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51832Re: Basketball HOF vs Hockey HOF (was: Recognition for hockey's fem

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  • craig_1965ca
    Jan 1, 2008
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      Chantel,

      Thanks for the kind words.

      Your situation was exactly what I saw growing up. Many of my friends
      liked hockey and would have loved to play. And with one execption (a
      very small league in the city where I lived that to be honest wasn't
      very good either and no longer exists)they could not. There was no
      girls leagues - I guess it wasn't considered "feminine" for girls to
      play hockey at the time. I played in that before mentioned league and
      we did have a female player by the name of Karen. She was a wonderful
      skater, handled the puck well and played physically. She was our best
      center and yet after playing the 1975-76 season with us she was too
      old to stay in the league and no other league would take her as she
      was a girl. That was my first experience with discrimination and it
      has stuck with me. I don't like people getting "screwed" and that is
      what happened in the past.

      Bill makes many excellent points when he points out the many
      desearving men who are not in the HHOF. However I do believe that
      with the growth of the World Championships and Olympics and female
      hockey across the world that the HHOF should create a seperate female
      category. That way there is no perception of a fmeale taking a male
      spot in the hall. They would be totally seperate and distinct.

      Craig



      --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "Chantel" <chantel66@...> wrote:
      >
      > Craig -
      >
      >
      >
      > You said it far more eloquently than I could. My comments come from
      growing
      > up in Michigan and being denied the pleasure of playing hockey,
      even with my
      > cousins, because of my gender. So, I have channeled that love of
      the game
      > into research and watching the game. If I had lived in Ontario,
      maybe things
      > would have been different, thanks to women like her.
      >
      >
      >
      > Chantel
      >
      >
      >
      > From: hockhist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hockhist@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf
      > Of craig_1965ca
      > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 7:43 PM
      > To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [hockhist] Re: Basketball HOF vs Hockey HOF (was:
      Recognition for
      > hockey's fem
      >
      >
      >
      > Chantel,
      >
      > I agree with you 100% here. Just to emphasize I am reposting a note
      I
      > put out on Christmas Eve that I thought (perhaps wrongly) summed
      things
      > up fairly well.
      >
      > Craig
      >
      > Bill,
      >
      > Let me approach this in a slightly different way. First your points
      > are all quite valid when you speak about people like Bill Hunter,
      > Dave Branch, etc and the sacrifices many men have made to grow the
      > game in both the US and Canada. Nobody could argue that with you.
      >
      > But looking back at Fran Rider we need to ask ourselves an important
      > question. What was the status or "shape" of women's hockey before
      she
      > got involved and what is the status of it now? Let's think about
      > that. When I was growing up there were no girls leagues. My friends
      > had no place that they could play hockey - if they wanted to.
      > Talented girls where banned in many cases from playing with boys -
      > not becouse they were not good enough - all becouse of their gender.
      > One team I played with when I was 11 had a very talented female
      > player - she was the best center on our team. But the next year her
      > playing days were over all because she was female - no league would
      > allow her to play with boys and there was no female league for her
      to
      > play in.
      >
      > Due to people like Fran Rider that has changed. There are many girls
      > leagues out there. Women now have their own World Championships and
      > play in the Olympics. All this has been done in a period of 30 odd
      > years. The sport has exploded to incompass the other half of the
      > human race. Bill, that is an amazing feat - one that is surely as
      > prominent and worthy of recognition in the Hall of Fame as any other
      > builder.
      >
      > We cannot compare womens' and mens' hockey nor should we. I agree
      > with you - have a seperate category but it is time that women's
      > hockey is fully recognized in the Hall with their builders, stars,
      > etc. After all it is not the "NHL Hall of Fame" - it is the "Hockey
      > Hall of Fame." (Before you mention it I agree with you that it is
      > appalling that so many European stars have been passed over by the
      > Hall.)
      >
      > Craig
      >
      > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:hockhist%
      40yahoogroups.com> ,
      > "Chantel Cummings" <chantel66@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > So what ARE the requirements to get into the hall in your
      opinion? Can
      > > you honestly say that players from the 1930s or 1950s are at the
      same
      > > skill level as today's players? What about how much the game has
      > > changed over time? The changes implemented, from new teams to the
      > > instigator penalty, have all changed the game exponentially. All
      these
      > > posts are comparing apples and oranges. Since there are already
      > > different criteria for entry - player, builder, official,
      announcer -
      > > I don't see the problem. Cammi Granato may not have been one of
      the
      > > greatest players in the game, but she and Hayley Wickenheiser
      > > certainly opened up the game to girls and women. For that alone -
      > > making a valuable contribution to the game - I would say they
      merit
      > > entry to the hall.
      > >
      > > Chantel Cummings
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
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