Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [hockeydisk] Re: APBA and New hockey release

Expand Messages
  • Dave Bole
    that s all I needed to hear...... Tks DAVE ... From: Shawn Latreille To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:55 PM Subject: RE:
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 6, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      that's all I needed to hear......
      Tks
      DAVE
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:55 PM
      Subject: RE: [hockeydisk] Re: APBA and New hockey release

       
      I cannot say for sure.  But, I am willing to bet the numbers on the cards do not include near enough information to complete a disk that is even remotely close to the quality of this disk projects products.
       
      Hell none of the APBA produced disks were even close to the consistency of the disks produced by Dave, Herb and the rest of those involved. IMO
       
      Shawn
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave Bole
      Sent: July 6, 2006 8:54 PM
      To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] Re: APBA and New hockey release

      wau60,
      Do you know if the cards carry the same ratings as
      the computer game would ?
      DAVE

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "wau60" <wausport@bellatlant ic.net>
      To: <hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:09 AM
      Subject: [hockeydisk] Re: APBA and New hockey release

      > Just ordered it and was told the 2005-06 cards are in and ready to go!
      >
      > --- In hockeydisk@yahoogro ups.com, "Dave Bole" <PenzNr1Fan@ ...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Guys,
      >> Did you know that APBA is releaseing a card set for the
      >> 2005-06 season ?
      >> Also, their going to re-release the game in 66 format (whatever
      >> that is ) to be released this fall....
      >> go to http://apba. stores.yahoo. net/20secaset. html
      >>
      >> DAVE BOLE
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

    • wau60
      No. They are being done by two different people. the folks that do this disk are not the folks who do the card game. However, if the card ratings are being
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 7, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        No. They are being done by two different people. the folks that do
        this disk are not the folks who do the card game. However, if the
        card ratings are being done by who I think they are they will be
        GREAT! And the product needs our support! APBA has to have hockey
        fans come out and be counted if we are to expect future support from
        them for the product on both board and computer.

        --- In hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Bole" <PenzNr1Fan@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > wau60,
        > Do you know if the cards carry the same ratings as
        > the computer game would ?
        > DAVE
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "wau60" <wausport@...>
        > To: <hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:09 AM
        > Subject: [hockeydisk] Re: APBA and New hockey release
        >
        >
        > > Just ordered it and was told the 2005-06 cards are in and ready
        to go!
        > >
        > > --- In hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Bole" <PenzNr1Fan@>
        wrote:
        > >>
        > >> Guys,
        > >> Did you know that APBA is releaseing a card set for the
        > >> 2005-06 season ?
        > >> Also, their going to re-release the game in 66 format
        (whatever
        > >> that is ) to be released this fall....
        > >> go to http://apba.stores.yahoo.net/20secaset.html
        > >>
        > >> DAVE BOLE
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Dave Bole
        my understanding behind APBA dropping the software version was that the NHL licensing fee was too much for them to afford. DAVE ... From: Derek Chaiken
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 7, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          my understanding behind APBA dropping the
          software version was that the NHL licensing
          fee was too much for them to afford.
          DAVE

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Derek Chaiken" <dchaiken10@...>
          To: <hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 2:00 PM
          Subject: [hockeydisk] APBA Hockey compared to board game


          >I disagree with the comments from wau60. I'm not
          > even sure at who they are hinting at might have made
          > the board game ratings or why they would be so good
          > because nobody knows anything about them at all. This
          > makes no sense, if the board ratings were any good, we
          > wouldnt be having the disk team for the past 8 years.
          >
          > APBA Software has ignored the desires of APBA Hockey
          > fans for 6-8 years now.
          >
          > Their corporate structure fledgling and APBA Hockey
          > for PC has been put on the major backburner.
          >
          > The fact is: nobody plays the board versions anymore.
          > When I say nobody, I am comparing the amount of board
          > game players to the amount of computer game players
          > and this makes the board game players practically
          > insiginificant.
          >
          > Now, why does APBA focus on creating cards instead of
          > the software version? THat is a good question, one
          > that failed to get an answer when I had a long email
          > discourse with APBA President Marc Rinaldi.
          >
          > When I asked if APBA was looking to sell the IP rights
          > to APBA Hockey and move on (something that seems to be
          > their desire as they have not attempting to improve
          > the product in sometime), I was told they are not
          > looking to sell, because they had plans for APBA
          > Hockey, probably sometime in the next 2-3 years.
          >
          > In my opinion, that is just flat out irresponsible of
          > APBA as plenty of game developers would desire the
          > chance to recreate the software version.
          >
          > Shame on APBA, for letting this type of opportunity
          > fall to the community instead of leading the community
          > themselves.
          >
          > Now wau60, I know you are an avid board game players
          > as you indicate you intend to order the new cards for
          > the 05-06 season. Why do you think this product will
          > be good? Why would giving APBA money for a subpar
          > product make them want to contribute efforts to the
          > computer version of the game? it just doesnt add up.
          >
          > Derek Chaiken
          > Commissioner of the Great Lakes Hockey League Since
          > 1997
          > http://glhlhockey.tripod.com
          > (Currently looking for 2 new GMs, Nashville and
          > Ottawa)
          >
          > --- wau60 <wausport@...> wrote:
          >
          >> No. They are being done by two different people. the
          >> folks that do
          >> this disk are not the folks who do the card game.
          >> However, if the
          >> card ratings are being done by who I think they are
          >> they will be
          >> GREAT! And the product needs our support! APBA has
          >> to have hockey
          >> fans come out and be counted if we are to expect
          >> future support from
          >> them for the product on both board and computer.
          >>
          >> --- In hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Bole"
          >> <PenzNr1Fan@...>
          >> wrote:
          >> >
          >> > wau60,
          >> > Do you know if the cards carry the same
          >> ratings as
          >> > the computer game would ?
          >> > DAVE
          >> >
          >> > ----- Original Message -----
          >> > From: "wau60" <wausport@...>
          >> > To: <hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com>
          >> > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:09 AM
          >> > Subject: [hockeydisk] Re: APBA and New hockey
          >> release
          >> >
          >> >
          >> > > Just ordered it and was told the 2005-06 cards
          >> are in and ready
          >> to go!
          >> > >
          >> > > --- In hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Bole"
          >> <PenzNr1Fan@>
          >> wrote:
          >> > >>
          >> > >> Guys,
          >> > >> Did you know that APBA is releaseing a card
          >> set for the
          >> > >> 2005-06 season ?
          >> > >> Also, their going to re-release the game in
          >> 66 format
          >> (whatever
          >> > >> that is ) to be released this fall....
          >> > >> go to
          >> http://apba.stores.yahoo.net/20secaset.html
          >> > >>
          >> > >> DAVE BOLE
          >> > >>
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> >
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • wau60
          ... Actually I know who was contracted to do them. I was asked by that person to not divulge their identity early on in the process of negotiations, and since
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 7, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            >> I disagree with the comments from wau60. I'm not
            > even sure at who they are hinting at might have made
            > the board game ratings or why they would be so good
            >> because nobody knows anything about them at all.

            Actually I know who was contracted to do them. I was asked by that
            person to not divulge their identity early on in the process of
            negotiations, and since I have not been told that APBA wants it out
            there, I will respect that. He has done good work in the past and
            there is no reason to expect differently here.

            This
            >> makes no sense, if the board ratings were any good, we
            >> wouldnt be having the disk team for the past 8 years.

            Yes you would as the board game does not do all fo the ratings that
            are needed for a computer disk. Plus in ANY set...these disk sets
            included...you will find people who disagree with some of the
            ratings, this is endemic for any subjective or semi subjective
            rating.

            >> APBA Software has ignored the desires of APBA Hockey
            > fans for 6-8 years now.
            >
            > Their corporate structure fledgling and APBA Hockey
            >> for PC has been put on the major backburner.

            I agree 100 %!

            >> The fact is: nobody plays the board versions anymore.
            > When I say nobody, I am comparing the amount of board
            > game players to the amount of computer game players
            > and this makes the board game players practically
            >> insiginificant.

            I can't quote numbers but I'd bet that more than one computer player
            also orders the cards just to see them. I play the board game,
            enough of us do that guys like Mark Zarb have continue to put out
            sets and sell them. Just because you prefer the comupter game please
            don't dump on us and take out frustrations on those who prefer the
            board or like both. We are NOT an exntinct species. If that was true
            why would APBA, Strat or others nother putting cards out for ANY
            game?

            >> Now, why does APBA focus on creating cards instead of
            > the software version? THat is a good question, one
            > that failed to get an answer when I had a long email
            >> discourse with APBA President Marc Rinaldi.
            >

            Probably issues over contracts and the expense of support. Also ,you
            need to have people there to design, update and service the program,
            you need none of the above for the board game, this may also come
            into play. I am not being an apologist here nor am I privy to
            information but these are I think reasonable guesses.

            Quite franky I too have been frustrated by the lack of candor that
            is often taken by management. If they would just EXPLAIN themselves
            there would be fewer issues...

            >> When I asked if APBA was looking to sell the IP rights
            > to APBA Hockey and move on (something that seems to be
            > their desire as they have not attempting to improve
            > the product in sometime), I was told they are not
            > looking to sell, because they had plans for APBA
            >> Hockey, probably sometime in the next 2-3 years.
            >

            I have been told the same. And keep in mind football has taken a
            back seat too. APBA is still getting back on its feet from a VERY
            BAD decade or so and baseball is their big seller so everybody else
            has to wait. That is the sad fact.

            >> In my opinion, that is just flat out irresponsible of
            > APBA as plenty of game developers would desire the
            >> chance to recreate the software version.
            >
            > Shame on APBA, for letting this type of opportunity
            > fall to the community instead of leading the community
            >> themselves.
            >

            I agree at heart but if I were APBA I would probably do the same.
            You don't like, to give a property up. When you start selling off
            assets it makes you look fragile.

            >> Now wau60, I know you are an avid board game players
            > as you indicate you intend to order the new cards for
            > the 05-06 season. Why do you think this product will
            > be good? Why would giving APBA money for a subpar
            > product make them want to contribute efforts to the
            >> computer version of the game? it just doesnt add up.

            It does to me. As I explained above, I know the author. I have faith
            in his work.

            Plus Derik, think of it this way, APBA could ALSO interpret poor
            card sales as an apathy toward hockey. THAT may well make them put
            ALL hockey projects even further back in the line and perhaps even
            drop them altogether. Goos sales for this product says "yes there
            ARE hockey fans out there who like APBA." Remember the board product
            takes little development, just a royalty to the man who does the
            card ratings and normal coasts jsut like any fan created set. The
            computer product that you want (hell I'd love to see it too) needs a
            bigger outlay sop it will take hockey fans stading up and getting
            counted! This is a way to do it! If we don't, APBA may just say "hey
            no one even showed interest in this low cost product, we are NOT
            sinking a dime more into hockey."

            You are right to look at the product cautiously as we have been let
            down so often in recent years. APBA "ain't what it used to be",
            Seitz must be rolling in his grave over the past ten years! At the
            same time the folks there have kept it alive which was no small feat
            and are trying. And how do you kow that the person who is doing the
            cards this time will do a bad job? I have faith otherwise knowing
            who it is and I WISH that I could say but I DID promise! All I can
            say is that he is not an unfamiliar name...and I HOPE he reads this
            post and comes forward himself!

            I also want to see APBA geta STRONG message to STAY IN HOCKEY! THAT
            is the ONLY way that we will be sure of future card sets or have ANY
            chance of a future Windows computer game. Tom sayu "I'm not giving
            money to APBA" to them is a vote against hockey. Do EITHER of us
            want that?

            Rome was not built in a day! We came this close (finger is now all
            but touching thumb:)) to there NOT being a card set this year...had
            this person not talked to APBA there would NOT be one. We hear
            cryptic rumors of a 66 version to be out in a year...but only GOOD
            sales will make that happen for ceraij and only good sales of it
            will keep APBA in hopckey which nmo matter HOW you cut it isa back
            burner sport there and always will be. The bottm line is that we
            hockewy fans can't cut off our noses to spite our face...APBA will
            be watching sales. We can plead all we want with them but inteh end
            MONEY talks. And if there is little or none in hockey there will be
            little incentive for them to sink money into a computer game giving
            the anti hockey skeptics in Millersville that much more fuel when it
            comes decision time. Do we want that?
          • wau60
            ... Scout please or evaluator...there is no such word as scouter...sorry but having been a scout for over 20 years at the major junior, NHL and minor pro
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 10, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              >> 1. It is ridicoulus that the composer of the APBA
              > Hockey card set doesnt want his name released. Is it
              >> a world famous hockey scouter?

              Scout please or evaluator...there is no such word as scouter...sorry
              but having been a scout for over 20 years at the major junior, NHL
              and minor pro level, well we get sensitive!:) We are sort of like
              Paul Revere's horse, we do a big job but get no glory!

              And no he is not in the hockey business and it is thus not me. He is
              in the gaming business and has done good hockey work in the past
              including APBA stuff.

              >>I'd beg to differ. I
              > dont see how his one man disk could be even close to
              > the quality of the multiple views used of the Disk
              >> rating team.

              Sorry Derek but it is the QUALITY of views not the QUANTITY! The
              disk team does a GREAT job but do you think that it is some sort of
              secret formula that only ONE group can get right? In scouting do we
              poll the fans or the press? No, we go by a staff and other informed
              views. And I have seen small staffs with GOOD people do as well as
              bigger staffs! And often TWO staffs can BOTH be right but with
              different approaches and within a parameter.

              And there will be DIVERGENCE of opinion between ANY two groups? Who
              is right? Sometimes one is WAY off and other times it is a matter of
              view. I have YET to see ANY rastings includingthen disk groups tnhat
              I agree with 100%. Does it mean that they are wronog? NO! It just
              means that I see it differently. Now if you talk to someone with
              equal knowledge to me he might say "no I agree with them..." or
              perhpas with me. The subjective stats are just that SUBJECTIVE.

              Furthermore, the disk actually has much more room for ERROR! You say
              you are not very familiar with the board game so perhaps I should
              explain a few things. It does not rate speed and skating etc. MOST
              of the card ratings are formula based. Only defence, forechecking,
              clearing and intimidation are subjective. It is actually EASIER to
              do a board set in that respect! There is no Rock Rating. in teh end
              the computer has SEVERAL subejective ratings that the board lacks.
              The reult matrix is more or less a formula with VERY little
              subjectivity to it. Thus doing an accurate card set is MUCH easier!

              >
              >> In fact, the lack of knowing who is behind it only
              > raises further scrutiny that this set could be of high
              > quality. EA Sports on its NHL Hockey series releases
              > the names and studios who compile the ratings for
              > their games, I dont see how or why APBA comes off as a
              > super elite company and this information couldnt be
              >> divulged.
              >

              I have NO IDEA! I am just respecting a request. Now the one thing
              that I do know is that prior to my talking top my freinld and even
              heairnmg anything was up, I DID contact Marc Rinaldi at APBA and
              suggested that they do a set. And he came back with a bunch of stuff
              about APBA protecting its property and being hesitant to engage
              outsiders etc...so it probably has everything to do with that.
              Perhaps they fear that this guy may get business for coe;mting
              products I don't know. I think that they might as well be more open
              too. But they aren't...I have no idea why!


              >> 2. I apologize to the tradionalists who use the board
              > game, if you found my comments offensive in anyway. I
              >> know you dinosaurs are dying breed and I respect you-

              Don't count us dead too fast...I am only in my 40's! :) The "Joy
              Stick/Pac Man/Cartoon" generation (sorry but I HAD to get a shot
              back for being called a T-rex:)) may well be surpised to learn that
              you don't shrivel up and die at 30, we can enjoy hobbies when our
              nurses are not around and the feeding tubes are out past 40 and
              rumor has it that IF you take care of yourself you can get past 50!
              Incidentally that was all in good humor!

              But there IS a sub text, we may be around for a while...sure most of
              us use the computer for big replays-- who has the time to do
              differently--but we ALSO cherish our cards and the chances that we
              get for a good board project.

              >> I wouldve been one of you if not for being born in the
              >> early 1980s.
              >

              That is true...

              >> As I am not a board player, I am not familar with Mr.
              > Zarb or his ratings or which ratings are used in the
              > PC game that are not used in the board ratings. As a
              > principal of numbers, the more ratings should create a
              > more realistic simulation depcition, so throw away
              >> those board games and use the software version.
              >

              Well this explains a lot Derek...the board uses A LOT less
              subjective stuff than the computer...now as subjective rating are
              off than formula ratings we could also say "toss away the
              computer...we may have a case of garbage in/garbage out as there is
              NO WAY to have DEAD accurate subjective ratings and we don't really
              know the credentials of all of the raters..." Now I DON'T SAY THAT,
              I have lot of respect for this team! Buot someone who knows as
              little of it as you do the board game COULD say it.

              I think that the group does a good job and is a GREAT way to do a
              computer disk. But as the board has FAR fewer subejctive aspects and
              you really don't know what the designers sources are and how many he
              uses...how can you be so dead sure that the board is not as accurate
              or even more so than the disk? I can say this. I have seen a few
              board replays done and the stats have never been too out of whack. I
              have seen some copmputer replays generate 100 goal scorers in the
              90's! I have also seen some DARN accurate do computer replays...So
              the board can't be TOO BAD!

              As for Mr. Zarb, he has done GREAT work in fixing some flaws in the
              origial board game and produces sets of old seasons that are just
              great! He has a pretty good little cleintele of gamers. He has found
              that there is a demend by we "dinosauers" asnd that tjhere are a
              good number of 30 plus year old gamers who like the dice and cards
              as much if not more than the cathode ray tube. Once more the fact
              that Strat and APBA sell their games in toy stores in simplified
              forms shows that still the dice and board are of use to bring a new
              generation of gamers into the realm.

              So maybe if we are "dinosauers" there are still hatchlings
              and "Jurasic Park" may have a pretty good population!

              >> 3. APBA's appearance as fragile. It is not a secret.
              > THe cat is out of the bag. Re-coop your losses and
              > move on, dont be big babies. APBA isnt a household
              > name, in fact it means nothing to 99% of the
              >> population.
              >

              You are entitled to your opinion just as they are...the problem
              being that they own the games...they are a business and will make
              decisions on that basis! And they are wrong seomtimes, hell they
              were wrong continuously for about 10 years! But it is their game to
              do what they want with, that much is beyond our control.

              >> 4. There are far better ways for APBA to gauge the
              > interest in Hockey rather than sinking $60+ (shipping)
              >> into a hockey card set I'd never use or look at.

              First of all the set goes for 32 US.

              And if you don't want it and are not into the board game NO ONE says
              that you have to or should order it! But then again others may see
              it differently for themselves. Why should you trash the concept for
              those of us who are into the board game or may want the cards as
              well as a disk? Why does that offend you so? Why spoil others fun
              just because APBA is not serving you? Hwo would you like it if the
              sahoe was on the other foot and I said "don't order the computer
              product...it has to be crap and amateruish because APBA won't do
              cards." I wouldn't do that! I'd say "GREAT, they have not forgotten
              hockey..."

              Incidentalyl I like BOTH versions, board and computer. Compouter
              alows for replays but the board is great for a nice slow savoring of
              a replay. It also allows for tinkerinug. Say I want to use the old
              say the old pre 1956 penalty system where the entire 2 minute minor
              wa served, just for the feel of it? I can on the board...I could
              have doen shoot outs three years ago if I wanted to! Both verions
              are GREAT! And it is GREAT to see ANYONE dong ANY sort of decent
              quality hockey game to promote our great game!

              The bottom line is DON'T ORDER It if you don't like the board but
              DON'T try to kill the product for those who do please...Have that
              mich respect for fellow gamers. Killing APBA board hockey will do
              NOTHING to bring your POC version back...

              >>HOW
              > ABOUT any type of acknowledgment on their website that
              > APBA Hockey exists? Or setting up their own mailing
              > list of those who would be interested in APBA hockey
              >> software programs?

              I AGREE 100-%!!!!!!!!!!11

              >> As a law student studying the
              > aspects of video game law, I know PC developement of a
              > text based game is not high strain on financial
              >> resources.

              No it is not. But as I recall the compeuter game is not theirs
              originally and they may well have contractual issues with the
              original designer both in terms of royalties and property rights. In
              contrast the board game is their own creation by the APBA 66 style.
              They are NOT exact clones! Few bcomputer versioins of board game are
              and in this case APBA made the formula for the board into their own
              11-66 style.

              Support for a PC game can be an added expense.

              And as I said before I don't know the rationale of APBA and can only
              offer a few ideas as to why they feel as they do. the onmylthing
              that they have ever said to me that was even a little bit
              enlightened is that they want to protect their product lines...

              >> APBA's corporate stubborness is ridicoulus and its
              > time the community round up and create our own
              > simulator on the APBA engine if we EVER want to have
              >> shooutouts in our simulation leagues.
              >

              I won't argue with that! And I'll buy it if you do, you guys would
              probably do a good job...I think that decent quality products are
              worth the support!

              In that vein please have the same respect for another good product,
              APBA hockey cards. You don't ahve to order them but why try to taslk
              other people out of it so that board gamers are in the same boat as
              you in a few yearys and NEITHER of us have an ABBA produced product.

              We get the message you hate APBA's way of doing business. Well until
              this past week I have been less than happy with them too! But they
              own the games and don't seem to be relinquishing the rights. THAT is
              reality! So why not encourage those of us who appreciate a board set
              to support it? Why try to trash our end of the hobby for us and once
              more possibly shoot yourself inthe foot by getting APBA to just
              say "no more hockey but we'll keep the formula for a rainy day"
              which is just what they HAVE done for the past few years?

              We are HAPPY to have a card set you are unhappy at not having a PC
              update...I would like to see one too! But raining on someone elses
              parade is not good for ANYONE in the end.


              ___________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > http://mail.yahoo.com
              >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.