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51494Re: 1984-85 NHL Goaltenders: Froese, Lindbergh, and Credited Losses

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  • dsreyn
    Aug 1, 2007
      I thought hockey bases winning and losing goalies on who is in net at
      the time of the last lead change, similar to how winning and losing
      pitchers are determined in baseball. In this case, the last lead
      change came when Winnipeg scored their third goal in the second
      period, taking a 3-2 lead, so I think that whoever was in net for the
      Flyers at that time becomes the goalie of record.

      Of course, the "game winning goal" for scorers is *not* determined
      this way - that's simply the goal that is one more than the losing
      team scores (in this case, the 5th). So if I have the goalie part
      correct, this means that the losing goalie is not necessarily the one
      that gives up the "game winning" goal.

      Doug

      --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, "epenaltybox" <epenaltybox@...> wrote:
      >
      > The question is when did Froese leave the game. I can't imagine he
      > strained his ligaments in the locker room between periods. The Jets
      > 5th goal was scored just 23 seconds into the 3rd, while their fourth
      > was scored with 1:20 left in the second. Find out the goalie who
      > gave up the 5th, and the details of Froese leaving the game, and you
      > have your answer.
      >
      > According to the Gettysburg Times:
      >
      > "The Jets opened up a three-goal lead at 23 seconds of the third
      > period when Robert Picard took a pass from (Dale) Hawerchuk in front
      > of the goal and went over substitute goalie Pelle Lindbergh."
      >
      > Sounds like a contemporary eyewitness account to me. I'd change it.
      >
      > Morey
      >
      > --- In hockhist@yahoogroups.com, Doug Norris <norrisdt@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > My apologies for the long e-mail; rest assured that I'm going
      > > somewhere important with this. Also, thanks to Peter from
      > > flyershistory.com for his help on this so far.
      > >
      > > As you may remember (at least from the Rick St. Croix topic of
      > > a few weeks ago), I'm currently reconciling my goaltender game
      > > logs for the 1984-85 NHL season. At some point, I noticed that I
      > > had an "extra" loss for Pelle Lindbergh and was missing a loss for
      > > Bob Froese (although game played totals matched for each).
      > > Fortunately, since Froese's official totals for 1984-85 were
      > > 13-2-0, it should have been easy to find.
      > >
      > > The Philadelphia media guide lists Froese with two losses, one to
      > > Quebec (March 2nd) and one to Winnipeg. I can confirm the Quebec
      > > loss, but cannot find the Winnipeg loss. Moreover, the Winnipeg
      > > media guide confirms a Froese loss to Winnipeg. The following
      > > were the three Philadelphia/Winnipeg games of 1984-85:
      > >
      > > November 1 7-4 Winnipeg victory
      > > December 11 5-4 OT Winnipeg victory
      > > January 27 6-2 Winnipeg victory
      > >
      > > My records showed Lindbergh as playing the entire January 27 game,
      > > and Lindbergh giving up the overtime goal on December 11 (Froese
      > > leaving with strained left knee ligaments). Therefore, my best
      > > guess is that the media guides (and league totals) credit the
      > > November 1 loss to Froese. Also, looking at the Toronto Star's
      > > weekly NHL goaltending totals (printed every Tuesday!), I get
      > > further evidence that the November 1st loss was credited to Froese
      > > instead of Lindbergh. So let's centre the conversation on
      > > November 1, 1984.
      > >
      > > Since the discrepancy involved a Philadelphia Flyer goaltender, I
      > > had the excellent resource flyershistory.com to work with (if you
      > > haven't been there before, you should, because among other things
      > > Peter has collected every box score in franchise history). And
      > > his box score for the November 1st game matches my records
      > > perfectly:
      > >
      > > http://flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/boxscore.cgi?19840104
      > >
      > > Froese started the game and stopped sixteen of twenty shots.
      > > Lindbergh gave up three goals on the final eight shots, and should
      > > have earned the loss.
      > >
      > > Naturally, I checked with Peter on this, and he was able to access
      > > a Philadelphia-area account of the game, confirming that Froese
      > > played the first two periods and Lindbergh the last (including the
      > > fifth and game-winning goal).
      > >
      > > ------------
      > >
      > > So that's where we are. Are the National Hockey League official
      > > totals for Lindbergh and Froese incorrect, and should one of
      > > Froese's two losses be credited to Lindbergh (in his
      > > trophy-winning campaign no less)? Can anyone lend any insight
      > > into the matter? Does The Hockey News have a boxscore, perchance?
      > > Any other accounts of the game? Any other boxscores or references
      > > on this one? I'm loathe to make this decision based on less than
      > > 100% evidence, but as we've seen from St. Croix, the NHL makes
      > > mistakes from time to time.
      > >
      > > Confounding matters is this report from the Toronto Star: "After
      > > the Jets took a 5-3 lead, Flyers goalie Bob Froese was replaced by
      > > Pelle Lindbergh.". This conflicts the other evidence; however,
      > > Froese is only credited with four goals against Winnipeg in both
      > > media guides.
      > >
      > > Any help would be...well, very helpful. Thanks!
      > >
      >
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