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Re: [hockeydisk] It's here

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  • boomhound@gmail.com
    Is he a TOT player? Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ... From: Herb Garbutt Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:30:34 To:
    Message 1 of 27 , Oct 22, 2009
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      Is he a TOT player?

      Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


      From: "Herb Garbutt" <herbgarbutt@...>
      Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:30:34 -0400
      To: <hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: RE: [hockeydisk] It's here

       

       Nope, just did a player search. He's there.
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dadadove@aol. com
      Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:26 PM
      To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
      Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] It's here

       

      I'm sorting players for a league and I'm not seeing Colby Armstrong.  Anyone else having this issue?

      Chris Wolter


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Herb Garbutt <herbgarbutt@ cogeco.ca>
      To: 'Hockey Disk' <hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com>
      Sent: Thu, Oct 22, 2009 5:15 pm
      Subject: [hockeydisk] It's here

       
      Hey everyone,
      Brian has posted the disk and it is now available for download at www.apbahockey. com 
       
      Hope you have a fun season and best of luck with your leagues.
       
      Herb

    • dadadove@aol.com
      my mistake sorry guys, i found him, i m just retarded!!!!!!!! chris ... From: boomhound@gmail.com To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, Oct 22, 2009 8:32
      Message 2 of 27 , Oct 22, 2009
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        my mistake sorry guys, i found him, i'm just retarded!!!!!!!!

        chris


        -----Original Message-----
        From: boomhound@...
        To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, Oct 22, 2009 8:32 pm
        Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] It's here

         
        Is he a TOT player?
        Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

        From: "Herb Garbutt" <herbgarbutt@ cogeco.ca>
        Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:30:34 -0400
        To: <hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com>
        Subject: RE: [hockeydisk] It's here

         
         Nope, just did a player search. He's there.
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dadadove@aol. com
        Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:26 PM
        To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
        Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] It's here

         
        I'm sorting players for a league and I'm not seeing Colby Armstrong.  Anyone else having this issue?

        Chris Wolter


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Herb Garbutt <herbgarbutt@ cogeco.ca>
        To: 'Hockey Disk' <hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com>
        Sent: Thu, Oct 22, 2009 5:15 pm
        Subject: [hockeydisk] It's here

         
        Hey everyone,
        Brian has posted the disk and it is now available for download at www.apbahockey. com 
         
        Hope you have a fun season and best of luck with your leagues.
         
        Herb
      • Herb Garbutt
        Jan Hejda ? Yes, Jan Hejda. I knew this one would raise some eyebrows. We ended up having to raise a lot of Columbus ratings to bring them in line, but this
        Message 3 of 27 , Oct 22, 2009
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          Message
          Jan Hejda ?
           
          Yes, Jan Hejda.  I knew this one would raise some eyebrows. We ended up having to raise a lot of Columbus ratings to bring them in line, but this was not one of them. I had him as a 5 from the start and none of the reviewers disputed it.
           
          Read up on him. He just doesn't get much attention because he only gets 20 points a year and plays for Columbus. 
           
          He led Columbus in SH time (3:58 per game) and had the best +/- on the team, +23. The next best on the team was +11. He also led the team in even strength time. He averaged 22:22 per game despite getting just 0:13 on the PP.
           
          The year before he was +20. The next best on the team was +7. Hejda was second only behind Adam Foote in SH time (3:51 per game).
           
          Couple that with the following:
           
          Jan Hejda might be the most under appreciated player in the NHL. When he partners with Mike Commodore, it's a very good shutdown pairing.--The Hockey News Yearbook
           
          Absorbed all the heavy minutes and continues to swiftly evolve into a stout shutdown defender.  A tough reliable defender who knows how to use his big frame and plays a steady, intelligent game. A key part of the penalty killing unit and too focused protecting the realm to see power play time--McKeen's
           
          A good shutdown defender, he is no longer under the radar. Opponents now know all about him--Sports Forecaster
           
          While Hejda ranks among the league’s best stay-at-home defenders in plus-minus, blocked shots and hits, the soft-spoken defenseman is content playing his shutdown role in obscurity. He doesn’t credit the team’s improvement to anything he’s adapted to, but points to the teamwork between himself and Commodore as a reason for why this year’s results are so much better than last’s.
          Not only is Hejda tied for eighth in plus-minus among defensemen with a plus-19 this season, but he was plus-20 and tied for 10th last season on a much poorer Columbus squad. This year with him on the top defensive pairing, Columbus sits third overall in shot-against per game, allowing just 27.6, a sharp turnaround from a year ago. Not that Hejda will take the credit.
          READ THE WHOLE STORY AT:  
           
          From the Columbus Dispatch:

          The soft-spoken, hard-hitting defenseman is a plus-50 in his Jackets career. It represents the league's fourth-best mark during that span behind Detroit's Pavel Datsyuk (74) and Nicklas Lidstrom (73) and Chicago's Duncan  Keith (64) . For a defensive-minded player on a low-scoring club, it's a revealing statistic. 

           "I think Jan is one of the most underrated players in the league," winger Kristian Huselius said. "He goes out every game and plays against the other team's top lines and really doesn't get enough credit for the job he does." 

          Hejda's profile, expanding within NHL circles, could grow again in February. He has a decent shot of playing for the Czech Republic in the Winter Olympics after spending the offseason training with national coach Vladimir Ruzicka.

          His primary focus remains helping the Jackets return to the playoffs. He will block shots and chip pucks off the glass with little fanfare.

          "There is nothing flashy about Jan's game," winger R.J. Umberger said. "Then, you look up at the end of the night and he's like plus-4."

          While the Blue Jackets don't have the prototypical No. 1 defenceman, Fedor Tyutin has quietly been very effective and the shutdown tandem of Mike Commodore and Jan Hejda is terrific. --TSN

          ....and early returns from this year......

          It remains to be seen how Hejda's absence will affect one of the best penalty-killing units in the league. Columbus has killed off 18 of 19 penalties (94.7 percent).  Hejda's plus-8 rating in five games puts him among the NHL leaders. --- CBS Sports 

           

           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stéphane
          Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:04 PM
          To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] It's here    

           

          Jan Hejda ?
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:58 PM
          Subject: RE: [hockeydisk] It's here

           

          Thank you Herb. Didn't mean to make such a fuss and I accept your rationale but I still think that Datsyuk got a raw deal.
           
          Pete
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Herb Garbutt
          Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:44 PM
          To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
          Subject: RE: [hockeydisk] It's here

           

          OK, since Dave has weighed in, I will to.
           
          I traced Datsyuk's ratings through my various versions of the process (I kept a seperate spreadsheet for each step in the process so if adjustments were needed I could track backwards)
           
          My initial rating on Datsyuk was a 4. In the second version, after consulting with reviewers, Datsyuk was still a 4 but marked as a potential raise. This means it was either split or not a majority for a 5. Next step was a stats review. To get a ratings bump in the stats review, there had to be an excellent statistical case or if the player was tagged as potential upgrade, a very good statistical case.  
           
          Datsyuk did lead the team in plus minus but was only fifth among forwards in SH time (behind Cleary, Draper, Zetterberg and Filppula). If it was a matter of bumping him 3 to 4, I would have, but that's not a strong enough statistical case for a 5.
           
          Still, Datsyuk remained marked as a potential bump based on testing.
           
          The first test set came back with Detroit allowing too few shots (-5.53%). Over the next 15 test sets Dave sent me (there were many more done, I'm just going by his updates to me) Detroit ranged between -6.34 and -3.21.... finally settling in a -4.37.  So at no point was there any reason to improve any of the Detroit ratings. In fact, I'm pretty sure we probably decreased a few.
           
          I believe only eight players received a 5 DEF rating (in checking this, I was actually surprised how few there were). Personally, it would not have taken much convincing for me to make Datsyuk a 5. In fact, had they needed improvement, D&Z probably would have been my first suggestions.
           
          As Dave mentioned, you can not necessarily use Selke Trophy voting as a guage of who deserves a 5. If that were the case, you would need to score at least 20 goals in order to be deserving of a 5....because those seem to be the requirements for winning the Selke. John Madden won his only Selke in 2001, the year he scored a career high 23 goals. Kris Draper won in 2004, the year he scored a career high 24 goals (he's never scored more than 15 in any other year). Mike Peca, 1997, the year he had a career high 60 points and one of the only two years he scored more than 20 goals..... Sergei Fedorov in 1994 and 1996, the only two years he topped 100 points. I could go on but I think you get the point.
           
          The Selke is no longer awarded to the best defensive forward. Somewhere in the early 90s it became the best two-way forward award. Two-way forward does not necessarily mean the best defensive forward.
           
          As for Datsyuk leading in takeaways, the majority of takeaways take place in the offensive zone on the forecheck or in the corners. And Datsyuk was rewarded with a 5 forecheck rating for that.
           
          Herb
           
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of boomhound@gmail. com
          Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:37 PM
          To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
          Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] It's here

           

          Although Datsyuk is a very good defensive player, he is overmatched in tight quarters with large forwards such Getzlaf and Thornton. Selke voters are somewhat influenced by offensive production. Datsyuk is not the best defensive forward in the league in all situations. Open ice...yes, against large power forwards along the boards..uh, no.
          As I've pointed out in the past, if you don't like the ratings, you are more than free to change them for your league or your personal use. 1000000+ test games is a st atistically significant sample, but perhaps not enough to ensure 12 sigma at a 99% confidence level.
          Let the debate begin.

          D

          Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


          From: Peter Dallara <pdallara@optonline. net>
          Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:39:54 -0400
          To: <hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com>
          Subject: RE: [hockeydisk] It's here

           

          Incredible Herb. Datsyuk is rated a 4 defensively? He's won the Selke 2 years in a row. What's up?
           
          Pete
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Herb Garbutt
          Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:15 PM
          To: 'Hockey Disk'
          Subject: [hockeydisk] It's here

           

          Hey everyone,
          Brian has posted the disk and it is now available for download at www.apbahockey. com 
           
          Hope you have a fun season and best of luck with your leagues.
           
          Herb



          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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        • Dave Bole
          when I download the new disk it get an error stating that DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE A VALID ARCHIVE. TKS DAVE BOLE ... From: Herb Garbutt To: Hockey Disk
          Message 4 of 27 , Oct 23, 2009
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            when I download the new disk it get an error stating that "DOES
            NOT APPEAR TO BE A VALID ARCHIVE. "
            TKS
            DAVE BOLE
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:15 PM
            Subject: [hockeydisk] It's here

             

            Hey everyone,
            Brian has posted the disk and it is now available for download at www.apbahockey. com 
             
            Hope you have a fun season and best of luck with your leagues.
             
            Herb

          • Brian Senecal
            There is an issue on the site I am researching. You should be able to successfully download the file using any browser other then IE. Brian
            Message 5 of 27 , Oct 23, 2009
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              There is an issue on the site I am researching.  You should be able to successfully download the file using any browser other then IE.

              Brian

              On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 4:34 AM, Dave Bole <pensnr1fan@...> wrote:
               

              when I download the new disk it get an error stating that "DOES
              NOT APPEAR TO BE A VALID ARCHIVE. "
              TKS
              DAVE BOLE
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:15 PM
              Subject: [hockeydisk] It's here

               

              Hey everyone,
              Brian has posted the disk and it is now available for download at www.apbahockey.com 
               
              Hope you have a fun season and best of luck with your leagues.
               
              Herb


            • boomhound@gmail.com
              If anyone other is actually using IE still, you have my heartfelt sympathies. The world s biggest security hole. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ... From: Brian
              Message 6 of 27 , Oct 23, 2009
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                If anyone other is actually using IE still, you have my heartfelt sympathies. The world's biggest security hole.

                Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


                From: Brian Senecal <brian@...>
                Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:26:35 -0500
                To: <hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] It's here

                 

                There is an issue on the site I am researching.  You should be able to successfully download the file using any browser other then IE.


                Brian

                On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 4:34 AM, Dave Bole <pensnr1fan@verizon. net> wrote:
                 

                when I download the new disk it get an error stating that "DOES
                NOT APPEAR TO BE A VALID ARCHIVE. "
                TKS
                DAVE BOLE
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:15 PM
                Subject: [hockeydisk] It's here

                 

                Hey everyone,
                Brian has posted the disk and it is now available for download at www.apbahockey. com 
                 
                Hope you have a fun season and best of luck with your leagues.
                 
                Herb


              • Jerry Howell
                Safari worked for me. What s weird is that I also needed regrep, but was unable to download that from a different site using IE. Safari worked for that as
                Message 7 of 27 , Oct 23, 2009
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                  Safari worked for me.  What’s weird is that I also needed regrep, but was unable to download that from a different site using IE.  Safari worked for

                  that as well.  If anyone needs me to email them the zip, let me know…

                   

                  From: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Senecal
                  Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 1:27 PM
                  To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] It's here

                   

                   

                  There is an issue on the site I am researching.  You should be able to successfully download the file using any browser other then IE.

                   

                  Brian

                  On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 4:34 AM, Dave Bole <pensnr1fan@...> wrote:

                   

                  when I download the new disk it get an error stating that "DOES

                  NOT APPEAR TO BE A VALID ARCHIVE. "

                  TKS

                  DAVE BOLE

                   

                  ----- Original Message -----

                  Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:15 PM

                  Subject: [hockeydisk] It's here

                   

                   

                  Hey everyone,

                  Brian has posted the disk and it is now available for download at www.apbahockey.com 

                   

                  Hope you have a fun season and best of luck with your leagues.

                   

                  Herb

                   

                • sylvain
                  I m using IE, could somebody reply to me and attached the zip files please? ... From: Brian Senecal To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 23,
                  Message 8 of 27 , Oct 23, 2009
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                    I'm using IE, could somebody reply to me and attached the zip files please?
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 1:26 PM
                    Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] It's here

                     

                    There is an issue on the site I am researching.  You should be able to successfully download the file using any browser other then IE.


                    Brian

                    On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 4:34 AM, Dave Bole <pensnr1fan@verizon. net> wrote:
                     

                    when I download the new disk it get an error stating that "DOES
                    NOT APPEAR TO BE A VALID ARCHIVE. "
                    TKS
                    DAVE BOLE
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:15 PM
                    Subject: [hockeydisk] It's here

                     

                    Hey everyone,
                    Brian has posted the disk and it is now available for download at www.apbahockey. com 
                     
                    Hope you have a fun season and best of luck with your leagues.
                     
                    Herb


                  • Tom Welch
                    Looking for help with APBA on windows 7. It says Hockey Commissioner.msi file is missing. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Thom Welch To:
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jan 24, 2010
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                      Looking for help with APBA on windows 7. It says Hockey Commissioner.msi file is missing. Any help would be appreciated.
                       
                      Thanks
                      Thom Welch
                       

                      To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
                      From: boomhound@...
                      Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:37:17 +0000
                      Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] It's here

                       
                      Although Datsyuk is a very good defensive player, he is overmatched in tight quarters with large forwards such Getzlaf and Thornton. Selke voters are somewhat influenced by offensive production. Datsyuk is not the best defensive forward in the league in all situations. Open ice...yes, against large power forwards along the boards..uh, no.
                      As I've pointed out in the past, if you don't like the ratings, you are more than free to change them for your league or your personal use. 1000000+ test games is a statistically significant sample, but perhaps not enough to ensure 12 sigma at a 99% confidence level.
                      Let the debate begin.

                      D

                      Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


                      From: Peter Dallara <pdallara@optonline. net>
                      Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:39:54 -0400
                      To: <hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com>
                      Subject: RE: [hockeydisk] It's here

                       
                      Incredible Herb. Datsyuk is rated a 4 defensively? He's won the Selke 2 years in a row. What's up?
                       
                      Pete
                       
                       
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Herb Garbutt
                      Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:15 PM
                      To: 'Hockey Disk'
                      Subject: [hockeydisk] It's here

                       

                      Hey everyone,
                      Brian has posted the disk and it is now available for download at www.apbahockey. com 
                       
                      Hope you have a fun season and best of luck with your leagues.
                       
                      Herb






                      Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.
                    • Tom Welch
                      Forgot to change SUBJECT..thanks Looking for help with APBA on windows 7. It says Hockey Commissioner.msi file is missing. Any help would be appreciated.
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jan 24, 2010
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                        Forgot to change SUBJECT..thanks
                         
                        Looking for help with APBA on windows 7. It says Hockey Commissioner. msi file is missing. Any help would be appreciated.
                         
                        Thanks
                        Thom Welch

                         

                        To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
                        From: tew444@...
                        Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 21:56:26 -0500
                        Subject: RE: [hockeydisk] It's here

                         
                         

                        To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
                        From: boomhound@gmail. com
                        Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:37:17 +0000
                        Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] It's here

                         
                        Although Datsyuk is a very good defensive player, he is overmatched in tight quarters with large forwards such Getzlaf and Thornton. Selke voters are somewhat influenced by offensive production. Datsyuk is not the best defensive forward in the league in all situations. Open ice...yes, against large power forwards along the boards..uh, no.
                        As I've pointed out in the past, if you don't like the ratings, you are more than free to change them for your league or your personal use. 1000000+ test games is a statistically significant sample, but perhaps not enough to ensure 12 sigma at a 99% confidence level.
                        Let the debate begin.

                        D

                        Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


                        From: Peter Dallara <pdallara@optonline. net>
                        Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:39:54 -0400
                        To: <hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com>
                        Subject: RE: [hockeydisk] It's here

                         
                        Incredible Herb. Datsyuk is rated a 4 defensively? He's won the Selke 2 years in a row. What's up?
                         
                        Pete
                         
                         
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Herb Garbutt
                        Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:15 PM
                        To: 'Hockey Disk'
                        Subject: [hockeydisk] It's here

                         

                        Hey everyone,
                        Brian has posted the disk and it is now available for download at www.apbahockey. com 
                         
                        Hope you have a fun season and best of luck with your leagues.
                         
                        Herb







                        Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.



                        Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now.
                      • Dave Bole
                        anyone out there have APHcomm 3.1 that I can use on XP ? TKS DAVE ... From: Tom Welch To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:01 PM
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jan 24, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          anyone out there have APHcomm 3.1 that I can use
                          on XP ?
                          TKS
                          DAVE
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Tom Welch
                          Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:01 PM
                          Subject: [hockeydisk] RE: Help with APBA on Windows 7

                           

                          Forgot to change SUBJECT..thanks
                           
                          Looking for help with APBA on windows 7. It says Hockey Commissioner. msi file is missing. Any help would be appreciated.
                           
                          Thanks
                          Thom Welch

                           


                          To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
                          From: tew444@...
                          Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 21:56:26 -0500
                          Subject: RE: [hockeydisk] It's here

                           


                          To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
                          From: boomhound@gmail. com
                          Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:37:17 +0000
                          Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] It's here

                           
                          Although Datsyuk is a very good defensive player, he is overmatched in tight quarters with large forwards such Getzlaf and Thornton. Selke voters are somewhat influenced by offensive production. Datsyuk is not the best defensive forward in the league in all situations. Open ice...yes, against large power forwards along the boards..uh, no.
                          As I've pointed out in the past, if you don't like the ratings, you are more than free to change them for your league or your personal use. 1000000+ test games is a statistically significant sample, but perhaps not enough to ensure 12 sigma at a 99% confidence level.
                          Let the debate begin.

                          D

                          Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


                          From: Peter Dallara <pdallara@optonline. net>
                          Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:39:54 -0400
                          To: <hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com>
                          Subject: RE: [hockeydisk] It's here

                           
                          Incredible Herb. Datsyuk is rated a 4 defensively? He's won the Selke 2 years in a row. What's up?
                           
                          Pete
                           
                           
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Herb Garbutt
                          Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:15 PM
                          To: 'Hockey Disk'
                          Subject: [hockeydisk] It's here

                           

                          Hey everyone,
                          Brian has posted the disk and it is now available for download at www.apbahockey. com 
                           
                          Hope you have a fun season and best of luck with your leagues.
                           
                          Herb







                          Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.



                          Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now.

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