Re: Scotty Cameron and HRA
> Wait a second, we formed this organization in part to open theActually, I've only been using TH for reference -- for example, if I
> availability of stats. I think we could score some serious points
> within the hockey community if we, as an organization, got some
> acknowledgements in the next edition. Ralph is already
> supplementing his database with data from Total Hockey anyway... so
> let's practice what we preach.
come across a QMJHL player who may be the same guy who played in
the NHL years later, I'm looking him up.
Again, my beef with TH is that the book was researched by the player.
That's why there are so many little stupid errors in it, for example
the one that James just pointed out. AHA instead of AHL. It might
seem trivial, but the book is littered with such errors.
That's because they didn't type up a whole team's worth of stats,
someone had notecards, one for each player in the NHL. (I'm guessing
this). They have that person's historical stats on the notecard, but
there is no link between the notecard and anything else. That's why
things like leagues and seasons got screwed up -- because each entry
is independent of the others.
And that's why the stats aren't always right; because no error
checking was ever done on them -- they couldn't do any! But the
easiest way to check errors is to add up the goals to see if they
match the number of goals the team scored, and add up the PIM to see
if that adds up to the team's PIM. If they don't, look for problems.
Another way to check is to add up the number of GP and see if they
match 14*number of team games, or whatever the limit of players
is/was. That way you can tell if someone is missing. That's not as
easy to do in the lower leagues because they had player shortages,
but for the most part, if you're off by more than 10 games in the
NHL, there is something wrong.
So that's why I have a beef, I'd be willing to bet that most of the
research done concentrated on the NHL players and ignored the rest of
the minor league/teams they played on.
> Everything has a price Jeff. Offering the corrections would cost usI really don't believe they'd do anything other than bury a 1
> the time and effort, but it obviously has the potential to yield us
> some serious recognition. The powers-that-be at the SIHR would have
> to take notice, as would the NHL and HHoF.
sentence mention in the back of their "Credits" section. Honestly.
Logos, Stats, Cards, and Standings at the
Internet Hockey Database: http://www.hockeydb.com
- Ralph wrote:
> That's because they didn't type up a whole team's worth of stats,This was a good guess in my opinion and Ralph wrote a classic explanation
> someone had notecards, one for each player in the NHL. (I'm guessing
of 'sticking' with and cross checking the source data in statistical gathering. It
brought back my experiences from a decade in 'number crunching' for large
> > serious recognition. The powers-that-be at the SIHR would have to takeReminds me of my patiently recording details from LP record labels versus
> > notice, as would the NHL and HHoF.
> I really don't believe they'd do anything other than bury a 1
> sentence mention in the back of their "Credits" section. Honestly.
sale prices and sending it yearly to Gerry Osborne for 'Rock N Records'.
Gerry credited me and others in his foreward. But guess what? Another
'hobby publisher' stole or 'copied inadvertently' the entire data base and
published it under their name with as Gerry said, 'the same typos' in his
There is a 'law' I believe, that 'labors of love' will provide 'easy pickings' for
those less inclined to 'love'.
ICE HOCKEY in Springdale, Arkansas
with Joe Nix's selection of history and
>From: "Jeff Chapman" <jchap@...>More on Cameron. Brian McFarlane's "60s Years of Hockey" says
>Does anyone have any information on Scotty Cameron? He was a 6'2" center
>who played one year with the Rangers in the early 40s. I know he went into
>service in 1943-44 and played with the New York Ramblers and St. Paul
>Saints, among others, after getting out of the war.
>If I remember correctly, there was some sort of bidding war or controversy
>surrounding him early on in his career.
>Any help in this matter would be appreciated.
"Art Ross & Lester Patrick engaged in a heated pre-season dispute to the
rights to Angus "Scotty" Cameron, a tall center who had played amateur
with th NY Rovers. On Sept.14, Ross walked out on a League Governor's
meeting. A month later he resigned as a League Governor and his
colleagues shed no tears as they accepted his resignation. Calder turned
down his official protest and awarded Cameron to the Rangers."
So, what exactly the dispute was, I don't know, but since it did lead to
Art Ross resiging it should be easy enough to find out, with the dates of
all this stuff given and all in the McFarlane book.
- Include me in that list, too, please?
You can add my email address to the list of folks who want to hear
> the story.
> >That's just why I'm hesitant to "give away" anything at this point.