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[hockeydisk] two questions

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  • Johns, Shane
    I m an avid APBA manager - the league I m in will be using The Disk, and since my team was almost exclusively built to win based on the stats of the
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 24, 1999
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      two questions

      I'm an avid APBA manager - the league I'm in will be using The Disk, and since my team was almost exclusively built to win based on the stats of the just-concluded NHL season, I've been particularly interested in the project - beyond a general love of hockey. Anyway, I've read the FAQ and am impressed and intrigued and I have one technical question and one general question:

      1) It is noted that giveaways/takeaways are going to affect ratings. A look at the NHL's stats shows that players who are very good with the puck and possess it a lot also happen to rack up a lot of giveaways - presumably because they have the puck so much. It strikes me that this could lead to some outstanding puck controllers not faring well in the simulation. Is this the case?

      2) Has a serious league with all-time NHL players ever been considered? I know there is one person who is running a historical league, but I think he's doing all his own ratings, which is both a huge job and would be prone to the whims of personal bias. Any chance of an all-time disk or do you know of one?


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    • D. A. Atkinson
      Johns, Shane wrote: I m an avid APBA manager - the league I m in will be using The Disk, and since my team was almost exclusively built to win based on the
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 24, 1999
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        "Johns, Shane" wrote:
        I'm an avid APBA manager - the league I'm in will be using The Disk, and since my team was almost exclusively built to win based on the stats of the just-concluded NHL season, I've been particularly interested in the project - beyond a general love of hockey. Anyway, I've read the FAQ and am impressed and intrigued and I have one technical question and one general question:

        1) It is noted that giveaways/takeaways are going to affect ratings. A look at the NHL's stats shows that players who are very good with the puck and possess it a lot also happen to rack up a lot of giveaways - presumably because they have the puck so much. It strikes me that this could lead to some outstanding puck controllers not faring well in the simulation. Is this the case?
         

        We have taken this into account. This is one of the problems with using only stats. Stats
        can sometimes be misleading if not taken in correct context. In any case, we typically
        used stats in a per minute played basis to eliminate bias towards players that get alot
        of minutes. And not just per minute comparisions, but per shorthanded minute, power play
        minute, and  even strength minute. There is still alot of subjective opinion in the
        final ratings....but judicious use of the stats help narrow the variance on those opinions quite
        significantly.

                          Dave
         
         
         
         

         
        2) Has a serious league with all-time NHL players ever been considered? I know there is one person who is running a historical league, but I think he's doing all his own ratings, which is both a huge job and would be prone to the whims of personal bias. Any chance of an all-time disk or do you know of one?
         

         
         


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      • Steve Coulombe
        Hi Shane (and others!), Here s the answers : 1) Giveaways and takeaways were used by the ratings reviewers to determine the subjective ratins (speed, skate,
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 24, 1999
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          Hi Shane (and others!),

          Here's the answers :

          1) Giveaways and takeaways were used by the ratings reviewers to determine the
          subjective ratins (speed, skate, pass, 4chk, phy, int, ...) along with the
          full
          NHL stats pack. Giveaways and takeaways were mainly taken into consideration
          for the defense, passing and forecheck ratings, but were not the only piece of
          information to determine these stats. Many other factors were taken into
          consideration for these, such as +/- for defense, typical usage of players (is
          he playing night after night against teams top lines?), shorthanded icetime,
          hits, assists, the team he plays for, personal opinion of the player, articles
          about the player, ... Takeaways and giveaways were just a factor amongst many
          others. Also, these have to be taken with a grain of salt since these are kept
          by local statistician, so there could be 27 interpretation about a
          giveaways or
          a takeaways.

          2) I don't think it is our role to publish such a disk. All were doing is keep
          APBA leagues alive by producing a disk every year.

          Steve
          on behalf of the APBA 1999 disk project team

          At 11:19 AM 6/24/99 -0400, you wrote:

          >
          > I'm an avid APBA manager - the league I'm in will be using The Disk, and
          > since my team was almost exclusively built to win based on the stats of the
          > just-concluded NHL season, I've been particularly interested in the
          project -
          > beyond a general love of hockey. Anyway, I've read the FAQ and am impressed
          > and intrigued and I have one technical question and one general question:
          >
          > 1) It is noted that giveaways/takeaways are going to affect ratings. A look
          > at the NHL's stats shows that players who are very good with the puck and
          > possess it a lot also happen to rack up a lot of giveaways - presumably
          > because they have the puck so much. It strikes me that this could lead to
          > some outstanding puck controllers not faring well in the simulation. Is this
          > the case?
          >
          > 2) Has a serious league with all-time NHL players ever been considered? I
          > know there is one person who is running a historical league, but I think
          he's
          > doing all his own ratings, which is both a huge job and would be prone to
          the
          > whims of personal bias. Any chance of an all-time disk or do you know of
          one?
          >
          > ----------
          > <http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/375>
          > Click Here!
          >
          > eGroups.com home:
          > <http://www.egroups.com/group/hockeydisk>http://www.egroups.com/group/hock
          > eydisk
          > <http://www.egroups.com/>www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications



          -----------------------
          Steve Coulombe
          coulombe@...

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        • D. A. Atkinson
          Johns, Shane wrote: 2) Has a serious league with all-time NHL players ever been considered? I know there is one person who is running a historical league,
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 25, 1999
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            "Johns, Shane" wrote:
            2) Has a serious league with all-time NHL players ever been considered? I know there is one person who is running a historical league, but I think he's doing all his own ratings, which is both a huge job and would be prone to the whims of personal bias. Any chance of an all-time disk or do you know of one?
             
            I forgot to answer the second question.
            I don't see us doing an all time disk, or any older past seasons, since the NHL doesn't have
            the in depth stats for those as it does for the past two seasons. There is too much guesswork
            involved in doing older seasons.
            I don't know of any all-time leagues.

                     Dave
             
             


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          • Kraus, Jeff
            The problem with doing a disk of a past season, especially a very old season like the 50s or 60s, is the availability of information. Your stats are pretty
            Message 5 of 5 , Jun 25, 1999
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              The problem with doing a disk of a past season, especially a very old season
              like the 50s or 60s, is the availability of information. Your stats are
              pretty much limited to G, A, GP and PIM. Maybe +/- for later seasons. You
              won't find much biographical information about the non-stars and the role
              players unless you have access to team yearbooks and things like that. I'm
              always a little skeptical about a disk based on such a season, especially if
              it's put together by someone who was born after that season <g>, but I
              generally look the other way because it's better than nothing.

              Putting together a disk on a season that just ended is enough work. Must
              take forever to do the proper research to put one together for an old time
              season!

              Jeff

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