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RE: [hockeydisk] Updates?

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  • William Underwood
    I was talking vis a vis APBA/Face Off. Strat was 1978. Negamco was out there before it as was PTG which was a forerunner of Face Off. PTG goes back to 69. WGH
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 4, 2006
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      I was talking vis a vis APBA/Face Off.  Strat was 1978.

       

      Negamco was out there before it as was PTG which was a forerunner of Face Off. PTG goes back to 69. WGH was as I recall also 74, Statis Pro started around them too with its first set being, believe it or not the old USHL senior league! There were others in the late 70’s. Tudor and Gamecraft. Then THG came in the 80’s and a few others.

       

      But Face Off is the longest surviving board game that has existed continuously. It was never really mass marketed but has a STRONG core of devoted followers.

       

      Speaking as a guy that has played hockey since he was young and have been lucky enough to make a career of it as an adult as a scout and management, to me it is the king of hockey games. Mark Zarb’s board APBA is a good second. Computer wise it is also the most accurate with Quest now second. I’d love to see ABPA put ZarbPA to the computer!

       

      Computer Face Off is not then most user friendly engine in the world but the results are well worth it! It and Quest are the only two games where I have yet to see a really odd result…the 100 goal scorer which I actually saw in APBA once (Mogilny in the 90’s) or a guy like Thronton get short changed 50 points like I just saw a guy get in Strat in a  straight replay! Even draft leagues come up with reasonable results. Buys points will vary of course but it is not an odd variation, you find it believable, no 105 goal Alex or 70 point Thorntons !  I think that there are some key elements:

       

      1-NO game gets penalties right like Face Off! They actually analyze EVERY player by EVERY call to SEPCIFICALLY define the ACTUAL penalty profile. Does he take guys off with him? Does he fight? Wimps don’t fight in Face Off, irritants irritate! And if you fail to get penalties right you have a problem in a hockey sim…The Dale Hunters (who often take a man with them) are not a liability in Face Off…even Ernico Ciccone had the same value as he did in real life, sure he was the human penalty machine but he usually brought a “pal” to the box with him! A hard nosed Hunter was a valuable guy like in real life and having a goon to offset another goon also makes sense.

      2-You can’t overplay guys on FO. It is quite draconian for over usage. Hence you play more hockey than FO. It is tough to get that 105 goals! J

      3-The additional ratings can REALLY make the foot soldier count. In FO you can win with a lunch pail crew like in real life.

      I had a team once with only an above average attack and goalie but GREAT D…I got to the semis!

      4-Playmakers have some role…granted it is less than perfect but better than most sims. Joe Thronton won’t cme up 50 points short!

      5-Match ups mean a lot. It is the ONLY sim that catches that D in hockey is not strictly man to man nor is it really a true zone or 5 man thing. N any given play there are three guys that count more than the rest. It takes into account those three. Hence you can match a top defensive d-man against a top wing as is now the trend in hockey (as opposed to old days when you shadowed with a wing) and it has the same impact! Guys like Pronger and Chara are EVERY BIT as priceless as ion real life!

      6-Systems are there to use but they are not so intrusive as to totally skew results. As is the case in real hockey the effects are specific not generic in terms of effecting every single play.

       

      Harry came up with a GEM all those years back!

                 


      From: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of D. Atkinson
      Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:48 PM
      To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?

       

      Even the Strat-o-matic board game? Do we have a timeframe on the release of that?

      William Underwood wrote:

      True. But Face Off Board preceded all.

       


      .


    • Brad Utterstrom
      Regarding the penalty talk I quoted below, I ll have to check this out then. I am pretty sure I have checked out Face Off! and that s the first thing I check,
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 5, 2006
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        Regarding the penalty talk I quoted below, I'll have to check this out
        then. I am pretty sure I have checked out Face Off! and that's the
        first thing I check, and I was not impressed. APBA's system for
        penalties is actually quite good. It has everything you stated below,
        the trouble is to accurately rate the players. For instance, APBA has
        a COIN rating (for coincidental minors), but there's a tendency for
        way too many non-coincidental minors on APBA disks. I always go
        through and do some testing and get the penalty ratings as accurate as
        possible for this reason, so that a guy who fights a lot but doesn't
        get a lot of standalone minors isn't always putting his team shorthanded.

        "1-NO game gets penalties right like Face Off! They actually analyze
        EVERY player by EVERY call to SEPCIFICALLY define the ACTUAL penalty
        profile. Does he take guys off with him? Does he fight? Wimps don't
        fight in Face Off, irritants irritate! And if you fail to get
        penalties right you have a problem in a hockey sim…The Dale Hunters
        (who often take a man with them) are not a liability in Face Off…even
        Ernico Ciccone had the same value as he did in real life, sure he was
        the human penalty machine but he usually brought a "pal" to the box
        with him! A hard nosed Hunter was a valuable guy like in real life and
        having a goon to offset another goon also makes sense."

        --- In hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com, "William Underwood" <wausport@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I was talking vis a vis APBA/Face Off. Strat was 1978.
        >
        >
        >
        > Negamco was out there before it as was PTG which was a forerunner of
        Face
        > Off. PTG goes back to 69. WGH was as I recall also 74, Statis Pro
        started
        > around them too with its first set being, believe it or not the old USHL
        > senior league! There were others in the late 70's. Tudor and
        Gamecraft. Then
        > THG came in the 80's and a few others.
        >
        >
        >
        > But Face Off is the longest surviving board game that has existed
        > continuously. It was never really mass marketed but has a STRONG core of
        > devoted followers.
        >
        >
        >
        > Speaking as a guy that has played hockey since he was young and have
        been
        > lucky enough to make a career of it as an adult as a scout and
        management,
        > to me it is the king of hockey games. Mark Zarb's board APBA is a good
        > second. Computer wise it is also the most accurate with Quest now
        second.
        > I'd love to see ABPA put ZarbPA to the computer!
        >
        >
        >
        > Computer Face Off is not then most user friendly engine in the world
        but the
        > results are well worth it! It and Quest are the only two games where
        I have
        > yet to see a really odd result.the 100 goal scorer which I actually
        saw in
        > APBA once (Mogilny in the 90's) or a guy like Thronton get short
        changed 50
        > points like I just saw a guy get in Strat in a straight replay!
        Even draft
        > leagues come up with reasonable results. Buys points will vary of
        course but
        > it is not an odd variation, you find it believable, no 105 goal Alex
        or 70
        > point Thorntons! I think that there are some key elements:
        >
        >
        >
        > 1-NO game gets penalties right like Face Off! They actually analyze
        EVERY
        > player by EVERY call to SEPCIFICALLY define the ACTUAL penalty
        profile. Does
        > he take guys off with him? Does he fight? Wimps don't fight in Face Off,
        > irritants irritate! And if you fail to get penalties right you have a
        > problem in a hockey sim.The Dale Hunters (who often take a man with
        them)
        > are not a liability in Face Off.even Ernico Ciccone had the same
        value as he
        > did in real life, sure he was the human penalty machine but he usually
        > brought a "pal" to the box with him! A hard nosed Hunter was a
        valuable guy
        > like in real life and having a goon to offset another goon also
        makes sense.
        >
        > 2-You can't overplay guys on FO. It is quite draconian for over
        usage. Hence
        > you play more hockey than FO. It is tough to get that 105 goals! :-)
        >
        > 3-The additional ratings can REALLY make the foot soldier count. In
        FO you
        > can win with a lunch pail crew like in real life.
        >
        > I had a team once with only an above average attack and goalie but
        GREAT D.I
        > got to the semis!
        >
        > 4-Playmakers have some role.granted it is less than perfect but
        better than
        > most sims. Joe Thronton won't cme up 50 points short!
        >
        > 5-Match ups mean a lot. It is the ONLY sim that catches that D in
        hockey is
        > not strictly man to man nor is it really a true zone or 5 man thing.
        N any
        > given play there are three guys that count more than the rest. It
        takes into
        > account those three. Hence you can match a top defensive d-man
        against a top
        > wing as is now the trend in hockey (as opposed to old days when you
        shadowed
        > with a wing) and it has the same impact! Guys like Pronger and Chara are
        > EVERY BIT as priceless as ion real life!
        >
        > 6-Systems are there to use but they are not so intrusive as to
        totally skew
        > results. As is the case in real hockey the effects are specific not
        generic
        > in terms of effecting every single play.
        >
        >
        >
        > Harry came up with a GEM all those years back!
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of D. Atkinson
        > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:48 PM
        > To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?
        >
        >
        >
        > Even the Strat-o-matic board game? Do we have a timeframe on the
        release of
        > that?
        >
        > William Underwood wrote:
        >
        > True. But Face Off Board preceded all.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
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      • William Underwood
        You really ought to.having played for some 30 years I can attest that the Face Off penalty system is as close to real as it gets! Each player has two penalty
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 5, 2006
        • 0 Attachment

          You really ought to…having played for some 30 years I can attest that the Face Off penalty system is as close to real as it gets! Each player has two penalty columns that are made up from his INDIVIDUAL calls for the year. Hence if he only had non coincidental minors his column reflects this. There is NOTHING generic there. The makers of the game actually go through the box scores and look at EVERY individual call on each player to derive the matrix. It is categorized SPECIFICALLY. There is no guestimaton/estimation involved. Indeed if a guy took an exotic call like a coincidental double minor….it would be there. That one chance to get it called. It is to the point where I have seen guys do replays and come within a handful of minutes for players to their real total.

           

          The number of PP’s are dead on and the number of overall minutes is also right there. The APBA disks are quite good but the APBA engine just doesn’t have the capacity for all of the exotic penalty combos that happen. The board version even lacked double minors until Zarb fixed that. In Face Off going all the way back to[ the board version there is even a chart for odd calls that can be triggered off of certain player card matrices, generally highly penalized guys. It covers match penalties (rare), brawls and about any combo of odd coincidental calls that are possible. I remember Schultz drew a TRIPLE minor once in the 70’s…I have never seen that before or since…and the Schultz card could make that happen,

           

          So unless the disk designer goes through EVERY single penalty call over the year for each player he is not doing what face Off does and even if he did the APBA engine just does not allow for as much discerning of individual calls so it would be a waste for him to go anymore specific than basic categories.

           

          Like I say, I have played APBA since it came out and Face Off…Face Off gets the nod on the penalty system. APBA doesn’t do a bad job but it is not up to the standard of Face Off. Having said that, I must add that APBA is an easier game to learn. I can’t really compare user friendliness for the computer as APBA was a DOS game. and therefore several years of technology behind Face Off.

           

          Both are great games. To me board Face Off is #1 and ZarbPa #2 with Zarbpa being easier to learn and master. On the computer I have to say FO then Quest. If Zarbpa ever comes to windows it could be #2 like APBA used to be in DOS days. Like I said, APBA is similar in a lot of ways to Face Off. It uses a lot of similar concepts that are re wrapped and simplified.   

          As a result APBA is a bit more easy game to master but Face Off is a bit more accurate on the stats. This is not to say that APBA is not quite good…number two, the prince consort to the king is not bad at all! J I’ve tested out a lot of court jesters over the years and these two stand out and to me are obvious first cousins.  


          From: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Brad Utterstrom
          Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 2:08 PM
          To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [hockeydisk] Re: Updates?

           

          Regarding the penalty talk I quoted below, I'll have to check this out
          then. I am pretty sure I have checked out Face Off! and that's the
          first thing I check, and I was not impressed. APBA's system for
          penalties is actually quite good. It has everything you stated below,
          the trouble is to accurately rate the players. For instance, APBA has
          a COIN rating (for coincidental minors), but there's a tendency for
          way too many non-coincidental minors on APBA disks. I always go
          through and do some testing and get the penalty ratings as accurate as
          possible for this reason, so that a guy who fights a lot but doesn't
          get a lot of standalone minors isn't always putting his team shorthanded.

          "1-NO game gets penalties right like Face Off! They actually analyze
          EVERY player by EVERY call to SEPCIFICALLY define the ACTUAL penalty
          profile. Does he take guys off with him? Does he fight? Wimps don't
          fight in Face Off, irritants irritate! And if you fail to get
          penalties right you have a problem in a hockey sim…The Dale Hunters
          (who often take a man with them) are not a liability in Face Off…even
          Ernico Ciccone had the same value as he did in real life, sure he was
          the human penalty machine but he usually brought a "pal" to the box
          with him! A hard nosed Hunter was a valuable guy like in real life and
          having a goon to offset another goon also makes sense."

          --- In hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com, "William Underwood" <wausport@.. .>
          wrote:

          >
          > I was talking vis a vis APBA/Face Off. Strat was 1978.
          >
          >
          >
          > Negamco was out there before it as was PTG which was a forerunner of
          Face
          > Off. PTG goes back to 69. WGH was as I recall also 74, Statis Pro
          started
          > around them too with its first set being, believe it or not the old USHL
          > senior league! There were others in the late 70's. Tudor and
          Gamecraft. Then
          > THG came in the 80's and a few others.
          >
          >
          >
          > But Face Off is the longest surviving board game that has existed
          > continuously. It was never really mass marketed but has a STRONG core of
          > devoted followers.
          >
          >
          >
          > Speaking as a guy that has played hockey since he was young and have
          been
          > lucky enough to make a career of it as an adult as a scout and
          management,
          > to me it is the king of hockey games. Mark Zarb's board APBA is a good
          > second. Computer wise it is also the most accurate with Quest now
          second.
          > I'd love to see ABPA put ZarbPA to the computer!
          >
          >
          >
          > Computer Face Off is not then most user friendly engine in the world
          but the
          > results are well worth it! It and Quest are the only two games where
          I have
          > yet to see a really odd result.the 100 goal scorer which I actually
          saw in
          > APBA once (Mogilny in the 90's) or a guy like Thronton get short
          changed 50
          > points like I just saw a guy get in Strat in a straight replay!
          Even draft
          > leagues come up with reasonable results. Buys points will vary of
          course but
          > it is not an odd variation, you find it believable, no 105 goal Alex
          or 70
          > point Thorntons! I think that there are some key elements:
          >
          >
          >
          > 1-NO game gets penalties right like Face Off! They actually analyze
          EVERY
          > player by EVERY call to SEPCIFICALLY define the ACTUAL penalty
          profile. Does
          > he take guys off with him? Does he fight? Wimps don't fight in Face Off,
          > irritants irritate! And if you fail to get penalties right you have a
          > problem in a hockey sim.The Dale Hunters (who often take a man with
          them)
          > are not a liability in Face Off.even Ernico Ciccone had the same
          value as he
          > did in real life, sure he was the human penalty machine but he usually
          > brought a "pal" to the box with him! A hard nosed Hunter was a
          valuable guy
          > like in real life and having a goon to offset another goon also
          makes sense.
          >
          > 2-You can't overplay guys on FO. It is quite draconian for over
          usage. Hence
          > you play more hockey than FO. It is tough to get that 105 goals! :-)
          >
          > 3-The additional ratings can REALLY make the foot soldier count. In
          FO you
          > can win with a lunch pail crew like in real life.
          >
          > I had a team once with only an above average attack and goalie but
          GREAT D.I
          > got to the semis!
          >
          > 4-Playmakers have some role.granted it is less than perfect but
          better than
          > most sims. Joe Thronton won't cme up 50 points short!
          >
          > 5-Match ups mean a lot. It is the ONLY sim that catches that D in
          hockey is
          > not strictly man to man nor is it really a true zone or 5 man thing.
          N any
          > given play there are three guys that count more than the rest. It
          takes into
          > account those three. Hence you can match a top defensive d-man
          against a top
          > wing as is now the trend in hockey (as opposed to old days when you
          shadowed
          > with a wing) and it has the same impact! Guys like Pronger and Chara are
          > EVERY BIT as priceless as ion real life!
          >
          > 6-Systems are there to use but they are not so intrusive as to
          totally skew
          > results. As is the case in real hockey the effects are specific not
          generic
          > in terms of effecting every single play.
          >
          >
          >
          > Harry came up with a GEM all those years back!
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
          [mailto:hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com] On
          > Behalf Of D. Atkinson
          > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:48 PM
          > To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
          > Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?
          >
          >
          >
          > Even the Strat-o-matic board game? Do we have a timeframe on the
          release of
          > that?
          >
          > William Underwood wrote:
          >
          > True. But Face Off Board preceded all.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          >
          > Links
          >
          <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/hockeydisk /links;_ylc= X3oDMTJmYmkzcWFh BF9TAzk
          >
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          > * Ice
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        • Harry Conover
          Bill, Thanks for the positive notes on FACE-OFF PRO HOCKEY. I used to have the APBA computer version of hockey but found it strangely...boring. Maybe it was
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 5, 2006
          • 0 Attachment

            Bill,

            Thanks for the positive notes on FACE-OFF PRO HOCKEY. I used to have the APBA computer version of hockey but found it strangely...boring. Maybe it was the repitive yet non-descriptive play by play ?

            In any case I'd LOVE to try out APBA once again.

            BTW, is the FACE-OFF PRO HOCKEY game board/cards version still being produced  ?

            Best,

            Harry Conover


            From: "William Underwood" <wausport@...>
            Reply-To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
            To: <hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: RE: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?
            Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 12:47:21 -0400

            To Dave: As Harry will confirm, actually this is NOT true�the board version of Face Off has been around since 1974 while APBA came out in 1993 as I recall�computer Face Off started to be developed around the same time in the 90�s as APBA. And indeed a lot of the basic APBA engine mime Face Off in ways. Some people have called APBA �Face Off Lite�. It preceded APBA by NEARLY 20 YEARS!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!! I bought my first Face Off set for the 1975-5 season! And I have all of the sets since then except for a couple in the mid 80�s anyone who can add to my collection for them and 73-4 please speak up! I also am an original APBA customer and have all sets and covered the board version in the APBA Journal.

             

            To Both:  I remember I noticed a few certain similarities the minute I saw APBA! While I can�t say that APBA is a copy it definitely has been influenced by Face Off. It has defence/clear ratings that are MUCH LIKE Face Off as was the way it uses intimidation and forecheck ratings. I have little doubt that Face Off influenced the designers here. The basic D differs as it is based on the FIVE player on the ice not an isolation of the side of the ice for each player by using three player�s D ratings APBA thus is more like an APBA PK procedure. It also uses a D adjustment system that is based upon the number of forecheckers which is more like Strat than anything. The penalty ratings are categorized like APBA though not in nearly as much depth. Instead of a column the ratings are broken down minor/ major/ misconduct.  But the same spirit is there. And finally APBA has a Rock rating in computer hockey which is more or less a direct copy of the Face Off �Screen� rating. I also suspect that the computer PK ratings are based on Face Off.

             

            To Harry: GREAT TO HEAR FROM YOU! As for Face Off�400 Studios is dead but it will now be sold by Medley Games. The addy is www.medleygames. com

             

            The deal was just signed with Medley so nothing is available yet. Rick Cole is the man in charge of Face Off and he is at

             

            eloc1@cogeco. ca

             

            I have another addy if this one has probs.

             

            The disk will be out at some point in the next couple of months. Game engine updates are slated for 2007.

             

            There is also a Face Off forum at faceoff-list@ yahoogroups. com

             

            I hope this helps.

             


            From: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dave Bole
            Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 5:33 AM
            To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
            Subject: Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?

             

            No the APBA game is NOT based on FACE OFF....APBA has been around

            alot longer than faceoff.

            DAVE

             

            ----- Original Message -----

            Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:40 AM

            Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?

             

            I have several questions.

            1. Is the computer program based on FACE-OFF PRO HOCKEY ?

            2. If 1 above is YES then who can I buy it from ? Google has no outright link to the game and the outfit that sold it, .400 Software Studio, is out of buiness.

            3. How do I get the disk for the 2005-2006 season ?

             

            Best,

            Harry Conover

            Co-Inventor (along with Bob Frost) of FACE-PRO HOCKEY



            Best,

             

            Harry Conover


            From: "D. Atkinson" <bigdog@...>
            Reply-To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
            To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
            Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?
            Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 15:54:43 -0700

            Yep. What Herb said.

            Herb Garbutt wrote:

            I can cover this one for Dave....

            If you release ratings before the disk is done, inevitably some of the ratings
            change in the testing process. And then everyone with those players freaks out.
            Just better to wait until the disk is finished.

            Herb

             

             

             


          • William Underwood
            No prob! Thanks for a great product! Yes, Rick does still do the cards and board game. He even is doing few pre 1974 seasons. I still get the cards every year!
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 6, 2006
            • 0 Attachment

              No prob! Thanks for a great product!

               

              Yes, Rick does still do the cards and board game. He even is doing few pre 1974 seasons. I still get the cards every year!

               


              From: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Harry Conover
              Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 1:13 AM
              To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?

               

              Bill,

              Thanks for the positive notes on FACE-OFF PRO HOCKEY. I used to have the APBA computer version of hockey but found it strangely... boring. Maybe it was the repitive yet non-descriptive play by play ?

              In any case I'd LOVE to try out APBA once again.

              BTW, is the FACE-OFF PRO HOCKEY game board/cards version still being produced  ?

              Best,

              Harry Conover


              From: "William Underwood" <wausport@bellatlant ic.net>
              Reply-To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
              To: < hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com >
              Subject: RE: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?
              Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 12:47:21 -0400

              To Dave: As Harry will confirm, actually this is NOT true…the board version of Face Off has been around since 1974 while APBA came out in 1993 as I recall…computer Face Off started to be developed around the same time in the 90’s as APBA. And indeed a lot of the basic APBA engine mime Face Off in ways. Some people have called APBA “Face Off Lite”. It preceded APBA by NEARLY 20 YEARS!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!! I bought my first Face Off set for the 1975-5 season! And I have all of the sets since then except for a couple in the mid 80’s anyone who can add to my collection for them and 73-4 please speak up! I also am an original APBA customer and have all sets and covered the board version in the APBA Journal.

               

              To Both:  I remember I noticed a few certain similarities the minute I saw APBA! While I can’t say that APBA is a copy it definitely has been influenced by Face Off. It has defence/clear ratings that are MUCH LIKE Face Off as was the way it uses intimidation and forecheck ratings. I have little doubt that Face Off influenced the designers here. The basic D differs as it is based on the FIVE player on the ice not an isolation of the side of the ice for each player by using three player’s D ratings APBA thus is more like an APBA PK procedure. It also uses a D adjustment system that is based upon the number of forecheckers which is more like Strat than anything. The penalty ratings are categorized like APBA though not in nearly as much depth. Instead of a column the ratings are broken down minor/ major/ misconduct.  But the same spirit is there. And finally APBA has a Rock rating in computer hockey which is more or less a direct copy of the Face Off “Screen” rating. I also suspect that the computer PK ratings are based on Face Off.

               

              To Harry: GREAT TO HEAR FROM YOU! As for Face Off…400 Studios is dead but it will now be sold by Medley Games. The addy is www.medleygames. com

               

              The deal was just signed with Medley so nothing is available yet. Rick Cole is the man in charge of Face Off and he is at

               

              eloc1@cogeco. ca

               

              I have another addy if this one has probs.

               

              The disk will be out at some point in the next couple of months. Game engine updates are slated for 2007.

               

              There is also a Face Off forum at faceoff-list@ yahoogroups. com

               

              I hope this helps.

               


              From: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: hockeydisk@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Dave Bole
              Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 5:33 AM
              To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
              Subject: Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?

               

              No the APBA game is NOT based on FACE OFF....APBA has been around

              alot longer than faceoff.

              DAVE

               

              ----- Original Message -----

              Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:40 AM

              Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?

               

              I have several questions.

              1. Is the computer program based on FACE-OFF PRO HOCKEY ?

              2. If 1 above is YES then who can I buy it from ? Google has no outright link to the game and the outfit that sold it, .400 Software Studio, is out of buiness.

              3. How do I get the disk for the 2005-2006 season ?

               

              Best,

              Harry Conover

              Co-Inventor (along with Bob Frost) of FACE-PRO HOCKEY

               

              Best,

               

              Harry Conover


              From: "D. Atkinson" <bigdog@...>
              Reply-To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
              To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
              Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?
              Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 15:54:43 -0700

              Yep. What Herb said.

              Herb Garbutt wrote:

              I can cover this one for Dave....

              If you release ratings before the disk is done, inevitably some of the ratings
              change in the testing process. And then everyone with those players freaks out.
              Just better to wait until the disk is finished.

              Herb

               

               

               

               

            • Harry Conover
              Bill, Yes, I remebering talking to Rick Cole about 2 years ago and he was non-specific about the computer game version. Something tells me that he was aware of
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 6, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Bill,

                Yes, I remebering talking to Rick Cole about 2 years ago and he was
                non-specific about the computer game version. Something tells me that he was
                aware of the drama going on at
                .400 Software Studio but felt compelled not to say anything. (shrug).

                I did check out the Medley website and they aclnowledged doing both the
                board and computer verions of FACEOFF PRO HOCKEY but little more than that.

                I also agree that Mark Zarb's consitently produces fine hcoeky cards and his
                boards seem to bring more llife to the game than APBA's. I just he was
                interested in doing some of the years when Edmonton was king to be followed
                closely by the Islanders reign. Oh well !

                Best,

                Harry Conover

                ----Original Message Follows----
                From: "William Underwood" <wausport@...>
                Reply-To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
                To: <hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: RE: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?
                Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:01:32 -0400

                No prob! Thanks for a great product!



                Yes, Rick does still do the cards and board game. He even is doing few pre
                1974 seasons. I still get the cards every year!



                _____

                From: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Harry Conover
                Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 1:13 AM
                To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?



                Bill,

                Thanks for the positive notes on FACE-OFF PRO HOCKEY. I used to have the
                APBA computer version of hockey but found it strangely...boring. Maybe it
                was the repitive yet non-descriptive play by play ?

                In any case I'd LOVE to try out APBA once again.

                BTW, is the FACE-OFF PRO HOCKEY game board/cards version still being
                produced ?

                Best,

                Harry Conover


                _____


                From: "William Underwood" <wausport@...>
                Reply-To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
                To: <hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: RE: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?
                Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 12:47:21 -0400

                To Dave: As Harry will confirm, actually this is NOT true.the board version
                of Face Off has been around since 1974 while APBA came out in 1993 as I
                recall.computer Face Off started to be developed around the same time in the
                90's as APBA. And indeed a lot of the basic APBA engine mime Face Off in
                ways. Some people have called APBA "Face Off Lite". It preceded APBA by
                NEARLY 20 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I bought my first Face Off set for the
                1975-5 season! And I have all of the sets since then except for a couple in
                the mid 80's anyone who can add to my collection for them and 73-4 please
                speak up! I also am an original APBA customer and have all sets and covered
                the board version in the APBA Journal.



                To Both: I remember I noticed a few certain similarities the minute I saw
                APBA! While I can't say that APBA is a copy it definitely has been
                influenced by Face Off. It has defence/clear ratings that are MUCH LIKE Face
                Off as was the way it uses intimidation and forecheck ratings. I have little
                doubt that Face Off influenced the designers here. The basic D differs as it
                is based on the FIVE player on the ice not an isolation of the side of the
                ice for each player by using three player's D ratings APBA thus is more like
                an APBA PK procedure. It also uses a D adjustment system that is based upon
                the number of forecheckers which is more like Strat than anything. The
                penalty ratings are categorized like APBA though not in nearly as much
                depth. Instead of a column the ratings are broken down minor/ major/
                misconduct. But the same spirit is there. And finally APBA has a Rock
                rating in computer hockey which is more or less a direct copy of the Face
                Off "Screen" rating. I also suspect that the computer PK ratings are based
                on Face Off.



                To Harry: GREAT TO HEAR FROM YOU! As for Face Off.400 Studios is dead but it
                will now be sold by Medley Games. The addy is www.medleygames.
                <http://www.medleygames.com/> com



                The deal was just signed with Medley so nothing is available yet. Rick Cole
                is the man in charge of Face Off and he is at



                eloc1@cogeco. <mailto:eloc1@...> ca



                I have another addy if this one has probs.



                The disk will be out at some point in the next couple of months. Game engine
                updates are slated for 2007.



                There is also a Face Off forum at faceoff-list@
                <mailto:faceoff-list@yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com



                I hope this helps.




                _____


                From: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Dave Bole
                Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 5:33 AM
                To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?



                No the APBA game is NOT based on FACE OFF....APBA has been around

                alot longer than faceoff.

                DAVE



                ----- Original Message -----

                From: Harry <mailto:harryconover@...> Conover

                To: hockeydisk@yahoogro <mailto:hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com> ups.com

                Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:40 AM

                Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?



                I have several questions.

                1. Is the computer program based on FACE-OFF PRO HOCKEY ?

                2. If 1 above is YES then who can I buy it from ? Google has no outright
                link to the game and the outfit that sold it, .400 Software Studio, is out
                of buiness.

                3. How do I get the disk for the 2005-2006 season ?



                Best,

                Harry Conover

                Co-Inventor (along with Bob Frost) of FACE-PRO HOCKEY



                Best,



                Harry Conover


                _____


                From: "D. Atkinson" <bigdog@...>
                Reply-To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
                To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?
                Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 15:54:43 -0700

                Yep. What Herb said.

                Herb Garbutt wrote:

                I can cover this one for Dave....

                If you release ratings before the disk is done, inevitably some of the
                ratings
                change in the testing process. And then everyone with those players freaks
                out.
                Just better to wait until the disk is finished.

                Herb
              • William Underwood
                Mark may be doing something like that down the line. _____ From: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harry Conover
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 6, 2006
                • 0 Attachment

                  Mark may be doing something like that down the line…

                   


                  From: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Harry Conover
                  Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 5:20 PM
                  To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?

                   

                  Bill,

                  Yes, I remebering talking to Rick Cole about 2 years ago and he was
                  non-specific about the computer game version. Something tells me that he was
                  aware of the drama going on at
                  .400 Software Studio but felt compelled not to say anything. (shrug).

                  I did check out the Medley website and they aclnowledged doing both the
                  board and computer verions of FACEOFF PRO HOCKEY but little more than that.

                  I also agree that Mark Zarb's consitently produces fine hcoeky cards and his
                  boards seem to bring more llife to the game than APBA's. I just he was
                  interested in doing some of the years when Edmonton was king to be followed
                  closely by the Islanders reign. Oh well !

                  Best,

                  Harry Conover

                  ----Original Message Follows----
                  From: "William Underwood" <wausport@bellatlant ic.net>
                  Reply-To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
                  To: <hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com>
                  Subject: RE: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?
                  Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:01:32 -0400

                  No prob! Thanks for a great product!

                  Yes, Rick does still do the cards and board game. He even is doing few pre
                  1974 seasons. I still get the cards every year!

                  _____

                  From: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Harry Conover
                  Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 1:13 AM
                  To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
                  Subject: RE: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?

                  Bill,

                  Thanks for the positive notes on FACE-OFF PRO HOCKEY. I used to have the
                  APBA computer version of hockey but found it strangely... boring. Maybe it
                  was the repitive yet non-descriptive play by play ?

                  In any case I'd LOVE to try out APBA once again.

                  BTW, is the FACE-OFF PRO HOCKEY game board/cards version still being
                  produced ?

                  Best,

                  Harry Conover

                  _____

                  From: "William Underwood" <wausport@bellatlant ic.net>
                  Reply-To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
                  To: <hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com>
                  Subject: RE: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?
                  Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 12:47:21 -0400

                  To Dave: As Harry will confirm, actually this is NOT true.the board version
                  of Face Off has been around since 1974 while APBA came out in 1993 as I
                  recall.computer Face Off started to be developed around the same time in the
                  90's as APBA. And indeed a lot of the basic APBA engine mime Face Off in
                  ways. Some people have called APBA "Face Off Lite". It preceded APBA by
                  NEARLY 20 YEARS!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!! I bought my first Face Off set for the
                  1975-5 season! And I have all of the sets since then except for a couple in
                  the mid 80's anyone who can add to my collection for them and 73-4 please
                  speak up! I also am an original APBA customer and have all sets and covered
                  the board version in the APBA Journal.

                  To Both: I remember I noticed a few certain similarities the minute I saw
                  APBA! While I can't say that APBA is a copy it definitely has been
                  influenced by Face Off. It has defence/clear ratings that are MUCH LIKE Face
                  Off as was the way it uses intimidation and forecheck ratings. I have little
                  doubt that Face Off influenced the designers here. The basic D differs as it
                  is based on the FIVE player on the ice not an isolation of the side of the
                  ice for each player by using three player's D ratings APBA thus is more like
                  an APBA PK procedure. It also uses a D adjustment system that is based upon
                  the number of forecheckers which is more like Strat than anything. The
                  penalty ratings are categorized like APBA though not in nearly as much
                  depth. Instead of a column the ratings are broken down minor/ major/
                  misconduct. But the same spirit is there. And finally APBA has a Rock
                  rating in computer hockey which is more or less a direct copy of the Face
                  Off "Screen" rating. I also suspect that the computer PK ratings are based
                  on Face Off.

                  To Harry: GREAT TO HEAR FROM YOU! As for Face Off.400 Studios is dead but it
                  will now be sold by Medley Games. The addy is www.medleygames.
                  <http://www.medleyga mes.com/> com

                  The deal was just signed with Medley so nothing is available yet. Rick Cole
                  is the man in charge of Face Off and he is at

                  eloc1@cogeco. <mailto:eloc1@cogeco. ca> ca

                  I have another addy if this one has probs.

                  The disk will be out at some point in the next couple of months. Game engine
                  updates are slated for 2007.

                  There is also a Face Off forum at faceoff-list@
                  <mailto:faceoff-list@ yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com

                  I hope this helps.

                  _____

                  From: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Dave Bole
                  Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 5:33 AM
                  To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?

                  No the APBA game is NOT based on FACE OFF....APBA has been around

                  alot longer than faceoff.

                  DAVE

                  ----- Original Message -----

                  From: Harry <mailto:harryconover@ hotmail.com> Conover

                  To: hockeydisk@yahoogro <mailto:hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com> ups.com

                  Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:40 AM

                  Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?

                  I have several questions.

                  1. Is the computer program based on FACE-OFF PRO HOCKEY ?

                  2. If 1 above is YES then who can I buy it from ? Google has no outright
                  link to the game and the outfit that sold it, .400 Software Studio, is out
                  of buiness.

                  3. How do I get the disk for the 2005-2006 season ?

                  Best,

                  Harry Conover

                  Co-Inventor (along with Bob Frost) of FACE-PRO HOCKEY

                  Best,

                  Harry Conover

                  _____

                  From: "D. Atkinson" <bigdog@...>
                  Reply-To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
                  To: hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com
                  Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] Updates?
                  Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 15:54:43 -0700

                  Yep. What Herb said.

                  Herb Garbutt wrote:

                  I can cover this one for Dave....

                  If you release ratings before the disk is done, inevitably some of the
                  ratings
                  change in the testing process. And then everyone with those players freaks
                  out.
                  Just better to wait until the disk is finished.

                  Herb

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