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Any lawyers here

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  • Ralph Slate
    I m currently involved in a legal issue which could ultimately threaten hockeydb.com. I have a current player who is mad that his statistics are publically
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 1, 2001
      I'm currently involved in a legal issue which could ultimately threaten hockeydb.com. I have a current player who is mad that his statistics are publically available. He claims that the information I have on him is incorrect, so I should take it down. I told him that I would gladly correct anything that was in error (I double-checked my numbers vs. the official records and they matched), but he stood firm, take down his numbers or he'd sue me. I finally got him to provide me with numbers he claimed were correct, and they were blatantly inflated -- he's obviously lying to teams, and the teams are looking the info up on hockeydb and are calling him on it.

      He must truly believe in his mind that his statistics are correct -- otherwise he wouldn't push this far.

      Anyway, I've just been in a conversation with his lawyer (who appears to be his brother), and he has said that I don't have permission to list this guy on my site, so I should take the stats down.

      I imagine that even if I take the stats down, he will then be mad because teams won't be able to find information on this player, and they'll assume that everything he says is a lie.

      I have to think that the only recourse that will make this guy happy is if no such information is available on any hockey player. That will allow him to lie as much as he wants and no one can check on him.

      I strongly believe that I'm on firm legal ground, but that is meaningless these days, especially when you have a brother for a lawyer. If this guy sues me, I won't be able to take time off work and go to Canada to defend myself.

      First, I don't believe that permission is needed to publish public facts about someone. Since all information about this guy was derived from public sources, I would say that I'm only publishing public facts about him. They claim that he may have given consent to the leagues to publish information about him, but he did not give it to me.

      Next, I believe that publishing facts that I know to be incorrect can get me in even bigger trouble. I can't omit him from the books because that would be an incorrect fact.

      Finally, I need someone to tell me what recourse I have if this guy sues me in Canadian court? Can I send in documentation in my defense without appearing or retaining a lawyer? I know I'm right, and I'm willing to fight, but like I said, I can't fly to Canada to defend myself. Could he actually win a decision that dictates that my site, based in the US, be taken down, or would this decision apply only in Canada, and he wouldn't be able to collect on me because I live in the US?

      Any info on this would be a big help. Thanks!

      Ralph
      http://www.hockeydb.com
    • David Stewart-Candy
      This guy sounds like an idiot! If I were you, I d ignore his lawyer and make his sorry-assed name available for all to see. Plus I would send copies of his
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 1, 2001
        This guy sounds like an idiot!

        If I were you, I'd ignore his lawyer and make his
        sorry-assed name available for all to see. Plus I
        would send copies of his 'claims' and your evidence to
        every team under the sun. If he's gonna make life
        tough for you, then do can do the same in reverse.
        Who'd sign him if he's such trouble over nothing!?!

        This guy is a f***ing moron. I wonder if he's one of
        those players out there that claim he's had
        such-and-such a career but hasn't done more than skate
        a few laps around the community rink.

        Heck, maybe he even played in the NAHL!!!

        All the power to you Ralph!

        D!

        > I'm currently involved in a legal issue which could
        > ultimately threaten hockeydb.com.

        =====
        David Stewart-Candy
        International Ice Hockey Almanac
        Canadian Lacrosse Almanac
        Vancouver, British Columbia

        "The more pro sports I watch, the more I want to watch and support amateur sports."

        _______________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.ca
      • Jason Kasiorek
        Hi Ralph, My wife talked to the internet IP attorney, and he agreed that there was no case. Apparently a lot of the work that Rocco Galati has done (at least
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 2, 2001
          Hi Ralph,

          My wife talked to the internet IP attorney, and he agreed that there was no
          case.

          Apparently a lot of the work that Rocco Galati has done (at least what was
          quickly available on the internet) was less than positive. He had quite a
          few cases that he brought suit with, and lost big. Very derogatory
          statements about him wasting the courts time etc., so it looks like he is
          not afraid to push things to get his name in the paper even if he knows he
          won't win.

          The attorney did say however to make sure and save all copies of
          correspondence especially the one where you told his attorney that if you
          were provided with documented evidence of the alleged inaccuracies, you
          would make changes. That document (even if its just a copy of the email) is
          very important should he try to bring suit against you.

          Hope this helps,


          Jason Kasiorek
          WHA Oilers Site
          http://members.hockeyresearch.com/jkasiorek/


          > From: "Ralph Slate" <slater@...>
          > Reply-To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:34:42 -0400
          > To: <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: [hockhist] Any lawyers here
          >
          > I'm currently involved in a legal issue which could ultimately threaten
          > hockeydb.com. I have a current player who is mad that his statistics are
          > publically available. He claims that the information I have on him is
          > incorrect, so I should take it down. I told him that I would gladly correct
          > anything that was in error (I double-checked my numbers vs. the official
          > records and they matched), but he stood firm, take down his numbers or he'd
          > sue me. I finally got him to provide me with numbers he claimed were correct,
          > and they were blatantly inflated -- he's obviously lying to teams, and the
          > teams are looking the info up on hockeydb and are calling him on it.
          >
          > He must truly believe in his mind that his statistics are correct -- otherwise
          > he wouldn't push this far.
          >
          > Anyway, I've just been in a conversation with his lawyer (who appears to be
          > his brother), and he has said that I don't have permission to list this guy on
          > my site, so I should take the stats down.
          >
          > I imagine that even if I take the stats down, he will then be mad because
          > teams won't be able to find information on this player, and they'll assume
          > that everything he says is a lie.
          >
          > I have to think that the only recourse that will make this guy happy is if no
          > such information is available on any hockey player. That will allow him to lie
          > as much as he wants and no one can check on him.
          >
          > I strongly believe that I'm on firm legal ground, but that is meaningless
          > these days, especially when you have a brother for a lawyer. If this guy sues
          > me, I won't be able to take time off work and go to Canada to defend myself.
          >
          > First, I don't believe that permission is needed to publish public facts about
          > someone. Since all information about this guy was derived from public sources,
          > I would say that I'm only publishing public facts about him. They claim that
          > he may have given consent to the leagues to publish information about him, but
          > he did not give it to me.
          >
          > Next, I believe that publishing facts that I know to be incorrect can get me
          > in even bigger trouble. I can't omit him from the books because that would be
          > an incorrect fact.
          >
          > Finally, I need someone to tell me what recourse I have if this guy sues me in
          > Canadian court? Can I send in documentation in my defense without appearing or
          > retaining a lawyer? I know I'm right, and I'm willing to fight, but like I
          > said, I can't fly to Canada to defend myself. Could he actually win a decision
          > that dictates that my site, based in the US, be taken down, or would this
          > decision apply only in Canada, and he wouldn't be able to collect on me
          > because I live in the US?
          >
          > Any info on this would be a big help. Thanks!
          >
          > Ralph
          > http://www.hockeydb.com
          >
          >
          >
          > This has been a Hockey History List mailing
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          >
        • Ralph Slate
          ... Hi Jason -- Thanks! Your replies were the most useful -- they confirmed what I suspected, that he doesn t really have a case, and that his lawyer is a bit
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 2, 2001
            >My wife talked to the internet IP attorney, and he agreed that there was no
            >case.
            >
            >Apparently a lot of the work that Rocco Galati has done (at least what was
            >quickly available on the internet) was less than positive. He had quite a
            >few cases that he brought suit with, and lost big. Very derogatory
            >statements about him wasting the courts time etc., so it looks like he is
            >not afraid to push things to get his name in the paper even if he knows he
            >won't win.
            >
            >The attorney did say however to make sure and save all copies of
            >correspondence especially the one where you told his attorney that if you
            >were provided with documented evidence of the alleged inaccuracies, you
            >would make changes. That document (even if its just a copy of the email) is
            >very important should he try to bring suit against you.
            >

            Hi Jason --

            Thanks! Your replies were the most useful -- they confirmed what I suspected, that he doesn't really have a case, and that his lawyer is a bit of a nut. Now I just have to figure out how to get the case dropped from here -- hopefully some Canadian lawyers will help me out. I've been told that since I'm based in the US that he might have to file suit where I am based, or where my server is, although I've heard differing views on that.

            As to the part about the original publications filing suit against me, I doubt they could win that one because in every case I have not duplicated their publications -- I have extracted the data from them and have transformed it. The case Rural v. Feist is the definitive case there, where a company that makes "super phone books" hired people to retype what was contained in multiple local phone books, and was sued for it. The case said that "facts cannot be copyrighted, only their original presentation can be", and that ordering phone numbers alphabetically wasn't original enough to merit a copyright violation.

            Thanks!

            Ralph
          • SensHave20Cups@altavista.com
            ... appears to be his brother (1) I haven t read any of the replies as yet, but first off I would say that using his brother speaks to me more of intimidation
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 3, 2001
              --- In hockhist@y..., "Ralph Slate" <slater@m...> wrote:
              > Anyway, I've just been in a conversation with his lawyer (who
              appears to be his brother

              (1) I haven't read any of the replies as yet, but first off I would
              say that using his brother speaks to me more of intimidation than a
              real intention to sue. Check his brother's specialty - he may have
              passed his bar but not be licenced to practice, or maybe not in that
              specialty. I've been in private business for 20 years as an
              accountant and a dozen times mad clients had a neighbour or relative
              lawyer call me and nothing came of it. So it may be bluffing.

              If you can't track him down lmk and I'll try, I know that bio info is
              available on the web for Canadian lwayers.

              (2) The majority of websites list things pertaining to people,
              places, or things, that are public record, don't they? How are his
              statistics "his"? Doesn't make any sense to me at all.

              (3) You would think that the lawyers specializing in this field would
              have international expertise, wouldn't it be a pre-requisite? There
              must be some lawyers out your way that can advise you, or at least
              ahve associations with Canadian firms? If it comes down to finding
              the cheapest way to present arguements in person in a Canadian court,
              maybe one of us cn go and do whatever your lawyer says is necessary.
              If it's geographically between Ottawa and Toronto lmk, I could always
              use a day off work.
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