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"Clearly" a bad idea

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  • Joe Pelletier
    I m listening to Ron Wilson on a Vancouver radio show tonight (Sports Talk, CKNW, host Dan Russell). Wilson of course is the Sharks coach, but was also the
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 3, 2003
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      I'm listening to Ron Wilson on a Vancouver radio show tonight (Sports Talk,
      CKNW, host Dan Russell). Wilson of course is the Sharks coach, but was also
      the first and long time coach of the Mighty Ducks.

      Part of the interview focussed on Wilson's memories of the early days in
      Anaheim and working for Disney. He said (paraphrasing here) "there were a
      few hare-brained ideas, but for the most part everything was normal." The
      host asked about some of the odd ideas, to which Wilson informed us that
      Disney CEO Michael Eisner actually wanted the players to wear clear helmets
      so the fans could see there hair!

      --------Joe Pelletier----------------------
      http://www.1972summitseries.com
      In bookstores Now:
      THE WORLD CUP OF HOCKEY
      http://www3.telus.net/worldcuphockey
      ---------------------------------------------------

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    • Morey Holzman
      Why is that a bad idea? I think Mr. Eisner s influence is exactly what is wrong with the NHL - where do you think the 4 on 4 OT came from? Morey - who misses
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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        Why is that a bad idea? I think Mr. Eisner's influence is exactly
        what is wrong with the NHL - where do you think the 4 on 4 OT came
        from?

        Morey - who misses the days of Ron Duguay and Ron Greschner



        --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Pelletier"
        <iamjoepelletier@h...> wrote:
        > I'm listening to Ron Wilson on a Vancouver radio show tonight
        (Sports Talk,
        > CKNW, host Dan Russell). Wilson of course is the Sharks coach, but
        was also
        > the first and long time coach of the Mighty Ducks.
        >
        > Part of the interview focussed on Wilson's memories of the early
        days in
        > Anaheim and working for Disney. He said (paraphrasing here) "there
        were a
        > few hare-brained ideas, but for the most part everything was
        normal." The
        > host asked about some of the odd ideas, to which Wilson informed us
        that
        > Disney CEO Michael Eisner actually wanted the players to wear clear
        helmets
        > so the fans could see there hair!
        >
        > --------Joe Pelletier----------------------
        > http://www.1972summitseries.com
        > In bookstores Now:
        > THE WORLD CUP OF HOCKEY
        > http://www3.telus.net/worldcuphockey
        > ---------------------------------------------------
        >
        > _________________________________________________________________
        > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
        > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
      • William Underwood
        If Larry Giroux was still in the league maybe...seeing his Afro hang out of a clear helmet might have been a good laugh! But unless you are Paul Mitchell or
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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          If Larry Giroux was still in the league maybe...seeing his Afro hang out
          of a clear helmet might have been a good laugh! But unless you are Paul
          Mitchell or Vidal Sasson, exactly who cares about looking at a guy's
          hair through a clear helmet?

          It's interesting, there isn't anyone that I know that has dealt with
          Anaheim over the years that doesn't come out singing "M-I-C-K-E-Y
          M-O-U-S-E", horror stories of a GOTHIC nature! Which is one of the
          reasons that I hope Burns has the mouse trap out the next two and
          finishes this thing OFF and file it under "mercy killing", even the
          Zamboni people aren't watching...

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Morey Holzman [mailto:MOREY_H@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 12:09 PM
          To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [hockhist] Re: "Clearly" a bad idea

          Why is that a bad idea? I think Mr. Eisner's influence is exactly
          what is wrong with the NHL - where do you think the 4 on 4 OT came
          from?

          Morey - who misses the days of Ron Duguay and Ron Greschner



          --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Pelletier"
          <iamjoepelletier@h...> wrote:
          > I'm listening to Ron Wilson on a Vancouver radio show tonight
          (Sports Talk,
          > CKNW, host Dan Russell). Wilson of course is the Sharks coach, but
          was also
          > the first and long time coach of the Mighty Ducks.
          >
          > Part of the interview focussed on Wilson's memories of the early
          days in
          > Anaheim and working for Disney. He said (paraphrasing here) "there
          were a
          > few hare-brained ideas, but for the most part everything was
          normal." The
          > host asked about some of the odd ideas, to which Wilson informed us
          that
          > Disney CEO Michael Eisner actually wanted the players to wear clear
          helmets
          > so the fans could see there hair!
          >
          > --------Joe Pelletier----------------------
          > http://www.1972summitseries.com
          > In bookstores Now:
          > THE WORLD CUP OF HOCKEY
          > http://www3.telus.net/worldcuphockey
          > ---------------------------------------------------
          >
          > _________________________________________________________________
          > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
          > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail



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        • Marc Foster
          ... It s one thing to use a clear shell, but what of the padding? I don t think it s realistic to make that clear. To me, teams need to go in the opposite
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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            > From: "William Underwood" <wausport@...>

            > If Larry Giroux was still in the league maybe...seeing his Afro hang out
            > of a clear helmet might have been a good laugh! But unless you are Paul
            > Mitchell or Vidal Sasson, exactly who cares about looking at a guy's
            > hair through a clear helmet?

            It's one thing to use a clear shell, but what of the padding? I don't think
            it's realistic to make that clear. To me, teams need to go in the opposite
            direction, and place more team logo designs on their helmets. I'm not
            talking goalie-level art, but certainly something more than a one inch sized
            sticker.

            Besides, who wants to see "helmet hair" in production?

            Marc
          • William Underwood
            And that is a good point...A clear helmet without padding to allow refs to check guys out to see if they should get two minutes for having the greasies...gotta
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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              And that is a good point...A clear helmet without padding to allow refs
              to check guys out to see if they should get two minutes for having the
              greasies...gotta hand it to Eisner...who else would have ever thought of
              that...outside of the odd drinking establishments in places like
              Greenwich Village and Frisco where all of the gang from the local hair
              salons go to talk sports...and after all, what is more important, good
              follicular tone or cranial safety?

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Marc Foster [mailto:mfoster@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 12:42 PM
              To: Hockhist
              Subject: Re: [hockhist] Re: "Clearly" a bad idea

              > From: "William Underwood" <wausport@...>

              > If Larry Giroux was still in the league maybe...seeing his Afro hang
              out
              > of a clear helmet might have been a good laugh! But unless you are
              Paul
              > Mitchell or Vidal Sasson, exactly who cares about looking at a guy's
              > hair through a clear helmet?

              It's one thing to use a clear shell, but what of the padding? I don't
              think
              it's realistic to make that clear. To me, teams need to go in the
              opposite
              direction, and place more team logo designs on their helmets. I'm not
              talking goalie-level art, but certainly something more than a one inch
              sized
              sticker.

              Besides, who wants to see "helmet hair" in production?

              Marc



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            • Morey Holzman
              In a sport where moving picks are penalized and crosschecks to the back are let go, who really cares about safety? Morey ... refs ... the ... thought of ...
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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                In a sport where moving picks are penalized and crosschecks to the
                back are let go, who really cares about safety?

                Morey

                --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "William Underwood" <wausport@b...>
                wrote:
                > And that is a good point...A clear helmet without padding to allow
                refs
                > to check guys out to see if they should get two minutes for having
                the
                > greasies...gotta hand it to Eisner...who else would have ever
                thought of
                > that...outside of the odd drinking establishments in places like
                > Greenwich Village and Frisco where all of the gang from the local
                hair
                > salons go to talk sports...and after all, what is more important,
                good
                > follicular tone or cranial safety?
              • William Underwood
                Compared to hair tone...a lot of us... ... From: Morey Holzman [mailto:MOREY_H@HOTMAIL.COM] Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 3:25 PM To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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                  Compared to hair tone...a lot of us...

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Morey Holzman [mailto:MOREY_H@...]
                  Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 3:25 PM
                  To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [hockhist] Re: "Clearly" a bad idea

                  In a sport where moving picks are penalized and crosschecks to the
                  back are let go, who really cares about safety?

                  Morey

                  --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "William Underwood" <wausport@b...>
                  wrote:
                  > And that is a good point...A clear helmet without padding to allow
                  refs
                  > to check guys out to see if they should get two minutes for having
                  the
                  > greasies...gotta hand it to Eisner...who else would have ever
                  thought of
                  > that...outside of the odd drinking establishments in places like
                  > Greenwich Village and Frisco where all of the gang from the local
                  hair
                  > salons go to talk sports...and after all, what is more important,
                  good
                  > follicular tone or cranial safety?




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                • Jean-Patrice Martel
                  ... helmets ... Actually, I think this was a silly idea, but it was addressing a legitimate concern. The less you see the players, the less you can identify
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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                    --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Pelletier"
                    <iamjoepelletier@h...> wrote:
                    > Disney CEO Michael Eisner actually wanted the players to wear clear
                    helmets
                    > so the fans could see there hair!

                    Actually, I think this was a silly idea, but it was addressing a
                    legitimate concern.

                    The less you see the players, the less you can identify with them, so
                    the less passionate you can become about the game. That's why I don't
                    like tinted visors, for example. This is also why Brett Hull went
                    helmet-less at the 1993 All-Star game in Montréal. He "did it for the
                    fans".

                    I'm not advocating returning to the no-helmet days, of course. But,
                    for example, I wish goalies would routinely take off their mask
                    immediately after a game.

                    Actually, I think this issue hurts women's hockey. You never get to
                    see the players' faces, at least until they win an Olympic medal
                    (which doesn't happen very often, or to everyone). Again, I'm not
                    saying to get rid of the masks, but they should use every chance they
                    have to show us what they look like (I'm not sure if they do during
                    pre-game national anthems). Rooting for "that great #12" doesn't hold
                    the same charm as rooting for an actual, recognisable, person.

                    Jean-Patrice
                  • Marc Foster
                    ... And we know that full helmet really hurts the NFL players. ... I wouldn t mind it... would get the sticks down in a hurry. Marc
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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                      Jean-Patrice Martel wrote:

                      > The less you see the players, the less you can identify with them, so
                      > the less passionate you can become about the game.

                      And we know that full helmet really hurts the NFL players.

                      > I'm not advocating returning to the no-helmet days, of course.

                      I wouldn't mind it... would get the sticks down in a hurry.

                      Marc
                    • William Underwood
                      I agree. The intent of the idea may have been good but the idea itself was just, well no pun intended, goofy. It is true that you had more identification in
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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                        I agree. The intent of the idea may have been good but the idea itself
                        was just, well no pun intended, goofy.

                        It is true that you had more identification in the no helmet days, but
                        they are gone for good.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Jean-Patrice Martel [mailto:jpmartel_18@...]
                        Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 9:27 PM
                        To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [hockhist] Re: "Clearly" a bad idea

                        --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Pelletier"
                        <iamjoepelletier@h...> wrote:
                        > Disney CEO Michael Eisner actually wanted the players to wear clear
                        helmets
                        > so the fans could see there hair!

                        Actually, I think this was a silly idea, but it was addressing a
                        legitimate concern.

                        The less you see the players, the less you can identify with them, so
                        the less passionate you can become about the game. That's why I don't
                        like tinted visors, for example. This is also why Brett Hull went
                        helmet-less at the 1993 All-Star game in Montréal. He "did it for the
                        fans".

                        I'm not advocating returning to the no-helmet days, of course. But,
                        for example, I wish goalies would routinely take off their mask
                        immediately after a game.

                        Actually, I think this issue hurts women's hockey. You never get to
                        see the players' faces, at least until they win an Olympic medal
                        (which doesn't happen very often, or to everyone). Again, I'm not
                        saying to get rid of the masks, but they should use every chance they
                        have to show us what they look like (I'm not sure if they do during
                        pre-game national anthems). Rooting for "that great #12" doesn't hold
                        the same charm as rooting for an actual, recognisable, person.

                        Jean-Patrice



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                      • Jean-Patrice Martel
                        ... them, so ... Actually, television is constantly showing them on the sidelines, sans helmet. The hockey players generally keep their helmets on between
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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                          --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, Marc Foster <mfoster@h...> wrote:
                          > Jean-Patrice Martel wrote:
                          >
                          > > The less you see the players, the less you can identify with
                          them, so
                          > > the less passionate you can become about the game.
                          >
                          > And we know that full helmet really hurts the NFL players.

                          Actually, television is constantly showing them on the sidelines,
                          sans helmet. The hockey players generally keep their helmets on
                          between shifts.

                          Jean-Patrice
                        • William Underwood
                          Well there are a few differences...in football you never expect a player to lack a helmet plus the game plain old sells itself in the US. And in football, the
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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                            Well there are a few differences...in football you never expect a player
                            to lack a helmet plus the game plain old sells itself in the US. And in
                            football, the helmet itself became an icon as it is big enough to sport
                            a big logo and, in the doing, make itself THE symbol of the team.

                            As for getting the sticks down, it is a good idea on paper. But the
                            problem is that the guys wear them from such a young age on you would be
                            trying to eliminate 15 year old habits with people's melons at stake in
                            the doing! And with insurance concerns you will never be able to get
                            guys to be able to play without them younger. Hell, a few years ago I
                            brought up the idea for my summer league of making players take off
                            their helmet before a fight like in Canada. The idea makes sense, after
                            all a lot can happen here! If one fake tough guy has the bird cage on
                            and starts going with a guy who loses his hat, there is a MAJOR
                            advantage and somebody can get hurt! Plus there is the increased chance
                            of broken fingers not to mention there is always the chance that a face
                            shield gets grabbed or twisted--I remember I was playing when those
                            silly things went mandatory, I always said I'd rather have a broken nose
                            than a broken neck! The answer was a RESOUNDING "no". So we have a
                            generation that is growing up in a suit of armor these days. And at the
                            rate things are going, the actuaries might even start asking for them to
                            also use force fields...So at age 20,21,22 we would be trying to break
                            established reflexes to contact that have been developed an encoded for
                            over a decade! And the result would be that as they learn guys would get
                            hurt both by the tomahawks and guys killing the lancers that carry them.
                            And then there would be the guys that don't learn the right way to
                            protect themselves
                            but drop the old means and just end up getting clobbered...

                            To me about the closest that we can get is to endeavor to get rid of the
                            full shields ASAP. If guys would go down to the veisor half shield and
                            mouth guard at midget, and HAVE to dump the cage we would see a phased
                            learning process. Enough to protection to keep the eyes fairly safe but
                            little enough
                            to make guys give pause.

                            But I doubt that even that would fly! If they scram at the junior level
                            where some guys are over 18, they will scream more at midget...Only at
                            junior A can you start to get away with it...but then they go to college
                            and it's off to Le Cage Aux Folle again!

                            This is not to say that I think that things are hopeless. What has to be
                            done is STRICT enforcement of the rules and DRACONIAN penalties for
                            violations at the YOUTH level. Maybe kids ought to get automatic EJ's
                            got high sticks. Maybe suspensions are in order also. We do it for
                            fighting and which is more likely to seriously hurt a guy? A simple man
                            to man "discussion" that these guys have already had the odd one of on
                            the playground, or getting clubbed?

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Marc Foster [mailto:mfoster@...]
                            Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:15 PM
                            To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [hockhist] Re: "Clearly" a bad idea

                            Jean-Patrice Martel wrote:

                            > The less you see the players, the less you can identify with them, so
                            > the less passionate you can become about the game.

                            And we know that full helmet really hurts the NFL players.

                            > I'm not advocating returning to the no-helmet days, of course.

                            I wouldn't mind it... would get the sticks down in a hurry.

                            Marc


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                          • William Underwood
                            And have to...nothing like talking to the guy next to you on the bench about that waitress in LA when ZAP a cleared puck sails in...Coaches are up and ready,
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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                              And have to...nothing like talking to the guy next to you on the bench
                              about "that waitress in LA" when ZAP a cleared puck sails in...Coaches
                              are up and ready, a player might have his head down using a towel,
                              getting a drink or catching his wind...

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Jean-Patrice Martel [mailto:jpmartel_18@...]
                              Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:26 PM
                              To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [hockhist] Re: "Clearly" a bad idea

                              --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, Marc Foster <mfoster@h...> wrote:
                              > Jean-Patrice Martel wrote:
                              >
                              > > The less you see the players, the less you can identify with
                              them, so
                              > > the less passionate you can become about the game.
                              >
                              > And we know that full helmet really hurts the NFL players.

                              Actually, television is constantly showing them on the sidelines,
                              sans helmet. The hockey players generally keep their helmets on
                              between shifts.

                              Jean-Patrice



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                            • Martin Poitras
                              ... them, so ... And what about goaltenders ?? They wore full mask for a long time now any many hockey fans and young kids identify themselves with them.
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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                                > Jean-Patrice Martel wrote:
                                >
                                > > The less you see the players, the less you can identify with
                                them, so
                                > > the less passionate you can become about the game.

                                And what about goaltenders ?? They wore full mask for a long time now any
                                many hockey fans and young kids identify themselves with them. Plus,
                                goaltenders are now often the most popular star of a team, with some
                                exceptions.

                                Martin

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • William Underwood
                                Again, like football helmets are how you ID a team, a goalie s mask artwork creates and appeal for kids. It is a large enough drawing to catch the eye and
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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                                  Again, like football helmets are how you ID a team, a goalie's mask
                                  artwork creates and appeal for kids. It is a large enough drawing to
                                  catch the eye and dominate the vision of the player. Hockey helmets lack
                                  the surface area for really large logos. You can do like some college
                                  teams and put stripes and what not on them but it is still not the same
                                  as the logo and can even clash with the more eye catching version on the
                                  sweater.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Martin Poitras [mailto:martin@...]
                                  Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:44 PM
                                  To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [hockhist] Re: "Clearly" a bad idea

                                  > Jean-Patrice Martel wrote:

                                  >

                                  > > The less you see the players, the less you can identify with

                                  them, so

                                  > > the less passionate you can become about the game.



                                  And what about goaltenders ?? They wore full mask for a long time now
                                  any
                                  many hockey fans and young kids identify themselves with them. Plus,
                                  goaltenders are now often the most popular star of a team, with some
                                  exceptions.



                                  Martin

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                • Jean-Patrice Martel
                                  ... now any ... True, but a recent feature on J.-S. Giguère (don t remember where) started with the incident (in the second round I think) where he lost his
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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                                    --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Poitras" <martin@g...> wrote:
                                    > > Jean-Patrice Martel wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > The less you see the players, the less you can identify with
                                    > them, so
                                    > > > the less passionate you can become about the game.
                                    >
                                    > And what about goaltenders ?? They wore full mask for a long time
                                    now any
                                    > many hockey fans and young kids identify themselves with them.

                                    True, but a recent feature on J.-S. Giguère (don't remember where)
                                    started with the incident (in the second round I think) where he lost
                                    his mask, pointing out that people finally got to see what he looked
                                    like. Goalies in general also got the great idea of ultra-
                                    personalising their masks with often extremely well-done art.

                                    I'm not saying get rid of the helmets or the masks, and I'm not
                                    saying they make identification impossible. I'm saying the less you
                                    see of the players, the harder it is to identify with them. There was
                                    actually a very short animated feature on this at the beginning
                                    of "Hockey Day in Canada" this past season (or actually at the end of
                                    the kids' show that preceded it), with an owner complaining (to the
                                    league management I think) that their soldiers in armour looked
                                    completely interchangeable.

                                    So it's nice to see the players without the helmets and masks once in
                                    a while, be it in interviews, during the anthems, after the game,
                                    when they announce the three stars, etc.

                                    Jean-Patrice
                                  • Martin Poitras
                                    ... Dominik Hasek had a cool design on his helmet with the Wings. And some designs on some mask have so many details that you can t figure out what s on it
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jun 4, 2003
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                                      >a goalie's mask artwork creates and appeal for kids. It is a large enough
                                      drawing to
                                      >catch the eye and dominate the vision of the player.

                                      Dominik Hasek had a cool design on his helmet with the Wings. And some
                                      designs on some mask have so many details that you can't figure out what's
                                      on it unless you have it in your hands, like Cechmanek's pharaon for example


                                      I think goaltenders are popular because of their place in the team and their
                                      spectacular moves. Masks become popular after the goaltender establish
                                      himself. Anybody remembers what Joseph's mask was in his early days with
                                      the Blues ? When Joseph became more popular, he had his Cujo desing made
                                      and became a hit.

                                      Martin

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • William Underwood
                                      Oh no doubt the two go hand in hand! But the designs do make a colorful addition to the game. A guy even did a book of them a while back. What you have to keep
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jun 5, 2003
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                                        Oh no doubt the two go hand in hand! But the designs do make a colorful
                                        addition to the game. A guy even did a book of them a while back.

                                        What you have to keep in mind is that ANY of this visual appeal stuff is
                                        more for the casual fan who probably knows little of the players. It is
                                        window dressing for the lesser attention span to catch their eye.

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Martin Poitras [mailto:martin@...]
                                        Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 11:11 PM
                                        To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [hockhist] Re: "Clearly" a bad idea

                                        >a goalie's mask artwork creates and appeal for kids. It is a large
                                        enough
                                        drawing to

                                        >catch the eye and dominate the vision of the player.



                                        Dominik Hasek had a cool design on his helmet with the Wings. And some
                                        designs on some mask have so many details that you can't figure out
                                        what's
                                        on it unless you have it in your hands, like Cechmanek's pharaon for
                                        example




                                        I think goaltenders are popular because of their place in the team and
                                        their
                                        spectacular moves. Masks become popular after the goaltender establish
                                        himself. Anybody remembers what Joseph's mask was in his early days
                                        with
                                        the Blues ? When Joseph became more popular, he had his Cujo desing
                                        made
                                        and became a hit.



                                        Martin

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                                      • Jayme Allen
                                        Hopefully nobody suggests clear athletic supporters...it s just not a good idea. ... Oh no doubt the two go hand in hand! But the designs do make a colorful
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jun 7, 2003
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hopefully nobody suggests "clear" athletic
                                          supporters...it's just not a good idea.

                                          --- William Underwood <wausport@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          ---------------------------------
                                          Oh no doubt the two go hand in hand! But the designs
                                          do make a colorful
                                          addition to the game. A guy even did a book of them a
                                          while back.

                                          What you have to keep in mind is that ANY of this
                                          visual appeal stuff is
                                          more for the casual fan who probably knows little of
                                          the players. It is
                                          window dressing for the lesser attention span to catch
                                          their eye.

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Martin Poitras
                                          [mailto:martin@...]
                                          Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 11:11 PM
                                          To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [hockhist] Re: "Clearly" a bad idea

                                          >a goalie's mask artwork creates and appeal for kids.
                                          It is a large
                                          enough
                                          drawing to

                                          >catch the eye and dominate the vision of the player.



                                          Dominik Hasek had a cool design on his helmet with the
                                          Wings. And some
                                          designs on some mask have so many details that you
                                          can't figure out
                                          what's
                                          on it unless you have it in your hands, like
                                          Cechmanek's pharaon for
                                          example




                                          I think goaltenders are popular because of their place
                                          in the team and
                                          their
                                          spectacular moves. Masks become popular after the
                                          goaltender establish
                                          himself. Anybody remembers what Joseph's mask was in
                                          his early days
                                          with
                                          the Blues ? When Joseph became more popular, he had
                                          his Cujo desing
                                          made
                                          and became a hit.



                                          Martin

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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