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youngest players in NHL

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  • bchaikin1 <bchaikin@bballsports.com>
    going thru total hockey (1998 ed) i noticed the vast majority of players who made NHL debuts at age 17 or younger occurred during WWII (understandably). but a
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 1, 2003
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      going thru total hockey (1998 ed) i noticed the vast majority of
      players who made NHL debuts at age 17 or younger occurred during WWII
      (understandably). but a few other players, based on their birthdates
      listed in total hockey, also made very early debuts....

      total hockey lists tom c. williams of the 71-72 new york rangers as
      having a b-day of 2-7-1957, which would mean he would have been all
      of 14 years old when he made his nhl debut. anyone know if this is
      true (or if it's a total hockey incorrect b-day date)? if so was this
      a big deal at the time that a 14 year old was playing in the nhl?...

      also dave kryskow made his nhl debut for the 72-73 chicago
      blackhawks. his total hockey b-day is listed as 12-25-1957, which
      would mean he was 15 years old at the time. anyone know if this is
      true and again if it was a big deal at the time?...

      plus dave hrechkosy of the 73-74 california golden seals (b-day lised
      as 11-01-1957) and chris speyer of the 23-24 toonto st.patricks (b-
      day listed as 2-6-1907) would have both been 16 years old. true?...

      thanks for any help...

      bob chaikin
      bchaikin@...
    • George Lloyd
      I ve never been a fan of Total Hockey because of all the mistakes made in it. In some of my older Hockey Registers put out by Sporting news, the birth dates
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 1, 2003
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        I've never been a fan of Total Hockey because of all the mistakes made
        in it.

        In some of my older Hockey Registers put out by Sporting news, the
        birth dates are as follows:

        Tom Williams 2-7-51
        Dave Kryskow 12-25-1951
        Dave Hrechkosy 11-1-1951

        George

        --- "bchaikin1 <bchaikin@...>" <bchaikin@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > going thru total hockey (1998 ed) i noticed the vast majority of
        > players who made NHL debuts at age 17 or younger occurred during WWII
        >
        > (understandably). but a few other players, based on their birthdates
        > listed in total hockey, also made very early debuts....
        >
        > total hockey lists tom c. williams of the 71-72 new york rangers as
        > having a b-day of 2-7-1957, which would mean he would have been all
        > of 14 years old when he made his nhl debut. anyone know if this is
        > true (or if it's a total hockey incorrect b-day date)? if so was this
        >
        > a big deal at the time that a 14 year old was playing in the nhl?...
        >
        > also dave kryskow made his nhl debut for the 72-73 chicago
        > blackhawks. his total hockey b-day is listed as 12-25-1957, which
        > would mean he was 15 years old at the time. anyone know if this is
        > true and again if it was a big deal at the time?...
        >
        > plus dave hrechkosy of the 73-74 california golden seals (b-day lised
        >
        > as 11-01-1957) and chris speyer of the 23-24 toonto st.patricks (b-
        > day listed as 2-6-1907) would have both been 16 years old. true?...
        >
        > thanks for any help...
        >
        > bob chaikin
        > bchaikin@...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


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      • James Milks
        I have no dates for these people, but just want to point out that although TH does have errors, it is remarkably accurate considering the amount of data it
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 1, 2003
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          I have no dates for these people, but just want to point out that
          although TH does have errors, it is remarkably accurate considering the
          amount of data it has. And some of the really old stuff (not these guys)
          is very hard to find. I research players from the 20s and 30s, and
          they're vital stats can be VERY hard to find. TH isn't all that bad.

          J

          -----Original Message-----
          From: George Lloyd [mailto:gjlhome@...]
          Sent: March 1, 2003 10:35 AM
          To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [hockhist] youngest players in NHL


          I've never been a fan of Total Hockey because of all the mistakes made
          in it.

          In some of my older Hockey Registers put out by Sporting news, the birth
          dates are as follows:

          Tom Williams 2-7-51
          Dave Kryskow 12-25-1951
          Dave Hrechkosy 11-1-1951

          George

          --- "bchaikin1 <bchaikin@...>" <bchaikin@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > going thru total hockey (1998 ed) i noticed the vast majority of
          > players who made NHL debuts at age 17 or younger occurred during WWII
          >
          > (understandably). but a few other players, based on their birthdates
          > listed in total hockey, also made very early debuts....
          >
          > total hockey lists tom c. williams of the 71-72 new york rangers as
          > having a b-day of 2-7-1957, which would mean he would have been all
          > of 14 years old when he made his nhl debut. anyone know if this is
          > true (or if it's a total hockey incorrect b-day date)? if so was this
          >
          > a big deal at the time that a 14 year old was playing in the nhl?...
          >
          > also dave kryskow made his nhl debut for the 72-73 chicago
          > blackhawks. his total hockey b-day is listed as 12-25-1957, which
          > would mean he was 15 years old at the time. anyone know if this is
          > true and again if it was a big deal at the time?...
          >
          > plus dave hrechkosy of the 73-74 california golden seals (b-day lised
          >
          > as 11-01-1957) and chris speyer of the 23-24 toonto st.patricks (b-
          > day listed as 2-6-1907) would have both been 16 years old. true?...
          >
          > thanks for any help...
          >
          > bob chaikin
          > bchaikin@...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


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        • John Matthew IV
          ... Putting out such a huge book is an enormous challenge. To entirely dismiss it because of the mistakes in it does a disservice to those who undertook the
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 1, 2003
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            George Lloyd wrote:

            > I've never been a fan of Total Hockey because of all the mistakes made
            > in it.

            Putting out such a huge book is an enormous challenge. To entirely dismiss
            it because of the mistakes in it does a disservice to those who undertook
            the challenge. Instead, let the authors know of the errors and future
            volumes will be better for it.

            It is easy criticize and harder to create.

            John Matthew IV
          • Houda
            (Bob wrote) going thru total hockey (1998 ed) i noticed the vast majority of players who made NHL debuts at age 17 or younger occurred during WWII
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 1, 2003
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              (Bob wrote)
              going thru total hockey (1998 ed) i noticed the vast majority of
              players who made NHL debuts at age 17 or younger occurred during WWII
              (understandably). but a few other players, based on their birthdates
              listed in total hockey, also made very early debuts....

              ---> Hi Bob,

              Below in this response I have a list over the 10 youngest NHL'ers ever.
              I did an article on rookies for an NHL- magazine over here in Europe
              two years ago, so the list comes from my article.

              Like George said, the birthdates for Williams,Kryskow and Hrechkosy
              were all printing errors in TH. (Williams and Hrechkosy were corrected in TH-2)
              George also correctly points out that there were a bunch of errors in TH,
              which is understandable given the share volume of the book and all the
              stats in it.

              I agree with John, it's easy to criticize and harder to create.
              When I bought TH I saw that there were a lot of stats missing in the book.
              I was one of many people who helped out in the stats department to
              improve the second edition of the book.
              And if you compare TH and TH-2 then I think it's pretty obvious that many
              mistakes were corrected and thousands of new lines of stats were added.
              TH-2 is definitely an improvement over the first edition IMO.
              James Duplacey and Ernie Fitzimmons did a hell'uva job with the stats.


              1st year Age in 1st NHL game

              1. Armand "Bep" Guidolin (Boston) 1942-43 16 y, 11 m, 3 d

              2. Chris "Duke" Speyer (Toronto St.Pats) 1923-24 17 y, 17 d

              3. Joseph Schmidt (Boston) 1943-44 17 y, 1 m, 2 d

              4. Harry "Apple Cheeks" Lumley (Detroit) 1943-44 17 y, 1 m, 8 d

              5. Eric "Doc" Prentice (Toronto) 1943-44 17 y, 2 m, 8 d

              6. Ted "Teeder" Kennedy (Toronto) 1942-43 17 y, 2 m, 23 d

              7. Len Wharton (NY Rangers) 1944-45 17 y, 3 m, 5 d

              8. Don "Bones" Raleigh (NY Rangers) 1943-44 17 y, 4 m, 9 d

              9. Jack Hamilton (Toronto) 1942-43 17 y, 4 m, 29 d

              10. Ross Johnstone (Toronto) 1943-44 17 y, 6 m, 23 d

              Pat
            • Marc Foster
              ... We (the list) did that, and the resulting TH2 is *much* better than TH, which is what the original poster was using. Heck I found a half-dozen clear
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 1, 2003
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                John Matthew IV wrote:
                >
                > George Lloyd wrote:
                >
                > > I've never been a fan of Total Hockey because of all the mistakes made
                > > in it.
                >
                > Putting out such a huge book is an enormous challenge. To entirely
                > dismiss
                > it because of the mistakes in it does a disservice to those who undertook
                > the challenge. Instead, let the authors know of the errors and future
                > volumes will be better for it.

                We (the list) did that, and the resulting TH2 is *much* better than TH,
                which is what the original poster was using. Heck I found a half-dozen
                clear errors in my first bathroom sitting with TH.

                Marc
              • bchaikin1 <bchaikin@bballsports.com>
                let the authors know of the errors and future volumes will be better for it. We (the list) did that, and the resulting TH2 is *much* better than TH, which is
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 1, 2003
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                  let the authors know of the errors and future volumes will be better
                  for it.

                  We (the list) did that, and the resulting TH2 is *much* better than
                  TH, which is what the original poster was using. Heck I found a half-
                  dozen clear errors in my first bathroom sitting with TH.

                  Marc


                  any chance i could get (or purchase) from you a listing of all the
                  errors/corrections you and others in this group found in TH 1?
                  comparing fischler's encyclopedia with TH 1 i've found over a couple
                  hundred differences (and not always knowing which is correct, if
                  either is correct), especially in the playoff data for earlier
                  players. it seems especially for the early seasons (prior to about
                  1930) there were a number of changes made, particularly in games
                  played, points scored as either goals or assists (but same total
                  points scored), and especially in penalty minutes accrued. i'd rather
                  not have to buy TH 2 and "look" for the changes if someone else has
                  already done that...

                  also the TGF / PGF / TGA / PGA listed in TH 1 used to calculate the
                  +/- stat i have not seen anywhere else. was this info taken directly
                  from original game sheets or was some other body of work published
                  that had these stats? if so is this available anywhere (like on the
                  internet someplace), and especially for the past couple of seasons
                  since TH 2 came out?..

                  bob chaikin
                  bchaikin@...
                • Lloyd Davis
                  ... Indeed, at this point I m not sure what impresses me more: the improvements of TH2 over the first edition, or the fact that Marc considers Total Hockey to
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 1, 2003
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                    on 3/1/03 11:25 AM, Marc Foster at mfoster@... wrote:

                    > Heck I found a half-dozen
                    > clear errors in my first bathroom sitting with TH.

                    Indeed, at this point I'm not sure what impresses me more: the improvements
                    of TH2 over the first edition, or the fact that Marc considers Total Hockey
                    to be bathroom reading!

                    Never having been the home-improvement/basement-workshop type, I can only
                    wonder how long it took to drill a hole through the top left-hand corner of
                    your copy!

                    --
                    Lloyd Davis
                    Lloyd Davis Publishing Services
                    201-488 Danforth Avenue
                    Toronto, ON M4K 1P6
                    416 465 6999 /// 416 462 0230 (fax)
                    ldavis2@...
                  • Marc Foster
                    ... I prefer reference materials - things I can devote to memory through rote techniques... Not that I ve ever been much for fiction - alamanacs and atlases
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 1, 2003
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                      Lloyd Davis wrote:

                      > Indeed, at this point I'm not sure what impresses me more: the
                      > improvements of TH2 over the first edition, or the fact that Marc
                      > considers Total Hockey to be bathroom reading!

                      I prefer reference materials - things I can devote to memory through rote
                      techniques... Not that I've ever been much for fiction - alamanacs and
                      atlases are definitely at the top of my list.

                      > Never having been the home-improvement/basement-workshop type, I can only
                      > wonder how long it took to drill a hole through the top left-hand corner
                      > of your copy!

                      I've got some good drills and bits, such that I could probably slap it in my
                      vise and have a clean hole in thirty seconds flat. But the stack of
                      materials on the toilet usually reaches a point every few weeks that the
                      libr... err, my wife re-stacks them on my bookshelf.

                      So what I really need is to build some shelves in the bathroom. :)

                      Marc
                    • Dave HTL
                      ... ever. Just wondering... 9 of those on Pat s list were from the war years. As the original post said, it would be interesting to know who the youngest ones
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 8, 2003
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                        --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Houda" <patrick.houda@m...> wrote:
                        > Below in this response I have a list over the 10 youngest NHL'ers
                        ever.


                        Just wondering... 9 of those on Pat's list were from the war years.
                        As the original post said, it would be interesting to know who the
                        youngest ones were, exclusive of the war years. Personally, I would
                        be interested in the post 1945 list. With the development of farm
                        systems, anyone young who made the grade post 1945 must really have
                        a story behind them!

                        Dave
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