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Re: Canada vs America

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  • Bill Underwood
    Jim; There were always PLENTY of fans for the nosebleed seats in Quebec. They just wouldn t built a new palace loaded with luxury boxes for M. Aubut. The
    Message 1 of 9 , May 30 4:14 AM
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      Jim;

      There were always PLENTY of fans for the nosebleed seats in Quebec. They just wouldn't built a
      new palace loaded with luxury boxes for M. Aubut. The corporate presenc is a problem in markets
      like that! I saw Nord fans stick with that team throught the pits! Yes there were Montreal fans
      in Quebec, but most were hockey fans above all. And it's funny that you mention Montreal fans. In
      Montreal, I remeber runnin g into a legion of nordique fans ESPECIALLY in the Fench community.
      Interestingly enough there was also a poll doen at the time, where the Bloc Quebeccois got most
      of the votes in elections, the Nordiques were more popular than the Habs and the reverse was true
      in other areas. It seems that the Nordiques had gotten the image of being "the real French team".
      Rmember, our jersey was basically a provincial flag, and we stressed that image. Montreal had
      largwely English players at the time and was considerd the team of "the Establishment". Thus we
      also had a lot of young fans! Plus, Quebec had always had a bit of animosity toward Montreal as a
      city. It was the provincial capital and smaller. Montreal had "stolen" Jean Beliveau. It also was
      the seat of Anglo power in Quebec, where most of the great French politicains of the '50's and
      60's were Quebec based. Yet Montreal seemingly got all of the attention! There was also the sense
      that Montreal had become very influenced by American and English cultutre and that Quebec city
      was the real bastion of French Canada. As a Freench Canadian colleague once said ( a well
      educated Monrtrealer) "Quebec city is coming home for the French people". So no, Nord fans did
      NOT jumop ship to Montreal, in fact they never jumped ship on the team period. It was refusing to
      sign on with tax extortion! It was also a lack of multi nationals whcih are the face of todays
      NHL thanks to it's insistance on operating on unrealistic budgets that did in the Nords!

      On the other hand, your dead right about the Islanders. Their woes can be traced right to the day
      they stopped winning! And as for the minors, you're dead right too, they are the fan's leagues!

      Bill Underwood

      James Karkoski wrote:

      > From: James Karkoski <austin@...>
      >
      > >From: Joe Pelletier <fuzzymonkey@...>
      > >
      > >> The problem with this Joe is that of you want to have "pro hockey" then
      > >> you have got to have "fans" to watch it.
      > >
      > >Thats never been the problem and you know it. The problem in Winnipeg
      > >and Quebec and sooner or later Edmonton, Calgary and Ottawa is that
      > >there isn't enough corporate support. Lets face it, NHL arena's aren't
      > >filled with fans, but "corporate fans." Many real fans can't afford to
      > >go to a NHL game, be it in Canada or America. Canadian cities also
      > >don't have government support either. There's no lack of fan support.
      >
      > Actually, I was speaking more in a historical sense than the modern one.
      >
      > I disagree with the corporate thing. Having lived through an era where
      > there were alot of empty seats in both the NHL and WHA and there were
      > only 53 teams in all of pro hockey (1975-76 counting the teams which
      > folded during the year) at least someone or something is buying tickets
      > now.
      >
      > Compare that with the 134 pro teams which were in existence last year,
      > and if corporations are buying the NHL tickets then aren't the fans
      > buying the minor league ones?
      >
      > How many kids show up at minor league games these days??
      >
      > I think one of the problems in Quebec, etc, Hartford, NY Islanders is
      > that in every one in of these places there are many secondary fans of the
      > teams. Before the Nordiques everyone was a Canadiens fan etc... and when
      > the intial excitement of having an NHL team wears away and the teams
      > keeps losing, then the fans who buy the nosebleed seats stop going and
      > start following their first team from afar like they did before. When
      > that goes on long enough the owner then wants to move to a place where he
      > thinks he will sell the nosebleed seats.
      >
      > For the more established teams like the Bruins etc.. simply a competitive
      > year seems to turn the fans back.
      >
      > >Sure. The NHL is a North American game. Its not a game, itsa corporation too.
      > Fact is,
      > >hockey is bigger than the NHL.
      >
      > When you start making 14 year kids turn pro (in a sense), I guess that
      > would make the game as big as life itself. Just because I don't agree
      > with the commitment doesn't mean I can't understand it.
      >
      > >> I have always found it kind of strange that a country which has always
      > >> thought of itself as "multicultural" could be so "monocultural" when it
      > >> came to one sport.
      > >
      > >We like curling too!
      >
      > So does Denmark and Sweden if I remember correctly.
      >
      > Oh, Ryan Stewart couldn't have played in Japan, they wouldn't let imports
      > over here from early 80s until the mid 90s.
      >
      > James
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    • Bill Underwood
      Jim; One other point, 14 year olds weren t really signed by the NHL. Their rights were picked up by the myriad of agreements. This is not totally unlike the
      Message 2 of 9 , May 30 4:20 AM
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        Jim;

        One other point, 14 year olds weren't really signed by the NHL. Their rights were picked up by
        the myriad of agreements. This is not totally unlike the teenage phenoms that were signed in
        baseball during the same era in the US. At the time, the US public tought that this was great! It
        was our great sponsorship system, in fact my grandfather was one of them, and never saw a day
        outside of low minor semi pro ball! So the cultural statement goes for both sides iof the border.
        What about the mere children buried in the Yankee and Cardinal systems of the day. Canadians
        weree no more inscrupulous than us! They just diod it more with pucks than baseballs!

        Bill Underwood

        James Karkoski wrote:

        > From: James Karkoski <austin@...>
        >
        > >From: Joe Pelletier <fuzzymonkey@...>
        > >
        > >> The problem with this Joe is that of you want to have "pro hockey" then
        > >> you have got to have "fans" to watch it.
        > >
        > >Thats never been the problem and you know it. The problem in Winnipeg
        > >and Quebec and sooner or later Edmonton, Calgary and Ottawa is that
        > >there isn't enough corporate support. Lets face it, NHL arena's aren't
        > >filled with fans, but "corporate fans." Many real fans can't afford to
        > >go to a NHL game, be it in Canada or America. Canadian cities also
        > >don't have government support either. There's no lack of fan support.
        >
        > Actually, I was speaking more in a historical sense than the modern one.
        >
        > I disagree with the corporate thing. Having lived through an era where
        > there were alot of empty seats in both the NHL and WHA and there were
        > only 53 teams in all of pro hockey (1975-76 counting the teams which
        > folded during the year) at least someone or something is buying tickets
        > now.
        >
        > Compare that with the 134 pro teams which were in existence last year,
        > and if corporations are buying the NHL tickets then aren't the fans
        > buying the minor league ones?
        >
        > How many kids show up at minor league games these days??
        >
        > I think one of the problems in Quebec, etc, Hartford, NY Islanders is
        > that in every one in of these places there are many secondary fans of the
        > teams. Before the Nordiques everyone was a Canadiens fan etc... and when
        > the intial excitement of having an NHL team wears away and the teams
        > keeps losing, then the fans who buy the nosebleed seats stop going and
        > start following their first team from afar like they did before. When
        > that goes on long enough the owner then wants to move to a place where he
        > thinks he will sell the nosebleed seats.
        >
        > For the more established teams like the Bruins etc.. simply a competitive
        > year seems to turn the fans back.
        >
        > >Sure. The NHL is a North American game. Its not a game, itsa corporation too.
        > Fact is,
        > >hockey is bigger than the NHL.
        >
        > When you start making 14 year kids turn pro (in a sense), I guess that
        > would make the game as big as life itself. Just because I don't agree
        > with the commitment doesn't mean I can't understand it.
        >
        > >> I have always found it kind of strange that a country which has always
        > >> thought of itself as "multicultural" could be so "monocultural" when it
        > >> came to one sport.
        > >
        > >We like curling too!
        >
        > So does Denmark and Sweden if I remember correctly.
        >
        > Oh, Ryan Stewart couldn't have played in Japan, they wouldn't let imports
        > over here from early 80s until the mid 90s.
        >
        > James
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > With more than 17 million e-mails exchanged daily...
        > http://www.onelist.com
        > ...ONElist is THE place where the world talks!
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > This has been a Hockey History List mailing
        > <A HREF=http://www.enol.com/~liebmann/hockey/hockhist.htm>Our Homepage</A>
        > The Hockey History List is the official mailing list of the Hockey Research Association (HRA)
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