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Re: [hockeydisk] Re: Goaltenders Ratings

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  • Frank Marier
    Go to Commissioner s assistant to APHCOMM, highlite the injured player s name in the upper part of your screen, single right click to go to edit, single right
    Message 1 of 14 , May 20, 2003
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      Go to Commissioner's assistant to APHCOMM, highlite the injured player's
      name in the upper part of your screen,
      single right click to go to edit, single right click edit, then go to the
      right part of the screen you'll get and go to Games Injured.
      Whatever number is in that box, change it to 0.

      That would wipe out the injury, and make that player eligible to play.

      Frank
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <zteamusa@...>
      To: <hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 7:02 PM
      Subject: RE: [hockeydisk] Re: Goaltenders Ratings


      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > HI...HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO REMOVE THE "I" (INJURY) NEXT TO A PLAYER'S NAME
      > SO THAT THE PLAYER CAN RESUME PLAYING AGAIN. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!
      > "DAVE"
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > "Shawn Latreille" <shalatreille@...> wrote:
      >
      > >Bill,
      > >
      > >I have disliked the abuse of the save% glitch as I call it for some time.
      > >Thanks for the info, I intend to try to implement this type of thing in
      my
      > >league this year.
      > >
      > >Shawn
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: corfieldb@... [mailto:corfieldb@...]
      > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 4:19 PM
      > > To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [hockeydisk] Re: Goaltenders Ratings
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi-
      > >
      > > We've implemented a new set of rules for the goaltenders in the
      > >CCHL. Two major components...
      > >
      > > 1) 150% Rule for all goalies...Our aim was to prevent some
      > >netminders who are clearly back ups, such as Schwab, for example from
      being
      > >"APBA studs" because they have a high save %...All goalies may play up to
      > >150% of their actual NHL games played...It isn't perfect, but this
      doesn't
      > >hurt most clear-cut #1 goalies...and it limits the back-ups from being
      > >ridden all year long...Schwab played in something like 17 NHL
      > >games...ok...he can play in 25-26 CCHL games...then he's done, period...
      > >
      > > 2) Also, all goalies must earn playoff appearances per round...If
      > >they play in 50-80 CCHL games...they earn 7 games per round...
      > > If they play <16, they don't earn any...
      > > So on and so forth...again, it finally rewards teams that really
      > >own NHL starters and really hurts teams that call Schwab their number 1
      guy
      > >all year...
      > >
      > > I knew it was time to work something else out when Rob Tallas and
      > >then Dave Aebischer led their teams to championships in consecutive
      years.
      > >The league that that happened in is a good league, but Rob Tallas
      shouldn't
      > >be leading anyone anywhere at all, IMO...
      > >
      > > Comments?
      > >
      > > Bill Corfield
      > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > > ADVERTISEMENT
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      > >
      >
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    • Andrew Martin
      Why not just set every player s maximum to real NHL GP? Then you wouldn t have any issues, and it would be much easier to keep track of. Unless you have a
      Message 2 of 14 , May 20, 2003
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        Why not just set every player's maximum to real NHL GP? Then you wouldn't have
        any issues, and it would be much easier to keep track of. Unless you have a
        league with like 30 teams, there should be plenty of goaltending to go around.
        If necessary, you just limit each team to 3 goalies.

        Andrew



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Jud and Jill Burkett" <jnjburkett@...>
        To: <hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 2:52 PM
        Subject: [hockeydisk] Re: Goaltenders Ratings


        > I like your solution, if only our league had had something like that
        > in place when Steve Valiquette led his team to the cup.
        >
        > Jud
        >
        >
        >
        > >Hi-
        > >
        > > We've implemented a new set of rules for the goaltenders in
        > >the CCHL. Two major components...
        > >
        > > 1) 150% Rule for all goalies...Our aim was to prevent some
        > >netminders who are clearly back ups, such as Schwab, for example
        > >from being "APBA studs" because they have a high save %...All
        > >goalies may play up to 150% of their actual NHL games played...It
        > >isn't perfect, but this doesn't hurt most clear-cut #1 goalies...and
        > >it limits the back-ups from being ridden all year long...Schwab
        > >played in something like 17 NHL games...ok...he can play in 25-26
        > >CCHL games...then he's done, period...
        > >
        > > 2) Also, all goalies must earn playoff appearances per
        > >round...If they play in 50-80 CCHL games...they earn 7 games per
        > >round...
        > > If they play <16, they don't earn any...
        > > So on and so forth...again, it finally rewards teams that
        > >really own NHL starters and really hurts teams that call Schwab
        > >their number 1 guy all year...
        > >
        > > I knew it was time to work something else out when Rob Tallas
        > >and then Dave Aebischer led their teams to championships in
        > >consecutive years. The league that that happened in is a good
        > >league, but Rob Tallas shouldn't be leading anyone anywhere at all,
        > >IMO...
        > >
        > > Comments?
        > >
        > >Bill Corfield
        > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > >ADVERTISEMENT
        >
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        > >
        > >
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        >
        >
        > --
        > ____________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Jud and Jill Burkett
        > 57 N. Crest Line Drive
        > St. George, Utah 84790
        > (435)652-0719
        > jnjburkett@...
        > http://www.judburkett.com
        > ____________________________________________________________________
      • photosbyalex
        This point is very good. Why are just goaltenders under such observation? I have been in leagues where Dino Ciccarelli or Pavel Bure scored something like 17
        Message 3 of 14 , May 20, 2003
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          This point is very good.

          Why are just goaltenders under such observation?

          I have been in leagues where Dino Ciccarelli or Pavel Bure scored something like 17 NHL points in under 15 NHL games (not exact numbers but very close from memory).  In APBA leagues they unbalanced scoring for their teams to almost one goal a game difference.    In current APBA leagues players like Yzerman, Lemieux and Tkachuk always seem to play more games and just as an important role on the game as does a goalie.

          Yes, goalies with a high save percentage can unbalance things.  There are almost always a handful of to be picked each year.  Limiting the number of games also hurts established leagues where there has been no regulation in this manner.  There are only so many good goalies to go around.  I can see this rule being fair and valid if it is used from starting from scratch....but existing APBA teams have built strategies around the current system.

          Alex
           

          Andrew Martin wrote:

          Why not just set every player's maximum to real NHL GP? Then you wouldn't have
          any issues, and it would be much easier to keep track of. Unless you have a
          league with like 30 teams, there should be plenty of goaltending to go around.
          If necessary, you just limit each team to 3 goalies.

          Andrew

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Jud and Jill Burkett" <jnjburkett@...>
          To: <hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 2:52 PM
          Subject: [hockeydisk] Re: Goaltenders Ratings

          > I like your solution, if only our league had had something like that
          > in place when Steve Valiquette led his team to the cup.
          >
          > Jud
          >
          >
          >
          > >Hi-
          > >
          > >        We've implemented a new set of rules for the goaltenders in
          > >the CCHL. Two major components...
          > >
          > >        1) 150% Rule for all goalies...Our aim was to prevent some
          > >netminders who are clearly back ups, such as Schwab, for example
          > >from being "APBA studs" because they have a high save %...All
          > >goalies may play up to 150% of their actual NHL games played...It
          > >isn't perfect, but this doesn't hurt most clear-cut #1 goalies...and
          > >it limits the back-ups from being ridden all year long...Schwab
          > >played in something like 17 NHL games...ok...he can play in 25-26
          > >CCHL games...then he's done, period...
          > >
          > >        2) Also, all goalies must earn playoff appearances per
          > >round...If they play in 50-80 CCHL games...they earn 7 games per
          > >round...
          > >        If they play <16, they don't earn any...
          > >        So on and so forth...again, it finally rewards teams that
          > >really own NHL starters and really hurts teams that call Schwab
          > >their number 1 guy all year...
          > >
          > >        I knew it was time to work something else out when Rob Tallas
          > >and then Dave Aebischer led their teams to championships in
          > >consecutive years. The league that that happened in is a good
          > >league, but Rob Tallas shouldn't be leading anyone anywhere at all,
          > >IMO...
          > >
          > >        Comments?
          > >
          > >Bill Corfield
          > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > >ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          ><http://rd.yahoo.com/M=244522.3313099.4604523.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705068332:
          HM/A=1588191/R=0/*http://ashnin.com/clk/muryutaitakenattogyo?YH=%LINEID%&yhad=15
          88191>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
          > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          > --
          > ____________________________________________________________________
          >
          > Jud and Jill Burkett
          > 57 N. Crest Line Drive
          > St. George, Utah 84790
          > (435)652-0719
          > jnjburkett@...
          > http://www.judburkett.com
          > ____________________________________________________________________

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        • corfieldb@aol.com
          Guys- Our league, the CCHL is heading into its 2nd season...Strategies are certainly formed but again, we feel strongly that although not a perfect solution,
          Message 4 of 14 , May 21, 2003
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            Guys-

                   Our league, the CCHL is heading into its 2nd season...Strategies are certainly formed but again, we feel strongly that although not a perfect solution, this is a healthier direction to go than what we observed during our first season. Also, most of us have played in other APBA leagues...and have seen unrealistic goaltenders have major success...

                   The biggest difference between goalies and skaters is how the sim itself distributes injuries. Goalies most often get hurt in 4 day increments...so, usually a team will only need to cover 2 games during that time.

                   The sim is still a "game" and from my observation, I don't see as much as a problem with skater injuries. The randomness that the sim distributes injuries to skaters leaves one always guessing, "...Hmmm, is THIS the game Mario gets hurts for 35 days???"

                   There are leagues that run strict player usage that I'm sure avoid this problem totally. With the 150% rule...we felt it still allowed for strategy and planning...we're looking forward to seeing how this approach pans out...

            Bill Corfield
          • Herb Garbutt
            Our league (NNHL) increases goalie injuries with each subsequent injury. First injury 4 days, second--7, then 10, 25, 40. Both Turco and Aebischer went out for
            Message 5 of 14 , May 21, 2003
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              Our league (NNHL) increases goalie injuries with each subsequent injury. First injury 4 days, second--7, then 10, 25, 40. Both Turco and Aebischer went out for the season either late in the year or in the playoffs because of 40-day injuries. It's one way to help in that regard.

              Herb

              corfieldb@... wrote:

               Guys-

                     Our league, the CCHL is heading into its 2nd season...Strategies are certainly formed but again, we feel strongly that although not a perfect solution, this is a healthier direction to go than what we observed during our first season. Also, most of us have played in other APBA leagues...and have seen unrealistic goaltenders have major success...

                     The biggest difference between goalies and skaters is how the sim itself distributes injuries. Goalies most often get hurt in 4 day increments...so, usually a team will only need to cover 2 games during that time.

                     The sim is still a "game" and from my observation, I don't see as much as a problem with skater injuries. The randomness that the sim distributes injuries to skaters leaves one always guessing, "...Hmmm, is THIS the game Mario gets hurts for 35 days???"

                     There are leagues that run strict player usage that I'm sure avoid this problem totally. With the 150% rule...we felt it still allowed for strategy and planning...we're looking forward to seeing how this approach pans out...

              Bill Corfield

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

            • photosbyalex
              What about contracts then? Why should I have to pay a player full salary when you limit his games? Yes, some goaltenders with high save % have produced some
              Message 6 of 14 , May 21, 2003
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                What about contracts then?

                Why should I have to pay a player full salary when you limit his games?

                Yes, some goaltenders with high save % have produced some spectacular results.  Patrick Roy has never been a good APBA goalie until this year.  Hasek was always great for that purpose.  What is Belfour going to do next year?

                Yes... But you seem to have missed my point regarding players like Pavel Bure a few years ago.  Palffy this year.... Basic formula... > 18% shooting and then used on the first line...

                If you are going to impose a rule then I think you should have to do it equally to all players.   This would cause a paperwork nightmare for some leagues.... What about a 150% rule on 5 key players per team?   If the GM of that team doesn't do it fairly then let the commisioner pick 5 guys who have this rule.

                How is it such a differnce between GAA and save % and a guy playing 55-65 APBA games popping in 60 goals and 80 points when he only played 11 NHL games (current rules are 12.... but you get my point)?
                 
                 

                corfieldb@... wrote:

                 Guys-

                       Our league, the CCHL is heading into its 2nd season...Strategies are certainly formed but again, we feel strongly that although not a perfect solution, this is a healthier direction to go than what we observed during our first season. Also, most of us have played in other APBA leagues...and have seen unrealistic goaltenders have major success...

                       The biggest difference between goalies and skaters is how the sim itself distributes injuries. Goalies most often get hurt in 4 day increments...so, usually a team will only need to cover 2 games during that time.

                       The sim is still a "game" and from my observation, I don't see as much as a problem with skater injuries. The randomness that the sim distributes injuries to skaters leaves one always guessing, "...Hmmm, is THIS the game Mario gets hurts for 35 days???"

                       There are leagues that run strict player usage that I'm sure avoid this problem totally. With the 150% rule...we felt it still allowed for strategy and planning...we're looking forward to seeing how this approach pans out...

                Bill Corfield

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

              • corfieldb@aol.com
                Hmmm... Yes, we run full contracts...if you want a player on your team, he s gotta have a contract...If a GM feels that dues to the 150% rule that someone
                Message 7 of 14 , May 21, 2003
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                  Hmmm...

                        
                         Yes, we run full contracts...if you want a player on your team, he's gotta have a contract...If a GM feels that dues to the 150% rule that someone isn't worth acquiring, then he's free to go after someone else...In no case do we ever prevent an APBA player from playing in at least the same number of actual NHL games.

                         Belfour should be very strong in the new disk, however, he'll get his great ratings by earning them...

                         In any league I've ever been in...over the last 3-4 years...Roy has always seemed  to be one of the elite goalies in the game, just my opinion...

                         Again, this is a game...so there's going to be a few loose ends for sure...The injuries related to skaters haven't appeared to be a significant problem...

                         I repeat, when netminders like Rob Tallas, Steve Valiquette and Dave Aebischer take their teams to the Cup, something seems very wrong...

                         This is one league's attempt to reel in goaltender injuries, that's all...

                     

                  Bill Corfield
                • paul canosa
                  I would also add, that the contracts paid to players such as rob tallas, and aebischer are marginal money, considering what true NHL starters earn. Compare if
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 21, 2003
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                    I would also add, that the contracts paid to players
                    such as rob tallas, and aebischer are marginal money,
                    considering what true NHL starters earn.

                    Compare if you will
                    Chris Osgood a cup winner at $4,000,000, 89.2% 46
                    games played
                    and
                    Aebischer $500,000, 91.6% and 22 games played.


                    I don't think "paying" $500,000 qualifies as a
                    hardship, and the 22 games played basically means he
                    sits on the bench.

                    In the CCHL, aebischer plays a few games, but cannot
                    take his bionic save % to the cup finals. It works for
                    us and we prefer it that the stats mimic actual NHL
                    performance. Its up to individual league operators how
                    they want to run their own leagues. Bill mearly
                    pointed out what works for us.

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                  • Jeff Kraus
                    Herb, the problem with that approach is that I heard too many tales about guys who played 15 or 20 games not getting injured at all during the season. That s
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 22, 2003
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                      Herb, the problem with that approach is that I heard too many tales about guys who played 15 or 20 games not getting injured at all during the season.  That's why OTHL has always stuck to NHL games played (all players, not just goalies) with limits on play-off time similar to what Bill described.  Even that's a little generous, because a back-up's games played is padded with several mop-up assignments (Stephen Valiquette started only 3 games that season).

                      I said at the time we released the "Valiquette" disk that commissioners are nuts if they don't clamp down on freak usage.  If you leave stuff to chance, you risk having Brian Bellows score 88 goals and Valiquette win 60 games.

                      Related note:  I heard that the APBA board game includes cards in last season's set for Forsberg & Koivu based on their playoff stats, for "added realism".  No comment.

                      Jeff


                      From: Herb Garbutt
                      Reply-To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
                      To: hockeydisk@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [hockeydisk] Re: Goaltenders Ratings
                      Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 08:52:18 -0400
                      Our league (NNHL) increases goalie injuries with each subsequent injury.
                      First injury 4 days, second--7, then 10, 25, 40. Both Turco and
                      Aebischer went out for the season either late in the year or in the
                      playoffs because of 40-day injuries. It's one way to help in that
                      regard.
                      Herb
                      corfieldb@... wrote:
                      > Guys-
                      >
                      > Our league, the CCHL is heading into its 2nd
                      > season...Strategies are certainly formed but again, we feel strongly
                      > that although not a perfect solution, this is a healthier direction to
                      > go than what we observed during our first season. Also, most of us
                      > have played in other APBA leagues...and have seen unrealistic
                      > goaltenders have major success...
                      >
                      > The biggest difference between goalies and skaters is how the
                      > sim itself distributes injuries. Goalies most often get hurt in 4 day
                      > increments...so, usually a team will only need to cover 2 games during
                      > that time.
                      >
                      > The sim is still a "game" and from my observation, I don't see
                      > as much as a problem with skater injuries. The randomness that the sim
                      > distributes injuries to skaters leaves one always guessing, "...Hmmm,
                      > is THIS the game Mario gets hurts for 35 days???"
                      >
                      > There are leagues that run strict player usage that I'm sure
                      > avoid this problem totally. With the 150% rule...we felt it still
                      > allowed for strategy and planning...we're looking forward to seeing
                      > how this approach pans out...
                      >
                      > Bill Corfield
                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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