't realize how much worse it
> get. I think that they have had POOR leadership from day one.
> had Alan Eagleson who robbed them deaf dumb and blind, now they
> Goodenow who got them the current deal more out of owner
> than him being good. But there are new faces at the table now and
> different circumstances. Hr hasn't read that and they will be the
> to suffer if these guys are as determined as they seem to be.
> still time for them to sign onto this deal with a bit of fine
> not enough to save this season but perhaps to get the next one
> Perhaps there need sot be a certain guaranteed growth for
> prevent the cap from contracting as hockey is the one sport where
> could imagine revenue actually declining thanks to its lack of TV
> presence. Maybe arbitration needs more fine tuning and perhaps a
> age for unrestricted free agency. It is not a bad deal as it is
> you compare it to what it could be if the owners have to go al the
> to the wall. It is time that they start to think that way or one
> is for sure, a lot of careers will end prematurely. Older guys will
> retire, if we have a smaller league there will be less jobs and
> leaders, unless they are top players in their prime will be on the
> outside. Time is not on the players side. The young guys want to
> with their careers and the guys that are looking to be drafted in
> next two to three years want theirs to start. More and more cracks
> start come in their ranks, once this thing got to the point where
> now, the prospect of sweating the owners out declined by a HUGE
> You are right Joe, if the players don't settle BEFORE we reach an
> impasse they may pay more than they can possibly imagine!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joe_gucciardo@y... [mailto:joe_gucciardo@y...]
> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 9:17 AM
> To: email@example.com
> Subject: [hockhist] WHAT A BUNCH OF JERKS
> The sport is dead. It will take years to recover from this, if it
> recovers at all. The owners and players have killed themselves.
> When the league comes back - or reorganizes - franchise values
> be half of what they were and player salaries will be a lot less
> than the currently proposed cap ranges.
> What a bunch of idiots.
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