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[hockeydisk] Couple of questions I had

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  • eferron@generation.net
    I ve always wondered about a couple of things and since we discovered the hidden stats for goalies, it prompted me with a new one. 1- We were wondering about
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 25, 1999
      I've always wondered about a couple of things and since we discovered
      the hidden stats for goalies, it prompted me with a new one.

      1- We were wondering about the passing/assist. Is the passing rating a
      quality factor of a pass being made, or a probability for a player to
      be making a pass to another player. If this is a quality rating, then
      what makes a good setup man, someone who would pass the puck along to
      another player. Is then the assist rating to figure if the players the
      pass will be sent to is in a scoring situation? I guess the question
      really is, what makes the program decide if the puck holder is going to
      pass the puck or keep it. Maybe this is standard for all players (in
      which case is there a difference between forwards and defenseman?) If I
      remember well from what i've read yet, the Assist stats are irrelevent
      if only maybe use to compute the assist rating.

      2- How are the "shooter rating" influential in the game, did anybody do
      a simulation? My question arose from one of my players stat's: "Sergei
      Berezin" he has a "shot on goal: 103" rating, which means I assume that
      if he shots, it's going to be the goalie's job to stop it. Any comments?

      3- The "intimidation" rating, i've always really ignored thinking it
      couldn't much value in a simulation where I tough the psychology of it
      had no place. But if the stats there, they're must be a reason and an
      impact. So i'm thinking it's probably has something to do with the
      ability to go in the corner alone or at least get out with the puck
      permanently (i've notice a lot of: xx gets the puck, yy gets the puck,
      xx gets the puck, zz skates away with the puck).

      4- While i'm asking all theses questions, i'm thinking there must be a
      clear definition for every rating we could have and give everybody...

      Guess i'll stop now, before i'm swamped with answers

      Thanks a bunch
      Eric Ferron
      a.k.a. Hiroshima Survivors
      94-95', 96-97' LNHO Cup champions
    • Simon Ka
      I have some questions regarding the shooter ratings. I just found out that Peter Bondra has a 116 shoton goal rating. Is that mean everytime he shoots the
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 25, 1999
        I have some questions regarding the shooter ratings. I just found out that
        Peter Bondra has a 116 shoton goal rating. Is that mean everytime he shoots
        the puck it will go to the goalie?


        ______________________________________________________
      • Kraus, Jeff
        1. Passing/Assist ratings - I don t know how these fit into the grand scheme. PASS definitely affects passing%, and possibly the frequency with which he
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 25, 1999
          1. Passing/Assist ratings - I don't know how these fit into the grand
          scheme. "PASS" definitely affects passing%, and possibly the frequency with
          which he passes. No idea what the assist rating does, which is why we
          haven't played around with that formula at all. Assist totals are
          definitely way too low for the big playmakers.

          2. Shooter ratings - Three players shot so frequently that we had to jack
          their ratings above 100 to get them to shoot with the same frequency in
          APBA: Berezin, Kariya and Bondra. Just about every shot they take will be
          on goal (not every shot, but just about). Of the three, Berezin and Bondra
          were among the most accurate SOG/Min in our simulations compared to real
          life, with Berezin within 1% of his real life SOG/Min and Bondra within 2%.
          They'll still have shots blocked or fan on shots, but not many. And they
          won't shoot every time they touch the puck, they'll pass off or have a
          defender take it away. But they'll be gunning, just like in real life.

          3. INT rating - A guy with a high INT will throw more hits and win more
          corners, but overall it's not one of the more important ratings. It's not
          nearly as important as PHYS.

          4. Definitions of the ratings - I don't know anything about the ratings that
          anybody else couldn't figure out. It's all a matter of running simulation
          after simulation and logging the results. I don't even think Dave knows
          exactly what goes on in the game engine, because the code is such a mess.
          In other words, I can tell you that "a guy with a 5 PASS rating will
          complete 10% more passes than a guy with a 1" (don't quote me, I made those
          figures up), but I can't tell you why he will pass rather than shoot, or
          what his success rate will be against a 4 defender as opposed to a 3
          defender, or what makes him dump the puck instead of carrying it across the
          blue line. I can only analyze the results, I can't define the process. So
          I guess the answer to that question is, "No, there ISN'T a clear definition
          we could give everyone." Not until Dave quits his job and deciphers APBA
          code full time. :-)

          Jeff
        • Simon Ka
          Ok, so does shooter ratings and scoring percentage work in the sam formula? For example, if a guy have 100 for shot on goal and his scoring percentage is like
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 25, 1999
            Ok, so does shooter ratings and scoring percentage work in the sam formula?
            For example, if a guy have 100 for shot on goal and his scoring percentage
            is like 18 to 20%, does this mean he will score like hell?


            >From: "Kraus, Jeff" <KRAUS@...>
            >Reply-To: hockeydisk@egroups.com
            >To: "'hockeydisk@egroups.com'" <hockeydisk@egroups.com>
            >Subject: [hockeydisk] Re: Couple of questions I had
            >Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:30:15 -0400
            >
            >1. Passing/Assist ratings - I don't know how these fit into the grand
            >scheme. "PASS" definitely affects passing%, and possibly the frequency
            >with
            >which he passes. No idea what the assist rating does, which is why we
            >haven't played around with that formula at all. Assist totals are
            >definitely way too low for the big playmakers.
            >
            >2. Shooter ratings - Three players shot so frequently that we had to jack
            >their ratings above 100 to get them to shoot with the same frequency in
            >APBA: Berezin, Kariya and Bondra. Just about every shot they take will be
            >on goal (not every shot, but just about). Of the three, Berezin and Bondra
            >were among the most accurate SOG/Min in our simulations compared to real
            >life, with Berezin within 1% of his real life SOG/Min and Bondra within 2%.
            >They'll still have shots blocked or fan on shots, but not many. And they
            >won't shoot every time they touch the puck, they'll pass off or have a
            >defender take it away. But they'll be gunning, just like in real life.
            >
            >3. INT rating - A guy with a high INT will throw more hits and win more
            >corners, but overall it's not one of the more important ratings. It's not
            >nearly as important as PHYS.
            >
            >4. Definitions of the ratings - I don't know anything about the ratings
            >that
            >anybody else couldn't figure out. It's all a matter of running simulation
            >after simulation and logging the results. I don't even think Dave knows
            >exactly what goes on in the game engine, because the code is such a mess.
            >In other words, I can tell you that "a guy with a 5 PASS rating will
            >complete 10% more passes than a guy with a 1" (don't quote me, I made those
            >figures up), but I can't tell you why he will pass rather than shoot, or
            >what his success rate will be against a 4 defender as opposed to a 3
            >defender, or what makes him dump the puck instead of carrying it across the
            >blue line. I can only analyze the results, I can't define the process. So
            >I guess the answer to that question is, "No, there ISN'T a clear definition
            >we could give everyone." Not until Dave quits his job and deciphers APBA
            >code full time. :-)
            >
            >Jeff
            >
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            >at checkout. http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/463
            >
            >
            >eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/hockeydisk
            >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
            >
            >
            >
            >


            ______________________________________________________
          • Kraus, Jeff
            If he scored like hell in real life, he will score like hell in APBA. That s the thing. Bondra and Kariya DIDN T have 18 to 20% scoring percentages, they had
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 25, 1999
              If he scored like hell in real life, he will score like hell in APBA.
              That's the thing. Bondra and Kariya DIDN'T have 18 to 20% scoring
              percentages, they had 9 to 11%. They shot and shot and shot but obviously
              weren't very picky about what kind of shots they were getting. Berezin, on
              the other hand, DID score like hell. His scoring % was a healthy 14+, but
              he piled up almost 40 goals in less than 16 minutes of ice time per game.
              That's pretty phenomenal.

              Again, I don't know how the mechanics of the shooter ratings and goalie
              ratings and scoring percentage all work together, but they do work.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Simon Ka [mailto:simonm88@...]
              Sent: Sunday, July 25, 1999 9:57 PM
              To: hockeydisk@egroups.com
              Subject: [hockeydisk] Re: Couple of questions I had


              Ok, so does shooter ratings and scoring percentage work in the sam formula?

              For example, if a guy have 100 for shot on goal and his scoring percentage
              is like 18 to 20%, does this mean he will score like hell?


              >From: "Kraus, Jeff" <KRAUS@...>
              >Reply-To: hockeydisk@egroups.com
              >To: "'hockeydisk@egroups.com'" <hockeydisk@egroups.com>
              >Subject: [hockeydisk] Re: Couple of questions I had
              >Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:30:15 -0400
              >
              >1. Passing/Assist ratings - I don't know how these fit into the grand
              >scheme. "PASS" definitely affects passing%, and possibly the frequency
              >with
              >which he passes. No idea what the assist rating does, which is why we
              >haven't played around with that formula at all. Assist totals are
              >definitely way too low for the big playmakers.
              >
              >2. Shooter ratings - Three players shot so frequently that we had to jack
              >their ratings above 100 to get them to shoot with the same frequency in
              >APBA: Berezin, Kariya and Bondra. Just about every shot they take will be
              >on goal (not every shot, but just about). Of the three, Berezin and Bondra
              >were among the most accurate SOG/Min in our simulations compared to real
              >life, with Berezin within 1% of his real life SOG/Min and Bondra within 2%.
              >They'll still have shots blocked or fan on shots, but not many. And they
              >won't shoot every time they touch the puck, they'll pass off or have a
              >defender take it away. But they'll be gunning, just like in real life.
              >
              >3. INT rating - A guy with a high INT will throw more hits and win more
              >corners, but overall it's not one of the more important ratings. It's not
              >nearly as important as PHYS.
              >
              >4. Definitions of the ratings - I don't know anything about the ratings
              >that
              >anybody else couldn't figure out. It's all a matter of running simulation
              >after simulation and logging the results. I don't even think Dave knows
              >exactly what goes on in the game engine, because the code is such a mess.
              >In other words, I can tell you that "a guy with a 5 PASS rating will
              >complete 10% more passes than a guy with a 1" (don't quote me, I made those
              >figures up), but I can't tell you why he will pass rather than shoot, or
              >what his success rate will be against a 4 defender as opposed to a 3
              >defender, or what makes him dump the puck instead of carrying it across the
              >blue line. I can only analyze the results, I can't define the process. So
              >I guess the answer to that question is, "No, there ISN'T a clear definition
              >we could give everyone." Not until Dave quits his job and deciphers APBA
              >code full time. :-)
              >
              >Jeff
              >
              >------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >GET $10 OFF ANY ORDER @ healthshop.com! No min. purchase req.
              >Save on vitamins & supplements. Use coupon code: EGROUPS99
              >at checkout. http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/463
              >
              >
              >eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/hockeydisk
              >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
              >
              >
              >
              >


              ______________________________________________________

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            • D. A. Atkinson
              To answer EVERYONE S questions similar to the one below concerning what the ratings do, here are some suggestions: 1) Watch APBA games in detail. There are
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 1, 1999
                To answer EVERYONE'S questions similar to the one below concerning
                what the ratings do, here are some suggestions:
                1) Watch APBA games in detail. There are just a limited number of events
                and outcomes, and if you track some of these, it will give you insight
                into the game. For example, if a rebound is loose in the slot, and someone
                attempts to clear it, he is either successful or unsuccessful. By tracking the

                ratings of the players that do this, you can get a feel for what comes into
                play.
                2) Get Jeff's generic team set off his site and replay seasons, tweaking the
                ratings yourself and seeing the effects.
                3) Read Jeff's treatise on big ratings changes (1 vs. 5 PHY) for example. Jeff

                did a great job and gave some real insight in his research.
                4) Keep in mind that in many cases, one rating does not describe all. Brad
                pointed
                out awhile back that he is frustrated because changing one rating doesn't fix
                a
                specific problem totally, and starts effecting other things. The ratings do
                have
                ties together.
                5) Later this year, when I get some free time, I will start updating the game.
                While
                I do that, I will make notes on how the ratings effect things, so that a
                "guide"
                to what does what can be built for APBA hockey gamers to learn from.

                Hope this starts to clear up the hundreds of questions about what ratings does
                what.
                Much needs to be learned yet.
                Also, anyone who does some detailed research using generic teams and studies
                the
                effects, please make your work known to us. It will help immensely in
                answering
                everyone's questions and will help make next year's disk project better.

                Dave


                eferron@... wrote:

                > I've always wondered about a couple of things and since we discovered
                > the hidden stats for goalies, it prompted me with a new one.
                >
                > 1- We were wondering about the passing/assist. Is the passing rating a
                > quality factor of a pass being made, or a probability for a player to
                > be making a pass to another player. If this is a quality rating, then
                > what makes a good setup man, someone who would pass the puck along to
                > another player. Is then the assist rating to figure if the players the
                > pass will be sent to is in a scoring situation? I guess the question
                > really is, what makes the program decide if the puck holder is going to
                > pass the puck or keep it. Maybe this is standard for all players (in
                > which case is there a difference between forwards and defenseman?) If I
                > remember well from what i've read yet, the Assist stats are irrelevent
                > if only maybe use to compute the assist rating.
                >
                > 2- How are the "shooter rating" influential in the game, did anybody do
                > a simulation? My question arose from one of my players stat's: "Sergei
                > Berezin" he has a "shot on goal: 103" rating, which means I assume that
                > if he shots, it's going to be the goalie's job to stop it. Any comments?
                >
                > 3- The "intimidation" rating, i've always really ignored thinking it
                > couldn't much value in a simulation where I tough the psychology of it
                > had no place. But if the stats there, they're must be a reason and an
                > impact. So i'm thinking it's probably has something to do with the
                > ability to go in the corner alone or at least get out with the puck
                > permanently (i've notice a lot of: xx gets the puck, yy gets the puck,
                > xx gets the puck, zz skates away with the puck).
                >
                > 4- While i'm asking all theses questions, i'm thinking there must be a
                > clear definition for every rating we could have and give everybody...
                >
                > Guess i'll stop now, before i'm swamped with answers
                >
                > Thanks a bunch
                > Eric Ferron
                > a.k.a. Hiroshima Survivors
                > 94-95', 96-97' LNHO Cup champions
                >
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