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Re: Rocket Richard and the WHA

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  • Jeff Chapman
    Thanks Kenneth. I was about to become the first person on the history of this list to answer his own question. Just found the answer. Thanks again. J Jeff
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 14, 1999
      Thanks Kenneth. I was about to become the first person on the history of this
      list to answer his own question. Just found the answer. Thanks again.

      J



      Jeff Chapman
      Chapman Sports Research
      jchap@...

      WATCH FOR ULTIMATE HOCKEY......Fall 1999
    • Kenneth R. Holdren
      ... history of this list to answer his own question. Just found the ... *** No problem. Being on the list has pointed me in the direction of some good hockey
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 15, 1999
        On 2/14/99--Jeff wrote:

        >Thanks Kenneth. I was about to become the >first person on the
        history of this list >to answer his own question. Just found the
        >answer. Thanks again.

        ***

        No problem. Being on the list has pointed me in the direction of some
        good hockey books that I would have never heard about any other way.

        Your question brings up one on my part. The book where I found the
        info ("Same Game, Different Name--The History of the World Hockey
        Association by Jack Lautier and Frank Polnaszek) states that Richard
        was not satisfied with the quality of players in the brand new WHA.

        Any thoughts on which statement might be closer to the truth...

        1. The WHA did a great sales job on Richard to get him to coach the
        Nordiques, which he saw through almost immediately.

        2. Richard was blinded by the fact that he wanted to prove to the
        Canadiens that he could be moe than a "goodwill ambassador" and
        realized his mistake almost immediately.







        ==
        Kenneth (krholdren@...)

        Proud supporter of the Tallahassee Tiger Sharks and Georgia hockey!!!

        "It's a great day for hockey."
        --Badger Bob Johnson
      • Jeff Chapman
        A while back we had a discussion on Rocket Richard and him coaching the Quebec Nordiques. Kenneth wondered why Richard would only coach for a couple of games
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 21, 1999
          A while back we had a discussion on Rocket Richard and him coaching the
          Quebec Nordiques.

          Kenneth wondered why Richard would only coach for a couple of games and
          then leave. He wondered what statement would be closer to the truth.

          1) WHA doing a great job on selling Richard on coaching, which he saw
          through immediately.

          2) Richard was blinded by the fact that he wanted to prove to the Canadiens
          that he could be more than a "goodwill ambassador" and realized his mistake
          almost immediately.

          It was probably a combination of things. If I had to choose one, I would pick
          option #1.

          Great players hardly ever make good coaches (Larry Bird and Lenny Wilkens in
          basketball notable exceptions, along with Toe Blake). Look at Ted Williams
          and his managerial career. Great players often get frustrated when coaching,
          because the players he's coaching are not as talented as the coach once was.
          Furthermore, the game often came so easily to the superstars that they are in
          tough when trying to explain and teach the game to others. Those players who
          had to work at the game, at all aspects of the game, are often its best coaches.

          Richard claimed, after leaving the Nords, that "his heart wasn't into coaching",
          which is why I tend to lean towards the "WHA sales job" argument. If he had
          wanted to prove to the Habs that he could be more than an ambassador, he
          would have given coaching more than two games. Richard was such a
          determined individual that, if he wanted to prove a point, he would have gone to
          great lengths to accomplish it.

          Just my two cents...

          J



          Jeff Chapman
          Chapman Sports Research
          jchap@...

          WATCH FOR ULTIMATE HOCKEY......Fall 1999
        • Kenneth R. Holdren
          ... Wilkens in basketball notable exceptions, along with Toe Blake). Look at Ted Williams and his managerial career. Great players often get frustrated
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 21, 1999
            >Great players hardly ever make good >coaches (Larry Bird and Lenny
            Wilkens in >basketball notable exceptions, along with >Toe Blake).
            Look at Ted Williams and his >managerial career. Great players often
            get >frustrated when coaching, because the >players he's coaching are
            not as talented >as the coach once was. Furthermore, the >game often
            came so easily to the >superstars that they are in tough when >trying
            to explain and teach the game to >others. Those players who had to
            work at >the game, at all aspects of the game, are >often its best
            coaches.

            ***

            Well, Ted Williams was coaching the Washington Senators. That would
            frustrate anyone. 8-)

            I agree with your position. The good managers/head coaches in all
            sports are usually the role player that rode the bench more than
            played. They had a chance to watch the action and learn the patterns
            and details of coaching, rather than always playing the game.

            Other than Toe Blake, who would be considered good to great players
            that would be consider successful NHL coaches.

            ***


            >Richard claimed, after leaving the Nords, >that "his heart wasn't
            into coaching", >which is why I tend to lean towards the >"WHA sales
            job" argument. If he had wanted >to prove to the Habs that he could be
            more >than an ambassador, he would have given >coaching more than two
            games. Richard was >such a determined individual that, if he >wanted
            to prove a point, he would have >gone to great lengths to accomplish it.

            ***

            Anyone have a listing of the coaches for the WHA teams in that first
            season and their successes on the ice?


            Thanks Jeff.

            8-)





            ==
            Kenneth (krholdren@...)

            Proud supporter of the Tallahassee Tiger Sharks and Georgia hockey!!!

            "It's a great day for hockey."
            --Badger Bob Johnson
          • Joe Nix
            I agree with Jeff s points about natural players vis a vis coaching. It showed up in minor hockey, particularly under Bantam age. The ability to
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 21, 1999
              I agree with Jeff's points about 'natural players' vis a vis coaching. It showed
              up in minor hockey, particularly under Bantam age.

              The ability to 'communicate' effectively and recognize players proficiency are
              of course major factors.

              Players who come from behind in learning the game, that is without some
              exceptional talents, the guys who are studying moves and opportunities from
              the minor hockey days on and who play at a level for at least a few years
              which one might term 'over their heads', have the greatest in depth learning
              opportunities.





              =======

              ICE HOCKEY in Springdale, Arkansas
              http://www.mo-net.com/~nixit/hockey.html
              with Joe Nix's selection of history and
              amateur links
            • Miriam Jones
              Well, certainly not up to the NHL level yet, but one I expect to see there eventually is Rick Vaive, the guy who replaced Sittler as Captain of the Leafs.
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 22, 1999
                Well, certainly not up to the NHL level yet, but one I expect to see there eventually is Rick
                Vaive, the guy who replaced Sittler as Captain of the Leafs.

                Started his coaching career with the ECHL and built a championship team in four years and has
                moved up to the AHL. There's no debate about his motivation and goals... ask him and he'll tell
                you with the same single-minded determination he played with "I'm going to win a Stanley Cup as a
                Coach" and he laughed when he said it, adding, "along with the Kelly Cup and Calder Cup first"

                It may take him a while, but I'd say 'keep an eye on him'. He's a man on a mission <g>

                Stranger

                "Kenneth R. Holdren" wrote:

                > Other than Toe Blake, who would be considered good to great players
                > that would be consider successful NHL coaches.
                >
                > ***
              • James Karkoski
                From: Kenneth R. Holdren ... 1972-73 WHA Chicago Cougars Coach Marcel Pronovost 26 50 2 1972-73 WHA Alberta Oilers Coach Ray
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 23, 1999
                  From: "Kenneth R. Holdren" <krholdren@...>

                  >
                  >Anyone have a listing of the coaches for the WHA teams in that first
                  >season and their successes on the ice?

                  1972-73 WHA Chicago Cougars Coach Marcel Pronovost 26 50 2
                  1972-73 WHA Alberta Oilers Coach Ray Kinasewich 38 37 3 0 1
                  1972-73 WHA Minnesota Fighting Saints Coach-1 & GM Glen Sonmor 28 28 3
                  1972-73 WHA Minnesota Fighting
                  Saints Coach-2 Harry Neale 10 9 0 2 4 became coach on Feb.16
                  1972-73 WHA Los Angeles Sharks Coach Terry Slater 37 35 6 2 4
                  1972-73 WHA Houston Aeros Coach Bill Dineen 39 35 4 4 6
                  1972-73 WHA Winnipeg Jets Coach-2 Bobby Hull 36 25 3 9 5 injunction
                  preventing Hull from coaching lifted on Nov.7
                  1972-73 WHA Winnipeg Jets Coach-1 & Asst. Coach Nick Mickoski
                  7 6 1 interim coach until Nov.7
                  1972-73 WHA New York Raiders Coach Camille Henry 33 43 2
                  1972-73 WHA Quebec Nordiques Coach-1 Maurice Richard 1 1 0 quit on
                  Oct.15
                  1972-73 WHA Quebec Nordiques Coach-2 Maurice Filion 32 39 5
                  1972-73 WHA Ottawa Nationals Coach Billy Harris 35 39 4 1 4
                  1972-73 WHA Philadelphia Blazers Coach-1 John McKenzie 1 7 0
                  1972-73 WHA Philadelphia Blazers Coach-2 &
                  GM-2 Phil Watson 37 33 0 0 4 became coach after Oct.27 game
                  1972-73 WHA Cleveland Crusaders Coach Bill Needham 43 32 3 5 4
                  1972-73 WHA New England Whalers Coach & GM Jack Kelley 46 30 2 12 3


                  Sources: Scott Surgent's WHA book & "Same Game, Different Name" Book


                  James
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